One thing I heard Bush admit tonight....

[DJofSD]

...is that the insurgancy are better stragetists than the US military forces.

[Tom]

...is that the insurgancy are better stragetists than the US military forces.

No, better than HE IS. The dope led us to war and tied our troops hand behind thieri backs. As commander-n-chief, it HIS fault and his alone that we are in the mess we are today. He did not have the brains or the balls to wage a real war. From the day we failed to pursue the enemy into Falluja, he grabbed failure from the jaws of defeat. No matter what happens from now on, he will go donw in history as a dispshit.

As rhe "decider" this floor mat needs to start deciding - can yo imagine what would have happend if Ike waited until we landed at Normandy to take a poll and see what he should do next.

I do't agree that we need any more troops over there - we need to git 'r done - wage 110% all out, bloody, devastating, thorough war until the job is done.
No getting oil fileds pumping ( although he said the oil would pay fo rthe war and the rebuilding - can this dodo get ANYTHING right????), no buidling raods, no creating jobs - search and destroy, then move on. Let THEM clean up when we are gone.


MR. Bush, git off yer arse.

( all in all, an uninspiring speech - punctuation on a failed president)

[DJofSD]

Good points, Tom.

My view -- the administration lacks intelligence and balls. The try to arrive at a consensus in areas that they should be leaders. It's clear, Bush ain't no Ike!

[46zilzal]

reminds me of a drunk at the track who kept on betting long after he was able to make a rational decisions and lost everything.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Good points, Tom.

My view -- the administration lacks intelligence and balls. The try to arrive at a consensus in areas that they should be leaders. It's clear, Bush ain't no Ike!
__
They always seedm to be REacting instead of acting out of good planning.
I really cannot think of any current politicians who are know to be good military strategists in either party.

[delayjf]

I have no doubt that Tom's plan would work and at this point I think that's what is called for. But, I don't blame Bush for at least attempting to go the route he did. Lets face it, total war would have decimated Iraq and killed a lot of people - possibly needlessly. It was worth the effort to try to get the Iraqi's to take care of their own. No doubt that has failed for a lot of reasons. Now is the time to kick ass and take names. If 20,000 doesnt work, send in another 20,000. Get as many of those bastards to die for their country as possible.

Given the current lack of will (guts) of the American people, I don't see his decision to increase troop strength as seeking a consensus. The Dems are against it, the American People are against it. I'm sure he has a lot of nervous Repubs pulling his ear about the upcoming elections who are worried about the war's affect on the outcome. The easy thing to do would be to cut and run, but he has never even hinted at that.

In a lot of ways, FDR and Ike had it easy they had a definable hated foe fighting a conventional war plus the backing of the US press - to include Hollywood (imagine that). :eek:

[46zilzal]

Parody on the speech:"Listen, can I be frank? Sending in 20,000 more troops just ain't gonna do the job. That will only bring the troop level back up to what it was last year. And we were losing the war last year! We've already had over a million troops serve some time in Iraq since 2003. Another few thousand is simply not enough to find those weapons of mass destruction! Er, I mean... bringing those responsible for 9/11 to justice! Um, scratch that."

or suggestions on what to do:
1.More than 62,000,000 Americans voted for you in the last election (the one that took place a year and half into a war we already knew we were losing). I am confident that at least a third of them would want to put their body where their vote was and sign up to volunteer. I know many of these people and, while we may disagree politically, I know that they don't believe someone else should have to go and fight their fight for them -- while they hide here in America.

2. Start a "Kill an Iraqi" Meet-Up group in cities across the country. I know this idea is so early-21st century, but I once went to a Lou Dobbs Meet-Up and, I swear, some of the best ideas happen after the third mojito. I'm sure you'll get another five million or so enlistees from this effort.

3. Send over all members of the mainstream media. After all, they were your collaborators in bringing us this war -- and many of them are already trained from having been "embedded!" If that doesn't bring the total to 28 million, then draft all viewers of the FOX News channel.

[DJofSD]

In a lot of ways, FDR and Ike had it easy they had a definable hated foe fighting a conventional war plus the backing of the US press - to include Hollywood (imagine that).

What's the matter, Jeff, you didn't like "Broke Back Mountain"?

[delayjf]

DJ,

Here's a Noval idea, we'll recruit and form a division consisting totally of GLT. Naturally they will be called the GLT Division. We'll send them to Iraq. We'll call it "Operation Brokeback Bagdad" :lol: :lol: Do you think Hollywood could get "behind" that project.

[delayjf]

1.More than 62,000,000 Americans voted for you in the last election (the one that took place a year and half into a war we already knew we were losing). I am confident that at least a third of them would want to put their body where their vote was and sign up to volunteer

No need, we already have a all volunteer force able and willing to serve (minus one liberal officer) - Bush even waived the " vote for Bush" requirement.

