get in line, here they come

[skate]

associated press, according to some creditable bloggers are 'so much lying'.

seems like they rely on Capt. Jamil Hussein to give them info in Iraq. he gave AP the story last week? about the torched (6 people) and the four Mosque.

also meany other stories from missing people.

Capt. Jamil Hussein does not exist, so says the Gov of Iraq.:lol: ;)


oh this is getting too beautiful

[Tom]

I think bloggers are the evolution of those who used to write pros on bathroom walls. For a good time, call........only now it's for a good time click on WWW..........

[luv_america]

Did anyone say Bill Burkett or Jayson Blair?

[JPinMaryland]

I think bloggers are the evolution of those who used to write pros on bathroom walls. For a good time, call........only now it's for a good time click on WWW..........

Tom can you post the rest of that URL, please? It's not working.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Capt. Jamil Who's saying?

[Tom]

Tom can you post the rest of that URL, please? It's not working.

www.foragoodtimecalljpinmaryland.com (http://www.foragoodtimecalljpinaryland.com)

[Suff]

[QUOTE=skate]associated press, according to some creditable bloggers are 'so much lying'.

seems like they rely on Capt. Jamil Hussein to give them info in Iraq. he gave AP the story last week? about the torched (6 people) and the four Mosque.

also meany other stories from missing people.

Capt. Jamil Hussein does not exist, so says the Gov of Iraq.:lol: ;)





NEW YORK : Jan 4 2007 The Associated Press has just sent E&P the following dispatch from Baghdad, as it was about to be distributed on its wire. The existence of Jamil Hussein had been hotly disputed by conservative bloggers, some Iraqi officials and the U.S. military in recent weeks.


BAGHDAD (AP) -- The Interior Ministry acknowledged Thursday that an Iraqi police officer whose existence had been denied by the Iraqis and the U.S. military is in fact an active member of the force, and said he now faces arrest for speaking to the media.

The U.S. military and the Iraqi Interior Ministry raised the doubts about Hussein in questioning the veracity of the AP's initial reporting on the incident, and the Iraqi ministry suggested that many news organization were giving a distorted, exaggerated picture of the conflict in Iraq. Some Internet bloggers spread and amplified these doubts, accusing the AP of having made up Hussein's identity in order to disseminate false news about the war.






oh this is getting too beautiful

you mean ugly.

[skate]

yep, it kinda takes the air out. who knows from what?

lots of doubtful stories and by the time things get ironed out, the damage has been done da done done...

had a guy tell me last week about the total of deaths in Iraq being 400,000. so at least they are bringing some figures (even tho outlandish) more believable.
i guess people just tose and tose...

just have to be a good ducker
or skater

[Suff]

...

just have to be a good ducker
or skater

Yes...It certainly is tough. Its very hard if not impossible to know who is telling the truth.






I can tell you what I think? Things are bad. So bad they are unspeakable. When the curtain gets pulled back from this charade it will go down as one of the worst human tragedies in Modern Times. Things are so muffled, so muddied, so distorted, so out of control that Human Beings are committing acts of violence to difficult to even fathom. In this story, 6 people were dragged from a house of worship, doused with Kerosone and burned alive in front of women and children.

Everyday they are finding 30 to 70 bodies, most of whom have been tortured and disfigured. Thier bodies riddled with Bullets. Remember Skate, this is what we know. This is what trickles back to us, or things we find in the pursuit of information. I submit to you that we know only a small percentage of the Hell that is Iraq. And the Iraq Study Group said as much:




Near the end of the ISG report, the commission wrote that there is "significant underreporting of the violence in Iraq" -- a finding that takes on particular significance considering President Bush's repeated assertion that his Iraq policy is tied to the "conditions on the ground." According to the commission, the Department of Defense "standard" for recording acts of violence functions "as a filter to keep events out of reports and databases" and thus has inaccurately depicted the "events on the ground."

The commission proceeded to recommend that the "Director of National Intelligence and the Secretary of Defense should ... institute immediate changes in the collection of data about violence and the sources of violence in Iraq to provide a more accurate picture of events on the ground."



Things are bad there Skate. Very bad. Quoting Thomas Jefferson:

If There is a God, I pray he's not Just.







We can tell you definitively that the primary source of this story, police Capt. Jamil Hussein, is not a Baghdad police officer or an MOI employee. We verified this fact with the MOI through the Coalition Police Assistance Training Team...

Unless you have a credible source to corroborate the story of the people being burned alive, we respectfully request that AP issue a retraction, or a correction at a minimum, acknowledging that the source named in the story is not who he claimed he was. MNC-I and MNF-I are always available and willing to verify events and provide as much information as possible when asked.

Very respectfully,

Michael Dean
Lieutenant, U.S. Navy
MNC-I Joint Operations Center
Public Affairs Officer

[Bala]

Things are bad. So bad they are unspeakable. Don't know where else to place this.

"The situation in Darfur continues to deteriorate. A famine threatens to drive mortality rates above the current toll of 10,000 per month. The regime violates a cease-fire pact with impunity and obstructs humanitarian aid."

