Right to Privacy?

[Bala]

Privacy is dead and buried!

Ever wonder what happens to all that information your grocery store collects when they swipe your club card at the register? Politicians can now take advantage of this data thanks to a vast information bank profiling individual Americans.

Credit-card data, social-security information, census facts, magazine-subscription lists, and club card records are all fair game for political campaigns now, thanks to a practice known as "microtargeting."

Read how Arnold Schwarzenegger's campaign used consumer data:
http://tinyurl.com/v2lcu



The "Tokyo Ubiquitous Network Project," running from now until March 10, will use radio-frequency identification tags, {RFID (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RFID)} infrared, and wireless transmitters to identify Japanese shoppers and keep track of their movements on the streets of Tokyo. The purpose? To send them ads and coupons based on their habits. http://tinyurl.com/27yh9c You bet it's coming to America.





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“Relying on the government to protect your privacy is like asking a peeping tom to install your window blinds.” ~ John Perry Barlow

"Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men.” ~ Ayn Rand

[singunner]

"Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men.” ~ Ayn Rand
I'm a fan of Rand, but wouldn't this civilize us out of being? Privacy is really a silly concept. If you do something out in the open where people can see it, why would you expect privacy about it? If you do something in the privacy of your own house with your blinds open, why would you expect privacy? I might agree that things that can't be seen with the naked eye (infrared for instance) are a little invasive feeling, but they're not. You exist. Others exist. Interaction happens. Deal with it, but don't try to dictate to me which direction I point my eyes.

[Suff]

I'm a fan of Rand, but wouldn't this civilize us out of being? Privacy is really a silly concept. If you do something out in the open where people can see it, why would you expect privacy about it? If you do something in the privacy of your own house with your blinds open, why would you expect privacy? I might agree that things that can't be seen with the naked eye (infrared for instance) are a little invasive feeling, but they're not. You exist. Others exist. Interaction happens. Deal with it, but don't try to dictate to me which direction I point my eyes.

Where'd you get peeping tom from that?

Corporate invasion of privacy is an issue.

Kicking around a GM I asked the salesperson about the OnStar system. Even if I did'nt get it...GM keeps it on in the event I sell the car to an owner that wants it.

It tracks everywhere I go, what speeds I travel,...etc...etc...

Go to Progressive Insurance WWW site, and see a little clause. They require you waive your right to withhold your auto tracking data in the investigation of an accident.

In the event your in an accident, and.....

You were speeding 3 minutes before the accident, or had just made an illegal uturn about 10 miles back, or if you just left a strip joint....

They'll know, and they'll use it against you. Bet on that.



-------------------Me and Progressive

I pay you, and if I have an accident, you pay me.


That's the extent of the relationship I want with an insurer.

[Bala]

....Privacy is really a silly concept...... There is this odd notation held by many -– I do nothing wrong so I have nothing to hide.

People who are responsible have everything to hide. Think otherwise? Just PM me your SS# and DOB so I can open credit cards in your name. If privacy is outlawed, only outlaws will have privacy.

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Recent Data Breaches in Canada and the US;
On January 17, the retailer that operates T. J. Maxx and Marshall's stores revealed that tens of millions of credit and debit cards might have been compromised by a security breach of its computer systems. According to TJX's press release, the breach involved customers' credit card, debit card, check, and merchandise return information collected at its U.S., Canadian and Puerto Rican stores, and may involve customers of its stores in the U.K. and Ireland. {Retail security breach may be biggest in U.S...... (http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/01/19/business/data.php)}

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Would you ever pay for groceries with a fingerprint? Some executives say that such technology, known as biometrics, will become more commonplace in the retail industry this year. Biometrics offers advantages over loyalty cards, says one grocery exec, because a fingerprint definitively ID's people and prevents them from swapping cards. http://tinyurl.com/yophyc

















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“We must protect our citizens' privacy -- the bulwark of personal liberty, the safeguard of individual creativity.” ~ Bill Clinton

“He is his own best friend, and takes delight in privacy whereas the man of no virtue or ability is his own worst enemy and is afraid of solitude” ~ Aristotle

[Bala]

.....invasion of privacy is an issue...... Why is it necessary for American citizenry to subjugate our privacy....
While our govt. thrives on privacy???

[singunner]

If privacy is outlawed, only outlaws will have privacy.



“He is his own best friend, and takes delight in privacy whereas the man of no virtue or ability is his own worst enemy and is afraid of solitude” ~ Aristotle
So you do understand. :) At the point we're at, the best and fastest thing to do is push people further and harder. When everyone is an outlaw, change is close at hand.

