Indulto
12-11-2006, 03:38 AM
On the first part, very recently you claimed somewhere else not to know that the Remsen had been a 1 1/8 mile race...even though the last THIRTY FOUR runnings of the race have been at that distance. And furthermore you claimed not to have set foot in a NY track during that period. That information is contradictory to your above comments. I find it hard to believe you " play NYRA simulcasts most every graded stakes weekend " and somehow also missed the Remsen distance switch. Or, perhaps you would like us to believe you have been confused about the distance of the Aqueduct oval all these years.
On the other paragraph.....LMFAO!!!!!!!! That is just precious! Coincidentally, another maniac from the DRF Board recently started posting here and leveled that exact same ludicrous " charge " against me. Gee, I wonder where you too seemed to come up with that laughable lie. For a guy who seems to be after facts you had no problem being unwittingly duped into believing the rantings of an unstable poster. You might want to check those facts as carefully as you dog the facts around here.tlg,
Pardon me for saying that your tone didn’t really seem to reflect LMFAOing. Having promised a response, I won't just laugh off your feeble efforts to feel ecstatic by finding excuses to fuel embarrassment through faked examples of failed enterprise. So let’s see if your dog will hunt.
The following are what IMO are relevant excerpts from posts in interaction sequence:
Part 1, thread 1:Originally Posted by Indulto
I tend to agree. I'd like to see all G1s exceed 7 furlongs and more at 12. While I don't favor grading sprint stakes, shorter races for higher purses seem to consistently be more competitive and reflective of past performances. Originally Posted by Indulto
Good point. I neglected to allow for 2YO. Wasn't the Champagne at 1 m once considered the premier race for 2YO and as far as they should go? Originally Posted by the little guy
No.
Essentially the BC, which IMO has had a negative overall affect on top class racing throughout the year, has rendered many once important 2YO races at distances beyond a mile obsolete. Two that come immediately to mind are the Laurel Futurity and the now defunct Young American. Both of these were Grade 1s and were won by an impressive roster of stars. Even the Young American in its short existence was won by the likes of Spectacular Bid and Storm Cat. While both those races were 1 1/16 miles, the Remsen has also been a very important race over many years, with a lot of its runnings contested at 1 1/8 miles. Originally Posted by the little guy
I pointed out only Derby winners over the last 30 years. Hell, I left Believe It off the list as well, and not only did he defeat Alydar in his Remsen effort, but he was 20 times the horse Bluegrass Cat was.
It was run at one mile from 1959-1972. Originally Posted by Indulto
I agree that the BC has not been good for 2YO and the fact that a BC Juvenile winner has yet to win Derby suggests we may be right. Thanks for the info on the Remsen which was run at 1 m whenever I attended. It would be interesting to see which Derby and/or TC winners had also won at a mile as a 2YO and whether it happened more often when that was the furthest they ran as a 2YO.Originally Posted by the little guy
I think the BC has been bad for all of racing and not just 2YO racing.
The Remsen has been run at 1 1/8 miles for the last 34 years. I didn't realize you haven't followed the game since before that time. Originally Posted by Indulto
While I haven’t set foot on a New York racetrack in many years and, fortunately, well in advance of year-round racing there, I continued to follow the game with varying degrees of participation. In the process, I became more selective in my focus. 2YOs seldom interest me outside of Saratoga. I don’t believe that running them shorter earlier and longer later contributes to soundness subsequently. Ironically, 2YOs race farther now despite further breeder emphasis on speed over stamina.Part 1, thread 2:Originally Posted by the little guy
On the first part, very recently you claimed somewhere else not to know that the Remsen had been a 1 1/8 mile race...even though the last THIRTY FOUR runnings of the race have been at that distance. And furthermore you claimed not to have set foot in a NY track during that period. That information is contradictory to your above comments. I find it hard to believe you " play NYRA simulcasts most every graded stakes weekend " and somehow also missed the Remsen distance switch. Or, perhaps you would like us to believe you have been confused about the distance of the Aqueduct oval all these years.Where did I say that I wasn’t aware of the distance switch? Obviously I didn’t know exactly when it occurred, and thus for how long it had been in effect (which is why I said thanks). Until the last few years, I haven’t had time to follow racing closely after the Breeders’ Cup. Also, the opportunity to spend time together with my family has always precluded any participation over Thanksgiving weekend. Your substantiating that the Remsen used to be run at one mile confirmed my point that at one time it was the longest distance 2YOs ran in NY.
How you were able to turn that into my being untruthful about playing NYRA races is beyond me, but your paranoia is even more visible in the second part.