".....the world practices moral equivalency by treating warring parties equally, calling for negotiations and urging cease-fires rather than confronting perpetrators of mass killing. In Darfur's case, the United Nations Security Council imposed an arms embargo, but not on the government, which sponsors....."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2005-03-01-darfur-edit_x.htm


_________________________________________
The worst sin towards our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them; that's the essence of inhumanity. ~ George Bernard Shaw

When cruelty is inflicted on innocent people, it discredits whatever cause. ~ Ronald Reagan

[Suff]

Don't know where else to place this.



Well, since this thread is about Iraq, and specfically the news flow out of Iraq you picked an odd place.

If there isn't an existing thread on the situation on Darfur, then you might of thought to start one, so as to express your concerns.

[Show Me the Wire]

It is all related, both situations are deteriating and what source do you believe. Definite nexus.

[Suff]

It is all related, both situations are deteriating and what source do you believe. Definite nexus.

I don't agree.

However, can you define and demonstrate the forces in Darfur that are filtering your available information with the express purpose of manipulating your opinion?

My Opinion on the Iraq condition is JUST that. The thread , as I see it , is about propoganda. The who whats and whys of it.

Using another REAL-LIFE demonstration...

On the ISG's report of systematic underreporting of Iraq Violence


Print media: The New York Times made no mention of the Pentagon's "systematic[]" underreporting of the violence in any of its four December 7 articles on the subject. The front-page December 7 Wall Street Journal article on the commission's findings also ignored this finding


Broadcast networks: On both the December 6 edition of the Evening News and the December 7 edition of The Early Show, CBS failed to report on this disclosure.

Cable news networks: Neither CNN nor Fox News reported this finding.


In the ISG report "Lack of Translators" was a priority reason for our inability to gather intelligence to quell the violence

Lack of Arabic Speakers
In cataloguing the various deficiencies of the ongoing U.S. efforts in Iraq, the commission repeatedly pointed out the lack of fluent Arabic speakers among U.S. personnel.

But in their coverage of the ISG report, few news outlets brought up this disclosure:

Print media: The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, the Los Angeles Times, USA Today, and the Associated Press all ignored the severe need for more U.S. personnel fluent in Arabic.

Broadcast networks: Neither the CBS Evening News nor NBC's Nightly News mentioned this disclosure.

Cable news networks: Both MSNBC and Fox News failed to report this finding.

And for the Frugal Republicans on PA This from the ISG
the public interest is not well served by the government's preparation, presentation, and review of the budget for the war in Iraq," the commission highlighted the administration's persistent use of emergency supplemental appropriations requests to "[c]ircumvent[] the budget process." It recommended that "[c]osts for the war in Iraq should be included in the President's annual budget request, starting in FY 2008."

While it is billions of taxpayer dollars that are passing through Congress "with perfunctory review" and being diverted to "special spending projects,


Print media: The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal, USA Today, and the Associated Press all ignored that the commission strongly criticized the Bush administration's handling of the Iraq spending requests. The Los Angeles Times also ignored this part of the report in its December 7 news articles, but highlighted in an editorial that the commission "call[ed] out the Bush administration for its excessive reliance on supplemental appropriations bills."

Broadcast networks: None of the three network news outlets -- on either their December 6 newscasts or their December 7 morning shows -- reported on this recommendation.

Cable news networks: Both CNN and MSNBC made no mention of this finding.




I'll say it again. Liberal Media.....:lol:

[Show Me the Wire]

Suff:

You said it "propoganda". Who to believe about a deteriating situation.

[Suff]

Suff:

You said it "propoganda". Who to believe about a deteriating situation.

So you can't? Provide a source that is filtering your information about Darfur to manipulate your opinion? To complete the nexus you see? No?

[Show Me the Wire]

All the major media outlets are. Filtering via no coverage.

[Suff]

All the major media outlets are. Filtering via no coverage.

Yea.. thats what I thought you would say. Or something else that only flys on a message board. :D

[Show Me the Wire]

I learn from observation and I have had plenty of opportunity to observe ;)

[Suff]

I learn

I'd disagree with that.

You can have the thread....since its lost its way.

[Show Me the Wire]

Aww, Suff, don't be that way. I was engaging you in jovial banter, whilst practicing my zizzaz posting style. You may have your thread back. I misjudged the importance of this thread to you.

[Suff]

Better get serious

[Suff]

No matter what he does, his Daddy will never approve of him enough.

[PaceAdvantage]

I can tell you what I think? Things are bad. So bad they are unspeakable. When the curtain gets pulled back from this charade it will go down as one of the worst human tragedies in Modern Times. Things are so muffled, so muddied, so distorted, so out of control that Human Beings are committing acts of violence to difficult to even fathom. In this story, 6 people were dragged from a house of worship, doused with Kerosone and burned alive in front of women and children.


Obviously, what is going on now in Iraq was bound to happen, even if the US did not invade. Saddam wasn't going to rule forever. Eventually, this kind of violence was going to rear its ugly head. I think we can all agree on that fact.

