Get suspended, go to Bahamas

[Doc]

Learned that Scott Lake is soaking up the sun 'n fun in the Bahamas while he waits out his 30-day suspension dealt by Delaware stewards. Business as usual at Philly, Laurel, New York as his assistants continue to enter horses and stand in the winner's circle for pictures. I know this has been discussed before, but until the authorities wise up and shut down a trainer's operation when they are suspended, it means nothing. Wish I was lounging on some Bahamas beach right now.

Doc

[PaceAdvantage]

What happens when you shut down a couple of big operations, and suddenly, you have trouble filling races? Then what?

I think the key is to punish the owners. Enough owners get stung, they start leaving said trainer, kicking him where it hurts most....the wallet.

[The Hawk]

But how do you punish the owners without banning their horses? If you fine the owners you can bet they'd just get the money out of the trainer, the one who's responsible anyway, one way or the other.

My suggestion would be to increase the punishments. 30 days? Start giving out suspensions in terms of YEARS, and levy serious, crippling fines that will scare any operation. Isn't doping horses akin to fixing a sporting event?

[PaceAdvantage]

But how do you punish the owners without banning their horses? If you fine the owners you can bet they'd just get the money out of the trainer, the one who's responsible anyway, one way or the other.

Ultimately, I think you have to ban these horses who test positive for a meaningful length of time. This will hurt the owner, who has a horse sitting around doing nothing but leaking money.

The current way of doing things isn't much of a deterrent. Someone has to find a way to ratchet it up a notch or two on the pain scale.

[ryesteve]

Someone has to find a way to ratchet it up a notch or two on the pain scale.
I like the idea of big fines... with the money being funneled into the wagering pools, of course :ThmbUp:

[kenwoodallpromos]

It's not too late to take action! Lake is not in the Hall of Fame yet!!
How about this"
For the following year on the circuit, reduce the trainer's stall allotment by 50% for each violation. after 4, lifetime ban from the ciruit.

[BIG49010]

You guys are going after the wrong person, take the VETS into the stewards office, and put them out of business for 3 months. If they have 3 strikes, take their liences away.

[Robert Fischer]

It is a delicate issue.
Punishing the trainers is an indirect message to the owners. We can't have the owners leave the business...

Maybe some balance can be found in something like "3 strikes within x amount of days and/or 6 total infractions..." results in a lifetime ban from the sport.

Banning the animals is dangerous. I think a committee would be required:kiss: . If we ban the 5000 claimer that needs a "milkshake" then it will be like a death sentence on the horse. If we make a quality animal sit out for six months, then that could be an effective punishment. Hard to say...

For now racing is fully anchored within the grey-area of performance enhancing medication.

[kenwoodallpromos]

You guys are going after the wrong person, take the VETS into the stewards office, and put them out of business for 3 months. If they have 3 strikes, take their liences away.
__________
Are the vets always the one who gives medications to the horse? I thought the trainers do that as well. In either case, might as well require full medical records on all horse or at least the ones who get busted. Then go after everybody responsible.
Denying 50% of stalls as punishment for a drug bust does punish everyone connected with the problem- If the horse has to be stabled off the grounds it costs the owner more, makes it more costly and inconvenient for the trainer and vet, could actually give the hoprse a break from the hyper enviroment, gives a certain advantage of more stalls to the honest trainer (or at least one not busted for awhile!).
It also punishes the bigger trainer equially to the small one.

[Doc]

You don't need a vet to give a horse clenbuterol (the drug Lake was suspended for), but you do need to buy it from a vet.

Doc

[kenwoodallpromos]

You don't need a vet to give a horse clenbuterol (the drug Lake was suspended for), but you do need to buy it from a vet.

Doc
"http://www.steroidshop.net/index.php/main_page/index?zenid=91c8140e8b4424c6ac02009cae964075"
This website has all the illegal horseracing crap any trainer could cream of buying without a prescription!! Took me less than 1 minute to find it!!

[kenwoodallpromos]

"http://www.steroidshop.net/index.php/main_page/index?zenid=91c8140e8b4424c6ac02009cae964075"
This website has all the illegal horseracing crap any trainer could cream of buying without a prescription!! Took me less than 1 minute to find it!!
____
I think the track and state boards need to have full accesss to each horse's medical record and any new trainer should also. Lifetime ban for any trainer or vet using a totally banned substance.
__________
I do not understand how racing can bring new fans when the managers (trainers) of the main athletes as well as the track and state boards do not have access to any medical records and the athletes do not get regular diagnostic checkups on their legs, but still may only get felt up.
Claiming a pig in a poke mystery BS which is irrelevant anyway after the horse is claimed, there is not justification for ignoring completely the new methods available for evaluating and tracking a horse's health. Then the industry comlaining about short fields or declining attendance, and seeing top trainers on multiple circuits ruining and breaking down horses at will when there are simple solutions without much risk.

[LurkingBettor]

__________
If the horse has to be stabled off the grounds it costs the owner more.....

Probably not, maybe even considerably less if they just turn it (the horse) out during that period.

[Valuist]

I strongly disagree with penalizing owners for shady tactics of a trainer. The costs in the game are high enough; the sport need more owners, not more hurdles for new owners. The trainers are the ones who know who's getting needled. They should pay the price.

[njcurveball]

I strongly disagree with penalizing owners for shady tactics of a trainer.

Totally agree on this one, there are many different types of owners, some actually work the horse in the morning, others will rub it down or walk it after the morning work.

Many do not even go to the track when the horse races. They simply receive a few phone calls telling how the horse is doing.

This doesn't even take into account the groups of people who buy 5 to 10% each.

Laws have to be consistent across the board. Many things proposed here are "pie in the sky" unless you are running a Local Moose Lodge.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Drug Violation Punishment

The way I see it, racing needs ways to punish trainers who violate drug policies so that there is real prevention as well as heing fair across the board to bettors, owners, and trainers of competing horses. The way racing is set up now, violators are caught well past time to prevent problems, and that allows the race being fixed to advantage bettors, trainers, and owners by insufficient punishment that hurts small trainers much more than the trainers with larger stables.
As I see things, the 3 most important things to trainers are money, stall space, and weight off.
Here are my suggestions:
First of all, all entrants in stakes races should have testing done prior to the start of the 1st race on the card on the day of the stakes race, and immediate testing be done for CO2 and totally banned substances. Any horse caught needs to be scratched prior to that stakes race. All punishments would be in effect regardless of the finish position of the horse in violation and in additionj to current punishments.
1) Money- for CO2 or totally banned substance, a fine levied equal to the winner's share of the violated race. For an overage of a legal substance, a fine levied equal to 10% of the winner's share of the affected race.
2) Stall space- For each violation of any drug rule, 50% reduction of the currently alloted stalll space for the next meet on that ciruit or at that track regardless of the length of that meet. If more than 2 violations, carryovers to future meets.
3) Weight off- for each violation of any drug rule, each of the trainer's runners will carry 2 lbs extra weight in addition to any legally required in the condition book for the length of the next meet. (No limit on the usage of apprentices by the trainer).
___________________________
Owners are punished enough? what punishment? Being allowed to keep winning from a fixed race for many months and only having to pay back that amount?
As far as less cost if their horse is taken out of training:that will allow clean owners to win, clean trainers to get more stalls,punish ownerand give the horse who ran with illegally suppressed pain a chance to properly recover- I have no problem with that!
I said nothing about extra punishment of the owner or horse- if the owner gives the horse to another trainer to train the horse goes on, and maybe the only horse left will be those that the trainer has a part of!
____
Pie in the sky? Of course; But then again, last year so was my ideas about better examinations and clamping down on major injuries.