some final thoughts on BC day...

[JPinMaryland]

I dont know if these are FINAL, final, but just some stuff that is still running through my head:

If Pine Island had gone down in traffic her terrible break would have been even more catastrophic. Somewhat fortunate in that. We call these guys pinheads on a regular basis but quite dangerous when you think about it.

Good job by Santos in pulling up Fleet Indian when he did, I dont know how bad her injuries are as of today, but from first reports she could have done much more damage had she even gone a few more strides. We dont give these guys nearly enuf credit when they do stuff like that.

How good was Dettori's ride on Red Rockss to win his second race of the day? Looks like a very well timed run to me or was this just the right horse...?

Henny Hughes finished dead last. Any word how he returned from the race?

Any change in plans to sell Fleet Indian after the injury? Or is it simply all on hold until the surgery? Well, duh I guess it has to be til she gets through it. Did they expect the next buyer to breed her or race? I guess that is the question.

The Earl said Quija Board may run one or two more. Anything more specific?

Did Castellano move too early w/ Bernardini? The media people seemed to suggest this when they talked to ALbertrani. But it hardly seemed the case, he was making his same move at the same point in the race wasnt he? Or do others think differently?

Any thoughts on Bro. Derek's performance? Not sure if this is first time back to the races or what. And Lawyer Ron? Same old story, runs rank?

Hammerin Hank seemed to be on the ball yesterday. He had Street Sense (clocker's report posted in this forum also spotted him) and I know he had one other longshot that placed....

[ghostyapper]

Haven't heard anyone else mention it but hats off to better talk now for finishing 2nd. What a warrior this horse is.

Some fell in love with bernardinis effortless strides but I love better talk now's workmanlike strides. Those strides have earned him over 3.5 million in his career.

What a horse.

[JPinMaryland]

Wasnt he the horse that won the BC turf in 2004? If memory serves he bore in on a couple of horses that wrecked an exacta for me. He was 27-1 on that day and they let him stand...So Im having trouble looking at him rationally. He had a history of troubled trips didnt he? I knew he was a fast closer, big long strider...

Nakatani apparently made some comments during the race about the footing on the track that the horse who could get good footing would win the later races. On the about.com message board someone claims to have seen the track on the day and that it was rolled very hard but also that his take was that horses were having trouble getting footing. I cannot tell from the TV whether true or not and have no expertise in that area but is it at all possible that Invasor simply got better footing out there in the middle of the track?

I am not convinced that Bern. didnt make the right move at the right time, and am not sure but I dont think he was tiring or shortening his stride at the end. Maybe explanation is that Invasor just found a good part of the track at that pt. in the race? Basically I still think Bern. would win that race maybe 5 times out of 10, prolly an overlay somewhat, and Invasor was good value at 9-1 or whatever. I guess I think Bern. is still the best horse but losing yesterday was certainly w/ the realm of probability.


The hard track came up in a thread about Pine Island which I think is unfortunate because the injury happened on the turn which was prolly due more to torque and pre existing weakness in her legs and not a hard surface. Certainly the times at CD yesterday were not blistering or at least not from what I recall. Not saying the track wasnt hard just that it wasnt the only factor obviously. The ESPN announcers went out of their way to say how safe the track was at CD etc. Methinks they doth protest too much, why even go there? ANd if it is a concern (which obviously it was since Bailey et al brought it up) then certainly we arent going to figure out the final verdict on this question in betwee race 6 and 7. Basically it's an open question and should be looked at that way.


Ever notice how often blinker wearing horses create track trouble or their own and others? Was it Henny Hughers or Bern. who was placed right in between two blinker wearing clods? They both bumped right into him at the start...If you can predict that sort of thing w/ regularity it might pay dividends. Hell Im sure it would if you could...


Premium Tap was the other horse Hank had, and I think the implication was that he would be in his exotics. Others had him figured as well on this forum and I think I MOss had mentioned him earlier in the week, he was not off my radar screen...

[JPinMaryland]

It was Henny Hughes who got caught, predictably, on the break. He was sandwiched between Areyoutalkintome and LewisMichael, both of whom where blinkers.