Start a "Kill an Iraqi" Meet-Up group in cities across the country You mean like the Al-Qaida think tanks currently being conducted in Afgan, Iran, Iraq, US.

Send over all members of the mainstream media.
I understand the folks at Air America are free. :D

[DJofSD]

"Operation Broke Back Baghdad" works for me!

Psyops: show that movie then tell the mulahs who attends.

[delayjf]

Psyops: show that movie then tell the mulahs who attends.
Plus 24 hours non-stop playing of "Rock the Casbah" :lol:

[46zilzal]

and this is the clown who spoke these words:"I want to be the peace president."

[Secretariat]

It wasn't so much what he said because we've all heard his BS before, but what struck me was the lack of bravado and certainty he generally tries to exude, the country boy...there was barely a trace of the old quasi Texas accent he puts on, perhaps he only uses that for elections. The man just looked frightened, like a deer in the head lights.

[46zilzal]

Upon watching McNamara in The Fog of War I was taken at the degree of which he understood what a folly he had undertaken and gave out what he had learned. Doesn't it sound like it should be reviewed today?
1. We misjudged then — and we have since — the geopolitical intentions of our adversaries … and we exaggerated the dangers to the United States of their actions.
2. We viewed the people and leaders of South Vietnam in terms of our own experience … We totally misjudged the political forces within the country.
3. We underestimated the power of nationalism to motivate a people to fight and die for their beliefs and values.
4. Our judgments of friend and foe alike reflected our profound ignorance of the history, culture, and politics of the people in the area, and the personalities and habits of their leaders.
5. We failed then — and have since — to recognize the limitations of modern, high-technology military equipment, forces and doctrine…
6. We failed as well to adapt our military tactics to the task of winning the hearts and minds of people from a totally different culture.
7. We failed to draw Congress and the American people into a full and frank discussion and debate of the pros and cons of a large-scale military involvement … before we initiated the action.
8. After the action got under way and unanticipated events forced us off our planned course … we did not fully explain what was happening and why we were doing what we did.
9. We did not recognize that neither our people nor our leaders are omniscient. Our judgment of what is in another people's or country's best interest should be put to the test of open discussion in international forums. We do not have the God-given right to shape every nation in our image or as we choose.
10. We did not hold to the principle that U.S. military action … should be carried out only in conjunction with multinational forces supported fully (and not merely cosmetically) by the international community.
11. We failed to recognize that in international affairs, as in other aspects of life, there may be problems for which there are no immediate solutions … At times, we may have to live with an imperfect, untidy world.

[JustRalph]

It wasn't so much what he said because we've all heard his BS before, but what struck me was the lack of bravado and certainty he generally tries to exude, the country boy...there was barely a trace of the old quasi Texas accent he puts on, perhaps he only uses that for elections. The man just looked frightened, like a deer in the head lights.

stop stealing your opines from Howard Fineman. You are a joke

[PlanB]

JR, your rebuttals are good, but what do you think Bush did Wrong? Right? Many of us, myself included, are 10000% USA, but when is enough enough? Ok, is there some exit strategy that is NOT political, just military?

[Secretariat]

JR, if Fineman agrees with me, so be it.

Is GW really going to listen to his commanders? Apparently not if they're in Afghanistan trying to fight the Taliban and get Bin Laden. Why is a US Army Battalion being withdrawn to fight in Iraq under this situation?

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/bal-te.afghanistan07jan07,0,3288686.story?page=1&coll=bal-attack-headlines

Afghan war needs troops
Taliban expected to push against thin U.S., NATO forces

...

As a last-ditch effort, President Bush is expected to announce this week the dispatch of thousands of additional troops to Iraq as a stopgap measure, an order that Pentagon officials say would strain the Army and Marine Corps as they struggle to man both wars.

Already, a U.S. Army infantry battalion fighting in a critical area of eastern Afghanistan is due to be withdrawn within weeks in order to deploy to Iraq.

...

"It is bleak," said Col. Chris Haas, commander of the Joint Special Operations Task Force in Afghanistan.

"The gains we have made over the past few years are mostly gone," said a bearded Special Operations officer, fresh in from advising Afghan army units in battle with 600 to 700 well-equipped Taliban fighters

...

According to Army Brig. Gen. Anthony J. Tata and other senior U.S. commanders here, that will happen just as the Taliban is expected to unleash a major campaign to cut the vital road between Kabul and Kandahar. The official said the Taliban intend to seize Kandahar, Afghanistan's second-largest city and the place where the group was organized in the 1990s.

"We anticipate significant events there next spring," said Tata.

"This could be a pivotal year" for U.S. and NATO forces in Afghanistan, Gen. James T. Conway, commandant of the Marine Corps, said in an interview after a recent series of briefings here. "I don't think they see that they are near defeat or anything. ..."