As for the quote, it doesn't sound that great to me. It sounds more like it applies to people leeching off their betters, ignoring that it's possible to get a couple geniuses together and get results greater than their individual abilities would suggest. Feel free to define Aristotle's use of "virtue" as well, for I do not recognize(validate) its meaning.

[singunner]

Why is it necessary for American citizenry to subjugate our privacy....
While our govt. thrives on privacy???
Our government is thriving? I was under the impression it was rotting from the inside out. Mind you, I mean the government, not the economy or any supposed measure of the government.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Dictatorships have secret police for political reasons; we have little plastic cards so we can be talked into buying the lasted innovatins Americans can afford. Your choice. I know which my choice is!

[Bala]

Our government is thriving? From Dictionary.com
Thrive >> "To grow vigorously; flourish"

Every year the dome of monkeys we call congress publishes “The national registry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Record).” (and here (http://www.gpoaccess.gov/fr/index.html)) This volumes tome expands each and every year. Under the current administration, govt. and all it's numerous agencies have grown like an unstoppable fungus.

At no time in history {not even during the great depression} has the sheer size of govt. and budgets thrived compared to GDP. Friedrich Engels would be very proud of GW.






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A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you are talking big money. ~ Everett M. Dirksen

"Endless money forms the sinews of war." ~ Cicero

[Bala]

....little plastic cards so we can be talked into buying the lasted.... Buying slavery?
Card issuers target teens for latest plastic attacks (http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/cc/20000508.asp)

[singunner]

I prefer to think of government expanding more along the lines of a balloon that you're inflating too rapidly.

[DJofSD]

Why is it necessary for American citizenry to subjugate our privacy....
While our govt. thrives on privacy???

You don't have a need to know.

[John]

-------------------Me and Progressive

I pay you, and if I have an accident, you pay me.


That's the extent of the relationship I want with an insurer.


I have to agree with SUFF on this one.

After 25 years of paying a home owner's policy .[ Never made a claim ]Today I got in the mail a letter telling me that I have to contact an Agency that will ask me questions pertaining to my home and the premises.

After 25 years ,why should this be an issue? ...What happen to citizens' privacy

:) :) :)

[Secretariat]

If you've ever had your identity stolen, and your credit card inflated, you understand the need for privacy. Changes your mind real fast from theory to practicality.

[OTM Al]

Funny thing we all desire the right to privacy, but no where in our highest laws is that right guaranteed. The word used in the Bill of Rights is "secure" in our homes, papers etc. As we know security has a very wide interpretations these days.....

[wonatthewire1]

To quote Sec

"If you've ever had your identity stolen, and your credit card inflated, you understand the need for privacy. Changes your mind real fast from theory to practicality."

and what does that have to do with privacy?

As recently as this week, my Amex information was "stolen" and used by someone in Florida at a Citgo station for two transactions totaling just under $150.00 (I was at work in NJ at the time). So if you "live" in this world, you are going to be exposing your information that is just the way it is...and having someone "swipe" your CC doesn't have anything to do with privacy just theft.

Interesting aside on the Amex issue: the customer service rep at Amex was able to tell that the transactions in Florida were swiped: so someone recreated my card...the only two places where I frequented where that would've happened was at a Hess gas station here in town or at Macaroni Grill...hey that waiter did "look" a bit shady...!

[Secretariat]

So if you "live" in this world, you are going to be exposing your information that is just the way it is...and having someone "swipe" your CC doesn't have anything to do with privacy just theft.

Interesting aside on the Amex issue: the customer service rep at Amex was able to tell that the transactions in Florida were swiped: so someone recreated my card...the only two places where I frequented where that would've happened was at a Hess gas station here in town or at Macaroni Grill...hey that waiter did "look" a bit shady...!

Having someone steal your credit card info does have something to do with privacy IMO. If someone comes into your home and steals your wallet they have effectively violated your privacy. If someone gets online and is able to steal information that allows them to create a credit card with your information that is invading your privacy. If say for example ,a state publishes online informaiton: DOB, SSN say for a traffic violation that provides information that allows that credit card to be created, then they are violating privacy information.

I'm very sorry about your situation as I went through the same thing, but you are assuming that the data was swiped from your two previous transactions, but have no way of verifying that. The data could have been obtained by a myriad of ways outside of those two swipes if your data is readily available elsewhere.

One of the most abusive pieces of information that has to be given out is your SSN. For exampe, if you try you set up a CHASE card on Amazon they want your SSN. Why? Some government agencies use the SSN as an identifier in their matches and that data is readily available for many employees to simply copy along with a DOB. The use of SSN is now the norm.

I am curious what your definition of "privacy" is, and what it is not.

[wonatthewire1]

...oh, now we're getting somewhere when you requested my definition of privacy...

