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Ron
11-21-2006, 01:07 PM
Any word or speculation?

Suff
11-21-2006, 01:15 PM
A state panel in New York is poised to recommend its choice for a new franchise holder to run racing at Aqueduct, Belmont, and Saratoga racetracks on Tuesday, Nov. 21.



The Ad Hoc Committee on the Future of Racing has completed its major review of the three remaining bids and is leaning to vote on a franchise award at its meeting in Saratoga Springs.

State officials declined comment, but sources close to the board said the meeting will be a crucial one that will likely include a public discussion of the specific proposals made by the bidders. Two sources said they expected the committee to vote on a franchise proposal at the meeting. Another state official cautioned Monday evening that he did not expect a final vote by the panel. An official with ties to the committee said while some details of the bids could be revealed there are indications that the panel's members will not be able to reach a concensus on a final recommendation.

In the running is the current franchise holder, the New York Racing Association. It is running what could be an uphill battle against two formidable opponents: Empire Racing Associates and Excelsior Racing Associates. Empire includes New York horsemen, as well as Magna Entertainment and Churchill Downs, among others. Excelsior includes New York Yankees partner Steve Swindal, casino developer Richard Fields and others.

The state committee, which includes representatives of Gov. George Pataki and legislative leaders from the Assembly and Senate, has been poring over the bids for months.

Its decision will be, however, non-binding on the Legislature and governor.

The timing has also left matters muddled. Pataki leaves office in little more than a month; he is being replaced by Eliot Spitzer, the state's current attorney general who has been a frequent critic over the years of NYRA. Legislators on the racing committee have said a decision on a new franchise holder will not come until next year to give the governor-elect an opportunity to decide the future of the racing industry. However, there have been various theories running rampant in recent weeks at the state Capitol how the racing franchise could still somehow appear in a last-minute session by lawmakers if they return to Albany before the end of the year. The ad hoc committee has been looking at dozens of factors in judging the bids, including fiscal health of the bidders, what types of changes needed to state law to make the thoroughbred racing model work in New York and on a plan to bring video lottery terminals to Belmont racetrack.

kenwoodallpromos
11-21-2006, 02:30 PM
Probably be the NYRA, but my personal choice is Empire; the 3rd is my longshot favorite! That covers me on all 3!!LOL!!

the little guy
11-21-2006, 02:33 PM
NYRA can't win this " recomendation " and it is completely irrelevent as Spitzer is not going to take into account what comes out of Governor Pataki's Ad-Hoc committee.

Call it what it is....a monumental waste of time.

Ron
11-21-2006, 03:04 PM
Good point!

LaughAndBeMerry
11-21-2006, 03:13 PM
1. It's not likely to be NYRA.

2. It isn't binding on the governor, it's simply a recommendation.

3. Pataki has no interest in touching this anyway since it's Spitzer's problem now.

4. It's incredible that the entire process has gotten this f*****d up.

LaughAndBeMerry
11-21-2006, 05:42 PM
Excelsior Racing Associates has been selected by a state government committee in New York to be the next holder of the franchise to run racing at Aqueduct, Belmont and Saratoga racetracks.The non-binding decision by the Ad Hoc Committee on the Future of Racing recommended to the governor and state lawmakers that Excelsior get the franchise over the New York Racing Association, which placed a distant third in the scoring system by the panel. Empire Racing Associates, whose partners include New York horsemen, Magna Entertainment and Churchill Downs, scored second behind Excelsior....

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=36474


My personal opinion is that Empire took on too many partners (adding an ex- NY governor this past weekend) and really overplayed their hand. I don't think this will end it, as NYRA has said they will litigate.

Suff
11-21-2006, 05:47 PM
My personal opinion is that Empire took on too many partners (adding an ex- NY governor this past weekend) and really overplayed their hand. I don't think this will end it, as NYRA has said they will litigate.

Gary Contessa and Jerry Bailey are in this group. Basically its the Horsemens choice as Contessa is thier surrogate.

the little guy
11-21-2006, 05:52 PM
Excelsior was like 1:1000 to win this recommendation. Of course they won.

It's actually kind of funny how much time they pretended to spend picking this winner.

LaughAndBeMerry
11-21-2006, 05:55 PM
Contessa is NOT their advocate. The horsemen through their support to Empire. Contessa pissed them off big time when he decided ON HIS OWN to join the Excelsior board.

This will be interesting.

LaughAndBeMerry
11-21-2006, 05:57 PM
Excelsior was like 1:1000 to win this recommendation. Of course they won.

It's actually kind of funny how much time they pretended to spend picking this winner.

You make a very good point. I don't think they could give it to NYRA, and I don't think they could give it to Magna.

kenwoodallpromos
11-21-2006, 07:01 PM
:jump:

Bruddah
11-21-2006, 07:16 PM
on this one. It was written in stone, the day they announced. Can you spell Cronieism (sp) Cronnism (sp) Cronyism...Yeah that's the Ticket !! :D

cj
11-22-2006, 09:21 AM
Here is a link to the Sirius satellite show, starring the little guy, that talks about this issue:

http://stream.attheracesandbeyond.com/stream/112106c.mp3

It does not stream, but will download to your machine.

aaron
11-24-2006, 02:31 PM
I listened to the TLG on sirrus,the one good point he made was that no one was interested in the franchise till slots were included.From the interview,the only thing that seems to be certain is that no matter who gets the franchise the player will suffer.There seems to be a complete lack of interest in the customer.
TLG has shown blind allegiance to NYRA.I don't know why,this is the same organization that once fired him.I guess he has a good working relation with the new administration,which seems to be tied into the DRF.At this point it probably doesn't matter who wins the franchise.We have two bidders who are only interested in the slots and one bidder who has been incompetent,as far as making business decisions for over thirty years.

Indulto
11-24-2006, 11:05 PM
… the one good point he made was that no one was interested in the franchise till slots were included.I agree with him and I’m certainly glad I do after the statement, “This battle is over getting the rights to slot machines, to slots revenue in New York State, and anybody that suggests otherwise is either lying or STUPID.”

That’s the spirit! :D … blind allegiance to NYRA.The other two regulars also appeared to prefer NYRA. I agree with you – and presumably them – that the player will suffer if NYRA loses the franchise. That might also explain any apparent NYRA support among horseplaying DRF columnists.

Did anybody else who listened get the impression Bob Fox was being dogged? Sounded almost like the moderator could have used the assistance of a leash and a muzzle. :lol:

the little guy
11-25-2006, 01:21 AM
I listened to the TLG on sirrus,the one good point he made was that no one was interested in the franchise till slots were included.From the interview,the only thing that seems to be certain is that no matter who gets the franchise the player will suffer.There seems to be a complete lack of interest in the customer.
TLG has shown blind allegiance to NYRA.I don't know why,this is the same organization that once fired him.I guess he has a good working relation with the new administration,which seems to be tied into the DRF.At this point it probably doesn't matter who wins the franchise.We have two bidders who are only interested in the slots and one bidder who has been incompetent,as far as making business decisions for over thirty years.


I have a blind allegiance to NYRA? Good to know. When I have criticized them for past decisions was I...what...throwing up a smokescreen? Has it occured to you that one of the reasons may be because I know the people who are currently running NYRA and believe them to be extremely competent? Or, perhaps since you consider me to be blindly following them, I guess I must be hypnotized. Also good to know.

The basic problem is that people on the internet feel free to make unknowledgable and random accusations. NYRA is a favorite target ( Andy Beyer is another ) and I often find myself compelled to offer at least kernels of truth to at least attempt to even the playing field ( you know....truth vs. lies ). To those that make these unknowledgable accusations I guess this is some sort of blind devotion when in fact it is just an attempt to insert some accuracy into the usual internet blather.

Here's something else for you....since you know that I was fired at NYRA doesn't it make sense that if I had a bias it would be against them?

aaron
11-25-2006, 09:30 AM
TLG-
In my post I did mention that you probably have an allegiance to the current administration.I do agree their are issues that you do take a stand against NYRA.
I also don't know how Andy Beyers name got into this post,I have always thought he was great for racing.
Along those lines NYRA fired Harvey Pack who was the best ambassador of racing that NY racing has ever had.
Now,you can tell me that this administration is great,but if you go to the grandstand at Aqueduct or Belmont you'll hear a different stoty.
The real knock on NYRA,is that as an organization they have failed for over 30 years.
Can this administration turn it around ? Who knows.Are they extremely competent,as you say.I haven't seen anything to indicate this.The last administration did lower the takeout.As a player this is what is important.
I also am aware that many of their problems are politically motivated,which is not necessarily their fault,but if the governing organization in charge of racing is not able to work with the politicians,what chance does racing have to prosper ?

the little guy
11-25-2006, 10:32 AM
First of all, you misunderstood my post. But that's to be expected.

Let me say something else....." NYRA " did fire Harvey Pack....that is correct. The " NYRA " that fired Harvey Pack was run by Terry Meyocks. That is the same " NYRA " that fired me ( not to in any way put myself in Harvey's league ). Terry is no longer running NYRA and has absolutely nothing to do with it. " NYRA " is a name....the people running " NYRA " at the present time are NOT the ones in charge when the rampant problems were created. Those people are gone.

Tom
11-25-2006, 10:49 AM
Firing Harvey was a dark day indeed.
It is like spitting on Santa at the mall.
There is a special place in HELL for Terry - that offers only greyhound racing - all day, everyday. At Charlestown. :mad:

aaron
11-25-2006, 10:53 AM
We can go round and round debating the issues...there is your truth and mine and somewhere in the middle is THE TRUTH. I can only react to what I see day by day in the trenches. I keep my ears open to what is being said at the track and it is not flattering. If what you say is true, and I believe you believe it to be, where is this change? Where is the fairness to the racing customer? This is the administration that took away free admissions to its account holders and placed the blame on Eliot Spitzer who was not even governor at the time. What happened to our parking lot? This really shows lack of consideration for the racing public. How come previous administrations were able to keep the lot open to its patrons? This is the administration that put in inferior betting machines that were turned down by New Jersey because they were not bettor friendly. Doesn't it make more sense to facilitate betting in any way possible, rather than make it more difficult? The track has become one obstacle after another to interfere with the racing publics pleasure at being there and placing bets.

PlanB
11-25-2006, 11:05 AM
First of all, you misunderstood my post. But that's to be expected.

Let me say something else....." NYRA " did fire Harvey Pack....that is correct. The " NYRA " that fired Harvey Pack was run by Terry Meyocks. That is the same " NYRA " that fired me ( not to in any way put myself in Harvey's league ). Terry is no longer running NYRA and has absolutely nothing to do with it. " NYRA " is a name....the people running " NYRA " at the present time are NOT the ones in charge when the rampant problems were created. Those people are gone.

LOL, only in the fuzzy world of NYRA-land would this hold any truth. NYRA is toxic in name & reputation, 2 very important business issues. In corporate land when a company changes hands, either from being purchased privately or from changing its leadership, the new guards GET IT ALL, including its repuation and its good will. And recall, that accountants will almost always consider a company's Good Will as an asset or, in NYRA's case, a deficit.

the little guy
11-25-2006, 08:04 PM
The parking lot was taken away by the Port Authority. Blaming that on NYRA invalidates your arguments.

Next thing you know people will start blaming bad weather on NYRA. It's as silly as it is tiresome.

ELA
11-25-2006, 08:21 PM
The parking lot was taken away by the Port Authority. Blaming that on NYRA invalidates your arguments.

Next thing you know people will start blaming bad weather on NYRA. It's as silly as it is tiresome.

Wait a minute -- are you telling me that the weather is not their fault? Come on now! LOL.

Eric

aaron
11-25-2006, 10:27 PM
TLG-
How come the Port Authority was able to allow other administrations to use their lot? Were the inferior betting machines put in by the present administration? Were NYRA ONE admissions taken away by the present administrations after being in place for about 10 years? If the current administration is so customer conscious how come they charge their customers $1.00 for grandstand admission, but $4.00 for preferred parking when they know the parking lot was taken by the Port Authority?
Your arguments are not valid because you deem not address any problems that NYRA has. There are so many negative attitudes permeating the workings of NYRA, it allows very little patron friendly feelings. When Barry Schwartz was the CEO, there were far fewer complaints heard from the populace. Now, that population has dwindled. Just go to the third floor grandstand and you will see your administration in action. It is pitiful to see how this pastime is becoming, truly, a past time. Please take off you blinders and really look at what racing at the track has become. It is NOT a pretty picture.

the little guy
11-25-2006, 10:52 PM
The free admission for NYRA-One customers were taken away by the State when an ages old law was uncovered. Once again....I guess that's NYRA's fault.

ELA
11-25-2006, 10:56 PM
The free admission for NYRA-One customers were taken away by the State when an ages old law was uncovered. Once again....I guess that's NYRA's fault.

Don't forget, so was the spousal badges, overnight passes, will-call passes and so on. Under that archaic law only owners, jockeys and trainers could get free admission. NYRA fought hard to get spousal badges back, and so did Getnick & Getnick (Neil Getnick) because they realized the law was foolish and hurt racing; and that NYRA shouldn't be penalized and have to deal with such foolishness.

Eric

the little guy
11-25-2006, 11:25 PM
I don't think anyone would argue that past administrations at NYRA did some horrendous things and much of today's problems stem from them. However, what people also don't seem to realize is the incredible strain that is placed on NYRA by the State...and yes much of it stems from the abuses committed by past administrations. However, the current leadership has tried very hard to change things....and has in many ways.

Unfortunately because the current NYRA is fighting to keep the franchise other possible problems may not be getting the attention they perhaps deserve. It is basically an untenable situation. My hope, and belief, is that should the current administration retain the franchise, and subsequently change some of the state statutes then many of these problems will be dealt with. It isn't as though I have seen anything from the other bidders as to how they will move things forward.

aaron
11-26-2006, 08:43 AM
TLG,-
I agree with your last post,that much of today's problems at NYRA stem from past administrations.You are also correct that we haven't seen much from the other bidders.A question I have for you is " why would trainer Gary Contessa and former jockey Jerry Bailey support the other groups ?
In what ways has the current admistration tried to change things to make the track a "bettor" place to attend races ?
The one thing I will give the current administration credit for is that they did stop the swing in odds flucuations after the races had gone off ? That is a plus.
This administration has probably lost more on track regular bettors than any of the prior administrations.If you would walk around Aqueduct you would find many familar faces missing.Most of these people did not stop betting,they are betting at other venues.For instance, there is a large group of sheet players who now frequent the "The Palace" in Nassau County rather than go to the track.If NYRA is not going to try to get people into the track to bet horses,then they are just another group bidding for NY's slot business.
Since you know what is going on at NYRA,why not list the problems and how NYRA plans to do to correct them ?
Another question I have and I don't think their is an answer to- Is why after all these years has the state become so anti NYRA ?
As you say,NYRA inherited problems from the other administrations.Most of those problems were allowed to go on for 30 plus years and the state looked the other way.Why all of sudden come down so hard on NYRA ? The state could have quietly made a deal to let NYRA to continue to run NY racing,while the state in cojunction with NYRA, controlled the slot business,which would allow the state to keep all their patronage jobs which are run through the OTB's.

PlanB
11-26-2006, 10:59 AM
I think its wishful & naive to think NYRA can keep the franchise. The business model before slots came (plus other factors) defined NYRA. Now the run is over. New business approaches have nothing to do with NYRA's past sins or the good & improved new leadership; NYRA is OVER. The only chance is IF the courts decide that NYRA owns the land (or any land for that matter). That's why NYRA is being squeezed so hard, for cash & delaying slots. It was already decided months ago --- months ago --- that NYRA would go. It's the way corporate moves happen. Most of you here talk of ROI regarding horses; the deciders in NY racing need to present an ROI to some major investors. I think the model will be, Keep racing non-profit (ie, NY STATE gets the bucks) and make the casino portion generate big dollars-4-profit, giving the investors an ROI. PLEASE, don't think I side with that squeeze play, it's just so clear to me having seen sharks & whales behave before. And just one final thought: I think the hard-2-grasp concept of "what-the-heck-is-NYRA anyway?" IOWs, what kinda legal entity is NYRA, made it easy to dump. My concern is will the new leaders make us pay bucks for THEIR signal?

the little guy
11-26-2006, 12:22 PM
Why did Contessa and Bailey " support " Excelsior? Not sure about Contessa, and I don't want to guess unfairly, but for Bailey it was what has always motivated him....money.

Why did the State " suddenly " turn on NYRA? Spitzer found them to be an easy target in his crusades....and frankly deservedly so. The bottom line is that NYRA's change in management in the mid 90s led them down, at best, a slippey slope and the arrogance and abuses by those in charge were excessive. How they avoided trouble then, and even got a franchise extension, is really conjecture, and while I would say I have a pretty good idea, let's just say one can probably figure it out for themselves and I think it is understandable why it is not something for me to speculate on here. Sometimes throwing support to certain politicians works and sometimes it doesn't and sometimes one does not want, or care to, support the ones that matter.

I think you actually have answered your own questions about why attendance has dramatically dwindled at NYRA racetracks. In the mid 90s NYRA decided to effectively give their signal away to viewers, offering it essentially " free " cable to pretty much everyone in NY State, and thus severely decreasing the urgency to go to the racetrack. As account wagering spread the need to go to the track, being that anyone and everyone could simply watch at home, became nonexistant. Now, you talk about people flocking to the Nassau teletheater, " The Palace ", and mention all the sheet players going there. Well, OTB is able to offer perks that NYRA has been forbidden to offer, and thus was given an unfair advantage over NYRA. I am guessing that these " sheet " players probably get, at least, free access to the sheets. Why, you ask, can an organization such as OTB that has a barnicle type relationship with NYRA offer things that their " host " ( NYRA that is ) cannot? Well, politicians use OTB as a major source of political patronage jobs and thus allow them pretty much everything they want while continually stifling the organization that pays the bills.....NYRA. This situation is a perfect example of why things are so difficult for NYRA.

Once again, you can view this as taking a pro-NYRA stance, but all it really is would be a surface discussion of the basically untenable situation NYRA finds itself in.

aaron
11-26-2006, 01:06 PM
TLG
I don't view your last reply as pro NYRA. I view it has a simple and concise answer to problems that exsist.
The Palace in Nassau downs does in fact give the big sheet players perks that NYRA can't give them.This has caused NYRA to lose some of its bigger bettors.I have spoken to the people who sell the sheets at NYRA and they have told me that on most days they sell less than 10 sets per day.
I agree NYRA has no control over this.I feel that NYRA should cater to its clientele. I know many players who used to go to Aqueduct 4-5 days a week,who now won't go there at all.These are not your "big players",but they are players who for many years have wagered between $50000 and $100,000 a year.These are the players NYRA should be catering to.I also understand that NYRA can't compete with the offshore bookmakers when it comes to rebates,but I think they can do a better job of recoginizing their base customer and catering to them.
I think a lot of resentment toward NYRA started with the changing of the betting machines.I don't know if you agree or not,but this was not a well thought out plan.Most people at the track feel these machines are inferior.This is the type of mistake that should not happen.The machines should have been tested before they were installed.I know NYRA got a "deal"on these machines,but they replaced machines that were working far better.
To be honest, I think we have both asked questions that cannot be answered,because the more questions you ask the more you have to come to the conclusion that whoever gets the franchise is just after the slot machine revenue and that the politicians are controlling the game.Live racing is in trouble and I don't know if there is any way to reverse the trend.
One last question and this is not a criticism of NYRA losing its parking lot.I accept your answer on that one.I'm just wondering when slots come to Aqueduct,where will the customers park ? Somehow, at that time I feel the politicians we'll make a deal.

the little guy
11-26-2006, 01:20 PM
Your question about the parking and slots is a very good one and sort of gets to the heart of why the Port Authority took that land now as opposed to later. It is highly likely that this is the last meet at Aqueduct that will begin without slots so this time was probably the last that the PA could seize that land without, at least, incurring some wrath outside of the negligent racing press.

However, NYRA knows the problem you bring up will obviously occur, and thus realizes that they will need to build a substantial parking garage. Any guess as to what the estimates for that garage are? Let's just say that NY State, through the Port Authority, has thrown yet another substantial bill into NYRA's lap.

The beat goes on.

aaron
11-26-2006, 01:45 PM
TLG-
Somehow, I feel down the road the powers that be will find a way to get slots into Belmont Park.
As for your comments on Jerry Bailey, I feel sadly that you are probably right and he is probably only motivted by financial gain. In my opinion he should have remined neutral in all this. I feel Gary Contessa has some fear that racing dates will be cut{which wouldn't be a bad idea} and I guess he is trying to align himself with which agency he feels will be best suited to guarantee racing dates will contiue as is.
Another thing I find interesting is that since all this contoversey about who will run NY racing has occured we have heard almost nothing about the super trainers and drug controversey. Did this problem go away or did everybody just lose interest.I know Andy Beyer has commented on this many times,I was just wondering what your take is ?

the little guy
11-26-2006, 01:54 PM
I found Contessa's comments about the racing dates to be a convenient excuse. I highly doubt he, or any trainers, were concerned about racing dates. These would have been strictly enforced by the State and NYRA has certainly given proof that they will go ahead and race regardless of any outside problems. To be perfectly honest, and I have listened to it again, I believe Mr. Contessa used a lot of words to say very little in that radio segment and I was given very little opportunity to have an actual dialogue with him. Can't say I blame him but it was hardly a two sided debate.

I know for a fact that NYRA has major concerns about the drug issues but the way to do something about it seems to somehow elude everyone's reach.

saratoga guy
11-26-2006, 02:02 PM
We have two bidders who are only interested in the slots and one bidder who has been incompetent,as far as making business decisions for over thirty years.

Another question I have and I don't think their is an answer to- Is why after all these years has the state become so anti NYRA ?


This demonstrates what I've found frustrating about this whole debate over the past few months -- racing fans can be an intelligent bunch, but many seem either uninformed on this issue, or perhaps just unable to take the time to really digest all the facts (which is understandable, there's plenty more to life than the NY franchise debate).

"...incompetent,as far as making business decisions for over thirty years," is a fairly brash statement and one that I don't feel is fair. But more importantly in this debate -- let's compare complaints against NYRA to other racetrack operators.

NYRA is in financial trouble. OK. Anybody check out Magna's finances lately? A recent news report tells of Magna Ent Corp (the racetrack owner) using proceeds from their sale of The Meadows racetrack to re-pay a loan from a parent company, MI Developments Inc. The Magna Ent CEO was quoted, "MEC still has significant work to do to achieve financial stability and we continue to evaluate alternatives with respect to how best to assist them in these efforts."

An article from early 2005 says, "Magna is on pace to run out of money in two years, said Ivan Feinseth, an analyst at Matrix USA LLC in New York, who rates Magna shares strong sell"

NYRA had trouble with the Aqueduct track surface. Anybody paying attention to Churchill-operated Arlington this summer? They had trouble with their track all summer long. Or how about the Hollywood Park turf fiasco last year?

Point-being: Over the past couple of years any problem that NYRA has brings out the boo-birds who point and say "Enough of NYRA!" -- but where among the two alternatives do you really see an entity that is guaranteed to offer a better product and service?

And in answer to your question, "why after all these years has the state become so anti NYRA?"

Doesn't the obvious answer lie in the fact that the "anti-NYRA" sentiment popped up almost simultaneously with the OK for slots in the state?

MONEY!

Is it a coincidence that Joe Bruno's kid was a Magna lobbyist -- or the Elliot Spitzer was getting free plane rides on the private jet of an Excelsior partner -- and there is an "anti-NYRA" sentiment?

cj
11-26-2006, 02:05 PM
This demonstrates what I've found frustrating about this whole debate over the past few months -- racing fans can be an intelligent bunch, but many seem either uninformed on this issue, or perhaps just unable to take the time to really digest all the facts (which is understandable, there's plenty more to life than the NY franchise debate).


