Annie Get Your Mandatory Gun

[bigmack]

The City Council of Greenleaf, Idaho, passed an ordinance in November to require nearly all residents to keep a gun at home in case the town becomes overrun by people relocating after Gulf Coast storms.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003434963_gunlaw17.html

http://www.gifmania.co.uk/weapons/shotguns/over_under_shotgun_turning_md_wht.gif

[Dick Schmidt]

So? What's so terrible about giving people the ability to defend themselves? Every home has a gun? It works for Switzerland.


Dick

"Stop quoting laws to us. We carry swords"
- Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus

[bigmack]

It works for Switzerland.
Not as well as some:


Country Murders Population Rate (per 100,000)
-----------------------------------------------------------
United States 13,429 254,521,000 5.28
Switzerland 97 6,828,023 1.42
Canada 128 27,351,509 0.47
Sweden 36 8,602,157 0.42
Australia 13 17,576,354 0.07
United Kingdom 33 57,797,514 0.06
Japan 60 124,460,481 0.05

Percent of households with a handgun

United States 29%
Switzerland 14
Finland 7
Germany 7
Belgium 6
France 6
Canada 5
Norway 4
Europe 4
Australia 2
Netherlands 2
United Kingdom 1

[Dave Schwartz]

Mack,

What a coincidence that the rate of murders and the rate of homeowners with guns correlates!


What do you suppose causes that? :rolleyes:


Dave

[kenwoodallpromos]

You're not mixing guns with handguns with murders of all types, are you?
How about stats for handgun murder convictions by geography, race, age and sex? I'll bet not too many committed by small town asian women over 40!

[bigmack]

D, On a side note, I've never owned a gun. In fact, never blasted one off until that fateful trip to Vegas.

They have a shooting range there that you can fire anything known to man - Particularly machine guns. I spent the better part of an afternoon laying into Oozies, AK-47's, Tommy Guns, you name it. By the time I left I felt like John Dillinger.

Now I trap & skeet shoot as I couldn't bear to kill anything, hell I golf barefooted to avoid killing a cricket. In any event, trap & skeet, not too bad and I enjoy wearing the vests.

http://www.fbi.gov/libref/historic/famcases/dillinger/dillinger1.jpg

[Bala]

Mack baby – you know better than this....
What are the dates your chart was compiled?
What is the source of your chart? I need to check the quality and integrity of those that produced this chart. I trust it's not the UN.

So, going a little blind here – The National Risk & Culture Survey funded by the National Science Foundation, Project members conducted an 1800-person national survey that found that cultural worldviews better predicted extreme violent acts than did any other individual characteristic.

Like kenwoodallpromos, I do suspect that your chart includes all murders not just by the gun. Unfortunately, a significant portion of gun violence in this country is a direct result of our failed war on drugs and of course street gangs activity.

________________________________


Let's examine some of the more prominent figures who have been in favor of gun control: Mao Tse-Tung: "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun." Mao proceeded to enact full gun registration and therefore reduce the chance of any significant political resistance.

Adolf Hitler: Began rather quickly disarming the Wiemar Republic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weimar_Republic).

Australia (in which private gun ownership has recently been outlawed) has seen double-digit increases in gun violence, the most prominent being in the state of Victoria (300%.) Most recent stats available. http://www.abs.gov.au/

Soviet leaders during the Cold War stated that because of the Second Amendment, an invasion of the United States would be nearly impossible.

I think it's great how liberals can attack so viciously the explicitly stated 2nd Amendment (http://www.guncite.com/) rights as so clearly elaborated upon in the Federalist Papers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_Papers).


Quotes from the Founding Fathers;
http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndfqu.html


________________________________________________
It's a revolution, dammit. We've got to offend somebody.
--John Adams - 1776

[Dave Schwartz]

Mack,

When I was in the military (back in the stone age - we threw rocks then) I was a light weapons expert. Although I did not make a conscious decision to stay away from guns and rifles, about 20 years later I realized that how long it had been such I touched a weapon; and how little I had missed them.

