Opportunity

[Tom]

We captured at least 21 terroist insurgents in Bahgdad today - maybe more by now. Caught, in the act, on the battlefield.

Break out the waterboards, the thumb screws, the bamboo shoots, the Black & Decker circular saws and power drills....time to see what intel we can literally squeeze out of them.

I see now reason to show any mercy to these guys - get what can and kill them.

[JustRalph]

:ThmbUp:

[singunner]

I thought the thing about terrorists was that they didn't do things "on the battlefield"? Does anyone have a pre-9/11 dictionary I can look it up in?

[Hosshead]

....time to see what intel we can literally squeeze out of them.

I see now reason to show any mercy to these guys - get what can and kill them. Let the Iraqis "interrogate" them.
They speak a language they can understand.

[skate]

yes, and the way thingsa are looking up, why, there, we wont have any bad guys left for the New Troops to find.

gees, this situation may be over Shortly

[46zilzal]

yes, and the way thingsa are looking up, why, there, we wont have any bad guys left for the New Troops to find.

gees, this situation may be over Shortly
body counts did not work in Vietnam either

[skate]

not even close to Nam, is it?

nothing hear says Viet Nam

total different, but hey...ok

[46zilzal]

let's see war based upon overt lies, dropped in the middle of a civil war,,,,,,hmmm

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-11-06-vets-usat_x.htm

[michiken]

... the Black & Decker circular saws
I am not wasting a perfectly good saw blade on anyone! But you can have the old dull ones that would probably inflict more pain.

[kenwoodallpromos]

We captured at least 21 terroist insurgents in Bahgdad today - maybe more by now. Caught, in the act, on the battlefield.

Break out the waterboards, the thumb screws, the bamboo shoots, the Black & Decker circular saws and power drills....time to see what intel we can literally squeeze out of them.

I see now reason to show any mercy to these guys - get what can and kill them.
____________
I heard we will let Bush read the dictionary to them and Kerry tell them jokes!

[PlanB]

We captured at least 21 terroist insurgents in Bahgdad today - maybe more by now. Caught, in the act, on the battlefield.

Break out the waterboards, the thumb screws, the bamboo shoots, the Black & Decker circular saws and power drills....time to see what intel we can literally squeeze out of them.

I see now reason to show any mercy to these guys - get what can and kill them.

Given that they were real terrorists, killing OUR soldiers, and probably Iraqi's too. Given those points I say YES, make them pay.

[singunner]

Given that they were real terrorists, killing OUR soldiers, and probably Iraqi's too. Given those points I say YES, make them pay.

Will you mind when the positions are reversed? I recall an incident where our soldiers went into a village, raped a girl and then killed her and her family. I wonder if you'd approve of the same measures if they'd fallen into "enemy" hands.

I wonder how many people mislabel me as a liberal for my distinctly conservative views of NOT FUCKING WITH OTHER PEOPLE. I'd be a Republican if they hadn't found just as many ways to take my money as the Democrats. As it stands, I never even bothered registering to vote. Since this is a handicapping forum, it's like not betting on that race that you can't seem to find an angle or edge on. Of course, I wonder how many of you actually have the willpower to do that.

[Tom]

If torture will - and it definately HAS - prevent further murders, then chop chop! Splash splash. We prevented an attack on La by waterboarding one of the architects of 9-11. He was not hurt, people were saved, and yet many IMBICILES oppose the waterboarding.

"I wonder if you'd approve of the same measures if they'd fallen into "enemy" hands."

You mean like the innocent people kidnapped and beheaded on video, for no reason at all? Something like that?

[singunner]

So raging soldier hormones counts as a good reason? I asked if you approved of the equal torture of American troops if they fell into enemy hands, not what would actually happen. Now answer the damned question.

If you're not ok with American troops being tortured to get information on troop placement/movement, how can you be ok with the same happening on our side? What possible rationale is there? Or do you even need rationale?

Here I try and argue with logic and you label me an imbecile? Link your article on the attack on LA for me. I hadn't heard about that one.

And if I recall correctly, there were markedly few incidents of people getting kidnapped and beheaded on camera BEFORE we invaded Iraq. When you're the most powerful nation in the world and you decide to wage war on a bunch of people who still think electricity is neat, you can't expect them to wage the same war you do. Bush says the war isn't over, but if it's not, we're left fighting a bunch of guys with guns and maybe a few RPGs and primitive explosives. If you were having war waged against you and that's all you had, would you use traditional tactics?

[rastajenk]

I might be inclined to give that democracy thing a try and see if I liked it.

[singunner]

I don't know of any successful democracy brought on by an invasion. That's more of an empire thing. Yelling at people that they need to be free as you point a gun at them is remarkably ineffective.

[JPinMaryland]

..Since this is a handicapping forum, it's like not betting on that race that you can't seem to find an angle or edge on. Of course, I wonder how many of you actually have the willpower to do that.

Judging by the level of responses here, I guess not many.

[hcap]

Da skate says yes, and the way thingsa are looking up, why, there, we wont have any bad guys left for the New Troops to find.

gees, this situation may be over ShortlyYa needs a spellin' lession.

delusional: D-E-L-U-S-I-O-N-A-L
PS-pass it on to ya unca georgie

[JustRalph]

Singunner, you ever had any escape and evasion training? Like the kind you get from the u.s. military?

Just so you know, they tell you straight out that you are going to get tortured..........and it has happen several times over the last 15 years or more. I suggest you look up what happen to the few troops that were captured in Desert Storm. Especially the females.

[singunner]

THE QUESTION... RAYMOND...

Do you APPROVE of our soldiers being tortured by enemy forces?

ANSWER RAYMOND, JESUS!

[JustRalph]

THE QUESTION... RAYMOND...

Do you APPROVE of our soldiers being tortured by enemy forces?

ANSWER RAYMOND, JESUS!

The question is moot........... it is going to happen. There is no question....

[singunner]

Sorry. You lose. Please play again.

[rastajenk]

I don't know of any successful democracy brought on by an invasion.

Most of Europe. And Japan. South Korea.

[singunner]

Most of Europe? Democracy? That's a hard one to swallow. South Korea was more occupied than invaded, from what I understand. And Japan was not an invasion, but a post-war occupation.

Japan is about the closest example I'll give you out of the lot, but if we were to call both Iraq and Japan invasions, it would only be because we lack a word that recognizes the extreme difference between the two instances.

[Show Me the Wire]

Most of Europe? Democracy? That's a hard one to swallow. South Korea was more occupied than invaded, from what I understand. And Japan was not an invasion, but a post-war occupation.

Japan is about the closest example I'll give you out of the lot, but if we were to call both Iraq and Japan invasions, it would only be because we lack a word that recognizes the extreme difference between the two instances.

By cracky, you may be correct. Let's see Germany, which controlled most of Europe at the time, did not invite Allied troops onto the shores, but we did occupy most of Europe after we invaded the shores. But that is not you point. You probably meant most of Europe had some form of functioning government without U.S. intervention.

And Japan was certainly not and invasion as Japan surrendered before U.S. troops really ever set foot on their soil.

So I will suggest another word to apply, its "liberation". Worked in Europe and worked especially well in Japan. Seems to be working in South Korea and other places the U.S. liberated. So liberation as opposed to invasion may work as a contributing factor in establishng some sort of functioning democracy.

Now Iraq has been liberated from a tyranical dictator.

Check mate game over, thanks for playing and so sorry no consolation prize

[Murph]

Now Iraq has been liberated from a tyranical dictator.

Check mate game over, thanks for playing and so sorry no consolation prize I like your posts SMtW.
You keep falling for the "semantic" bait they are leaving out for you, though.

Keep up the good fight sir!

Murph

[Show Me the Wire]

Murph,

Can you believe we both tossed out that 7 in the maiden race yesterday?

Cost me the pick 4.

[chickenhead]

So liberation as opposed to invasion may work as a contributing factor in establishng some sort of functioning democracy.

I don't really think that is a dividing line at all. Seems to me that the diversity of the country has a lot more to do with what kind of democracy you end up with.

We can look at Japan, S. Korea etc..those are homogenous countries. Democracy seems to work a whole lot better "out-of-the box-new" in homogenous countries, and of course that makes sense.

The US is probably the best example of a diverse democracy..and of course we all know it worked terribly here for a long long time, ask blacks. There is no such thing as a perfect democracy, they are all going to fall short.

I guess my point is...a majority brutally repressing a minority (or many groups of different minorities) is not really unexpected in a democracy, it seems to kind of be the status quo for a diverse society, at least for the first years. In our case about 200 years, maybe more. So a dictator gets replaced by another dictator, just one with hopefully a broader constituency.

It's not clear to me why anyone would expect Iraq to be a whole lot different? Is there any evidence that Arabs are more amenable to peaceful democracy than Europeans? If anything their history supports the opposite point of view.

In other words, perhaps what we're seeing in Iraq right now IS what you should expect, that is their democracy, this is how it functions. The real question then becomes why should we have expected any different?

[Murph]

Ummm .... Yeah!

Looking at the price he paid we were not the only ones. You might have had a clue when "the gentlemen" hammered on my selection of a first time starter in a maiden claiming race. I conceded to CJ's selection as superior to mine in that thread before the running.

In spite of multiple attempts to take the thread off of the topic of first time starters, I think we held our own. My selections finished with run and both of them were claimed from that race.

I was not embarrased by having them both in the money and my opinion happened to agree with others who demonstrated that both selections were deemed to be worth at least $32,000 to someone.

None of the observers considered that was worth commenting on, it appears.

Murph

[Show Me the Wire]

It's not clear to me why anyone would expect Iraq to be a whole lot different? Is there any evidence that Arabs are more amenable to peaceful democracy than Europeans? If anything their history supports the opposite point of view.

In other words, perhaps what we're seeing in Iraq right now IS what you should expect, that is their democracy, this is how it functions. The real question then becomes why should we have expected any different?

You are correct that is how they function we should have not expected anything to be different. That is the same reason negotiatons or diplomacy will not work either.

[Show Me the Wire]

Murph,

Very true, both hores you selected ended up in the money, while mine either quiet or didn' lift a hoof again.

The 9, which was claimed by Art Sherman was the example of why I started the thread about well intentioned FTS, especially in weak races. The 9 ran well, thought he was a winner at the 1/8 pole, but lost to a non-descript experienced starter.

Thanks for contributing. Well off to the otb.

[Tom]

Here I try and argue with logic and you label me an imbecile? Link your article on the attack on LA for me. I hadn't heard about that one.



No, no. Not calling YOU that - I was refering specifially to the LA incident, and the the comments by some AFTER it was stoppped - trying to to calim that torture was not always 100% accurate. When it was just right on. That was right down there with Sec claiming that in spite of ACTUAL attacks and murders, the USSR was a larger threat than ACTUAL terror attacks. I can't call thinking like anyting else.

But I apologize if you thought I meant you - I didn't.

[skate]

Most of Europe? Democracy? That's a hard one to swallow. South Korea was more occupied than invaded, from what I understand. And Japan was not an invasion, but a post-war occupation.

Japan is about the closest example I'll give you out of the lot, but if we were to call both Iraq and Japan invasions, it would only be because we lack a word that recognizes the extreme difference between the two instances.

da, how bout Americas?

[singunner]

Check mate game over, thanks for playing and so sorry no consolation prize

Imitation is the greatest form of flattery. Unfotunately, your imitation seems like a cheap Chinese knockoff.

My original quote said that I was not aware of something, not that it did not exist. Even if it had been a supporting foundation of my argument, I rarely base an argument on a single premise so as to be beaten so easily. Perhaps we'll give you a "check" since you're new to this whole "logic" thing, but I'm afraid the pros don't even blink when they're put in check.

And Tom, I appreciate you not calling me, directly, an imbecile. I must have missed some point in your logic on the USSR vs. Terrorists issue. To me, the USSR and USA each having enough nukes to blow up the entire world and flawed, mutual-destruction failsafe programs in place was a pretty big threat. Didn't we almost destroy all of humanity a couple times back then? I understand if you mean to compare actual lives lost, but I don't think we have to worry about the terrorists trying to destroy the whole world. If they were a super-power with thousands of nukes though, I think we'd be in a much more shakey situation than we were back then.

[singunner]

da, how bout Americas?
I still contend that this is an act. Anyone this stupid would necessarily be incapacitated to the point that they could not access this website. Perhaps it's an alternate avatar to act as a sort of main gauche for another poster. It could alternatively be a satyrical foil after the same fashion. Perhaps a social experiment or someone who feels empowerment by pretending to be so ignorant. I wonder if we could get PA to trace the IP address to another user's account.