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ponypro
01-05-2007, 10:10 AM
ON a superfecta , is the threshold for a signer $1200 for 1$ and also is it better to do ten-ten cent tickets versus the $1. I hope that question makes sense.

Thanks in advance

boomman
01-05-2007, 10:25 AM
Pony: Here are the IRS guidelines: You will have to sign if the amount collected is 300 X your base bet AND over $600. So you positively want to play dime supers instead of $1 units because in order for you to have to sign on a dime super, the $1 super has to pay over $6000. Also, if you hit an amount over $5000 (again the 300x1 base bet amount applies) then the IRS takes out a mandatory 28% up front + whatever state taxes apply for the host state that took the bet up to a maximum of 4%. The same rule applies for trifectas, ALWAYS play the $1 units as it allows you to catch a 599X1 shot without signing as opposed to 300X1 if you are playing in $2 increments..as for the $1200 you're thinking of I believe that only applies to slot play-no such regulation of $1200 in horse racing-Hope this clears it up! Boom

rrbauer
01-05-2007, 10:26 AM
ON a superfecta , is the threshold for a signer $1200 for 1$ and also is it better to do ten-ten cent tickets versus the $1. I hope that question makes sense.

Thanks in advance

Threshold for a signer is $600 total and the winning ticket has to be at least 300-1. You can do the math for the 10-cents vs. $1 ticket denomination.

1st time lasix
01-05-2007, 10:37 AM
maybe you should be asking if you will get caught {or if it is worth it} paying someone a percentage to cash the "signer" for you.

boomman
01-05-2007, 10:47 AM
Lasix wrote: maybe you should be asking if you will get caught {or if it is worth it} paying someone a percentage to cash the "signer" for you.

Pony: Don't even think about using "10 percenters"! Lots of volunteers out there, but many folks in jail too! IRS has really cracked down on this practice in recent years, even going as far as sending agents to racetracks to watch for the "volunteers" who hang out near the cashier lines offering to sign an IRS tax form (W2G 1099-misc) when they suspect someone has hit a big one-Boom

ponypro
01-05-2007, 11:36 AM
Thanks !That answers my question exactly.

My question wasnt having others cash the ticket for me like further in thread implied

K9Pup
01-05-2007, 11:47 AM
Also remember that you can deduct gambling losses up to the amount of wins reported if using the long form.

Overlay
01-05-2007, 04:24 PM
Also remember that you can deduct gambling losses up to the amount of wins reported if using the long form.

Provided that you have documentation of the losses, of course.

Trax21
01-05-2007, 09:42 PM
Had a good experience with a $600.60 winning trifecta ticket ($2) back in 1996. I was in Louisiana visiting some friends and went to LAD on Derby day. Grindstone caught Cavonnier at the wire and I found myself holding a winning tri. After the results were posted and the excitement died down I said to one of my friends "Damn, I'm going to have to deal with the IRS on this because of a few cents over $600.

My friend then told me that there are people who can take care of IRS tickets for a fee. I said that I had heard of something like that and asked how it worked. He said that one of the locals could probably point me in the right direction and the going rate is 10%.

I thought about it and said that I didn't think it could be legal and there's no way I'm going to hand over my ticket to a stranger. I'll just take the hit.

As I handed the teller my winning ticket, I was pleasantly surprised when she counted out the 600 bucks and said nice hit! No IRS signer!

Later, on the way home, I finally decided that the ticket was not actually 300-1 because the $600.60 includes my original $2.00. Since the win is $598.60, that's 299.3 - 1. I've never had another payoff just barely over $600 and assume that's the case.

It paid to be an honest Boy Scout on that day.

trigger
01-05-2007, 10:10 PM
Keep in mind if your state has an income tax, they usually don't allow the losing ticket deduction.

Paging
01-06-2007, 03:32 AM
Later, on the way home, I finally decided that the ticket was not actually 300-1 because the $600.60 includes my original $2.00. Since the win is $598.60, that's 299.3 - 1. I've never had another payoff just barely over $600 and assume that's the case.


On all my W2-G's it lists "gross winnings" no where does it make mention of "net winnings" or the cost of the ticket.

BillW
01-06-2007, 04:08 AM
On all my W2-G's it lists "gross winnings" no where does it make mention of "net winnings" or the cost of the ticket.

Trax is correct. It's not the value of the ticket that mattered, but the fact that it was under 300-1.

Paging
01-06-2007, 04:17 AM
What if a $1 tri pays $447.60.

If you were to punch out a winning $1 tri ticket and got back $447.60 - there is no W2-G.

However, what if one were to punch out a $3 tri ticket - therefore having the tri three times on one ticket for a return of $1342.80.


Would such a ticket result in a W2-G?

BillW
01-06-2007, 04:28 AM
What if a $1 tri pays $447.60.

If you were to punch out a winning $1 tri ticket and got back $447.60 - there is no W2-G.

However, what if one were to punch out a $3 tri ticket - therefore having the tri three times on one ticket for a return of $1342.80.


Would such a ticket result in a W2-G?

The 2 criteria that must be met are at least 300-1 and at least $600. The $3 ticket would result in a W2-G, the $1 ticket would not. Note that the threshold for withholding is $5,000 (and the 300-1 condition). Less that $5,000 there is no withholding.

BillW
01-06-2007, 04:53 AM
Here is the W-2G instructions ...


http://www.irs.gov/instructions/iw2g/ar02.html#d0e65

rrbauer
01-06-2007, 09:54 AM
Keep in mind if your state has an income tax, they usually don't allow the losing ticket deduction.

Not sure about "usually". I can name several that do allow it as a misc deduction just like the feds; and, if you run it through a schedule-C, "business" form then it's just another cost of doing business.

linrom1
01-06-2007, 01:30 PM
The key distinction to note here is that it's not the amount that one spends on a bet, but, the 300x1 threshold on amount wagered. So a $100 win bet that pays $2000 is not reportable, however, $1 P-4 that costs $148 and pays $800 is.

Pell Mell
01-09-2007, 03:50 PM
One other item, I forget exactly how it went, but I have been asked numerous times if I had any identical bets. I was told by a very smart teller that the law says they are supposed to ask. She also told me that when making identical $1 bets that might pay the limit to stagger the bets so as not to get them in consecutive order.

1st time lasix
01-10-2007, 01:48 PM
Understand the going rate for signers at some venues is 5%.. not 10%. Not that i would ever consider it. Perhaps Boom ought to stick to shamelessly promoting his uneventful book...rather than warning us all with his morals. It is against the law not to wear your seatbelt, to use a bookie or use your cell phone while driving in some states as well.

Indulto
01-10-2007, 06:24 PM
Of course everything we post is subject to interpretation. My impression was that the Boomed words of doom were intended to help us gauge the risk/reward involved as opposed to delivering a moral judgement.

Who here would argue that withholding is acceptable, fair, or even makes any sense? One can always ignore a bad law if one is willing to pay the penalty if one is caught, but if I were trapped in a snowstorm of signers, I'd join/start a Horseplayers Guild and try to get the law changed. :D

Alydarwasbest
01-11-2007, 04:48 PM
I believe you actually must hit a ticket that pays $602.00 for the IRS to ask you to sign. I hit an exacta years ago at the Big A for $600 even and the clerk told me I lucked out by 2 bucks.

BillW
01-11-2007, 04:53 PM
I believe you actually must hit a ticket that pays $602.00 for the IRS to ask you to sign. I hit an exacta years ago at the Big A for $600 even and the clerk told me I lucked out by 2 bucks.

it's a minor technicality but if your $600 winner was a $1 ticket, you would have had to sign. The dollar minimum is $600 BUT it must also be at least 300-1 (yours was 299-1).

PlanB
01-11-2007, 06:04 PM
Always buy $1 tri's, for that added dollar protection. Honestly, MOST winnings can be offset with losing tickets, and you really need not provide those losing tickets. Example: you buy a multiple ticket worth ~$500 -------- it includes many many combos. One of those combos hit, for ~$50 -------- you must give the ticket to the clerk, but really, that ticket LOST you $450. Yet, you can't reproduce it. Ergo, the IRS will not --- almost NEVER --- bother with that issue.

PaceAdvantage
01-12-2007, 12:07 AM
Ergo, the IRS will not --- almost NEVER --- bother with that issue.

And you know this how?

jonnielu
01-12-2007, 07:50 AM
Boomman,

Do you know of one person that is in jail for this?

ezrabrooks
01-12-2007, 09:11 AM
I have used "10 percenters" in the past...but doubt I will do it again. These guys don't pay income taxes...and the thought of them breaking for the door, or claiming not to know me, is more stress then I need. If there ever is a problem, you have no defense.

Ez

jonnielu
01-15-2007, 07:19 PM
I have used "10 percenters" in the past...but doubt I will do it again. These guys don't pay income taxes...and the thought of them breaking for the door, or claiming not to know me, is more stress then I need. If there ever is a problem, you have no defense.

Ez
Is there a market for a legitimate service here. What if there were a service to buy your signer for a percentage, like 95% if it is under the withholding threshold, 70% if it is over. Would you be more comfortable with that?

boomman
01-15-2007, 11:24 PM
Lasix wrote:Understand the going rate for signers at some venues is 5%.. not 10%. Not that i would ever consider it. Perhaps Boom ought to stick to shamelessly promoting his uneventful book...rather than warning us all with his morals. It is against the law not to wear your seatbelt, to use a bookie or use your cell phone while driving in some states as well.

jonnielu wrote: Boomman,

Do you know of one person that is in jail for this?

Sorry I'm just getting back to you guys was on vacation-
First of all Lasix, it was not my intent whatsoever to bore you or anyone else with my morals and my comment to pony had nothing to do with morals, simply a legal issue. And as for 5%, I don't know where you hang out, but I've been around practically every track in the US the last 30 years at one time or another and the number has always been 10% as I have been approached probably a 1000 times!!!

jonnielu: Pete Rose was incarcerated for this very thing, and they recently busted 10 tellers at a dog track in Florida for arranging 10% with folks they knew that were willing to sign. I know that the enforcement is rare compared to the number of times it happens, but why risk it?:ThmbDown: Boom

the little guy
01-15-2007, 11:32 PM
The poster who said the going rate is 5% is 100% correct and it has been for well over a decade. Perhaps there are still some fish out there falling for 10% but they would have to be considered " out of touch ".


Myself, I never understood why people don't cash their own tickets but that is another discussion. I'm also assuming that many, or most, of us bet through accounts so it isn't really even an issue.

rrpic6
01-16-2007, 12:20 AM
Always buy $1 tri's, for that added dollar protection. Honestly, MOST winnings can be offset with losing tickets, and you really need not provide those losing tickets. Example: you buy a multiple ticket worth ~$500 -------- it includes many many combos. One of those combos hit, for ~$50 -------- you must give the ticket to the clerk, but really, that ticket LOST you $450. Yet, you can't reproduce it. Ergo, the IRS will not --- almost NEVER --- bother with that issue.

I've asked the Mutual Clerks to make a copy of these types of tickets after cashing. Every losing ticket counts when dealing with the IRS. Using a Player Tracking card or having an online account that details all of your bets works the best when dealing with the IRS. Having to actually bring in all of your losing tickets to an audit is possible but records from the company tracking your wagers is much more professional.

JustRalph
01-16-2007, 12:23 AM
Is there a market for a legitimate service here. What if there were a service to buy your signer for a percentage, like 95% if it is under the withholding threshold, 70% if it is over. Would you be more comfortable with that?

I believe that the local FED Prosecutor would call that a Criminal Conspiracy.........to defraud the U.S. Government and deceive the IRS, also a Federal Agency. This can get you the same Cell as Pete Rose and Richard Hatch. I don't know how the hell you can make it "Legit"

If you bet online (like most of us) the online records can be used. I used them with the IRS via U.S. mail and they sent me a nice letter thanking me and telling me that I would no longer need to prepare for an audit. It worked real nice. Considering it was just a printout from Brisbet/Americatab.

Sailwolf
01-16-2007, 06:35 AM
And you know this how?

Plan B should read some Tax Court decisions involving gambling situations. Some decisions dicussed if the losing tickets were "fresh" or not.

alysheba88
01-16-2007, 10:27 AM
You dont need old tickets. In some cases those could work against you- think of the guy who stupidly grabs up a million losers on the day of his hit-.

I have hit several signers over the years and just provide a copy of my betting log- which shows daily results and a running total of the year. Never had a problem- but suggest discussing with an accountant.

1st time lasix
01-16-2007, 02:01 PM
Sorry I'm just getting back to you guys was on vacation-
First of all Lasix, it was not my intent whatsoever to bore you or anyone else with my morals and my comment to pony had nothing to do with morals, simply a legal issue. And as for 5%, I don't know where you hang out, but I've been around practically every track in the US the last 30 years at one time or another and the number has always been 10% as I have been approached probably a 1000 times!!!

Sorry but you are dead wrong.....They cash 'em at 5%. Witnessed it three times over the long weekend at my venue among the higher roller regulars. But heaven forbid we possibly question someone who has been around practically every track in the US the last 30 years at one time or another and has been approached a 1000 times!!!! Oh my!

jonnielu
01-16-2007, 03:45 PM
jonnielu: Pete Rose was incarcerated for this very thing, and they recently busted 10 tellers at a dog track in Florida for arranging 10% with folks they knew that were willing to sign. I know that the enforcement is rare compared to the number of times it happens, but why risk it?:ThmbDown: Boom

I thought Pete Rose was convicted for evasion, I'd love to know what the tellers were charged with. But, at any rate, I guess that the actual risk and whether it would be worth taking, would be up to the people involved. Personally, I wouldn't find it a risk to sign for anyone, anywhere.

jonnielu
01-16-2007, 04:03 PM
I believe that the local FED Prosecutor would call that a Criminal Conspiracy.........to defraud the U.S. Government and deceive the IRS, also a Federal Agency. This can get you the same Cell as Pete Rose and Richard Hatch. I don't know how the hell you can make it "Legit"

Okay, let's say you've won a $10,000 supertri. I offer to buy the ticket from you for $7000, and we agree to make the transaction. Is that legit?

Then I sign for the payoff at the track where they withhold 25%. Is that legit?

Then I've got $500, you've got $7000, and your pals at the IRS have $2500.

Who is the injured party?

alysheba88
01-16-2007, 04:11 PM
I believe that the local FED Prosecutor would call that a Criminal Conspiracy.........to defraud the U.S. Government and deceive the IRS, also a Federal Agency. This can get you the same Cell as Pete Rose and Richard Hatch. I don't know how the hell you can make it "Legit"

Okay, let's say you've won a $10,000 supertri. I offer to buy the ticket from you for $7000, and we agree to make the transaction. Is that legit?

Then I sign for the payoff at the track where they withhold 25%. Is that legit?

Then I've got $500, you've got $7000, and your pals at the IRS have $2500.

Who is the injured party?


Are you reporting the $500 of taxes?

What is the net tax result to the IRS (what should have happened in reporting and what did happen- ie different tax brackets, etc)

BillW
01-16-2007, 04:13 PM
I believe that the local FED Prosecutor would call that a Criminal Conspiracy.........to defraud the U.S. Government and deceive the IRS, also a Federal Agency. This can get you the same Cell as Pete Rose and Richard Hatch. I don't know how the hell you can make it "Legit"

Okay, let's say you've won a $10,000 supertri. I offer to buy the ticket from you for $7000, and we agree to make the transaction. Is that legit?

Then I sign for the payoff at the track where they withhold 25%. Is that legit?

Then I've got $500, you've got $7000, and your pals at the IRS have $2500.

Who is the injured party?

All is fine (as far as I know) if the person with the $7000 reports the $7000 as income. Of course this negates the purpose of the initial transaction.

ezrabrooks
01-16-2007, 04:30 PM
I believe that the local FED Prosecutor would call that a Criminal Conspiracy.........to defraud the U.S. Government and deceive the IRS, also a Federal Agency. This can get you the same Cell as Pete Rose and Richard Hatch. I don't know how the hell you can make it "Legit"

Okay, let's say you've won a $10,000 supertri. I offer to buy the ticket from you for $7000, and we agree to make the transaction. Is that legit?

Then I sign for the payoff at the track where they withhold 25%. Is that legit?

Then I've got $500, you've got $7000, and your pals at the IRS have $2500.

Who is the injured party?

If the amount won results in the track withholding 25%...then just cash the ticket. It is amounts which are not subject to withholding that causes people to use third parties to cash their tickets.

Ez

Pace Cap'n
01-16-2007, 10:11 PM
Penalties exist for under-reporting income. To assume the 25% would be a wash would not incorporate consideration of the ticket purchaser's tax bracket.

ezrabrooks
01-16-2007, 10:19 PM
Penalties exist for under-reporting income. To assume the 25% would be a wash would not incorporate consideration of the ticket purchaser's tax bracket.

I meant that if there is a 25% withholding..then if you pay someone 10% to cash the ticket...you are up to 35% which would pay the taxes...or at least to a leg up on paying same..

Ez

alysheba88
01-17-2007, 07:04 AM
Penalties exist for under-reporting income. To assume the 25% would be a wash would not incorporate consideration of the ticket purchaser's tax bracket.

Bingo

boomman
01-17-2007, 10:51 PM
Lasix wrote: Sorry but you are dead wrong.....They cash 'em at 5%. Witnessed it three times over the long weekend at my venue among the higher roller regulars. But heaven forbid we possibly question someone who has been around practically every track in the US the last 30 years at one time or another and has been approached a 1000 times!!!! Oh my!

And heaven forbid we disagree with one who is siteing 3 occasions at ONE venue!! LOL Boom:D

ezrabrooks
01-20-2007, 03:18 PM
Just heard a new take of the 10 percenter... When cashing a IRS amount ticket...if the party cashing same owes back taxes (I guess those SS numbers are flagged)...then the track takes the entire amount and forwards to the IRS for application to that person's tax bill. Ooops... the original owner is really screwed..

Ez

JustRalph
01-20-2007, 03:44 PM
ok
I believe that the local FED Prosecutor would call that a Criminal Conspiracy.........to defraud the U.S. Government and deceive the IRS, also a Federal Agency. This can get you the same Cell as Pete Rose and Richard Hatch. I don't know how the hell you can make it "Legit"

Okay, let's say you've won a $10,000 supertri. I offer to buy the ticket from you for $7000, and we agree to make the transaction. Is that legit?

Nope, you now owe the state sales tax on the 7k. Now you just opened up yours and the seller's tax liability to all the functions of a "sale" every state has rules on sales of "monetary instruments" you can see where this is going right?

Then I sign for the payoff at the track where they withhold 25%. Is that legit?

Then I've got $500, you've got $7000, and your pals at the IRS have $2500.

Who is the injured party?

linrom1
01-20-2007, 08:42 PM
Just heard a new take of the 10 percenter... When cashing a IRS amount ticket...if the party cashing same owes back taxes (I guess those SS numbers are flagged)...then the track takes the entire amount and forwards to the IRS for application to that person's tax bill. Ooops... the original owner is really screwed..

Ez

Where do you come up with this FALSE information? If the amount of the winnings is in excess of $5000, 25% must be automatically withheld even without valid SS number. I think that you are purposely spreading malicious information.

linrom1
01-20-2007, 09:05 PM
Using someone to cash your ticket only makes financial sense if the amount is less than $5000 and not subject to automatic withholding. In the example discussed above, if one wins $10,000 and pays withholding tax of $2500, one can claim $2500 as tax paid on your income taxes and additionally deduct gambling losses up to amount won. So potentially, you could end up paying no tax at all.

ezrabrooks
01-20-2007, 09:39 PM
Where do you come up with this FALSE information? If the amount of the winnings is in excess of $5000, 25% must be automatically withheld even without valid SS number. I think that you are purposely spreading malicious information.

How are they going to issue a W-2G without a SS Number? Your view on using ten percenters in cases where withholding kicks in has been discussed in this thread. Try reading the thread before you start throwing rocks. As to withholding ticket payments to parties with outstanding tax liability, I heard a floor person at my local track discussing it. Just passing it along...as it makes sense.

What do you do...cash tickets for a living..or just stoop?

Ez

Pace Cap'n
01-20-2007, 11:47 PM
How are they going to issue a W-2G without a SS Number? Your view on using ten percenters in cases where withholding kicks in has been discussed in this thread. Try reading the thread before you start throwing rocks. As to withholding ticket payments to parties with outstanding tax liability, I heard a floor person at my local track discussing it. Just passing it along...as it makes sense.

What do you do...cash tickets for a living..or just stoop?

Ez

Are you saying that the IRS teller is required to submit your SS# to the IRS for a determination of your eligibilty to receive your payout? Or that they would do so on their own volition? Have you ever seen or known of this to happen? Sounds absurd to me.

linrom1
01-21-2007, 08:13 AM
How are they going to issue a W-2G without a SS Number? Your view on using ten percenters in cases where withholding kicks in has been discussed in this thread. Try reading the thread before you start throwing rocks. As to withholding ticket payments to parties with outstanding tax liability, I heard a floor person at my local track discussing it. Just passing it along...as it makes sense.

What do you do...cash tickets for a living..or just stoop?

Ez

IRS would have to put a levy on your POSSIBLE winnings with your local track? What if you also have other sources of income such as dividend income or rental income. Is your broker or tenant also responsible of checking if you there is levy against you for dividends or rental income?

ezrabrooks
01-21-2007, 08:18 AM
IRS would have to put a levy on your POSSIBLE winnings with your local track? What if you also have other sources of income such as dividend income or rental income. Is your broker or tenant also responsible of checking if you there is levy against you for dividends or rental income?

Man, I am not telling anybody anything. It might sound absurd...but it was not my intent to spread "malicious information". I was in a group conversation involving someone who worked at the track, when the subject came up about 3rd parties cashing tickets, which was discussed in this thread. It was my understanding, from listening, that certain past due tax liability could hold up the track paying off a ticket. I didn't grill the guy for information. How they go about it...I don't know. If true, and I only assume the guy knew what he was talking about (should have used about a three paragraph disclaimer in my post), it would be one more pitfall in having a stranger cash your ticket for price...and that was all I was trying to say.

I know from personal experience that if you issue a 1099 (misc income) to a party who has back tax liability, you will get Notice from the IRS advising you how to handle future payments to that individual. So in this instant information world, holding up payment didn't seem such a leap. In hindsight...I wish I hadn't even mentioned it..

Ez

ezrabrooks
01-21-2007, 08:24 AM
IRS would have to put a levy on your POSSIBLE winnings with your local track? What if you also have other sources of income such as dividend income or rental income. Is your broker or tenant also responsible of checking if you there is levy against you for dividends or rental income?

Rental payments are exempt from reporting. Never reported dividend payments to a third party, so don't know. I have reported "independent contractor" income (form 1099) to a party with outstanding tax liability..and immediately got a letter from the IRS advising how to handle future payments. So I guess the answer to your question is "yes", but the IRS will do the checking for you.

Ez

K9Pup
01-21-2007, 08:57 AM
I think it is POSSIBLE that tracks, casinos, etc. are given a list of SSNs of people who owe BACK taxes from previous years. No way can they determine if you will owe THIS year.

I believe that people who owe old students loans have their refunds held, so this isn't a big stretch.

linrom1
01-21-2007, 10:26 AM
I think it is POSSIBLE that tracks, casinos, etc. are given a list of SSNs of people who owe BACK taxes from previous years. No way can they determine if you will owe THIS year.

I believe that people who owe old students loans have their refunds held, so this isn't a big stretch.

IRS LEVY RULES (http://www.irs.gov/irm/part5/ch11s05.html)


5.11.5.1 (01-01-2006)
Introduction

1.

An individual's wages, salary, and other income can be levied. Wages, salary, and other income include payment for personal services in a work relationship.

5.11.5.3 (01-01-2006)
Continuous Effect of Levy on Salary and Wages

1.

Unlike other levies, a levy on a taxpayer's wages and salary has a continuous effect. It attaches future paychecks, until the levy is released. Wages and salary include fees, bonuses, and commissions. All other levies only attach property and rights to property that exist when the levy is served.
Example:

If a bank account is levied, it only reaches money in the account when the levy is served. It does not affect money deposited later.

2.

When other income is levied, the levy only reaches money the taxpayer has a fixed and determinable right to. Also see IRM 5.11.6.1,Retirement Income.
Example:

A levy is served to take an author's royalties. The author has a fixed and determinable right to royalties for books that have already been published. The levy reaches royalties for sales of those books in the future. The levy does not reach royalties for books that are written and published later. A new levy must be served to take those royalties.


Ok, I don't see how a track can hold up your winning ticket without an IRS levy. IRS would have to issue a new levy for each new winning ticket

K9Pup
01-21-2007, 11:27 AM
Ok, I don't see how a track can hold up your winning ticket without an IRS levy. IRS would have to issue a new levy for each new winning ticket

Can this possibly fall under garnishment of wages???? What if you owe the IRS back taxes and list your occupation was "professional gambler". Could they attach your winnings then???

Pace Cap'n
01-21-2007, 02:01 PM
If you eat dinner out and the tab comes to $30, would you expect the restaurant to confer with the IRS regarding the advisability of giving you change for your hundered?

ezrabrooks
01-21-2007, 02:20 PM
If you eat dinner out and the tab comes to $30, would you expect the restaurant to confer with the IRS regarding the advisability of giving you change for your hundered?

Man, you are officially out there. What does that have to do with income? If you were trying the humor card...it flopped.

Ez

Pace Cap'n
01-21-2007, 02:50 PM
Are you sure you have not been enjoying too much of your namesake?

To put forth an admitted RUMOR that racetracks have become collection agents for the IRS smacks of irresponsibility or trolling or both.

ezrabrooks
01-21-2007, 04:12 PM
Are you sure you have not been enjoying too much of your namesake?

To put forth an admitted RUMOR that racetracks have become collection agents for the IRS smacks of irresponsibility or trolling or both.

Whatever man....hic.

Ez

jonnielu
01-27-2007, 07:29 AM
To put forth an admitted RUMOR that racetracks have become collection agents for the IRS smacks of irresponsibility or trolling or both.

In Ez's defense, the IRS lives on rumor, innuendo, implication, and urban mythology. Out of fear, many people wholehearted believe many silly things about this agency without any question at all. Without third parties to hand over other people's money, there would be a lot less revenue to collect.

Most people believe anything about this agency and pass it along without question or thought. For example:

Have you ever had an official of government or IRS tell you that you specifically
must pay a tax on your income?

Rumor abounds, the only way to know for sure here is to belly up to the window with a signer, while you owe back taxes.

ezrabrooks
01-27-2007, 09:34 AM
In Ez's defense, the IRS lives on rumor, innuendo, implication, and urban mythology. Out of fear, many people wholehearted believe many silly things about this agency without any question at all. Without third parties to hand over other people's money, there would be a lot less revenue to collect.

Most people believe anything about this agency and pass it along without question or thought. For example:

Have you ever had an official of government or IRS tell you that you specifically
must pay a tax on your income?

Rumor abounds, the only way to know for sure here is to belly up to the window with a signer, while you owe back taxes.

Must pay tax on income..you may be right. Must declare income for tax purposes..I would say yes. Your thoughts on the IRS are well taken, and intimidation is a big stick for them...but, the context of my post concerned third parties cashing tickets..and problems related thereto.

I have satisfied myself as to the answer to the withholding question on signers...so I have now taken the target off my back... so good luck to all.

Ez

rrpic6
01-27-2007, 07:26 PM
I have a feeling some of the stories told at the track about IRS, 10 percenters' etc. can become confusing and exaggerated. A situation is possible where a ticket over the $600 threshold is signed for by someone other than the actual bettor, it is later discovered by the Track or OTB management. How is this possible? If the bettor used a Player Tracking card on his ticket, then paid someone else to sign, it will be caught by a sharp employee that is doing the books that week. Matching the Player iD # to the actual person that signed for the ticket can cause a problem for the Player Card/original bettor. The track will then contact the person who's number is on the ticket for an explanation. A "partner ticket" can be a sufficient response to keep the bettor out of hot water. The track can then go on to file the paperwork properly. If not, the IRS can be notified to keep the OTB on the up 'n up.