Editorial on Hussein's hanging [Archive] - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

highnote

01-09-2007, 12:30 AM

This article makes me wonder if our leaders knew what they were up against when they started this war. The more I learn about Iraq and it's sectarian violence, the more I wonder if these people will ever be able to live in peace. And this is not even taking into account that Israel is next door. Everybody hates everybody over there. That's why people come to America -- to get away from that crap. The last thing I want to do is get dragged into their mess.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/04/AR2007010401347.html

The Hanging: Beyond Travesty

By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, January 5, 2007; Page A17

Of the 6 billion people on this Earth, not one killed more people than Saddam Hussein. And not just killed but tortured and mutilated -- doing so often with his own hands and for pleasure. It is quite a distinction to be the preeminent monster on the planet. If the death penalty was ever deserved, no one was more richly deserving than Saddam Hussein.

For the Iraqi government to have botched both his trial and execution, therefore, and turned monster into victim, is not just a tragedy but a crime -- against the new Iraq that Americans are dying for and against justice itself.

JPinMaryland

01-09-2007, 01:32 AM

you would think this would be the least of our problems, but you never know over there. What seems like nothing might be a huge public relations disaster. Like the Pope talking about muslims, or BUsh's call for crusade, it resonates badly.

As I thought about the war and was thinking about parallels to Vietnam I had wondered whether we would see parallels to each chapter in Vietnam. E.g. the tet Offensive, or My Lai.

SUre enough as time went on I think we saw some version of it. The siege of Fallujah or the aftermath that was akin to Tet, the idea that this thing is far from over. And then Abu Garaib, I guess that was akin to My Lai. At least to me it said there was an american cover up to all this. Others will disagree.

I didnt know if Saddams hanging fit into that, but I think it does. Its' the photo by Eddie Adams of the So Vietnam officer blowing off the head of that VC in Saigon. The idea of rough justice, the showing of the execution itself.

What remains to be seen is that version of the vietnamese girl that was napalmed and the people on the choppers trying to get out. I dont know what will happen but I just think about and it bothers me some.

delayjf

01-09-2007, 11:56 AM

Ah, yes the Tet Offensive - if only we could get the Insurgents to come out and play like the VC.

Secretariat

01-09-2007, 01:13 PM

Show Me the Wire

01-09-2007, 01:29 PM

JP,

I don't see the same parallels in the Hussein killing or My Lai and Abu Ghraib except Calley stated he ws just following orders as did the guards at Abu Ghraib.

I see parallels more on the manipulation of the public with phrases like if we dont' fight the commies/terrorists over there we'll be fighting them on our own shores, and the under-reporting of casualty figures. One difference is they did show the dead servicemen coffins on return whereas this time it is forbidden because it might make the people realize that war results in death and it is not a pretty picture.

The terrorists have come to our shores, 9/11 and prior attempts at destruction of the twin towers. So we don't have to worry about them coming they ARE here.

No wonder you keep asking about the nexus of Iraq and terrorism. You are in denial of actual facts. This is a FACT and not a chatchy phrase, the terorrists have invaded our shores and are planning to do it again.

kenwoodallpromos

01-09-2007, 03:07 PM

Indulto

01-09-2007, 03:53 PM

The terrorists have come to our shores, 9/11 and prior attempts at destruction of the twin towers. So we don't have to worry about them coming they ARE here.

No wonder you keep asking about the nexus of Iraq and terrorism. You are in denial of actual facts. This is a FACT and not a chatchy phrase, the terorrists have invaded our shores and are planning to do it again.Yes, Virginia, there is a Terrorist and they are here.

So much for fighting them there so we don't have to fight them here. Was Buffalo a mine field or a Springfield? :bang:

Your continued insistence on linking 911 to Iraq despite Bush's statement to the contrary appears a little on the compulsive side. ;)

Show Me the Wire

01-09-2007, 04:00 PM

Yes, Virginia, there is a Terrorist and they are here.