[Secretariat]

Obviously, what is going on now in Iraq was bound to happen, even if the US did not invade. Saddam wasn't going to rule forever. Eventually, this kind of violence was going to rear its ugly head. I think we can all agree on that fact.

You're kidding me? Is this the new GOP line?

[Show Me the Wire]

oppressed majority will eventually seek revenge aagainst its minority oppressor, it is a truism.

zizzaz

[Tom]

Sec, you disagree with that?
Please elaborate - what specifially do you not agree with?

[Suff]

Obviously, what is going on now in Iraq was bound to happen, even if the US did not invade. Saddam wasn't going to rule forever. Eventually, this kind of violence was going to rear its ugly head. I think we can all agree on that fact.




Hmm. You think? Common sense perhaps? All the more amazing that what is clearly apparent to you....was not quite as apparent to the people executing the campaign. The head man said we'd be greeted as liberators. And he was'nt some Amway salesman! He had done business with Hussien, and been in Government 30 years, including a stint as Secy of Defense previously.
The fact is, You don't know if your statement is true, and I don't know if its untrue. The train is off the tracks....and the factors that came into play that got us to this point are to many, and varied , to truly know if one decison either way may have led to different results.

President Bush will be giving a major speech this Wendsday night. He's going to ask congress for $2 Billion for an Iraq Job's Program
The most immediate element of the new jobs program would amount to a major expansion of what is known in the military as the Commander’s Emergency Response Program, which provides money to local officers to put civilians to work as a way of reducing resistance to the American presence in neighborhoods. While the effort has had some successes, they have largely been temporary. As a senior White House official noted in an interview recently, “You’d go into a neighborhood, clear it, try to hold it, and come back later and discover that it’s all been shattered.”

Bush is like the compulsive gambler who wants to Borrow ONE MORE $20.00 bill because he's certain the slot machine is about to pay out.

Jobs? Here's what they did with thier first crack at the Jobs...


The hiring process involved questions that would have landed a private-sector employer in jail. They asked people what their views on Roe v. Wade were, whether they believed in capital punishment. People were asked who they voted for for president



Col. THOMAS X. HAMMES Counterinsurgency Adviser, CPA: The plans counterpart, who I had to work with in the Ministry of Interior, was a 25-year old. It was his first job after college. So I asked him- I said, "That's pretty interesting. How big a plan cell do you have?" He said, "I have four guys." I said, "That's pretty small." He said, "Yes, but we're really tight because we're frat brothers." I never in my life thought I would encounter "frat brothers" and "strategic planners" in the same sentence



The civilians at the CPA, including many of these young 20-something Republican loyalists who came, regarded the soldiers as their errand boys -- their drivers, their couriers, their coffee fetchers. We're talking people who were soldiers in their 40s and people who were majors and colonels being forced to work for these young kids and being very disrespected

THOMAS E. RICKS: Garner had briefed Rumsfeld on de-Ba'athification . He had briefed Condi Rice on de-Ba'athification. And he had, I thought, a fairly cold-hearted but realistic assessment, which is the Ba'athists are an Iraqi problem, and more or less, let the Iraqis take care of it. They know who the really bad guys are and they will kill them. And he was pretty content to let that happen.
Lt. Gen. JAY GARNER: So we went in and we talked to Ambassador Bremer for a few minutes. And I said, "You know, this is too deep." I said, "Give Charlie and I about 45 minutes to an hour. Let us digest this thing, and then let us recommend some changes to you and come back here, and we'll get on the phone with Rumsfeld to see if we can't soften this a bit."

THOMAS E. RICKS: And Bremer kind of says, "Look, you don't understand. I'm not asking you, I'm telling you. This is what I'm going to do. I'm not asking for your advice." And they argue a bit more. And finally, Bremer says, "Look, I have my orders. This is what I'm doing."

Lt. Gen. JAY GARNER: And so I said, "Well, Charlie, what do you think?" And to the best of my memory, Charlie said, "Well, if you do this, you're going to drive 30,000 to 50,000 Ba'athists underground by nightfall. And the number's closer to 50,000 than it is 30,000."

Amb. L. PAUL BREMER: There were a lot of big things that first five days. There were a lot of big things the first 48 hours. So I don't remember every meeting. I don't say it didn't happen, all I'm- I knew there were concerns. I knew the agency made the assessment that there were about 20,000 people to be thrown out of work. And I judged in the end that that was a risk that we were worth- we were willing to take.





My favorite example of this was, on Garner's team, there's a guy named Skip Burkle, who's an assistant administrator at the U.S. Agency for International Development . Skip is described by his colleagues as one of the foremost experts in post-conflict public health around the world. It was his job to rehabilitate Iraq's health care system. Burkle has a medical degree, four postgraduate degrees. He's got purple hearts. He served in Kosovo and in Somalia, in Haiti.

