N974B Smith, W.

[46zilzal]

all hail big brother.
U.S. rates travelers for terror risk

By Michael J. Sniffen / Associated Press

WASHINGTON - Without their knowledge, millions of Americans and foreigners crossing U.S. borders in the past four years have been assigned scores generated by U.S. government computers rating the risk that the travelers are terrorists or criminals.

The travelers are not allowed to see or directly challenge these risk assessments, which the government intends to keep on file for 40 years.

The government calls the system critical to national security following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. Some privacy advocates call it one of the most intrusive and risky schemes yet mounted in the name of anti-terrorism efforts.

Virtually every person entering and leaving the United States by air, sea or land is scored by the Homeland Security Department's Automated Targeting System, or ATS. The scores are based on ATS' analysis of their travel records and other data, including items such as where they are from, how they paid for tickets, their motor vehicle records, past one-way travel, seating preference and what kind of meal they ordered.

[luv_america]

Thankfully based on your postings here you would be identified as a potential risk. This combined with your obvious hatred of the United States gets you the extra pat down. That's just too bad.

Now we're starting to make sense. Using technology and intelligence to profile for potential terrorists might actually SAVE innocent American lives. Too bad that you only care about the inconviences to the enemy among us.

[46zilzal]

as I have oft responded: yes the U.S. gubment closely monitors racing off topic sections to connect the dots to us terrusts!

[PaceAdvantage]

Yup 46, we should let ANYBODY into and out of the US at ANY TIME they PLEASE, NO QUESTIONS ASKED.

That's your policy, I take it....

No big brother, no law enforcement.....anarchy rules.

And oh yeah, YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED to own a gun....


Good luck, and God bless ya.....

[DJofSD]

zz, time to hunker down. Stay home and forget about traveling abroad. Use cash. Don't surf the web unless you're using an anonymizer for your browser. Don't use a cell phone or if you do, at least turn it off when you're intransit or visiting places you don't want to be known that you frequent. Use your old dot matrix printer. Sell your car and only use a bicycle. Get cosmetic surgery on your face. Stay our of the neighborhood mosque.

I'm sure I missed a few but those would be a good start to dropping off the RADAR screen at least a little. And move to Canada, you're suppose to be much safer there or at least that's what I've been led to believe.

[The Judge]

Just admitting it. This is nothing new it was probabaly not as wide spread as it is now. Had a friend who was active in the 60's he got checked extra everytime. It didn't take long to figure he was on some sort of list this was before and after 9-11. Before 9-11 it was normally travel outside of the U.S. after it was both. No criminal record that I am aware of.

[JustRalph]

Don't surf the web unless you're using an anonymizer for your browser.

they don't work........... as long as the service provider can be served a warrant......you can be found. Been there, done that

[DJofSD]

JR, I realize surfing the web even when using an shield does not provide absolute protection. There's a certain amount of sarcasm in my post.

Oh ya, and forget about borrowing books from the library and renting videos.

[rastajenk]

If the Feds didn't track this kind of activity, surely some future commission would recommend it in order to "connect the dots."

[JPinMaryland]

Library books are probably still pretty safe. Internet surfing and phone calls, that was just too obvious. Why was anybody suprised about that?

SPeaking of which. Is there any more talk in congress about the issue of the phone records, now that the dem. control both houses?

[Secretariat]

they don't work........... as long as the service provider can be served a warrant......you can be found. Been there, done that

JR,

Great avatar. Always a big admirer of Humphrey Bogart. Good biography on this site:

http://www.biogs.com/famous/bogarthumphrey.html

Here's an excerpt:

Bogart described himself as: "Democrat in politics, Episcopalian by upbringing. dissenter by disposition." He had an admiration of Roosevelt and a contempt for Senator Joseph McCarthy.

[kenwoodallpromos]

That is why they say too much waste and bloted Govt- If you do not want to claasified as a high risk, just order pork rinds and soda with caffeine.

[JustRalph]

JR, I realize surfing the web even when using an shield does not provide absolute protection. There's a certain amount of sarcasm in my post.

Oh ya, and forget about borrowing books from the library and renting videos.

yeah, but I wouldn't want someone on this board to think that they could log on to one of those anonomyzer sites and send an email or whatever. We do have some on here that aren't computer experts. Just being careful, that's all. The hell you can have to go through (not to mention the legal fee's) for getting caught sending an email or whatever through one of those sites is incredible. Been there, done that, negotiated the settlement for one of my technicians etc. It ain't fun.............

[chickenhead]

this is exactly why I use carrier pigeons for all the important stuff...

[Tom]

JR,

Great avatar. Always a big admirer of Humphrey Bogart. Good biography on this site:

http://www.biogs.com/famous/bogarthumphrey.html

Here's an excerpt:

Bogart described himself as: "Democrat in politics, Episcopalian by upbringing. dissenter by disposition." He had an admiration of Roosevelt and a contempt for Senator Joseph McCarthy.