So much for fighting them there so we don't have to fight them here. Was Buffalo a mine field or a Springfield? :bang:

Your continued insistence on linking 911 to Iraq despite Bush's statement to the contrary appears a little on the compulsive side. ;)

Yes, I like repeating the same answer to the same question :bang: It doesn't hurt yet.

BTW I think we have to fight them there, as well as here. The President was incorrect on that point.

highnote

01-09-2007, 04:46 PM

I love it when these anarchists pretend to be resonable with statgements like "deserved the death penalty more than anyone else"- then reveals their true attitude of hating everything American and cheering for anarchy.

I didn't get that from the editorial. What I got was that he was saying we are over there trying to do good things, but they don't seem to get that. He is saying that Hussein's hanging was a sectarian killing. True, Hussein was sentenced to die, but should not have been a sectarian killing.

kenwoodallpromos

01-09-2007, 05:45 PM

I didn't get that from the editorial. What I got was that he was saying we are over there trying to do good things, but they don't seem to get that. He is saying that Hussein's hanging was a sectarian killing. True, Hussein was sentenced to die, but should not have been a sectarian killing.
This writher has no clue what he is talking about. One sentence is accusation of sectarianism and the next is "This execution was not sectarian" "Maliki did not sign the execition order". He flip flops worse than any writer I have ever read. Then he says the execution was a crime- but never acknowledges that the people who shouted and took pictures are under arrest, or that secarian violence has decreased since the hanging.
The only thing I can figure out thst he says that I agree with is the goal seems to be ethnic cleaning against the Iraqi Sunnis.

kenwoodallpromos

01-09-2007, 05:48 PM

Secretariat

01-09-2007, 06:37 PM

The terrorists have come to our shores, 9/11 and prior attempts at destruction of the twin towers. So we don't have to worry about them coming they ARE here.

No wonder you keep asking about the nexus of Iraq and terrorism. You are in denial of actual facts. This is a FACT and not a chatchy phrase, the terorrists have invaded our shores and are planning to do it again.

Can you name one Iraqi attack on the US , or one Iraqi terrorist who has comitted a terrorist act in the US? How many IEDS have exploded in the US recently? You are the one in denial of facts.

Show Me the Wire

01-09-2007, 06:57 PM

highnote

01-09-2007, 07:01 PM

sec:

Doesn't matter terrorism is the root problem and nations that sponsor terrorism need to be dealt with. Iraq sponsored terrorism. Do you remember, " You are with us or against us."? Iraq was against us and with the terrorist.

Your assertion that the actual terrorists that committed the 9/11 attack did not come from Iraq is inconsequential in the war against terrorism.

Just curious, what other terrorists attacks have occured in continentail U.S. besides the WTC in, say, the past 30 years? Weren't there some Cubans who blew up some bombs in the U.S.?

Show Me the Wire

01-09-2007, 07:14 PM

Just curious, what other terrorists attacks have occured in continentail U.S. besides the WTC in, say, the past 30 years? Weren't there some Cubans who blew up some bombs in the U.S.?

Really not the issue I responded to. The poster used the threat of fighting terrorism as an example of acatch phrase and realting its use to the catch phrases regarding fighting communism before communism reached our shores.

My reply pointed out the fallacy of that statement as terrorism has already reached our shores, it is a fact not a catchy little phrase.

So I will not respond to any more questions about other attacks than 9/11. 9/11 is enough to prove terrorists attacked our shores and it is not a catch phrase to conjire up an imaginary enemy. Communists were the imaginary boogey men, while terrorists are real boogey man.

kenwoodallpromos

01-09-2007, 07:42 PM

highnote

01-09-2007, 08:18 PM

Really not the issue I responded to.

Yeah, I know that. I shouldn't have used your quote. Not even sure, now, why I did????

I was just curious about other attacks. I seem to recall some. I think Ken gave a link. Thanks. K

RE Link

I knew about the Bush assassination attempt. But that happened in Kuwait. I was wondering if there were other terrorists attacks beside the 9/11 and other WTC attacks.

