Routers with tactical speed - great bets.

[Fastracehorse]

If you like a horse with any of your favorite angles; and he is a router that is a price - use this horse.

There have been so many phenomenal bets in N.Y. with sharp routers.

They can get close to the leaders with their tactical speed - and sustain their run because of their inherent ability to route.

fffastt

[the little guy]

It is better to have your slippers wear out dancing than to have your feet cut off.

[JustRalph]

If you like a horse with any of your favorite angles; and he is a router that is a price - use this horse.

There have been so many phenomenal bets in N.Y. with sharp routers.

They can get close to the leaders with their tactical speed - and sustain their run because of their inherent ability to route.

fffastt

This post cries out for context...........

[the little guy]

This post cries out for context...........


It's crying out for something.

[JustMissed]

If you like a horse with any of your favorite angles; and he is a router that is a price - use this horse.

There have been so many phenomenal bets in N.Y. with sharp routers.

They can get close to the leaders with their tactical speed - and sustain their run because of their inherent ability to route.

fffastt

Inquiring minds want to know? :lol:

[Ponyplayr]

Street Sense is a good example...Speed plus stamina.

Here is his Conduit Mare Profile. Conduit Mare Profile = 3-7-2-11-4 Speed = 10 Stamina = 15 Index = 0.71 Triads = 12-20-17

This one also had the highest GSV2 rating. A mark of Class.
Not sure if this is what Fast was referring to.

[twindouble]

If you like a horse with any of your favorite angles; and he is a router that is a price - use this horse.

There have been so many phenomenal bets in N.Y. with sharp routers.

They can get close to the leaders with their tactical speed - and sustain their run because of their inherent ability to route.

fffastt

I wouldn't clasify what your saying as "an angle" the way you offer it up.
This is what an angle is to me. Jock change, turf to dirt, first race off a claim, first time L, in other words unrelated to the horses past performance, ability or conditions he's running in.

I will add this, good breaking routers entered in middle distance races against closing sprinters and speed that could collapse make are a good bet with value.

T.D.

[Valuist]

I've always heard Cisco made the best routers.

[kroebuck67]

I learned all about routers from Norm Abram on "New Yankee Workshop" this week. :)

[twindouble]

I learned all about routers from Norm Abram on "New Yankee Workshop" this week. :)

ROUTER- Horse who performs well at distance races.

[twindouble]

Street Sense is a good example...Speed plus stamina.

Here is his Conduit Mare Profile. Conduit Mare Profile = 3-7-2-11-4 Speed = 10 Stamina = 15 Index = 0.71 Triads = 12-20-17

This one also had the highest GSV2 rating. A mark of Class.
Not sure if this is what Fast was referring to.

Thanks for responding, I've been dropping in here inbetween races, Mnr.

Good pick on Street Sense, the horse got by me but not my wife. :)
I don't know what a G SV2 rating is or the stamina and profiles. Sorry about that.

T.D.

[kroebuck67]

ROUTER- Horse who performs well at distance races.

Ahh... Ok then... thanks for clearing that up. :rolleyes:

[andicap]

I've always heard Cisco made the best routers.

well, whatever you do, don't buy a Belkin.

[Valuist]

Are Nortel and 3Com still around? I'm guessing 3Com isn't. So who is Cisco's big competition nowadays?

[twindouble]

Ahh... Ok then... thanks for clearing that up. :rolleyes:

Just joking around Buck.

Fastracehorse is, well what can say? He races around, comes out every gate, stumbles, goes wide and I mean very wide sometimes but he knows how to handicap. Keep him talking horses, he wouldn't hurt this forum. Not that it would't be a challange. Now that I think about it, isn't that what PA has to deal with all the time? :lol:


Good luck,

T.D.

[classhandicapper]

If you like a horse with any of your favorite angles; and he is a router that is a price - use this horse.

There have been so many phenomenal bets in N.Y. with sharp routers.

They can get close to the leaders with their tactical speed - and sustain their run because of their inherent ability to route.

fffastt

Are you talking about speedy routers dropping back into a sprint?

[twindouble]

Are you talking about speedy routers dropping back into a sprint?

Read my post, he wasn't clear on what he meant.



T.D.

[kenwoodallpromos]

If you like a horse with any of your favorite angles; and he is a router that is a price - use this horse.

There have been so many phenomenal bets in N.Y. with sharp routers.

They can get close to the leaders with their tactical speed - and sustain their run because of their inherent ability to route.

fffastt
Speed to stay close and able to finish well makes sense to me in route races!

[Fastracehorse]

I wouldn't clasify what your saying as "an angle" the way you offer it up.
This is what an angle is to me. Jock change, turf to dirt, first race off a claim, first time L, in other words unrelated to the horses past performance, ability or conditions he's running in.

I will add this, good breaking routers entered in middle distance races against closing sprinters and speed that could collapse make are a good bet with value.

T.D.

But I did say: "with any of your favorite angles."

I guess U could look at is an angle however.

fffastt

[Fastracehorse]

Are you talking about speedy routers dropping back into a sprint?

I see that I need to show some examples.

I'll make a point of listing some fresh ones this week.

fffastt

[twindouble]

But I did say: "with any of your favorite angles."

I guess U could look at is an angle however.

fffastt

Thanks for clearing that up, now under what conditions do you jump on such a horse. Also why do you need added angles to pick up on horses like that other than how he fits the race overall.

T.D.

[The Judge]

First of all I'm fascinated by "Mordern Conduit Mares" and I'm a big fan of Lowes work. I am not familar with the horse that you mention and I have not looked up his race record but I assume from the conversation that this horse has established some sort of race history.

My question is, if a horse has a race history and is not trying something new (routing, turf, mud etc.) isn't wise or can't you get the same information from the horses race history and isn't this more reliable? If its a lightly race horse then of course I understand looking at other then the race record.

[Light]

I think it was last spring while playing a 7f race at Keenland where my huge paying super looked good until very late when a router called Sun King beat me at double digit odds. I spent a couple of hours going over Sun King's performance cause it cost me thousands and what I came up with is that routers who have an E2 in their routes that is greater or equal to the highest Lp of the sprinters must be considered,especially in 7f races.

[twindouble]

I think it was last spring while playing a 7f race at Keenland where my huge paying super looked good until very late when a router called Sun King beat me at double digit odds. I spent a couple of hours going over Sun King's performance cause it cost me thousands and what I came up with is that routers who have an E2 in their routes that is greater or equal to the highest Lp of the sprinters must be considered,especially in 7f races.

Light, we are talking the same thing but it would be nice if you modern handicappers would spell out what "E2" and "Lp" means and where they come from. Not for me as you know.


Thanks,

T.D.

[Light]

TD

Pace handicappers use those terms liberally.E1 references the first call in a sprint or route.(2f or 4f) E2 references the second call in a sprint or route .(4f or 6f)Note that figure is inclusive of E1. LP references the last call in a sprint or route .

[Fastracehorse]

Thanks for clearing that up, now under what conditions do you jump on such a horse. Also why do you need added angles to pick up on horses like that other than how he fits the race overall.

T.D.

I'm always looking for added punch when selecting a horse. I believe that some of 'our favorite angles' further validate our selection; such as turf to dirt.

McLaughlin had such a runner recently: The horse ran a nice speed figure 2 races back ( going 1 1/16 ) and showed good tactical speed. Last start wasn't so aharp but on the turf. 'Today' he was form the outside 10 post and this was perfect ( 1 1/16 again ): The horse could get close early and sustain a run late.

He paid $22.

fffastt

[Fastracehorse]

I think it was last spring while playing a 7f race at Keenland where my huge paying super looked good until very late when a router called Sun King beat me at double digit odds. I spent a couple of hours going over Sun King's performance cause it cost me thousands and what I came up with is that routers who have an E2 in their routes that is greater or equal to the highest Lp of the sprinters must be considered,especially in 7f races.

