HSH 24-hour, PA Special

[Dave Schwartz]

If you are considering purchasing the HorseStreet Handicapper software, now is the time!


From now until Thursday, January 18, 2006 PA members can purchase HSH for just $399! That is a savings of $200!

To place your order, just contact us at 775.825.0260 and say, "I want the PA Special!"


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[BillW]

From now until Thursday, January 18, 2006 PA members can purchase HSH for just $399! That is a savings of $200!


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

Dave,

You'll sell more if you move the special up to this year. :p

[tupper]

Dave,

Is there a Linux/Unix port of HSH?

-Dale

[banacek]

Dave,

You'll sell more if you move the special up to this year. :p

And you'd sell more (me for one) if you'd allow a $50 limited downloading from HDW - like Cynthia does for All-in-One! Time to serve the weekend players! Some of us have jobs and family responsibilities. That doesn't mean we can't be on the cutting edge.

But we've been through that before;)

[bigmack]

And you'd sell more (me for one) if you'd allow a $50 limited downloading from HDW -
I ain't here to hawk for nobody but bana - How much is HSH is for every card for the entire month, about $120? So, if you believe that it's a viable product you're going to pass because of $70? I get products I pay $120/mo for that I'd be willing to pay $400 for as their value is far greater than what I'm paying

Point is, if you find a program that can elevate your game to a new level, you'll quickly make back the $70 you're worried about and be money ahead - No?

[Dave Schwartz]

And you'd sell more (me for one) if you'd allow a $50 limited downloading from HDW - like Cynthia does for All-in-One!

That option is not available for HSH. Not my choice.


Dave

PS: I stand corrected on the date! :lol:

[BillW]

T
PS: I stand corrected on the date! :lol:

Bet you've never been accused of red boarding a sale before. :eek:

[Dave Schwartz]

Is there a Linux/Unix port of HSH?

No, there is simply no market.


Dave

[banacek]

IPoint is, if you find a program that can elevate your game to a new level, you'll quickly make back the $70 you're worried about and be money ahead - No?

You have a point. If I was 25 and single, I'd be in like a dirty shirt. As it is I have a job, a wife (who is very understanding about my hobby) and 3 kids. I don't have time to play 100 cards or week or even 20 cards a week. My main track I play 2-3 times a week, a track that I know very well. I'd love to try HSH on it. I can deal with the $599, but the extra $79 a month is close to a grand a year. Now $129 for 8 cards a month seems a bit much. For every track, every day, sounds like a great deal. Maybe I'm cheap. Maybe I don't want to spend the extra grand on tracks I'm not interested in. And at that rate unless I have an assurance of making a profit:D , it is hard to build into my handicapping budget.

But Dave and I (and others) have been through this before. He says it is beyond his control and he's a straight-up guy so I believe him.

But why is it not beyond Cynthia's control when they use the same data supplier- HDW?:confused:

[Dave Schwartz]

But why is it not beyond Cynthia's control when they use the same data supplier- HDW?

They were grand-fathered in. We joined HDW several years later.


Dave

[PlanB]

umm sort of like Ken Massa? The data rolls on, but it's what 2 very dedicated honest qualified scholarly cerebral cappers add to that data. Heck maybe there's more than just 2 devoted players, I don't know of anymore. In a way it's just great if you go with one or more services & get them to custom your DLs the way you like. Of course, it's data they compute anyway, but you want A B C but NOT D. No distractions please.
PS: the two I referred to was David Schwartz & Ken Massa.

[Pace Cap'n]

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Dick Schmidt]

Random neuron firing:


If you are a casual player looking for relaxation, then the cost of data is very important. If, on the other hand, you are serious about racing, you want to build some sort of a database, model, profile, whatever on every track you play plus every track that ships to your track. Even if you only play 1 or 2 days a week, you need to know what is going on where you bet. If you play more than 3 days a month and bet more than $20 a race, the "extra" data will more than pay for itself.

Dick

Here I am! What are your other two wishes?

[bigmack]

That's another thing. Do people that don't have a database of info to back test let alone the multitude of things you can do with that pile of information realize the power of that data?

If you're gonna play this game - Think Big - Who knows, you might get good at it and make adult dollars.

[loopeepop]

If you offer this discount on 1-20-07, I will take you up on the offer. I checked out your web site I am impressed. I have been looking for a product to start of the year with a winning effort. I have heard excellent reports about your par time figures, I am making a chang this year and I expect to be a winner this time next year.

[Dave Schwartz]

Yes, that is what I meant. LOL-

Okay, so the discount is for THIS year... ending on the 18th of January, 2007.


Dave

[JustRalph]

I bitched and screamed about HDW's prices, etc. I tried a program that uses HDW data for a couple of months. I loved it. And the Data was incredible. I canceled because I got too busy doing other things to play enough. In fact I am barely playing at all right now. But, I have to say...........If you don't check out the programs like HSH and some others that use HDW data, you are cheating yourself.