But a week into it he gets an e-mail from his senior official back in Washington, a friend of his, saying the White House wants a loyalist on the job, and in his place was a guy named Jim Haveman. He was no doctor. He was the director of community health in Michigan. His pal, the Republican governor of Michigan, John Engler, contacted Tommy Thompson, the secretary of health and human services. He contacted Paul Wolfowitz and said, "Hey, this guy Haveman would be really good."

Haveman's international experience really was limited to sort of doing outreach for the [u]Dutch Reform Church. He had worked previously at an adoption agency where they encouraged women not to have abortions. He'd never worked in the Middle East. He never had any experience in post-conflict health care. But he was the guy the administration saw fit to send out there.

He got out there, and he came up with ideas like not devoting much money to fixing Iraq's emergency rooms, even though injuries from car bombings and insurgent attacks were probably the single largest health crisis the country is facing. Instead, he brought in a team of people to go line by line through the list of drugs that the country was importing to try to figure out which ones could be taken off the list. He wanted to develop a new formula. Why did he want to do this? Because in Michigan, he had saved souls.

[Suff]

That's enough. I have more. All verifiable.


God knows I've suffered consequences. The majority of which I had coming. Sometimes I took them with a smile...sometimes I sucked it up, bit down hard on the bit and took them like a gut shot.

Now........,You wanna hire Frat Boys and Unqualified Evangelicals... that's fine. If you own a pizza shop in Biloxi Missisipii.

These guys wanted to be tough guys.. They did'nt want to ask anyone what they thought, they wanted to TELL YOU how it was going to be.

And that's fine to. I can roll with that.

But if you want to be a gangster?, if you want to be a Tough guy?, then you follow the rules. Big Boys-Big Rules.

These fella's don't want to follow the rules. They want a do over.....They want a oopps. But it don't work that way.

I 100% support the impeachment of the President. I believe it would be derliction of duty if the Congress did not. I'm not moved or impressed by any other arguement or the person making it.

72& of America do not support Bush's Iraq agenda. No one will be listening when he gives his speech. It's over. He's done. The Democrats won't give him more troops, or money.

That time is over. It's consequences time now.

[Tom]

The consequences of electing gutless libs in time of war. Yup. I agree.
Consquence time.
Elect losers, expect to lose.

[Secretariat]

Sec, you disagree with that?
Please elaborate - what specifially do you not agree with?

I agree on the part that Saddam was not going to rule forever. I disagree with everything else.

The assertion that:

a) Obviously, what is going on now in Iraq was bound to happen, even if the US did not invade.

Where do you get that from?

b) Eventually, this kind of violence was going to rear its ugly head. I think we can all agree on that fact.

Where do you get that from?

There was nothing going on in Iraq at the time we began bombing. Nothing even remotely close. More civilians have been killed in Iraq since our invasion than in over the decade before.

[Show Me the Wire]

I agree on the part that Saddam was not going to rule forever. I disagree with everything else.

The assertion that:

a) Obviously, what is going on now in Iraq was bound to happen, even if the US did not invade.

Where do you get that from?

b) Eventually, this kind of violence was going to rear its ugly head. I think we can all agree on that fact.

Where do you get that from?

There was nothing going on in Iraq at the time we began bombing. Nothing even remotely close. More civilians have been killed in Iraq since our invasion than in over the decade before.

See post #25. supra.

[PaceAdvantage]

I agree on the part that Saddam was not going to rule forever. I disagree with everything else.

The assertion that:

a) Obviously, what is going on now in Iraq was bound to happen, even if the US did not invade.

Where do you get that from?

b) Eventually, this kind of violence was going to rear its ugly head. I think we can all agree on that fact.

Where do you get that from?

There was nothing going on in Iraq at the time we began bombing. Nothing even remotely close. More civilians have been killed in Iraq since our invasion than in over the decade before.

If you don't believe that the Iraqi on Iraqi violence that we're currently seeing wasn't bound to happen at some point in the future whether or not the US invaded in March 2003, then you are the 2nd most delusional member of this message board. And again, that's not a flame, it's my honest-to-God opinion.

Do you think that kind of BIGOTED HATRED and VIOLENCE just appeared in March 2003? Really? You think that kind of stuff just happens overnight?

Let me fill you in: Saddam, the man EVERYONE feared in Iraq, was taken out, thus RELEASING the RACIST, BIGOTED GENIE FROM THE IRAQI BOTTLE. We didn't cause the BIGOTRY, but we allowed it to see the light of day SOONER than it may have had Saddam continued to rule for another 20 years.

Simple enough to understand, Sec?

Was the Bush admin in error for not anticipating this kind of violence? Perhaps. Or perhaps they DID anticipate it, and perhaps they planned on USING it to their advantage.

One never knows....

[PlanB]

Was the Bush admin in error for not anticipating this kind of violence? Perhaps. Or perhaps they DID anticipate it, and perhaps they planned on USING it to their advantage.

One never knows....

To whose advantage? I just cannot see Bush 43 being that smart to anticpate that scenario, or even acting smart after the scenario happens. Maybe it's some pycho law at work, but I think Bush suppoters should meditate on why they cling to this man IN SPITE of his failures.