[delayjf]

Sec,

Did it ever occur to you than we might be baiting the enemy into a fight. If we could draw the Taliban out of the Mountains....Oh Boy. :jump:

:"I want to be the peace president."

Now if Clinton had said that - he could respond "it all depends on what the defination of "Piece" means. ;) ;)

[DJofSD]

"All we are saying is,
Just give peas a chance."

[Tom]

"All we are saying is,
Just give peas a chance."

Split peas, not hairs!:rolleyes:



Sec - fact is, pulling out would be the EASY thing to do. It is harder to do what you believe - win. Kennedy has sung the same song over and over for 30 year. In fact, I can't remember a time there wans't a Ted Kennedy out there looking for ways to lose wars.
There is a difference between doing things wrong and doing the wrong things.

Bush is one of the few out there still fighting the enemy. Still trying to protect the nation. The path do victory is the path away from democrats, away from the press, away from worrying about politics.
He sent, IMO, a clear message to Iran last night.

It is time to fight a war and ignore the weak of heart, the politcos and the drive by media. The fact that this is alrady in motion is the first good sign I have seen in a year or better.

BTW, cathc all the interviews today wtih soldiers, in the battle zone, disgusted with the American public for not standing behind them, who know not a thing about what is going on over there and spouting off over here?

Yeah, Sec, deer in the headlights. Real class. At least he is not hiding in the shadows.

[46zilzal]

Bush is one of the few out there still fighting the enemy. Still trying to protect the nation. The path do victory is the path away from democrats, away from the press, away from worrying about politics.

what crap

[Tom]

When it comes to crap, I bow to YOU, the "Cing of Crap."

You don't like dead Iraqi's go save them with your stem cells.
Oh, you don't do house calls?

[46zilzal]

When it comes to crap, I bow to YOU, the "Cing of Crap."

You don't like dead Iraqi's go save them with your stem cells.
Oh, you don't do house calls?
Strange enough I did one today helping out a housebound 85 year old with arthritis so acute he could not travel.

[PaceAdvantage]

what crap

That's your worthless opinion. Your one liners are neither informative, entertaining, or worthwhile. Why do you even bother?

[46zilzal]

That's your worthless opinion. Your one liners are neither informative, entertaining, or worthwhile. Why do you even bother?
making the late night rounds I see

this guy's presence in persuading the rutabaga will make all those "nuke em" guys stand tall.
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/Bush_surge_crafted_by_aide_who_0109.html

or this tidbit:http://www.lewrockwell.com/floyd/floyd53.html

[dav4463]

I'm so ****ing sick of Bush bashing. Why don't you **********ers back the president for a change so we can win this war? Bunch of ****ing losers. I'm glad you weren't around during WWII or we would all be sporting Hitler mustaches right now.

[rastajenk]

Afghanland still has a multi-national NATO force that isn't worthless. Maybe that batallion that got moved indicates we're still fluid enough to make changes. Does anybody really think the Taliban is poised to make a big recovery? I'd take that bet.

[46zilzal]

I'm so ****ing sick of Bush bashing. Why don't you **********ers back the president for a change so we can win this war? Bunch of ****ing losers. I'm glad you weren't around during WWII or we would all be sporting Hitler mustaches right now.
the rutabaga is an out of control clown. He is "asking" to get impeached as he moves further and further into the role of self professed "KING." He is steadily losing support from his own party with his pisspoor decision making. He is the one who will decide his fate. The clown is heading for a constitutional crisis as one scholar from the U. of Texas stated this A.M on the news.

The leader in the 40's was WORLD'S away from this incompetent idiot.

[Lefty]

and this is the clown who spoke these words:"I want to be the peace president."
Hard to have peace when nuts are out to kill everone. You gain peace through victory not by running your mouth like the libs' alweays suggest.
Your bthe friggin clown, 46, with your constant negative outlook on everything this pres tries to do. BTW, 46, you are more likely to be killed by a terrorist attack than global warming. Put that in your stethescope and poke it.

[46zilzal]

Poll: Americans oppose Iraq troop surge

By Nancy Benac / Associated Press

WASHINGTON - Seventy percent of Americans oppose sending more troops to Iraq, according to a new poll that provides a devastatingly blunt response to President Bush's plan to bolster military forces there.

All sides in the Iraq debate are keenly aware of mounting public dissatisfaction with the situation: Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Thursday it's one thing on which all Americans — including administration officials — are united.

Yet the Associated Press-Ipsos poll found widespread disagreement with the Bush administration over its proposed solution, and growing skepticism that the United States made the right decision in going to war in the first place.

Just as 70 percent of Americans oppose sending more troops to Iraq, a like number don't think such an increase would help stabilize the situation there, the poll suggested


LEFTY Only negative about the schmuck RUTABGA and his delusional (well you know all about that state of mind) ideas.