I will go back some day. It is well worth it.

[Dick Schmidt]

Aw Dave, give the man a two day break. It would be worth it just to have someone named loopeepop (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/member.php?u=3152) vbmenu_register("postmenu_348900", true); posting on your board.


Dick

Speak softly and carry a megaphone.

[JoeG]

I agree on the HDW data in general and HSH in particular -- both are terrific! I used to use HSH but stopped 2 years ago only because I didn't have the time commitment to make it work and was betting very few t-bred races. Personally I found I do better betting harness horses with less time. I developed a harness DB using the subpar Trackmaster/USTA/StandardbredCanada data that works, but wish HDW and Dave S would come up with tools that a harness player could use. I'd sign up right away at the prices they charge now. Of course I know there are far fewer buggy players out there and a product like this would be even more of a niche item then t-bred software.

Not using their products now doesn't diminish the great HDW data and terrific tools in HSH. If I ever decided to go back to t-breds I'd quickly sign back up for HSH and the HDW data. Time is my biggest enemy right now. But looking at the lessons and info Dave has put online, HSH 4 looks to be a great improvement over what I used just a few years ago.

[JimG]

If I ever decided to go back to t-breds I'd quickly sign back up for HSH and the HDW data. Time is my biggest enemy right now. But looking at the lessons and info Dave has put online, HSH 4 looks to be a great improvement over what I used just a few years ago.

Hi Joe,

I agree that HSH 4 really appears to be cutting edge. Congrats to Dave S. for developing this software for his users. Looks to have so many different ways to attack the races I do not see how prices would diminish much from his users having the same software. It really is amazing how good some of the commercial software is for horse players.

Jim

[cj]

...Personally I found I do better betting harness horses with less time. I developed a harness DB using the subpar Trackmaster/USTA/StandardbredCanada data that works, but wish HDW and Dave S would come up with tools that a harness player could use.

I think the harness people are really missing out by not providing quality files that can used confidently in databases and programs.

[Handiman]

I have to ask. What makes the data in HDW files so much better than the data in TSN, BRIS and others?


Handi

[bigmack]

I have to ask. What makes the data in HDW files so much better than the data in TSN, BRIS and others?

Attention to detail without fail. Think of a fine tooth comb then double the amount of teeth. It's a "toothy" outfit.

[BillW]

I have to ask. What makes the data in HDW files so much better than the data in TSN, BRIS and others?


Handi

Mostly proactive attention to errors in the files and willingness to correct errors that do slip through in a timely manner. Visibility and willingness of HDW to interact with customers and respond to questions/complaints/suggestions is also a major positive to me.

[njcurveball]

. I can deal with the $599, but the extra $79 a month is close to a grand a year. Now $129 for 8 cards a month seems a bit much.

No offense to Dave, but why dont you do a lil research and try a "free" program for your money? The $599 will let you download 5 months and you can get a feel on whether you like having data for every day of the week.

I also agree with your "per card" suggestion. I have sent the same one many times. It seems to me if a file is on a Server, it is as near free as a company can get. To get money for it from someone who cannot afford the whole month seems like a better business decision than to just "stand pat" and let people download other files (TSN, DRF, BRIS) which they can get on an "as needed" basis.

I also see people using HDW skipping months to try to save money. Then the next month, they download all of the previous files to keep their database up to date. Does it seem crazy to supply the SAME data for free that you wont let people pay for on an "as needed" basis?


Jim

[banacek]

No offense to Dave, but why dont you do a lil research and try a "free" program for your money? The $599 will let you download 5 months and you can get a feel on whether you like having data for every day of the week.

You mean like Synergism or HTR? I've thought about it, but I like what I see with HSH. But HTR is moving up steadily. And it would be a relatively cheap experiment. Seems like a lot of programs are free and they make the money on the data - and that's ok. That's their business model.

Although I would like last years data to check things out and I don't know how much Ill be charged for archive data for any of these programs.

[betovernetcapper]

I've used HDW for many years beginning with AIO and then moving to Netcapper ($100@month). In the early days the programs just used a surface model, so you could not touch your computer for a month-download the month's charts and be up to speed. Today's programs make more detailed adjustments/models in some measure dependant on daily handicapping, so I doubt the 6 card per month deal would be of much use.

[njcurveball]

You make a good point, however not all of the ratings are predicated on having other days in your database. Many of them are taken from the past performances.

For models and other "high tech" stuff, you probably do need more than todays card. But if you are ready to handicap like that, you are probably bettng much more than $129 a month.

I would be comfortable having just a single day with the programs mentioned in this thread.

I think all of them are much better than the Form with data that you can only get in one place.