A sharp router won at Woodbine on Sun.. Vella was the trainer. His horse runs a few route races where he stays close through all the fractions and then he cuts back to 7 panels. Blinkers on to boot - paid $10.

fffastt

[46zilzal]

Dr. Quirin put it very simply a long time ago. Come from behind horses have THREE things to overcome:
1) They are passive observers of the pace and the rider has to make a best guess as to when to move.
2) Having NO input into the pace, they are at the mercy of fractions NOT of their own making.
3) Traffic troubles are common when passing tiring horses.

the speed horse SETS the fractions or prompts them, the rider has complete control as to when to move and can pick the best part of the track, it is easier to exert a little energy to stay in front that late into a contest as compared to mustering up the energy to overtake another horse. Speed has it all over the closer.

[Fastracehorse]

Dr. Quirin put it very simply a long time ago. Come from behind horses have THREE things to overcome:
1) They are passive observers of the pace and the rider has to make a best guess as to when to move.
2) Having NO input into the pace, they are at the mercy of fractions NOT of their own making.
3) Traffic troubles are common when passing tiring horses.

But I think U have to consider powerful late runners.

Speed can duel itself into submission or even burn itself out.

I agree that my favorite bets are lone speed however.

fffastt

[46zilzal]

But I think U have to consider powerful late runners.

Speed can duel itself into submission or even burn itself out.

I agree that my favorite bets are lone speed however.


NOT at the tracks I play. Case in point the 3 horse in the 6th today at Philly. Speed and 8/1 in a route.

[twindouble]

Keep it up guys, now your talking my game. :cool: Who's going to be where in the race and why. Talk about good breaking routers, how about the one that can clear the field out of the gate going short. :jump:

[GaryG]

Keep it up guys, now your talking my game. :cool: Who's going to be where in the race and why. Talk about good breaking routers, how about the one that can clear the field out of the gate going short. :jump:One of my best plays is a router with speed and a second call fig that is better than the final times of the sprinters. :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

[Light]

2) Having NO input into the pace, they are at the mercy of fractions NOT of their own making.


Not allways the case. I have seen a few routers who do not possess front speed in routes go wire to wire in a sprint. Their trainers aint dumb. They know when to send a horse that was never on the front end before.

[Tom]

One of my best plays is a router with speed and a second call fig that is better than the final times of the sprinters. :ThmbUp: :ThmbUp:

That has been one of my favorites for decades! Ever since I started making pace figure to go with my speed figures back in the late 70's. I made the Qirin style numbers, and now use the HTR version and I find many good plays like this.

[Ponyplayr]

First of all I'm fascinated by "Mordern Conduit Mares" and I'm a big fan of Lowes work. I am not familar with the horse that you mention and I have not looked up his race record but I assume from the conversation that this horse has established some sort of race history.

My question is, if a horse has a race history and is not trying something new (routing, turf, mud etc.) isn't wise or can't you get the same information from the horses race history and isn't this more reliable? If its a lightly race horse then of course I understand looking at other then the race record.
Street Sense won the BC Juvenile at CD this year. The main reason i bet him was his high GSV2 score and his CMP. I find that CMP and GSV work well with MSW routs on both dirt and turf, juvenile stake races, dirt and turf and the graded races dirt and turf.

For claiming races dirt and turf the numbers have little to no value. For these races it is definitely better to analyse the PP's.

[twindouble]

Not allways the case. I have seen a few routers who do not possess front speed in routes go wire to wire in a sprint. Their trainers aint dumb. They know when to send a horse that was never on the front end before.

Good point Light, isn't like trainers don't know how to read the form.

[grahors]

Street Sense won the BC Juvenile at CD this year. The main reason i bet him was his high GSV2 score and his CMP. I find that CMP and GSV work well with MSW routs on both dirt and turf, juvenile stake races, dirt and turf and the graded races dirt and turf.