[Show Me the Wire]

So zilzzal you are saying the bipartisan report that listed sending in more troops as an option is delusional in its assessment as well?

[Lefty]

Poll: Americans oppose Iraq troop surge

By Nancy Benac / Associated Press

WASHINGTON - Seventy percent of Americans oppose sending more troops to Iraq, according to a new poll that provides a devastatingly blunt response to President Bush's plan to bolster military forces there.

All sides in the Iraq debate are keenly aware of mounting public dissatisfaction with the situation: Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Thursday it's one thing on which all Americans — including administration officials — are united.

Yet the Associated Press-Ipsos poll found widespread disagreement with the Bush administration over its proposed solution, and growing skepticism that the United States made the right decision in going to war in the first place.

Just as 70 percent of Americans oppose sending more troops to Iraq, a like number don't think such an increase would help stabilize the situation there, the poll suggested


LEFTY Only negative about the schmuck RUTABGA and his delusional (well you know all about that state of mind) ideas.
So what? They elected a pres and the pres not taking polls ala Clinton but doingf what he thinks is right. Most americans have been contaminated by the mainstream leftist press cand their constant negatives about Iraq and leaving out every positive.
Yes, you are neg about Bush, that's just hate, not rational thinking. It's because you are a socialist so you will never embrace anything but other socialists. That's clear.

[Light]

46

You have my sympathies arguing politics with those who advocate war as a solution. Those who cannot distinguish between real threats and fabricated threats. Misguided sheep. This board is progressive in horseracing but regressive in politics. Intelligence includes the ability to change. Hence evolution is a form of intelligence. But if evolution relied on the rigid mentality of the PA conservative majority,humans would not exist today.

[46zilzal]

So what? They elected a pres and the pres not taking polls ala Clinton but doingf what he thinks is right. Most americans have been contaminated by the mainstream leftist press cand their constant negatives about Iraq and leaving out every positive.

He is NOT the King

[Lefty]

He is NOT the King
Doesn't even address my post about the mainstream press. You are so intent on Bush Bashing you even do it out of context.
What pitiful misguided human beings you and light are.

[46zilzal]

Doesn't even address my post about the mainstream press. You are so intent on Bush Bashing you even do it out of context.
What pitiful misguided human beings you and light are.
the press don't do crap. The rutabaga got over 3000 men killed. They didn't

[46zilzal]

major combat in Iraq is over....Don't think so chart is not up to date as things have degenerated further.

Also Gen Wesley Clarke on the 'surge' :Without such fundamental change in Washington's approach, there is little hope that the troops surge, Iraqi promises and accompanying rhetoric will amount to anything other than "stay the course more". That wastes lives and time, perpetuates the appeal of the terrorists, and simply brings us closer to the showdown with Iran. And that will be a tragedy for not just Iraq but our friends in the region as well.

[46zilzal]

Rep. Neil Abercrombie, D-Hawaii, summed up the tone of hearings when he told Gates and Pace that the new strategy was foolhardy at best.

"This is the craziest, dumbest plan I've heard of in my life," Abercrombie said. "What on earth leads you to think this plan is going to work?"

Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla., noted his past support for the administration on the war but said he couldn't continue. "I have not been told the truth over and over again by administration witnesses, and the American people have not been told the truth," he said.

[Secretariat]

http://www.myantiwar.org/view/103194.html

"Powell, also a former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said he did not see the military benefit of flooding Baghdad with American troops.

"I am not persuaded that another surge of troops into Baghdad for the purposes of suppressing this communitarian violence, this civil war, will work," he said, adding that the Iraqi government and security forces must take over.

"It is the D.C. police force that guards Washington, D.C., not the troops that are stationed at Fort Myer," Powell said. "And in Baghdad, you need a police force to do that, and in the other cities, you need a police force to do that, and not the American troops."

Powell also doubted that the U.S. Army and Marine Corps are large enough to support such an operation.

"The current active Army is not large enough and the Marine Corps is not large enough for the kinds of missions they're being asked to perform," Powell said. "We need to let both the Army and the Marine Corps grow in size, in my military judgment."

...

Powell, who as a member of the Bush Administration pushed the international community to sanction the invasion of Iraq, said that we are not safer now after nearly four years of fighting.

"I think we are a little less safe, in the sense that we don't have the same force structure available for other problems," Powell said. "I think we have been somewhat constrained in our ability to influence events elsewhere."

[dav4463]

What is the president supposed to do when EVERYTHING he does is opposed by half the country? This country needs to come together to defeat terrorism, but half the country hopes we lose.