Anyone recall any?

js

Secretariat

01-09-2007, 08:25 PM

Really not the issue I responded to. The poster used the threat of fighting terrorism as an example of acatch phrase and realting its use to the catch phrases regarding fighting communism before communism reached our shores.

My reply pointed out the fallacy of that statement as terrorism has already reached our shores, it is a fact not a catchy little phrase.

So I will not respond to any more questions about other attacks than 9/11. 9/11 is enough to prove terrorists attacked our shores and it is not a catch phrase to conjire up an imaginary enemy. Communists were the imaginary boogey men, while terrorists are real boogey man.

Since you avoid waht was asked, in the continental US, probably the McVeigh bombing in Oklahoma City was the largest terrorist act in the last 30 years. McVeigh was an ex-military man with ties to the Christian Identity movement.

If Communists were the imaginary boogey men then we spent an awful lot of money worrying about them. Frankly, the Russians and Chinese are the real big threats to our nation and have the real WMD's - nuclear weapons pointed directly at us rather than a bunch of guys with box cutters.

Terrorists are a threat, but with good security they are not the boogey men as you say compared to say China deciding to invade Taiwan and how we'd deal with that.

Your focus on 911 is important, and Iraq' non-connection to the 911 attack is also important.

Indulto

01-09-2007, 09:08 PM

Really not the issue I responded to. The poster used the threat of fighting terrorism as an example of acatch phrase and realting its use to the catch phrases regarding fighting communism before communism reached our shores.

My reply pointed out the fallacy of that statement as terrorism has already reached our shores, it is a fact not a catchy little phrase.

So I will not respond to any more questions about other attacks than 9/11. 9/11 is enough to prove terrorists attacked our shores and it is not a catch phrase to conjire up an imaginary enemy. Communists were the imaginary boogey men, while terrorists are real boogey man.Speaking of catch phrases, "what we have here is a failure to" cogitate, :D and to properly perceive "bogeymen," much less reality.

Like communists, some terrorists are/were greater physical threats to us than others. Obviously Poland did not represent the same danger to us as Russia. Why do we seldom hear the phrase Chinese Communists" anymore even though they pose a greater economic threat to us than all the oil-producing countries put together? Similarly, the 911 terrorists were in a league of their own.

It's probable that such sophisticated planning and organization implemented by their most capable and committed members, cannot be readily duplicated by Ai Qaeda or any other Muslim fundamentalist group, but we have to be ready to make it as difficult as possible for them, as well as to effectively deal with the aftermath regardless of scope. The same is true for groups with different motivation, e.g., the Red Army, and we have to be able to do it HERE whether or not we do it THERE.

Show Me the Wire

01-09-2007, 09:09 PM

Since you avoid waht was asked, in the continental US, probably the McVeigh bombing in Oklahoma City was the largest terrorist act in the last 30 years. McVeigh was an ex-military man with ties to the Christian Identity movement.

If Communists were the imaginary boogey men then we spent an awful lot of money worrying about them. Frankly, the Russians and Chinese are the real big threats to our nation and have the real WMD's - nuclear weapons pointed directly at us rather than a bunch of guys with box cutters.

Terrorists are a threat, but with good security they are not the boogey men as you say compared to say China deciding to invade Taiwan and how we'd deal with that.

Your focus on 911 is important, and Iraq' non-connection to the 911 attack is also important.

The McVeigh issue has been debated over and over, he is not a foreign national that came to our shores. Case closed.

I agree with you we need good security, build a wall on our southern porous border, issue special national driver licenses to all foreign nationals that need to be updated every 8 months, inspect evey piece of cargo coming into our ports a maybe a few others.

I agree China is a threat and having been posting so for many years. I expect the dems to put high tariff taxes on Chinese imports for economic and national secutity reasons. Stifle their economy to stop te build-up of their military complex and to bring jobs back to our shores to boost our economy.