And theft is just that, theft. If I'm going to be out in the world, then there is a possibility of theft; but that has nothing to do with privacy. And if you are out in the world, then you are going to be responsible for protecting your "stuff" and that is how I handled it; no big deal really in this case.

You mention the Chase credit card stuff and Amazon's policy...who says that you "have to" do business with them? Both of those companies have plenty of competition and you can do your business with someone else...

The definition of privacy can be and probably is different for everyone...so it is a losing battle to debate it. I expect that what I do legally is a private matter and that is generally "my" definition of privacy. Out in the real world with real transactions is going to open me up to theft no matter how careful I am...so I accept that and don't worry about it too much. :cool: But I do keep an eye open on accounts and take care of it. :ThmbUp:

[Tom]

There is a great need for requried practices for those who handle confidential data - as witnessed by the numerous cases recently where laptops have been stolen, disks lost, etc.

This is one of those areas where government is needed becasue if left to the marklet, it will never happen.

Perhaps now that nirvana has been achieved - a dem congress - this will get attention. Nancy? What hour will this be taken up?

:rolleyes::lol:

[wonatthewire1]

and Sec...you either didn't understand CC theft or ignored the particulars...

In order to have someone 'swipe' a transaction without having my card; they would have to have gotten the information from the card as it is embedded in the magnetic strip on the back of it...

Here in NJ you can't pump your own gas, so that requires that you surrender your CC to a gas attendant; who 'could' have a card reader in the palm of his/her hand...that's how you get the information.

Waiters can get it too because they have the CC in their possession when they run your card through the machine to pay for a tab > again, out of my possession but returned to me.

Doing online transactions doesn't expose the magnetic strip, so even with the CC number, it would be impossible to recreate the card and have a duplicate card "verify" with Amex or any other CC company...

Hope that the above assists.

[Tom]

???? You can't pump your own in NJ?

Wow.

[wonatthewire1]

against the law in NJ (?)

I don't understand it either...but it is funny how one can get to the point of commonplace.

When in other states, I have to remind myself to do it and yes, you can look a bit silly sitting there for a few minutes until you realize that you ain't getting any help :lol:

[Secretariat]

and Sec...you either didn't understand CC theft or ignored the particulars...

In order to have someone 'swipe' a transaction without having my card; they would have to have gotten the information from the card as it is embedded in the magnetic strip on the back of it...

Here in NJ you can't pump your own gas, so that requires that you surrender your CC to a gas attendant; who 'could' have a card reader in the palm of his/her hand...that's how you get the information.

Waiters can get it too because they have the CC in their possession when they run your card through the machine to pay for a tab > again, out of my possession but returned to me.

Doing online transactions doesn't expose the magnetic strip, so even with the CC number, it would be impossible to recreate the card and have a duplicate card "verify" with Amex or any other CC company...

Hope that the above assists.

You obviously are unaware that with data theft online, a credit card can be applied for easily and obtained and used w/o swiping the information from your magnenetic strip. Not trying to be condescending but I've read many stories of this happening. Why do you think so many veterans were up in arms after much fo this confidential information was available after the laptops were stolen. If enough of your information is available it is relatively easy to apply for credit with your information. If you think swiping a magnetic strip is all there is to it, then you are limiting your thinking.



While we're talking about consumer privacy which hinges around theft, the definition of privacy:

"The degree to which an individual can determine which personal information is to be shared with whom and for what purpose. Although always a concern when users pass confidential information to vendors by phone, mail or fax, the Internet has brought this issue to the forefront. Web sites often have privacy policies that stipulate exactly what will be done with the information you enter"

[Bala]

wonattewire1 --

You're missing the point entirely. The lack of privacy contributes to the ease of information theft. Not a day goes by where there is yet another story of some illegal {I mean undocumented} alien using a legitimate but stolen SS#.

This article (http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Banking/FinancialPrivacy/DiagnosisIdentityTheft.aspx) explains that IDTheft of healthcare is on the rise and it is incredibly cheap (and easy) for a thief to get your medical billing information.

And don't just worry about the bill for the procedure that you will invariably have to fight. Worry about your medical records being mixed with the thief's. If you are in an accident, unconscious, and needing a blood transfusion for instance, you could get the wrong blood type, or medication that you are allergic to!

Medical identity theft -- in which crooks impersonate unsuspecting individuals to get costly care they couldn't otherwise afford -- is growing.

Based on Federal Trade Commission surveys, Pam Dixon, the executive director of the World Privacy Forum, a San Diego research group, estimates that more than 250,000 Americans have had their medical information stolen and misused in recent years........





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No matter what other nations may say about US,
immigration is still the sincerest form of flattery.