Horsestreet pars

[mr.lansky]

can anyone help me and give me their strong ( if any) opnion on horsestreet pars? are they worth getting? are they useful and helpful? thank you

[Suff]

Another Birthday present for Ole Schwartzy.

:jump:

[Dick Schmidt]

I've watched Dave create pars and he takes more care than I would with open heart surgery (aren't you glad I'm not your surgeon?). Anyway, most of the time he lets the computer do the grunt work using every race run in North America, but if it has a problem, he dives in and gets his hands dirty. These are the best pars on the planet and if you use pars and bet more than $2 a week, buy them. The average player couldn't match these pars for one circuit in a week.

Dick
Show me a man with both feet firmly on the ground, and I'll show you a
man who can't get his pants off.

[maxwell]

Has anyone tried the pp's from TSN?

I'm in the dark as to how so many publications ( DRF, Horsestreet, Cynthia ) can come up with different ways of tracking the same info. I assume Beyer & Co. do not get into pace pars so they are slightly different.

I am sure Horsestreet is excellent but what is the basic difference? - without giving away the farm, of course.

I enjoy the paper version of the DRF ( I love to doodle ) and I'm comfortable with the Beyers and related info the Form provides. The problem with the paper version is the fact that I am stuck with tracks that don't interest me. Why pay for wasted paper? With TSN, I would be saving $3.50 a day. I'm just not sure how their numbers stack up with the other publications. Do the other publications offer the same type of pp's?

I feel like I'm stuck back in the 80's with the Bay City Rollers. And I hate plaid. :)

[Light]

At one point I was interested in purchasing them until I realized they do not include pars for Fillies and Mares.

[Red Knave]

... until I realized they do not include pars for Fillies and Mares.There was reference to this in the '06 pars and Dave stated that he would study this and would have a better answer as to what adjustments to make for females.

[daydreamer]

can anyone tell me when will 2007 horsestreet pars come out? is the track variant used come from drf daily var. or other source.

[Dave Schwartz]

Target for release this year is a little later than usual because of the (increased work): February 15th, 2007.

We use DRF variant numbers (from the charts).


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[tupper]

Maxwell,

I hope the following doesn't sound like a commercial.

Starting today and running through February 14th, Brisnet.com is giving away their the Ultimate-PPs-with-Comments: http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/trk_report.cgi?uwc

It looks like these downloads are free and unlimited and available for every track that Brisnet covers. These files are PDFs, and can be printed.

One probably has to sign-up for a free membership to take advantage of this offer. I think that they demand sensitive info (social security #, street address, phone number, credit card, etc.), even though one is essentially just obtaining racing forms.

They also sell other products and one can download free software. Evidently, one of the free programs converts a standard DRF file (and many other PP data files) into several of their PDF products or into one's own custom past performance sheets. This program is Custom PP Generator: http://www.brisnet.com/cgi-bin/dynamic.cgi?page=custompp
It runs on various versions of Windows.

The Brisnet DRFs are $1 per track and the TSN DRFs are $0.50 per track. The Custom PP Generator program will probably work with the TSN DRFs.

Hope this helps.

[raybo]

Has anyone tried the pp's from TSN?

I'm in the dark as to how so many publications ( DRF, Horsestreet, Cynthia ) can come up with different ways of tracking the same info. I assume Beyer & Co. do not get into pace pars so they are slightly different.

I am sure Horsestreet is excellent but what is the basic difference? - without giving away the farm, of course.

I enjoy the paper version of the DRF ( I love to doodle ) and I'm comfortable with the Beyers and related info the Form provides. The problem with the paper version is the fact that I am stuck with tracks that don't interest me. Why pay for wasted paper? With TSN, I would be saving $3.50 a day. I'm just not sure how their numbers stack up with the other publications. Do the other publications offer the same type of pp's?

I feel like I'm stuck back in the 80's with the Bay City Rollers. And I hate plaid. :)

I've have used Bris data files for years and they are the same as TSN's, as far as the numbers, and both come from, or are derived from, the DRF. Bris DRF files are $1, whereas TSN has the $.50 file. Both include DRF times, DRF speed rating, variant, etc, as well as proprietary speed and pace ratings and pars. I don't know how the pars are calculated or how they compare to the more expensive pars out there. I use them as a base only, to determine how far off, and in which direction, each horse is from that base, for basic, very basic, comparisons between horses' capabilities, and to attempt to see form cycles better.

The only reason, that I can see, for pace pars is in equalizing, or attempting to equalize, different tracks, and to better recognize true changes in class, either up or down.

Bias, is the attempt to establish the speed of a surface.

Runners coming from different tracks, surfaces, distances, classes, etc. is why we have pars, which, if entirely accurate, would allow precise comparisons of runners regardless of where they have been running, against whom, at what distance, on which surface, etc. Of course, all this stuff is usually based on track records over a period of time and does not take into account that some tracks have faster, or slower, horses running on them, creating the "elusion" that the surface is faster or slower than other tracks. True, accurate equalization between tracks, surfaces, distances, etc, in my opinion, is not going to happen anytime in the near future.

Many here create there own pars and biases or use commercially obtainable software for their biases and pars, both speed and pace, and I'm sure some do a better job than Bris. They all are, probably, "in the ballpark" and if one can establish an accurate form cycle for most animals in a race he should be able to do an adequate job of handicapping.

My experience has been that when I miss-handicap horses, 9 times out of 10, it was a result of missing the form cycle on them. Unexplained improvement or decline in performance, when there is no other evidence available that was simply overlooked, is usually explained by an improvement or decline in "form". It has always been my contension that "form" determines all the other numbers (pace figures and speed figures).