The last Congress was ineffective in these areas and I expect the dems to right these wrongs.

Show Me the Wire

01-09-2007, 09:13 PM

Indulto:

Read my post to sec, I address my feelings on China and the last ineffectual Congress.

Show Me the Wire

01-09-2007, 09:15 PM

I think bogeyman is located on the Golf course.

Tom

01-09-2007, 09:52 PM

Terrorists are a threat, but with good security they are not the boogey men as you say compared to say China deciding to invade Taiwan and how we'd deal with that.

How many Americans did the Russians or Chinnese murder?
How many embassies did they bomb?
How many military barracks did they bomb?
How many airplanes did they hijack?
How many Navy ships did they bomb?

Based on history of the 1990s to the present, terrorists have proven to be
far more an actual threat to the US than the USSR or China ever was.

JustRalph

01-09-2007, 11:40 PM

Can you name one Iraqi attack on the US , or one Iraqi terrorist who has comitted a terrorist act in the US? How many IEDS have exploded in the US recently? You are the one in denial of facts.

I seem to remember the president pledging that we would attack countries that harbor terrorists, hunt them down no matter where they reside or try to hide. I guess Bush doing what he said he would is a foreign concept to the left.

Secretariat

01-10-2007, 12:19 AM

I seem to remember the president pledging that we would attack countries that harbor terrorists, hunt them down no matter where they reside or try to hide. I guess Bush doing what he said he would is a foreign concept to the left.

JR,

Not the case if you look at the list of his own administration's list of state sponsored terrorist nations.

Tom,

I disagree. I think the Cold War and the number of nuclear warheads pointed at us by Russia and China pose a much greater threat to our nationall security than guys with box cutters getting through when NORAD took the day off.

Secretariat

01-10-2007, 12:25 AM

The McVeigh issue has been debated over and over, he is not a foreign national that came to our shores. Case closed.

I agree with you we need good security, build a wall on our southern porous border, issue special national driver licenses to all foreign nationals that need to be updated every 8 months, inspect evey piece of cargo coming into our ports a maybe a few others.

I agree China is a threat and having been posting so for many years. I expect the dems to put high tariff taxes on Chinese imports for economic and national secutity reasons. Stifle their economy to stop te build-up of their military complex and to bring jobs back to our shores to boost our economy.

The last Congress was ineffective in these areas and I expect the dems to right these wrongs.

Sweet's question in his post did not delineate foregin terrrorists from American citizen terrorists.

I agree with you on some of the others except the fence. I think the intention is good, but I think it's another super collider project throwaway of billions of dollars of tax money, and most likely they'll just hire improved tunnelers. Agree about the ports. As to the driver licenses, I beleive in the use of a National ID Card. There's lots of potential for fraud on it, but a national database with employer internent photo id checking is a better long term expense than a fence IMO.

highnote

01-10-2007, 04:28 AM

Sweet's question in his post did not delineate foregin terrrorists from American citizen terrorists.

You're right. I didn't. I have never thought to define acts of violence and bombings by U.S. citizens on targets inside the U.S. to be terrorist attacks. I thought of them more as acts by anarchists. But I see your point.

So let me ask it again, please.

How many foreign terrorists have attacked inside any of the 50 United States and it's territories other than the ones responsible for 9/11 and earlier WTC attacks?

Secretariat

01-10-2007, 01:02 PM

You're right. I didn't. I have never thought to define acts of violence and bombings by U.S. citizens on targets inside the U.S. to be terrorist attacks. I thought of them more as acts by anarchists. But I see your point.

So let me ask it again, please.

How many foreign terrorists have attacked inside any of the 50 United States and it's territories other than the ones responsible for 9/11 and earlier WTC attacks?

This is what I found. There haven't been many directly within the US by foreign terrorists. I still find it amazing that outside of the 1920 incident there were no terrorist communist attacks on the US.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001454.html

highnote

01-10-2007, 01:38 PM

This is what I found. There haven't been many directly within the US by foreign terrorists. I still find it amazing that outside of the 1920 incident there were no terrorist communist attacks on the US.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001454.html

That's what I thought. No attacks in the U.S. by foreigners, other than 9/11, since the 1975 Puerto Rican attacks.

lsbets

01-10-2007, 01:55 PM

That's what I thought. No attacks in the U.S. by foreigners, other than 9/11, since the 1975 Puerto Rican attacks.

What about the first WTC bombing? There are also many who believe, based on a large amount of evidence that holds up to scrutiny a lot better than the 9/11 conspiracy theories, that the OKC bombings were done in concert with foreign terrorists.

Tom

01-10-2007, 06:43 PM

That's what I thought. No attacks in the U.S. by foreigners, other than 9/11, since the 1975 Puerto Rican attacks.

What things have gone on since 9-11 that might be a reason for that?

* Waterboarding
* Wiretapping suspected calls

Hmmmmmm.

Tom

01-10-2007, 06:45 PM

JR,

Tom,

I disagree. I think the Cold War and the number of nuclear warheads pointed at us by Russia and China pose a much greater threat to our nationall security than guys with box cutters getting through when NORAD took the day off.

My GOD man, what do you smoke????

I listed a series of actual events that results in deaths of Americans.
Yet you think they are less seve that what might have happened dring the cold war???

The safeguard during the cold war was this - what did the USSR and China have that the terrorists do not?

Co-ordinates.

Secretariat

01-10-2007, 06:54 PM

- what did the USSR and China have that the terrorists do not?

Co-ordinates.

No, Tom. Actual WMD's... Big ones. Still do.

Tom

01-10-2007, 07:16 PM

No, Tom. Actual WMD's... Big ones. Still do.

And again, I say to you...potential threats and ACTUAL threats are two different things. We have suffered attacks for well almost two decades.
did you miss that?

highnote

01-10-2007, 10:41 PM

What about the first WTC bombing? There are also many who believe, based on a large amount of evidence that holds up to scrutiny a lot better than the 9/11 conspiracy theories, that the OKC bombings were done in concert with foreign terrorists.

ls,

You are correct. The first WTC bombing was done by foreigners, I understand that. I said that earlier in the thread, I just omitted that from my reply because I had already mentioned it and didn't think I needed to be redundant.

FYI -- here is what I wrote in my 1:02pm post:

So let me ask it again, please.

How many foreign terrorists have attacked inside any of the 50 United States and it's territories other than the ones responsible for 9/11 and earlier WTC attacks?

So we know that foreigners attacked the WTC before and on 9/11. A Puerto Rican group attacked back in the 70s.

Other than those attacks by foreign terrorists in the continental U.S., are there any others that have not been mentioned in this thread (I'm not going to rename all the ones I've already named)?

thx,
js

lsbets

01-10-2007, 10:55 PM

Other than those attacks by foreign terrorists in the continental U.S., are there any others that have not been mentioned in this thread (I'm not going to rename all the ones I've already named)?

thx,
js

Oklahoma City, McVeigh was enlisted as their fall guy, and performed brilliantly. The evidence of Middle Eastern funding and supervision is too compelling to ignore, although it appears the Clinton Justice Department did just that, but the reasons why would be the topic for another thread.

JustRalph

01-11-2007, 03:54 AM

What about U.S. embassies........ I suppose those don't count

highnote

01-11-2007, 04:03 AM

What about U.S. embassies........ I suppose those don't count

I suppose it depends on what you mean by " don't count".

Exhibit A -- I was curious if there were any terrorist attacks carried out by foreignors inside any of the 50 United States other than the ones that were carried out in 1975 by Puerto Rican nationals and all of the WTC attacks and 9/11 attacks.

I'm well aware of the attacks on US embassies located in foreign countries by foreign terrorists.

I'm interested in knowing if the list of the ones in Exhibit A can be expanded.