Go start your own thread.

[njcurveball]

Mr Moderator,

Can you move my posts from the Bradshaw thread. Maybe place them here or if you like delete them. A good point was made that due to some comments that thread went way off topic.

I think I just figured out that Mr. Iggy Bread Man drinks Jcapper Kool-aid. :lol:

thanks,
Jim

[ryesteve]

PA, feel free to delete mine from that thread too. You don't have to move them anyplace else, since I don't think we need a thread devoted to the Jcapper bug that's up njblueballl's ass.

[cj]

I'm curious why you have such a hard on about someone limiting sales of a product. Didn't want to get into in the other thread, but here should be fine.

[njcurveball]

CJ,


I have absolutely NO problem with anyone limiting sales. It is when I see the outrageous claims made on these boards that Jcapper horses are opening up 4-5 and soooo much money is being bet on their #1 choice. Even at Major tracks, odds are dropping.

I thought this board was full of opinionated people, but I also thought they knew how to take sarcasm. I must have posted 3 or 4 times about Jcapper and then someone named Ryesteve got bent out of shape and told me to basically f'n shut up.

I am sure he will post about me more and more, but I am done with him. He obviously is a Jcapper disciple he has drank too much of their kool-aid. He also is the type that probably was losing tons of money before the program and isn't doing much better now.

Limit sales to your hot blond girlfriend for all I care. Just don't post that YOUR software is tilting the odds at tracks from coast to coast.

I am sure if I posted here that I can throw the ball faster than Joel Zumaya, I would gather sarcastic comments quickly.

I would guess Jcapper is a good computer program, probably based on many of the Sartin principles that have been out there for so long people simply use them like they thought them up.

I would guess Jcapper people talk about Early horse and Late horses and pace times and final times, but perhaps I am wrong? If they are using something so outside the mainstream that it wins at HUGE prices, than they have no worries about horses opening up so much under their odds.

I guess you are using Jcapper as well?

best to you,
Jim

[PaceAdvantage]

In the right hands, I can certainly believe that Jcapper horses can affect the tote. Why is that so difficult for you to believe?

They don't call it pari-mutuel for nothing....and the whales are bigger than you think, if what I've heard is true....

[46zilzal]

If Donald Trump made a big enough bet HE could shift the odds nationally whatever software he used or did not use. ALL THAT WOULD INDICATE IS ONE big bettor is betting, NOT they they are using any parituclar type of software.


A bogus claim from the get go.

[PaceAdvantage]

Why is it a bogus claim? Do you not trust Jeff?

Stop reacting like an exposed nerve to things you know nothing about.

[46zilzal]

Why is it a bogus claim? Do you not trust Jeff?

Stop reacting like an exposed nerve to things you know nothing about.
Guy might have a very valuable way to look at the races but ONE system changing the NATIONAL ODDS? TWO WORDS: PROVE IT ......

ONE way of looking at the races changes the entire NATIONAL scene? Crappola! Not even Beyer numbers (the most used aspect of evaluating a race) have ever done that.

[ryesteve]

I thought this board was full of opinionated people, but I also thought they knew how to take sarcasm.
When it becomes a mantra, such "sarcasm" becomes the Internet equivalent of flicking the back of someone's earlobe every 2 minutes. You apparently weren't going to stop until you got a reaction, so I was happy to oblige.

[njcurveball]

In the right hands, I can certainly believe that Jcapper horses can affect the tote. Why is that so difficult for you to believe?

They don't call it pari-mutuel for nothing....and the whales are bigger than you think, if what I've heard is true....

Well I leave you with this statement and then drop it. It is a crying shame that the ryesteve stuck his nose in and just poured gasolione on this. I hope his cult leader Jeff appreciated all of the bad press.

Here is the statement, Mr. Moderator, on YOUR board. Notice how this "alarming trend" was happening at tracks ALL OVER NORTH AMERICA! I guess that included Canada but not Mexico. ;-)

IN RACE AFTER RACE, not in a race here or race there, BUT RACE AFTER RACE IN TRACKS ALL OVER NORTH AMERICA.

If you need me to tell you why this is a BOGUS CLAIM, we can sit at the computer and watch track after track where this does NOT happen.

Geez, I hope all the Jcapper people aren't like ryesteve, it probably is a great program, shame he ruined it's reputation.