I think this hits the nail on the head. Most people with no real involvement don't care, but because it is the internet, they post even if they don't care or even know much about it. I've done it myself.

Then there are others that post nothing but anti-NYRA / pro-Magna links. They clearly have an agenda for whatever reason.

Indulto
11-26-2006, 05:38 PM
... MONEY!

Is it a coincidence that Joe Bruno's kid was a Magna lobbyist -- or the Elliot Spitzer was getting free plane rides on the private jet of an Excelsior partner -- and there is an "anti-NYRA" sentiment?http://www.nytransit.org/mn_legissues/AU04/031304.html (http://www.nytransit.org/mn_legissues/AU04/031304.html)

... MAGNA EYES NYRA: The embattled New York Racing Association is facing a bid by the manufacturing and racing company Magna to win part of its business. The Times Union reported that Magna is interested in running the proposed VLT casino at NYRA's Aqueduct Raceway. Magna has hired lobbyists Pat Lynch and Ken Bruno at $110,000 each and [former U.S. Senator] Alfonse D'Amato at $10,000 a month. Lynch is the former top aide to Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver, Bruno is the son of Senate Majority Leader Joseph Bruno, and D'Amato masterminded Gov. George Pataki's 1994 election.Spitzer Took Rides on Private Plane of Gambling Figure By JACOB GERSHMAN
http://www.nysun.com/article/38575 (http://www.nysun.com/article/38575)

… On May 24 and 25, Mr. Spitzer and a campaign staffer used a private jet owned by the developer, Richard Fields, to shuttle between fund-raisers in Phoenix, Tucson, Ariz., and Cincinnati. The campaign reimbursed Mr. Fields a total of $4,300 for three flights.

… The Faso campaign is accusing Mr. Spitzer of underpaying for the flights by $37,678.

… New York lobbyists may charge the commercial fare as long as the flight originates at an airport where first-class flights are available, according to the executive director of the state lobbying commission, David Grandeau. If such first-class flights are not available, then the reimbursement rate is the price for an equivalent flight on a chartered jet.

Spitzer campaign officials say the $4,300 reimbursement is what it estimated as the cost of two tickets on three first-class flights...Racing Ties by Elizabeth Benjamin
http://blogs.timesunion.com/capitol/?p=2828 (http://blogs.timesunion.com/capitol/?p=2828)

Since the Ad Hoc Committee on the Future of Racing recommended that Excelsior Racing Associates take over running the Saratoga, Belmont and Aqueduct tracks from the New York Racing Association, it seems an apt time to review the players of the entity posied to control the potentially lucrative franchise (if the state Legislature and the next governor agree).

Excelsior is led by New York Yankees partner Steve Swindal (son-in-law of team owner, George Steinbrenner) and Richard Fields, a casino developer who was a big donor to Governor-elect Eliot Spitzer’s campaign.

Other Excelsior players reportedly include:

William Mulrow, former state Comptroller candidate and a close friend of Spitzer.
William Powers, lobbyist and former state GOP chairman.
Ex-jockey Jerry Bailey.
The Rev. Floyd Flake, a former Congressman and member of Spitzer’s transition team.
Jerry Bilinski, former chairman of the Racing & Wagering Board and a friend of Senate Majority Leader Joseph Bruno, R-Brunswick.
Political strategist Howard Wolfson, acts as Excelsior’s spokesman.
Tishman Speyer Properties, Excelsior’s real estate partner, developed plans to rebuild Yankees stadium.
I find the Powers/Wolfson connection particularly amusing, since these two were on opposite sides of the 20th CD battle.

Powers is a longtime supporter and political mentor of U.S. Rep. John Sweeney, R-Clifton Park, while Wolfson, a top adviser to U.S. Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-NY, advised Democrat Kirsten Gillibrand, who ousted Sweeney on Election Day.

aaron
11-26-2006, 07:50 PM
Saratoga Guy-
Past administrations of the NYRA have proven to be incompetent.
Case in point and probably the beginning of the downfall of live racing in NY was the decision not to control their destiny by giving away their signal and not taking control of the OTB's from the beginning.If NYRA had insisted that OTB's and NYRA were all under one umbrella controlled by NYRA we probably wouldn't have this thread today.NYRA gave up its signal to the OTB's for a fraction of what the signal is worth.Even in later years if the administration had had the nerve to play hardball and withhold its signal for a bigger piece of the pie NYRA would probably be better off today.At this point I don't believe they have enough leverage to do anything about the signal.

aaron
11-26-2006, 08:03 PM
One other point on the past administrations at NYRA-
They fired Harvey Pack, Paul Cornman and the TLG.They gave Steve Crist a position where he would have little impact.They hired Gerald Mckeon and Kenny Noe.

the little guy
11-26-2006, 08:19 PM
One other point on the past administrations at NYRA-
They fired Harvey Pack, Paul Cornman and the TLG.They gave Steve Crist a position where he would have little impact.They hired Gerald Mckeon and Kenny Noe.

Paul Cornman quit....he was not fired.

saratoga guy
11-26-2006, 09:48 PM
Saratoga Guy-
Past administrations of the NYRA have proven to be incompetent.
Case in point and probably the beginning of the downfall of live racing in NY was the decision not to control their destiny by giving away their signal and not taking control of the OTB's from the beginning.If NYRA had insisted that OTB's and NYRA were all under one umbrella controlled by NYRA we probably wouldn't have this thread today.NYRA gave up its signal to the OTB's for a fraction of what the signal is worth.Even in later years if the administration had had the nerve to play hardball and withhold its signal for a bigger piece of the pie NYRA would probably be better off today.At this point I don't believe they have enough leverage to do anything about the signal.


A) These are thirty year old decisions -- kind of like shaking your finger at the Ford Motor Company in 2006 for their decision to build the Edsel.

B) These decisions are "incompetent" with the benefit of thirty years of hindsight. NY was the first state to have an OTB system and it was hard to know what it would turn out to be. Same with the sale of the simulcast signals -- the internet and satellite TV signals have made simulcast $$$ a huge piece of the gambling pie, but both technologies were over the horizon when the original simulcast deals were made.

C) Again, for this discussion, do you have confidence that either of the NYRA alternative would have made better decisions? And, if so, what in their histories makes you believe that?

saratoga guy
11-26-2006, 09:50 PM
One other point on the past administrations at NYRA-
They fired Harvey Pack, Paul Cornman and the TLG.They gave Steve Crist a position where he would have little impact.They hired Gerald Mckeon and Kenny Noe.

Which of the NYRA alternatives benefitted from NYRA's "mistake" and hired Pack, TLG or Crist?

the little guy
11-26-2006, 09:52 PM
Which of the NYRA alternatives benefitted from NYRA's "mistake" and hired Pack, TLG or Crist?


If it makes them feel better I probably would have signed Pavano as well.

andicap
11-27-2006, 12:10 AM
this is just a question really.

Since NYRA is so insistent that it owns the property and the RFP said explicitly that any group that claimed ownership of the tracks would be disqualified, it seems to me NYRA had no chance at the outset.

And if NYRA continues to maintain its ownership of the land (and as I am not a lawyer I have no idea who has the proper claim), it seems impossible that it will win the franchise.

Does this make sense?

And anyone who thinks NYRA's "record" over the last 30 years has anything to do with who wins the franchise could be the most politically naive person alive. But to single out Spitzer as a sleazy wheeler-dealer is unfair (although two wrongs don't make a right): The Republicans did all the same things in keeping the old NYRA group in power.
Dems, Reps -- it's irrelevant. In Albany it's all about three people making the important decisions in helping the people who put and keep them in power: (Assembly Speaker) Silver, Bruno and the Gov.

the little guy
11-27-2006, 12:17 AM
Actually the land ownership claim by NYRA was not technically what basically disqualified them from the RFP. Because they claim to own the land they did not include lease payments in their RFP which is what basically made it impossible for them to win. They did, however, include payments ( I believe $101 million ) for Aqueduct if there were slots and another payment if Belmont got slots.

Indulto
11-27-2006, 04:41 AM
Actually the land ownership claim by NYRA was not technically what basically disqualified them from the RFP. Because they claim to own the land they did not include lease payments in their RFP which is what basically made it impossible for them to win. They did, however, include payments ( I believe $101 million ) for Aqueduct if there were slots and another payment if Belmont got slots.Interesting intelligence introduced from the inner sanctum. It suggests that the bankruptcy filing was indeed an offensive rather than a defensive maneuver. Not that its source would ever address my sheer speculation, but even in the unlikely event NYRA were to win a verdict saying they own the land, what’s to prevent the Governor from still awarding the franchise to Excelsior who has the obvious resources and influence to develop an alternate racing site during 2007 at which to conduct racing in 2008.

With most handle derived from off-track sources, they could go forward while waiting for NYRA to be forced financially to sell. As a historical site, how can Saratoga Racetrack be sold for other use against the Governor’s wishes? A synthetic surface is surely somewhere in New York State’s future, but where is it written that it has to be constructed at an existing thoroughbred venue?

Perhaps New York State wants to fire NYRA. Firings are seldom fair and usually motivated by economic or even political rather than personal considerations. Just ask Braulio Baeza. Maybe at this point, NYRA is simply too distracted by the unnecessary to deal effectively with the necessary in order to defend itself against determined efforts to disembowel it. The siege mentality has already set in.

My personal preference for NYRA has been based on its proven ability to produce the premier racing product on the continent. I now have my doubts because this year so many graded races had such small, uncompetitive fields. The nadir arrived October 7 with an odds-on chalk festival on what should have been New York racing’s finest day.

Like all of Bernardini’s New York engagements, the Cigar Mile was just another serving of Sheikh ’n Bake. They might as well outsource to the UAE. The newest Jocky Club members might go for it. Imagine signal rights worth more than oil rights! I can see it now: Durkin does Dubai.

While New York politicians no longer nourish NYRA, neither do they encourage EMPIRE whose supreme success in its search for slots revenue was to solicit out-of–state support to seek in-state dollars spent on those machines. So it’s not surprising that the most significant aspect of EXCELSIOR’s bid involved the pension fund. What the State appears to want is an EQUITABLE divorce settlement.

aaron
11-27-2006, 08:06 AM
Saratoga Guy
NYRA over the years has not made good business decisions.I don't think anyone can argue with that.You ask the question is do I have confidence that either of the NYRA alternatives would have made better decisions.My answer is no,I don't have confidence that either of the alternatives would have made better decisions.
Going forward,who do you think will make the best decision ? Do you go forward with a entity who has made bad decisions,but has new management in place,or do you opt for a complete change in leadership,which one of the NYRA alternatives will offer.
I don't get a vote nor do I have an answer,but I do go to the racetrack more often than most people and I would be for any entity that would improve the on track facility.I haven't seen this problem addressed by any of the participants.I'd like better betting machines,tellers that are competent and polite,concession stands open in the grandstand during the week and a basic respect shown to your customers who attend the races.The way racing is today most patrons have the feeling that the people in charge really don't care if anyone attends the races.The exception to this being Belmont Day and the Saratoga meet.

alysheba88
11-27-2006, 08:36 AM
The Little Guy one of the few making any sense here. People just want to make knee jerk rants and not be informed.

Does anyone care about track takeout? NYRA has reduced theirs over the years- despite screams from Albany and the OTB's. Much of the venom against NYRA is a direct result of reduced takeout.

Does anyone care about quality racing? It wasnt that long ago that NY was on the serious downturn and offering an inferior product to others.

Almost all of this stuff is about slots. The politicians arent stupid. They realize what a cash cow they will be. So they hold up the Aqueduct VLT's while throwing up all these smoke screens. So an entitity they can control or at least greatly influence will take charge.

People can talk about the past and Kenny Noe all they want. Dont think thats really relevant to the discussion today. People need to look at NYRA's current management structure and decide for themselves whether they feel the current folks are the right ones for the future.

aaron
11-27-2006, 09:08 AM
Alysheba88-
If any entity could guarantee a reduction in take out,I'd automatically be for them.Unfortunately,that will probably not happen.I'm hoping for status quo.As for the quality of racing,you've got to be kidding.Other than the Graded Stake Races,the quality of racing in NY is probably not much better than anywhere else.On an average of 3-4 NY bred races and many Maiden Races each day.Saratoga other than the Stake races has become an extension of the Belmont meet.
This is the reality of year round racing.They want full fields and this is the type of races that can fill.Is this bad ? Not necessarily,but the quality of racing arguement is the figment of someone's imagination.

alysheba88
11-27-2006, 09:19 AM
Alysheba88-
If any entity could guarantee a reduction in take out,I'd automatically be for them.Unfortunately,that will probably not happen.I'm hoping for status quo.As for the quality of racing,you've got to be kidding.Other than the Graded Stake Races,the quality of racing in NY is probably not much better than anywhere else.On an average of 3-4 NY bred races and many Maiden Races each day.Saratoga other than the Stake races has become an extension of the Belmont meet.
This is the reality of year round racing.They want full fields and this is the type of races that can fill.Is this bad ? Not necessarily,but the quality of racing arguement is the figment of someone's imagination.

NYRA has reduced takeout. Started with Barry Schwartz. I can guarantee you the next entitity will increase it.

As fas as quality of racing this year has not been the best, but if you go back five-six years ago NY was behind Southern Cal among others. Not the case now. Still offers the best product all year round. If you are going to say they don't you need to tell me who offers better.

aaron
11-27-2006, 09:35 AM
I am well aware that Barry Schwartz reduced the take out. I'm also aware that everytime takeout is reduced the handle will eventually increase.Horseplayers know this politicians don't.
As for the quality of racing,I basically play NY and I see the quality declining.I only compare the quality of racing in NY to NY racing of the past.This doesn't mean their are not bets to be found. I just find it kind of silly to use this as a selling point.Who are we trying to impress ? If you have done a study of racing all over and have come to the conclusion NY has the best product I'd be interested to see how you arrive at this conclusion.

alysheba88
11-27-2006, 09:46 AM
I am well aware that Barry Schwartz reduced the take out. I'm also aware that everytime takeout is reduced the handle will eventually increase.Horseplayers know this politicians don't.
As for the quality of racing,I basically play NY and I see the quality declining.I only compare the quality of racing in NY to NY racing of the past.This doesn't mean their are not bets to be found. I just find it kind of silly to use this as a selling point.Who are we trying to impress ? If you have done a study of racing all over and have come to the conclusion NY has the best product I'd be interested to see how you arrive at this conclusion.

Comparing it to the quality of the past? How far back are you comparing?

Are you making the same comparison with say Santa Anita of today and Santa Anita of 20 years ago?

Are you suggesting only NYRA racing is lower quality than the past? I dont think you are, but you need to realize you cant just compare one track to what it used to be- need to compare it to others during the same time period

I asked if you thought NYRA wasnt offering the best all year product who was and you didnt answer.

And yes in looking at the other year round circuits (Southern Fl, Southern Cal) I think NY is far superior. The Churchill-Keeneland circuits are definitely high quality but talking 12 months a year.

aaron
11-27-2006, 10:40 AM
Alyshebba88
Do you play all these other circuits on a regular basis all year round.If you do please explain why you feel NYRA's racing is so far superior on a year round basis.There are certainly meets at different times of the year that run oposite NYRA that are superior to NYRA's.As for NYRA overtaking California in terms of quality,don't you think that has more to do with the problems in California,than the increase of quality racing in NY?

aaron
11-27-2006, 10:52 AM
Alysheba88
Sorry I didn't answer your question as to has the best year around racing product.I play NYRA all year.I would estimate 85% of my bets are on NYRA races.I don't really think I'm qualified to judge year round races at other venues.Some of the Kentucky meets are better than some of the corresponding NYRA meets quality wise.Gulfstream, in the winter might be better,but from what I saw last year,that was a meet with a few high quality races and not much more.
The point,I'm trying to make is why is so much emphasis put on "Quality"that it actually becomes a point to argue about.As a bettor if you can find bets what does "Quality" matter and why should it be used as a selling point.What is the advantage of "Quality" racing,if in many of the major stake races you get 5 harse fields with 1/5 shots.

aaron
11-27-2006, 11:08 AM
TLG-
You are correct Paul Cornman was fired, but I think we're splitting hairs on this.The story,.as I remember it was that Paul went to Kenny Noe, and on behalf of some bettors who requested that they show the races on the tv's over the betting windows.Noe refushed to change back to the showing of the races over the betting windows.Paul thought there was no good reason for the change and quit when he felt he couldn't reason with Kenny Noe.If you have another version,please feel free to eloborate.
By the way the Noe policy remains in place as of today.

alysheba88
11-27-2006, 11:13 AM
aaron, I pretty much play NYRA tracks exclusively. Because that is what I know and I am interested in making money, not in action. I see what the other tracks are carding.

As far as quality I am talking more than just grade ones/class,etc. Also talking about bettability, takeout, wagering options. All tracks have small fields in their major stakes races- not something exlcusive to NYRA.

Saratoga is the best meet in the country.

The Belmont fall meet is a great one also.

Aqueduct is underrated- from a betting perspective.

aaron
11-27-2006, 11:49 AM
alysheba88
All I'm saying is that other players familar with other circuits probably feel the same way about their circuit.
Saratoga is the best meet of the year,but I know many players that would rather bet the inner track.So what does quality of racing mean ? We bet the circuits and races we are familar with and that are convenient for us to bet.I doubt I would bet NYRA races if they started at 8:00 PM.

alysheba88
11-27-2006, 11:58 AM
alysheba88
All I'm saying is that other players familar with other circuits probably feel the same way about their circuit.
Saratoga is the best meet of the year,but I know many players that would rather bet the inner track.So what does quality of racing mean ? We bet the circuits and races we are familar with and that are convenient for us to bet.I doubt I would bet NYRA races if they started at 8:00 PM.

Again I tried confirming what I meant in regard to quality.

I think horseplayers are fairer than you think. I know a lot of people who live out in Southern Cal who feel their product has gone downhill over the years.

I like going to Monmouth Park and have seen significant fluctaution in the product over the years.

I dont think players are incapable of being unbiased.

Seems like we have gotten way off track in any event (what the thread was initially about)

Indulto
11-28-2006, 10:06 PM
MGM Mirage Moving Ahead With Plans for Casino at Aqueduct by Tom Precious
http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=36565
… MGM officials notified a New York state government panel overseeing the franchise bidding process that it can have the video lottery terminal casino up and running by the "latter part'' of 2007.

The letter, intended to remind all parties in the franchise wars that MGM intends to be involved no matter who wins the rights to run racing at Aqueduct, Belmont and Saratoga, also said an effort is underway to have a federal bankruptcy court recognize its VLT contract.

… NYRA plans to ask the federal bankruptcy court in Manhattan to "seek confirmation'' of the casino contract with the company. MGM Mirage, keeping a watchful eye on developments for New York's Thoroughbred franchise, is preparing to move ahead with plans to construct a casino at Aqueduct Racetrack.

… "MGM Mirage has been and is ready, willing and able to move forward with the Aqueduct project,'' he added. He said the letter was to confirm to the committee "MGM Mirage's expectation that the winning bidder will abide by the terms of the RFP (request for proposal) and respect MGM Mirage's rights under the VLT Aqueduct agreements.''Even if the State were to uphold MGM's "rights" under Excelsior management, what would happen at the end of their five-year contract considering the new franchise will be awarded for twenty?

Indulto
12-01-2006, 08:29 PM
New York City backs merger of OTB, NYRA By Matt Hegarty Daily Racing Form
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/news/story?id=2682908 (http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/news/story?id=2682908)

The City of New York would support a merger between its New York City Off Track Betting Corporation, the largest bet-taker in the U.S., and the three tracks operated by the New York Racing Association …

… OTB and city officials had never before stated that they supported an alliance between the two companies.

… in 2005, New York City OTB lost $8.2 million, on handle of over $1 billion. OTB has lost money over the past four years.

Indulto
12-06-2006, 06:15 PM
Bruno gave ``pork'' to firm connected to businessman in probe By MARK JOHNSON
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newyork/ny-bc-ny--bruno-lobbyist1206dec06,0,7312602.story?coll=ny-region-apnewyork (http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newyork/ny-bc-ny--bruno-lobbyist1206dec06,0,7312602.story?coll=ny-region-apnewyork)
ALBANY, N.Y. -- Senate Majority Leader Joseph Bruno directed $500,000 in state funding to a private company connected to a businessman being investigated for providing Bruno with free air travel, state records show.

The Empire State Development Corp. grant to Evident Technologies Inc., a private nanotechnology company based in Bruno's district, received the "pork-barrel" spending at Bruno's request. Initial funding for Evident came from an investment firm run by Jared Abbruzzese, according to a news report posted on the company's Web site.

Abbruzzese … is also part of Empire Racing Associates, one of several groups seeking the lucrative state franchise to operate thoroughbred racing in New York. Bruno, an avid horseman, has a say in which group will run racing in the state.

There are other connections between Bruno and Evident. One of the company's board members is Wayne Barr Jr., also a founding member of Abbruzzese's TechOne Capital Group, according to Evident's Web site. Bruno appointed Barr to the New York Racing Association's board, which currently has the state racing franchise. Barr resigned in May.

PaceAdvantage
12-06-2006, 10:44 PM
It's amazing little was made (at the time) of Bruno's son working as a lobbyist for Magna Corp. early on in this whole NYRA debacle....

Now other possible conflicts of interest are rearing their ugly heads. What a shocker! :eek: :rolleyes:

the little guy
12-07-2006, 11:56 AM
One of the biggest problems is that save Steve Crist nobody in the NY area RACING media has given this entire thing any coverage ( why is beyond me ). Thus, the local papers, the News, The Post and the NY Times, had little to say about the issue. Now, however, their " real " writers have seen this is an interesting story, most likely because of the Steinbrenner/Yankees link to Excelsior and the " recomendation ". Thus, as these are capable reporters, they have had no trouble uncovering a whole host of juicy stories intertwined in this sordid tale.

Why let a good story interfere with playing the early double or late Pick-4.

point given
12-07-2006, 12:29 PM
Here is another column on the subject which you may find of interest from the Albany Times Union.

For-profit company gets aid
Firm with ties to Bruno received unusual grants

http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=542265&category=&BCCode=&newsdate=12/6/2006

saratoga guy
12-07-2006, 04:42 PM
One of the biggest problems is that save Steve Crist nobody in the NY area RACING media has given this entire thing any coverage ( why is beyond me ).

I've been mystified for months now that virtually no one out there has pursued the story of the Lottery "stonewalling" the OK for slots at AQU.

With that decision costing the state millions -- that's a story that goes beyond horse-racing.

(A nod to Mark Mulholland of upstate TV station WNYT for taking a look at this a couple of months ago and getting an unacceptable -- from a taxpayer's standpoint -- "no comment" from a Lottery rep he ran down in front of their offices, after they wouldn't return his calls.

But otherwise, virtually nothing on the topic from the NY media.)

PlanB
12-07-2006, 05:30 PM
My latest thoughts on this NYRA debacle:
#1, I was offering 15:1 against NYRA, now my latest offer is 8:1.
#2, EVERYTHING awaits Eliot Spitzer.
#3, It's shoddy that no newspaper hasn't picked up the revenue loss to NY
with this long-overdue slot situation. Something's afoot Dr Watson.
#4, The OTB-NYRA merger is what reduced my offer to 8:1. Then the State
of NY would get very serious with wagering bucks.
$5, Eliot Spitzer's father owns (a) extensive real estate in NY PLUS (b) A large,
large horse farm in NY. ummm, I'm not sure what that means but I include
that for the paranoid among us.
#6, MAGNA is a total non-contender.
#7, It's a slug fest between NYRA & Excelsior. ps, isn't that Excelsior group
such a grand name?