[46zilzal]

What is the president supposed to do when EVERYTHING he does is opposed by half the country? This country needs to come together to defeat terrorism, but half the country hopes we lose.
No, they just see through this stupidty that the 09/11 events started from AFGHANISTAN not Iraq.

[Lefty]

Iraq was a threat also. Just because you're too dumn to know it, doesn't mean it wasn't. When Japan attacked Pearl Harbor we attacked...Germany. Get over yourself, you're not an 8th as smart as GW in this area.
GW, didn't get 3000 killed, that was the terrorists.l

[46zilzal]

Iraq was a threat also. Just because you're too dumn to know it, doesn't mean it wasn't. When Japan attacked Pearl Harbor we attacked...Germany. Get over yourself, you're not an 8th as smart as GW in this area.
GW, didn't get 3000 killed, that was the terrorists.l
just where are those weapons of mass destruction, the uranuium, the gas centifuges etc???.... MOBILE labs...

I suspect the same place where the unicorns and the pixies are hiding.

[Tom]

Thanks, Lefty.
I was too tired to take him out for his walk tonight.
Appreciate you taking him. :lol:

[Lefty]

just where are those weapons of mass destruction, the uranuium, the gas centifuges etc???.... MOBILE labs...

I suspect the same place where the unicorns and the pixies are hiding.
46, now e're back to that? You keep changfing the argument. mJust read my old posts about Clinton saying same thing, almost 2 tons of uranium found, gas masks, etc etc etc.
We're talking about now. No matter how we got there we're in it, our freedom's at stake. If we walk away do you really think the terrorists will just stop?

Tom, no prob, but he's like a 5 yr old, keeps yammering about same old thing.

[46zilzal]

4 No matter how we got there we're in it, our freedom's at stake. If we walk away do you really think the terrorists will just stop?



No they won't but the solution never was in Iraq

[Secretariat]

What is the president supposed to do when EVERYTHING he does is opposed by half the country? This country needs to come together to defeat terrorism, but half the country hopes we lose.

What is he supposed to do? Well, how about take the bipartisan recommendations by the Iraqi Study Group seriously? How about actually enlisting more allies than having the coalition continue to dissolve? How about acknowedlging that Iraq is now a civil war as Powell has stated, and allow Iraqis to fight for their own determination? How about setting timetables that force the Iraqis to get off theri ass if they want to preserve their fragile democracy? Read what Franklin said about preserving a democracy. We didn't need France to back us up after the American revolution.

And one other thing it is not half the country that he is opposed by, but over 2/3rds now and growing.

[Tom]

democracy. We didn't need France to back us up after the American revolution.



We didn't have Iran on our border.

[Secretariat]

We didn't have Iran on our border.

No, we didn't, but we have Mexico on our border, isn't that a big enough problem?

[JustRalph]

No, we didn't, but we have Mexico on our border, isn't that a big enough problem?

comparing the two is why you lose credibility with some of your crap. If the Mexicans were coming into the country and killing 1000 police officers every year, it might be close to the same. If Mexico was about to go Nuke on us, it might be the same. But it is not the same.


The fact that Illegal aliens kill 30,000 Americans a year is already being ignored. It is far worse than Iraq. But I don't see anybody screaming about it? Why?

[Tom]

Put a century and stay in it, Sec.

YOU posted:

"We didn't need France to back us up after the American revolution."

PAST TENSE.

You need to compare the US then and Iraq NOW. Your example.

[Show Me the Wire]

comparing the two is why you lose credibility with some of your crap. If the Mexicans were coming into the country and killing 1000 police officers every year, it might be close to the same. If Mexico was about to go Nuke on us, it might be the same. But it is not the same.


The fact that Illegal aliens kill 30,000 Americans a year is already being ignored. It is far worse than Iraq. But I don't see anybody screaming about it? Why?


Because to a specific segment of the political spectrum, Iraqi's lives are more sacred than U.S. citizens and resident lives. And illegals have an opportunity to vote in U.S. elections for that specific political segment.

[DJofSD]

To a specific segment of the political spectrum, hypocracy is not a problem. They'll tout the sacredness of life but promote abortion, they'll yell and scream about civil rights for illegals but ignore the citizens fundamental rights guarenteed under the Constitution, they talk about how the very nation they occupy as being the evil and ruled by those that they feel are just as bad as the Hitler's of history but yet they stay here and bitch, bitch, bitch.

I like Dr. Micheal Savage's analogy: liberals are just like the HIV virus.

[chickenhead]

Our biggest problem in Iraq right now is that we are in a very dangerous situation, and we don't have any confidence in the guy in charge. There is no real clean solution to that problem.

I'm inclined to support anything that I think will help some form of stable, passibly reasonable government take root in Iraq. I'm also inclined to distrust Bush, and believe he and his entire crew are total incompetents, who I'm not even sure are trying to do the right thing.

