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Doc
12-19-2006, 06:26 PM
Well, I saw up close and personal today how much the general public likes to play slots. They stormed the gates at Philly Park right after the ceremonial ribbon cutting, some literally running up the ramps to grab a machine. Must've been a thousand people that flew through the doors within the first 10 minutes. Don't know if any of you are Philly Park regulars, but the first two floors don't resemble in the least what the old track used to look like. I have mixed feelings about this transformation ... but suffice it to say that the purses will go up. A buddy of mine and I got a table on the top floor, that's now just for pari-mutuel wagering and simulcasting, ate lunch, and were betting Philly and Tampa Bay. We both won a little, lost a little, then on the way out he bought a $5 voucher, jammed it into a slot machine, and banged out $75.00. That type of gambling ain't my cup of tea, but hey, he went home happy.

Doc :rolleyes:

cj
12-19-2006, 06:41 PM
Soon, everyone will have them, and the novelty will at least spread out.

Then, the politicians will realize they don't need horse racing to run a casino and take all the profit.

jma
12-19-2006, 06:43 PM
Well, I saw up close and personal today how much the general public likes to play slots. They stormed the gates at Philly Park right after the ceremonial ribbon cutting, some literally running up the ramps to grab a machine. Must've been a thousand people that flew through the doors within the first 10 minutes. Don't know if any of you are Philly Park regulars, but the first two floors don't resemble in the least what the old track used to look like. I have mixed feelings about this transformation ... but suffice it to say that the purses will go up. A buddy of mine and I got a table on the top floor, that's now just for pari-mutuel wagering and simulcasting, ate lunch, and were betting Philly and Tampa Bay. We both won a little, lost a little, then on the way out he bought a $5 voucher, jammed it into a slot machine, and banged out $75.00. That type of gambling ain't my cup of tea, but hey, he went home happy.

Doc :rolleyes:

Thanks for the description of the day. I haven't been there since about a month ago, and it's amazing that they were able to finish the first two floors on time. Well, not amazing considering how much they wanted those slots open, but amazing considering the amount of work they had left to do in mid-November. I mostly play from home now, but I'll stop over there at some point and check it all out.

levinmpa
12-19-2006, 10:37 PM
From someone who has worked in a casino, I continue to be amazed that educated, intelligent people would gamble their hard earned money on slot machines. As soon as they walk through the doors, they are transformed into complete idiots, mesmorized by the sounds and lights of the machines. But they'll tell their friends that they got few free drinks and even won a jackpot or two prior walking out a few hundred down.

BlueShoe
12-19-2006, 11:21 PM
As a man that makes frequent trips to Nevada,must admit to regarding slot players with contempt.Still cannot figure out what the attraction is about slots.Perhaps it is because in todays push button society the masses insist on instant gratification,and dont want to bother with something that requires study and effort,such as handicapping horse races or card counting at 21.If installing the damn fruit salad machines at racetracks helps our sport,then let the suckers feed the greedy metal monsters.However,am still not convinced that slots are the answer.Racing has other issues that need to be addressed.

Zaf
12-19-2006, 11:35 PM
SIMPLETON - A person who is felt to be deficient in judgment, good sense, or intelligence; a fool. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Z

Doc
12-20-2006, 08:28 AM
I was surprised at how loud it was as I stood in the middle of the slots floor. All the machines were dinging, ringing and jingling, they were piping in loud music from all these speakers mounted on the wall, and people who weren't fixated on the blinking lights were shouting to talk. I suppose those who were playing the machines tuned out the noise, but it was a little over the top for me. Even though I live within an hour and change of the Atlantic City casinos, I've only gone there maybe 5 times in 15 years, so that's why I didn't realize how much the noise was a part of it all. Ah, gimme a program, a pen and a quiet corner in the grandstand somewhere, where I can figure out my Daily Double in peace!

Doc

Robert Fischer
12-20-2006, 09:12 AM
Soon, everyone will have them, and the novelty will at least spread out.