Indulto
12-07-2006, 06:55 PM
… It's shoddy that no newspaper hasn't picked up the revenue loss to NY with this long-overdue slot situation. Something's afoot Dr Watson.PB,
I’d have referenced Dr Scholl there, myself. ;)

There have been sporadic editorials, but not simultaneously or repetitively. Most published references have been quotes by NYRA representatives and supporters. And then we had the Kerry-esque situation where (former?) NY State Comptroller, Hevesi -- after scalding NYRA for its scandalous supervisory skill deficiencies -- reversed his sentiments to eventually make the strongest public statement regarding the overdue slots, only to be subsequently silenced by scandalous spending of his own. MAGNA is a total non-contender.

… It's a slug fest between NYRA & Excelsior. ps, isn't that Excelsior group such a grand name? IMO Empire might still have a shot if they jettisoned MAGNA and Churchill to separate themselves from anti-Stronach sentiment, MEC financial statements, and CDI corporate staff slicing.

They should also squelch the spin every time Perlee opens his mouth. Excelsior's strength seems to be the relative silence over its political relationships. :D

May I propose a new slogan for NYRA supporters: EXCORIATE EXCELSIOR. :lol:

PlanB
12-07-2006, 07:07 PM
Wow, I looked it up & that's the perfect word: DENOUNCE EXCELSIOR? yeah, let's give the real New Yorkahh, NYRA, another shot? Giving the franchise to
EXCELSIOR is akin to OutSourcing horseracing. NO F'N WAY.

Murph
12-08-2006, 08:22 AM
http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=36647
Empire Racing Willing to Increase Funds to Secure Franchise
by Tom Precious
Date Posted: 12/6/2006 3:42:25 PM
Last Updated: 12/7/2006 12:05:08 PM

"Empire Racing Associates said it is willing to put more money on the table for the state of New York in order to win the franchise to run racing over the next 20 years at Aqueduct, Belmont, and Saratoga racetracks."

This is an interesting debate and I hope that whatever happens, NY racing gets what it deserves. It looks like there is so much complicated in-fighting over every aspect of the new award that it will never be settled to anyones satisfaction.

The chance of Empire landing the bid are summed up nicely in the last paragraph of this article.

"State officials involved in the selection process, though, have voiced concerns about the many Empire stakeholders from around the United States and Canada that could dilute the influence of New York racing. None of the Empire partners hold more than a six percent stake in the group, which Perlee said was done to ensure no one entity dominated the organization."

The article mentions a comment that the Excelsior bid is the most favorable for all involved, including the bettors. Do the thread posters think that this is true for the best interest of horse players as well as the best overall for the longterm health of NY racing?

Tough questions.

Murph

aaron
12-08-2006, 09:14 AM
I haven't read any proposal that is interested in providing anything that would be favorable to the bettors,or anyone who attends the track.If someone has seen any proposal favorable to the bettors,please post it.

Bruddah
12-08-2006, 09:27 AM
are nothing more than the fodder that feeds the grist mill. Certainly, after all of the prior treatment received by bettors, from the racing industry, why should it change? Their methods/strategy for handling the bettors has always been "Shut Up and Put Up". :bang:

aaron
12-08-2006, 09:56 AM
Excelisor,the article says is the most favorable bid,including the bettors.What exactly do they in tend to do for the bettor ?

garyoz
12-08-2006, 10:12 AM
Excelisor,the article says is the most favorable bid,including the bettors.What exactly do they in tend to do for the bettor ?

It is only what they have done and will do for the crook Spitzer. In unrelated to racing, but related to his character, Wall Street Journal has another editorial on what a shake-down artist and sleaze Spitzer is: (the link is from their free opinion journal site)

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB116554203033544168.html?mod=opinion&ojcontent=otep

kenwoodallpromos
12-08-2006, 11:36 AM
"could dilute the influence of New York racing".
Are they sure they just do not want to dilute the influence of NY cronyism?

Indulto
12-08-2006, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by Murph
Desperate Plea or Crafty Ploy?

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=36647 (http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=36647)

… This is an interesting debate and I hope that whatever happens, NY racing gets what it deserves. It looks like there is so much complicated in-fighting over every aspect of the new award that it will never be settled to anyones satisfaction.

The chance of Empire landing the bid are summed up nicely in the last paragraph of this article.

"State officials involved in the selection process, though, have voiced concerns about the many Empire stakeholders from around the United States and Canada that could dilute the influence of New York racing. None of the Empire partners hold more than a six percent stake in the group, which Perlee said was done to ensure no one entity dominated the organization."

The article mentions a comment that the Excelsior bid is the most favorable for all involved, including the bettors. Do the thread posters think that this is true for the best interest of horse players as well as the best overall for the longterm health of NY racing?

Tough questions.

MurphMurph,
What exactly does NY racing deserve?

Also, is the following the mentioned comment to which you referred?Officials with Excelsior on Dec. 7 criticized Empire for floating the idea of changing its bid offer. "Instead of accepting this decision, Empire is now attempting to undermine the Committee's work by asking for a "do-over" in the hopes that it can make its bid as strong as Excelsior's,'' Excelsior spokesman Howard Wolfson said of decision last month recommending Excelsior take over the franchise.

"Unfortunately for Empire, once the race is over, it can not be re-run, and Excelsior was the clear winner at the finish line. Our package is the best one for fans, horsemen, and taxpayers, and no amount of rhetoric after the fact from Empire will change that,'' Wolfson added.If indeed it is, it’s a self-serving comment by an Excelsior spokesman.

I’m nit–picking here because I’ve been trying to determine where the various industry press come down on this issue. DRF is clearly pro-NYRA. Blood Horse seems anti-NYRA and possibly pro-Excelsior (anti-Empire?). Thoroughbred Times seems neutral although Paul Post writes for the Saratogian as well and even if he personally doesn’t shade toward NYRA, he quotes a lot of upstate New Yorkers who do. Paul Moran of Newsday has made several anti-NYRA statements as has the NY Post. The Albany Times Union also appears to be anti-NYRA. Anybody out there read thingt differently?

Here’s a partial checklist I'd like to see added to those of the Governor and the Legislature to be answered as follows: 3 – Most likely, 2 – Equally likely, 1- Least Likely

0) Will provide a pro-active fan support function to continuosly monitor fan satisfaction and keep fans and management abreast of outstanding issues.

1) Will support an independent thoroughbred racing authority?
-- Will support uniform medication policies, enforcement, and penalties?
-- Will support stakes scheduling to maximize fan interest nationwide?
-- Will support wager monitoring by independent authority?

2) Will not permit CRW access to pools?

3) Will reduce effective takeout the most for all players?

4) Will reduce effective takeout for Whales/Professionals only?

5) Will reduce minimum wager levels?

6) Will improve in-home race viewing?

7) Will adopt Trakus?

8) Will maximze graded stakes field sizes?

9) Will retain Grade I handicaps?
--Will assign meaningful high weights and differentials?


10) Will support multiple-track wagers?

11) Will card fewer races restricted to state-breds?.

12) Will provide amenities affordable by all fans in attendance?
-- Will provide adequate low-cost, comfortable desk/table seating?
-- Will provide large monitors and wireless audio?
-- Will provide low-cost, convenient parking and/or TRAMS?
-- Food concessions will serve fair–priced, healthy food and snacks?;)

saratoga guy
12-09-2006, 12:30 AM
You have an interesting list of "goals" for the next franchise holder Indulto. But like the ambitious programs Empire has outlined over the past week or so -- my question is, once the franchise is awarded and we're a year down the road and the promises haven't been implemented -- what's the punishment?

What makes a franchise holder stick to their promises?

kenwoodallpromos
12-09-2006, 12:46 AM
I have not been around racing forever, but I do not understand #4, and the rest sound like you are asking them tailor make racing your custom specs with no hope of profit for the fanchisee (TRAMS?).

the little guy
12-09-2006, 12:57 AM
You have an interesting list of "goals" for the next franchise holder Indulto. But like the ambitious programs Empire has outlined over the past week or so -- my question is, once the franchise is awarded and we're a year down the road and the promises haven't been implemented -- what's the punishment?

What makes a franchise holder stick to their promises?

Haven't you figured out by now that Indulto feels he is the final sayso and that anyone and everyone is bound by some cosmic force to answer to him...and only him? Even though he does absolutely nothing to support NY racing, and basically racing everywhere, and only really joins internet sites to visit their " off topic " areas, he feels he is qualified to be the final word and all must ultimately answer to him.

Indulto
12-09-2006, 04:51 AM
You have an interesting list of "goals" for the next franchise holder Indulto. But like the ambitious programs Empire has outlined over the past week or so -- my question is, once the franchise is awarded and we're a year down the road and the promises haven't been implemented -- what's the punishment?

What makes a franchise holder stick to their promises?SG,
What did the RFP and/or Excelsior propose in the way of oversight at Saratoga to ensure they stick to their promises?

Of course this award process is really more about issues like political patronage, slots revenue, pension funds, horsemen accounts, backstretch workers, and hay futures, but I'd still like to know if these guys can actually relate to their customers well enough to keep the game alive.

It's the items on that list that have kept me, and the people with whom I've shared my racing experience, interested for more than 40 years. As I’ve watched racing steadily decline since Spectacular Bid raced, I’ve become convinced that most track operators are clueless as to what non-professional enthusiasts like myself are about.

The politicians, lawyers, and accountants will have to set up the new franchise commitments, milestones, monitoring, and penalties. We can only speculate as to what would happen if either of the two “Es” had to deal with the same interference and lack of cooperation from the State as NYRA has.

One low-risk approach Spitzer could take would be to grant NYRA an extension for 5 years (the length of the MGM contract). If the slots installation, merger with OTBs, and revisions to laws regarding capital improvements funding still aren’t working according to plan, then give control over to his choice of new management to operate the franchise until it is up for renewal again. If he were to go ahead with a 20-year award to an inexperienced management group, what options would he have then for turning things around?

To what extent can the existing horse owners be counted on to support a new franchise holder? What happens if they decide to race elsewhere? Are there new owners waiting to compete in NY and what quality of horses would they bring?

Indulto
12-09-2006, 05:15 AM
I have not been around racing forever, but I do not understand #4, and the rest sound like you are asking them tailor make racing your custom specs with no hope of profit for the fanchisee (TRAMS?).KW,
I was referring to the advantage provided by rebates based on volume in 4).

Those weren't specs, but rather a guide to determining whether there was any understanding of the concerns of -- and any committment to -- the racing fan.

It can be a long walk from available parking in the heat on high attendance days for older fans who still make up a substantial portion of on-track attendendance.

Indulto
12-09-2006, 07:53 AM
Haven't you figured out by now that Indulto feels he is the final sayso and that anyone and everyone is bound by some cosmic force to answer to him...and only him?When one posts publicly one automatically shares one’s thoughts with whomever happens to read them. The idea is to stimulate responses from multiple sources. Answer one, answer all. If you don't like being questioned, post privately.Even though he does absolutely nothing to support NY racing, and basically racing everywhere, …This is one time you'll have to explain yourself, particularly what you mean by support. I play NYRA simulcasts most every graded stakes weekend. I’ve viewed and wagered on every Breeder’s Cup and have only missed a handful of Triple Crown races in over 40 years. I attended all three NYRA tracks frequently prior to moving.… and only really joins internet sites to visit their " off topic " areas, he feels he is qualified to be the final word and all must ultimately answer to him.I agree that I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things, and I’m not hesitant about expressing them. I believe the same applies to you. I’m as willing to challenge anybody about anything as you are, and as aggressively as you do.

Apparently you’ve decided to become the new Luke Boardstalker. Unlike some, I use the same pseudonym wherever I go. I get the feeling you’re actually planning to elaborate this time. Just don’t go hiding behind anybody’s apron strings afterwards.

the little guy
12-09-2006, 10:52 AM
This is one time you'll have to explain yourself, particularly what you mean by support. I play NYRA simulcasts most every graded stakes weekend. I’ve viewed and wagered on every Breeder’s Cup and have only missed a handful of Triple Crown races in over 40 years. I attended all three NYRA tracks frequently prior to moving.

Apparently you’ve decided to become the new Luke Boardstalker. Unlike some, I use the same pseudonym wherever I go. I get the feeling you’re actually planning to elaborate this time. Just don’t go hiding behind anybody’s apron strings afterwards.

On the first part, very recently you claimed somewhere else not to know that the Remsen had been a 1 1/8 mile race...even though the last THIRTY FOUR runnings of the race have been at that distance. And furthermore you claimed not to have set foot in a NY track during that period. That information is contradictory to your above comments. I find it hard to believe you " play NYRA simulcasts most every graded stakes weekend " and somehow also missed the Remsen distance switch. Or, perhaps you would like us to believe you have been confused about the distance of the Aqueduct oval all these years.

On the other paragraph.....LMFAO!!!!!!!! That is just precious! Coincidentally, another maniac from the DRF Board recently started posting here and leveled that exact same ludicrous " charge " against me. Gee, I wonder where you too seemed to come up with that laughable lie. For a guy who seems to be after facts you had no problem being unwittingly duped into believing the rantings of an unstable poster. You might want to check those facts as carefully as you dog the facts around here.

Indulto
12-09-2006, 04:26 PM
With PA's tolerance, I will be responding to tlg later in a different thread. Hopefully this valuable thread will not be closed as I look forward to further input from SG.

Murph
12-09-2006, 06:12 PM
Murph, What exactly does NY racing deserve?

Also, is the following the mentioned comment to which you referred?If indeed it is, it’s a self-serving comment by an Excelsior spokesman.
What exactly does NY racing deserve?
Well that would depend on who you ask. :D LOL

I was referring to Mr Wolfsons remarks only to beg the question. I would hope that slots will will not detract from the long term interests of thoroughbred racing.

One issue that is very clear is that outside interests are not welcome to invest in any aspect to gain influence into thoroughbred racing. No matter which NY group gets the bid, it will likely be the same key players running things.

Only time will tell if it is for the better or worse. I admire the passionate debate among the posters who have a much greater intrest in this issue than I.

Murph

saratoga guy
12-09-2006, 07:43 PM
With PA's tolerance, I will be responding to tlg later in a different thread. Hopefully this valuable thread will not be closed as I look forward to further input from SG.

I don't particularly have anymore to offer. My main concern is what I stated earlier -- there is no mechanism that I know of that will guarantee bidders uphold their "promises".

As such, I'd recommend simply looking at what they've done already.

Empire partners Magna and Churchill have track records that can be scrutinized. Have they done anything "above and beyond" for racing fans?

Excelsior principle Swindal is a major player with the Yankees organization. Are Yankees fans treated better in any ways than fans of other MLB teams?

These groups are making lofty promises -- but I don't see any track records to make me feel good about buying into those promises.

Indulto
12-17-2006, 05:24 PM
Spitzer needs to act soon on state's racingBy PAUL POST
http://www.saratogian.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17601230&BRD=1169&PAG=461&dept_id=17708&rfi=6 (http://www.saratogian.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17601230&BRD=1169&PAG=461&dept_id=17708&rfi=6)

… The state hasn't approved video lottery terminals at Aqueduct because of concerns about New York Racing Association's future operations, Gov. George E. Pataki said Friday. Pataki is among the defendants named in a lawsuit that NYRA filed Wednesday, charging that state officials deliberately drove the firm into bankruptcy by refusing to approval VLTs.

… There were a lot of legal issues outstanding at the end, one of which was whether NYRA in fact had the ability to move forward appropriately," Pataki said …

… "My internal counsel's office took a good look at the documents and had some changes that they felt were necessary that ultimately weren't agreed to. Until they agreed that it was an appropriate deal, I certainly wasn't going to sign it."

… the state Lottery Division, reportedly at Pataki's direction, has refused to approve the deal. Lottery did approve the agreement last Dec. 30, but in April NYRA and MGM asked to amend the contract with "two important technical amendments."

NYRA contends that Lottery intentionally stalled the process by refusing to even comment on the amendments until July, three months later. At that time, Lottery requested certain language changes, but had no problem with the amendments' substance …

… The Oversight Board is charged with overseeing NYRA's business operations. Pataki said, "The lawyers just never were comfortable with the actual agreement that NYRA had submitted. So until we had a legal document that everybody, particularly my counsel's office, felt protected the taxpayers and people of the state, it wasn't in the interests of the people (to approve it)."

… Pataki was non-committal when asked about the panel's selection.

"We'll wait and see what the legislature determines," he said. "The Lottery approved the deal on Dec. 30, 2005.

alysheba88
12-18-2006, 08:00 AM
I am glad to see NYRA finally fighting back here.

Indulto
12-19-2006, 03:16 PM
Baseball and Casinos Don’t Mix, or Do They?By MURRAY CHASS
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/19/sports/baseball/19chass.html?em&ex=1166677200&en=fe04bf582edae360&ei=5087%0A (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/19/sports/baseball/19chass.html?em&ex=1166677200&en=fe04bf582edae360&ei=5087%0A)

… This case is about baseball and slot machines, about Steve Swindal and Bob Nutting. Swindal is one of two managing general partners of the Yankees. Nutting is chairman of the board of the Pittsburgh Pirates. Both have other business interests, and that’s where the slot machines come in.

… Baseball owners have long owned racehorses, at least since John Galbreath in the 1940s. No owner is believed to have owned a racetrack. Certainly no owner has owned a track with slot machines on the premises. But that’s what Excelsior plans to do.

… Asked if he would be surprised if Selig sanctioned Swindal’s venture, Nutting said: “I don’t have any knowledge of how those deals would be structured. I don’t know enough to comment.”

“The regulations are pretty clear,” he added. “Gaming interest is very broadly defined.”

Swindal, on the other hand, said, “I would be surprised” if Selig didn’t let him go forward with the Excelsior enterprise.

What would be surprising is if Selig said yes to Swindal after Nutting assumed the commissioner would say no to him.

alysheba88
12-20-2006, 11:38 AM
Now Bruno being investigated. About time.

The corruption in Albany is disgraceful. We are just seeing the tip of the iceberg.

You will see more in the future and how that corruption came into play with the NY racing franchise

alysheba88
12-20-2006, 05:31 PM
Scandalous

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/481716p-405327c.html

PlanB
12-20-2006, 05:39 PM
I'm no Bruno fan, but maybe it's nothing. The rules are confusing about outside work, friendships, gifts, etc. Some are cheats no doubt but powerful people tend to socialize with other powerful people, and sometimes the lines are not clear. The guy I think is A+ disgraceful is Pataki for being gov for ~200 years and doing very little good.

alysheba88
12-20-2006, 05:59 PM
The whole thing has been orchestrated from day one. Its all about slot revenue. In my opinion NYRA was deliberately starved of the slot revenue by the politicians and lobbyists, and that was the plan for over a year. If you look at every major decision it fits.

the little guy
12-20-2006, 06:00 PM
I am glad that Murray Chass wrote that piece but I believe he missed a few other examples. There was one just a couple of years ago and, and perhaps I'm wrong about this, I think Steinbrenner had to divest himself of his interests in Tampa Bay Downs a number of years ago.

MLB has recently made a deal with the Lottery ( I guess on a State level though I'm not sure the details ) so I believe some of the advertising restrictions have been lifted at the ballparks and on MLB related networks. However, no casino advertising is allowed.

I enjoyed the contrast, in the article, between Swindell's comments and Selig's.

samyn on the green
12-20-2006, 09:21 PM
Spitzer is flexing his media muscle. Spitzer is killing two birds with one stone by exposing Bruno and it is a bold move in state politics to expose the powerful Bruno. Spitzer is going the extra mile for his client Excelsior and while removing a major rival in state politics in all future skemes, scams and deals. After Bruno has been exposed Spitzer will have Carte Blanche to pull off whatever deal he needs to pull off , extort whomever and maximize profits while in the goveners office with little interference.



Bruno has been cutting deals for decades. His corruption was never a problem and was consitantly ignored by the mainstream media time after time. Of course the clueless masses have no say in these matters, nor are they bright enough to read between the lines so the corruption continued unabated. Now with Spitzer in charge of the media he is laying down his law. If you do not go with Spitzer and support his cronies you will be crushed and whatever corruption was paying your bills will now be part of Spitzers corruption empire.

Another example of Spitzer taking out a rival is, Hevasi. Hevasi is a longtime politician from Queens who had very little problems with media profile. When Hevasi was bashing NYRA for years going along with the program there was no problems with Hevasi. As soon as Hevasi got behind NYRA and went against the Spitzer crusade to open up the slots for Excelsior, the limo for Mom story broke and Hevai's reputation was shattered. This is the power of Spitzer and his media connections. You may be making money and doing corrupt things but you are protected as long as you go with the Spitzer. As soon as you break away from Spitzer the media and Spitzer will bury you.

Spitzer just fried a big fish in Bruno who is respected and feared for his ability to get business done in NY state. Now with Bruno out of the way the other fish will be scared after this media take down. Spitzer has laid down the law and you support Excelsior or else his buddies in TV and at the New York Times will expose you. This is how politics gets done and this is how your tax money is molested.

In response to NYRA's suit against NY State, there was even a story that broke last week that hinted at Pataki's corruption and how he has drained the NY coffers of $400 million dollars in his attempt to secure the Aqueduct slots for his people and not NYRA while dening the state that revenue. What just blows my mind is when you juxtapose the beleaguered, corrupt NYRA, which is suspected of employing a dozen mutual clerks arranging 10%ers, the non-exsistant Baeza weight scandal and a waiter taking tips for taples to the $400 million corruption of people like Pataki and Spitzer and you see how clueless the masses are on this issue. The media purposely mis-informs and the public is too dumb to know the difference.

Indulto
12-21-2006, 03:58 AM
... Another example of Spitzer taking out a rival is, Hevasi. Hevasi is a longtime politician from Queens who had very little problems with media profile. When Hevasi was bashing NYRA for years going along with the program there was no problems with Hevasi. As soon as Hevasi got behind NYRA and went against the Spitzer crusade to open up the slots for Excelsior, the limo for Mom story broke and Hevai's reputation was shattered. This is the power of Spitzer and his media connections. You may be making money and doing corrupt things but you are protected as long as you go with the Spitzer. As soon as you break away from Spitzer the media and Spitzer will bury you.

... In response to NYRA's suit against NY State, there was even a story that broke last week that hinted at Pataki's corruption and how he has drained the NY coffers of $400 million dollars in his attempt to secure the Aqueduct slots for his people and not NYRA while dening the state that revenue. What just blows my mind is when you juxtapose the beleaguered, corrupt NYRA, which is suspected of employing a dozen mutual clerks arranging 10%ers, the non-exsistant Baeza weight scandal and a waiter taking tips for taples to the $400 million corruption of people like Pataki and Spitzer and you see how clueless the masses are on this issue. The media purposely mis-informs and the public is too dumb to know the difference.SOTG,
Can you share any references regarding the bolded portions?

I would have thought Pataki would have been more upset with Hevesi's remarks about the delayed VLTs than Spitzer.

alysheba88
12-21-2006, 07:31 AM
Good post Samyn. I have been saying from day one this is all politics and all about VLT's. For over a year. And yet the sheeple followed along and jumped when the media said jump. Fell for all the doubletalk and political spin.

VLT's were deliberately held up. Deliberately. No other way to look at it. Because if they were up now, as they should be, the case for NYRA would be very very strong and they would be like 1-10 to keep the NY racing franchise.

All the other stories over the last year have been orchestrated from the powers that be. And again the sheeple follow and lap it up. Doesnt matter that some of the stuff isnt true or is really insignificant, just the number of them will get people saying "what another problem with NYRA". And so on. Its a remarkable example of manipulation and gullability.

PlanB
12-21-2006, 08:33 AM
"I would have thought Pataki would have been more upset with Hevesi's remarks about the delayed VLTs than Spitzer." Yeah, unless you are a seasoned pol with malice always front & center. Pataki KNOWS Hevesi is week-old fish ready for the dumpster; so let Spitzer dispose of his carcass. SOTG, great post. Most citizens just never comprehend sums of money larger than a chauffeur's pay. Even then I hear, "A driver makes $80k a year." By definition, MOST people are average, which includes a naviete about how really criminal most pols are.