You support McCarthy??????

[Tom]

So, does this mena we know how many illegals are really here, and who they are and where they are?
When we get serious about national security, come talk to me, but right now, we are being led by total incompetant morons who are padding thier own personal gain at our expenses. Chertoff is a joke - the Curly of government.

[Suff]

I just walk around airports now in total amusement.


The new policy now is the the 3-1-1 policy. Signs all over the airport...and the announcements are just to funny...

Dear Traveler

In order to make it simple and easy remember the TSA's Three One One rule.

That's

No Liquids or gels in in containers larger than 3 ounces

Placed in one, one quart bag with only a Zip lock closer, and must be clear and must be plastic, and only one per passenger.

Unless its medication, or baby formula or milk and these don't have to be a ZIP LOCK bag but they have to be in one bag.

Only for one short trip


Remember 3-1-1 its easy and simple...

AND ASININE!:lol:



Even the clear wrapping that comes when you buy a new product is considered wrapping.



Do not wrap gifts. Security officers will unwrap them .

Apply 3-1-1 to gifts. 3-1-1 isn’t just about shampoo and toothpaste. Food items such as jams, salsas, sauces, syrups and dips will not be allowed through the checkpoint unless they are in containers three ounces or less and in the passenger’s one quart zip-top bag. This applies to gift items including lotions, creams, scented oil, liquid soaps, perfumes, and even snow globes, that are in excess of three ounces -- even if they are in sealed gift packs.

[DJofSD]

Whine, whine, whine.

You want the government to do something but as soon as there's the slightest inconvenience you pitch a bitch.

Get over yourself.

[Tom]

I'm with SUff on this one - totally stupid, totally ineffective.
Why a quart bag only, not a gallon bag?
Why 3 ounces.

Two terroists on the same flight now have 6 ounces.
Is 6 pounces enough to do harm? Yes or no.
If yes, you now have a policy that will prevent nothing.
If no, you now have more government stupidity doing nothing.

[DJofSD]

Easy solution: no carry on baggage -- period. Check everything. Then you won't have to debate the silliness of 1 oz/1 quart v. some other sizes.

And remember when hijacking started 30+ years ago? Some pundit suggested all passengers be board buck naked. Add that to the requirements to travel and you won't have any problems!

[Tom]

And remember when hijacking started 30+ years ago? Some pundit suggested all passengers be board buck naked. Add that to the requirements to travel and you won't have any problems!

Unless you get stuck in a middle seat! :eek::eek:

[46zilzal]

Easy solution: no carry on baggage -- period. Check everything.

good idea

[Bala]

Don't know where to put this – it concerns four amender rights.....

A 23 year-old senior at UCLA, Mostafa Tabatabainejad, a U.S. citizen by birth, was shocked with a Taser five times by UCLA police after failing to show his ID card in the library. Tabatabainejad is of Iranian descent.

The incident, which was caught by a student on his cell phone camera, occurred around 11 p.m. on November 21, 2006, in UCLA's Powell library. Reports of the event vary: some students have said that when campus police arrived, Tabatabainejad was already leaving. University authorities, however, say that he refused repeated requests by community service officers and regular campus police to show ID or leave. ID cards are required in the library after 11 p.m.


Video: "Student Tasered by police for not showing ID"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyvrqcxNIFs



____________________________
Pull the wool over your own eyes.

[Tom]

Next time, I bet the moron shows his ID.
He got what he asked for. Attention.
We should taz more people who get smart like that.
Ever watch COPS and thinkg to yourself - turn of the camera and whup this idiot's ass but good. Let hem show up next on the "Critical Hour." :lol:

[richrosa]

I've flown 100,000 miles easy this year. Probably closer to 150,000. Take this for what its worth, but frequent travelers do not complain about these restrictions so long as the rules are clear and consistently applied. Since the TSA took over airport screening from the inferior contractors, these restrictions are consistent.

Next time you go through security, look at the business guy. He runs through flawlessly, and only cares about his safety.

I am a strong proponent of the new frequent traveler program where you voluntarily submit to screening and background checks to get through security quicker. I am also a strong proponent of profiling and scoring airport users.

[Tom]

Interesting article in Popular Scinece recently - screeners miss about 25% oc contraband items. I think this is due to two things:

1. Far too much emphasis on bullshit stuff like the 3-1-1 crap. It doesn't do one iota to improve securitry, but it wastes time.
2. Incompetant, lazy, screeners.

I used to travel extensivley, but not so the last year. Thank GOD!
As far I am concerned, flying is no longer a viable mode of transportation.
Next time I need to travel far, I'll take an extra day, buy a bottle of Wild Turkey and grab a bus.

[Bala]

"..................Incompetant, lazy, screeners..........."
http://www.americandaily.com/article/16621
"Federal agents on Wednesday arrested six illegal aliens who possessed security badges allowing them access to restricted areas within the Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport and onto the tarmac. The illegal aliens were working for T.C. Drywall, Inc., based in Alpharetta, GA according to Immigration and Customs Enforcement."

"The aliens were arrested after they were determined to be illegally residing and working in the United States. The arrested men are all citizens of Mexico."



__________
Go Big Blue!

[Steve 'StatMan']

Here's the link (same as the Flatulence - Interupted Flight thread)

Here's defintely a case where the person ignores rules, and has been from flying American airlilnes for a while.

Imagine her passenger flying score just got, justifably, much worse.

But at least it's in a separate system, so she shouldn't have problems in other parts of her life. Shouldn't affect her, at least not until she orders pizza in 2020. :rolleyes:

http://www.wbir.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=40210

[rrpic6]

Easy solution: no carry on baggage -- period. Check everything. Then you won't have to debate the silliness of 1 oz/1 quart v. some other sizes.

And remember when hijacking started 30+ years ago? Some pundit suggested all passengers be board buck naked. Add that to the requirements to travel and you won't have any problems!

The best All in the Family episode of all time was when Archie Bunker went on TV to give an editorial about hijack prevention. His plan was to give each passenger a gun as they boarded. If someone tried to hijack the plane, everyone else would shoot.

[Suff]

Whine, whine, whine.

You want the government to do something but as soon as there's the slightest inconvenience you pitch a bitch.

Get over yourself.

Hey do you live alone? This is one big country here. Do you know how many things people shrug thier shoulders at because it is ,....just the way it is?

These cock-a-mamey policies are just that... GA',Barge

I'm saying it now before the whole country is shrugging thier shoulders

[PaceAdvantage]

Don't you get it though? The gov't was not PROACTIVE when it came to terrorism (Bush #1, Clinton, Bush #2 - pre 9/11) and they were criticized for it.....now Bush #2 is doing something and you criticize it as too much or useless.....

WTF?

[Suff]

Don't you get it though? The gov't was not PROACTIVE when it came to terrorism (Bush #1, Clinton, Bush #2 - pre 9/11) and they were criticized for it.....now Bush #2 is doing something and you criticize it as too much or useless.....

WTF?

The biggest myth is that the risk of terror is substancial. Its not. The facts are on my side. The second myth is that the measures are for safety.

Read Samual Huntington wikipedia profile to understand Corporations requiring uniformity in society.

The other Myth is that things like this are Stagnant. Rich Rosa says he thinks its all good. Well given the choice of waiting in long lines and offering personal data I can see where most people see that as beneficial.

Until the day someone running TSA views Gambling as a serious vice. And in TSA's estimation Gambling demonstrates weakness of character. Weakness that pose's a threat. Perhaps his gambling puts him in debt enough that cooperating with a criminal might happen. Then they prohibit Rich from traveling at all. Or require him to go through procedures that strain his business. they score him a risk and gather apsects of his entire life in the name of safety. They label his entire family.

You think what I'm talking about is remote? Or far off? I"ll tell you , that I feel that these times are upon us.

And just like the the poem says ..When they came for the Jews, I was'nt Jewish so I did not stand up. When they come for gamblers.....who will stand up?

[Tom]

Coincidence, Boston was the kick off place for many of the death pilots 9-11-01. Maybe they thought no one there considered terrorism a threat?

NYC
DC
London
Spain
Bali

Near miss LA, but good old waterboarding comes through.
Yeah, there is no threat, Suff, that facts, like you say, are on your side! :lol::lol::eek:

[Suff]

, are on your side! :lol::lol::eek:

The facts are on my side. And your on my ass. Lately, everytime I make a post your two steps behind me with some nonsensical or wise crack remark.

Did'nt you have me on ignore or something previously? Can that happen again? I'd appreciatte it.

[DJofSD]

The facts are on my side.

Spoken like a true neocon.

[PaceAdvantage]

So Suff, I can conclude by your recent posts that you thought Bush and all the FEDS and Presidents before him were doing a good job in combating and preventing terrorism, and 9/11 was a just a case of "oops....must of fallen through the cracks on that one!"

This is what I can't reconcile. On the one hand, massive criticisms were leveled at BUSH and the FEDERAL GOV'T post-9/11 for not doing enough, not "connecting the dots".....but five years later, and zero attacks, the criticism continues, only in your case, they are doing TOO MUCH and violating our personal freedoms.

I guess the old adage "you're damned if you do" would apply wonderfully in this instance.

[Tom]

The facts are on my side. And your on my ass. Lately, everytime I make a post your two steps behind me with some nonsensical or wise crack remark.

Did'nt you have me on ignore or something previously? Can that happen again? I'd appreciatte it.

Think of me as your conscience.