Originally Posted by Jeff P
Earlier this year I noticed an alarming trend. At tracks all over North America, the program's more obvious contenders were consistently opening as the heavy favorite whenever the first flash of betting for a new race appeared on the toteboard. In race after race, the top ranked JRating horse was opening at 4/5 or 6/5 or 8/5 while the actual morning line favorite would be something like 3/1 or 7/2 or 4/1. It was obvious that somebody somewhere was playing some very serious money these horses. On weekends, at tracks like AQU, GP, and SA I'd estimate somewhere between $10,000 and $15,000 in JCapper money alone was landing on these horses in the win pools. Throughout the months of January and February, 2006 - when I first really started noticing this trend, the odds on my contenders would (thankfully) almost always eventually drift up as the betting on each race played out. But the handwriting was clearly on the wall.

[PaceAdvantage]

Dude, why is this so difficult for you to believe? You still haven't answered why it isn't possible for some big money players to take hold of JCapper, like what they see, and push it hard.....if anyone is going to notice this, it's going to be the program's creator, not YOU, since you don't even use the program!

Who should I believe more, the creator of the program who has a very good reputation on this board as a stand-up guy, or YOU, a guy who has NEVER EVEN USED JCapper....

I hate to tell you this, but in my opinion, the reputation being sullied here is definitely NOT JCapper's.....

[46zilzal]

still crappola. I COULD JUST AS SOON SAY it was Sartin software that does it, but common sense and years of experience knowing that a very good program has many many intepretations., but it does not.

THEORETICALLY yes, but I would wager BIG TIME against it being even CLOSE to reality.

When one thinks about such a brash claim it gets even funnier. Hell the sheets or Thorograph couldn't even make that claim so some little program can? funny stuff here I have a bridge for sale too.

[PaceAdvantage]

still crappola. I COULD JUST AS SOON SAY it was Sartin software that does it, but common sense and years of experience knowing that a very good program has many many intepretations., but it does not.

THEORETICALLY yes, but I would wager BIG TIME against it being even CLOSE to reality.

So you two are calling Jeff P a liar? Is that the bottom line?

Or are you saying he is misinterpreting the data he was seeing?

[46zilzal]

So you two are calling Jeff P a liar? Is that the bottom line?

Or are you saying he is misinterpreting the data he was seeing?
I think he believes he has the holy grail and couldn't prove it.

I could look at Sartin program data all day long and in it's ability to find the logical contenders and make just as misguided a claim.

THERE IS NO HOLY GRAIL.

[PaceAdvantage]

I think he believes he has the holy grail and couldn't prove it.

Funny, I never in a million years thought that Jeff P considered his program the Holy Grail. Weird how two different people can read the same exact posts and come away with totally opposite conclusions.

[46zilzal]

REPEAT until the cows come home NO SINGLE EVALUATION procedure can, single handedly change NATIONAL ODDS as claimed. NOTHING out there is that different to be able to make even CLOSE to that claim.

[linrom1]

Mr. Jcrapper® could perform a scientific test of his system for all to see. How about posting some BC selections? If any one of them hits, I am a believer. :jump:

[46zilzal]

Mr. Jcrapper® could perform a scientific test of his system for all to see. How about posting some BC selections? If any one of them hits, I am a believer.

that would be an unfair test unless he stuck to races with enough info to evaluate: sprint, distaff, juvenile races, classic

[Tee]

REPEAT until the cows come home NO SINGLE EVALUATION procedure can, single handedly change NATIONAL ODDS as claimed. NOTHING out there is that different to be able to make even CLOSE to that claim.

I don't believe the quoted piece from Jeff P is talking about changing national odds, more like creating odds with large opening wagers.

[njcurveball]

Mr. Pace Advantage, DUDE!

This is getting way out of hand by people like yourself and Ryesteve pouring gasoline over a tiny spark.

First off, if ALL 100 Jcapper people are playing the SAME horse to win EVERY race, there is NO WAY for it to be profitable.

I would like to simply see the stat of the top ranked Jrating horse for each track and what the ROI is for it.

Secondly, there are only 100 Users. There are over 30 tracks running most days and that is over 300 races. So am I calling someone a liar who says that CONSISTENTLY their #1 rated horse is bet down across North America.?

OF COURSE I AM!

AND would I call someone a liar who says that CONSISTENTLY their 100 users were betting $10,000 to $15,000 per race over 300 races!

YOU BET I AM DUDE!

IN FACT, I would be willing to bet that the #1 Jranked horse loses money unless the odds go over 4-1. Guess what, DUDE! That is how just about every other piece of software works as well.

YOU need prices to win and to get prices you need to be different from the crowd.

If there are 100 Jcapper people betting $10,000 to $15,000 on ONE HORSE EARLY In the betting, then they will not win, no matter how good his software is!

AND I can sit here with you at the computer and find pools at 20 tracks every day where there isn't even $5,000 in the win pool with 3 minutes to post, Dude.

Jeff probably is a great guy, who wrote a great program. It probably uses pace and speed like every other program on the market.

You have a great board here, so keep up the good work and let these sparks just fizzle out.

Jim

[Steveh]

I'm curious why you have such a hard on about someone limiting sales of a product. Didn't want to get into in the other thread, but here should be fine.

I agree. I don't have the program nor do I have your's. I believe both programs have value and I can certainly understand why the owners would want to protect thier customers and themself. I just see no point in knocking something just because I can't have it.

[46zilzal]

I don't believe the quoted piece from Jeff P is talking about changing national odds, more like creating odds with large opening wagers.
having just read his website statement, I too believe what is said there and what was said here were not the same thing.

[46zilzal]

I just see no point in knocking something just because I can't have it.
what is being knocked are these wild outrageous claims that a single software package can change national betting patterns over and over. that is bogus as a three dollar bill. One would have to be very gullible and naive to even entertain that claim for 5 seconds.

[bettheoverlay]

I don't quite grasp the hostility here, but for what its worth, the suspicious betting patterns ocurred when there was a free demo being offered.

Its not a cult, mostly a very good database query program, you will not make money betting the J1 horse in every race in any odds range.

[46zilzal]

no hostility just amazed that anyone could fall for the claims

[Cesario!]

I'm sorry I got involved in this on the other thread.

But, honestly, aren't there better things to talk about? Tomorrow is the freaking Breeders' Cup! Study hard, play hard.

[PaceAdvantage]

no hostility just amazed that anyone could fall for the claims

I take great offense that you still imply that Jeff is lying. If anything, he is being misinterpreted by some folks on this board who, for whatever reason, have a bone to pick.

[PaceAdvantage]

Mr. Pace Advantage, DUDE!

This is getting way out of hand by people like yourself and Ryesteve pouring gasoline over a tiny spark.

Dude, I haven't poured anything. I've simply asked some questions and have tried to understand where this is all coming from.

First off, if ALL 100 Jcapper people are playing the SAME horse to win EVERY race, there is NO WAY for it to be profitable.

AHHH, BUT IF TRUE, THERE WOULD DEFINITELY BE AN IMPACT ON THE TOTE, ESPECIALLY EARLY ON WHEN THERE IS VERY LITTLE MONEY IN THE POOL. I think you may have answered your own question.

Doesn't matter whether the figure is a money maker....we're talking about tote impact here, not whether or not the fig is a long term money maker. If enough heavy hitters think it's worth pounding for a while, and these heavy hitters bet early, YOU WILL SEE IT REFLECTED IN THE OPENING ODDS.

I would like to simply see the stat of the top ranked Jrating horse for each track and what the ROI is for it.

Completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Secondly, there are only 100 Users. There are over 30 tracks running most days and that is over 300 races. So am I calling someone a liar who says that CONSISTENTLY their #1 rated horse is bet down across North America.?

Across North America could simply mean NYRA, Louisiana Downs, and Southern California....doesn't have to mean every single track in the country....dude....


AND would I call someone a liar who says that CONSISTENTLY their 100 users were betting $10,000 to $15,000 per race over 300 races!

He never said this, did he? Dude?

IN FACT, I would be willing to bet that the #1 Jranked horse loses money unless the odds go over 4-1. Guess what, DUDE! That is how just about every other piece of software works as well.

Again, completely irrelevant to the specific issues being addressed in this thread.

YOU need prices to win and to get prices you need to be different from the crowd.

See above.

If there are 100 Jcapper people betting $10,000 to $15,000 on ONE HORSE EARLY In the betting, then they will not win, no matter how good his software is!

Again, irrelevant to the issue of whether or not a handful of heavy hitters can affect the opening flash if using the same software. As a matter of fact, in your example here, of course they will affect the opening odds. Who cares if they win or not....that's not the issue.

AND I can sit here with you at the computer and find pools at 20 tracks every day where there isn't even $5,000 in the win pool with 3 minutes to post, Dude.

Then obviously, they aren't playing THOSE tracks, are they, dude?

Jeff probably is a great guy, who wrote a great program.

It's obvious you don't really believe this.