[PaceAdvantage]

To whose advantage? I just cannot see Bush 43 being that smart to anticpate that scenario, or even acting smart after the scenario happens. Maybe it's some pycho law at work, but I think Bush suppoters should meditate on why they cling to this man IN SPITE of his failures.

Who's clinging? Not me. I'm just being objective.

I suggest you assess the United States in a more objective fashion as well.

[skate]

To whose advantage? I just cannot see Bush 43 being that smart to anticpate that scenario, or even acting smart after the scenario happens. Maybe it's some pycho law at work, but I think Bush suppoters should meditate on why they cling to this man IN SPITE of his failures.


you ask "to 'whose' advantage??". already answered, in statement.
and then you comment on 'smart'? yet, one thing i like about unclegeorge, he does not "just act", he's real, upfront and no BS, type of person.

errors, mistakes, always, everywhere with everyone, doing Anything.

and you come across with "in SPITE of his failures", what the by geesus are you talking about?

you people deliver this crap without substance, no facts, or you magnify your facts (which do not amount to crap), and use one adjective after another, without a noun in sight.

either that or your noun directs to one side, you do not ever give "the other side".
take a look at this 'topic, of post', questions were asked and ignored, that is called ignorant.

oh yeh, i am under the wrong post, but same differences, in regards to the No Answers

[Secretariat]

If you don't believe that the Iraqi on Iraqi violence that we're currently seeing wasn't bound to happen at some point in the future whether or not the US invaded in March 2003, then you are the 2nd most delusional member of this message board. And again, that's not a flame, it's my honest-to-God opinion.

It's not an opinion I share. Iraq was contained after the Gulf War as the inspectors and many members of the CIA attempted to convey to this administration including Paul Pillar. That reality was not accepted by this admin, and they set up their own intelligence operation at the Pentagon because THEY DID NOT LIKE THE INFO THEY heard from the CIA. They listened to Chalabi and they have to accept the consequences for beign duped. Iraq was not ready to erupt in violence, it ws not bound to happen, and Iraq was never an imminent threat to us, not even a grave threat. THe whole thing was a Wag the Dog.


Do you think that kind of BIGOTED HATRED and VIOLENCE just appeared in March 2003? Really? You think that kind of stuff just happens overnight?

Bigotry and hatred are all over the globe. look at the Israel-Palestinan situation or what occurred in Sri Lanka. We're not launching massive miltiary campaigns in those countries. Bigotry and hatred are reasons for going to war.


Let me fill you in: Saddam, the man EVERYONE feared in Iraq, was taken out, thus RELEASING the RACIST, BIGOTED GENIE FROM THE IRAQI BOTTLE. We didn't cause the BIGOTRY, but we allowed it to see the light of day SOONER than it may have had Saddam continued to rule for another 20 years.


Filling me in? You still don't get it. Saddam is dead. Violence is increasing and Bin Laden is still at large. And americna troops are goign to escalate. Saddam's death did nothing to quell the violence.
Simple enough to understand, Sec?


Was the Bush admin in error for not anticipating this kind of violence? Perhaps. Or perhaps they DID anticipate it, and perhaps they planned on USING it to their advantage.

One never knows....

What we do know is that the violence continues despite the death of Saddam and death of his sons. What we do know is that the Iraqi forces are still "not ready", that an escalation of US forces is now on the forefront with some guys goign back for their fourth deployment. We do know that by a large majority the Iraqis view us as "occupiers" and want us to leave within a year or immediately. What we do know is this has cost a half a trillion dollars and their is 2.3 trillion in the Pentagon that is currently unaccoutnable. But we do have Saddam's hanging on tape. Mission Accomplished.

[skate]

Suff;


Everyday they are finding 30 to 70 bodies, most of whom have been tortured and disfigured. Thier bodies riddled with Bullets. Remember Skate, this is what we know. This is what trickles back to us, or things we find in the pursuit of information. I submit to you that we know only a small percentage of the Hell that is Iraq. And the Iraq Study Group said as much:




Things are bad there Skate. Very bad. Quoting Thomas Jefferson:

If There is a God, I pray he's not Just.







We can tell you definitively that the primary source of this story, police Capt. Jamil Hussein, is not a Baghdad police officer or an MOI employee. We verified this fact with the MOI through the Coalition Police Assistance Training Team...

Unless you have a credible source to corroborate the story of the people being burned alive, we respectfully request that AP issue a retraction, or a correction at a minimum, acknowledging that the source named in the story is not who he claimed he was. MNC-I and MNF-I are always available and willing to verify events and provide as much information as possible when asked.

