View Full Version : like the Blue and the Gray
46zilzal
11-27-2006, 10:37 PM
Turning Point: Media Starting to Describe Iraq Conflict as 'Civil War'
By Anna Crane / Editor & Publisher
NEW YORK For months, the media have been torn over use of the term "civil war" to describe the descent into outright murder and torture in Iraq. Apparently the utter chaos and carnage of the past week has finally convinced some to use "civil war" without apology -- with NBC News and MSNBC joining in today in a major way -- but many still hold back, an E&P survey today shows.
The Los Angeles Times was one of the first newspapers to flatly describe the conflict as a "civil war" -- without the usual qualifiers of "approaching" or "near" -- in the first paragraph of a news report on Saturday. The Christian Science Monitor today refers to a "deepening civil war."
46zilzal
11-27-2006, 10:42 PM
Neighborhood by neighborhood, Baghdad descends into civil war
By Hannah Allam and Mohammed al Dulaimy / McClatchy Newspapers
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Sectarian violence has turned Baghdad into a deadly jigsaw puzzle of contested neighborhoods where armed bands of Shiite and Sunni Muslims battle daily for control in fighting that is far more similar to an organized military campaign than is generally acknowledged.
46zilzal
11-27-2006, 10:56 PM
Al-Sadr loyalists take over Iraqi television station
By Hannah Allam and Mohamed al Dulaimy / McClatchy Newspapers
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Followers of the militant Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr took over state-run television Saturday to denounce the Iraqi government, label Sunnis "terrorists" and issue what appeared to many viewers as a call to arms.
With Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki relegated to the sidelines, brazen Sunni-Shiite attacks continue unchecked despite a 24-hour curfew over Baghdad. Al-Sadr's Mahdi Army militia now controls wide swaths of the capital, his politicians are the backbone of the Cabinet, and his followers deeply entrenched in the Iraqi security forces. Sectarian violence has spun so rapidly out of control since the Sadr City blasts, however, that it's not clear whether even al-Sadr has the authority - or the will - to stop the cycle of bloodshed.
DJofSD
11-27-2006, 11:10 PM
From Wikipedia - opposition to the Civil War. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_the_American_Civil_War)
"A constant in Civil War Appalachia was the prevalence of partisan violence. Throughout this region, loyalists, secessionists, deserters, and men with little loyalty to either side formed organized bands, fought each other as well as occupying troops, terrorized the population, and spread fear, chaos, and destruction. Military forces stationed in the Appalachian regions, whether regular troops or home guards, frequently resorted to extreme methods, including executing partisans summarily, destroying the homes of suspected bushwhackers, and torturing families to gain information. This epidemic of violence created a widespread sense of insecurity, forced hundreds of residents to flee, and contributed to the region's economic distress, demoralization, and division."
JustRalph
11-28-2006, 04:26 AM
I like what Don Imus said about this. He of course realizes that we are a different people now. We don't have just a few choices for news. And the Big Three don't even rate anymore.
http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/nbc/do_those_nitwitsthink_this_is_going_to_have_the_sa me_impact_as_cronkite_imus_48157.asp
Monday, Nov 27
"Do Those Nitwits...Think This Is Going To Have" The Same Impact As Cronkite? --Imus
This morning on radio and MSNBC, responding to NBC's decision to characterize Iraq as a "civil war," Don Imus said:
"He and Brian Williams and all those other nitwits and Griffin, they all sit around and they make this command decision, and Zucker and all of them, and maybe bring ol' Wright in there?"
More: "Do these nitwits at NBC News think this is going to have the impact of when Walter Cronkite came back in Vietnam and said we can't win, and Lyndon Johnson famously said 'well if we've lost Walter Cronkite, we've lost the country?'"
46zilzal
11-28-2006, 10:51 AM
more denial does not change what is happening.
Typcial: don't like the message, attack the messenger.
Don Imus? very good when he is paraphrasing Billy Sol Hargis and his First Church of the Gooey Death and discount house of worship, Del Rio, Texas.......but beyond that? Flip side of that record was 1500 hamburgers to go....
But talking about the REALLY BLIND, there is the rutabaga:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/11/28/iraq.main/index.html
Lefty
11-28-2006, 11:19 AM
more denial does not change what is happening.
Typcial: don't like the message, attack the messenger.
Don Imus? very good when he is paraphrasing Billy Sol Hargis and his First Church of the Gooey Death and discount house of worship, Del Rio, Texas.......but beyond that? Flip side of that record was 1500 hamburgers to go....
But talking about the REALLY BLIND, there is the rutabaga:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/11/28/iraq.main/index.html
46, you and those nitwits at NBC need to get a grip. What's happening in Iraq does not meet the definition of Civil War. The messenger needs attacking when he makes up his own message and tries to influence instead of report.
JPinMaryland
11-28-2006, 11:21 AM
If we've lost Don Imus we've lost the war. :mad:
more denial does not change what is happening.
Typcial: don't like the message, attack the messenger.
But talking about the REALLY BLIND, there is the rutabaga:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/11/28/iraq.main/index.html
So what is your point 46? Is a Civil War in Iraq something you called for and now you think it's true?
If President Bush called it a Civil War, would that make you happy and change the outcome?
46zilzal
11-28-2006, 03:27 PM
the rutabaga NOW says Al Qaeda is reponsible for what HE created.......denial is so unbecoming.
A google search has a FEW dissenting opinions, only a few...
the rutabaga NOW says Al Qaeda is reponsible for what HE created.......denial is so unbecoming.
A google search has a FEW dissenting opinions, only a few...
So you don't think Al Qaeda is responsible for what is going on there?
46zilzal
11-28-2006, 03:44 PM
So you don't think Al Qaeda is responsible for what is going on there?
Clowns in charge always need a "boogeyman" to heap all the troubles of the world upon. Works with the weak minded too.
"Arguing definitions while the blood soaks the sand: Though the Bush administration continues to insist that it is not, a growing number of American and Iraqi scholars, leaders and policy analysts say the fighting in Iraq meets the standard definition of civil war.
The common scholarly definition has two main criteria. The first says that the warring groups must be from the same country and fighting for control of the political center, control over a separatist state or to force a major change in policy. The second says that at least 1,000 people must have been killed in total, with at least 100 from each side.
American professors who specialize in the study of civil wars say that most of their number are in agreement that Iraq’s conflict is a civil war.
…In the United States, the debate over the term rages because many politicians, especially those who support the war, believe there would be domestic political implications to declaring it a civil war. They fear that an acknowledgment by the White House and its allies would be seen as an admission of a failure of President Bush’s Iraq policy."
JPinMaryland
11-28-2006, 03:59 PM
what would be the reasoning that it doesnt meet the def'n of civil war? I'd like to see what that would be...
46zilzal
11-28-2006, 03:59 PM
from CNN:"News reports say the Iraq study group -- the bipartisan commission chaired by former Secretary of State James Baker and ex-Congressman Lee Hamilton -- will recommend direct talks with Iran and Syria, as well as a timetable for partial withdrawal of American troops, both designed to find some way out of the spiral of sectarian violence.
These ideas represent a stunning change from the ideas that animated the decision to invade Iraq three and a half years ago. That decision was not based simply on the belief that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, but that his removal would change the entire region for the better."
Pinnochio must have imagined that last line..
46zilzal
11-28-2006, 04:06 PM
On CNN Monday, correspondent Michael Ware said, "If this isn't a civil war, I don't know what is."
Recent dispatches in outlets such as the Los Angeles Times and New York Times also have referred to a civil war. USA TODAY calls the conflict "the war in Iraq" and refers to "sectarian violence or "religious fighting."
Tom McPhail, a journalism professor at the University of Missouri/St. Louis, says NBC's move is "a defining and negative moment" in the war in Iraq, "like when Walter Cronkite said on air that the Vietnam War was lost."
Turth is better than fiction.
Light
11-28-2006, 04:30 PM
What is hardly ever mentioned is the real reason this turmoil is disturbing. The very real possibility that this "civil war" may result in Iraq ending up in the hands of anti-American forces.It would be the biggest slap in the face to the Bush administration. This Lame Duck could never bear the embarrassment.Can you say LBJ deja vu?
He who does not learn from the past is condemned to repeat it.
Clowns in charge always need a "boogeyman" to heap all the troubles of the world upon. Works with the weak minded too.
Restating your position does not answer the question. Maybe one more time:
So you don't think Al Qaeda is responsible for what is going on there?
46zilzal
11-28-2006, 04:57 PM
wow am I a CIA analyst now?
wow am I a CIA analyst now?
I sure hope not. But you do seem to be quick on the draw about calling people "clowns" and "weak minded". I asked a very simple question that has bearing on this thread and you keep coming back with nothing.
Admitting that Al Qaeda is involved puts some dents in your name calling and does not support your position against President Bush. I think I know your answer now.
Lefty
11-28-2006, 05:31 PM
The South seceded from the Union and we had a civil war.
In Iraq the factions are still part of the same govt. There ya go.
46, you go far when you say Al Quaeda is a boogeyman. Maybe ya heard of 9-11. It was in all the papers and even on tv.
These people are out to kill us all, they have said so and all you can do is call the Pres names. You and people like YOU are part of the problem.
Doesn anyone really appreciate the fine art 46 has created from ignorance?
He chastizes Ralph for attacking the messenger becaseu he didn ot agree with the message, and in the next sentence, he calls Bush a rutebega!
If this guy is not the epitome of duplicity, the czar of bizzare, I don't know who is! :lol:
46zilzal
11-28-2006, 07:28 PM
rutabaga is a term EARNED by repeated STUPID moves
rutabaga is a term EARNED by repeated STUPID moves
Once again, you miss the point. Either that or you are just playing stupid.
46zilzal
11-28-2006, 07:35 PM
when one shows COMPLETE and utter IGNORNACE, OVER AND OVER, that qualifies for the definition of STUPIDITY to me. Dubya and his neocon cabal have cornered the market on that distinction.