I haven't seen the latest version, but I am sure Dave can tell you if this is true.

Jim

[Dave Schwartz]

No offense to Dave, but why dont you do a lil research and try a "free" program for your money? The $599 will let you download 5 months and you can get a feel on whether you like having data for every day of the week.

No offense taken. That is simply not our pricing model.

Our goal is not simply more customers it is more customers who stay.

Last year our retention rate went way up, as did our customer base. I expect more of the same this year. That is attributable to several things:

1. A great product.
2. Classes
3. Personal attention.

In other words, our model is working.


BTW, the "Individual Card" model is not one that is available to us. HDW must be by subscription.



Our official Policies:
http://www.practicalhandicapping.com/desktop/policy/index.htm

[Maxspa]

All+Particularly Former Users,
The change from the Video approach to the Power Point Presentation Lessons has been for me a significant improvement in understanding the new H4. Some of us are horseplayers first with limited computer understanding.
I fit in that category and have found that the new presentations are meaningful and if necessary you can repeat them as often as you need to for total understanding.
I don't want to go into other factors because I will review my experience sometime in February!
Maxspa

[RonTiller]

This thread is about HSH but since we provide data for HSH and since the topic of data pricing has come up, I'll jump right into the viper pit to get Dave off the hot seat.

We've looked carefully at other pricing models but the economics just doesn't work out for us. It's also not just a matter of the files being on a computer already (so there is no incremental cost). There are in fact costs in time and money and accounting and auditing and programming. These costs take their toll on a small company of 3. There are othe considerations in play also, but I will not get into those on a public bbs such as this.

Also betovernetcapper makes a good point, in that most of the programs we provide data for (in HSH in particular!) involve some to a lot of database or artifical intelligense functionality, which doesn't tend to flourish with just a few downloads a month. However, the economics is the primary reason.

We are well aware of all the arguments, pro and con, and after very careful consideration and research, this is what we have landed on. And this answer NEVER satisfies anybody, especially somebody who only wants to download 6 HSH files a month (which would make the per file cost more than Allways). The ugly truth is that we run a small business and we cannot afford to make everybody happy, much as we would like to.

So if this seems wrong, bad, unfair, incomprehensible, stupid or bad business, blame HDW and not Dave (or anybody else for whom we provide data files).

There, I said it. I knew you wouldn't like the answer.

Ron Tiller
HDW

[njcurveball]

WOW! I never realized HDW was doing all of their great work with only 3 people!

That is incredible!!! Now I fully understand your reasoning!

Thanks for the great explanation Ron!

Jim

[ryesteve]

most of the programs we provide data for (in HSH in particular!) involve some to a lot of database or artifical intelligense functionality, which doesn't tend to flourish with just a few downloads a month.
Just to toss my 2 cents in, this is what would probably keep me from ever using software that relies on HDW data. I already have years' worth of data in "another" format, and starting all over again from scratch doesn't feel like an option. If there was ever a way you could offer a massive amount of archived data at a not-so-massive price, that'd make it far more tempting.

[hdcper]

Ron,

Although I don't use HDW data at this time, I have in the past. My question is, is there a discount to use HDW data if you utilize more than one software package that requires HDW datafiles and results?

It seems charging twice for the same data in a slightly different format, is asking users of the data to absorb all the cost, rather than reducing the software maker's commission and HDW's profit on each additional download needed to run additional programs.

Just wondering,

Hdcper

[loopeepop]

I read the info online and the conversation here and it appears to some people feel that HSH is more accurate and more customer service oriented. On the other hand HDW will refund 80% of your mony if you don't like it. Both use par-time figures. And a lot of other fuzzy logic. Bottom line,
which systme gives you the winning horse the higest % of the time on a consistant basis. Can anyone tell me.

[JimG]

I read the info online and the conversation here and it appears to some people feel that HSH is more accurate and more customer service oriented. On the other hand HDW will refund 80% of your mony if you don't like it. Both use par-time figures. And a lot of other fuzzy logic. Bottom line,
which systme gives you the winning horse the higest % of the time on a consistant basis. Can anyone tell me.

HSH (Horse Street Handicappper) is horse racing software. HDW (Handicappers Data Warehouse) supplies the data that is used in HSH so the software may work. They are used jointly.

[acorn54]

i don't think there would be a money issue if the combination of hsh software and hdw datafiles produced a profit for the user. it would simply be a cost of doing business. it's only if you are getting a negative r.o.i. from using the software/datafiles that you don't like paying for them.
i think dave has a rent- to- own choice, so one can simply rent month by month, and if the hsh software shows a satisfactory profit one can pay the costs of the software/datafiles out of one's profits.
personally i am satisfied with the software i use and don't mind paying the 60 dollars per month that it costs for the datafiles, as it represents a very small portion of my profits over the course of the year.
acorn