JUSTIN MORNEAU?!

[Bubbles]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AmS5xF4src3izG30DnwZyxgRvLYF?slug=ap-almvp&prov=ap&type=lgns

I'm as anti-Yankee as anyone, and even I can't see how this guy beats Derek Jeter for the MVP. Morneau had a great year, but he's not even the most valuable player on his own freaking TEAM! That's Johan Santana, one of the best pitchers in baseball. What more can Jeter do to make his case this year?

Jeter: .343 (second in the league), 14 homers, 97 RBI's (not bad for a guy hitting near the top of the lineup), 118 runs scored, 34 steals

Morneau: .321, 34 homers, 130 RBI's, 97 runs, 3 steals

Obviously, the power edge lies with the Twin. But Jeter kills him in 3 of 5 categories, and if you move him down to the 4 spot in that lineup, maybe he drives in 20, 25 more runs and gets 20 homers.

Only good part about this'll be seeing Steinbrenner go nuts...

[rgustafson]

If he beats Mauer for the batting title, he wins. That didn't happen. I think it's that simple.

[njcurveball]

This is just insane.

Anyone who knows baseball will tell you that Morneau is the 3rd or 4th Most Valuable TWIN!

He had 6 home runs (total) in the last 2 months when the Twins were battling for the Division.

I hate the Red Sox, but Ortiz would have been a much better choice if they wanted power, especially clutch power!

If you take Santana off the Twins, they are watching the playoffs at home, same with Mauer.

Give it to Ortiz or even Santana, but Morneau, PLEASE!

Just another bad day for baseball!

Jim

[skate]

then by the numbers you reported, morneau behind jeters would make a winning combo when batting.


but with a morneau then jeters batting order, jeters would not make a winning combo. as long as we count runs scored, to be a winner.

the fact that jeters is not batting forth happens because he'll be better off in another spot.

and, this does not intend to say that morneau is the best on his team, or that a part of his season was not very good. just overall.

[Valuist]

130 RBIs trumps anything Jeter had, although I think one could definitely make a strong case for Mauer as well. A catcher winning the batting title is impressive. And one could also argue that Ortiz and Dye both had better seasons than Morneau. The "winning" factor never used to matter in baseball but nowadays I guess it does. I can see it in basketball, where each player plays a big role in whether a team wins. And forget about pitchers being MVP; they already have their own award.

[JustRalph]

The big Hurt came in fourth. He should have won it. He damn near carried his team across the finish line.

[njcurveball]

.

the fact that jeters is not batting forth happens because he'll be better off in another spot.



You know your baseball! Torre never even batted Jeter 4th! How could he handle all that pressure?

Of course, Jeter did bat 3rd and in 82 at bats "only" hit 402!

Your argument was laughable. Any Minnesota fan would have given this to Mauer or Santana in a heartbeat.

As for the RBI totals, only a late slump by Raul Ibanez let Morneau hold second. I wonder if you think Ibanez is the MVP if he gets 8 more RBIs and passes Morneau?

But if you want to vote on stats, Ortiz kicked Morneau's ass from Boston to Minnesota. He had 54 home runs, 137 RBI, and 115 runs scored. He also had 119 walks.

Morneau was walked a total of 53 times all year. You can tell how much fear he strikes in the heart of opposing teams!

And he did have a grand total of ONE, count that ONE RBI the last week when Minnesota had a chance for the division.

He also hit ONE, count that ONE home run in the last 10 games for the Twins. I don't think that qualifies him for any "clutch hitting down the stretch" awards.

I know you must not watch a lot of baseball, so I will clue you in one more thing.

MORNEAU DID NOT BAT 4th! He hit 5th in the Minnesota lineup!

best to you,
Jim

[Valuist]

The big Hurt came in fourth. He should have won it. He damn near carried his team across the finish line.

Sorry but The Big Hurt is a DH. You can't give an MVP to a DH. And Ortiz had a better year than Thomas.

I do think they need to spell out what exactly the MVP is nowadays. In the past 10 years, team performance has been factored into the equation.

The more I think about it, Mauer should've won. A catcher who wins the batting title? When was the last time that happened?

[JPinMaryland]

The "winning" factor never used to matter in baseball but nowadays I guess it does. I can see it in basketball, where each player plays a big role in whether a team wins. ....


It has mattered for a long time. There was a controversy in 67 or 68 when Cepeda edged out Clemente and people thought it was because the Cards won the pennant and the Pirates did not. If you look at those numbers it seems Clemente had an edge given his excellent defensive skills and Cepeda having to play 1b. Offensively it was pretty close.

Anyhow I'll bet we could go back even further and find this sort of thing happening.

[njcurveball]

I guess it all depends on how you watch the race.

You may want to talk to the writers about the good ole 1987 NL MVP joke.

St. Louis won 95 games. Not counted in the voting was their heart breaking loss to the Twins in the Series, but they got to the big dance that year.

Soundly out of the race and trounced down the stretch, the Cubs won 76 games and finished last.

Andre Dawson had the magic numbers of 49 hrs, and 137 rbis. He won over the St. Louis tandem of Jack Clark and Ozzie Smith.

I always thought MVP meant you were invaluable to your team (meaning they would have trouble winning without you). Without Dawson that year, the Cubs finish last for sure. With him, they still finished last.

Tony Gwynn hit 370 that year and didn't even make it to the top 5 in the voting. I guess the argument there was that his team finished last. LOL!

MVP SHOULD BE different for the writers than simply looking up stats. They are the ones who watch games and should know when a player gets clutch hits with the game on the line or they manage to hit 3 run homers when the game is out of reach or a blowout.

[skate]

You know your baseball! Torre never even batted Jeter 4th! How could he handle all that pressure?

Of course, Jeter did bat 3rd and in 82 at bats "only" hit 402!

Your argument was laughable. Any Minnesota fan would have given this to Mauer or Santana in a heartbeat.

As for the RBI totals, only a late slump by Raul Ibanez let Morneau hold second. I wonder if you think Ibanez is the MVP if he gets 8 more RBIs and passes Morneau?

But if you want to vote on stats, Ortiz kicked Morneau's ass from Boston to Minnesota. He had 54 home runs, 137 RBI, and 115 runs scored. He also had 119 walks.

Morneau was walked a total of 53 times all year. You can tell how much fear he strikes in the heart of opposing teams!

And he did have a grand total of ONE, count that ONE RBI the last week when Minnesota had a chance for the division.

He also hit ONE, count that ONE home run in the last 10 games for the Twins. I don't think that qualifies him for any "clutch hitting down the stretch" awards.

I know you must not watch a lot of baseball, so I will clue you in one more thing.

MORNEAU DID NOT BAT 4th! He hit 5th in the Minnesota lineup!

best to you,
Jim

ya, best to ya , real sneakey.

im not at all sure why i would have to be an expert?

look at what point i made and you'll find either you have trouble with comprehension or you go to bed with your baseball glove.

whatever point you try to make has Nothing to do with the Point i made. can you see that?

[skate]

ya screwball;


did the "Skate" ever say that ANYBODY Batted 4th? hu?

gess!

[skate]

da screwballs;


ya got every other point screwed up also. you gots to think a little before you go off. chill it, try to be kool.

man , i can't believe where you come from.

what are you a Biggy Stat Pro.? man you must be awesome.

hey from here on out, ill take the stat test first, would that be OK with you? hu?
coarse, i never did use any stats.
just kinda took what others were saying.

hey but...:lol: :ThmbUp:

happy thanskgiving

[njcurveball]

ya, best to ya , .



Happy Turkey day to you too! :lol:

[boomman]

I obviously don't watch as much baseball as you guys do, because I wasn't privy to all of those stats, but here's my take...I don't think a pitcher or a dh should win the MVP award as only playing every 5 days or not playing the field isn't the complete MVP type player IMO...And although I enjoy watching the Twins during Spring Training at Fort Myers near my home, I was flabbergasted to see that Morneau won the MVP! I agree that he wasn't even MVP on his own team. For him to win the award over Jeter (and trust me I am the BIGGEST Yankee hater) is outrageous. Jeter SINGLE HANDEDLY kept the Yanks in the race, especially with all the injuries they had. I know Derek says that a World Series ring is all he cares about, (and that's admirable) but he had to about fell on the floor when he saw who he lost the MVP award to! Are these voters on drugs? Boom

[kenwoodallpromos]

In racing it is early speed; in baseball it is power, been that way since pitchers threw from on top of hills.
Baseball Triple Crown is BA, HR, RBI.
Ask anybody who is more famous, Reggie or Ricky Henderson!

[Bathless]

The Players got it right: JERMAINE DYE !!!

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/awards/y2006/players_choice.jsp?award=winners

The award is for OUTSTANDING Player, but what does MOST VALUABLE mean, anyway? There are dozens of theories about that, maybe more.

[kenwoodallpromos]

The Players got it right: JERMAINE DYE !!!

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/awards/y2006/players_choice.jsp?award=winners

The award is for OUTSTANDING Player, but what does MOST VALUABLE mean, anyway? There are dozens of theories about that, maybe more.
___________________
IMO, MVP Can mean more seats in the away game seats!

[Valuist]

The combined salary of the 2 MVPs; Howard and Morneau:

$700,000

[Valuist]

It has mattered for a long time. There was a controversy in 67 or 68 when Cepeda edged out Clemente and people thought it was because the Cards won the pennant and the Pirates did not. If you look at those numbers it seems Clemente had an edge given his excellent defensive skills and Cepeda having to play 1b. Offensively it was pretty close.

Anyhow I'll bet we could go back even further and find this sort of thing happening.

In 1987, Andre Dawson won the MVP on a last place team.

[Bathless]

The real head-scratcher for me was Zoilo Versalles winning the AL MVP in 1965, hitting .273 with 19 HRs and 77 RBIs. Fellow Twin Tony Oliva hit .321 that year with 16 HRs and 98 RBIs. Teammates Don Mincher, Bob Allison, Harmon Killebrew and Jimmy Hall all had 20+ HRs. The Twins were 102-60 in 1965.

I guess the writers/voters believed Zoilo was 'clutch' and the term 'inspired play' was used a lot to describe him. If I remember, he was a bit of a butcher in the field. With 39 errors, he certainly was not a Gold Glover.

[skate]

The combined salary of the 2 MVPs; Howard and Morneau:

$700,000

that was then...

if either, Howard or Morneau, were to bat in all nine positions in each and every game, for the 162 games, they might win between 130 to 161 games.

if they oppose a Jeter line, who bats in all nine positions.

hey, and that does not say they are the best players (for those that refuse to read w/ comprehension)

[skate]

The real head-scratcher for me was Zoilo Versalles winning the AL MVP in 1965, hitting .273 with 19 HRs and 77 RBIs. Fellow Twin Tony Oliva hit .321 that year with 16 HRs and 98 RBIs. Teammates Don Mincher, Bob Allison, Harmon Killebrew and Jimmy Hall all had 20+ HRs. The Twins were 102-60 in 1965.

I guess the writers/voters believed Zoilo was 'clutch' and the term 'inspired play' was used a lot to describe him. If I remember, he was a bit of a butcher in the field. With 39 errors, he certainly was not a Gold Glover.;;

Bathless;

i have trouble writing that name, i gotta check, how ya been?

hey, consider about Zoilo (never heard the name) that was back when they left their gloves on the field for the other team. you have to give him a break, no?