[Show Me the Wire]

Our biggest problem in Iraq right now is that we are in a very dangerous situation, and we don't have any confidence in the guy in charge. There is no real clean solution to that problem.

I'm inclined to support anything that I think will help some form of stable, passibly reasonable government take root in Iraq. I'm also inclined to distrust Bush, and believe he and his entire crew are total incompetents, who I'm not even sure are trying to do the right thing.

The question is why, why did you lose confidence? Because of the demlibs constantly telling everyone how wrong the war is , howthe wrong strategy is being used, or the general divisiness the demlibs created in their quest for power?

Okay, Murtha and his ilk wanted to pull out all the troops from Iraq just a few months ago. Well why isn't Murtah the ,patriot, intorducing legislation now? Right now he most likely has enough votes in the dem controlled Congress to get the vote through.

Because the democrats don't want out of Iraq. They do not want Iran to control the oil flow and they do not want to offend Saudi Arabia. Remember Saudi Arabia, who some believe do not support the Iraq war, threatened to fund a Sunni insurgency against the Shiites. Saudi Arabia sure shows its stance against the war in an unusual manner. All the get out of Iraqi and immoral war talk is nothing more than catchy phrases

Come on Murtha show the American public how much you want the troops out, introduce the bill.

Pelosi Cantelopes bobble again.

[Tom]

I lost faith in him becase he has proven himself to be a fool.
He failed to wage a winning war, he failed to protect our own borders, he failed to address the chinnese manifpualting of trade to our great disadvantage. He failed to get Bin Laden.
In almost every scenario, he has put the US citizen in the back seat to anyone else in the world.

This guy has no clue what is going on around him. He is no leader.
We can balme the press and libs all we want, but fact is, this jerk did stand up to them. He could have, but he didn't. He allowed the country to be lied to. HIS job was lead us, and he has not come close.

At every fork in the road, he went the wrong way.
We've been forked.

[46zilzal]

I lost faith in him becase he has proven himself to be a fool.
He failed to wage a winning war, he failed to protect our own borders, he failed to address the chinnese manifpualting of trade to our great disadvantage. He failed to get Bin Laden.
In almost every scenario, he has put the US citizen in the back seat to anyone else in the world.

This guy has no clue what is going on around him. He is no leader.
We can balme the press and libs all we want, but fact is, this jerk did stand up to them. He could have, but he didn't. He allowed the country to be lied to. HIS job was lead us, and he has not come close.

At every fork in the road, he went the wrong way.
We've been forked.


MORE and MORE are figuring it out too. Just that some knew it a long time before others.

[chickenhead]

SMTW, what Tom said.

[46zilzal]

Here are the lyrics to Neil Young's "Let's Impeach the President"

Let's impeach the president for lying
And leading our country into war
Abusing all the power that we gave him
And shipping all our money out the door

He¹s the man who hired all the criminals
The White House shadows who hide behind closed doors
And bend the facts to fit with their new stories
Of why we have to send our men to war

Let¹s impeach the president for spying
On citizens inside their own homes
Breaking every law in the country
By tapping our computers and telephones

What if Al Qaeda blew up the levees
Would New Orleans have been safer that way
Sheltered by our government¹s protection
Or was someone just not home that day?

Let's impeach the president
For hijacking our religion and using it to get elected
Dividing our country into colors
And still leaving black people neglected

Thank god he¹s racking down on steroids
Since he sold his old baseball team
There's lot of people looking at big trouble
But of course the president is clean

[46zilzal]

"As cynical as I am about this administration, it's hard for me to imagine that at this point, with all the push-back he's getting from Congress and the public about escalating American involvement in Iraq, George W. Bush would even think about launching a new military adventure in Iran. But you have to worry about a president who talks so much about the judgment of history and who has such a Manichaean view of the world."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/11/AR2007011101573.html

"Only this president, only in this time, only with this dangerous, even messianic certitude, could answer a country demanding an exit strategy from Iraq, by offering an entrance strategy for Iran."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16583889/

While the public focus is on Iraq, the administration is now spending as much time on plans to contain Iran as on a strategy to end Iraq's violence, U.S. officials said."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/11/AR2007011100427.html

Farah Stockman writes in the Boston Globe: "Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice refused yesterday to rule out cross-border US military action against Iran, a day after President Bush pledged in a major speech to 'seek out and destroy' Iranian and Syrian networks providing weapons and training to anti-American forces in Iraq.

"Speaking before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Rice said the United States plans to target the networks inside Iraq, but added, 'obviously the president isn't going to rule anything out to protect our troops.'"
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2007/01/12/rice_wont_rule_out_military_actions_on_iran/

[46zilzal]

this rutabaga nut bar is out of control and has to be stopped.
On MSNBC, Chris Matthews and Snow had a contentious exchange. Via Think Progress:
"MATTHEWS: So he will seek congressional approval before any action against Iran?
"SNOW: You are talking about something we are not even discussing.
"MATTHEWS: Yeah, but you are, Tony, because look at this. 'I recently ordered the deployment of an additional carrier strike group to the region.' Isn't that about Iran?
"SNOW: It, it -- yeah, it is, in part, and what it is is it's saying, look, we are going to make sure that anybody who tries to take aggressive action -- but when Bill Clinton sent a carrier task force into the South China Sea after the North Koreans fired a missile over Japan, that was not as a prelude to war against North Korea. You know how it works.
"MATTHEWS: No, I'm just concerned because, very much in the years, in the months building up to this war in Iraq, we heard a kind of a drumbeat of the dangers from Iraq and the nuclear weaponry and what we're going to do about it, and then gradually we went to war....
"My concern is we're gonna see a ginning up situation whereby we fall in hot pursuit any effort by the Iranians to interfere with Iraq. We take a couple shots at them, they react, then we bomb the hell out of them and hit their nuclear installations without any without any action by Congress. That's the scenario I fear, an extra-constitutional war is what I'm worried about.
"SNOW: Well, you have been watching too many old movies --
"MATTHEWS: No, I've been watching the war in Iraq, is what I've been watching."
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/11/snow-matthews-iran/

[46zilzal]

more from MSNBC:
MATTHEWS: I was amazed, back in the fall of 2001, after the horror of 9/11, not that we went to Afghanistan—that was terribly vital and critical and essential—but when I heard there was talk of going after Iraq, that had nothing to do with 9/11, I was baffled by that. I wasn‘t baffled. I was stunned that someone on the right would have the chutzpah to say, “Oh, let‘s go attack Iraq.”

Now I‘m amazed, after a month of the national sort of consensus evolving, that it‘s time to redeploy to reduce our commitment in that country, for the president to say, not only are we going to put an extra 20,000 GIs in the streets of Baghdad and Anbar Province, but we‘re going to start pushing the Iranians towards some sort of military confrontation. He‘s widening the war; he‘s challenging the American people....

he is also dangerously delusional

CHRIS MATTHEWS: After Tim and Brian, a lot of Americans will go to bed worried tonight. For someone who is willing to go into Iran...Bush still thinks like that. He hasn't changed. He's still on a hair-trigger. Bush still thinks he can go into any country and do what he wants to do. That's frightening...

[46zilzal]

And the idea that we‘re supposed to listen to this president just talk in such a crazy, deluded way, again and again, and say, well, you know, maybe, maybe we can go in to Iran and we can do it—and, then, on top of everything else, the Nixonian “mistakes have been made” language, when we‘re supposed—we are told, oh, he is going to apologize. He‘s going to say he made a mistake. We didn‘t go in with enough troops. He‘s been wrong from start to finish. He‘s wrong about Iran.

then there is this:http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060417fa_fact

already has troops on either side of Iran.

[Tom]

Bad say at the track today?
Early not winning? :D

Niel Young...uh huh. Now there's a respectable source. Petrie dish for a mind, bastion of accomplishment.

"already has troops on either side of Iran."

Not all bad, eh?
They won't be there forever!:rolleyes::kiss:

[46zilzal]

Bad say at the track today?
Early not winning?
Since I only play inner Aqueduct there is no danger of it NOT working to perfection.

I do find it interesting that when others point out what a buffoon this rutabaga is we meet with disdain but in another post you were severely ragging on him.

[Tom]

Since I only play inner Aqueduct there is no danger of it NOT working to perfection.

I do find it interesting that when others point out what a buffoon this rutabaga is we meet with disdain but in another post you were severely ragging on him.

Difference is, zilly, I attack the actions - and acknowledge ones that are correct. YOU start with the man and judge everything from there. I find that the mark of a very small man. Your tantrums clearly define the vast limits of you. There appears to be no limits to your limitations.
:kiss:

[46zilzal]

Paul Craig Roberts, an official in Ronald Reagan's administration has penned a column entitled The Surge: Political Cover or Escalation? wherein he states, "He (Bush) blames defeats on his military commanders, not on his own insane policy. Like Hitler, he protects himself from reality with delusion."

"If Bush ignores US military commanders and expert opinion and accepts the surge option advanced by the delusional neocon allies of Israel’s right-wing Likud Party, US troops will be engulfed in general insurgency. This is why General John Abizaid resigned on January 5. He wants no part of the Republican Party’s sacrifice of US soldiers to sectarian conflict."

"In 1966, president Lyndon Johnson vowed that "we shall stay the course" in America's hopeless struggle with the Viet Cong. It is unfathomable that LBJ's long-discredited war rationale finds expression in this day and age in the delusional assertions of a foreign-policy naïf ensconced in the White House.