It probably uses pace and speed like every other program on the market.

How would you know?

You have a great board here, so keep up the good work and let these sparks just fizzle out.

THANKS dude! I appreciate the kind words.

As for sparks, remember, as I paraphrase the words of one William Joel, "I didn't start the fire"

[ryesteve]

Completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
Again, completely irrelevant to the specific issues being addressed in this thread.
See above.
Again, irrelevant.

This is a pretty good summary of nj's comments. Attempting a dialog with someone with such a bad case of ADD can be quite a challenge.

Aside from him, it further amazes me how it is that someone whose handicapping revolves around arcane energy distribution calculations could have such a frightfully weak grasp of basic math that they believe "Donald Trump" sized bets are required to make an 8-1 ML open at 6-5 on a tuesday night at Retama.

Thanks PA, for trying to inject some common sense into this.

[twindouble]

I come across so many losers that get the idea there's always someone or a group lurking in the back ground that pulling strings causing them all their losses. Today it's computer programs that manipulate the odds, data bases cranking out sure winning methods, causing more paranoia so they surrender to it then fail at what hasn't changed at all.
Here's an example of how crazy things can get thinking that way. Take a look at yesterdays 7th race at Mountaineer and explain to me why a horse like Noble Luck would pay $60.00 to win in a 7 horse field. Just handicap the race and tell me you wouldn't find that horse playable, if not to win just to use in the gimmicks. Where were the wise guys, software people and manipulators with that race?

Weather I bet the horse or not isn't the point so don't accuse me of red boarding. What I did is my business. I want just your opinion of the race if you have the PP's.

Good luck,

T.D.

[JimG]

I hereby nominate this thread for strangest thread of the year. Any seconds?

[twindouble]

I hereby nominate this thread for strangest thread of the year. Any seconds?

Yes your right, everything said don't make any sense including my post. Your comment will ware on me for rest of my life. Oh yes, good luck with the breeders cup.



T.D.

[46zilzal]

I take great offense that you still imply that Jeff is lying. If anything, he is being misinterpreted by some folks on this board who, for whatever reason, have a bone to pick.
I never said that this fellow is lying. He was SELLING a product and my impression is that he naively believes HIS product is somehow (or his sales pitch states) saying that it is SO EFFECTIVE that it has revolutionized odds all across the wagering spectrum. A claim that is self promoting and impossible to substantiate pure and simple.

Ranks up there with selling the Brooklyn bridge. AGAIN, from the top: NO SINGLE SOFTWARE SYSTEM HAS SUCH A NATIONAL EFFECT ON THE ODDS. That's its.

[Tom]

I dunno about odds, but it seems J Capper sure stirs up the crazies! Must have some moon rocks in there somewhere! :lol:

and 46....Mr REDboard himself - you have nothing to contribute here - you, who post after the fact readouts with hefty "SEE!" comments, never explaing, never posting ahead of post time, never putting up data on how many losers go along with those winners!

Hehehehe.....

The Attack of the Killer Tomatos made more sense than this thread!
I just love the bar room brawl threads!

[GameTheory]

I never said that this fellow is lying. He was SELLING a product and my impression is that he naively believes HIS product is somehow (or his sales pitch states) saying that it is SO EFFECTIVE that it has revolutionized odds all across the wagering spectrum. A claim that is self promoting and impossible to substantiate pure and simple.But he's not selling it anymore. He made the claim to back up his REFUSAL to sell more copies -- not to sell more.

Ranks up there with selling the Brooklyn bridge. AGAIN, from the top: NO SINGLE SOFTWARE SYSTEM HAS SUCH A NATIONAL EFFECT ON THE ODDS. That's its.You said that the Beyer figures don't affect the odds nationally? Of course they do -- a rather large effect because nearly everyone has them. What does affect the odds?

[Tom]

Quote:
First off, if ALL 100 Jcapper people are playing the SAME horse to win EVERY race, there is NO WAY for it to be profitable.

AHHH, BUT IF TRUE, THERE WOULD DEFINITELY BE AN IMPACT ON THE TOTE, ESPECIALLY EARLY ON WHEN THERE IS VERY LITTLE MONEY IN THE POOL. I think you may have answered your own question.

Hahahahahaha!
Exactly why he doesn't want 200 people betting on it.

Can you spell Duh? dude? :D

[46zilzal]

here is a parallel. A guy likes Wendy's hamburgers. He tells all his friends to buy Wendy's burgers. Wendy's hamburgers begin to sell more. His response (as silly as the one here) "Well their NATIONAL sales are because of me!"