I feel like I'm stuck back in the 80's with the Bay City Rollers. And I hate plaid. :)[/QUOTE]

[Light]

. Both include .... variant, etc,

TSN .50 files do not include a TV.

[JimG]

TSN .50 files do not include a TV.

or a Class Rating or a Bris Prime Power Rating.

[maxwell]

Thanks guys for all the great info.

[tupper]

JimG,

Do the Bris DRF files include class ratings of past races?

The Bris race ratings and class ratings appear in their Ultimate PP's (PDF), and I would guess that Bris include these figures in their more pricey data files.

-Dale

[JimG]

JimG,

Do the Bris DRF files include class ratings of past races?

The Bris race ratings and class ratings appear in their Ultimate PP's (PDF), and I would guess that Bris include these figures in their more pricey data files.

-Dale

Hi Dale,

The class ratings are in the Bris drf files. ($1) per file.

Jim

[tupper]

Hi Dale,

The class ratings are in the Bris drf files. ($1) per file.

Jim

Thanks, JimG

If these class ratings are decent, they would probably simplify the class analysis in my database/spreadsheet.

I was unable to locate them in the Bris DRFs. Do you know which fields include these figures?

Also, does anyone have any comments on the quality of the Bris race ratings and class ratings?

-Dale

[JimG]

Thanks, JimG

I was unable to locate them in the Bris DRFs. Do you know which fields include these figures?

Also, does anyone have any comments on the quality of the Bris race ratings and class ratings?

-Dale

I'm not sure how long they have been a part of the file. I am sure they are in the file. Perhaps someone with specific knowledge of the file(are you out there BillW) can chime in. My apologies to Dave S for discussing this in an HSH thread.

Jim

[BillW]

I'm not sure how long they have been a part of the file. I am sure they are in the file. Perhaps someone with specific knowledge of the file(are you out there BillW) can chime in.

Jim

It's been a long time since I fooled with Bris files but the formats are the same for the regular files and the multicap files. Some data in the regular files are not documented in the regular file format document. You can find the documentation in the multicaps file doc.

Check these locations:

826- 835 BRIS Race Rating NUMERIC 999.9 5
836- 845 BRIS Class Rating NUMERIC 999.9 5

Bill

[raybo]

JimG,

Do the Bris DRF files include class ratings of past races?

The Bris race ratings and class ratings appear in their Ultimate PP's (PDF), and I would guess that Bris include these figures in their more pricey data files.

-Dale

To my knowledge, unless recently added, the DRF files do not have RR or CR class ratings. The .MCP files are the cheapest ones (from Bris anyway) that have RR and CR. They cost $5 per card as a regular member or $2 as a silver member($30 minimum per month) or gold member($100 minimum per month). They may have added them recently but I doubt it. The more data you want the more it's going to cost you, unfortunately.

[raybo]

To my knowledge, unless recently added, the DRF files do not have RR or CR class ratings. The .MCP files are the cheapest ones (from Bris anyway) that have RR and CR. They cost $5 per card as a regular member or $2 as a silver member($30 minimum per month) or gold member($100 minimum per month). They may have added them recently but I doubt it. The more data you want the more it's going to cost you, unfortunately.

This is the only reason I don't use the DRF files or the $.50 TSN files.

[raybo]

or a Class Rating or a Bris Prime Power Rating.


Field #251 in the DRF files is Bris Prime Power.

[JimG]

Field #251 in the DRF files is Bris Prime Power.

My original reply was concerning the 50 cent tsn file, not the bris file.

[JimG]

This is the only reason I don't use the DRF files or the $.50 TSN files.

The bris $1 drf file does have the class rating. See BillW's reply earlier in this thread.

[raybo]

The bris $1 drf file does have the class rating. See BillW's reply earlier in this thread.

Ok, I just spent a dollar hoping you were right that the DRF files have added the RR and CR ratings. Alas, they have not added either of them. Darnit!!

[BillW]

The bris $1 drf file does have the class rating. See BillW's reply earlier in this thread.

Sorry for the confusion Jim - I didn't have a file to confirm it. I was simply pointing out where they would be if they were there. I had/have no idea if they are included, although, in general I do know there is data in the files that they do not document in the format documents.

[raybo]

My original reply was concerning the 50 cent tsn file, not the bris file.

The Bris files and the TSN files are the same structure, some are called something a little different is all. TSN $.50 files do not have RR or CR or Prime Power ratings, yet. Maybe the fact that Bris DRF files give you the Prime Power Rating and TSN $.50 files don't is the reason they only cost $.50?

[JimG]

Ok, I just spent a dollar hoping you were right that the DRF files have added the RR and CR ratings. Alas, they have not added either of them. Darnit!!

My apologies. The software I use incorporates the drf file and has a class rating. It is evidently not the bris class rating but a "rating derived from the Bris pars found in each running line of a horse's past performance record".

Jim

[raybo]

My apologies. The software I use incorporates the drf file and has a class rating. It is evidently not the bris class rating but a "rating derived from the Bris pars found in each running line of a horse's past performance record".

Jim

No problem, I had to see for myself because I would switch from the $2.00 .MCP files to the $1 DRF files if they had RR and CR.

I know that the speed pars are included in the running lines. Sure would be nice to have the pace pars included also.

[forecast]

Having used pars generated by no less than Tom Brohamer, I can personally vouge for Dave's Horsestreet Pars; they're excellent.

Forecast

[daydreamer]

Dave Schwartz:Can I order your Horsestreet pars this week? If so, how much and what is the mailing address or phone number.

[Red Knave]

Dave Schwartz:Can I order your Horsestreet pars this week? If so, how much and what is the mailing address or phone number.
Go to Dave's website http://www.horsestreet.com/ and go to the Products page. Instructions for ordering are there.