Northfield Park

[banacek]

I've been watching Northfield Park tonight. They seem to bet a lot ($100,000+ per race). Why are their purses $2000??:confused:

[wilderness]

Purses are averaged out from the handle over the entire meet of the previous year.

They are not based "primarily" on the handle from their best nights when other tracks (Meadowlands and even others that have closed for the winter) are not racing.

This page (Ohio racing commision) provides a PDF of weekly handles as comapred to the previous year.
See "Weekly Handle Report" or "Year-to-date Handle Report"

http://racing.ohio.gov/commission.stm

[RBrowning]

They cheat a lot at Northfield.


It's a very strange place.....I'd describe it as living an HST book.I often thought he should have gone unercover there;become a driver and then writen the shocking truth.

[wilderness]

They cheat a lot at Northfield.


It's a very strange place.....I'd describe it as living an HST book.I often thought he should have gone unercover there;become a driver and then writen the shocking truth.

Brilliant deduction.

Just how does that observation determine the purses and how might the Ohio Racing Commision use that in their method of calulating purses based on handle?
(BTW which is a method all tracks use).

[RBrowning]

Brilliant deduction.

Just how does that observation determine the purses and how might the Ohio Racing Commision use that in their method of calulating purses based on handle?
(BTW which is a method all tracks use).



Gosh...thanks.

But it's not so brilliant. Even the local Cheap Whiskey Dancers know they cheat .




Now let me ask you something.If it's a half mile harness track AND one suspects cheating .....why would one care about how the ORC handles the challenging issue of calculating purses based on handles??


( I would add I don't think I am the first in message board history to add a comment not totally dedicted to the topic.I hope you're not looking for a taste of the long knuckle.)

[banacek]

Purses are averaged out from the handle over the entire meet of the previous year.

They are not based "primarily" on the handle from their best nights when other tracks (Meadowlands and even others that have closed for the winter) are not racing.

This page (Ohio racing commision) provides a PDF of weekly handles as comapred to the previous year.
See "Weekly Handle Report" or "Year-to-date Handle Report"

http://racing.ohio.gov/commission.stm

We'll try to get this back on topic. Thanks for the link.

The figures in the reports seem strange compared to what I have seen on the video. After each race they flash the total betting - usually $100-125 thousand. Now, of course that will vary by day of week, but 14 races a day at that rate? And if they are betting 100K on a race and giving out a 2K purse, it seems ridiculous. What am I not getting in those reports? (or am I misunderstanding what they show on the video?)

[wilderness]

Gosh...thanks.

[QUOTE=RBrowning]But it's not so brilliant. Even the local Cheap Whiskey Dancers know they cheat .

Who cares if they cheat?
That's part of the mystique of wagering onto pari-mutual pools and wagering fans been crying "cheat" since Ben-Hur and Moses.


Now let me ask you something.If it's a half mile harness track AND one suspects cheating .....why would one care about how the ORC handles the challenging issue of calculating purses based on handles??


banacek began this thread by an inquiry regarding the purses, I added a logical reply on how purses are calculated and then here you come adding an opinion of race-fixing and how (in your own words) it determines purse structure.



( I would add I don't think I am the first in message board history to add a comment not totally dedicted to the topic.I hope you're not looking for a taste of the long knuckle.)

Must be a damn far reaching hand that you have if it's coming all the way to Michigan?
Am I supposed to be intimated by a threat?

[RBrowning]

[QUOTE=RBrowning]Gosh...thanks.



Who cares if they cheat?
That's part of the mystique of wagering onto pari-mutual pools and wagering fans been crying "cheat" since Ben-Hur and Moses.
--------------


I can see you've never been to Northfield.If ever you get there...do not look at the infamous flying turns.You will change your perspective....and lose all of your money.

----------------






banacek began this thread by an inquiry regarding the purses, I added a logical reply on how purses are calculated and then here you come adding an opinion of race-fixing and how (in your own words) it determines purse structure.
------------------


Great job spotting the poster who started this thread.I don't know how you do it. Fine work on being your own biggest booster as well.

Yes...I did say cheating goes on there. God knows the historical record at Northfield belies that assertion.

I did not say it determines purse structure....in my own words.You and you alone made that baseless assumption.

------------------



Must be a damn far reaching hand that you have if it's coming all the way to Michigan?
Am I supposed to be intimated by a threat?

----------------



No appendage of my fine little body will ever cross into Michigan. Are you people now screaming to USC fans..."You would never do that to us on a neutral field!!"

You're not very well read. Even so....anyone else would take that comment of mine as a simple message board shot 'cross ones bow.


I warn you.....stay away from me. There's more for you where that came from.

[wilderness]

No appendage of my fine little body will ever cross into Michigan. Are you people now screaming to USC fans..."You would never do that to us on a neutral field!!"


I'm hardly anyone else nor, did I speak/compse words with secretive meanings that anybody who understands english is not able to interpet.


You're not very well read. Even so....anyone else would take that comment of mine as a simple message board shot 'cross ones bow.

I read far more than you'll ever read, however it seems in more worthwhile directions and subjects.


I warn you.....stay away from me. There's more for you where that came from.

piss-off!

[RBrowning]

Elliott Ness' brother Wilder is now speaking in tongues ...has become violently defensive....and has obviously been soundly thrashed in yet another tether ball loss.


Anyone know what he'll do when the liquor is out?

[JustRalph]

no longer at the gate.......... they are inside the wire..............

[wilderness]

Elliott Ness' brother Wilder is now speaking in tongues ...has become violently defensive....and has obviously been soundly thrashed in yet another tether ball loss.


Anyone know what he'll do when the liquor is out?

Poor thing!

First you advise me to stay away from you and then in the very next submission your whinning to other forum participants for help.

[RBrowning]

no longer at the gate.......... they are inside the wire..............


Ralph;

Is there an ignore option here? It seems I read where people use it,but I can't find the button.

It's regarding Wilder Ness. I was going to add him to my buddies list,but his last post is directly from Great Internet Comebacks,VOL 1.That one was so bad they stopped the initial printing and I won't stand for medicore responses.

Thank you.

[wilderness]

Ralph;

Is there an ignore option here? It seems I read where people use it,but I can't find the button.

It's regarding Wilder Ness. I was going to add him to my buddies list,but his last post is directly from Great Internet Comebacks,VOL 1.That one was so bad they stopped the initial printing and I won't stand for medicore responses.

Thank you.


http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/profile.php?do=editlist

[RBrowning]

Very kind of you Mr. Ness.



I'm a teddy bear at heart and now cannot pull the trigger on ignoring you because of that kindness.


I was thrown off my HS football team for the same reason.

[headhawg]

Very kind of you Mr. Ness. I'm a teddy bear at heart and now cannot pull the trigger on ignoring you becuse of that kindness.
I was thrown off my HS football team for the same reason.13 posts and moving up the Top 50 Troll List with a bullet!

[RBrowning]

Thanks Wilder.



I have inserted HeadSwine to my ignore list.

It was fun!

[wilderness]

We'll try to get this back on topic. Thanks for the link.

The figures in the reports seem strange compared to what I have seen on the video. After each race they flash the total betting - usually $100-125 thousand. Now, of course that will vary by day of week, but 14 races a day at that rate? And if they are betting 100K on a race and giving out a 2K purse, it seems ridiculous. What am I not getting in those reports? (or am I misunderstanding what they show on the video?)

banacek,
There are some tracks of which I've never held interest in. (Northfield and The Meadows). Regardless of how many hours I mights spend pouring over their past performance lines, I'm never able to find anything worth a wager.
Possibly my own short comings :)

The live video could could just be offering the on-track handle and not the out of state handle that is co-mingled in larger numbers.
Still when referring to a 100k a race, your generalizing 1.4mil a card and that warrants more than 2k purses.
I'm assuming that my original reply is correct and Northfiled doesn't average 100k a race over the length of the year, rather only on their good nights.

These co-mingled numbers should be available of the Oh-RC site.
Similar numbers are provided for Michigan tracks each year. And Jersey and other places as well. It's just a matter of finding on the mysterious WWW.

[banacek]

bStill when referring to a 100k a race, your generalizing 1.4mil a card and that warrants more than 2k purses.
I'm assuming that my original reply is correct and Northfiled doesn't average 100k a race over the length of the year, rather only on their good nights.
.

Thanks for the response (and sorry about the others!)
As I research this more, I am more intrigued (confused)
Here's a few from Northfield's result charts on their site:

Dec. 20 Attendance-2160 Handle-$1,600,988
Dec. 22 Attendance-2466 Handle-$1,698,302
Dec. 23 Attendance-2508 Handle-$1,603,940
Dec. 26 Attendance-2141 Handle-$1,632,746
Dec. 27 Attendance-2159 Handle-$1,676,823
Dec. 28 Attendance-2006 Handle-$1,665,646
Dec. 29 Attendance-2622 Handle-$1,555,768
Dec. 30 Attendance-2672 Handle-$1,173,817

as an example Dec. 20, there were 14 races.

6 at $2000
3 at $2200
2 at $2500
3 at $3000

total purses for 14 races : $32600

or $2328 per race
average handle per race $114,356

I don't get it!

[wilderness]

banacek,
It's imperative that you keep in mind that the Dec dates your using as an example are when a full-race schedule was NOT in effect across North America, thus Northfield's handle would naturally be higher than when there is a full schedule.

How's their handle during July and August?
With the Meadowlands in full swing, Scioto Downs open, Lebanon, Raceway, Hazel Park, and many many more.

Purses are not based on the current years handle, rather the majority on the previous years handle.
There are occassional increases in purses based on recent activity in the handles, however these increases are primarily due to short comings in projected budgets of purse distribution. (The person preparing the budget screwed [possibly beyond their control])

A good example is when a track closes.
When Vernon Downs closed in 2003 or 2004 there were accumulated funds left in the general purse fund from the most recent year.
These funds were repaid by Jeff Grural as a condition of opening Vernon in 2006. (could be wrong, however I recall the amount being around 200k.)

The same thing happend in Michigan.
In 1984 when DRC closed some funds were carried over to other facilities. (Great Lakes)
Same when Sports Creek Raceway closed in 2005, some other tracks were allowed to use the 2005 funds in their 2006 budgets of purse distribution.

The slots/VLT formula is even more complicated.
Yonkers a good example. From what I understand, the actual increase in purses to the horsemen will not take effect until the 2008 season. There may however be some agreement in effect which will allow Yonkers to disburse increased purses during 2007 and then be reimbursed during 2008 from the general accumulated purse fund.

[banacek]

banacek,
It's imperative that you keep in mind that the Dec dates your using as an example are when a full-race schedule was NOT in effect across North America, thus Northfield's handle would naturally be higher than when there is a full schedule.

How's their handle during July and August?.

Again from Northfield's websit:

July 3 Attendance-2434 Handle-$1,823,521
July 5 Attendance-2291 Handle-$1,518,870
July 7 Attendance-2760 Handle-$1,499,794

Aug.2 Attendance-2680 Handle-$1,217,414
Aug.4 Attendance-2795 Handle-$1,070,524
Aug.5 Attendance-3016 Handle-$1,224,713
Aug.7 Attendance-2312 Handle-$1,133,483
Aug.18 Attendance-2709 Handle-$1,497,981
Aug.19 Attendance-5148 Handle-$1,411,902


It does look like Aug. is down a bit, but the few July's I checked are healthy. Still all I sampled are well over 1 million.