Part 2, thread 1:Originally Posted by the little guy
Haven't you figured out by now that Indulto feels he is the final sayso and that anyone and everyone is bound by some cosmic force to answer to him...and only him? Even though he does absolutely nothing to support NY racing, and basically racing everywhere, and only really joins internet sites to visit their " off topic " areas, he feels he is qualified to be the final word and all must ultimately answer to him. Originally Posted by Indulto
Apparently you’ve decided to become the new Luke Boardstalker. Unlike some, I use the same pseudonym wherever I go. I get the feeling you’re actually planning to elaborate this time. Just don’t go hiding behind anybody’s apron strings afterwards.Originally Posted by the little guy
Coincidentally, another maniac from the DRF Board recently started posting here and leveled that exact same ludicrous " charge " against me. Gee, I wonder where you too seemed to come up with that laughable lie. For a guy who seems to be after facts you had no problem being unwittingly duped into believing the rantings of an unstable poster. You might want to check those facts as carefully as you dog the facts around here.The operative word here is “some” as opposed to “you.” The purpose of my statement was to indicate that I had nothing to conceal unlike others who are sometimes motivated to separate themselves from previous positions, alliances, or behavior. You can spin it however you like, but while you’re at it, would you explain how revealing that you’re stalking me off-board helps to refute that third-party post, and why that poster is stalking you here?
The “apron strings” were intended to refer to protection by PA. When he is finally fed up enough with our exchanges, one of us will be shown the door. I have no illusions that it won’t be me, but if your posts above are representative of the quality of your contributions …
Just My Opinion:
tlg,
Do you deserve to be held to a higher standard? I think so. As an insider with connections to some of the better minds in racing, it’s fair to assume that you possess compatible intelligence, talents, skills, and accomplishments. Why else would they have anything to do with you? So what is it with the repeated elitism, arrogance, insensitivity, and now pettiness you bring to this board? I’m convinced you have no clue whatsoever as to how you come off in this medium.
I have no misconceptions about how abrasive I frequently appear. Frankly, I enjoy responding in kind to the kind of poster who invites or merits challenging, and who has indicated he/she is capable of giving as good as he/she gets. It amuses me to find subsequent inconsistency and especially hypocrisy, in posts from those same sources.
But well-adjusted people can laugh off the commentary of an anonymous keyboarder no matter how acrimonious. Not so easily does one dismiss disdain directed from someone with proven prowess in the endeavor that draws us together.
Maybe if you weren’t so clueless, you’d appreciate what you have going for you and not only be more forthcoming with insights that don’t reveal trade secrets or confidences, but also be more sensitive to the fact that people without your access can only speculate (usually inaccurately) about things you actually know about. The problem is that few appreciate it when you question their intelligence as you correct them.
Given your own enthusiasm for exposing excesses, eccentricities, and errors expressed by posters -- most of whom have no taste for such endearing encounters -- isn’t it funny that you aren’t quite as entertained when you’re on the other end? Or when your efforts to jokingly engage prove laughable?
I suppose some feel I should be flattered by your efforts and determination to go to the ends of cyberspace to find opportunities that might make me appear foolish, but this clutching at straws of yours suggests there’s more to it -- like maybe trying to incite PA to dispense “justice” and vindicate you in the process.
Now I get it. You can’t locate a legitimate issue over which you can discredit me, so instead you contrive petty intentional misinterpretations to try and accomplish what you consider payback for my challenging your perception that you are the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Get a loaf ….. and a life!
BTW exactly what is the correct format for requesting clarification from he-who-will-not-be-questioned for use by he-who-dares-to-question?
P.S.
To cj, with whom I would prefer not to be in conflict, but who voluntarily takes offense collaterally even when not targeted:
The popularity you enjoy here is considerable and well-justified IMO because besides being knowledgeable and competent, you also appear approachable and generous (even as you “anxiously await” my posts). I know that you’re familiar with my posts elsewhere, so you can verify that while it may be hard to teach this old dog new tricks, my tail never appeared between my legs. As a connoisseur of thread terminators (hilarious post BTW), you might also attest that any proclivity for my having the final word was due more to default than demand.
I respect your defending and supporting your friend because similar loyalties sometimes motivate my own posts, but I hope any future differences between us stem from disagreement on other issues. I don’t believe it’s your intention to force me off the board, but your influence certainly plays a role.
P.P.S.
PA,
It’s getting tiresome looking over my shoulder. Whatever decisions(s) you eventually make, there’s no animosity on my part. I’ve said all that I think needs saying. Perhaps other posters who have not already commented about the fairness or ethics of a) anonymous posting, b) exemption from challenge (celebrity or otherwise), or c) aggressive posting in general -- will do so now.
I’d really like to hear from other posters as to what they come to read, what they don’t want to read, and what drives them away. How are they affected by conflict between other posters? How effective is the ignore facility? What other facilities/measures might minimize conflict more effectively if in fact it even should be?