This year I purchased an assault rifle - an AR15 - simply because, if there is ever insurrection in this country I do not want to be the only guy on my block to be unarmed.


I recall the statistics presented the year the Brady Bill was proposed (early 1990's? 1992?) They sited statistics that said (as I recall, from a couple of years before) the U.S. led the world in handgun deaths with like 14,000. Japan was second with twelve. Twelve.



Dave

[Bala]

* Americans use firearms to defend themselves from criminals at least 764,000 times a year. This figure is the lowest among a group of 9 nationwide surveys done by organizations including Gallup and the Los Angeles Times. (16b)

* In 1982, a survey of imprisoned criminals found that 34% of them had been "scared off, shot at, wounded or captured by an armed victim." (16c)

* Washington D.C. enacted a virtual ban on handguns in 1976. Between 1976 and 1991, Washington D.C.'s homicide rate rose 200%, while the U.S. rate rose 12%. http://www.justfacts.com/gun_control.htm

_________________________________________


http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/region.htm#regionweap

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/intimates.htm#intweap

International Homicide Comparisons;
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvinco.html

Kids and Gun Violence Factsheet;
http://www.ichv.org/kidsandguns.htm

[PlanB]

So? What's so terrible about giving people the ability to defend themselves? Every home has a gun? It works for Switzerland.


Switzerland land of opportunity. I skied there and yes it's sorta perfect, but I couldn't wait to leave. Maybe it's the perfection of it all?

[bigmack]

This year I purchased an assault rifle - an AR15 - simply because, if there is ever insurrection in this country I do not want to be the only guy on my block to be unarmed.

I recall the statistics presented the year the Brady Bill was proposed (early 1990's? 1992?) They sited statistics that said (as I recall, from a couple of years before) the U.S. led the world in handgun deaths with like 14,000. Japan was second with twelve. Twelve.
DS, I see that after the ban on the AR15 sales in CA skyrocketed to an estimated total possesion of 10,000. Modifications are needed to make it a 10 magazine to be "California Legal" and that is not detachable so to load the rifle a shooter must pull the rear takedown pin, hinge the upper receiver on the front takedown pin, and load the now exposed magazine either with a stripper clip or by hand, then close. Lot of work. Quite a beast where can you fire it?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d2/Stag2wi.jpg/250px-Stag2wi.jpg

Actually, I believe Japan is last:
Here are gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in the world's 36 richest countries in 1994:
United States 14.24;
Brazil 12.95;
Mexico 12.69;
Northern Ireland 6.63;
Switzerland 5.31;
France 5.15;
Canada 4.31;
a bunch of othes
Japan 0.05.

[Bala]

Here are gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in the world's 36 richest countries in 1994:
United States 14.24;
Brazil 12.95;
Mexico 12.69;
Northern Ireland 6.63;
Switzerland 5.31;
France 5.15;
Canada 4.31;
a bunch of othes
Japan 0.05.

What is your source?
My source has very different #.

International Homicide Comparisons;
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcgvinco.html

[bigmack]

What is your source?
My source has very different #.
Bala Bala FoFala FeeFiFoFala Bala,

39% of households with furarms in a pop of 272M is not far off from my stats of '94. Agreed that yours are more up to date. Whatever your position is, come clean. Otherwise, posting a myriad of links is going to cause people to confuse you with hcap.

[Suff]

.

I think it's great how liberals can attack so viciously the explicitly stated 2nd Amendment (http://www.guncite.com/) rights as so clearly elaborated upon in the Federalist Papers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_Papers).




.

Right up the road a piece, here in Massachusetts, on Franklin D Roosevelt Drive, is the largest Fire Arms manufacturer and distributor in the country. Smith & Wesson. Been there 125 years or so.




* In 1982, a survey of imprisoned criminals found that 34% of them had been "scared off, shot at, wounded or captured by an armed victim." (16c)



In 1982, a survey of imprisoned criminals found that 100% of them had been railroaded, falsey accused or otherwise innocent.