Indulto
12-21-2006, 01:26 PM
Good post Samyn. I have been saying from day one this is all politics and all about VLT's. For over a year. And yet the sheeple followed along and jumped when the media said jump. Fell for all the doubletalk and political spin.

VLT's were deliberately held up. Deliberately. No other way to look at it. Because if they were up now, as they should be, the case for NYRA would be very very strong and they would be like 1-10 to keep the NY racing franchise.

All the other stories over the last year have been orchestrated from the powers that be. And again the sheeple follow and lap it up. Doesnt matter that some of the stuff isnt true or is really insignificant, just the number of them will get people saying "what another problem with NYRA". And so on. Its a remarkable example of manipulation and gullability.A8,
I don't think any poster in this thread disagrees with the bolded portions. My question is: "Who really did what to whom?" Hopefully the lawsuit will get us some answers.

Source: Hevesi to resign The Associated Press
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/state/ny-stheve1222,0,5160092.story?coll=ny-main-bigpix

Indulto
12-21-2006, 07:14 PM
If Hevesi Steps Down, Who Will Replace Him?
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/local_story_355172149.html (http://wcbstv.com/topstories/local_story_355172149.html)

... Hevesi was once a close ally who briefly campaigned with Spitzer before the scandal broke. But now Hevesi's case is part of the problem that Spitzer has been saying needs to be addressed urgently in Albany. On Thursday, Spitzer spoke of a "aura of unseemliness about too much of what goes on Albany." Spitzer won't comment on Hevesi or any replacement. But Democrats say he has it made it clear he wants an independent replacement, one with clear fiscal experience and a spotless ethical record and -- most likely -- from outside Albany.

Indulto
12-22-2006, 04:45 PM
Ties Run Deep Between Bruno and an Investor By MIKE McINTIRE
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/16/nyregion/16bruno.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&ei=5094&en=7915cb1d5afdc202&hp&ex=1166245200&partner=homepage (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/16/nyregion/16bruno.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&ei=5094&en=7915cb1d5afdc202&hp&ex=1166245200&partner=homepage)

… A month later, Mr. Abbruzzese and others founded Friends of New York Racing. The group registered as a lobbying entity, and eventually produced a report contending that the state’s three thoroughbred racetracks, operated since 1955 by the nonprofit New York Racing Association, should be contracted to a private commercial enterprise.

… Throughout 2005, as Mr. Bruno continued to hold his Tejas shares, he and Mr. Abbruzzese met often, according to records filed in State Supreme Court in Albany in connection with the lobbying inquiry. The documents include testimony from the former director of Friends of New York Racing, who said Mr. Abbruzzese invited him to chat with Mr. Bruno about the state racing franchise “during an informal visit by the senator to Mr. Abbruzzese’s home” in the spring of 2005. The former director, Timothy Smith, later referred to the meeting in a memorandum to the group’s board, saying it had been arranged by Mr. Bruno’s “close friend” Mr. Abbruzzese.

Friends of New York Racing disbanded this year, and many of its members, including Mr. Abbruzzese, re-emerged as investors in a new group, Empire Racing Associates, one of the three competing to operate the state’s horse racing system.New York State Comptroller Expected to Resign By MICHAEL COOPER
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/22/nyregion/22hevesi.html?hp&ex=1166850000&en=7310ec10d98daf5d&ei=5094&partner=homepage (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/22/nyregion/22hevesi.html?hp&ex=1166850000&en=7310ec10d98daf5d&ei=5094&partner=homepage)

… Mr. Spitzer declined to comment on the Hevesi case. But when he was asked on Thursday about the culture of Albany — where, in addition to Mr. Hevesi’s legal troubles, a Democratic State Senator, Efrain González Jr. of the Bronx, was indicted last week, and Senator Joseph L. Bruno, the Republican leader, announced that his business interests were the subject of a federal inquiry — he called changing it a top priority.

“There is certainly a sense right now that there is an aura of unseemliness about too much of what goes on in Albany,” Mr. Spitzer said at a news conference in Manhattan. “And one of the first and essential mandates that I believe this administration has is to address that, and to say that we are starting fresh with new leadership, new individuals who speak to a core of dedication to doing things in a way that speaks to public purpose, public values, public good and not private enrichment.”Empire Racing considers going public By: PAUL POST
http://www.saratogian.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17624843&BRD=1169&PAG=461&dept_id=17708&rfi=6 (http://www.saratogian.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17624843&BRD=1169&PAG=461&dept_id=17708&rfi=6)

SARATOGA SPRINGS - Going public and keeping a 36-day Saratoga Race Course meet are high priorities for Empire Racing Associates, CEO Jeff Perlee said Thursday.

… Perlee envisions upstate New York as a racing mecca, comparable to the Lexington, Ky. area, with Saratoga Springs as the hub. He said that could be accomplished without extending the 36-day meet. "You don't want to mess too much with what works, and there's a lot that can be done in other areas to stimulate economic growth in this place relative to the franchise without tinkering with the racing calendar," he said.

… "You have to have a focus on racing. "We can't have a franchise operator that would understand Saratoga and its racing-only operations as an afterthought."Is going public designed to buy the Bruno/Albany culture-connected Abbruzzese out of Empire should they actually be awarded the franchise?

With no break in stride as the target switched form NYRA to Excelsior, the spin still emanates as Perlee grates.;)

Indulto
12-27-2006, 02:47 AM
Albany Bipartisanship -- New York Sun Editorial
http://www.nysun.com/article/45737 (http://www.nysun.com/article/45737)

... Yesterday, Empire announced that Mr. Abbruzzese had sold his interest in Empire back to the company.

… By our lights, the best move for the state in respect of Aqueduct, Belmont Park, and Saratoga is not to rent them out but to completely privatize them by selling them outright.Imagine the decision was to be made by King Solomon rather than Gov. Spitzer. He'd probably say cut the baby into thirds -- SAR to NYRA, BEL to Empire, and AQU to Excelsior. Do you think any of these "muthas" would ever gave up their claim in order to preserve the whole?

alysheba88
12-27-2006, 09:21 AM
To me the best solution is to extend NYRA for one more year and then restart the bidding process all over again. The prior process was so rigged and corrupt- no good can come from it.

alysheba88
12-27-2006, 10:45 AM
Breaking it up into thirds would be the worst possible solution in my opinion. Would be no solution at all. Would be a step backwards. What would happen with OTB then?

Problem has always been the conflict of interest with NYRA and OTB. Adding to that by splitting up the racing interests would be a disaster.

alysheba88
12-27-2006, 10:51 AM
Great article from Crist about this

http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=81305&subs=0&arc=1

Indulto
12-27-2006, 03:43 PM
Great article from Crist about this

http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=81305&subs=0&arc=1
A8,
Fortunately the DRF is a more reasonable source than the apparently anti-Spitzer “New York Sun. Ever since I first read it I’ve been looking for another news source to expand on the bolded portion of the Crist article excerpt below:…The timing of NYRA's complaint coincided with both Pataki's final days in office and the outgoing governor's last-ditch attempt to try to award the franchise to Excelsior at a special one-day legislative session last week. That idea was roundly rejected, officially dumping the entire franchise mess, as has been long expected, into the hands of the incoming governor, Eliot Spitzer, who has his own checkered history with both NYRA and Excelsior.Breaking it up into thirds would be the worst possible solution in my opinion. Would be no solution at all. Would be a step backwards. What would happen with OTB then?

Problem has always been the conflict of interest with NYRA and OTB. Adding to that by splitting up the racing interests would be a disaster.My King Solomon analogy was intended as a sarcastic commentary on the Sun’s perspective which I thought implied that Excelsior was the Spitzer/Democrat preference and Empire the Bruno/Republican preference. Since it engaged you, it's worth speculating as to what might happen if the State were to grant 5-year franches for each track separately, with the provison that any slots revenue would still fuel purses for all three.

At least SAR would be preserved, and the competition among all could substantiate the various claims and promises from each. Maybe there IS a way for BEL to do better without slots. Maybe AQU with slots CAN be different from GP and PHA. Maybe the horseplayer would be treated better at all three venues.

OTB needs to be consolidated and reorganized no matter what to eliminate redundancy and become profitable. Can they do so independently of any single track? I don't know, but I think all interstate and in-home wagering should be done under Federal regulation. Also, the TVG/ExpressBet/YouBet fiasco in California should not be allowed to continue or be repeated elsewhere.

Indulto
12-28-2006, 12:49 AM
Bidder for NY racing franchise touts $1.8 billion investment By MICHAEL GORMLEY
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newyork/ny-bc-ny--racingfranchise1227dec27,0,4634829.story?coll=ny-region-apnewyork (http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newyork/ny-bc-ny--racingfranchise1227dec27,0,4634829.story?coll=ny-region-apnewyork)

… Capital Play's proposal includes some unconventional ideas. The group said it would eventually allow off-track betting facilities to handle all wagering on and off tracks, a cost-saving move that could end the longtime conflict between OTBs and tracks. The proposal also calls for hotels at Belmont and Aqueduct; targeting younger bettors; building corporate boxes as in sports arenas; installing synthetic tracks that are considered safer for horses; investing $225 million at Aqueduct and $225 million at Belmont; attracting corporate sponsors for every race; and giving unused land around the New York City tracks back to the state for development.

… Excelsior did not guarantee annual payments to the state, but promised to pay at least $100 million up front and was the only competitor with a plan to pay more than $50 million in pension debt owed by NYRA. Now Capital Play says it will cover that debt, which it estimates at $110 million.

Excelsior's closest competitor, Empire Racing, proposed $100 million up front, with $7.5 million more annually for 20 years, including revenue from a proposed hotel at Aqueduct.The most encouraging aspect of this development is that this is turning out to be REAL bidding contest where each new bid incorporates an idea previously introduced by a competitor.

saratoga guy
12-28-2006, 08:11 AM
The most encouraging aspect of this development is that this is turning out to be REAL bidding contest where each new bid incorporates an idea previously introduced by a competitor.

Ultimately though, doesn't that perhaps show a lack of integrity from those bidders that are revising their bids?

Weren't they supposed to put their best bid forward in the first place?

alysheba88
12-28-2006, 10:50 AM
Looks like a rebid is a real possibility

http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?category=STATE&storyID=546025&BCCode=&newsdate=12/19/2006

Indulto
12-28-2006, 04:24 PM
Ultimately though, doesn't that perhaps show a lack of integrity from those bidders that are revising their bids?

Weren't they supposed to put their best bid forward in the first place?
Integrity? Oh, you mean what the RFP based 20% of the assignable points to each bid on? Given the integrity the State government and politicians have displayed so far toward both the NYRA and the taxpayers, the new governor will have to officially define that term, the standard for which he reportedly claimed each bidder should have met before their bid could even be considered.

Even before Bruno’s call for a re-bid, it was clear that the best bid wasn’t expected to be the first bid and may not be the final bid if not from an acceptable source. What the revised bids show is that the RFP – produced by committee, influenced by the “Friends” of Empire Racing, and evaluated without authority -- was unable to elicit optimal proposals.

And what’s with the hotels? Did the RFP mention lodging outside the backstretch? Maybe Disney would have bid if it did. Now that the process has become a circus, perhaps Barnum and Bailey will make an offer. :D

For whom will the bell toll, the ball bounce, and to the land belong in bankruptcy? Will the franchise be effectively awarded by the judicial branch? The last election was about cancelling Congressional corruption. Perhaps this selection is about liquidating legislative larceny and eliminating executive excess. Will Mr. Spitzer execute his image as Mr. Clean if Mr. Field gets the key to the cookie jar? ;)

Indulto
12-29-2006, 03:06 AM
Group Now Tied to an Inquiry Figured in Bruno’s Day at a Track By SEWELL CHAN
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/29/nyregion/29bruno.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/29/nyregion/29bruno.html)


… It was the second day of the three-week racing season at Keeneland, a thoroughbred track and auction house on the western outskirts of Lexington, Ky. …

… Joseph L. Bruno, the majority leader of the New York State Senate, had traveled to join 20,200 people who paid $3 a head to watch the horses.

Later that day, … , Mr. Bruno met donors at a reception that raised money for the State Senate’s Republican majority, which the senator has led since 1994.

… The trip to Kentucky was arranged by two officials at the Friends of New York Racing, … a mixture of businesses and nonprofit groups ... organizations worked in racing or gambling except one: Capital & Technology Advisors, a consulting firm founded by Mr. Abbruzzese, Mr. Bruno’s longtime friend.

… Records of Mr. Bruno’s trip to Kentucky, among other flights, have been turned over to federal prosecutors, according to an official with knowledge of the investigation

alysheba88
12-29-2006, 07:57 AM
"Friends of NY Racing". If that wasnt a tip off from day one, nothing was. Cant believe how many fell for this. These politicians should see jail time for this. Pataki trying to ram this through at the last second was despicable.

Indulto
12-29-2006, 03:35 PM
Veterinarian Who Is a Friend of Senator’s Is Said to Be Subpoenaed in Inquiry
By SEWELL CHAN
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/29/nyregion/29subpoena.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/29/nyregion/29subpoena.html)

… A veterinarian and former chairman of the State Racing and Wagering Board who once jointly owned horses with Joseph L. Bruno, the State Senate majority leader, has received a grand jury subpoena as part of the federal investigation into Mr. Bruno’s business activities, according to two people briefed on the investigation.

… Dr. Bilinski, 62, is now an adviser to Excelsior Racing Associates, a consortium of gambling and racing executives who are seeking to gain control of the state racing franchise.

… Documents concerning the flight to Kentucky that Dr. Bilinski and Mr. Bruno shared last year have been turned over to federal investigators by the state lobbying commission, which is looking into several flights by Mr. Bruno.Excelsior excess examination exceeds Empire’s. :lol:

Indulto
12-31-2006, 05:24 PM
Australian Play For New York Racing By Racing Editor Chris Scholtz
http://www.racingandsports.com.au/racing/rsNewsArt.asp?NID=97584 (http://www.racingandsports.com.au/racing/rsNewsArt.asp?NID=97584)

… Capital Play is a consortium led by Irishman Karl O'Farrell and is reported to include former Sydney and Hong Kong chief steward John Schreck and legal partners located in Canberra.

… Capital Play was eliminated from the task force assessments after failing to post a $US1 million bond in August that was required as security against any litigation stemming from the process.

… The State Legislature has agreed to accept and consider the belated proposal from Capital Play.

… O'Farrell, who has previously been in business partnerships with Sydney bookmaker Robbie Waterhouse, said Capital Play would offer a minimum return of five percent of annual revenue to New York State compared to only one percent offered by Excelsior.

Capital Play is unlikely to match the $US100 million up front payment promised by Excelsior but is said to be offering $US50 million per year for the life of the contract.If this Aussie article is accurate, it aint over 'til the fat wallet sings as four flushers, excuse me ... bidders, replay the finals. ;)

BIG RED
01-02-2007, 05:11 AM
I just read an article that Capital Play will put up 1.8 BILLION! And they are going straight to the state legislature with it.

Indulto
01-05-2007, 03:45 PM
Motion Seeks Dismissal of NYRA Bankruptcy Claim by Tom Precious
http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=36955 (http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=36955)

… NYRA’s structure, the state argues, is as a government entity, not a private business.

... Besides money it provides the state, New York has also regularly bailed out NYRA with tax breaks, bailouts, loans, and other financial support, according to papers submitted with the motion by Robert Williams, assistant counsel for the racing and wagering board. Williams has also been executive director of the state panel that recently recommended Excelsior Racing Associates over Empire Racing Associates and NYRA as the next franchise holder.

… The state’s challenge, if successful, would not only end NYRA’s bankruptcy protection but also toss out NYRA’s claims that it owns the three racetracks even if it loses the franchise.Does this mean Spitzer isn't going to eliminate the NYRA, but instead install all-new management including a board of directors?

Kelso
01-08-2007, 01:08 AM
Motion Seeks Dismissal of NYRA Bankruptcy Claim
by Tom Precious
http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=36955 (http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=36955)

… NYRA’s structure, the state argues, is as a government entity, not a private business.

... Besides money it provides the state, New York has also regularly bailed out NYRA with tax breaks,



Having been subjected to (presumably corporate income) taxation in the first place seems to rule out NYRA as a "government entity."

Indulto
01-08-2007, 02:09 AM
Having been subjected to (presumably corporate income) taxation in the first place seems to rule out NYRA as a "government entity."Good point. Sure hope the transcripts of the proceedings become available.Excelsior opposes NYRA action By MATTHEGARTY
(http://drf.com/news/article/81702.html)http://drf.com/news/article/81702.html (http://drf.com/news/article/81702.html)

Excelsior Racing Associates, the private partnership that is seeking the franchise held by the New York Racing Association, has joined New York State in asking a federal judge to throw out NYRA's petition for protection under Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

… Excelsior said in its motion to the court that NYRA's claim on the properties undermines the state panel's work.

… "NYRA's bankruptcy proceedings and its complaint threaten to undo the RFP process and to deny Excelsior's valuable interest in becoming the next franchisee."NYRA's loan request hearing delayedBy DAVID GRENING
http://drf.com/news/article/81706.html (http://drf.com/news/article/81706.html)

… The reason for the adjournment is to give NYRA ample time to respond to objections filed by several parties regarding NYRA's proposed financing agreement with GE Capital Corp. for a $50 million loan. As collateral for the loan, NYRA is putting up the properties of Aqueduct, Belmont, and Saratoga - the three racetracks at which it conducts racing.

Before those objections were filed, NYRA was hoping Judge Peck would rule on Tuesday that NYRA owns the land.

…NYRA will also be in bankruptcy court on Jan. 19 when it is expected that Judge Peck will hear the state's motion to dismiss NYRA's bankruptcy case altogether. The state contends that NYRA, as a "public agency" and "instrumentality" of the state is not eligible to declare bankruptcy.

PaceAdvantage
01-08-2007, 05:43 PM
Hmmm...this is getting real interesting, is it not?

PlanB
01-08-2007, 05:54 PM
You see the set up. BECAUSE NYRA is such a quasi ill-defined entity, it has NO RIGHTS that corporate entities have. It seems that NYRA has ONLY obligations but NO rights. If I were defending NYRA I would ask "what are my rights in horse racing?" ---------

the little guy
01-08-2007, 06:01 PM
The State said publically they were going to dispute NYRA's bankrupcy claim the day after they made it. The real question is what the hell took them so long.

Indulto
01-13-2007, 03:03 PM
Public invited to "town meeting" on racing's future by PAUL POST
http://www.saratogian.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17707821&BRD=1169&PAG=461&dept_id=17708&rfi=6 (http://www.saratogian.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17707821&BRD=1169&PAG=461&dept_id=17708&rfi=6)

… Seven of nine ad hoc panel members favored Excelsior's business plan, but Empire has since agreed to match and in some cases exceed Excelsior's proposals. Perlee has maintained that the ad hoc committee's vote was just the beginning of the franchise selection process.

… on Feb. 6, NYRA will ask the court to give an opinion on its management contract with MGM Grand for a proposed video lottery terminal facility at Aqueduct. The state Lottery Division has refused to take action on the deal, which has been before it since June. Without Lottery's approval, the facility can't be built.

The judge's opinion would be non-binding, but a favorable ruling might strengthen NYRA's contention that the agreement is a good one for all involved parties, Nader said.The Borg are coming … ;)

Anyone here planning to attend?

Indulto
01-19-2007, 02:42 PM
Bruno trip included key appointee
Member of panel responsible for oversight of NYRA was member of senator's Florida travel party
By Brendan J. Lyons and James M. Odato Friday, January 19, 2007
http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=555206&category=REGION&newsdate=1/19/2007 (http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=555206&category=REGION&newsdate=1/19/2007)
… An official briefed on the federal investigation said Thursday that Bruno and Abbruzzese were accompanied on the Palm Beach trip by Joseph Torani, who is the Senate Republicans' appointee to the New York Racing Association's Oversight Committee.

... Hayward said Torani told him he went to Florida with Bruno last January, detailing the helicopter ride over Gulfstream Park.

However, Hayward said Torani proved to be an advocate for NYRA on the oversight board.

… Hayward said he has concerns about what was going on behind the scenes as Friends of New York Racing, a nonprofit group that included Abbruzzese, morphed into Empire Racing Associates. Empire Racing officials said Hayward is off base in describing Friends of New York Racing as its forerunner.Spitzer reimburses donor $110,000 for fundraising, travel costs
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newyork/ny-bc-ny--spitzer-finances0118jan18,0,5369520.story?coll=ny-region-apnewyork (http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newyork/ny-bc-ny--spitzer-finances0118jan18,0,5369520.story?coll=ny-region-apnewyork)
ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) _ Gov. Eliot Spitzer's campaign returned about $110,000 to a contributor who is part of a group bidding for the state's lucrative thoroughbred racing franchise.

A filing with the state Board of Elections shows Spitzer's campaign reimbursed $52,579 to SG Management, a company run by casino developer Richard Fields.

… Spitzer sent payments of $51,292 and $4,610 to another Fields-controlled company, Coastal Development, for the cost of flights, hotel and car expenses.Meanwhile, no coverage yet of Empire's recent Saratoga town meeting by DRF or B-H after publishing announcements. Only TT followed up among the major industry press, but with nothing significant.

More "hot dog" testimony? :)

saratoga guy
01-19-2007, 05:46 PM
Meanwhile, no coverage yet of Empire's recent Saratoga town meeting by DRF or B-H after publishing announcements. Only TT followed up among the major industry press, but with nothing significant.


www.equidaily.com the day after (posted within ten hours of the end of the meeting)...

Link to video coverage:

http://www.capitalnews9.com/shared/video/buildasx.asp?AdShown=&vids=98689&mswmext=Empire Racing holds town hall meeting

Link to print coverage:

http://www.poststar.com/articles/2007/01/17/news/doc45aee99b7a179877189801.txt

Indulto
01-19-2007, 06:48 PM
www.equidaily.com (http://www.equidaily.com/) the day after (posted within ten hours of the end of the meeting)...

Link to video coverage:

http://www.capitalnews9.com/shared/video/buildasx.asp?AdShown=&vids=98689&mswmext=Empire Racing holds town hall meeting

Link to print coverage:

http://www.poststar.com/articles/2007/01/17/news/doc45aee99b7a179877189801.txt
Thanks, SG.

I had already accessed both those links through Google. I just wondered why it didn't merit DRF and B-H attention. Maybe nothing was addressed that hadn't been covered before.

Indulto
01-23-2007, 06:41 PM
45 People In A Room by Elizabeth Benjamin
http://blogs.timesunion.com/capitol/?p=3442 (http://blogs.timesunion.com/capitol/?p=3442)
That’s how many heads I counted presiding over the the first state comptroller intrview (Bill Mulrow) in the LOB’s Hearing Room B this morning.

… Mulrow said he would resign from Citigroup, where he is the director of Global Capital Markets, which he said would end his interest in Excelsior Racing Associates - one of several firms seeking the right to run the NYRA thoroughbred tracks.

He also said he would recuse himself from anything that has to do with the awarding of this franchise (the comptroller will eventually have to approve the contract), and put all his assets in a blind trust.

Indulto
01-26-2007, 10:02 PM
A.M. Roundup by Elizabeth Benjamin
http://blogs.timesunion.com/capitol/?p=3500 (http://blogs.timesunion.com/capitol/?p=3500)
Silver told The New York Sun he wants to scrap the recommendations of an ad hoc committee on racing as to who should run the NYRA franchise. Interesting timing for this story, given that one of the comptroller candidates, Bill Mulrow, has an interest in one of the firms seeking the franchise, Excelsior Racing Associates.Speaker Dislikes Pataki-Era Plan On Horse Racing
http://www.nysun.com/article/47480 (http://www.nysun.com/article/47480)
The Democratic speaker of the Assembly, Sheldon Silver, said he favors tossing aside recommendations made by a Pataki-era committee on who should have exclusive rights to operate the Saratoga Race Course, Belmont Park, and Aqueduct.