You could do a case study on that race alone: Pomeroy clipped heels, L. Michael bumped at start, To Much Bling: steadied in traffic; Areyoutalkin: pinched back...Thor got a clean trip from the one hole. Attilla and Nitemare Affair apparently didnt find trouble according to the running line.

Asi Siempre in the distaff would be another example.

Seems to be quite predictable trait, Bob/JOhn is another game but clumsy one who seems to find it all the time. Last race I saw him in he sort of got bothered in the stretch.

[kenwoodallpromos]

I am gunshy on this forum about posting any of my opinions about the track.
I will say that on the 3rd only 1 dirt race had a 6f time ofr less thgan 1:12, and the 4th had a 1:08 and change. Both days the 7 hole did well.
Out of the 1 hole on the 4th at the 1/2 were: 13th, 9th, 9th, 4th, 1st, 1st, 1st (faded). Closer Friendly Island looked like it had a lot of mud on it so the track must have been watered good early.
I think it should be very obvious for connections at the track to know if the track was sealed or not and which part of the treack produced easier workouts.
I do not know how many crews and horse ambulances normally are used during CD meets or BC races but I do know Fleet Indian's owner was PO'ed because he could not dump the horse at auction the day after the race. What's the hurry? Is he playing the old kids' game "hot potato"?
All I know is, Nov. 4th at CD BC day, 71 more horses in workouts/races involved the horse going around the 2nd turn than the 1st.
"Since the large majority of serious leg injuries occur on the 2nd turn vs the 1st turn due to amount of usage, and while running at speed or near speed (racing and workouts); tracks should be encouraged to use the 1st turn for workouts of 3, 4, and 5 furlongs."

[JPinMaryland]

not sure what you're getting at when you talk about the workouts. SInce those are done prior to race day wouldnt the actual races themselves have more to do with the condition of the track around the turn? Why would mid week workouts make it harder if they work the track some time after that? Who is that quote from?

I guess you are saying they were running faster times on Sat. although the 11:8 may have faded so...? I think some on the other board agree that it was running faster on sat.

What is the significance of the 7 hole? I mean is it any more significant than any other?

[kenwoodallpromos]

The post position was not significant to this BC.
According to my info workouts of 3, 4, and 5f are done on the 2nd turn- not the first; so add CD Nov 4 workouts of 3, 4, 5 f and the dirt sprints around the 2nd turn and you get 71. That is much more use of the 2nd turn than the first and eventual causes more deterioration of the 2nd turn than neccessary.
It may be easier to maintain a track that way also.

[Valuist]

I am gunshy on this forum about posting any of my opinions about the track.
I will say that on the 3rd only 1 dirt race had a 6f time ofr less thgan 1:12, and the 4th had a 1:08 and change. Both days the 7 hole did well.
Out of the 1 hole on the 4th at the 1/2 were: 13th, 9th, 9th, 4th, 1st, 1st, 1st (faded). Closer Friendly Island looked like it had a lot of mud on it so the track must have been watered good early.
I think it should be very obvious for connections at the track to know if the track was sealed or not and which part of the treack produced easier workouts.
I do not know how many crews and horse ambulances normally are used during CD meets or BC races but I do know Fleet Indian's owner was PO'ed because he could not dump the horse at auction the day after the race. What's the hurry? Is he playing the old kids' game "hot potato"?
All I know is, Nov. 4th at CD BC day, 71 more horses in workouts/races involved the horse going around the 2nd turn than the 1st.
"Since the large majority of serious leg injuries occur on the 2nd turn vs the 1st turn due to amount of usage, and while running at speed or near speed (racing and workouts); tracks should be encouraged to use the 1st turn for workouts of 3, 4, and 5 furlongs."

Ken-

You can't compare times from the 3rd to 4th without knowing what the expected abilities were. Yes, they ran a 1:12 and change on Friday and a 1:08 4/5 on Saturday.

2YO Mdn Claimers ran 1:12 1/5 on Friday
The Breeders Cup Sprint was the 1:08 4/5 on Saturday
One would expect a big difference in times between those two fields.

[Skanoochies]

I thought is was rather neat that Eddie Castro and F. Jara won Breeders cup races. Kudos to them both. :jump: