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View Full Version : Biofuels article from Wired Mag


highnote
01-14-2007, 03:28 AM
Interesting article in Wired by Sun Microsystems founder. His agenda comes through in the article, but there are some things I like about it -- if what he says are true. I think it would be great to be free of mideast oil dependence.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.10/ethanol.html

Anyone know much about biofuels?

JustRalph
01-14-2007, 04:06 AM
Only one problem. If we try to wean ourselves, they just drop the price. No matter what technology we go with they drop their price on oil enough to make the new technology unrealistic. Some of the OPEC types have already said that this will happen. It should be interesting though............I hope I live long enough to see it play out.

singunner
01-14-2007, 04:10 AM
I've heard bio-diesel may be the future but that the impact of some of the crops used to produce it is rather intense. Also, in undeveloped countries, I hear they're clear-cutting rainforest in order to produce it. So now, not only is oil destroying the environment one way, but by forcing some alternative due to high prices, it's encouraging deforestation to produe bio-diesel.

Most people agree that hydrogen is worthless and possibly a red herring. On the other hand, hybrids are getting better and better every day. Also, it's possible to convert a current diesel car into one that runs off of vegetable oil for about 2000 dollars and then (supposedly) you can get a free unlimited supply of used vegetable oil from fast-food chains that are done using it to increase the waistline of the American public. There are alternatives, but society won't accept them until it is somehow forced to (high prices, scarcity, apocalypse, etc.)

highnote
01-14-2007, 04:14 AM
Only one problem. If we try to wean ourselves, they just drop the price. No matter what technology we go with they drop their price on oil enough to make the new technology unrealistic. Some of the OPEC types have already said that this will happen. It should be interesting though............I hope I live long enough to see it play out.


I'm all for lower prices. I thought oil prices were determined by market forces? When you say they will just drop prices -- who are you referring to -- the OPEC? I would think refiners, distributors, etc. don't have a lot of room to drop prices. They have to maintain some margin, otherwise they would be out of business.

singunner
01-14-2007, 04:22 AM
They're a plain and simple cartel and have been recognized as such for a very long time. They will do anything to keep their cash cow alive. They make the RIAA and MPAA look like children playing in a sandbox.

JustRalph
01-14-2007, 07:27 PM
I'm all for lower prices. I thought oil prices were determined by market forces? When you say they will just drop prices -- who are you referring to -- the OPEC? I would think refiners, distributors, etc. don't have a lot of room to drop prices. They have to maintain some margin, otherwise they would be out of business.

Technically you are right. But guess what happens if "they" flood the market with oil? You ever hear them talk about slowing production to raise the price levels? They talk about it at their OPEC meetings all the time. They can raise the price up by cutting production. Although it is not as controllable as flooding the market would be. see here

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=aVdECq9Oper0&refer=news

quote from link:

Unacceptable to OPEC

OPEC President Mohamed al-Hamli said yesterday's drop below $53 a barrel was ``unacceptable.'' He urged members to comply with cuts in output they promised to make in November and in February.

The Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, which produces about 40 percent of the world's oil, decided in the fourth quarter to cut output by a total of 1.7 million barrels a day by Feb. 1. Consultations among ministers about falling prices are ``ongoing,'' Al-Hamli said.

highnote
01-15-2007, 12:24 AM
That makes sense. Thanks.