"I think, fortunately, this governor will have to create a new process to vet people," Mr. Silver told The New York Sun. "There has to be a new vetting process to determine what to do with the franchise."

… Mr. Silver mocked the ad hoc committee's grading system under which the category of "integrity" counted for about a fifth of the evaluation and was assigned a larger weight than "financial viability."

"The other process gave weight to ethics, which was ridiculous," Mr. Silver said. "If you're unethical but you bid an extra $1 million, we may take you. But if you're ethical and bid $1 million less, it doesn't help you."

Indulto
02-02-2007, 03:01 PM
Silver speaks out on racing By PAUL POST
http://www.saratogian.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17798246&BRD=1169&PAG=461&dept_id=17708&rfi=6 (http://www.saratogian.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17798246&BRD=1169&PAG=461&dept_id=17708&rfi=6)
… The state can maximize racing revenues by letting Gov. Eliot Spitzer deal directly with potential track operators, Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver said Thursday.
The New York City Democrat also said former Gov. George E. Pataki deliberately "starved" New York Racing Association by refusing to authorize video lottery terminals at Aqueduct.

… "The governor (Pataki) wanted to keep his power over NYRA and keep them dependent on him for hand-outs," Silver said. "Truthfully, he made the state forego tens of millions of dollars in revenue.""Better late than never" or "Too late now, me hearties …"?

News from Empire Racing
Empire Racing Taps Daniel R. Alonso To Serve As Integrity Czar
http://www.eisinc.com/release/storiesh/EMOWER.028.html (http://www.eisinc.com/release/storiesh/EMOWER.028.html)
… In addition to the creation of a permanent Integrity Task Force with independent members, Empire Racing will mandate a permanent Inspector General, who will report both to the CEO and to the Integrity Task Force of the Board, site-based Compliance Officers to ensure that all racetrack activities are in compliance with all applicable standards; an integrity hotline to encourage employees and the public to report information regarding possible offenses; regular employee Integrity Assessments to ensure that all legal and ethical requirements are being upheld, and; regular professional training of investigators and security officers. Does this approach appear surrealistic to anyone else? To me it sounds like something between the Department of Homeland Security and Cossacks. Who ensures the integrity of the integrity checkers? Can there be a Czar without peasants to punish?

As it seemingly adds (and deletes) board members/investors, and tries to redefine itself whenever a new political wind blows, Empire reminds me of a computer program in an endless loop that just keeps consuming memory.

The issue here is no longer integrity, but sanity.

the little guy
02-02-2007, 07:47 PM
I have to thank you for posting these links....they are extremely informative and entertaining. As frustrating as this franchise battle can seem, it's nice to also be able to enjoy the twists and turns, and I certainly appreciate you providing these quotes and links.

I wonder how the Empire Integrity Czar feels about the cash payments Empire board members may be slated to receive should they be successful in their franchise bid. I guess as long as his is in line it's problem not a problem....at least for him.

Thanks again.

Indulto
02-02-2007, 11:27 PM
I have to thank you for posting these links....they are extremely informative and entertaining. As frustrating as this franchise battle can seem, it's nice to also be able to enjoy the twists and turns, and I certainly appreciate you providing these quotes and links.

I wonder how the Empire Integrity Czar feels about the cash payments Empire board members may be slated to receive should they be successful in their franchise bid. I guess as long as his is in line it's problem not a problem....at least for him.

Thanks again.tlg,
You’re welcome.

I’m appreciative of the fact that you have been keeping the issue in the public eye on the ATTRB radio show, and have had the courage to question the proceedings on-air. There is too little editorial commentary on the subject from the horseplayer’s perspective beyond that provided by you and your friend Crist.

I could be wrong, but I believe that as racing at Saratoga and Belmont goes, so does racing in the United States. As the horseplaying market moves further off-track, the concentration of racing at the highest level in Hong Kong, the UAE, or even France is not impossible. I like to joke about outsourcing Grade I racing to Dubai, but the recently announced Breeder’s Cup speculation regarding Hong Kong is no laughing matter.

So I’m convinced thoroughbred racing fans nationwide have as much at stake as the citizens of Saratoga in continuing the sport’s traditions at their racetrack. I also worry about Belmont Park.

It amazes me that as opinionated and vocal (complaining?) as horseplayers tend to be, they are so passive, generally, toward track operators, and loathe to ensure that their collective interests are considered in awarding the NY franchise.

Take these Empire press releases -- do they ever talk about uniform medication standards and enforcement, lowering takeout, lowering exotic wager minimums, carding races of interest to fans, or even statistical determination of customer preferences in various categories?

I welcome your related opinions and insights on-board and off. Keep up the good work!

the little guy
02-03-2007, 12:19 AM
I hear what you're saying about a sort of apathy among fans but in all fairness it's very easy to see where they're coming from. The simple truth is that as fans most have been kicked around so long, and so hard, that eventually one just sort of gives up. One of the nice things about boards like this is at least they offer an opportunity to vent, and even though disagreements arise, at least most are united in a similar struggle. The problem is that as horseplayers we also have a ingrained selfishness as we are trying to make money playing and everything else eventually takes a back seat to that. There is truly nothing wrong with that as ultimately that is what being a horseplayer is about.

However, since I guess I am " lucky " to at least have a certain access I can at least delude myself into thinking that maybe, just maybe, there is a little chance that I might be able to make a difference somewhere and somewhow. Whether or not that is true in reality is debatable but at least I have a slightly better forum for venting than most and who knows perhaps someone that does matter will one day be foolish enough to listen.

But, truth be told, ultimately I am as selfish as everyone else, and my main concerns are the next days' cards at Aqueduct and Gulfstream.

Indulto
02-03-2007, 07:22 PM
...However, since I guess I am " lucky " to at least have a certain access I can at least delude myself into thinking that maybe, just maybe, there is a little chance that I might be able to make a difference somewhere and somewhow. Whether or not that is true in reality is debatable but at least I have a slightly better forum for venting than most and who knows perhaps someone that does matter will one day be foolish enough to listen.Rahys' Appeal will run rather than rest By DAVID GRENING 02/01/2007
http://www.drf.com/news/article/82280.html (http://www.drf.com/news/article/82280.html)
… Empire Racing schedules meeting

Racing fans are invited to a meeting to be held by Empire Racing to discuss the future of racing in the state.

… The meeting will be held at the New Hyde Park Inn, 214 Jericho Turnpike, New Hyde Park, N.Y., from 7 to 9 p.m. Wednesday.

Officials from Empire will make a short presentation and then solicit input and discussion from participants on their concerns and ideas for revitalizing racing in the state.tlg,
Why not lay a little journalism (and/or activism) on us and record some interviews there for ATTRB as well as share your observations and impressions on-air?


For any down-staters and activist up-staters here:

http://www.nhpinn.com/directions.html (http://www.nhpinn.com/directions.html)
... The New Hyde Park Inn is centrally located, convenient to guests arriving from the five boroughs of New York City as well as Long Island and Westchester.

Indulto
02-04-2007, 08:57 PM
Should we anticipate an announcement from Empire addressing the recent jockey hospitalization issue in a manner consistent with Gov. Spitzer's intention to cut state spending on healthcare?

What an opportunity to add a distinguished medical professional to their board! ;)

Indulto
02-05-2007, 06:17 PM
Keep the information;answer the questions
Troy Record Editorial 02/05/2007
http://www.troyrecord.com/site/news.cfm?BRD=1170&dept_id=7018&newsid=17810234&PAG=461&rfi=9 (http://www.troyrecord.com/site/news.cfm?BRD=1170&dept_id=7018&newsid=17810234&PAG=461&rfi=9)

… A complete do-over is not necessary, notwithstanding comments to the contrary by Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver and Gov. Eliot Spitzer.

… There are, however, major questions that the governor must answer: Is it not in the best interests of the state and Saratoga for the tracks' operator to continue as a nonprofit entity? What are the risks to Saratoga Race Course should the operator be a profit-making business that could, sooner or later, go public?At first I wondered if the author might be advocating retaining NYRA based on the Ad Hoc Committee’s work, but then I remembered this article:Excelsior recommended for New York racing franchise by Paul Post and Jeff Lowe 11/21/2006
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/todaysnews/newsview.asp?recno=67909&subsec=1 (http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/todaysnews/newsview.asp?recno=67909&subsec=1)

… "Under current law, all liabilities of the non-profit racing association become the liabilities of the State of New York at the end of the franchise," Pretlow said. "That's a savings of $50 million right there."

Firms were graded in six separate areas under a weighted scoring system, with detailed business proposal counting for half the score. In that category, the committee gave Excelsior a 7-2 vote of approval. Panel members favored Excelsior's plan to run racing on a non-profit basis and keep it separate from video lottery terminal operations at Aqueduct and possibly Belmont. Empire was the only firm whose business plan called for a for-profit enterprise.

… The committee was comprised of three appointees each from Governor George Pataki and Senate Majority Leader Joseph L. Bruno (R-Brunswick) and Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver (D-Manhattan). The only two members voting against Excelsior in the most heavily weighted area—business proposal—were Pataki appointees. Other areas included integrity (20%), financial viability and managerial theory (10% each), and experience and lease payment (5% each). Excelsior also won in the managerial theory and financial viability categories while Empire was first in integrity, experience, and lease payment, offering the state an up-front $100 million payment plus $7.5 million per year for the life of the 20-year contract. So why didn't the editorial just come right out and endorse Excelsior?

Fageddahboud horses and slots. It occurred to me that Excelsior is far and away the best poker player. Sitting with a pat hand, and never opening its mouth, it avoids the hoof insertion so characteristic of one of its rivals.

The 3 Silver-appointed Dems were joined not only by the 3 Bruno-appointed Reps, but even 1 of the Pataki-appointed Reps. Spitzer can award the franchise to his buddy, Fields, and claim dacommiddeediddid.

Given that all his appointees were part of the majority opinion, Silver's call for a do-over does not reflect outstanding judgement or represent a shining example of leadership. Hi-ho Silver a-w-a-a-a-y.

So what’s the Guv waiting for? Maybe he plays cards too, and he’s waiting for Excelsior to trump Capital Play’s offer. Waydaminnid -- herecomedajudge!

Indulto
02-08-2007, 05:13 AM
State legislators elect fellow pol to fill vacancy left by Hevesi, prompting a tirade from Spitzer, who had wanted an outsider with financial skills BY JOHN RILEY
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/state/ny-stcomp085084956feb08,0,4484096.story?coll=ny-statenews-headlines (http://www.newsday.com/news/local/state/ny-stcomp085084956feb08,0,4484096.story?coll=ny-statenews-headlines)

… "We have just witnessed an insider's game of self-dealing that unfortunately confirms every New Yorker's worst fears and image of all that goes on in the legislature of this state," fumed Spitzer. He called the choice "a stark reminder of all that is wrong with our legislature and its leadership and why we have so much ground to cover in our effort to reform Albany."

The tongue-lashing climaxed a month-long struggle between Spitzer and lawmakers over his insistence that a non-legislator with financial experience should fill the vacancy left by Alan Hevesi's resignation, and nearly overshadowed DiNapoli's victory over the only other nominee, Martha Stark, New York City's finance commissioner and one of three non-legislators deemed qualified by a Spitzer-backed screening panel of former comptrollers.One of the three non-legislators recommended by a Spitzer-picked committee of former comptrollers was William Mulrow who reportedly is a close friend of Spitzer, independently wealthy, and a shareholder in Excelsior Racing.He Spitz in Gov's eye -- Shelly's controller pick a slap at Eliot
BY JOE MAHONEY and DAVID SALTONSTALL
Gov. Spitzer declared war on Joe Bruno and Sheldon Silver after their crony was picked to replace Alan Hevesi
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/495779p-417744c.html (http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/495779p-417744c.html)

Gov. Spitzer may have lost his battle yesterday to name a new state controller - but he promises an all-out war against the state's top legislative leaders.

Speaking minutes after Democratic Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver and Republican Senate leader Joe Bruno installed their hand-picked crony, Assemblyman Thomas DiNapoli, as controller, Spitzer let loose like never before.

… Even by Albany's standards of pumped-up rhetoric, it was a stunning assault, and one that the reformist Spitzer conceded marked a "turning point" in his relations with Spitzer and Bruno, long the twin powers of Albany.

Bruno dished it out almost as good, boasting hours before the vote, "The governor will learn there are three branches of government. ... This is Day 2. Stay tuned."

Indulto
02-09-2007, 09:04 PM
Columnist Crist’s compelling commentary concerning comptroller crisis:New York in turbulent state By STEVEN CRIST
http://drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=82495 (http://drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=82495)

… the newly elected governor declared war on the entire state legislature.

Entertainment value aside, this all actually has something to do with racing, because the unprecedented hostility between the governor and legislators seems certain to affect the battle for the New York Racing Association franchise.

… All of this makes the franchise issue that Spitzer inherited a little more interesting on two counts. First, the chances of an amiably brokered deal among the governor and the two houses of the legislature seems increasingly unlikely. Second, as Spitzer continues to emphasize rather than retreat from his zealous stance as a uniquely principled reformer, it will grow ever more difficult for Spitzer to accept the recommendation of the previous administration to award the franchise to a group that includes at least two close Spitzer associates and contributors.

aaron
02-11-2007, 11:22 AM
It should be interesting to see the mechanics of who gets to run the slots in NY.
As for the racing,I would guess no matter who runs the racing,the purses will increase,which should be good for the industry.The player will most likely see no benefit. As for the on track player,I doubt that they will return,no matter who gets the franchise.I used to attend the races live,at least 3-4 days a week.I now don't attend Aqueduct at all and will probably attend Belmont less.
I like attending the races live,but I don't see the powers that be doing anything to encourage you to go to the track to bet horses.As I see it they will probably run buses and do things to encourage slot players to attend.
Over the last 30 years the management of the race tracks in NY have given away the keys to the kingdom with bad business decisons.Times have changed and its not likely they will be able to attract people to visit their facilities on a regular basis.Its just too easy and comfortable to bet from or other venues.

PaceAdvantage
02-11-2007, 11:50 AM
Over the last 30 years the management of the race tracks in NY have given away the keys to the kingdom with bad business decisons.Times have changed and its not likely they will be able to attract people to visit their facilities on a regular basis.Its just too easy and comfortable to bet from or other venues.

Isn't than an industry-wide dilemma? Is NY the only place where on-track attendance has gone down?

Obviously, with the increase of OTBs, simulcast wagering, phone wagering and INTERNET wagering, track attendance takes a serious hit. Good thing tracks don't rely on attendance to keep them afloat....they rely on wagering $$$ primarily....or slot money....lol

aaron
02-11-2007, 12:17 PM
Pa,
Attendance at tracks is an industry wide problem.
I guess what I am saying is that increasing on track attendance should not be considered an issue,because it is not going to happen,so any entity trying to peddle their package saying that they will bring people back to the track should not be considered rational.
People will come for the slots and that is the only reason on track attendance may increase.
Pa-
Where are you so sensitive everytime NYRA's failures are mentioned ?I am not saying anything that hasn't been documented over many years. Have you been to the track at all in the last few years ? If you have, I can't believe you would find anything positive to say.The facilities are dirty and unkempt at Aqueduct. Belmont needs a paint job and some maintenance.Saratoga is the only track they care about.
The tellers are basically incompetent and surly,and I don't want to get in to their changing of tote companies.

PaceAdvantage
02-11-2007, 12:36 PM
Where are you so sensitive everytime NYRA's failures are mentioned ?I am not saying anything that hasn't been documented over many years. Have you been to the track at all in the last few years ? If you have, I can't believe you would find anything positive to say.The facilities are dirty and unkempt at Aqueduct. Belmont needs a paint job and some maintenance.Saratoga is the only track they care about.
The tellers are basically incompetent and surly,and I don't want to get in to their changing of tote companies.

Have YOU been to Aqueduct lately? I've seen a lot of maintenance going on (painting, etc.) for a track that is in the middle of bankruptcy.....I wonder where they are getting the money from, and why would they be making cosmetic improvements if they are struggling to even survive?

To answer your main point, for one, NYRA is my home track....I grew up on NYRA and I love NYRA racing. I LOVE Belmont and Saratoga, and I will ALWAYS have a strong fondness for the winter Aqueduct inner-track meeting.

I'm not sensitive. I'm just trying to be FAIR. In that last post, you tried to pass off dropping attendance as a problem unique to NYRA and caused by poor management at NYRA over the last 30 years.

YES, we all know NYRA management has been lacking at times. But we also all know that declining on-track attendance is an INDUSTRY-WIDE problem, so to try and present it as a NYRA-only problem is disingenuous on your part. And to try and pin it on NYRA management is silly, when we all know the major reason attendance has declined is because of the increasing availability of venues other than the track where you can place your bet.

If the track was one of the few places you could get a bet down, the walls could be CRUMBLING and the place would still be packed.....THIS is the reason for poor management in the past....management was operating under the assumption that they were one of the few games in town, so whatever they do, or DON'T DO, doesn't matter, since the people will still come and wager.

The real heart of the matter is that attendance at the TRACK really isn't all that important if the wagering dollars continue to flow....and this leads TODAY's management to not really push themselves to bolster on-track attendance. Sure, more bodies in the stands LOOKS nice, but if the wagering $$$ is still the same whether there are 20,000 or 2,000 at the track this weekend, the track's bottom line isn't as affected as much as you'd think, given the huge disparity in on-track attendance figures.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong....

aaron
02-11-2007, 01:02 PM
PA-
I have probably been betting and going to NYRA tracks longer than you.The reason I address these problems as being NYRA problems is because I live in NY and attended the races at NYRA.
As for your stance that the important thing is that the "wagering dollars continue to flow"
This is not the solution.It would be great if the dollars flowed at the NYRA tracks or into NYRA One accounts,but the dollars flowing from otb's and other venues are at a very cheap rate,so that additional handle really doesn't benefit NYRA as much as it should.
So while I agree on track attendance can not be greatly improved perhaps betting with NYRA ONE accounts can be.
Also,the bottom line is not the same if attendance is 2000,instead of 20,000 and you'd be a fool to think it is and I don't think you're a fool.

PaceAdvantage
02-11-2007, 02:14 PM
Also,the bottom line is not the same if attendance is 2000,instead of 20,000 and you'd be a fool to think it is and I don't think you're a fool.

I never said it would be the same. Here's what I stated:

Sure, more bodies in the stands LOOKS nice, but if the wagering $$$ is still the same whether there are 20,000 or 2,000 at the track this weekend, the track's bottom line isn't as affected as much as you'd think, given the huge disparity in on-track attendance figures.

"ISN'T AS AFFECTED AS MUCH AS YOU'D THINK" does not equal "BOTTOM LINE IS THE SAME"

aaron
02-11-2007, 03:43 PM
Pa-
If the wagering $ is the same whether there 2000 people in the stands or 20000 people on the stands,don't you think that the difference of 18000 people betting thru NYRA instead of betting thru otb's or other betting venue could be significant ? I know many bettors who stopped going to the track and also stopped betting thru their NYRA accounts.

saratoga guy
02-11-2007, 05:26 PM
Where are you so sensitive everytime NYRA's failures are mentioned ?I am not saying anything that hasn't been documented over many years.

I certainly won't speak for PA, but, speaking for myself, when someone posts something like this...

Over the last 30 years the management of the race tracks in NY have given away the keys to the kingdom with bad business decisons.

...I find it a little bit disingenuous because it implies that NYRA is different than other racing entities.

The fact is, the problems plaguing NYRA as far as attendance and the overall popularity of the sport are problems for everyone.

Clearly Churchill (a bidding partner for the NY franchise) doesn't have a magic wand -- otherwise they wouldn't have sold Hollywood and Ellis Park.

aaron
02-11-2007, 05:45 PM
As I have stated before, I am not really concerned about the problems of the other racing entites.I don't care if racing in Kentucky, Maryland,Florida,and California is run poorly.
Saratoga Guy- You are implying that because other racing venues have problems it is okay for NY racing to have the same problems.
How about this- If NewYork racing had been able to do a better and efficent job over the years maybe racing in NY would not have such severe problems.
Even in the last few years NYRA in my opinion has missed the mark.They got rid of Barry Schwartz who in my opinion did try to do the right thing regarding NY racing. He was the last administrator who lowered the take and he was working for nothing. His administration was blamed for all the inequities that were going on long before he took the helm. I know many people on this board don't agree with this,but I have not seen any improvement since he left.

Kelso
02-11-2007, 06:48 PM
if the wagering $$$ is still the same whether there are 20,000 or 2,000 at the track this weekend, the track's bottom line isn't as affected as much as you'd think



Don't the tracks have to split the takeout to some degree with the off-track sites, or do the off-tracks tack on extra take? Assuming the former, I would expect there to be reasonable profit boost from attracting more trackside bettors.

On that count, has anyone heard any anecdotal evidence that perhaps some slot players ... upon having perhaps their first-ever exposure to the excitement of a live race ... are now becoming horse players as well? My guess is that the vast majority of casino players have never even considered betting on a race. There's nothing to stop them from betting on both horses and machines.

With some imaginative on-site marketing, the slots might be the source of significantly increased handles? (Or just wishful thinking?)

Indulto
02-11-2007, 07:29 PM
... I would expect there to be reasonable profit boost from attracting more trackside bettors.

On that count, has anyone heard any anecdotal evidence that perhaps some slot players ... upon having perhaps their first-ever exposure to the excitement of a live race ... are now becoming horse players as well? My guess is that the vast majority of casino players have never even considered betting on a race. There's nothing to stop them from betting on both horses and machines.

With some imaginative on-site marketing, the slots might be the source of significantly increased handles? (Or just wishful thinking?)5X,
I agree with you. I've always thought that a great way to introduce horseracing to slots players was to offer an on-track only 5c pari-mutuel wager called the PerfectPick in which the winner has to specify the exact order of finish for all entries in a race. This would be a lottery type of bet to compete with nickel slots that wouldn't wear out a player's arm. Supers, Tris and Exs would be natural progressions.

The problem, of course, is the potential slowdown in slots activity nine-times a day to watch the live race. Maybe they could measure how quickly a slot player's arm gets tired to achieve the same effect. Seems to me a guaranteed break would increase the gross through renewed vigor, but I'm sure that would be as popular with the powers-that-be as lowering takeout.;)

saratoga guy
02-11-2007, 09:08 PM
As I have stated before, I am not really concerned about the problems of the other racing entites.I don't care if racing in Kentucky, Maryland,Florida,and California is run poorly.
Saratoga Guy- You are implying that because other racing venues have problems it is okay for NY racing to have the same problems.

I didn't come remotely close to implying that.

Rather, in this thread about the NY franchise, it's perfectly legit to criticize any problems that NY racing has. But the question needs to be addressed: How to solve those problems, and who best to do it.

Thus, you have to be concerned with other racing entities. Is someone out there doing better than NYRA? If not, why not? Perhaps these problems are not that easily solved that we should expect the next franchise holder to have the magic wand.

Two member-partners of one of the franchise bidders [Magna and Churchill] have demonstrated problems of their own in recent years.

Go ahead -- point to problems real or perceived with NYRA -- but then tell us who, among the franchise bidders, will solve them and why you think that.

Kelso
02-11-2007, 10:14 PM
I've always thought that a great way to introduce horseracing to slots players was to offer an on-track only 5c pari-mutuel wager called the PerfectPick in which the winner has to specify the exact order of finish for all entries in a race.



Great idea! Simple, cheap, track-exclusive, and potentially addictive! Run it as a progressive ... with which lottery and slot players can readily identify ... and by the 3rd carry-over there might be a couple hundred slot players along the rail actually getting caught up in the action.

Then, the next time they're waiting for their favorite machine to free up, they might put a deuce on the favorite just to kill the time. (Similar strategy to having diners drop a few extra bucks at the bar while waiting for a table.)

Indulto
02-11-2007, 11:18 PM
... in this thread about the NY franchise, it's perfectly legit to criticize any problems that NY racing has. But the question needs to be addressed: How to solve those problems, and who best to do it.

... Go ahead -- point to problems real or perceived with NYRA -- but then tell us who, among the franchise bidders, will solve them and why you think that.SG,
At this point in the proceedings, it's hard to believe any of the bidders would be forthcoming with any solutions that don't coincide with their own interests.

A potential flaw with the RFP is that it merely invited solutions rather than specify them. We haven't yet seen each bidder's proposal, but I suspect that workable solutions will involve some combination of ideas from all parties. Perhaps that was the Grand Plan all along -- to elicit ideas from which to take subsequent legislative action.

The tail should not wag the dog. The Governor and the legislature need to set the rules to make racing work for the state, its citizens, horse owners, and customers.

Do the events of the last week encourage that possibility? Any talk of integrity is just lip service until Baeza gets his reputation back. All the bidders deserve scrutiny, but the NYRA still has to answer for that one.

Indulto
02-12-2007, 04:27 AM
Official: No Special Favors for Spitzer Donor By JACOB GERSHMAN
http://www.nysun.com/article/48418?page_no=1 (http://www.nysun.com/article/48418?page_no=1)

… After Mr. Spitzer was elected, the question remained: How would Mr. Spitzer return the favor? The answer, according to a Spitzer official, is the governor will not.

… Said the official: "I am positive we won't be talking about Fields in three months or six weeks."

The official's comments do not bode well for Mr. Fields, who is depending on support from the administration on two major business ventures with millions of dollars at stake.

… The official would not elaborate on Mr. Spitzer's position on the horseracing franchise and the development of an Oneida casino.

aaron
02-12-2007, 10:03 AM
Saratoga Guy
It is my belief that all the bidders for the NY franchise have their own agenda. I don't know if any of the bidders even care
about helping racing,but it is possiable that that a new entity might do something positive.
I realize that the companies bidding all have short comings and are actually bidding on a slot franchise.
NYRA under various managements has failed for 30 years.The other companies are unknown entities.Some of the people associated with the other companies have been sucessful in business which is a plus.
No matter who runs racing,it must be run as a business,not as self serving agency. NYRA has done what is good for NYRA big shots not what is good for the customer or racing.
Can current management change this situation ? Can it actually run racing as a business and be profitable ? I don't know if NYRA can do this. If you think NYRA can do this,please give some reasons other than the people running NYRA now are good people.

PaceAdvantage
02-12-2007, 10:20 AM
Hey aaron....a simple question....

Do you believe the way NYRA was created over 50 years ago (as a not-for-profit quasi-governmental entity) has anything to do with their ability to run "racing as a business" and be profitable? (never mind that they are a not-for-profit, and therefore, are not ALLOWED to earn a profit).

aaron
02-12-2007, 10:38 AM
PA
I do believe the way NYRA was created hampered their ability to run racing as a business. I also believe the way the franchise was created it should not have been run into bankruptcy.I also believe if there is any intention to run NYRA as a business, why was a very sucessful businessman(Barry Schwartz}
run out of town?
PA-Answer this question-Why do you believe that the current people running NYRA can be successful running NYRA as a business? Do they have any credentials ? What businesses have they run successfully ?

alysheba88
02-12-2007, 03:35 PM
I firmly believe that the NYRA management is far different from their predecessors. Anyone who has spent any time with a Bill Nader would realize that. I am very comfortable with them running the franchise- much more so than the alternatives.

This is all about slots. Never forget that. If the slots (VLT's) were in like they were supposed to, purses would be much much higher, NYRA would never have a deficit, and we would not be discussing alternatives.

aaron
02-12-2007, 03:59 PM
Alysheba88-
I agree this is all about slots,but what qualifications other than Bill Nader is nice guy give you the impression that this administration is not in over its head.
Perhaps, lf the administration was able to better deal with the politicians slots would already be in place.
You can blame the politicians{rightly so},but for a racing establishment to be successful they have to be able to with them.

PaceAdvantage
02-12-2007, 04:26 PM
PA-Answer this question-Why do you believe that the current people running NYRA can be successful running NYRA as a business? Do they have any credentials ? What businesses have they run successfully ?

Because they've been battle tested through one of the toughest periods any racetrack operator has ever had to endure, and yet they are still putting out a quality product on par with any previous (indictment-free) NYRA administration.

The "current people" are paying for the sins of the past, through little or no fault of their own, and they are keeping the ship going despite the treacherous waters around them. That's why I think they can be successful running NYRA as a business. I would call what they're doing now a success, given all the bullshit they've had to deal with...

aaron
02-12-2007, 04:36 PM
Pa-
Your entitled to your opinion,but the previous administration were also paying for the sins of the past and they put out a better product and got the last reduction in takeout.

saratoga guy
02-12-2007, 05:16 PM
Pa-
Your entitled to your opinion,but the previous administration were also paying for the sins of the past and they put out a better product and got the last reduction in takeout.

Aaron,

Frankly I don't think you see the forest for the trees.

In 1997 NYRA had its franchise extended -- that was three years before the expiration date. So, a) they had a pretty good relationship with the state govt then, and b) no one else was interested.

Fast forward to the NY legislature passing slots legislation and a guy like Joe Bruno -- who had been a NYRA supporter -- turns wishy-washy on the organization. Couldn't have anything to do with his son being hired at the time to lobby for Magna?

Spitzer goes after NYRA. Come to find out he's taken European vacations with a partner in one of the franchise bidding groups.

It's all a little cozy -- and all conveniently tied to slots.

You say the other bidders have proven businessmen. Great. Take a look at the NYRA board. Plenty of good businessmen there.

But you think maybe it's time for a fresh approach. Hmmm, why weren't these "new shooters" so interested in showing off their racing-track acumen when -- oh, I don't know, let's say Hollywood or Ellis Park came up for sale.

Oh yeah, no slots.

The bidding front-runner right now has said that they will run slots "for-profit" and racing "not-for-profit". That should really warm the hearts of racing fans (sarcasm intended).

Imagine a business entity with two parts, one for-profit, the other not-for-profit. Where do you think their time, energy, and investment will be focused?

One of the other bidders has Churchill Downs as a partner. Take a look at their recent Derby/Oaks seat license requirement to get an idea of how fan-friendly they are.

NYRA isn't perfect. But of the bidders with track records, NYRA's is just as good. Of the bidders without track records -- well, better the devil you know, than the devil you don't know...

I have very few complaints actually with the product NYRA puts out. And if they hadn't been obviously blocked from installing slots over the past couple of years we wouldn't be having this conversation.

alysheba88
02-12-2007, 05:46 PM
Alysheba88-
I agree this is all about slots,but what qualifications other than Bill Nader is nice guy give you the impression that this administration is not in over its head.
Perhaps, lf the administration was able to better deal with the politicians slots would already be in place.
You can blame the politicians{rightly so},but for a racing establishment to be successful they have to be able to with them.

He has been in the racetrack business a while. Worked in NH before I believe. Only racetrack exec I know who will talk with and listen to bettors.

As far as dealing with politicians its the fact I dont follow at all. Its the politicians who have been dealing shady on this. Are you saying NYRA should be shady? VLTs were approved a long time ago. NYRA wants them in. The state has prevented it. Because the state wants NYRA to fail. So they can put in their own gang. Get it?

aaron
02-12-2007, 05:58 PM
Saratoga Guy-
As I see it,I think its time for a change and you don't. I think on track racing in NY has bottomed out under NYRA. Can another entity improve it ? I don't know,but if you attended races in NY,other than Saratoga you probably would want another management team.
As for the on track product,I don't have a problem with it,but it has steadily declined the last couple of years.
Saratoga other than the major stake races is not much different than Belmont.The inner track in the winter has declined in quality.More statebred races and MDN claiming races.
With that said,I still like playing the circuit.

Indulto
02-12-2007, 06:00 PM
... But you think maybe it's time for a fresh approach. Hmmm, why weren't these "new shooters" so interested in showing off their racing-track acumen when -- oh, I don't know, let's say Hollywood or Ellis Park came up for sale.

... The bidding front-runner right now has said that they will run slots "for-profit" and racing "not-for-profit". That should really warm the hearts of racing fans (sarcasm intended).

Imagine a business entity with two parts, one for-profit, the other not-for-profit. Where do you think their time, energy, and investment will be focused?

... NYRA isn't perfect. But of the bidders with track records, NYRA's is just as good. Of the bidders without track records -- well, better the devil you know, than the devil you don't know...

I have very few complaints actually with the product NYRA puts out. And if they hadn't been obviously blocked from installing slots over the past couple of years we wouldn't be having this conversation.SG,
I like your new tone. You sound as if you have downstate roots. ;)

Excellent point re: focus, but just so we know that you're not a "homer," throw us a bone and share your "complaints" with this "august" board. :D

aaron
02-12-2007, 06:04 PM
Alysheba88
NYRA did something that caused them to fall out of favor with the politicians.What that might be,I have no idea. They had been in favor for at least 35-40 years.

alysheba88
02-12-2007, 06:04 PM
Saratoga Guy-
As I see it,I think its time for a change and you don't. I think on track racing in NY has bottomed out under NYRA. Can another entity improve it ? I don't know,but if you attended races in NY,other than Saratoga you probably would want another management team.
As for the on track product,I don't have a problem with it,but it has steadily declined the last couple of years.
Saratoga other than the major stake races is not much different than Belmont.The inner track in the winter has declined in quality.More statebred races and MDN claiming races.
With that said,I still like playing the circuit.

I am not sure how you can say the inner track has declined in quality. The winter Aqueduct meet the last few years has been dramatically improved from prior years. Aqueduct racing as a whole has improved with larger more competitive fields. The track itself is far nicer place to go now than say 10 years ago.

Current management has consistently acted in the best interest of players. They want to lower takeout further but can't. Do you think other track management will seek lower takeout?

aaron
02-12-2007, 06:16 PM
Alysheba88-
Now I'm worried about you." The track itself is a far nicer place to go now than say 10 years ago." You can't be talking about Belmont and Aqueduct.
They haven't cleaned the seats in the grandstand in many years.Players who used to go to Aqueduct every day are now at otb's or betting from home because of the decline in the facility.
Belmont is still passable,but is not kept as well as it was kept 10 years ago.It needs to be upgraded.

alysheba88
02-12-2007, 06:38 PM
Alysheba88-
Now I'm worried about you." The track itself is a far nicer place to go now than say 10 years ago." You can't be talking about Belmont and Aqueduct.
They haven't cleaned the seats in the grandstand in many years.Players who used to go to Aqueduct every day are now at otb's or betting from home because of the decline in the facility.
Belmont is still passable,but is not kept as well as it was kept 10 years ago.It needs to be upgraded.

I am very serious. I have been going to Aqueduct for ten years and it is a much nicer environment than before. You can actually leave the place without getting mugged. It is much cleaner, the scratch board is prominent, and ample seating.

Belmont is still a very very nice track. Nicest in the country in my opinion.

I bet from home primarily now out of convenience but I still make the trek out to Aqueduct from NJ in the spring and fall. Would not do it if I didnt think it was a good environment

aaron
02-12-2007, 06:47 PM
Alysheba88
I live 15 minutes from Belmont and about 20 minutes from Aqueduct. I used to go to Aqueduct and Belmont 3-4 days a week. I now don't go to Aqueduct at all. I probably still go to Belmont.
By the way I never had a problem as far as getting mugged at Aqueduct.The reason I stopped going is because I find the enviroment depressing.

alysheba88
02-12-2007, 06:49 PM
Alysheba88
I live 15 minutes from Belmont and about 20 minutes from Aqueduct. I used to go to Aqueduct and Belmont 3-4 days a week. I now don't go to Aqueduct at all. I probably still go to Belmont.
By the way I never had a problem as far as getting mugged at Aqueduct.The reason I stopped going is because I find the enviroment depressing.

I guess NYRA should just kick out all the hard core bettors who make you depressed. Because thats what you are really talking about in the end.

saratoga guy
02-12-2007, 07:01 PM
Saratoga Guy-
As I see it,I think its time for a change and you don't. I think on track racing in NY has bottomed out under NYRA. Can another entity improve it ?

I'm all for change -- if there's really some reason to believe it will mean an improvement.

But why should we believe that?

Just looking around the country at other track managements it's hard to see any reason to believe that someone out there has a magic wand.

As stated, Churchill has sold tracks in tha past few years, unable to make them work, and their new Derby/Oaks seat license plan is clearly not fan-friendly. Magna has experience financial problems at least on par with NYRA, if not worse. And their re-do of Gulfstream was not considered racing fan-friendly.

Who or what among the other two bidders makes you believe they have the panacea you are looking for?

At the very least we know that NYRa is in it for the racing -- as opposed to the slots. Do you really believe the other two bidders would be involved if not for the slots?

aaron
02-12-2007, 07:06 PM
Alysheba88
You don't get it.Go to Aqueduct during the week and see a ghost town. Walk out to watch a race with the other 10 people on the 3rd floor of the grandstand.
I guess you don't realize how great it used to be to go to the track

alysheba88
02-12-2007, 07:09 PM
Alysheba88
You don't get it.Go to Aqueduct during the week and see a ghost town. Walk out to watch a race with the other 10 people on the 3rd floor of the grandstand.
I guess you don't realize how great it used to be to go to the track

If your complaint is racing isnt like the good old days and attendance, especially during the week is way down, I dont think anyone on earth would disagree.

aaron
02-12-2007, 07:17 PM
Saratoga Guy-
I don't believe any entity would be involved if it weren't for slots.The reason for change is that when management fails consistently over a period of years to improve the product,some new business plan might improve the product.

alysheba88
02-12-2007, 07:19 PM
The "new business plan" is slots!

aaron
02-12-2007, 07:23 PM
We all know the new business plan is slots. If the slots are run by MGM/Mirage, I would not worry about that part of the business.

saratoga guy
02-12-2007, 08:20 PM
Saratoga Guy-
I don't believe any entity would be involved if it weren't for slots.The reason for change is that when management fails consistently over a period of years to improve the product,some new business plan might improve the product.

That sounds wonderful, but again, what makes you think the two other bidders offer anything to "improve the product"?

In retail you can point to Wal-Mart and say, "They're successful."

In chain food/drink operations you can point to Starbucks and say they've done things that have been successful over the past few years.

In hi-tech you can point to Apple and say they innovated and succeeded with the iPod.

But where is the innovation and success with racetrack management.

Again, you say, "...when management fails consistently over a period of years to improve the product..." and point to NYRA -- but the story is the same all over!

It's sounds great to say new management will bring change -- but what makes you believe that will be true -- especially when everything points in the opposite direction?

And if your feeling is simply that new management might bring change -- is it really wise to roll the dice like that in regard to a twenty year commitment?

aaron
02-12-2007, 08:35 PM
Personally, I don't think the 2 other bidders will necessarily improve the product. I believe the process will have more than just the 2 bidders and NYRA. Hopefully, they'll open up the process because they know there are better bids out there. Didn't the disqualified Australian company offer a larger bid ? Since the bids are non binding,this is possiable. I'm not saying any new company will improve racing.I just think they have a better chance than a company whose track record is one of failure.

saratoga guy
02-13-2007, 12:13 AM
I just think they have a better chance than a company whose track record is one of failure.

You're repeating the same point over and over -- which forces me to repeat mine:

No entity would have succeeded under the rules and regs NYRA has labored under for the past few years.

The other major players on the American racing scene (Magna, Churchill) have faced many of the same struggles as NYRA and not performed noticeably better.

So to point to a company and say, "Look, they failed," when any organization would have been compromised unxer the circumstances -- and to speculate that a new face will improve things, despite being unable to point to any entity among the potential bidders that has demonstrated any such ability... Well, again, you can say it all you want, but saying it and hoping for it isn't much to hang your hat on for the next twenty years.

It would be one thing if there was a bidder that could point to their resume and show that they ran racing at a venue or venues and were successful in bucking the current trends in racing. Handle up. Attendance up. Customer satisfaction high.

But that's simply not the case.

So you're left saying you want change because you hope it will lead to improvements. Good luck.

Indulto
02-13-2007, 02:18 AM
... So you're left saying you want change because you hope it will lead to improvements. Good luck.SG,
Activities in Albany last week suggest that Spitzer is unlikely to willingly allow the NYRA to continue because doing so might compromise his “reform” agenda. Bruno still supports change so far and though quickSilver is unpredictable at this point, it seems safe to assume that his committee appointees would not have voted for change if he had been opposed it. So, unless NYRA is found to own the land, change seems highly likely. Which is why it was actually business acumen the NYRA demonstrated when it declared bankruptcy.

While I agree that a redefined NYRA with more reasonable fiscal and legislative support appears no less worthy of succeeding the old NYRA than any of the other 3 franchise seekers, what exactly are the potential drawbacks you see to changing operators given that preservation of Saratoga’s historical, physical, and financial status will surely be guaranteed? Certainly competent existing NYRA employees will go to work either for the new operation or for someone else.

I’ve personally survived some new management takeovers and not others. Sometimes the resulting entity succeeded, sometimes not. Either way, change was never fun, but life went on. What I am most interested in learning from the bidder proposals is how the OTBs will be integrated into the new operation.

aaron
02-13-2007, 09:02 AM
Saratoga Guy-
NYRA has not failed because of rules and regulations of the last few years. They have failed for 30 years,well before the constraits of the last few years. If they had not been incompetent for all those previous years,perhaps the constraits of the last few years would not have occurred.
In other countries racing is still flourshing,maybe a new entity will found a better model to follow.

alysheba88
02-13-2007, 09:32 AM
Saratoga Guy-
NYRA has not failed because of rules and regulations of the last few years. They have failed for 30 years,well before the constraits of the last few years. If they had not been incompetent for all those previous years,perhaps the constraits of the last few years would not have occurred.
In other countries racing is still flourshing,maybe a new entity will found a better model to follow.

You do understand that in other countries takeout, drug rules, rules on jockey's trying, taxation are all different? And are factors? But I am assuming you feel thats NYRA's fault also (by the way NYRA has put much more teeth into their drug policies than most other jurisdictions in the US)

aaron
02-13-2007, 09:55 AM
No,
I understand that the rules are different in other countries,and all the problems with racing in ny were not caused by NYRA.
You would have to admit if NYRA did not give in on allowing lasix,perhaps racing in NY would have been better off. To their credit they were the last entity to allow lasix,but they caved in and field size did not improve. In the last few years they put in detention barns.Nothing has changed the same trainers are still winning.If NYRA had been leader in reform instead of a follower,perhaps racing in NY would have fared better.
Why not suspend trainers for a year after the 1st infraction ?My biggest problem with NYRA is that everything they do is for cosmetic purposes.
The people in charge of racing in NY continue to act as if nothing has changed on the racing landscape in the last 30 years.They run the track for themselves,not taking into account their customers.
Also,remember this is the entity that let Kenny Noe run the track into the ground and then gave him a sweetheart deal to retire.
What has the NYRA done to improve racing ? I just don't consider it a great accomplishment that they are able 9 races a day and lose money while doing this. To show a profit NYRA needs slots,so they are no different than the other bidders in that respect.

PaceAdvantage
02-13-2007, 10:09 AM
When Saratoga Guy writes about "rules and regulations" I don't think he's writing in terms of the past couple of years. I believe he means the rules and regulations that have hampered NYRA since the beginning. Their operating environment that everyone agrees must be changed for whatever entity wins the franchise, is partly to blame for what has happened to NY racing.

It's this operating environment, created over 50 years ago, that legally prevents them from showing a profit, as you keep writing about in your posts....the best NYRA can do is not lose any money....anything beyond break even must be redistributed.

Then again, Magna would love to be able to just "break even" at this point as well, but that's for another thread.

alysheba88
02-13-2007, 10:13 AM
They have been a leader when it comes to reducing takeout.

Compare their drug policies to Kentucky and California (both of which are an utter joke)

Compare the quality of their racing to California

If you are going to argue Kenny Noe was bad no one is really going to disagree. But he isnt running the place now.

alysheba88
02-13-2007, 10:15 AM
When Saratoga Guy writes about "rules and regulations" I don't think he's writing in terms of the past couple of years. I believe he means the rules and regulations that have hampered NYRA since the beginning. Their operating environment that everyone agrees must be changed for whatever entity wins the franchise, is partly to blame for what has happened to NY racing.

It's this operating environment, created over 50 years ago, that legally prevents them from showing a profit, as you keep writing about in your posts....the best NYRA can do is not lose any money....anything beyond break even must be redistributed.

Then again, Magna would love to be able to just "break even" at this point as well, but that's for another thread.


Also, lets not forget the whole OTB disaster. From the way they were established it was inevitable we'd get where we are now. OTB's and NYRA have been competiting entities from day one. Which is assinine. Dont think any other state has such a dysfunctional set up. Any player who hates NYRA should ask themselves if they want the folks running the OTB's in control of the track as well

aaron
02-13-2007, 11:23 AM
No matter who runs the track. It would definately be a positive to have the track and otb's under one umbrella. Unfortunately, I don't think this will happen, no matter who gets the franchise.

Indulto
02-14-2007, 12:40 AM
Making sense of selection nonsense By PAUL POST, The Saratogian 02/13/2007
http://www.saratogian.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17847652&BRD=1169&PAG=461&dept_id=602475&rfi=6 (http://www.saratogian.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17847652&BRD=1169&PAG=461&dept_id=602475&rfi=6)
…The state, it seems, is waiting for the courts to rule on NYRA's land issue before tackling the job of naming a new franchisee. And the state must not only scrutinize each firm's proposal, but might have to rewrite the entire racing law to reflect a change in business models from a non-profit to a for-profit venture. Maybe Excelsior had the right game plan all along by proposing to keep racing non-profit.

Maintaining the non-profit model, perhaps Excelsior just wanted to save state legislators a lot of work. After all, where would Messrs. Silver and Bruno rather be this summer? Stuck inside the Capitol, hammering out contentious legislation, or on some fairway or at the track - cajoling with people who help keep them in power.

Indulto
02-22-2007, 08:07 AM
Times Union exclusive: Bruno's son shares office with racing lobbyist
Kenneth R. Bruno law practice is located in same suite as advocate for state track franchise
By BRENDAN J. LYONS, Senior writer First published: Thursday, February 22, 2007
http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=565392&category=FRONTPG&BCCode=HOME&newsdate=2/22/2007 (http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=565392&category=FRONTPG&BCCode=HOME&newsdate=2/22/2007)
ALBANY -- The younger son of Senate Majority Leader Joseph L. Bruno shares an office with the lobbyist for one of four groups that are vying for New York's lucrative horse racing franchise. R. Bruno's one-man law practice is located in the same downtown suite as Frederico G. Polsinelli Jr., the registered lobbyist for Capital Play, an Australian consortium that is pressuring the Legislature to consider its bid for the franchise. Bruno's father has publicly called on the state to consider the firm's bid, even though Capital Play had been disqualified for missing a deadline.CapitalPlay Consortium Applauds Governor's Fresh Look at Bidding for New York Racing Franchise
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/02-21-2007/0004532139&EDATE (http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/02-21-2007/0004532139&EDATE)=
… CapitalPlay Consortium, one of the four bidders for the New York State Racing Franchise said it was delighted by news today that Gov. Eliot Spitzer wouldn't be bound by a Pataki committee's recommendation to award the franchise to Excelsior Racing.… "We intend to work closely with the OTB network to ensure that the Racetracks and the Distribution Network are fully aligned to enhance the experience for all racing fans and to maximize the return to all stakeholders including horsemen and governments."I didn't add this to Big Mack's thread since they weren't part of the Committee's evaluation and the Bruno connection is an extension of the political turmoil being tracked here.