For claiming races dirt and turf the numbers have little to no value. For these races it is definitely better to analyse the PP's.
Pony,
Iam at a loss....what is GSV2 and CMP and where does it come from..just like to know???
Grahors

[Ponyplayr]

Pony,
Iam at a loss....what is GSV2 and CMP and where does it come from..just like to know???
Grahors
CMP is Conduit Mare Profile, this link will take you to DIMAR Publishing. Lot of info there..http://www.dimarpublishing.citymaker.com/page/page/1367142.htm

GSV is Genetic Strength Value..Here is a link to the Matchmakers home page, read the Tutorial. http://www.members.shaw.ca/thematchmaker/index06.html

Here is where you get the numbers..$10 subscription..http://www.pedigreequery.com/?query_type=horse

[twindouble]

Pony,
Iam at a loss....what is GSV2 and CMP and where does it come from..just like to know???
Grahors

Pony, there's a new language evolving in this game and it's very technical, you'll need a masters degree in math and Probabilities to understand it all. It's mandatory you create your own figures or buy someone's software and data to make money. Not with standing the fact you'll need to learn how the financial markets work to make sound investments in the horses.


Good luck,

T.D.

[PaceAdvantage]

Pony, there's a new language evolving in this game and it's very technical, you'll need a masters degree in math and Probabilities to understand it all. It's mandatory you create your own figures or buy someone's software and data to make money. Not with standing the fact you'll need to learn how the financial markets work to make sound investments in the horses.

Do you realize how condescending the above quote sounds to someone like me, who makes my own software/figures in addition to being someone who uses other people's work to supplement my own at times (Dave Schwartz and CJ come to mind immediately).

Maybe you didn't intend for your words to resonate the way that they did, but that's the way I read them. I don't see anybody mocking the way YOU handicap the races. Just because you CAN'T or WON'T understand the way I handicap, doesn't mean you can sit there and mock my methods of play without getting a nasty reply in return.

This isn't the first time you've done this, and it's the prime reason why I have little sympathy for you when you play the victim card.

[JustRalph]

Do you realize how condescending the above quote sounds to someone like me, who makes my own software/figures in addition to being someone who uses other people's work to supplement my own at times (Dave Schwartz and CJ come to mind immediately).

Maybe you didn't intend for your words to resonate the way that they did, but that's the way I read them. I don't see anybody mocking the way YOU handicap the races. Just because you CAN'T or WON'T understand the way I handicap, doesn't mean you can sit there and mock my methods of play without getting a nasty reply in return.

This isn't the first time you've done this, and it's the prime reason why I have little sympathy for you when you play the victim card.

ummm........yeah........... I think PA's point goes back to my point from yestereday.........see it here........

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=331661&postcount=6

I don't know if it is a writing style thing or what? But I kind of feel the same way PA does on the way you say things Twin? I am a little perplexed by it sometimes.

[NY BRED]

If you like a horse with any of your favorite angles; and he is a router that is a price - use this horse.

There have been so many phenomenal bets in N.Y. with sharp routers.

They can get close to the leaders with their tactical speed - and sustain their run because of their inherent ability to route.

fffastt

I believe this thread is a a joke to stir the dialogue and debates
listed above.
this statement does not define surface, main track or inner,and makes
no reference to class, post position speed or class.

any person actually alogned with drf(another question mark) would
offer such cautionary advice when promoting such a theory ,including
stats to confirm same

[the little guy]

I believe this thread is a a joke to stir the dialogue and debates
listed above.
this statement does not define surface, main track or inner,and makes
no reference to class, post position speed or class.

any person actually alogned with drf(another question mark) would
offer such cautionary advice when promoting such a theory ,including
stats to confirm same


Just so you know, he is in NO way " aligned " with DRF and is, at best, a troll in their chat room.

[Fastracehorse]

NOT at the tracks I play. Case in point the 3 horse in the 6th today at Philly. Speed and 8/1 in a route.

The best pick-3 I got in Novemeber at Aqueduct was: closer - w to w -
w to w.

I'm glad I considered a closer in the first leg.

Also, now with polytracks being born all across N. A. a horse player has to consider all running styles. Let alone grass races.

fffastt