:D

[Bala]

"....Whatever your position is, come clean..." Like the ACLU, I am neutral on this one issue.

"...posting a myriad of links is going to cause people to confuse you with hcap..." I resemble that remark.


".... the largest Fire Arms manufacturer and distributor in the country. Smith & Wesson...." I am shocked, shocked to learn we have a manufacturing business not yet outsourced to India, the makiladoras (http://www.nshp.org/forum_topic/by_location/california/san_diego/outsourcing_of_american_jobs_to_mexico) of Mexico, China, etc.... Good to know we still make WMD.

[BlueShoe]

Quite simple;the more guns in the hands of the law abiding citizens the lower the crime rate will be.Not sure where all those stats are coming from that show how violent the USA is supposed to be,but they are bunk.Compared to any part of what was the old USSR,Latin America,and of course any place in the Mid East or Africa,the US is quite safe.Only a few nations in Western Europe have a lower violent crime rate than the US.Since the UK and Australia enacted very restrictive gun laws a few years ago,the violent crime rate has soared.What Western Europe nation has the highest violent crime rate?It is Scotland.They dont usually shoot one another,but for some odd reason they seem to just adore slicing and carving each other up with sharp blades and bashing fellow Scots with heavy blunt objects.

[JPinMaryland]

WHen's the last time they had a Columbine in Europe?

[Dave Schwartz]

In 1982, a survey of imprisoned criminals found that 100% of them had been railroaded, falsey accused or otherwise innocent.


Yes, but the percentage is much higher now.

:lol:

[Dave Schwartz]

Mack,

In Nevada we don't have any of those namby-pamby rules. Okay, so the weapon is only semi-automatic, but that should serve my purpose just fine. (What was that purpose again?)

Basically, it is just another .22 with a heavier load. <G>

http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/weapons/bcwa3f16.asp


Dave

[bigmack]

In Nevada we don't have any of those namby-pamby rules.
Oh yeah, I forgot you park it in Silver not Golden. Remind me to reside Silver @ some point to thwart this Golden income tax - State expenditures are killin' me.

[Ponyplayr]

WHen's the last time they had a Columbine in Europe?
Auschwitz..Bergen Belson... We have a long way to go.

[PaceAdvantage]

This year I purchased an assault rifle - an AR15 - simply because, if there is ever insurrection in this country I do not want to be the only guy on my block to be unarmed.


Note to self:

Never, ever, piss off Dave Schwartz again......

[Dave Schwartz]

Oh yeah, I forgot you park it in Silver not Golden. Remind me to reside Silver @ some point to thwart this Golden income tax - State expenditures are killin' me.

Someone made an interesting comment the other day about how Californians are leaving their state at an ever-increasing rate. (Many are coming to Nevada.)

The guy's point was that they have all but bankrupted California with their overly-liberal attitudes and now are moving to other states where they will put those same attitudes to work. He said that there were more economies to ruin; more states to bankrupt.


Dave

[Tom]

Mack,

What a coincidence that the rate of murders and the rate of homeowners with guns correlates!


What do you suppose causes that? :rolleyes:


Dave

If YOU have a gun, you are less likely to be murderd.
Remeber the Long Island RR gunman - one other guy with a gun on that train it turns out different.


Personally, I do not own a gun. The mind is willing but the flesh is weak.
I know my limits.

[Lefty]

People have walked into schools, retauranrs, grocery stores etc and started shooting. Never heard about anybody shooting up a gun show...

[JPinMaryland]

THere actually was a Columbine thing in Scotland. I dont think he killed that many. Not sure if Scotland has different gun laws then the rest of UK.

[chickenhead]

Someone made an interesting comment the other day about how Californians are leaving their state at an ever-increasing rate. (Many are coming to Nevada.)

The guy's point was that they have all but bankrupted California with their overly-liberal attitudes and now are moving to other states where they will put those same attitudes to work. He said that there were more economies to ruin; more states to bankrupt.


Dave

Unfortunately we're still growing like a motha. We are going to be majority hispanic in a very short time. Cali will certainly be changing into something different from what it has been.

Side note: can understand why people say what they say, but anyone who thinks Cali has a ruined economy needs to get a grip. We have a bad economy I guess, unless you compare it to anyone else.

[Tom]

Doesn't Pelosi come from California?;)
Might explain the mess there.

[JPinMaryland]

Also home to Reagen, Nixon, Duke Cunningham, Arnold..

ANd Ken Calvert who has the seat from the desert. he got a bad rating on one of those watchdog sites, but I met him and he seems okay. He collects boots..

[Suff]

Someone made an interesting comment the other day about how Californians are leaving their state at an ever-increasing rate. (Many are coming to Nevada.)

The guy's point was that they have all but bankrupted California with their overly-liberal attitudes and now are moving to other states where they will put those same attitudes to work. He said that there were more economies to ruin; more states to bankrupt.


Dave


What an all purpose word Liberal is in parts of America huh? :lol: Liberals Liberals, just blame liberals. So darn convienent. Despite the facts.

But on Guns. People say the facts are bunk? Then post other facts. Support the position with facts.

Here's a fact. No one needs to defend thier right to own guns. No one needs to show its a benefit to society to own guns. Its our right to own guns. Period. The negative consequences are a byproduct of a free society.

Anyone that suggests more guns make a society safer has'nt been to a city long enough to see murders day after day after day after day. Many of them committed with registered handguns by rightful owners. While ugly, it is a byproduct of a free society.

Back to Liberal Economic theory and practice. I'd submit the facts. Lets have a look at the 50 states. Which state economies are enviable? Well NY is a pretty healthy example. In Massachusetts , the state economy grew at twice the national average. The thread is about GUNS. So we'll leave it at that.

2nd amendment. The right to bear arms. Its as powerful as the 1st amendment? Your right to free speech.

If I use my December Subway pass on January 1st 2007 thats a Felony. But generally the previous months pass's work for the first or second day of a new month. Particulary if the new month starts on weekend or Holiday.

Now for using my Subway pass on january 1, I could be convicted of a Felony, and my 2nd amendment rights would be stripped for life! Imagine if they stripped my 1st amendment rights for life? Stripping rights for life violates the double jeopardy clause in my opinion.

imho The Government can't have the power to strip citizens of thier rights.

Now if your convicted of a Gun Crime....different story.

[Tom]

I think the evidence is overwhleming that Caifornia is a waste of dirt due to stupoid, liberal laws and policies.

Nancy Pelosi is going to bring her San Franciso Values to us all, if she has her way.

California is a lib lab of failures.

Si?

[bigmack]

California is a lib lab of failures.
You're talkin' more Northern Cal T. From Orange County south it's fairly Rep. as well as the Central agricultural districts.

The economy of this state alone would dwarf most countries

[46zilzal]

I think the evidence is overwhleming that Caifornia is a waste of dirt due to stupoid, liberal laws and policies.

Nancy Pelosi is going to bring her San Franciso Values to us all, if she has her way.

California is a lib lab of failures.



East coast bias at it's worst...Sure you're not an official with the TOBA?

I grew up in Orange county and at football games people would ask if we only yelled "lean to the right,lean to the right, stand up, sit down, fight fight fight!" it was so famous for being a home of the reactionary Birch society.

[Bala]

".......Back to Liberal Economic theory and practice. I'd submit the facts. Lets have a look at the 50 states. Which state economies are enviable? Well NY is a pretty healthy example......" The five boroughs of New York City and Long Island carry the economy of the State. In other words, downstate is where all the actions at.

Upstate NY is in desperate economic shape. The “big” cities upstate, Syracuse, Buffalo and Albany are banana republics. If it wasn't for Syracuse University, that town would have gone the way of other wild west towns. The irony is – we have the best track in the known universe - Finger Lakes (http://www.fingerlakesracetrack.com/). :jump:

It is unfortunate that radical fiscal (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=fiscal) liberals {ala: George Bush} have spent the region into bankruptcy. {taxpayers $$$}


__________________________________________________ ___
Whatever the conventional wisdom is - question it, it’s probably wrong.

[46zilzal]

I think the evidence is overwhleming that Caifornia is a waste of dirt due to stupoid, liberal laws and policies.


California has been mismanaged for a long time now, but if you ever want to know the real influence of that state on the other states (in particular it's agriculture), read a good book called The Late Great State of California...it is an eye-opener as to what the WORLD (at the time of it's writing) would be like without it.

[Dave Schwartz]

46,

So, are you suggesting that California has been run by theright and what they need is a good dose of liberal leadership?

:lol:

Dave

[bigmack]

Look at the difference between someone living in a state without income tax and a state like CA where I pay almost 10%. When you're talkin' adult dollars that makes for a lot of lettuce.

Course we've always had real estate booms however, it's bubbling at the moment and Nevada from what I understand is booming.

Make room DSchwartz, I'm breakin' ground next week

http://www.taxadmin.org/FTA/rate/ind_inc.html

[46zilzal]

46,

So, are you suggesting that California has been run by theright and what they need is a good dose of liberal leadership?
Dave
incompetence knows no particular political party

[bigmack]

incompetence knows no particular political party
I certainly don't doubt it - I read the same thing @ PF Changs last night

[Suff]

46,

So, are you suggesting that California has been run by theright and what they need is a good dose of liberal leadership?

:lol:

Dave

I would. I would make the case that many issues contribute to California's difficulties. Not the least of which was the Energy crisis inflicted upon them by predatory captialists at Enron.

Couple of quotes from the Court Transcripts.


During one conversation, Enron traders gloat about how much money they took from “Grandma Millie” in California. Another transcript reveals Tim Belden, a top manager in the Portland office, stating the firm’s trading practices “just fucked California…to the tune of a million bucks or two a day.”



In more than a dozen conversations, Enron traders discuss a relationship with El Paso Electric Company that allowed Enron to “manage” El Paso resources by shutting down electricity generating units during California power shortages, thereby driving the price of wholesale power up.



About market manipulation in California:
Person 1: “…all the money you guys stole from those poor grandmothers of California?”
Person 2: “Yeah, Grandma Millie, man. But she’s the one who couldn’t figure out how to fucking vote on the butterfly ballot.”




What did George Bush call Ken Lay? Kenny Boy. :lol:

Its liberals I tell you. Its the godamn liberals.

[Dave Schwartz]

incompetence knows no particular political party


Now that is something I can agree with!

[Bala]

Someone mention Enron:
Must see DVD;

http://tinyurl.com/yxs3nd



__________________________
Even if it hurts..... think

[bigmack]

Barnicle Bill the Sailer?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPQHwMGmHMI

[Tom]

Enron...the company the righty justice boys took down?

[JustRalph]

They run it on HBO every 3-6 months............

[linrom1]

Ordinance 208, passed by the City Council on Tuesday, asks Greenleaf's 862 residents who do not object on religious or other grounds to keep a gun at home in case they are overrun by people fleeing disasters like Katrina.

So they did not pass an ordinance requiring its citizens to stock up on goods and material to help the victims, they urged them to buy guns to kill them. What a great Christian town!

[BlueShoe]

It has been mentioned that California has given the nation Nancy Pelosi ,who will inflict as much damage as possible on all.Since we are talking about ladies first,dont forget about Barbara Boxer and Dianne Feinstein,also produced by the Golden State.Talk about a bitchy Unholy Trinity,whew.Barby is as much a looney Liberal as Nancy is,Dianne not quite as bad,but still way to the left.

[Valuist]

A town where Tank Johnson can go to. In fact he could buy six homes and not need to worry about going to the gun shop to buy more. Since his days in Chicago appear to be numbered, he'll be looking for a new place to call home.