Very respectfully,

Michael Dean
Lieutenant, U.S. Navy
MNC-I Joint Operations Center
Public Affairs Officer[/QUOTE]

well, you say this is what "we know" , but do we really know?
the story about Hussein does not break down just because they could locate him in some other department. but rather, what the story itself was saying, is still very much in doubt. for example the six bodies did not show up, nor did anything regarding a serious fire to the building.

i am only guessing, but at the most, i've heard one death and a small fire, so i may conclude ( with Hussein or not) the story was not factual.
which leads us to believe, much of our Iraq stories do not hold as much substance as we are being asked to believe.
also, we do not receive news on a constant, to compare with Iraq, such as Deaths in other parts of the world that happen ALL the time.

if we were to trump-up the drowning and sking deaths along with the killings in our cities, we could end up with a safer place for our soldiers" BEING in Iraq".

[skate]

it is nice that we have our soldiers able to go back "for a forth time". with such a long war with "so few deaths", this is a 'capable'.

[PlanB]

Even after 7 minutes response-time beween posts, the best you could type is the word NICE? That word stinks when you refer to Iraq.

[skate]

well, ok

i have a few other post, so catch up will ya, huh?

so you say that it is NOT NICE to be able to return. your assumption is "they should not be able", come on man.

what is it with "you timning ME 'the skate', huh"?

[Secretariat]

it is nice that we have our soldiers able to go back "for a forth time". with such a long war with "so few deaths", this is a 'capable'.

this is a 'capable'.....what does that mean? And could you please demonstrate the ability to use capitalization?

[skate]

this is a 'capable'.....what does that mean? And could you please demonstrate the ability to use capitalization?

capable, as in power to Be Able.

i have no abilities, i am inclusive, therefore i do not need Abilities.

[Secretariat]

capable, as in power to Be Able.

i have no abilities, i am inclusive, therefore i do not need Abilities.

So in referring to your previous post, you are saying:

"it is nice that we have our soldiers able to go back "for a forth time". with such a long war with "so few deaths", this is a 'power to Be Able'

...???

thanks this clears things up....

[PaceAdvantage]

Is it just me, or did the entire meaning in my last post to Sec fly right over his head? His response ended up having little to do with what I was stating in my post!!

I'd blame it on the medium, but I don't think that would be accurate in this case.

Sec, I know I'm not THAT bad a writer, so either you've been trained to be highly evasive in your responses, or your reading comprehension leaves something to be desired. Either way, remind me NOT to engage you in another discussion anytime soon. It's just plain worthless.

[Tom]

Sec is always the shortest guy in a debate - everything flies over his head! :lol:

And PA, didn't yo know Bush was the one who got everyone riles up over there? They nver would be killing each other if it weren't for Bush. Look at thier 1,000 year history of peacful co-existence in the region? :faint:

[Suff]

]

[QUOTE]
well, you say this is what "we know" , but do we really know?
the story about Hussein does not break down just because they could locate him in some other department. but rather, what the story itself was saying, is still very much in doubt. for example the six bodies did not show up, nor did anything regarding a serious fire to the building.


Yes, The story itself. Is it true. I'd bet its not. Not in the way we heard it. Could of been 8 bodies, could have been none. who knows. Propoganda? Likely.

Something happened. I would'nt disbelieve it on the basis of burnt bodies not being around 6 weeks later, or no damage to the building they were supposedly dragged out of.

I would disbeileve because I was not there, and virtually nothing coming out of Iraq is dead on truthful, and I'd bet more than half of it is propaganda. ( or more)





i've heard one death and a small fire, so i may conclude ( with Hussein or not) the story was not factual.




You heard? They piping in some real time intelligence to your locale?:D


which leads us to believe, much of our Iraq stories do not hold as much substance as we are being asked to believe.

Agree. Completely.



if we were to trump-up the drowning and sking deaths along with the killings in our cities, we could end up with a safer place for our soldiers" BEING in Iraq".



The issue with this thread is the AP. The war supporters and the president supporters really took to discrediting the AP. Never mind the fact that they deserve kudo's for trying ot get us what little news we do get.

When we talk about George Bush the #2 complaint seems to be his attack on Civil Liberties. And if you worry about such things, then you have to be concerned with the chorus of people, blogs, and orginizations that attack the press.

We don't want to lose the press. Free Press is vital and I think its under attack.

My thinking is my thinking. I niether defend or explain myself to no one.

But if you follow along it gets gets downright silly.

Air America drew tiny tiny audiences. Critics said that people did not want liberal radio...or a liberal message. When they went Bankrupt it was applauded and used as an example of where Americans are on the political spectrum.


But at the same time....people say NY Times, CNN, MSNBC are liberal? LA Times....Washington Post, Boston Globe ...same thing. Liberal?

Now...if you beleive they are liberal leaning, or report news with a slant then let me ask you about a KEY Republican principle.

The Individual. Conservatives believe in the individual. That an individual who is unhinged by Government, that is unrestrained by regulation, that is given opportunity and empowerment will reach his or her highest potential.

except... With information or the press?

There, conservatives believe Americans are mindless twits who only believe what they believe because they are manipulated by Liberal Media.

Suddenly......the individual is like a little child and cannot dessiminate news or information on thier own....

They are "Victims". They read the Ny Times and like mindless robots they parrot what they read or hear. Its as if they beleive there is a mind control conspiracy......

and to what end? To make the country communist or socialist? and for what end...to sell more papers?:D Or when the country becomes socialist more people will watch CNN?

