View Full Version : Moss Pace Figures
gotrocks13
01-25-2007, 07:24 PM
Has anybody had the chance to see the Moss Pace figures that DRF is advertising? Any comments?
PlanB
01-25-2007, 07:29 PM
No but I'm buying Formulator DLs; I hope they're included.
Marc At DRF
01-30-2007, 03:04 PM
Plan B,
Minor bummer. No Moss Pace Figs in Formulator for now. Second minor bummer-- just how long my explanation of this will be. Here's the deal:
1) During the public beta, all Formulator customers can access the figs--at no extra charge--by looking at the PDF PPs for the same racecard.
2) Once the project is complete (we're going to charge a premium once all major circuits are done, and then Randy will add the tiny circuits through the Spring so that there will Moss Pace Figs for all North American tracks), Moss Pace Figs will initially be available 3 ways:
a) in PDF PPs enhanced with them.
b) as a "stand alone" PDF report, with the figs themselves in a sort of stripped down format that doesn't include some of the typical PP info. This product is meant to augment other PPs. For example, if you like our print PPs but you want the pace figs, you would buy this product. It'll be cheaper than the full-on PDF PPs with pace figs.
c) database-able format.
Assuming you're a Formulator 4 customer, you'll have access to A and B above at no additional charge. Repeat: We're not charging a premium to Formulator 4 customers for Moss Pace Fig access. They're already paying a premium for Formulator 4, so that's that.
3) We're going to keep Formulator 4 around for awhile in it's current form, but we've really had it up to here with all of the quirks of trying to get software this complex to work on so many platforms... it's just ridiculous (anyone who ever had their track diagrams print out upside down would certainly concur). So, we're currently starting work on web-based version of Formulator. This will make most everyone's life a lot easier. That said, beta testing on Formulator is about 20 times harder than beta testing anything else, so I think it's gonna be a while before we see web Formulator. Anyway, my point is we've stopped developing Formulator software and instead are concetrating resources on developing it for the web. And, to finally address your brief comment, when we launch a web-based Formulator, it will have Moss Pace Figs as a feature.
I hope that sort of makes sense...
[QUOTE=Marc At DRF]
3) We're going to keep Formulator 4 around for awhile in it's current form, but we've really had it up to here with all of the quirks of trying to get software this complex to work on so many platforms... it's just ridiculous (anyone who ever had their track diagrams print out upside down would certainly concur). So, we're currently starting work on web-based version of Formulator....Anyway, my point is we've stopped developing Formulator software and instead are concetrating resources on developing it for the web.
QUOTE]
Marc,
I've been a 3 time annual subscriber to DRF for the sole purpose of using the export feature. Is there a commitment to keeping this in the web version?
Marc At DRF
01-30-2007, 04:28 PM
Of course.
BeatTheChalk
02-01-2007, 10:34 PM
I guess my brain is not working as well as it did - in my prior life. I tried to
read the posting - and drifted and sailed away to another dimension. I am
sure that other folks - would be able to stay with it ..keep focus and
rock and roll. Sadly I could not .. Ah well Moss was never my favorite
broadcaster - but he did seem to know horses. :bang:
BIG RED
02-02-2007, 04:57 AM
I didn't get an email about fridays cap, checked drf site, found nothing on when? Can you say when or how to be involved?
andicap
02-02-2007, 12:53 PM
My congrats to the DRF for finally developing pace figures, and Randy Moss is a very respected name in the handicapping business and I'm sure the figures will be first-rate.
Now I can understand the difficulties and complications in programming everything into the online DRF, etc.
But I'm a little perplexed about all the "issues" of computing the pace figures themselves. CJ has been compiling world-class pace figures for years as has Colt's Neck, HTR, HSH and probably other Jim Cramer/HDW clients I'm not familiar with (Bob Purdy, etc.). Much, much better than BRIS/Equibase, etc.
Or do these figures have something the others lack? Are they more accurate?
For selfish reasons I'm glad DRF didn't just contract with Craig or Jim Cramer --but seems to me that would have been the smart move. They would have had excellent figures a long time ago. I can only guess they didn't have a big enough "name" for marketing purposes. And as we all know, marketing is everything. Besides, in the ultra-cliquey, log-rolling world of handicappers/writers, etc., if you're not part of the in-crowd, forget it.
classhandicapper
02-02-2007, 05:36 PM
andicap,
Most pace figures are made relative to the typical fractions at the distance for a certain final time.
Here's a rough example of what I am saying. Let's say:
22.3 46.2 111.4 is typical for 6F at a certain track. Each call might get a rating of 80.
24.2 48.6 113.6 152.6 is typical for 9F at the same track. Each call might get a rating of 80.
Variations up and down from that pace and final time get ratings higher or lower than 80.
These ratings tell you something important about the pace relative to the final time, but they don't tell you the obvious fact that the 6F horse is a hell of lot faster early than the router, because they both got a rating of 80!
The Moss pace figures will tell which horse is actually faster early and seperately tell you whether the pace was fast or slow relative to the final time so you can get at the race shape.
The Moss figures are adjusted for run up, turns, track speed, and other similar issues that make early speed comparisons from distance to distance and track to track extremely difficult.
IMHO, this is a major step forward.
Handicappers will be able to use this incremental pace information in many ways to improve on the formulas and other personal handicapping insights they are currently using with great success.
IMHO, this in no way makes other people's PFs, velocity ratings etc... irrelevant or less valuable, it just gives us all something extra to work with on top of what we are already doing as individuals.
I give it a HUGE :ThmbUp:
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