PaceAdvantage
02-22-2007, 09:45 PM
You'd think they would work hard to avoid some of the obvious conflicts of interest....oh well....nobody has ever accused a politician (or a politician's son) of being a genius, as far as I know.

highnote
02-24-2007, 01:44 PM
http://www.drf.com/news/article/82792.html

Naturally, a major topic of discussion was the construction of a casino with 4,500 slot machines at Aqueduct and the possibility of a casino being legalized at Belmont Park. Excelsior officials made it clear they want to build elaborate facilities that would include retail outlets, high-class restaurants, and a theater/nightclub.

"We're talking about building this unbelievable destination," said Fields, the co-developer of the Seminole Hard Rock Hotel and Casinos located in Tampa and Hollywood, Fla. "We're going to drive people in because we're going to have the best restaurants, the best theaters, the best stores - there's going to be excitement. We're going to drive 30,000 people a day through there - some of them, by the way, are going to go for the slots, and lots of them are not. We're going to be driving people in; they're going to sample the horse product. They're going to come back because the horse product is so exciting."

If this kind of stuff happens I will be sure NOT to visit Belmont or Aqueduct again. I have no interest in this stuff.

I used to love to go to Belmont for the racing. This other stuff is a big distraction.

They should just build a slot parlor away from the track and use the slot money to subsidize the racing. Everything else ruins the racing product because it will distract from the racing environment.

Oh well. I don't bet Belmont anyway, so I guess it's a moot.

Hopefully, they won't build a big casino or slot parlor on the Saratoga property. The Spa is the only NY race track I'm interested in visiting. It will be a sad day if they change the ambiance of Saratoga Racetrack.

If they put a casino in the downtown area, that's fine. They can rake off some of the money and improve the racetrack. But I hope to God they don't ruin the racetrack property with a slot parlor.

Indulto
02-24-2007, 06:06 PM
... Hopefully, they won't build a big casino or slot parlor on the Saratoga property. The Spa is the only NY race track I'm interested in visiting. It will be a sad day if they change the ambiance of Saratoga Racetrack.

If they put a casino in the downtown area, that's fine. They can rake off some of the money and improve the racetrack. But I hope to God they don't ruin the racetrack property with a slot parlor.The likelihood that Saratoga will become the last bastion of racing as most fondly remember it increases daily. Santa Anita is about to get a similar environmental "enhancement."

What is your take on this development:Breakdowns put spotlight back on synthetic surface By STEVE ANDERSEN
http://www.drf.com/news/article/82635.html (http://www.drf.com/news/article/82635.html)

... The track decided to carry over $400,000 in purses to the 2007 fall meeting after consulting with the Thoroughbred Owners of California. Hollywood Park is not offering simulcasting of the lucrative Breeders' Cup program this year, a day that generates about $400,000 in purse money, Panza said.

The Breeders' Cup simulcast will be held during the Oak Tree at Santa Anita meeting this October.

highnote
02-24-2007, 06:23 PM
I wouldn't mind if Saratoga installed a synthetic track. It's all about the racing. The track composition is not that important to me.

Same with the KY Derby. I have no problem with it being contested over a synthetic track.

What if the Preakness would have been run over an all weather surface? Would Barbaro have broken his leg?

Indulto
02-24-2007, 06:46 PM
I wouldn't mind if Saratoga installed a synthetic track. It's all about the racing. The track composition is not that important to me.

Same with the KY Derby. I have no problem with it being contested over a synthetic track.

What if the Preakness would have been run over an all weather surface? Would Barbaro have broken his leg?I agree with you, but I was really more concerned about the fact that a major venue would not be carrying the BC signal.

Hollywood attracted more handle with the synthetic surface, but far fewer fans in attendance as was pointedly discussed in that CHRB board meeting transcript I referenced in the "What's wrong .." thread.

HOL on BC day last year was a ghost town even with live racing.

highnote
02-25-2007, 03:15 AM
I agree with you, but I was really more concerned about the fact that a major venue would not be carrying the BC signal.


Will HOL still offer simulcasting from other tracks on BC day?

HOL on BC day last year was a ghost town even with live racing.

I had lunch at the Santa Anita Turf Club last Mon and Tue and it was a ghost town, too, even with live racing. Hardly anyone at the tables. Short betting lines. We practically had the place to ourselves.

The official attendance was 15,000. I would not be surprised if there were only 1,500.

What a great space the Palms room is. Being there was like stepping back into a different era. It must have been a great place in its day. Hell, it still is, now. I could sit there on the comfy sofas or at the huge bar and be content all day long.

The various eccentric characters was the best part. It was like being on some old Humphrey Bogart movie set. I expected Bing Crosby to walk through at any time.

I did see Dick Van Patton -- close, but no cigar. :D

Indulto
02-26-2007, 12:42 AM
Will HOL still offer simulcasting from other tracks on BC day?Still trying to find out.
I had lunch at the Santa Anita Turf Club last Mon and Tue and it was a ghost town, too, even with live racing. Hardly anyone at the tables. Short betting lines. We practically had the place to ourselves.

The official attendance was 15,000. I would not be surprised if there were only 1,500.

What a great space the Palms room is. Being there was like stepping back into a different era. It must have been a great place in its day. Hell, it still is, now. I could sit there on the comfy sofas or at the huge bar and be content all day long.It is beautiful. I prefer the saddling/paddock area, and have been happy as a clam since they installed the outdoor tables between the paddock and the grandstand.The various eccentric characters was the best part. It was like being on some old Humphrey Bogart movie set. I expected Bing Crosby to walk through at any time.

I did see Dick Van Patton -- close, but no cigar. :DAs an eccentric character myself, I'd rather see stars. The best place I've found for that in all of L.A. is a 24-hour newsstand in Sherman Oaks. ;)

alysheba88
02-26-2007, 11:36 AM
Did anyone catch the article in which in examining the bids Empire calls for a takeout increase across the board?

aaron
02-26-2007, 12:07 PM
Hopefully, the raise in takeout will eliminate empire,but it probably won't.

Indulto
02-27-2007, 06:00 AM
http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=566914&category=FRONTPG&BCCode=HOME&newsdate=2/27/2007 (http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=566914&category=FRONTPG&BCCode=HOME&newsdate=2/27/2007)
Spitzer plans new racing bid format

Governor wins support of Bruno, Silver for revamped review process of offers to run state franchise

By James M. Odato

ALBANY -- Gov. Eliot Spitzer plans to announce a new public review process to consider bids for the state horse racing franchise.

Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver, D-Manhattan, and Senate Majority Leader Joseph L. Bruno, R-Brunswick, supported the additional analysis. Bruno said it may make sense to have all bids worked into one ideal proposal.

…"There will be a process that will be open, that will permit full public review of what has occurred, and we will get quickly to the right decision," said Spitzer. "It will be a process that will let the right questions be asked. It is a major industry that should be jump-started in this state.'

… Silver said Spitzer is expected to talk to all the bidders.I believe Spitzer will come up with a plan relatively soon, but I suspect it will take a while before the Turbulent Trio come to any agreement.

I don't think it looks good for MGM Grand.

cj
02-27-2007, 06:22 AM
You can almost hear the Looney Toons theme playing in the background.

Indulto
02-27-2007, 06:50 AM
You can almost hear the Looney Toons theme playing in the background.:lol:

I think Daffy and Elmer would be right at home in either Albany or Sacramento. :D

highnote
02-28-2007, 02:24 PM
What if the state said, OK NYRA you own the property, but we're not going to renew your racing franchise license.

Then NYRA decides to sell the land. Who gets the money from the sale of the property and buildings?

Obviously NYRA. But who is NYRA? The board of directors? The employees? The state?

The money would have to go somewhere.

Indulto
02-28-2007, 04:26 PM
http://www.drf.com/news/article/82877.html (http://www.drf.com/news/article/82877.html)
Spitzer creates franchise panel; NYRA gets loan
By MATT HEGARTY

… The panel will be chaired by Spitzer's special counsel, Richard Rifkin, and will include members of the State Racing and Wagering Board, Empire State Development Corp., and the state's Division of Budget. It will provide Spitzer with an analysis of the proposals of any bidding entities that are "interested in operating the tracks."
http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=37780 (http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=37780)
Panel Created to Evaluate Groups Seeking New York Franchise
by Tom Precious

… The panel, created by the state’s new governor, Democrat Eliot Spitzer, will not limit the public sessions to just those three groups that formally bid on the franchise now held by NYRA. While Spitzer has said he does not believe the entire process needs to be re-bid, opening the public process to others could, in the end, have the effect of re-starting the franchise renewal process.

… The new panel is chaired by Richard Rifkin, Spitzer’s special counsel whose menu of policy areas include racing and wagering issues. “Public confidence in this process will be anchored by transparency. The primary standard for selection will be an organization’s integrity and its ability to advance New York racing and the state’s interest,’’ Rifkin said.Lots of accounting types there suggesting a bottom line decision. Where's Arthur Anderson? ;)

Obviously any prior player input was wasted. Anybody think it would do any good this time around?

I wonder where Spitzer will weigh in on takeout and withholding? Will he take the Baeza way out? :D

highnote
02-28-2007, 04:52 PM
Maybe with the loan NYRA will pay Lien?

Indulto
02-28-2007, 05:35 PM
Maybe with the loan NYRA will pay Lien?I can't imagine Spitzer loaning the NYRA money to pay Mr. Dahlman. If it's true that LGR is still sending money to NYRA, it kind of weakens the moral imperative though, of course, not the legal one.

I doubt LGR will get stiffed, but I would bet others will get theirs first.

Indulto
02-28-2007, 06:54 PM
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newyork/ny-bc-ny--racingfranchise0228feb28,0,4962511.story?coll=ny-region-apnewyork (http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newyork/ny-bc-ny--racingfranchise0228feb28,0,4962511.story?coll=ny-region-apnewyork)
Spitzer details new, public process to pick racing franchise
By MICHAEL GORMLEY

ALBANY, N.Y. -- The public will have a chance to watch how the state chooses the group that will run thoroughbred horse racing in New York.

… Proposals will be accepted until March 6.

… Senate Majority Leader Joseph Bruno on Wednesday supported the public meetings, saying competing proposals could be combined.

"We talked about that to the governor," Bruno said. "You take the best of what's out there, you put together a package, and then see who wants to play."Let me get this straight.

1) Collect new and revised proposals.
2) Create new proposal with best from all
3) Re-bid new proposal.
4) Losers go their merry way? OR … The pie is split more than one way?

Start the music, cj, here comes Foghorn Leghorn. :lol:

Indulto
03-01-2007, 04:25 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/columns/story?columnist=finley_bill&id=2784375 (http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/horse/columns/story?columnist=finley_bill&id=2784375)
Harder than it should be
By Bill Finley

… The thing is a mess, but it doesn't have to be. The first step toward a solution is to stop pretending that any of this has anything to do with horse racing. It's all about slot machines because slots mean money, and lots of it. Horse racing in New York, from a financial standpoint, has proven to be a big loser, which is the reason why NYRA is bankrupt. If slots weren't part of the equation, it's likely that NYRA would be the only group interested in the franchise.

… As for the casino, an outside operator isn't necessary. In New York, racetrack slots are run under the auspices of the state lottery commission. Why can't the lottery commission not only oversee the slots at Aqueduct and, possibly, Belmont, but run the entire show?

… His panel needs to think outside the box and consider scenarios that will benefit not just the state and whomever is set to get rich running these casinos but also the struggling sport of horse racing in New York. It needs to separate the casino from the racetracks, a move that will make the picture a lot more clear. NYRA is far from perfect, but it represents the chance for horse racing to flourish in New York.Very good column. He makes a lot of sense. Others have called for separation as well. New Yorkers supporting that approach might do well to E-mail their representatives. Too bad the lottery commission is unlikely to submit a bid by the 6th.

Indulto
03-07-2007, 07:13 PM
http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=37893 (http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=37893)

Two New Groups Join New York Franchise Quest
by Tom Precious

Two new groups, including a mystery entity, have joined the process to try to win the state Thoroughbred racetrack franchise now held by the New York Racing Association.

… The two new companies interested in the franchise are Catskill Off-Track Betting Corp., which is considered a long-shot by industry insiders but could merge with one of the other bidding groups, and Thoroughbred Racing NY, whose members were not yet revealed. Sid Davidoff, an influential lobbyist in New York, is involved in representing the group. He was not immediately available for comment.Wasn’t Catskill OTB the target of the Drexel frat boys of “Fix-Six” fame?

alysheba88
03-07-2007, 07:55 PM
http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=37893 (http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=37893)

Wasn’t Catskill OTB the target of the Drexel frat boys of “Fix-Six” fame?


Not only that they vehemently defended the fixers and demanded they be paid for quite some time initially

Indulto
03-07-2007, 10:08 PM
Not only that they vehemently defended the fixers and demanded they be paid for quite some time initiallyIs it still being run by Donald Groth? If so, Crist should have a field day with him this weekend that even Mary Lou could enjoy.:D

Indulto
03-12-2007, 01:43 AM
(http://www.saratogian.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18058396&BRD=1169&PAG=461&dept_id=602469&rfi=6)http://www.saratogian.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18058396&BRD=1169&PAG=461&dept_id=602469&rfi=6 (http://www.saratogian.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18058396&BRD=1169&PAG=461&dept_id=602469&rfi=6)


Racing panelist charges new process unfair By PAUL POST

… "I don't think it's fair to the original bidders," said Gary Pretlow, D-Yonkers, an ad hoc panel member and chairman of the state Assembly's Racing and Wagering Committee. "Where were they a year ago? The bidders, all of them including NYRA, did a lot of work.

… Each of the original bidders' proposals was made public two weeks ago, and a new firm could simply pick and choose the best elements from each of them. "Exactly," Pretlow said.

Pretlow said he met with Gov. Eliot Spitzer on Wednesday and has asked to be on the governor's new panel that will review each firm's proposals in a series of public presentations this spring. Dates for those meetings have yet to be set.

… Spokesman Peter Crouse said Thoroughbred Racing-NY also includes a major racetrack operator, which he declined to name. "That causes some degree of concern," said Jack Knowlton of Saratoga Springs, an ad hoc committee member and managing partner of Sackatoga Stable. http://www.nypost.com/seven/03092007/sports/two_new_bids_join_race_sports_ed_fountaine.htm (http://www.nypost.com/seven/03092007/sports/two_new_bids_join_race_sports_ed_fountaine.htm)

TWO NEW BIDS JOIN RACE By ED FOUNTAINE

... Whoever the racetrack operator is, Wynn and his partners have deep pockets and a successful track record in the gambling industry.

… As for Catskill OTB, its entry could be a forerunner to the formation of a public benefit corporation in which the state itself would take over the racing franchise.

"The previous administration did not want to consider that, but I believe this administration will," said Don Groth, president of Catskill OTB.

… New York City OTB president Ray Casey said he has discussed at length the advantages of a public benefit corporation taking over the racing franchise, and while NYC OTB isn't partnered with Catskill OTB at this point, Casey hasn't ruled it out.

the little guy
03-12-2007, 01:57 AM
Catskill is only involved so that OTB can feel like they have some involvement in the decision.....and rightfully so considering how much they have given to racing over the years. For example, without them we could have had a lower takeout.

Is it just me or does it feel like this has been going on forever?

Indulto
03-22-2007, 03:31 AM
http://www.newsday.com/sports/columnists/ny-spmoran0322,0,3252818.column?coll=ny-sports-columnists (http://www.newsday.com/sports/columnists/ny-spmoran0322,0,3252818.column?coll=ny-sports-columnists)
NYRA standing at critical juncture by Paul Moran

… Unless NYRA retains the franchise, which many believe is the most likely result of the protracted competition, it will be impossible to replace Nader, who moves on to a situation 180 degrees removed from the one he leaves. The Hong Kong Jockey Club is the blueprint for an effective, tightly run, not-for-profit racing organization that controls every form of legal gambling in the region and operates without competition in a market of enthusiastic gamblers. Here, competition for the attention of gamblers abounds.Does anybody else interpret the above as saying that many people believe NYRA will retain the franchise and that only in that scenario could Nader be replaced? :confused:

Indulto
03-27-2007, 12:06 PM
http://albany.bizjournals.com/albany/stories/2007/03/26/daily12.html (http://albany.bizjournals.com/albany/stories/2007/03/26/daily12.html)

NY Farm Bureau backs Empire Racing's bid for state's race track franchise

… The Farm Bureau board of directors voted in favor of Empire Racing because the group is developing a program that will provide farmers with the education and resources needed to operate horse breeding operations. Empire has also promised to open up the tracks to all hay producers and distributors, which NYRA has not done, Lincoln said.

Empire has also promised to invest $20 million in Cornell University's equine drug-testing facility and provide another $1 million to enhance the university's research on horses. Another $1 million would be spent to help SUNY Morrisville build an Equine Rehabilitation and Physiology Center at its campus.

… The New York Thoroughbred Horsemen's Association, which represents 6,000 owners, trainers, and farmers, has also endorsed the Empire Racing bid.It appears that Empire will take care of everyone except ... the horseplayer.

Someone please explain to me why a vendor group has more influence than the customers? :confused:

the Bid
03-27-2007, 01:12 PM
Despite the NYTHA support of Empire, a significant percentage of the most influential of their membership support Excelsior.

Indulto
03-30-2007, 12:22 AM
http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=38210 (http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=38210)

Despite Rumors, Excelsior Says Franchise Bid on Track by Tom Precious

… Several media reports March 29 said Swindal, a top Yankees executive, is on his way out as the team’s heir apparent to George Steinbrenner following revelations that his daughter, Jennifer Steinbrenner, is divorcing Swindal after 23 years of marriage. Media reports said the split was a mutual decision.

Excelsior officials sought to squash speculation that Swindal or the Steinbrenner family, and possibly the entire Excelsior Racing team, was dropping out of the process to select a new franchise holder to run Aqueduct, Belmont Park, and Saratoga.At least now we can transfer the proceedings from the category of circus to soap opera.

PaceAdvantage
03-30-2007, 11:26 PM
I would think this would be a benefit to Excelsior. With Swindal disconnected from the Yankees, it removes that "conflict of interest" between MLB and gambling that had people talking a little bit ago (no official comment ever came from the Commissioner's office, although they said they were "looking into it" at the time).

Indulto
03-31-2007, 03:42 AM
I would think this would be a benefit to Excelsior. With Swindal disconnected from the Yankees, it removes that "conflict of interest" between MLB and gambling that had people talking a little bit ago (no official comment ever came from the Commissioner's office, although they said they were "looking into it" at the time).I doubt Albany will overlook the personal difficulties and loss of political/financial influence anticipated for this Excelsior principal. Plus it doesn't resolve the conflict of interest issue regarding the Governor's close ties to the other Excelsior principal.

IMO this latest development could work in NYRA's favor, but not for their current executives. Spitzer's best move now might be to retain an NYRA run by leadership he can endorse. He likes blue-ribbon panel selections even though it didn't work in replacing the State Comptroller. It might work better in selecting replacements for Nader who is already leaving and Hayward who may have to in order to preserve the institution.

The right individuals with Spitzer's confidence should be more likely to influence favorable changes to NY racing legislation while ensuring that a for-profit model doesn't reduce income to the state or divert money from operations and capital improvements, and resolving the OTB impasse.

How can Spitzer justify rewarding managment that defied him on the land issue, declared bankruptcy, and set a precendent for not paying off winners.

Indulto
04-01-2007, 04:00 PM
http://cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/story/10102175 (http://cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/story/10102175)
Steinbrenner family pulls out of New York racing bid
… "The Steinbrenner family and all of their related entities will withdraw from the Excelsior bid," family spokesman Howard Rubenstein said Sunday. "The reason is to pursue other opportunities."

… Rubenstein also said Tishman-Speyer, part of the Excelsior group, will withdraw from the bidding. Tisham-Speyer Properties is a major New York developer which is part owner of Rockefeller Center and has investments in other landmark properties.

Excelsior intends to reorganize.

"Our bid is continuing as planned," Excelsior spokeswoman Katie Burke said. "There are going to be some considerable changes in the next few days."

PaceAdvantage
04-02-2007, 01:25 AM
Man this is comical.....

Soon NYRA is going to be the only bidder left....LOL

highnote
04-02-2007, 02:09 AM
Man this is comical.....

Soon NYRA is going to be the only bidder left....LOL


Given that Spitzer has given himself the option of rejecting any bidder for any reason NYRA might keep the franchise by default.

Indulto
04-02-2007, 12:57 PM
This has all been said before, but perhaps not as entertainingly:

http://www.star-gazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070402/UPDATE/304020019 (http://www.star-gazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070402/UPDATE/304020019)

Slot machines are the pot at the end of the racing rainbow by Yancy Roy… NYRA not only is in bankruptcy but also has come under fire for a passel of scandals, including awarding no-bid contracts to relatives of executives, failing to notice identity theft at the betting windows and larding up horses with extra weight to carry.

Yet some say, despite the past problems, NYRA is the most qualified to run racing.

… “Given the way things have been, no one is making money from operating a racetrack,” Liebman said.

In a recent report, Liebman makes clear slots do almost nothing to promote horse racing: “By now, nobody even argues this point. There is no synergy. All there is, is subsidy.”

This underscores the bottom line in this drama, … this is about slots, not horse racing. If it were just about racing — or the notion that we’re on the verge of a racing revival —there wouldn’t be as much interest or money thrown around.

highnote
04-02-2007, 01:57 PM
This has all been said before, but perhaps not as entertainingly:



If you look at the early history of racing and gambling houses in America the owners were tough, shrewd, fearless and politically connected.

John Morrissey was instrumental in starting Saratoga Racecourse. He owned 5 gambling houses in Manhattan, was a world champion boxer and connected to Tamanny politics.

It is probably a little different today because there are big corporations involved. But I still think we can look at history to get a clue how this might shake out.

Is Capital Play politically connected enough to win the slot prize? Hard to know for sure, but given that they're Australian it seems like they would only have an outside chance.

Excelsior took a big blow with Swindal / Steinbrenner breakup, but they seem like they are well-connected to NY politics.

Empire, the partnership of Churchill and Magna, look formidable. But are they as well connected to NY politics as Excelsior?

What about NYRA? Seems like they are too much in flux. There has been no stability at the top. What about the members of the board of directors of NYRA? They must be well connected.

Seems like Excelsior and NYRA are the most politically connected.

I think this eventually comes down politics.

Even if Capital or Empire have the best presentations, if they don't have the political backing, a more politically connected entity with an inferior plan could win the bid.

This kind of fight has been happening over and over again since the founding of this country.

I don't know who is going to win, but I think history can shed light on the eventual outcome.

Indulto
04-04-2007, 01:19 AM
http://www.saratogian.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18165852&BRD=1169&PAG=461&dept_id=602469&rfi=6 (http://www.saratogian.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18165852&BRD=1169&PAG=461&dept_id=602469&rfi=6)
Report says OTB should get VLT revenues By PAUL POST
… "NYCOTB - A Plan for Transformation and Growth,” … provides a blueprint for the industry's future that calls for increasing wagering opportunities, both on-line and with new betting facilities, while developing new generations of fans by making the sport fun to people of all ages.

… Casey said he's discussed the possibility of having OTB and the tracks merge with each potential operator.

"We've made that offer to all the bidders," he said.

… The state Legislature could hold the key to OTB merging or at least working more closely with the new racetrack operator, Casey said.

"The laws are so restrictive that they don't allow for better cooperation," he said.What about Catskill, Suffolk, etc.?