I tell you skate.... that is some hell of a "long term business strategy"...

A real beauty.

[Suff]

If, then you are the 2nd most delusional member of this message board. And again, that's not a flame, it's my honest-to-God opinion.

....

:D
Am I number one!! LMAO! I love it. Good stuff. I'm "out there" huh?

Jiminey, I did'nt even get that distinction when I was posting in blackouts!:lol:

What are you going to do? What a Lovely country where a nut job like me gets to walk around in civilized society as a free man. :ThmbUp: I love this place. (america)


Here's the thing. The officer that walked from his duty? He made a choice. He'll get whats coming to him. George Bush. He made choices. He'll get whats coming to him.

The Iraq war is way down on my list of issues with George Bush. My beef is the Unitary Executive Theory.

If you have'nt done any reading on it, then this is not the place for me to break it down for you. Those that have read up on it know what I'm talking about. I'm not playing the "smarter than you" card. I'm just telling you that he's done some outrageuos shit around the Unitary Executive ideaology...and karl rove is big proponent of it, as is Crystal, and all the folks at the Heritage foundation. Its deep...

The Iraq war....I'm on and off with...

If Bush said to me

"look, if oil gets consolidated into a few hands in the middle east, and they show favor to Russia and China, and we get cut off or gouged, then AMERICA goes into depression, and millions will die of one thing another"


I could potentially throw down with that,,,,, IF....IFFFF...

He also said

"Every dollar we spend on War, and every dollar we spend in Commerce Grants will go towards alternative fuels so we negate the power OIL has on our foriegn policy"...

But that will not happen... because as you saw in the other thread.. Exxon , BP and Shell will not allow it. Because they have to much influence on our domestic policy....

A real conundrum..... You see.


Anyway, Unitary Executive. Bad. Impeach. Gotta stop that shit.

[skate]

[QUOTE=skate]]










You heard? They piping in some real time intelligence to your locale?:D


;) that was why i said "i heard", rather than say it was something i knew thru intelligence, real time or not.




Agree. Completely.





The issue with this thread is the AP. The war supporters and the president supporters really took to discrediting the AP. Never mind the fact that they deserve kudo's for trying ot get us what little news we do get.

When we talk about George Bush the #2 complaint seems to be his attack on Civil Liberties. And if you worry about such things, then you have to be concerned with the chorus of people, blogs, and orginizations that attack the press.

We don't want to lose the press. Free Press is vital and I think its under attack.

My thinking is my thinking. I niether defend or explain myself to no one.

But if you follow along it gets gets downright silly.

Air America drew tiny tiny audiences. Critics said that people did not want liberal radio...or a liberal message. When they went Bankrupt it was applauded and used as an example of where Americans are on the political spectrum.


But at the same time....people say NY Times, CNN, MSNBC are liberal? LA Times....Washington Post, Boston Globe ...same thing. Liberal?

Now...if you beleive they are liberal leaning, or report news with a slant then let me ask you about a KEY Republican principle.

The Individual. Conservatives believe in the individual. That an individual who is unhinged by Government, that is unrestrained by regulation, that is given opportunity and empowerment will reach his or her highest potential.

except... With information or the press?

There, conservatives believe Americans are mindless twits who only believe what they believe because they are manipulated by Liberal Media.

Suddenly......the individual is like a little child and cannot dessiminate news or information on thier own....

They are "Victims". They read the Ny Times and like mindless robots they parrot what they read or hear. Its as if they beleive there is a mind control conspiracy......

and to what end? To make the country communist or socialist? and for what end...to sell more papers?:D Or when the country becomes socialist more people will watch CNN?

I tell you skate.... that is some hell of a "long term business strategy"...

A real beauty.

ok, free press is vital and we do not want to lose that.

but what if the press misleads? this is what i see and i am not just talking about GW or the war in Iraq. i am talking about years ago, when this may have started, that being the press misleads the people, in order to help big business and the gov.

now some stories i have are factual, hard to prove the true intent, but they stem from the so called "free Press". the free press was in the lead, and is still in the lead of almost everything that happens in our country. lots and lots of influence, does not mater the truth to the story, because if you keep hearing the Blather, then it becomes a fact without facts.
i'm not trying to put accross something that says "i think you do not already know" my points, im sure you do know, that, what i say is possible.

the following would be an example, but at the same time, i admit, i am not 100% on this point.
Women were told, it is time to find yourself, get out and into the work force.
any female, that i grew up with, wanted to get married, in order to not have to go to work. most likely this sounds stupid, but i do have other stories, more personal, but right on point.
who really benifited, not the family, but big business and the gov. were the ones to benefit. and that is not to say, that this was not a good way for the country to advance, but the point can be argued and the Free Press had a lot to do with the developed Family situation, as we know it today.


like i say, i do have, what i think are good stories about why i think the press misleads and i do not bother to attempt to change the opinion of others, but at least, i do like to air my thoughts.