IMO the problem here is not one of free speech, but of who can speak their mind to whom. What could be more insulting than knowing you’ve been collectively deemed worthy of being insulted? When some are exempted, that is the default for others.
On the other paragraph.....LMFAO!!!!!!!! That is just precious! Coincidentally, another maniac from the DRF Board recently started posting here and leveled that exact same ludicrous " charge " against me. Gee, I wonder where you too seemed to come up with that laughable lie. For a guy who seems to be after facts you had no problem being unwittingly duped into believing the rantings of an unstable poster. You might want to check those facts as carefully as you dog the facts around here.tlg,
Pardon me for saying that your tone didn’t really seem to reflect LMFAOing. Having promised a response, I won't just laugh off your feeble efforts to feel ecstatic by finding excuses to fuel embarrassment through faked examples of failed enterprise. So let’s see if your dog will hunt.
The following are what IMO are relevant excerpts from posts in interaction sequence:
Part 1, thread 1:Originally Posted by Indulto
I tend to agree. I'd like to see all G1s exceed 7 furlongs and more at 12. While I don't favor grading sprint stakes, shorter races for higher purses seem to consistently be more competitive and reflective of past performances. Originally Posted by Indulto
Good point. I neglected to allow for 2YO. Wasn't the Champagne at 1 m once considered the premier race for 2YO and as far as they should go? Originally Posted by the little guy
No.
Essentially the BC, which IMO has had a negative overall affect on top class racing throughout the year, has rendered many once important 2YO races at distances beyond a mile obsolete. Two that come immediately to mind are the Laurel Futurity and the now defunct Young American. Both of these were Grade 1s and were won by an impressive roster of stars. Even the Young American in its short existence was won by the likes of Spectacular Bid and Storm Cat. While both those races were 1 1/16 miles, the Remsen has also been a very important race over many years, with a lot of its runnings contested at 1 1/8 miles. Originally Posted by the little guy
I pointed out only Derby winners over the last 30 years. Hell, I left Believe It off the list as well, and not only did he defeat Alydar in his Remsen effort, but he was 20 times the horse Bluegrass Cat was.
It was run at one mile from 1959-1972. Originally Posted by Indulto
I agree that the BC has not been good for 2YO and the fact that a BC Juvenile winner has yet to win Derby suggests we may be right. Thanks for the info on the Remsen which was run at 1 m whenever I attended. It would be interesting to see which Derby and/or TC winners had also won at a mile as a 2YO and whether it happened more often when that was the furthest they ran as a 2YO.Originally Posted by the little guy
I think the BC has been bad for all of racing and not just 2YO racing.
The Remsen has been run at 1 1/8 miles for the last 34 years. I didn't realize you haven't followed the game since before that time. Originally Posted by Indulto
While I haven’t set foot on a New York racetrack in many years and, fortunately, well in advance of year-round racing there, I continued to follow the game with varying degrees of participation. In the process, I became more selective in my focus. 2YOs seldom interest me outside of Saratoga. I don’t believe that running them shorter earlier and longer later contributes to soundness subsequently. Ironically, 2YOs race farther now despite further breeder emphasis on speed over stamina.Part 1, thread 2:Originally Posted by the little guy
On the first part, very recently you claimed somewhere else not to know that the Remsen had been a 1 1/8 mile race...even though the last THIRTY FOUR runnings of the race have been at that distance. And furthermore you claimed not to have set foot in a NY track during that period. That information is contradictory to your above comments. I find it hard to believe you " play NYRA simulcasts most every graded stakes weekend " and somehow also missed the Remsen distance switch. Or, perhaps you would like us to believe you have been confused about the distance of the Aqueduct oval all these years.Where did I say that I wasn’t aware of the distance switch? Obviously I didn’t know exactly when it occurred, and thus for how long it had been in effect (which is why I said thanks). Until the last few years, I haven’t had time to follow racing closely after the Breeders’ Cup. Also, the opportunity to spend time together with my family has always precluded any participation over Thanksgiving weekend. Your substantiating that the Remsen used to be run at one mile confirmed my point that at one time it was the longest distance 2YOs ran in NY.
How you were able to turn that into my being untruthful about playing NYRA races is beyond me, but your paranoia is even more visible in the second part.