Then, the politicians will realize they don't need horse racing to run a casino and take all the profit.

I worry about this, and other issues. The short term glory vs the long term effects.

Snow Chief
12-20-2006, 10:39 AM
I was also dissapointed to read that Hal Handel says Philadelphia only wants to build a strong overnight program and leave big time stakes racing to NY and So.Cal. Way to shoot low, a $100k to $200k stake every saturday and a big ev ent every sp often could really get people excited about racing there, as opposed to the status quo of banging out glamourless mediocrity 320 times a year.

Doc
12-20-2006, 12:32 PM
I'm almost positive that Handel & Co. want to avoid big stakes days because, frankly, there is no room left for horseplayers. On Labor Day, for instance, roughly 15,000 will show up for the Pa. Derby. There ain't no way that place can handle that crowd now, unless they're all herded into the picnic area, and even then it will be overflowing. Actually, the picnic area isn't as big as it used to be, either.

Doc

Doc
12-20-2006, 12:44 PM
http://165.1.59.193/Previews/Mini/%7BE5329B89-3057-41C0-B569-26F406417454%7D.pobj.MINI.jpgAnd here's a couple more:

http://165.1.59.193/Previews/Mini/%7B3617EB23-5FC6-4B10-AC7E-2F45E971FF5E%7D.pobj.MINI.jpg

http://165.1.59.193/Previews/Mini/%7BD8803167-6164-4819-9228-950E9149FF07%7D.pobj.MINI.jpg

Doesn't look like the old Pha (above), does it?

Doc

FoxTrot
12-20-2006, 01:33 PM
http://cbs3.com/topstories/local_story_352173004.html
http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=36791

speedking
12-20-2006, 01:36 PM
I'm almost positive that Handel & Co. want to avoid big stakes days because, frankly, there is no room left for horseplayers. On Labor Day, for instance, roughly 15,000 will show up for the Pa. Derby. There ain't no way that place can handle that crowd now, unless they're all herded into the picnic area, and even then it will be overflowing. Actually, the picnic area isn't as big as it used to be, either.

Doc

Since when does Handel care about the customers or the horsemen? Management is probably cursing the warm weather and praying for snow as I write this, so they can cancel a few cards.

speedking

Dick Schmidt
12-20-2006, 04:14 PM
I know most handicappers will tell you that they are willing to put up with the slots because it increases the purses and might save racing in a certain local. Well, hard to argue with that, but what I'd really like to see is some of that slot money put into the betting pools, not just purses. Say spread $50,000 into the pools in accordance with the morning line when betting opens. What racing really needs (from the point of view of the serious player) is more dumb money in the pools. What money could be dumber?

Dick
Disclaimer: The above are the opinions of God as recited by my telepathic goldfish. Those who oppose them with be struck by lightning. Such an event will be reflected on their electrical bill.

levinmpa
12-20-2006, 04:20 PM
Dick.

From all I've read regarding slots and racetracks, racinos, etc., you're idea of seeding the pools with some revenues from slots is by far the best I've heard. Talk about a way to get horse players interested again, that would certainly be a huge incentive. Unfortunately I would doubt that any track would do it, but I'd love to see what influence it would have in betting handle. It would have the same affect as lowering the takeout. Great concept.

lurker
12-20-2006, 04:37 PM
Levinmpa said it best "But they'll tell their friends that they got few free drinks". Until a few years ago when tracks finally started rewarding customers when did anyone get even a cup of coffe or free parking? Casinos figured it out a long time ago. I like the idea of making the track put some money in the pool, but how about more guaranteed Pick days? If a $10,000 jackpot is appealing, how about $1 million for picking a couple of horses.

Binder
12-20-2006, 04:53 PM
Wow
Well its here, Bigger purses, Fuller fields
Big time, I have not been able to get to Philly Park
for a few months, I will miss the little place that I have loved so much.
Doc I will be very sad next time I walk in
but In reality It will always be about the track and winning at Philly Park
for me. I have not played a slot machine for years.
For me nothing beats winning a race at the track. aAfter
all the years of work The feeling of making that correct decision
is so much more of a high :ThmbUp:

happy holidays everyone

Bill

speedking
12-20-2006, 05:09 PM
I know most handicappers will tell you that they are willing to put up with the slots because it increases the purses and might save racing in a certain local. Well, hard to argue with that, but what I'd really like to see is some of that slot money put into the betting pools, not just purses. Say spread $50,000 into the pools in accordance with the morning line when betting opens. What racing really needs (from the point of view of the serious player) is more dumb money in the pools. What money could be dumber?

Fantastic idea, Dick, but the first and loudest complaints about such a proposal would come from the horsemen's association and the jockeys guild. They all have a Jeff Mullins type attitude towards horseplayers and never seem to realize who fuels the fire and keeps them in business.

speedking

Doc
12-20-2006, 06:16 PM
Until a few years ago when tracks finally started rewarding customers when did anyone get even a cup of coffe or free parking? Casinos figured it out a long time ago.

Philly's old idea of "player rewards" was getting free programs based on the amount of money you bet. But yesterday, they were lining up in the front lobby for new "player reward" cards for the slots ... and I understand the perks will be a lot nicer than a program that cost them pennies to print.

An old friend of mine, who goes to Philly every day to play the ponies, said it best yesterday as he watched the blue-hairs careen towards the one-armed bandits: "I don't like it, but I can't stop it. That's the way of the world."

Doc :(

NY BRED
12-20-2006, 09:15 PM
I'm thinking why bother to build vlt parlors within a track, which by nature
would have a limited appeal.
Your local otb(hopefully free of political ownership) would be more accessible
to the public than going to a racetrack, and the result might be improved
facilities for simulcast fans, with perhaps more $$ flowing into the
tracks.

jma
12-21-2006, 08:53 AM
Philly's old idea of "player rewards" was getting free programs based on the amount of money you bet. But yesterday, they were lining up in the front lobby for new "player reward" cards for the slots ... and I understand the perks will be a lot nicer than a program that cost them pennies to print.

An old friend of mine, who goes to Philly every day to play the ponies, said it best yesterday as he watched the blue-hairs careen towards the one-armed bandits: "I don't like it, but I can't stop it. That's the way of the world."

Doc :(


Doc, I have a question about the layout of the place. Trust me, I'm not being naive about the importance of horse racing vs. slots, but I am curious. Is there anywhere on the new slots floors you can even make a bet? What I mean is, let's say its June and Philly is having one of their hopefully great new slots-aided racing cards. I'd like to bet that, but I also want to watch some simulcasts from Belmont and Delaware. Are the only options to sit outside on the benches or in the picnic area and possibly catch a glimpse of simulcasting if I can stand near the few TVs out there, or to sit up on the top floor and watch the simulcasts, then zip down past the casino to the ground floor to watch the live races? Of course I could watch the whole thing on a TV on the horse racing floor, but I mean for someone who wanted to actually look at the horses live at Philly.

Thanks,
Jerry

Doc
12-21-2006, 11:02 AM
Jerry,

When you walk into The Pha, on the first floor the only place to bet/watch simulcasts is a small area right inside the doors leading to the paddock. There are maybe 6-8 tellers there (only 3 working on Monday, I noticed), several high tables and stools scattered in front of a wall with probably 12 television screens. There is no sound from any of the TVs, nor for the live race call, so you have to pay close attention. To the immediate left of that little area is a new "cafe" geared to the slots players, and then the slots are maybe 10 feet in front of that cafe. In other words, the entire first floor, except for that little area inside the paddock doors, is devoted to slots. Where the old Finish Line stand was, though, they did leave a sliver of glass where you can stand and watch the horses come down the stretch.