With so much more at stake in the Mideast than in the Mekong Delta, the world can no longer afford being held hostage by the absurd co-presidency of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney.?

The question is, what is the world going to do about it?"

[46zilzal]

"Psychologists spot similar behaviour in compulsive gamblers who, when in trouble, increase their bets, hoping for a win that will allow them to leave the table with dignity. They have a word for such thinking: delusional."

[Tom]

"Psychologists spot similar behaviour in compulsive whiners who, when in trouble, increase their posts, hoping for a point that will allow them to leave the forum with dignity. They have a word for such thinking: delusional."

[JustRalph]

Let's Block 46's IP, tell him the score
He's not even in our country anymore
We don't give damn what he has to say
He's gone to Canada, hopefully to Stay

We're not sure he's even a man,
Claims a white coat and a hippocratic Oath
I wish he'd take his head to................ soak

Let's block his IP for being a troll
he screams and posts every Democratic Poll
you'd think he never heard of the U.S.S. Cole

He's so far north his ass is around his head
I am surprised he can get out of bed

What if Canada had an Army or Marines?
Would they let this guy clean their latrines?

Let's Block 46's IP
For hijacking our forum and trolling along
and posting a pathetic Neil Young Song!

[46zilzal]

you'd make a perfect FOX announcer: Whenever you find a message you cannot defend, denounce the messenger.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2152461.ece

[Show Me the Wire]

And the idea that we‘re supposed to listen to this president just talk in such a crazy, deluded way, again and again, and say, well, you know, maybe, maybe we can go in to Iran and we can do it—and, then, on top of everything else, the Nixonian “mistakes have been made” language, when we‘re supposed—we are told, oh, he is going to apologize. He‘s going to say he made a mistake. We didn‘t go in with enough troops. He‘s been wrong from start to finish. He‘s wrong about Iran.

then there is this:http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060417fa_fact

already has troops on either side of Iran.


Don't hold your breath waiting for Murtha and the dems to introduce legislation to bring home the troops.

[Show Me the Wire]

Pelosi and Pelosi's cantaloupes lied.

[PaceAdvantage]

He is "asking" to get impeached as he moves further and further into the role of self professed "KING."

Impeached for what? You have to break the law to get impeached. Just ask Clinton or Nixon (well, you can't ask Nixon, since he's dead...but you get my drift)

Then again, Nixon didn't actually get impeached.....

[PaceAdvantage]

But if evolution relied on the rigid mentality of the PA conservative majority,humans would not exist today.

PA conservative majority? Must be the silent majority....

[PaceAdvantage]

No, they just see through this stupidty that the 09/11 events started from AFGHANISTAN not Iraq.

Who said they started from Afghanistan? What info are you relying on for that conclusion, and more importantly, who ultimately provided that info? The US Gov't? The Bush admin?

Are you putting stock into something the Bush admin claims? Are you putting stock in this Afghanistan info, knowing full well it might have come from the same place as the Iraq WMD's? You don't believe that Iraq had WMD's, but you believe that 9/11 events started "from Afghanistan?????"

So you cherry pick that which you want to believe, even though it might be coming from a source which you distrust and despise?

Interesting conundrum.

[PaceAdvantage]

Now Iran is one country that is way overdue for a spanking from the USA....

[Tom]

Post #77........PA, you are smooooooooth! :jump:

[DJofSD]

Now Iran is one country that is way overdue for a spanking from the USA....

Naw, let Israel do it. Oh, that's right, Israel doesn't have any balls any more.

[46zilzal]

Impeached for what? You have to break the law to get impeached. Just ask Clinton or Nixon (well, you can't ask Nixon, since he's dead...but you get my drift)

Then again, Nixon didn't actually get impeached.....
both brain dead warmongers for the same reason: abuse of power

[46zilzal]

giving the sailor his chance to set up a new strike?
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/14/weekinreview/14kifn.html

[Lefty]

both brain dead warmongers for the same reason: abuse of power
What abuse? GW laid out his case against Iraq and Congress gave him the go ahead. You keep criticizing Bush butr not the terrorists. You know what that makes you?

[46zilzal]

What abuse? GW laid out his case against Iraq and Congress gave him the go ahead. You keep criticizing Bush butr not the terrorists. You know what that makes you?
a criticizer methinks

but out of the rutabaga's mouth comes:"I think history is going to look back and see a lot of ways we could have done things better. No question about it," Bush told "60 Minutes."

[Lefty]

a criticizer methinks

but out of the rutabaga's mouth comes:"I think history is going to look back and see a lot of ways we could have done things better. No question about it," Bush told "60 Minutes."
But you never criticize the enemy. Hmmm...

[46zilzal]

But you never criticize the enemy. Hmmm...
you have my permission to be my surrogate criticizer