The burgers are popular for a myriad of reasons OTHER than this guy's promotion.

[JimG]

here is a parallel. A guy likes Wendy's hamburgers. He tells all his friends to buy Wendy's burgers. Wendy's hamburgers begin to sell more. His response (as silly as the one here) "Well their NATIONAL sales are because of me!"

The burgers are popular for a myriad of reasons OTHER than this guy's promotion.

That sure cleared it up for me. :rolleyes: Thanks.

[46zilzal]

But he's not selling it anymore. He made the claim to back up his REFUSAL to sell more copies -- not to sell more.

You said that the Beyer figures don't affect the odds nationally? Of course they do -- a rather large effect because nearly everyone has them. What does affect the odds?

NOT THEM ALONE and if you will read what I wrote it says WAS SELLING IT.

Odds are effected by widespread variable assessments of the merits of a horse's chances in a contest with NO SINGLE ONE OF THOSE METHODS wholly responsible.

To have some wild belief than any ONE of those assessment methods is in itself responsible for the odds changing is naive at best.

[JimG]

Yes your right, everything said don't make any sense including my post. Your comment will ware on me for rest of my life. Oh yes, good luck with the breeders cup.

T.D.

I hope my comment does not "ware" on you...because that would wear on me. Thanks for the Breeder's Cup wishes. Same to you buddy.

Jim

[joeyspicks]

Say you have "invented" a software program.....its your baby from day 1.
Lets say it effective....not a black box, however it points to value horses going off at good odds.

Now...you put it on the market....with a free trial.

After awhile you notice that the mutuals on your "value" picks are on the decline
(not an unusal thing).....but remember this is YOUR BABY....from start to finish. You are ACTUALLY PROFITABLE using this. Its an EXTREMELY intelligent act to make a decision to limit sales and stop the free trial. Whats the big deal ?

Jeff is only claiming an erosion of mutual value. He made a BUSINESS decision...
what is so hard to accept ? ?

I know of all the programs I tested....the one I wish I would have kept is JCapper. Why ? Is it the holy grail???

No no and NO! .......

What it is is UNIQUE. It generates a rating unavailable ANY WHERE ELSE! If I knew Jeff was gonna limit sales I would have bought it. Is it "better" than others I tested. Again NO....not necessarily. It depends on your style of play, etc. Having said all this I do think Jeff could sell another 50 to 100 copies without hurting himself or others ( no free trial).

I dont think being sceptical is a bad thing, but I dont thing Jeff has any reason to lie and if he chooses to limit sales thats his decision to make!

[GameTheory]

NOT THEM ALONE and if you will read what I wrote it says WAS SELLING IT.I did read that but you also said it was a SALES PITCH when it fact it was a reason for REFUSING SALES.

Odds are effected by widespread variable assessments of the merits of a horse's chances in a contest with NO SINGLE ONE OF THOSE METHODS wholly responsible.

To have some wild belief than any ONE of those assessment methods is in itself responsible for the odds changing is naive at best.Who said "wholly responsible"? Beyers affect odds. If a horse has higher Beyers than some other horse -- INDEPENDENT OF OTHER FACTORS -- than in general, that horse will have lower odds. I mean, duh? Having a higher Beyer will cause some people to bet on a horse, or bet more on it. Therefore, it affects the odds.

Your Wendy's example doesn't work. It would work if there were only 30-40 Wendy's, and you had a few rich friends that bought 10,000 burgers from each Wendy's everyday. With Wendy's, the idea is silly, but with horse-racing, that is quite possible because your rich friend never has to leave his living room. You act as if "national" means something in this internet age. When I play, I'm betting every track running that day. If I were a rich whale and I happened to be using Jcapper, I'd could EASILY be affecting the opening odds on its favored horses "nationally". It ONLY TAKES ONE GUY.

[46zilzal]

I'm wasting my time here .......goodbye

[Tom]

That sure cleared it up for me. :rolleyes: Thanks.

Yeah, the guy's a re real linguist! :liar:

[Murph]

I come across so many losers that get the idea there's always someone or a group lurking in the back ground that pulling strings causing them all their losses. Today it's computer programs that manipulate the odds, data bases cranking out sure winning methods, causing more paranoia so they surrender to it then fail at what hasn't changed at all.
Here's an example of how crazy things can get thinking that way. Take a look at yesterdays 7th race at Mountaineer and explain to me why a horse like Noble Luck would pay $60.00 to win in a 7 horse field. Just handicap the race and tell me you wouldn't find that horse playable, if not to win just to use in the gimmicks. Where were the wise guys, software people and manipulators with that race?