Indulto
04-04-2007, 09:50 PM
http://blogs.timesunion.com/capitol/?p=4312 (http://blogs.timesunion.com/capitol/?p=4312)
Larkin’s racing report lists problems by James M. Odato

Senate Racing & Wagering Committee Chairman William Larkin, R-Cornwall-on-Hudson, reported today about the continuing negative trends in New York racing.

The money-losing industry, he said, needs some fixes, and the senator seems to tout a for-profit model for the racing franchise holder instead of the nonprofit structure of the historic operator, the New York Racing Association.Larkin’s Website:
http://www.senatorbilllarkin.com/ (http://www.senatorbilllarkin.com/)

Report:
http://www.senate.state.ny.us/sws/SD39/2006%20Committee%20Report.pdf (http://www.senate.state.ny.us/sws/SD39/2006%20Committee%20Report.pdf)

Indulto
04-05-2007, 03:24 PM
http://www.timesledger.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18173667&BRD=2676&PAG=461&dept_id=542415&rfi=6 (http://www.timesledger.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18173667&BRD=2676&PAG=461&dept_id=542415&rfi=6)
Yankee in-law quits as bidder for franchise at Aqueduct track By Howard Koplowitz

… Steve Swindal, the son-in-law of Yankees owner George Steinbrenner, a partner in the organization and the head of Excelsior, is leaving the consortium.

… Katie Burke, a spokeswoman for Excelsior, said the consortium's bid remains intact despite Swindal's departure.

… Part of Excelsior's proposal calls for $37 million in rehabilitation and construction plans for Aqueduct in Ozone Park and Belmont in Long Island, which borders Cambria Heights and Bellerose.It would seem that Empire (MEC, CDI, et al) now has it's best shot. Can Excelsior follow up on it's bid, financially, without the Steinbrenner family involvement? What are the pros and cons of NYRA and Excelsior joining forces? Is there a role for Steve Crist here?

Indulto
04-05-2007, 10:41 PM
http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=38317 (http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=38317)Swindal Leaves Excelsior as N.Y. Franchise Bids Aired by Tom Precious

… The withdrawal of Swindal, coming days after Steinbrenner family members also walked away from Excelsior, came to light when his name was not included in documents the group submitted to the state outlining its plan for New York racing.

… Besides Swindal and the Steinbrenner family, Excelsior also recently lost Tishman-Speyer, a major New York development company. It is left with two of its original partners, casino developer Richard Fields and the Johnston racing family out of Chicago. A new equity partner is William Mulrow, a Westchester County investment banker who has been friends with Spitzer. He said last year his role with the group was limited to being a financial advisor.

… Empire also sought to highlight its ties with racing groups outside New York. It talked of having the “power to grow’’ the Triple Crown through alliances with Magna and Churchill, and creating a “Road to the Derby’’ wagering and marketing campaign. It said it would have an exclusive ability to coordinate track starting times around the country.Mulrow’s expanded role is very interesting. Unable to muster sufficient support in the State Legislature for his bid to replace Hevesi as State Comptroller, he would now need even more political support to get the franchise.

I couldn’t resist noting the major advantage of an Empire victory.

The bids: ftp://ftp.racing.state.ny.us/bid_addendums/ (ftp://ftp.racing.state.ny.us/bid_addendums/)

Indulto
04-06-2007, 01:33 PM
I admit to having browsed through all four Addendums presented to Rifkin:

ftp://ftp.racing.state.ny.us/bid_addendums/ (ftp://ftp.racing.state.ny.us/bid_addendums/)

Excelsior’s was 29 PDF pages, Empire’s 116 , Capital Plays 269, and NYRA’s 1353 (since divided into multiple PDFs).

I read all of Excelsior’s, most of Empire’s, the little of substance in Capital Play’s, and most of what was analytical in NYRA’s as opposed to all the “Exhibits” with blocked-out confidential info., contracts, property descriptions, etc.

In the 269-page Capital Play Addendum, 138 pages were devoted to Exhibit A, Race Schedule Saratoga (pp128-147), Race Schedule Belmont (pp148-195), and Race Schedule Aqueduct (pp196-265) which detailed race no., distance, and conditions for every race card to be presented in 2008. I wonder who their target audience is?

In the NYRA’s “Executive Summary” portion in the section entitled “Integrity and Corporate Governance” on PDF page 8 (3B-6), a reference is included to a Beyer article praising the NYRA. I wonder who THEIR target audience is?

More interesting was an analysis of what went wrong and why while presenting solution alternatives. The following on 3B-9 under “Business Model Needs Reform” says it all:…on-track handle, where NYRA retains 9.9 percent of each wager, accounts for only 12% of total wagering. The remaining 88 percent originates from OTBs and simulcast sites where NYRA retains only 2.5 percent of each wager. Therefore, throughout a period when total wagering was increasing, NYRA’s revenue declined.I came away from Empire’s with the impression they don’t just want to run New York racing, but the entire thoroughbred industry as well. No mention of either Tim Smith or Friends of New York Racing. The Larkin Report should have been part of it.

Excelsior seems more geographically focused, but appears to be planning for expansion well beyond racing itself. I can understand why there may be more people spending time and money on the resulting properties, but not how that will increase handle significantly.

Indulto
04-07-2007, 09:51 PM
(http://www.nypost.com/seven/04072007/sports/wynn_)
http://www.nypost.com/seven/04072007/sports/wynn_joins_tracks_bid_sports_ed_fountaine.htm (http://www.nypost.com/seven/04072007/sports/wynn_joins_tracks_bid_sports_ed_fountaine.htm)
WYNN JOINS TRACKS BID By ED FOUNTAINE

… Steve Wynn and developer Steven Roth … are set to join Excelsior Racing Associates … That would fill the void left when Steve Swindal and the Steinbrenner family withdrew … George Steinbrenner's daughter Jennifer.

… Retired Hall of Fame jockey Jerry Bailey, one of Excelsior's top advisers, revealed Wynn's involvement yesterday during a visit to the jocks' room at Aqueduct …

… Gov. Spitzer, who counts Fields and Mulrow as close political allies, said he was not bound by the committee's recommendation and started the process anew.http://www.saratogian.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18180104&BRD=1169&PAG=461&dept_id=602469&rfi=6 (http://www.saratogian.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18180104&BRD=1169&PAG=461&dept_id=602469&rfi=6)
Schedule for racing presentations set By PAUL POST

… Empire will outline its proposal to a state committee at 10 a.m. Tuesday at Meeting Room 6 of Empire State Plaza in Albany, followed by New York Racing Association at 2 p.m.

On Wednesday, Australia-based Capital Play Inc. will make its presentation at 10 a.m. followed by Excelsior Racing Associates at 2 p.m.

… All of next week's presentations are open to the public.Any upstanding upstate posters here willing to uplift us with first-person accounts of the upbraiding upstarts’ attempts to upset the applecart of tradition upholders they wouldn’t touch with a ten-foot Albanian, i.e. paid lobbyist or campaign-supported politician, if it weren’t for those Very Lucrative Terminators of the Sport in Queens. ;)

bigmack
04-08-2007, 05:48 PM
So it's fairly clear at this point. Wynn was in & Swindal was in. Wynn went out, Swindal went out. Wynn is now back in & Swindal is still out.

When do Abbott & Costello get involved?

Tom
04-08-2007, 06:07 PM
Who?

Indulto
04-08-2007, 06:15 PM
So it's fairly clear at this point. Wynn was in & Swindal was in. Wynn went out, Swindal went out. Wynn is now back in & Swindal is still out.

When do Abbott & Costello get involved?:lol:
The question in my mind is: If Wynn went out due to insufficient time to complete the vetting, why does he have enough time now?

Apparently he is applying a little "friction-proofing" to his ball-bare-ings. ;)

Indulto
04-09-2007, 08:14 AM
http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=579118&category=FRONTPG&BCCode=HOME&newsdate=4/9/2007 (http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=579118&category=FRONTPG&BCCode=HOME&newsdate=4/9/2007)

Whitney trims her stake in Empire

Marylou Whitney … divested almost half her shares, cutting back from 4 percent of Empire to 2.3 percent ... just before the deadline last month to submit 10 years of financial data to the state Inspector General's office.

The move put her under the reporting threshold of 2.5 percent.

… Meanwhile, the current holder of the racetrack franchise, the financially troubled New York Racing Association, is using up to $600,000 in state money to bid on extending its rights to run racing.

PaceAdvantage
04-10-2007, 03:00 AM
A wealthy widow frightened to divulge the family secrets?

(prepare yourself Indulto)

We wonder what wonders wallow in the well of Whitney wealth with which she wishes to whisk from the watching!

Indulto
04-10-2007, 03:58 AM
A wealthy widow frightened to divulge the family secrets?

(prepare yourself Indulto)

We wonder what wonders wallow in the well of Whitney wealth with which she wishes to whisk from the watching!PA,
Your maiden effort earned a 90 BSR with a comment line of waited, wide, willingly, won under wraps after losing whip. ;)

Now you see them, now you do n't. The issue is no longer transparency, but invisibility. :D

Indulto
04-10-2007, 04:02 AM
http://www.saratogian.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18187703&BRD=1169&PAG=461&dept_id=602469&rfi=6 (http://www.saratogian.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18187703&BRD=1169&PAG=461&dept_id=602469&rfi=6)

Wynn comes to Excelsior's rescue By PAUL POST

… While Wynn and Fields are casino industry leaders, if Excelsior gets the racing contract it might recruit key personnel from New York Racing Association to run the racing product, spokesperson Katie Burke said

"Excelsior's belief has always been and continues to be that the key to transforming the New York racing franchise lies in new management," she said. "We believe the investment, integrity, and commitment to partnership that our plan sets forth is quite simply the best plan for New York taxpayers and racing fans alike.


"We also believe that the hard-working men and women currently employed by NYRA provide racing and operations expertise that we will use as a resource if we are selected by the panel to assume control of the franchise.

Indulto
04-11-2007, 11:08 PM
http://www.capitalnews9.com/content/top_stories/default.asp?ArID=209319 (http://www.capitalnews9.com/content/top_stories/default.asp?ArID=209319)

Empire Racing and NYRA pitch proposals


http://www.capitalnews9.com/content/your_news/capital_region/default.asp?ArID=209391 (http://www.capitalnews9.com/content/your_news/capital_region/default.asp?ArID=209391)

Capital Play and Excelsior present proposals to panel

bigmack
04-12-2007, 12:08 AM
It's a good thing they rendered the services of a stockpile of attorneys as anyone with a 2.5%+ share was required to supply:

All foreign and domestic bank accounts (checking, savings, time deposits, certificates of deposit, money market funds) by you, your spouse and dependent children.

Loans against pension plans, life insurance policies, 401(k) plans.

Have you, your spouse or dependent children made or received a loan in excess of $10,000?

Have you filed an insurance claim in excess of $100,000?

Have you received a referral or finder's fee in excess of $10,000?

Do you have safety deposit boxes? Names and address of bank and name of person the box is in must be supplied.

List all real estate interests.

List other assets such as art collections, the date they were purchased and current value.

Provide federal and state tax returns for the past three years.

Indulto
04-12-2007, 11:51 PM
http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=580124&category=FRONTPG&BCCode=HOME&newsdate=4/12/2007 (http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=580124&category=FRONTPG&BCCode=HOME&newsdate=4/12/2007)

Long on promises, short on details By JAMES M. ODATO

... "The real magic will take place at Belmont Park," Wynn said. Pressed for specifics by panelists Sen. John Sabini, D-Jackson Heights, and Assemblyman Gary Pretlow, D-Mount Vernon, Wynn said: "Our job is to put our collective talents together . . . If we get picked, we'll figure it out."

… "Look," Wynn responded, "you either trust us to do this or you don't. If we're the right guys to fix this, then we'll get you the" most.

… With a slick video and in direct discussions, Capital Play officials highlighted the "carnivals" they've created in Melbourne and elsewhere that have attracted big crowds to racetracks.

… "We will bring back the passion for thoroughbred racing," O'Farrell said.

Excelsior officials envisioned winning visitors to Belmont from nearby John F. Kennedy International Airport by installing a high-end hotel at Belmont. Capital Play's plan calls for hotels and Belmont and Aqueduct.

Sabini said neighbors of Belmont Park would likely oppose Capital Play's proposal to put up lights and run races in the evenings at the Long Island track.
http://www.saratogian.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18200125&BRD=1169&PAG=461&dept_id=602469&rfi=6 (http://www.saratogian.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18200125&BRD=1169&PAG=461&dept_id=602469&rfi=6)
Final cases made for racing By PAUL POST

ALBANY - If Excelsior Racing Associates wins the state's thoroughbred franchise, Jerry Bailey's
impassioned speech might very well prove to be the turning point.

… "As good as I was, I found that the best way to do it was to get on the best horse," he said. "Gentlemen, Excelsior is the best horse."


… "He's (Bailey) the guy, that if you want to put two bucks on somebody or a franchise on somebody's back, you can trust him because of his past record and his integrity and ability," said Assembly Minority Leader James Tedisco, R-Schenectady, whose district includes Saratoga Springs. "He added a tremendous amount to this group."


… "They certainly brought in some heavy hitters to join their team that have a lot of credibility," said Saratoga Springs' Jack Knowlton, a member of the state ad hoc committee that gave Excelsior its positive recommendation last fall. "In many ways it is a stronger team than the one that we were presented with and the written bid that we reviewed."

… Much of Excelsior's proposal is premised on the ability to raise more than $470 per machine, per day, from video lottery terminals at Aqueduct and possibly Belmont. State Sen. John Sabini, D-Queens, said that might be too optimistic. At present, Saratoga Gaming & Raceway is reaping $246 per machine, the most of any track in the state with VLTs, he said.

… Wynn bristled when asked if Excelsior could guarantee its financial commitment, adding that the state has gotten many false promises in the past. "Are we guaranteeing these payments?" he said. "I think the answer is no. You either trust us to do this or you don't."
http://www.poststar.com/articles/2007/04/10/news/latest/doc461c3d127cfcb118224731.txt (http://www.poststar.com/articles/2007/04/10/news/latest/doc461c3d127cfcb118224731.txt)

Bidders ask for trust with state racing franchise By CHARLES FIEGL

… State Assembly Minority Leader James Tedisco, R-Schenectady, said he understood Wynn's comments that the groups can make only some guarantees, but the group that wins would need to make financial commitments in order to enter into a contract with the state.

... "We've allocated $50 million (for Saratoga)," O'Farrell said. "The people of Saratoga and the stakeholders in Saratoga can say how best to spend that."

O'Farrell said he would love to install "a beautiful fence" around the oldest track in the country.

Mayor Valerie Keehn felt $50 million would quickly be absorbed with improvements to the backstretch, rail and other amenities needed for the track that would not compromise its history.

Keehn, who sat on the [ad hoc] committee, said Excelsior's plan had changed little from what she reviewed.

"It doesn't sound like they are offering anything much different than what was proposed before," she said.

Indulto
04-13-2007, 11:01 PM
http://www.drf.com/news/article/84006.html (http://www.drf.com/news/article/84006.html)
New York bidders twist reality By STEVEN CRIST

… The three private-equity groups … have to pretend that their real interest is in racing, and that they have quick and easy solutions that will make the sport wildly popular and profitable.

Their arguments boil down to three massive falsehoods:

Big Lie No. 1: Racing in New York has declined while the racing industry is flourishing elsewhere, because of the corrupt management of the NYRA.

… Big Lie No. 2: New York racing will reach new heights by marketing itself to a younger audience and promoting jockeys as star athletes.

… Big Lie No. 3: Slot machines on the premises will attract and convert the masses into racing fans.
http://www.drf.com/news/article/83994.html (http://www.drf.com/news/article/83994.html)
Casinos, malls and, oh yes, racing By MATT HEGARTY

… For sheer chutzpah, none of the bidders exceeded Steve Wynn, the casino operator who was brought in by Excelsior Racing Associates one day before the hearings started. After telling the panel about his friendship with the Dalai Lama, Wynn equated his standing as a "humanist" with the ability of his casinos to post the "highest yield per table" in Las Vegas while contending that the legislators on the panel needed to have "an honest discussion" about racing's failures and its only salvation: slot machines. Wynn's honest discussion included several hints that the state was overcharging casino operators for their monopolies and that everyone would benefit by a lower tax rate for slot-machine revenues. Then he mentioned something about bulldozing the state's OTBs, and if they didn't like that strategy, he would force OTB's customers to cash their winning tickets at the casinos he would be running.

PaceAdvantage
04-14-2007, 02:40 AM
Sounds like the only carnival going on is the three-ring circus known as the franchise renewal process.
Did I read right, or did one hopeful franchisee actually state that they'd like to expand racing from "8 horses per race" to "12 horses per race"

Huh? Is someone under the false impression that they are buying a harness track? Can this get any more pathetic?

"You either trust us to do this or you don't" That's the best he's got? Holy Shit!

Tom
04-14-2007, 10:07 AM
:lol:

Maybe they will have "house horses" to fill fields, you know, like Zigfield?

:lol:

Indulto
04-16-2007, 05:53 AM
http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=581113&category=FRONTPG&BCCode=HOME&newsdate=4/16/2007 (http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=581113&category=FRONTPG&BCCode=HOME&newsdate=4/16/2007)

No sign of annual prayer breakfast by Rick Karlin and James M. Odato.

... Seeing a higher purpose Las Vegas casino legend Steve Wynn, now part of the Excelsior Racing Associates team, offered a personal touch in testimony last week to a state panel considering bids for New York's racing franchise. Wynn described himself as "sort of a humanist," and talked about spirituality:

"When I was at school at the University of Pennsylvania, one of the courses I took was about comparative religions. ... I studied Mahayana Buddhism and later in life I got friendly with the Dalai Lama, a man that said if you really want to be happy in life you'll help other people, that money and power won't get the job done. ... In my business that simple truth of a Buddhist monk is also the heart and soul of a human resource program. It says success for me is my ability to make my staff of 15,000 or 16,000 people be successful so that their self-image is enhanced and their self-image is enhanced when they make customers happy."http://www.saratogian.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18214416&BRD=1169&PAG=461&dept_id=602469&rfi=6 (http://www.saratogian.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18214416&BRD=1169&PAG=461&dept_id=602469&rfi=6)
NYRA: Saratoga '07 better than last year By PAUL POST

… Hayward, NYRA's president and CEO, recently discussed several near-term issues confronting the racing association.

... Q. Some people are concerned that if NYRA doesn't get the next contract, it might simply walk away from the franchise and leave racing high and dry. Is that possible?

A. No. The thing to keep in mind is that we're non-profit. Our board is comprised of very influential business people, many of them very significant horse owners. They put a lot of time in now for free. They do it in the best interests of the sport. If we're not awarded the franchise and the land claim is not resolved in our favor, then we'd work with whoever would be the designated franchisee. The last thing we want to do is disrupt racing. We want to ensure that high-quality racing continues

PaceAdvantage
04-17-2007, 12:21 AM
Why does the Steve Wynn persona, coupled with the word 'humanist' conjure up the image of one Mr. Al Pacino?

Indulto
04-17-2007, 02:16 AM
Why does the Steve Wynn persona, coupled with the word 'humanist' conjure up the image of one Mr. Al Pacino?Does that look like someone enhancing their self-image to make their customers happy? ;)

highnote
04-22-2007, 01:17 PM
Stan Bergstein made a good point in his most recent article -- since slots are going to make the NYRA tracks flush with cashe, they should do away with takeout on-track completely.

It cracks me up that two of the NYRA bidders want to raise takeout on a dying sport while at the same time making hoards of cash. Either they are greedy or are pandering to politicians -- or a combination of the two -- take your pick.

Raising takeout on a dying product is like a computer manufacturer raising prices on a Pentium I computer loaded with Windows 95. It's no way to increase sales.

If the on-track takeout were 0% imagine the crowds. Big players would return to the track. It would truly usher in a new era.

Money makes the horses go around.

camzrazr
04-22-2007, 05:06 PM
Wynn had to talk to the Dalai Lama to finally hear one of the simplest messages in all human interaction, in all times and all places and then parade it in a legislative hearing as if it were a nugget? Wow, again

John - know where I can get me one of them there Pentium I's?

highnote
04-22-2007, 05:26 PM
John - know where I can get me one of them there Pentium I's?

No. Do you know where I can bet with a takeout lower than on-track? ;)

Indulto
04-22-2007, 06:34 PM
http://www.saratogian.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18244633&BRD=1169&PAG=461&dept_id=602469&rfi=6 (http://www.saratogian.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18244633&BRD=1169&PAG=461&dept_id=602469&rfi=6)

Gillibrand marks 100 days By TED REINERT

Kirsten Gillibrand, D-Hudson, … recently sat down … to talk about … her take on national issues as a member of the House of Representatives.

… "I've enjoyed watching Charlie Rangel. He's the dean of the New York delegation."

… Gillibrand has not gotten to work closely with Speaker Pelosi since the Steering Committee, but said she enjoyed monthly breakfasts that Pelosi held for the Democratic freshmen.

She said most of the New York Democratic delegation is solidly behind Senator Hillary Clinton, who she says has the right experience, has dedicated herself to serving the people of New York and has spent a lot of time upstate.

"I'm supporting our senator," she said.

… As for New York's new governor, Eliot Spitzer, Gillibrand said, "He's doing a great job. He's showing extraordinary leadership and a strong vision for the state's future." She said she trusted the governor's process for selecting a track operator to begin when the New York Racing Association's franchise expires at the end of the year.Too bad the congresswoman wasn’t asked about the UIGEA.

Indulto
04-24-2007, 03:14 AM
http://blogs.timesunion.com/capitol/?p=4480 (http://blogs.timesunion.com/capitol/?p=4480)

Endorsement Race? by Jay Jochnowitz

… Empire Racing announced today that Assemblyman Bill Magee, D-Nelson, who chairs the Agriculture Committee, gave his blessing to Empire’s bid for the state racing franchise.

… Empire said Magee signed on particularly because of its proposal for an Empire Equine Economic Zone and its relationships with Cornell University, where it says it would donate $20 million for the school’s equine drug testing facility, and Morrisville State College, whose equine research program would be $1 million.Apparently it's too soon to say that Empire bought the farm ........................ vote. ;)

alysheba88
04-24-2007, 08:46 AM
"The notion being pushed by these for-profit bidders, and which underlies their proposals, is that New York racing has lost its preeminent status under NYRA. This is demonstrably false, as Crist and others have pointed out. This year, not counting the Breeders' Cup, nearly 40% (37 of 99) of all Grade I races are being run at New York tracks, including 20 at Belmont and 14 at Saratoga. The Saratoga meet is the most successful and prestigious in the country, and ranks among the most important race meetings in the world. Over the past four years, Saratoga has ranked first in the U. S. in average purse size, with Belmont not far behind in third. According to Crist, New York racing "has thrived in the simulcast market, and commands a higher share of the national betting handle than ever."



http://www.saratogian.com/site/index.cfm?newsid=18250672&BRD=1169&PAG=461&dept_id=602469&rfi=8

Indulto
04-24-2007, 12:40 PM
http://www.saratogian.com/site/index.cfm?newsid=18250672&BRD=1169&PAG=461&dept_id=602469&rfi=8From the same article:... Excelsior at least is upfront about its makeup. The home page of Empire's website, on the other hand, identifies this organization as a "visionary group of New York horsemen and breeders" that "believes New York racing should be run by New Yorkers, for New Yorkers." One has to go elsewhere on the site to learn Empire's operational arm includes three major racing/gaming companies, all of them based out of state. These include Magna Entertainment and Churchill Downs Incorporated, two conglomerates that between them have lost hundreds of millions of dollars and have resorted to selling off racing properties (most infamously, Churchill's sale of Hollywood Park in 2005). Other Empire partners - the real estate development firms SL Green Realty and the Maryland-based Cordish Company - aren't even mentioned on the website, presumably because they clash with the "home grown," racing-only image Empire is trying to project.