46zilzal
11-28-2006, 07:42 PM
"The U.S. military, even after the debacle in Vietnam, disdained learning how to fight counterinsurgency warfare and continued to buy costly weapons for a war against a major conventional adversary that no longer exists. The U.S. military's reflexive use of heavy firepower, especially air power, has caused excessive Iraqi casualties and turned the Iraqi people against the United States. Recently, increased violence in Baghdad in response to redoubled U.S. security operations shows that U.S. forces are part of the problem in Iraq, not the solution. Until it was too late, the United States underemphasized winning the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people, the most crucial element of waging successful counterinsurgency warfare.
In short, U.S. politicians are essentially blaming Iraqis for not squelching the chaos and mayhem created by the United States. Yet, if the best military in world history cannot disarm militias and pacify Iraq, how does the U.S. government expect the inexperienced Iraqi security forces to do so?"
46zilzal
11-28-2006, 07:46 PM
from Madison Wisconsin:" John Hamilton: Criminal invasion by U.S. is cause of Iraqi chaos, loss of life
A letter to the editor
Dear Editor: Much has appeared in recent days on the pages of The Capital Times about Iraq, with headlines like "Can Iraq be saved?" and "Vietnam's echo." In these writings one consistent theme is that we, the citizens of the United States, can make the intervention in Iraq victorious, honorable and favorable.
Nowhere is it mentioned that it was a crime to invade Iraq in the first place. A murderous, sociopathic crime. Like the intervention in Vietnam, the attack and occupation of Iraq was based not only on lies, but on an arrogance that we, the citizens of the United States, have the luxury of invading whomever we want.
Iraq's neighbors Iran, Turkey, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Kuwait did not see any need to invade Iraq, but we did. Somehow, the United States felt more threatened than did all these countries put together."
PlanB
11-28-2006, 07:48 PM
Is there some point to your repeated incursions into The Beatles LOVE cd? Don't you understand that Less is More?
when one shows COMPLETE and utter IGNORNACE, OVER AND OVER, that qualifies for the definition of STUPIDITY to me. Dubya and his neocon cabal have cornered the market on that distinction.
And you continue to join them by ignoring facts and being unwilling to face facts like Al Qaeda and their actions. It is not as one sided as you would like to make it. Your hate for President Bush is over riding everything you post lately.
46zilzal
11-28-2006, 07:52 PM
Mandela Slams Bush On Iraq
JOHANNESBURG, South Africa, Jan. 30, 2003
Nelson Mandela accused President Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair of undermining the U.N. (AP)
(CBS) A prominent new voice joined the international chorus of protest against U.S. preparations for war against Iraq on Thursday.
Former South African President Nelson Mandela delivered a fiery speech denouncing the United States and aiming harsh personal criticism at President Bush.
Mandela, a Nobel Peace Prize winner and one of the world's most respected elder statesmen, let the Bush administration have it right between the eyes, reports CBS News Correspondent Tom Fenton.
"It is a tragedy, what is happening, what Bush is doing. But Bush is now undermining the United Nations," Mandela told the International Women's Forum.
Mandela said he would support action against Iraq only if it is ordered by the U.N. He urged the people of the United States to join massive protests against Mr. Bush and called on world leaders, especially those with vetoes in the U.N. Security Council, to oppose him.
"What I am condemning is that one power, with a president who has no foresight, who cannot think properly, is now wanting to plunge the world into a holocaust."
46zilzal
11-28-2006, 07:54 PM
And you continue to join them by ignoring facts and being unwilling to face facts like Al Qaeda and their actions. It is not as one sided as you would like to make it. Your hate for President Bush is over riding everything you post lately.
I don't hate FOOLS, I just pity them
Mandela Slams Bush On Iraq
JOHANNESBURG, South Africa, Jan. 30, 2003
Nelson Mandela accused President Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair of undermining the U.N. (AP)
(CBS) A prominent new voice joined the international chorus of protest against U.S. preparations for war against Iraq on Thursday.
Former South African President Nelson Mandela delivered a fiery speech denouncing the United States and aiming harsh personal criticism at President Bush.
Mandela, a Nobel Peace Prize winner and one of the world's most respected elder statesmen, let the Bush administration have it right between the eyes, reports CBS News Correspondent Tom Fenton.
"It is a tragedy, what is happening, what Bush is doing. But Bush is now undermining the United Nations," Mandela told the International Women's Forum.
Mandela said he would support action against Iraq only if it is ordered by the U.N. He urged the people of the United States to join massive protests against Mr. Bush and called on world leaders, especially those with vetoes in the U.N. Security Council, to oppose him.
"What I am condemning is that one power, with a president who has no foresight, who cannot think properly, is now wanting to plunge the world into a holocaust."
Now you are digging up bones!
46zilzal
11-28-2006, 07:58 PM
Now you are digging up bones!
Still accurate today and it was when it was said as I have much respect for this man's opinion.
46zilzal
11-28-2006, 08:04 PM
Lessons of Iraq War start with U.S. history
By Howard Zinn
March 8, 2006
On the third anniversary of President Bush's Iraq debacle, it's important to consider why the administration so easily fooled so many people into supporting the war.
I believe there are two reasons, which go deep into our national culture.
One is an absence of historical perspective. The other is an inability to think outside the boundaries of nationalism.
If we don't know history, then we are ready meat for carnivorous politicians and the intellectuals and journalists who supply the carving knives. But if we know some history, if we know how many times presidents have lied to us, we will not be fooled again.
Lessons of Iraq War start with U.S. history
By Howard Zinn
March 8, 2006
On the third anniversary of President Bush's Iraq debacle, it's important to consider why the administration so easily fooled so many people into supporting the war.
I believe there are two reasons, which go deep into our national culture.
One is an absence of historical perspective. The other is an inability to think outside the boundaries of nationalism.
If we don't know history, then we are ready meat for carnivorous politicians and the intellectuals and journalists who supply the carving knives. But if we know some history, if we know how many times presidents have lied to us, we will not be fooled again.
Quoting Howard Zinn does not add support to your posts for me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Zinn
"Zinn's philosophy incorporates ideas from Marxism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism), anarchism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism), socialism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism), and social democracy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy)." Are those your supporting positions?
Lefty
11-28-2006, 09:12 PM
And you continue to join them by ignoring facts and being unwilling to face facts like Al Qaeda and their actions. It is not as one sided as you would like to make it. Your hate for President Bush is over riding everything you post lately.
LATELY?
ALLWAYS!
He's obsessing, boys.
Stand back! He might blow!
I gotta go read Moby Dick again.
46zilzal
11-29-2006, 11:23 AM
CNN reported this AM that Colin Powell has now stated that the violence in Iraq qualifies as civil war.
Lefty
11-29-2006, 11:32 AM
Lessons of Iraq War start with U.S. history
By Howard Zinn
March 8, 2006
On the third anniversary of President Bush's Iraq debacle, it's important to consider why the administration so easily fooled so many people into supporting the war.
I believe there are two reasons, which go deep into our national culture.
One is an absence of historical perspective. The other is an inability to think outside the boundaries of nationalism.
If we don't know history, then we are ready meat for carnivorous politicians and the intellectuals and journalists who supply the carving knives. But if we know some history, if we know how many times presidents have lied to us, we will not be fooled again.
Want lessons, zilly? G. Washington suffered many defeats one after another before his rag tag army finally defeated theBritish. I guess if Powell or Murtha or any others like that had been aroundwe could have negotiated a gracious defeat with the British.
Light
11-29-2006, 11:39 AM
George Bush is in the last throes of his insurgency
46zilzal
11-29-2006, 11:42 AM
Want lessons, zilly? G. Washington suffered many defeats one after another before his rag tag army finally defeated theBritish. I guess if Powell or Murtha or any others like that had been aroundwe could have negotiated a gracious defeat with the British.
akin to handicapping a maiden dirt sprint by using a line from a steeplechase.
46zilzal
11-29-2006, 11:47 AM
White House Wages War of Words Over 'Civil' Term
By Peter Baker / Washington Post
The carnage in Iraq is "sectarian violence," President Bush says. It's a "struggle for freedom," the "central front in the war on terror." It is not, no matter how much it may look like it, a civil war.
Forget the debate over what to do about the war in Iraq. The White House is still debating what to call the war in Iraq. With retired generals, analysts, politicians and pundits increasingly using the term "civil war," the Bush administration insists that the definition does not fit as part of its latest effort to control the words of war.
To people dying in the streets of Sadr City, it may be just semantics. But the White House fiercely resists the phrase out of fear of its impact in both Iraq and the United States. Defining it as civil war, some strategists worry, could accelerate the conflict and encourage Iraqi factions that remain on the sidelines to join the struggle.
Light
11-29-2006, 11:55 AM
Bush's world is cracking at the seams
46zilzal
11-29-2006, 11:58 AM
Bush's world is cracking at the seams
when the slight of hand gets so overwhelmingly obvious you get caught at the fraud.
Lefty
11-29-2006, 12:01 PM
akin to handicapping a maiden dirt sprint by using a line from a steeplechase.
Not hardly. G W could have easily have given up and negotiated a deal with the Brits. And we must not negotiate a defeat in Iraq. We must win or our way of life will change drastically. We will no longer feel safe in our own country. We must not let the press and you libs sway us from victory. We should do all that's necessary to win.
No, zilly, it's handicapping at its best. Geore W would not be swayed and our own G. W. should not be swayed.
GaryG
11-29-2006, 12:12 PM
George Bush is in the last throes of his insurgencyAh Light my man.....I can hear Saddam saying that victory will be sweet.
46zilzal
11-29-2006, 12:25 PM
Not hardly. G W could have easily have given up and negotiated a deal with the Brits. And we must not negotiate a defeat in Iraq. We must win or our way of life will change drastically. We will no longer feel safe in our own country. We must not let the press and you libs sway us from victory. We should do all that's necessary to win.
No, zilly, it's handicapping at its best. Geore W would not be swayed and our own G. W. should not be swayed.
still living in that "dream" world I see.
Light
11-29-2006, 04:16 PM
Lefty's aluding to Washington comes without the understanding that Washington and his men formed the equivalent of the insurgency in Iraq.A very poor example for defending Bush,cause it actually defends the insurgency :D
I dont usually like to use the laughing icon but this is a winner.
JPinMaryland
11-29-2006, 05:58 PM
Yeah that was an interesting analogy to the Am. Rev. I wonder which superpower had more interest in winning that war: Modern day US. or 18th cent. Britain.
When you get down to it; the Am. Rev. really seemed to end more as a negotiated settlement rather than anything else. We tend to read about Yorktown and Saratoga as turning pts. in a military struggle. but it was political changes in Britain that hastened the end to what many had regarded as a bad colonial policy. Spain, France, and Dutch entry in the war turned it into a world wide struggle and Britain needed to get out. I dont think the Dutch ever formally signed the final papers.
In the case of Iraq they are getting foreign recognition of a sort: from Iran and I guess Syria. Not too different from Amer/France which as I recall was kept clandestine for some time.
Lefty
11-29-2006, 06:25 PM
Lefty's aluding to Washington comes without the understanding that Washington and his men formed the equivalent of the insurgency in Iraq.A very poor example for defending Bush,cause it actually defends the insurgency :D
I dont usually like to use the laughing icon but this is a winner.
Only in your demented mind, light.
The lesson is: You don't give up just because things aren't going swimmingly. War is cruel tough and harsh. That's the lesson.
46zilzal
11-29-2006, 06:27 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/29/powell.iraq/index.html
Powell now chimes in on the bothced mess.
Lefty
11-29-2006, 06:29 PM
still living in that "dream" world I see.
If you don't think terrorism is a real threat then it's you that lives in the dreamworld, Dr!
GaryG
11-29-2006, 06:50 PM
Dr. Filth he keeps his world inside of a leather cup....Desolation Row
46zilzal
11-29-2006, 06:52 PM
Iraq conflict ‘set to deteriorate’
By Edward Luce in Washington
Published: November 29 2006
The conflict in Iraq is likely to significantly deteriorate over the next few months regardless of which combination of options the Bush administration chooses to exercise, according to a report released by a leading Washington think tank on Wednesday.
The report – Options for Iraq: The Amost Good, the Bad and the Ugly – dismisses as “dishonest” the Bush administration’s claims to have readied more than 100 Iraqi military units for combat, pointing out that the true number was probably less than a third of the Pentagon’s estimate.
It also takes strong issue with the notion that Washington can simply pressure Nuri al-Maliki, the Iraqi prime minister, to push harder for conciliation between Iraq’s clashing sectarian groups. It disputes the growing consensus in Washington that the US should pressure the Maliki government to close down the sectarian militias and forge a reconciliation with the Sunni Arab groups by threatening to withdraw US forces.
The comparsons in this thread of our rvolution to the Iraq insurrgencies underscore the depths of ignorance that flow through people.
It is the kindergarden view of the world.
The comparsons in this thread of our rvolution to the Iraq insurrgencies underscore the depths of ignorance that flow through people.
It is the kindergarden view of the world.
Tom, the sad part is they still have high school to go to before really being able to make decisions that mean something.
46zilzal
11-29-2006, 07:43 PM
keeps getting worse and worse with NO end in sight yet the rutabaga is saying STAY THE COURSE. A bigger idiot than I once thought. Caught in a lie in a war that is going NO where based upon CRAP and the population catching on and the moron contiues playing the fool.
Lefty
11-29-2006, 08:38 PM
keeps getting worse and worse with NO end in sight yet the rutabaga is saying STAY THE COURSE. A bigger idiot than I once thought. Caught in a lie in a war that is going NO where based upon CRAP and the population catching on and the moron contiues playing the fool.
zilly, evidently you really know nothing of history. Every war we've fght has had it ups and downs, foulups and unforseen things happen. If Washington had given up, if Lincoln had given up or if FDR had given up, this country, the world would be a far different and worse off place. Glad a (fill in the blank) LIKE YOU zilly is not in charge. You can't see beyond your freakin socialist nose.
46zilzal
11-29-2006, 08:42 PM
ALL Hail the rutabaga. He knows what is best
Lefty
11-29-2006, 09:25 PM
ALL Hail the rutabaga. He knows what is best
The stink cabbage has spoken.
46, a serious question.
As a doctor, would you call your behavior healthy, or normal?
46zilzal
11-29-2006, 10:02 PM
46, a serious question.
As a doctor, would you call your behavior healthy, or normal?
pointing out a madman: NORMAL...akin to the guy in the Body Snatchers
46zilzal
11-29-2006, 10:19 PM
"Following the 2004 election Bush declared he had political capital to spend. He relentlessly chased around in Air Force One, trying to convince the public that private accounts would be the security to keep Social Security solvent.
This proved to be a colossal flop, as repeatedly the public rejected this idea. The public obviously put more faith in the government doling out Social Security checks than banks or Wall Street.
Following the 2006 election Bush had no political capital to spend at all. With a tornado of books, Internet blogs, and film documentaries the Iraq War debacle expose had finally sunk in.
It took what a John Hopkins estimate revealed to be 655,000 Iraqi deaths, as well as 2,813 U.S. service personnel dead and 17,000 more injured, to wake America up. Now Bush's public approval ratings had dipped to the low 30's.
Once it was glaringly apparent that he had lost his so-called "political capital" he hopped into Air Force One, as if the world was eagerly awaiting his brilliant diplomacy.
The parallels between the failed Vietnam War death debacle and the Iraq War death debacle were self-evident. When questioned about this obvious fact that the U.S. was in an Iraq War quagmire, Bush's brilliant observation was words to this effect: "Americans need patience and shouldn't expect instant success in Iraq."
Light
11-29-2006, 10:20 PM
As a doctor, would you call your behavior healthy, or normal?
That question should be directed to Bush. Observe how the symptoms of a sociopath fit him to a tee.
not learning from experience
no sense of responsibility
inability to form meaningful relationships
inability to control impulses
lack of moral sense
chronically antisocial behavior
no change in behavior after punishment
emotional immaturity
lack of guilt
self-centeredness
People with this disorder may exhibit criminal behavior
PaceAdvantage
11-29-2006, 11:06 PM
keeps getting worse and worse with NO end in sight yet the rutabaga is saying STAY THE COURSE. A bigger idiot than I once thought. Caught in a lie in a war that is going NO where based upon CRAP and the population catching on and the moron contiues playing the fool.
Seriously, you're a doctor? Have you ever written a complete and proper sentence in your entire life on this board? How do you get off calling other folks stupid?
46 --> HEAL THYSELF!
46zilzal
11-29-2006, 11:55 PM
ah yes but this talk is PERFECTLY acceptable because it come from Fearless Leader who is a known dyslexic:
When NATO was formed in 1949, its principal mission was to protect Europe from a Soviet tank invasion. Today, the Soviet threat is gone. And under the able leadership of the Secretary General, NATO is transforming from a static alliance focused on the defense of Europe, into an expedentiary alliance ready to deploy outside of Europe in the defense of freedom.
Riga, Latvia, Nov. 28, 2006
You know, the plans of Mr. Zarqawi was to foment sectarian violence. ...The bombings that took place recently was a part of a pattern that has been going on for about nine months.
Tallinn, Estonia, Nov. 28, 2006
And you think I'm BAD? have nothing on this clown.
46zilzal
11-29-2006, 11:58 PM
or the TOP TEN all time goodies.
10. It's in our country's interests to find those who would do harm to us and get them out of harm's way.
9. There's a lot of us getting ready to retire. We're called baby boomers. As a matter of fact, my retirement age is 2,008.
8. I like to tell people, Laura and I are proud to be Texas -- own a Texas ranch, and for us, every day is Earth Day.
7. I'm looking forward to a good night's sleep on the soil of a friend.
6. And so, in my State of the -- my State of the Union -- or state -- my speech to the -- nation, whatever you wanna call it, speech to the nation -- I asked Americans to give 4,000 years -- 4,000 hours over the next -- of the rest of your life -- of service to America. That's what I asked. I said 2 -- 4,000 hours.
5. And, most importantly, Alma Powell, Secretary of Colin Powell, is with us.
4. No question in my mind these are tough times for America. But there's no question in my mind we'll prevail. Right is on our side. And we'll prevail, because we're a fabulous nation, and we're a fabulous nation because we're a nation full of fabulous people.
3. I know what I believe. I will continue to articulate what I believe and what I believe -- I believe what I believe is right.
2. We got an issue in America. Too many good docs are gettin' out of business. Too many OB/GYNs aren't able to practice their -- their love with women all across this country.
1. There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee -- that says, fool me once -- shame on -- shame on you. You fool me, you can't get fooled again.
PaceAdvantage
11-29-2006, 11:59 PM
And you think I'm BAD? have nothing on this clown.
Nah, I don't think you're BAD. I just think you're a hypocrite.
46zilzal
11-30-2006, 12:05 AM
good paraphrasing.
JustRalph
11-30-2006, 12:06 AM
ah yes but this talk is PERFECTLY acceptable because it come from Fearless Leader who is a known dyslexic:
And you think I'm BAD? have nothing on this clown.
Amazing, Jay Leno is a known dyslexic, I guess we shouldn't listen to his monologue tonight. God forbid he could say something funny, he is a dyslexic!
You are a piece of work.
46zilzal
11-30-2006, 12:07 AM
hypocrite...at least you are one of the few who can spell it. Hypocrite? I have repeated a single mantra: the rutabaga is an out of touch megalomaniac who thinks God tells him what to do.
How does that qualify?
JustRalph
11-30-2006, 12:13 AM
That question should be directed to Bush. Observe how the symptoms of a sociopath fit him to a tee.
not learning from experience Because he doesn't agree with you?
no sense of responsibility You have got to be kidding?
inability to form meaningful relationships You know the man? More stupid shit from Light
inability to control impulses refer back to the last.....more crap!
lack of moral sense If anything, he tries too hard in this regard.
chronically antisocial behavior What? More Crap!
no change in behavior after punishment You are kidding right?
emotional immaturity Amazing that you can even think this was something worth posting
lack of guilt more of the same
self-centeredness Find me a politician that isn't?
People with this disorder may exhibit criminal behavior
Where do you come off with this shit? Go away, sometimes the absurdity that comes out of your mouth, sorry, your keyboard, is beyond belief. You are unbelievable sometimes.
The guy is obviously going to do what he thinks is right. I don't fault him for that. He needs to act like he can't hear idiots like you and get down to business. You piss ant monday morning posters direct from Dearborn are part of the problem.
JustRalph
11-30-2006, 12:15 AM
hypocrite...at least you are one of the few who can spell it. Hypocrite? I have repeated a single mantra: the rutabaga is an out of touch megalomaniac who thinks God tells him what to do.
How does that qualify?
I shall remind you once again. You are in Canada. We don't care what you say.
46zilzal
11-30-2006, 12:19 AM
Where do you come off with this shit? Go away, sometimes the absurdity that comes out of your mouth, sorry, your keyboard, is beyond belief. You are unbelievable sometimes.
there are MANY scholarly articles pointing out sociopathic traits of the rutabaga.
Excerpts from an interview of the author of the Bush Dyslexicon.http://www.alternet.org/story/10989/
or http://www.harpercollins.com/book/index.aspx?isbn=9780060736705
Lefty
11-30-2006, 12:33 AM
zilly, you jump from the war to SS. Ok. Simple. Bush was right. Without privatization SS will go broke. When SS started it was about 80-1. 80 workers supporting 1 retiree. That'sfell to 8-1, maybe less. Do the math.
If Bush is dslexic then that's a handicap. Are you making fun of the handicapped?
Lefty
11-30-2006, 01:02 AM
zilly, those so called scholarly articles all written by liberal nuts.
Clinton wrecked lives wihout conscience. Looked what the Clintons did to those poor people in the travel dept of the WH> It wasn't good enough to just fire them, they tried to wreck their lives. Many senior citizens lost their life savings in the whitewater land scandals. 12 people went to jail including the govenor of
Ark. Clinton preyed on women like Paula Jones then lied to keep her from having her day in court. Then the IRS audited her husband. And yet you agree Bush is a sociopath? Clinton was more of a sociopath than Bush ever was.
You know, it's one thing to disagree with a man's ideas and policies, even the war. But to keep up this personal rant shows me that you liberals are a whiny vindictive bunch. You and your nutty professors have the problem, zilly, not the President.
46zilzal
11-30-2006, 01:15 AM
You know, it's one thing to disagree with a man's ideas and policies, even the war. But to keep up this personal rant shows me that you liberals are a whiny vindictive bunch. You and your nutty professors have the problem, zilly, not the President.
I have never caused the deaths of over 3000 men either
Lefty
11-30-2006, 02:36 AM
I have never caused the deaths of over 3000 men either
And how many were saved from Saddam and will continue to be saved. WEhave terrorists that want to kill us all, that have beheaded the innocent and you blame Bush. Something is seriously wrong with you.
46zilzal
11-30-2006, 01:14 PM
Majority of Americans Believe Iraq Is in 'Civil War', Poll Finds
Wall Street Journal Online
A majority of Americans think Iraq is in the midst of a civil war, a new Harris Interactive poll finds, and few are confident that Robert Gates's nomination as Secretary of Defense will improve the situation there.
Sixty-eight percent of U.S. adults said they believe there is a civil war in Iraq, the online poll from Nov. 13 to Nov. 20 found, compared with 14% who disagree and 18% who aren't sure.
Light
11-30-2006, 01:28 PM
Go away, sometimes the absurdity that comes out of your mouth, sorry, your keyboard, is beyond belief. You are unbelievable sometimes.
You know how many times you have told me to go away?Too many. Just about everytime I post in the off topic. If you cant handle what I say,then you have 3 options. You can go away or use your ignore button or make an appointment with a shrink cause only the weak minded react this way.
46zilzal
11-30-2006, 01:39 PM
I get the same thing all the time from the same source.
JustRalph
11-30-2006, 02:37 PM
here, let's save some bandwidth. Both of you, go away. You don't carry on any meaningful dialogue. You are trolls. End of story.
46zilzal
11-30-2006, 02:47 PM
here, let's save some bandwidth. Both of you, go away. You don't carry on any meaningful dialogue. You are trolls. End of story.
just what authoritarians want : NO DISSENT
Light
11-30-2006, 04:06 PM
Jr is insecure.Pity.
kenwoodallpromos
11-30-2006, 05:50 PM
good paraphrasing.
Now that all the military and politicians except the highest of the Bushites realize the war is hell, why don't you cut the Navy a little slack and admit that the "Mission Acomplished" sign was hung by the carrier crew tro announce that their deployment was over like everybody already knows? Everyone who claims it was Bush announcing the end of the war knows they are bs-ing and so does everyone else! It will even make you look smarter!!LOL!!
46zilzal
11-30-2006, 06:10 PM
Bush stated at the time that this was the end to major combat operations in Iraq but this assertion hinted to agree with the sign so carefully placed behind him
just what authoritarians want : NO DISSENT
No, we just want informed dissent! Rants and stupid comments only expose ignorance.
JustRalph
11-30-2006, 06:31 PM
Jr is insecure.Pity.
oh yeah, I get accused of that all the time..............
Light
11-30-2006, 08:34 PM
Its not an accusation. Its obvious.
Lefty
11-30-2006, 09:54 PM
zilly, the mainstream media sas Iraq is a civil war and then they take a poll? Laughable and the outcome obvious.
I shall remind you once again. You are in Canada. We don't care what you say.\
And if he was here, we still wouldn't care!
He has trolled his credibility. Got no worm on his hook. Can't even catch perch. It was probably HIM who got Kramer in trouble.
Secretariat
11-30-2006, 10:22 PM
zilly, the mainstream media sas Iraq is a civil war and then they take a poll? Laughable and the outcome obvious.
Powell: Iraq Is In A Civil War And Bush Should Stop Denying It
Speaking with CNN reporter Hala Gorani in Dubai today, former Secretary of State Colin Powell said Iraq’s violence meets the standard of a civil war and thinks President Bush needs to acknowledge that. According to Gorani’s report, Powell said if he were heading the State Department right now, he would recommend that the Bush administration adopt that language “in order to come to terms with the reality on the ground.”
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/11/29/powell-civil-war/
Watch it yourself. Wasn't Colin Powell in GW Bush's cabinet?
PaceAdvantage
12-01-2006, 03:19 AM
Wasn't Colin Powell in GW Bush's cabinet?
The use of the past tense there probably gives away the secret....
JustRalph
12-01-2006, 06:58 AM
The use of the past tense there probably gives away the secret....
:lol: :lol:
I was thinking the same thing..............I would say he was the biggest disappointment in the cabinet. He just didn't live up to the hype......kind of like Brady Quinn. I guess we should have known when his wife forbid him from running for president..........what kind of guy he really was.
JPinMaryland
12-01-2006, 04:38 PM
Or like when he went on tv and said that Saddam had tiny little ships out the Atlantic that could deliver tactical nukes into the US in 10-15 min. Everybody should have thought about that one for a while.
Or like when he took over as deputy operations office in the Americal Division right after the My Lai massacre. First red flag.
Secretariat
12-01-2006, 06:26 PM
The use of the past tense there probably gives away the secret....
Kind of like the past tense Republican Congress?
PaceAdvantage
12-02-2006, 12:05 AM
Kind of like the past tense Republican Congress?
What the hell was the point of that?
Admit it....you guys have turned into nothing more than trolls. Winning the mid-term election was probably the worst thing that could have happened to you personally (and 46 it seems), as far as posting on this board goes....
PaceAdvantage Originally Posted by Secretariat
Kind of like the past tense Republican Congress?
What the hell was the point of that?
Admit it....you guys have turned into nothing more than trolls. Winning the mid-term election was probably the worst thing that could have happened to you personally (and 46 it seems), as far as posting on this board goes..
The unresolved anger of the losing party.
The tables have turned. The worm has turned, karma is a bitch, etc, etc, etc. You guys have to get over it.
PaceAdvantage
12-02-2006, 01:14 AM
The unresolved anger of the losing party.
The tables have turned. The worm has turned, karma is a bitch, etc, etc, etc. You guys have to get over it.
Dude, the sad part is, I really don't care all that much. It is what it is, and there is nothing I can do about it....I just hope for the sake of the country that whoever is in power does what it takes to neuter those that want to do the United States harm.
As hard as it is for you to believe (and I realize you are projecting the feelings YOU had back in 2000 and 2004, but that's just an error on your part), I'm not angry. There is no karma, as far as I'm concerned. I have nothing TO get over.
It's frightening that you speak of all this as if it is some kind of SPORTING EVENT! To me, who is in charge of protecting America isn't a sporting event to be spoken about lightly...it's deadly serious business. I don't carry a scorecard with me and high five folks as if the Yankees just beat the Red Sox.....
Grow the f up.
lsbets
12-02-2006, 08:57 AM
Pa, that's the funniest thing about a lot of these recent posts - they assume that those who don't vote their way will carry the same anger they did when people didn't vote their way. It seems like accepting the results of a democratic election is a foreign concept to some folks, so they can't comprehend it when others do so.
JustRalph
12-02-2006, 09:31 AM
Karma, now that is funny. That is the difference right there. You actually believe in Karma. Get real.
I believe in Reintarnation.............
Hcap - I'm looking forward to watching you guys totally scew up. You guys have been sitting on the sidelines, shooting off you mouths at every chance. Now it's time to put up or shut up. Why, they aren't even in offce yet and the dems are backpeddling a three of the top six 100 hours promises they made, and Dodd even admitts they were lying as part of campaign hype!
:lol::lol::lol:
How can we be mad when we have a parade of fools performing for us!
This is the best thing to happen to the republicans. Belive it.
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