Weather I bet the horse or not isn't the point so don't accuse me of red boarding. What I did is my business. I want just your opinion of the race if you have the PP's.

Good luck,

T.D.
Thorostats 3rd rated selection had the highest speed figure of the field
three races back. They were dropping him another rung into a soft type
of field for an upper level claiming race.

30/1 seems generous :)

Murph

[GameTheory]

I'm wasting my time here .......goodbyeOh my god -- what are the magic words that will make you do that??? I need to know!

[46zilzal]

no single words just a demonstrated inability to understand basic concepts in ENGLISH will do it.

[JimG]

no single words just a demonstrated inability to understand basic concepts in ENGLISH will do it.

No comprende senor. Porfavor, tiene la dia muy bueno.

[Tom]

Si

[karlskorner]

If Jcapper believes that his program is affecting the Tote board, than so be it. If he wants to limit the amount of the programs sold, because of this belief, that is his business. How many times have I sat with a " sleeper " and saw the odds knocked down and refuse to believe that others might have seen the same thing I saw.

[njcurveball]

Quote:
First off, if ALL 100 Jcapper people are playing the SAME horse to win EVERY race, there is NO WAY for it to be profitable.

AHHH, BUT IF TRUE, THERE WOULD DEFINITELY BE AN IMPACT ON THE TOTE, ESPECIALLY EARLY ON WHEN THERE IS VERY LITTLE MONEY IN THE POOL. I think you may have answered your own question.

Hahahahahaha!
Exactly why he doesn't want 200 people betting on it.

Can you spell Duh? dude? :D

Tom, This was EXACTLY MY REASON WHY I DID NOT BELIEVE THE QUOTE! I cannot believe people on this board believe that in 300 races a day, the #1 Jrating horse consistently opens at 4-5 and the ML favorite MUCH HIGHER!

You thought you said something smart here, but basically have put your foot squarely in your mouth!

Check the pools at EVERY track and tell me HOW MANY times a horse 6-1 and up on the ML opens at 4-5.

I think this was a great thread, since I thought this board was filled with sharpies.

BOY WAS I WRONG!

[njcurveball]

I hereby nominate this thread for strangest thread of the year. Any seconds?

I agree Jim! If people here have nothing better to do than take simple line of sarcasm and turn it into a raging fire than they really are not winners.

People like Ryesteve, the Moderator, Tom, and a few others seem to just want to fight. I didn't tell anyone to shut the F up, but I am not going to sit back and have them try to post crap that isn't true.

I really was liking this board, but it does seem that it is too much like a class of high school freshman.

I would sugges to the Moderator to delete this thread, apologize to all involved and get the board back to caring about horse racing and not how they can try to cut down someone else.

Jim

[46zilzal]

I have a GREAT program based upon sound Sartin principles. Not only myself, but over 300 people on two web sites would agree that it is a very good program

BUT

It does not work at every track
It does not work everyday
It's findings are open to interpretation of the users.

It has just as much influence on the odds as anything else. If Bill Gates used it on the inner track at Aqueuduct the odds would drop. It points out logical horses like most other programs do.

[Tom]

I think this was a great thread, since I thought this board was filled with sharpies.

BOY WAS I WRONG!

From obsessive to attack dog......you might not believe it, but carrying of for two days about it is, well, rather juvenile, don' t you think?

People have tried to lighten it up but, Noooooooooo. NJ's right and everyone is wrong. Boo hoooooooooo hoo!

Do you and Stve know how ridiculious you both look here?
But, thanks for the laughs.

[PaceAdvantage]

Tom, This was EXACTLY MY REASON WHY I DID NOT BELIEVE THE QUOTE! I cannot believe people on this board believe that in 300 races a day, the #1 Jrating horse consistently opens at 4-5 and the ML favorite MUCH HIGHER!

That's not what he claimed.....jeez.....you're completely exaggerating

[njcurveball]

[QUOTE=Tom]

Do you and Stve know how ridiculious you both look here?
QUOTE]

I know you look even worse. :lol:

WHY did you even put your 2 cents in Tom? Seriously?

Oh wait, you must think you are right and everyone else is wrong too. :bang:

[PaceAdvantage]

ok....you're right....time to kill this thread