Part 2, thread 1:Originally Posted by the little guy
Haven't you figured out by now that Indulto feels he is the final sayso and that anyone and everyone is bound by some cosmic force to answer to him...and only him? Even though he does absolutely nothing to support NY racing, and basically racing everywhere, and only really joins internet sites to visit their " off topic " areas, he feels he is qualified to be the final word and all must ultimately answer to him. Originally Posted by Indulto
Apparently you’ve decided to become the new Luke Boardstalker. Unlike some, I use the same pseudonym wherever I go. I get the feeling you’re actually planning to elaborate this time. Just don’t go hiding behind anybody’s apron strings afterwards.Originally Posted by the little guy
Coincidentally, another maniac from the DRF Board recently started posting here and leveled that exact same ludicrous " charge " against me. Gee, I wonder where you too seemed to come up with that laughable lie. For a guy who seems to be after facts you had no problem being unwittingly duped into believing the rantings of an unstable poster. You might want to check those facts as carefully as you dog the facts around here.The operative word here is “some” as opposed to “you.” The purpose of my statement was to indicate that I had nothing to conceal unlike others who are sometimes motivated to separate themselves from previous positions, alliances, or behavior. You can spin it however you like, but while you’re at it, would you explain how revealing that you’re stalking me off-board helps to refute that third-party post, and why that poster is stalking you here?
The “apron strings” were intended to refer to protection by PA. When he is finally fed up enough with our exchanges, one of us will be shown the door. I have no illusions that it won’t be me, but if your posts above are representative of the quality of your contributions …
Just My Opinion:
tlg,
Do you deserve to be held to a higher standard? I think so. As an insider with connections to some of the better minds in racing, it’s fair to assume that you possess compatible intelligence, talents, skills, and accomplishments. Why else would they have anything to do with you? So what is it with the repeated elitism, arrogance, insensitivity, and now pettiness you bring to this board? I’m convinced you have no clue whatsoever as to how you come off in this medium.
I have no misconceptions about how abrasive I frequently appear. Frankly, I enjoy responding in kind to the kind of poster who invites or merits challenging, and who has indicated he/she is capable of giving as good as he/she gets. It amuses me to find subsequent inconsistency and especially hypocrisy, in posts from those same sources.
But well-adjusted people can laugh off the commentary of an anonymous keyboarder no matter how acrimonious. Not so easily does one dismiss disdain directed from someone with proven prowess in the endeavor that draws us together.
Maybe if you weren’t so clueless, you’d appreciate what you have going for you and not only be more forthcoming with insights that don’t reveal trade secrets or confidences, but also be more sensitive to the fact that people without your access can only speculate (usually inaccurately) about things you actually know about. The problem is that few appreciate it when you question their intelligence as you correct them.
Given your own enthusiasm for exposing excesses, eccentricities, and errors expressed by posters -- most of whom have no taste for such endearing encounters -- isn’t it funny that you aren’t quite as entertained when you’re on the other end? Or when your efforts to jokingly engage prove laughable?
I suppose some feel I should be flattered by your efforts and determination to go to the ends of cyberspace to find opportunities that might make me appear foolish, but this clutching at straws of yours suggests there’s more to it -- like maybe trying to incite PA to dispense “justice” and vindicate you in the process.
Now I get it. You can’t locate a legitimate issue over which you can discredit me, so instead you contrive petty intentional misinterpretations to try and accomplish what you consider payback for my challenging your perception that you are the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Get a loaf ….. and a life!
BTW exactly what is the correct format for requesting clarification from he-who-will-not-be-questioned for use by he-who-dares-to-question?
P.S.
To cj, with whom I would prefer not to be in conflict, but who voluntarily takes offense collaterally even when not targeted:
The popularity you enjoy here is considerable and well-justified IMO because besides being knowledgeable and competent, you also appear approachable and generous (even as you “anxiously await” my posts). I know that you’re familiar with my posts elsewhere, so you can verify that while it may be hard to teach this old dog new tricks, my tail never appeared between my legs. As a connoisseur of thread terminators (hilarious post BTW), you might also attest that any proclivity for my having the final word was due more to default than demand.
I respect your defending and supporting your friend because similar loyalties sometimes motivate my own posts, but I hope any future differences between us stem from disagreement on other issues. I don’t believe it’s your intention to force me off the board, but your influence certainly plays a role.
P.P.S.
PA,
It’s getting tiresome looking over my shoulder. Whatever decisions(s) you eventually make, there’s no animosity on my part. I’ve said all that I think needs saying. Perhaps other posters who have not already commented about the fairness or ethics of a) anonymous posting, b) exemption from challenge (celebrity or otherwise), or c) aggressive posting in general -- will do so now.
I’d really like to hear from other posters as to what they come to read, what they don’t want to read, and what drives them away. How are they affected by conflict between other posters? How effective is the ignore facility? What other facilities/measures might minimize conflict more effectively if in fact it even should be?
IMO the problem here is not one of free speech, but of who can speak their mind to whom. What could be more insulting than knowing you’ve been collectively deemed worthy of being insulted? When some are exempted, that is the default for others.