The second floor is entirely devoted to gaming. You have to go on the 3rd floor (which they have christened the 5th floor now) to sit and watch the live races, watch simulcasts, etc. It's usually crowded and very smoky. To the right is the dining room and then there are tables staggered on different tiers right in front of the windows. From what I understand the owner's boxes will be relocated in that area sometime in '07.

If the weather is good, you can always sit on the track apron on the benches.

The picture I painted isn't a family-friendly enviornment, is it? Now, when they complete that stand-alone casino in the front parking lot, supposedly more room will open up for horseplayers. But they spent so much money to rehab the joint that I have a hard time believing that will happen.

Doc

speedking
12-21-2006, 11:46 AM
Jerry,

When you walk into The Pha, on the first floor the only place to bet/watch simulcasts is a small area right inside the doors leading to the paddock. There are maybe 6-8 tellers there (only 3 working on Monday, I noticed), several high tables and stools scattered in front of a wall with probably 12 television screens. There is no sound from any of the TVs, nor for the live race call, so you have to pay close attention. To the immediate left of that little area is a new "cafe" geared to the slots players, and then the slots are maybe 10 feet in front of that cafe. In other words, the entire first floor, except for that little area inside the paddock doors, is devoted to slots. Where the old Finish Line stand was, though, they did leave a sliver of glass where you can stand and watch the horses come down the stretch.

The second floor is entirely devoted to gaming. You have to go on the 3rd floor (which they have christened the 5th floor now) to sit and watch the live races, watch simulcasts, etc. It's usually crowded and very smoky. To the right is the dining room and then there are tables staggered on different tiers right in front of the windows. From what I understand the owner's boxes will be relocated in that area sometime in '07.

If the weather is good, you can always sit on the track apron on the benches.

The picture I painted isn't a family-friendly enviornment, is it? Now, when they complete that stand-alone casino in the front parking lot, supposedly more room will open up for horseplayers. But they spent so much money to rehab the joint that I have a hard time believing that will happen.

Doc

Doc, it's a total disgrace and an insult to the horseplayers. I stopped in about 3 weeks ago when they were still partitioning off the little horsemens area near the paddock. This is a tiny area which gets packed on live racing days and is pretty much populated by the runners connections and the backside crew. On the day I visited, a Sat or Sun, they had 3 surly tellers in place. A voucher machine that would not accept any bill larger than a 20, if it worked at all, and 2 self-service betting terminals which were not operating properly. No place to obtain a program on the first floor when I visited. Go upstairs to the 5th(?) floor and you will need an oxygen mask after 5 minutes if you're not a heavy smoker who is accustomed to clouds of noxious fumes hovering just above your head. If you wear contacts you don't stand a chance. Good seats for simulcasting are at a premium, as are all seats except for the trackside tiers. Management should be embarassed and chastised for their treatment of the people who kept them in business and made this slots emporium possible, but as usual, they could not care less.

I was in and out in 15 minutes and will not return except for actual racing business.

speedking

Bathless
12-21-2006, 12:00 PM
The picture I painted isn't a family-friendly enviornment, is it? Now, when they complete that stand-alone casino in the front parking lot, supposedly more room will open up for horseplayers. But they spent so much money to rehab the joint that I have a hard time believing that will happen.

Doc

Sounds like I've made my last trip to the PHA, not that I've ever really liked the place. Oh it's clean and all. But the layout was never really right. To really watch races, you had to go upstairs and sit behind glass. And I'm still a skeptic on whether the racing will improve that much. DEL's purse structure hasn't prevented a steady diet of short fields.

One advantage of a casino/racino atmosphere, though, is that they treat their patrons a whole lot better than tracks do. Horse players should get a collateral benefit from this.

For slots and racing, DEL is the place. If you're there to play the horses, you never have to see or hear a slot machine. And you can watch in that great old grandstand. The open-air, summer track is becoming extinct. I guess I should enjoy MTH while I can....

njcurveball
12-21-2006, 12:37 PM
One advantage of a casino/racino atmosphere, though, is that they treat their patrons a whole lot better than tracks do. Horse players should get a collateral benefit from this.



I haven't seen this to be true in Atlantic City or Delaware. In fact, most casinos in AC are just horrible for horse players. They have slot tournaments almost weekly and hate when to many people come to the racebook.

It doesn't take a first grade education to know where their bread is buttered.

Zman179
12-21-2006, 01:07 PM
Geez, I used to love going to Philly Park. Now, it sounds like a place to avoid. I'll reserve judgment until I get a chance to go there myself.

jma
12-21-2006, 01:29 PM
Jerry,

When you walk into The Pha, on the first floor the only place to bet/watch simulcasts is a small area right inside the doors leading to the paddock. There are maybe 6-8 tellers there (only 3 working on Monday, I noticed), several high tables and stools scattered in front of a wall with probably 12 television screens. There is no sound from any of the TVs, nor for the live race call, so you have to pay close attention. To the immediate left of that little area is a new "cafe" geared to the slots players, and then the slots are maybe 10 feet in front of that cafe. In other words, the entire first floor, except for that little area inside the paddock doors, is devoted to slots. Where the old Finish Line stand was, though, they did leave a sliver of glass where you can stand and watch the horses come down the stretch.

The second floor is entirely devoted to gaming. You have to go on the 3rd floor (which they have christened the 5th floor now) to sit and watch the live races, watch simulcasts, etc. It's usually crowded and very smoky. To the right is the dining room and then there are tables staggered on different tiers right in front of the windows. From what I understand the owner's boxes will be relocated in that area sometime in '07.

If the weather is good, you can always sit on the track apron on the benches.

The picture I painted isn't a family-friendly enviornment, is it? Now, when they complete that stand-alone casino in the front parking lot, supposedly more room will open up for horseplayers. But they spent so much money to rehab the joint that I have a hard time believing that will happen.

Doc

You painted the picture very well. I'm glad they at least have that little area near the paddock. I've seen the 3rd (5th) floor area as it is now. I prefer the location of the smoking area, but being the smoking area it gets very smoky. I'm in total agreement about the chances of opening up more room for the horseplayers. The only way I could see it happening is if they get approved for a number of slot machines and table games that they can't fit in the track building. Then they may build a new facility for those, but that's years down the road. Thanks for the report Doc.

jma
12-21-2006, 01:36 PM
Sounds like I've made my last trip to the PHA, not that I've ever really liked the place. Oh it's clean and all. But the layout was never really right. To really watch races, you had to go upstairs and sit behind glass. And I'm still a skeptic on whether the racing will improve that much. DEL's purse structure hasn't prevented a steady diet of short fields.

One advantage of a casino/racino atmosphere, though, is that they treat their patrons a whole lot better than tracks do. Horse players should get a collateral benefit from this.

For slots and racing, DEL is the place. If you're there to play the horses, you never have to see or hear a slot machine. And you can watch in that great old grandstand. The open-air, summer track is becoming extinct. I guess I should enjoy MTH while I can....

Delaware is a bit of a drive for me, especially just to bet on simulcasts, but I agree about the atmosphere. Philly is (was) good to watch simulcasting and hang out, but Delaware was a "racino" that was still a good place to watch live races. They had a decent facility, cheap food, and lots of TVs if you want those things. Beautiful paddock.

I also agree about the short fields at Delaware---not sure if the Philly purse increases will hurt them even more. They might lose some of their "supertrainers", but I'm not sure that would hurt the number of bettable races. Delaware at least has good turf racing, and decent fields when it doesn't rain. Time will tell.

levinmpa
12-21-2006, 02:37 PM
During the warmer months you can always sit outside. They have limited simulcast monitors in the betting areas to left of the grandstand, so you can at least keep tabs on a few tracks. Unfortunately, on a busy weekend, you may not be able to see the track you want unless you go inside, and there are only a couple of tellers, so you'll probably need to use the self service machines. The one thing I've always disliked about Philly Park and the Turf Clubs included, is the ventilation. The smoke is terrible. If you're in there for 5 minutes you'll be consumed by it and you'll smell like an ash tray when you leave the place.

Doc
12-21-2006, 03:27 PM
The people who own/run Philly Park and the ones that own Delaware couldn't be more different. The Rickman family of Delaware have owned/raced horses for many years, while two former British bookmakers run Philly, with the financing for the track coming from an elusive Armenian who reportedly has ties to the Mafia and lives part of the year in Lichtenstein. I'm not making this up - a couple of years ago the Phila. Inquirer did a big story on this and there was a quote or two from a member of the Pa. Racing Commission who admitted they "rubber-stamped" their approval for Greenwood Racing to buy Philly Park from Bob Brennan (there's a name to remember) because they wanted to keep racing going. Well, way back then Greenwood was most interested in Philly because of the potential for phonebet, OTBs, and slots ... and their vision has panned out.

However, Greenwood never has cared as much about racing as the Rickman family does. The backstretch right now is a horror show - potholes that could swallow a truck from one end to the other, the barns are in disrepair, the place is overrun by pigeons and skunks - and of course their treatment of horseplayers over the years has been less than stellar. I really like the way Delaware is set up - you don't even know the slots are there, like someone already pointed out. Every year they seem to fix up the racing side a little nicer.

Time will tell whether Greenwood sows what it will reap from the slots to the horseplayers, but I'm betting they don't.

Doc

TonyK@HSH
12-21-2006, 03:40 PM
The setup at the Pha is temporary. But it will most likely be in place for 2 years. The plan os to build a new hotel/casino (and more) adjacent to the track (near the current paddock). After this is completed the entire casino will be moved to the new facility and racing will return to the first floor.
But in the meantime racing fans will be less than comfortable unless you can secure a table in the dining area.

Good luck

TonyK

trigger
12-21-2006, 04:47 PM
Compared to the horrendous takeout in Pennsylvania, the slots look good.

Bathless
12-21-2006, 06:43 PM
I haven't seen this to be true in Atlantic City or Delaware. In fact, most casinos in AC are just horrible for horse players.

Well, I only go to AC for the HS wrestling tournament in March. As for DEL, I find that they couldn't be nicer. Of course, I'm accustomed to the rude behavior from the clerks at MTH. In fact, as a life long resident of NJ, I find that people are nicer everywhere else, with the possible exceptions of NY and Paris.

bigmack
12-22-2006, 09:04 AM
In fact, as a life long resident of NJ, I find that people are nicer everywhere else, with the possible exceptions of NY and Paris.
Parisians have got to win hands down Bath - Course I haven't spent much time in Jersey.

Handel estimates that Philadelphia Park will eventually be paying out $500,000 a day

..."for a stand-alone racetrack that is going to be operating all year, if we have an overnight purse structure of $450,000 or $500,000, that's going to be a bellwether for the industry and we'll be a really great place to race meat-and-potato horses."

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/columns/story?columnist=finley_bill&id=2704905

Doc
12-22-2006, 09:28 AM
That's a bullcrap article by Finley, who obviously hasn't stepped foot in the joint ... he's a big-time gambler himself who would be horrified to see the amount of space/amenities now afforded to horseplayers. Obviously he did this Handel interview over the phone, because his article wouldn't be so rah-rah Philly Park. And since when is Delaware Park considered a "remote location," as he writes. It's right on the outskirts of Wilmington, which the last time I checked had a pretty big population. Actually Philly Park is in "suburbia," not smack-dab in the heart of the city, as Finley insinuates. Too bad he didn't get off his keester and make the trip for the ribbon-cutting on Tuesday.

Doc

cj's dad
12-22-2006, 11:40 AM
While I have mixed emotions about slots, I believe that the following facts (?) are pretty well proven(at least for me) from my trips to Charlestown, Deleware Park, and Hollywood Park (1997 Breeders Cup,so things there may have changed).

-BS (before slots) both C'Town and Del Park were absolute dumps.
-The quality of racing was abysmal.
-purses were minute
-Crowds ?-what crowds?
- fields were small


Now, the following things are true:

-The tracks are very modern in appearance and comfort
-Racing quality has improved
-Purses are larger which has attracted fuller fields
-On the weekends at least, the crowds are much improved
-And, the slots players, to some extent do bet the races. In some cases,these are people who otherwise would have never set foot in a race track.

Lack of slots is killing Maryland racing. Believe what you will, but the Preakness will leave Maryland for probably Gulfstream Park in the near future if slots legislation is not approved SOON. Pimlico is an absolute dump in a bad part of the city, Frank Stronach owns the Md. jockey club and contrary to local opinion, the City does NOT own the rights to the Preakness, Frank S. does.

JPinMaryland
12-22-2006, 01:06 PM
why wouldnt the Preakness simply go to Philadelphia? Those horses wouldnt have to ship so far as Gulfstream.

Last year they were going to cut racing days back to like 15 days Pimlico. Is that still the plan? Pimlico seems to be hanging on by a thread.

jma
12-22-2006, 10:51 PM
While I have mixed emotions about slots, I believe that the following facts (?) are pretty well proven(at least for me) from my trips to Charlestown, Deleware Park, and Hollywood Park (1997 Breeders Cup,so things there may have changed).

-BS (before slots) both C'Town and Del Park were absolute dumps.
-The quality of racing was abysmal.
-purses were minute
-Crowds ?-what crowds?
- fields were small


Now, the following things are true:

-The tracks are very modern in appearance and comfort
-Racing quality has improved
-Purses are larger which has attracted fuller fields
-On the weekends at least, the crowds are much improved
-And, the slots players, to some extent do bet the races. In some cases,these are people who otherwise would have never set foot in a race track.

Lack of slots is killing Maryland racing. Believe what you will, but the Preakness will leave Maryland for probably Gulfstream Park in the near future if slots legislation is not approved SOON. Pimlico is an absolute dump in a bad part of the city, Frank Stronach owns the Md. jockey club and contrary to local opinion, the City does NOT own the rights to the Preakness, Frank S. does.

I wouldn't argue with anything you said about Charles Town or Delaware pre-slots. I've seen the whole "slots good or evil" debate argued a million times and won't bore everyone with it again, but no one could deny that Delaware and Charles Town likely wouldn't exist without the slot machines. Whether that's good or bad for racing overall, or whether the golden goose will someday be killed, well...we'll see. Since I like betting Delaware and to a lesser extent Charles Town, I'm not complaining.

Also, good points Doc made about the owners of Philadelphia Park. That series of articles in the Inquirer told quite an interesting story about who is really behind the place. I remember they were loaning money to one of their foreign companies to avoid showing any profits in the U.S. and paying taxes, that sort of stuff. With that said, while it took a few years for their vision to play out, it now has and they're going to be very rich. Well, richer.

PriceAnProbability
12-29-2006, 12:34 PM
The setup at the Pha is temporary. But it will most likely be in place for 2 years. The plan os to build a new hotel/casino (and more) adjacent to the track (near the current paddock). After this is completed the entire casino will be moved to the new facility and racing will return to the first floor.

First polytrack, now LINOLEUM?

Sheesh.

Hope none of the horses crash into the bar.

PriceAnProbability
12-29-2006, 12:53 PM
Delaware is a bit of a drive for me, especially just to bet on simulcasts, but I agree about the atmosphere. Philly is (was) good to watch simulcasting and hang out, but Delaware was a "racino" that was still a good place to watch live races. They had a decent facility, cheap food, and lots of TVs if you want those things. Beautiful paddock.

I also agree about the short fields at Delaware---not sure if the Philly purse increases will hurt them even more. They might lose some of their "supertrainers", but I'm not sure that would hurt the number of bettable races. Delaware at least has good turf racing, and decent fields when it doesn't rain. Time will tell.

The short fields at Delaware are caused as much by the early scratch time (several days in advance, like Tuesday for Saturday) as anything else.

Tom
12-30-2006, 10:02 AM
CJ's Dad.....add Finger Lakes to the list - it was a real dump. Slots transformed it into a great place for western NY. Beautiful slit area - although I don't play there, a lot of people do. And they just put in a Vegas style buffet - comparabel to anyhting ate at in real Vegas. This really adds to the general area for a dinner option, night on the town stuff.
And the racing is tansformed. Full fields, good horses, nice racing product.

speedking
12-30-2006, 10:42 AM
CJ's Dad.....add Finger Lakes to the list - it was a real dump. Slots transformed it into a great place for western NY. Beautiful slit area - although I don't play there, a lot of people do. And they just put in a Vegas style buffet - comparabel to anyhting ate at in real Vegas. This really adds to the general area for a dinner option, night on the town stuff.
And the racing is tansformed. Full fields, good horses, nice racing product.

I had a good season there Tom and I'm already looking forward to the Spring when they start with the short sprints and gradually stretch the distances out. Nice full fields as you said.

Has the slot money impacted the purses though? I have not paid much attention to that.

speedking

Doc
12-31-2006, 10:35 AM
A friend of mine who works at The Pha said they are changing the post time to 12:05 p.m. from its usual 12:25 p.m., and are going to shorten the weekend cards. Also, if you go into the casino, you will notice that there are no TVs showing horse racing, not even the live card. Apparently management wants to keep the "riff raff" horseplayers out of the slots area. What a joke.

Doc :ThmbDown:

speedking
12-31-2006, 09:59 PM
Doc, I think you might know this...what happens to purse money at Philly when they cancel? It never took much in past Winters to shut it down and I'm sure they are cursing the mild season we have enjoyed so far!

speedking

PriceAnProbability
12-31-2006, 10:16 PM
Doc, I think you might know this...what happens to purse money at Philly when they cancel? It never took much in past Winters to shut it down and I'm sure they are cursing the mild season we have enjoyed so far!

speedking

I like it when they cancel turf racing at Philadelphia because someone spilled a beer on the course.

Tom
01-01-2007, 08:55 AM
I had a good season there Tom and I'm already looking forward to the Spring when they start with the short sprints and gradually stretch the distances out. Nice full fields as you said.

Has the slot money impacted the purses though? I have not paid much attention to that.

speedking

Oh yeah they are way up, and since most of the ALW races are for state breds, it is even better.

Hopefully, we will be able to bet on the net this year, so I will be playing it even more. I like watching the first few races, then drvining out for thel last half of the ( I can make it between the 5th and 6th and still get in a bet), then staty for the West Coast action, but if I can't bet the early races, I tend to avoid the whole show.

Binder
01-01-2007, 11:54 AM
Hi Speedking
I think what they do is run make up days at the end of the year.
In 2006 Philly scheduled 220 days of live racing.
This includes the regular live days Monday, Tuesday, Saturday and Sunday
with special Weds cards sprinkled in. They do not run on Mondays in
August They are allowed a fixed amount of live races each year.
Since they run in the winter and the rough early spring,
there are usually many weather cancellations They make these days up at the end of the year which they keep open -This year they actually
ended up dark for this last week In other years they have run everyday
at the end of December to make up the days lost
I would think that this is where the purse money goes when
there is a cancellation

Happy new year
Bill

Doc
01-01-2007, 12:00 PM
Binder hit the nail on the head in regards to days/purses, speedking.

Just taking a gander at tomorrow's card, maiden 8's now maiden 10's running for $10,500 pots ... no more beaten 4's, now there's beaten 5's ... allowance race carded for $30,000, up from $21,000. Trouble is these are the same nags that have been toiling at The Pha all year, time will tell whether they'll get any new shooters from better outfits. My guess is they won't.

Doc