[PaceAdvantage]

:D
Am I number one!! LMAO! I love it. Good stuff. I'm "out there" huh?

Nope, not even close to #1.

Anyway, Unitary Executive. Bad. Impeach. Gotta stop that shit.

I take it this refers to Bush going what many see as above and beyond his Constitutional powers and ordering stuff like the NSA wiretaps and the Gitmo detentions? If so, there are checks and balances in place to prevent a President from abusing his executive powers.

Are you saying these checks and balances are not in place anymore? If they are still in place, the fact that they haven't been utilized might tell you something about your beliefs.

[Suff]

I take it this refers to Bush going what many see as above and beyond his Constitutional powers and ordering stuff like the NSA wiretaps and the Gitmo detentions? If so, there are checks and balances in place to prevent a President from abusing his executive powers.

Are you saying these checks and balances are not in place anymore? If they are still in place, the fact that they haven't been utilized might tell you something about your beliefs.


No Oversight baby.

Soon, The Democrats will be issuing Subpenas like condoms in a gay bar.

Bush'll ignore. Showdown at OK corral. Impeachment +/- 10 months.

Coming to a theater near you. Soon....,...,next week or week after.

[Show Me the Wire]

P.A:

All the demlibs care about is ying and yang. You yinged our lying president (convicted perjurer), so we want to yang your party's president.

Whole issue and that is all there is to it.

[Suff]

P.A:

(convicted perjurer), .




Clinton lied to a Federal Judge about a sexual affair. Anyone that would'nt do that is stupid, a coward, or both.

That's the time to lie. That's when I'd roll out my first class lie game. My All Star game of lieing

Judge: Did you cheat on your wife?

Suff: Hell No!

Judge: Where were you?

Suff: I was feeding the poor, helping the elderly, coaching my little league team, I was at church.....But I was not with that woman! Honest injun your Honor. ;)

[Show Me the Wire]

Does that same logic of stupidity apply to lying to his wife, about a separate act, and the country?

[Suff]

Does that same logic of stupidity apply to lying to his wife, about a separate act, and the country?

There is no basis for arguement here. The Impeachment process was abused , and used willy nilly.

This discussion as with all discussions here are a complete waste of time. I was no fan of Bill Clinton, but Republicans forfieted any high ground on grounds for impeachment.


It's humorous to read posts that attempt to hold Bill Clinton to a "letter of the law".

If only it was self applied.....oh if only.

[Show Me the Wire]

There is no basis for arguement here. The Impeachment process was abused , and used willy nilly.

This discussion as with all discussions here are a complete waste of time. I
was no fan of Bill Clinton, but Republicans forfieted any high ground on grounds for impeachment.


It's humorous to read posts that attempt to hold Bill Clinton to a "letter of the law".

If only it was self applied.....oh if only.


Not my intent. I was addressing the character issue. You seemed to applaud a person lying when he swore an oath saying he was telling the truth.

I was just wondering what you felt about lying when someone is not swearing that he is telling the truth. It was a question about character, not the letter of the law.

And you may infer whose character I was asking about.

[hcap]

Suff,No Oversight baby.

Soon, The Democrats will be issuing Subpenas like condoms in a gay bar.

Bush'll ignore. Showdown at OK corral. Impeachment +/- 10 months.

Coming to a theater near you. Soon....,...,next week or week after.Only a matter of time. It has to be done. Clinton was a misdemeanor campared to bushco.

[Suff]

Not my intent. I was addressing the character issue. You seemed to applaud a person lying when he swore an oath saying he was telling the truth.

I was just wondering what you felt about lying when someone is not swearing that he is telling the truth. It was a question about character, not the letter of the law.

And you may infer whose character I was asking about.

Listen to me close with what I'm about to tell you. It's important.


To become President of the United States you need to tell 100 lies a month for about two years. Its the probationary period to see if you qualify.

[PaceAdvantage]

Bush'll ignore. Showdown at OK corral. Impeachment +/- 10 months.

Coming to a theater near you. Soon....,...,next week or week after.

I wish I were a rich man. I'd take every dime you're willing to bet....

NOT going to happen....never, ever, ever....

Hell, I'm still waiting for the Karl Rove perp walk in "PlameGate"

[PaceAdvantage]

Suff,Only a matter of time. It has to be done. Clinton was a misdemeanor campared to bushco.

I hate to disappoint yet another person in this thread, but the plain truth of it is, Bush has done NOTHING to date with which he can be impeached.

Sorry. That's the truth.

Now, if there is something HIDDEN from public view that has yet to surface, then that's another story, I suppose. But as of now, better get out your crying towels yet again, as there will be no impeachment for "High Crimes and Misdemeanors......:lol: "

[JPinMaryland]

one of the congress people said "Impeachment is what we say it is.." I think this was during the clinton thing but not sure. Shoudl be an easy google.

Hard to argue against that. There is no real clear def'n given that it says "High crimes." What is a high crime? WHere is that defined?

[Tom]

Maybe they will trie Bush an Rove together! :lol::lol::lol: