Border Patrol Agents Jailed

[JustRalph]

Try this one on for size. You think we are serious about protecting the border? Think again................

I have seen reports that these agents failed to "report" the incident through proper channels. Which means they dodged the paperwork. Which makes me wonder what else they have failed to report.......but 10+ years in prison for chasing smugglers i.e. doing their job........seems a little tough. Shooting a smuggler in the ass should get them a medal. And people ask me why I got out of Law Enforcement?

http://www.avpress.com/n/25/1025_s11.hts

[Tom]

Lou Dobbs has been covering this for a long time, even has a fund set up for them.

My question.....where the hell has the rest the so called media been on this?
Very hard to have any repsect for the jsutice department of this country, and in fact, I have none. Dirty little toads - they should have let Fllight 93 find it's target.

[rrpic6]

60 Minutes or Nightline should get this story ASAP. No way those cops should spend a day in jail. What kind of motivation do their co-workers have now? Do they shake hands and welcome the illegals?

[bigmack]

The story has been huge around these parts and you see little of it on the National front. How odd.

They had the integrity to not take a plea deal that would have landed them with a year and they end up getting 10?

I agree with Jesse Jackson - No Justice, No Peace.

[JustRalph]

What kind of motivation do their co-workers have now?

As a former Police Officer I can tell you that this is the real long term damage from this kind of prosecution. If you want a perfect example; Google what has been happening with the Cincinnati Ohio Police Department over the last five years.

[Tom]

The time for lawfully protecting our borders is long past.
Perhaps those that did care will take up the role of trainers for minutemen and other types who will evolve into real lawmen and take over. Thiscountry's farce of law and order will have to give way to a new force. Ex-military, militia, who knows. The security of this country will only come from the people - the governemtnis ded -- it cannot and will not function anymore. It is time to rise and take back our nation from the greedy little bastards who have corrupted it. Our salvation may only be possible throuw military coup. iti s time to scrap the gov we have now, and those who pollute it.

[Bala]

There are times when I truly think this administration is insane. In the past Bush has called the minute man project – vigilantes. And now this.......

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,244193,00.html
http://edition.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/

Persecuted because they were doing their F***ing jobs -- two U.S. Border agents who were convicted and sentenced to 11 and 12 year prison terms for shooting a Mexican drug smuggler who had crossed our border illegally with nearly 740lbs. of marijuana and physically assaulted one of the agents.

This outrageous injustice took place near El Paso, Texas. A well known hotbed of illegal activity, where drug smugglers, and violent gang members illegally crossing from Mexico are often encountered. On February 17, 2005, U.S. Border Agent Ignacio Ramos (a former nominee for border patrol agent of the Year), and Jose Compean attempted to apprehend a fleeing illegal alien at our border.

Yesterday, both are in prison while their appeals are being heard. To make matters even worse, this same illegal alien who was given immunity for his testimony, has since been apprehended again for bringing illegal drugs into the U.S. He was again freed, and is now suing the U.S. for $5 million claiming his civil rights were violated.

I am sick, sick of Bush kissing Vincent Fox ass.
Cocaine Legal In Mexico (http://ezinearticles.com/?Cocaine-Legal-In-Mexico;-Fox-Compelling-Poor-to-Come-to-US?&id=188998)




_____________________________________________
No matter what other nations may say about US, immigration
is still the sincerest form of flattery ~ Bala

[DJofSD]

I heard the prosecuting attorney, Sutton, I believe, interviewed yesterday. The guy is dangerous and is as far as I'm concerned just as bad as Rose Bird.

God help this country when a Mexican drug runner, caught red-handed with hundreds of kilos of drugs, is found to have a better standing before the law than those we employee to enforce the laws of the country.

[DJofSD]

I am sick, sick of Bush kissing Vincent Fox ass.

You need to update your political realities: Fox is now out.

[Bala]

DJofSD,

Of Course you are right. The new president of Mexico is far left FELIPE CALDERÓN.

However, my understanding is that the Fox/Bush model of cooperation is still in play. Please correct me if I'm inaccurate.




_____________________________________________
No matter what other nations may say about US, immigration
is still the sincerest form of flattery ~ Bala

[Bala]

...far left... Oops, I meant right.

[46zilzal]

Oops, I meant right.
a lot of this baloney comes from the historical "Right revenend," people told that being LEFT handed was somehow against God, the RIGHT hand of God etc. etc.

The left hand of god is a derogatory term for one who performs objectional acts in God's name.

then it is no big surprise that the direction right is also synonymous as the opposite position of wrong.

Somehow, at the subliminal level, this idea persists.

[DJofSD]

However, my understanding is that the Fox/Bush model of cooperation is still in play. Please correct me if I'm inaccurate.


No, you're not wrong. Just read www.spp.gov to find out what's in store for our children's future.

[Tom]

The border is a joke.
Calling this a sovereign nation is too.
We better rise up and act soon, befreo it is too late.
God Bless the Minutemen.....may their powder be always dry. *CLICK*

We are arguing what to do about China in another thread, but what do we do about the USA? It no longer represents either the people or thier interests. And neither party has the cahoonas to do anyting about it.

"We have seen the enemy, it is US!" - Pogo, 1969.

[Ponyplayr]

This incident is unacceptable. We need to make every Border Agent report to the shooting range and teach them the difference between the ass and the heart.

Shoot them.. and toss the corpse back across the border! Then go to dinner!

[Tom]

This incident is unacceptable. We need to make every Border Agent report to the shooting range and teach them the difference between the ass and the heart.

Shoot them.. and toss the corpse back across the border! Then go to dinner!

This has to be the clear message to all agents - it's a big desrert - kill em and hide em.

DO NOT BELIEVE FOR A SECOND THAT YOUR COUNTRY WILL STAND BEHIND YOU - IT WILLNOT. UNCLE SAM HAS NO CREDIBILITY.

It's is very hard to believe in this country anymore - very hard.
I see it as the next France - all talk, no walk.

[JustRalph]

This has to be the clear message to all agents - it's a big desrert - kill em and hide em.

DO NOT BELIEVE FOR A SECOND THAT YOUR COUNTRY WILL STAND BEHIND YOU - IT WILLNOT. UNCLE SAM HAS NO CREDIBILITY.

It's is very hard to believe in this country anymore - very hard.
I see it as the next France - all talk, no walk.

from a cops viewpoint, this is what they are thinking now. More often, they just stop doing their jobs.

[Tom]

from a cops viewpoint, this is what they are thinking now. More often, they just stop doing their jobs.

Hope they don't get run over by the National Disgrace, er, Guard, running away from armed drug dealers!

(discalimer - not the GUARD itself, but those FOOLS who control it.....and the commander -n-drag):mad:

[delayjf]

I still have faith that Bush will do the right thing. I'm guessing that with everything going on he really has not had a chance to review the case.

Also, shame on that Jury for convicting two border patol agents. From what I hear the Border patrol is not very well liked in El Paso - go figure.

To add insult to injury the smuggler who has since been caught smuggling AGAIN and given immunity to testify for both infractions is now sueing the US for 5 million for Civil Rights violations.

Can you really sue the Gov for civil rights violations if they occured while you were in the commission of a crime?

[JustRalph]

Can you really sue the Gov for civil rights violations if they occured while you were in the commission of a crime?

oh yes. It is the foundation of every damn Police Organizations rules and policies. The bad guys can do anything they want. But the cops have to follow strict measures and policies designed to "protect the civil rights of criminals" It is the reason we have some of the problems we have. It is the reason that Death Row inmates are on death row for 20 years before they get their punishment. We created (more accurately, lawyers created) a system that becomes a money maker for attorneys and judges and provides very little justice along the way. it is nothing more than a system that siphons off money from the public in the name of "justice" and legalities.

Extreme examples abound. But you never hear anyone talk about reforming the system or making substantial changes because it would put lawyers and legislators out of business.

[DJofSD]

Can you really sue the Gov for civil rights violations if they occured while you were in the commission of a crime?

GODdammit -- where's Jack when you really want him?

[Tom]

Bush will not da anything until it can benefit HIM.
He has been contacted many times by numerous elected officals and soi far has not had the decency to acknowledge their comments, let alon get off his fat ass and do something about it.

So when the dipstick talked about freeing up agent to go after drug smugglers Tuesday, it became clear to me this boy needs agood bitch-slippin's to knock some sense into that head full of mush of his.

This guy is either the dumbest jerk around of the coldest SOB. He has less of a clue than Charlie McCarthy.

[DJofSD]

Apparently one of the two agents was attacked in prison. Seems like they were sent to a medium security prison and put into the general population. It did not take long for the scum bags to figure out who the new meat was. Rep. Duncan Hunter has sent a rather pointed letter to Bush asking him in a diplomatic fashion what the f*ck is going on.

As a side note, a comment was made during on the radio while this story was being broke that something like 66% of the prison population is there due to ICE activity. Connect the dots.

And then there's this little tid bit from today's LA Times:
Man receives 862-year term in gang rape
After eluding police for more than a decade, Fernando Maldonado, 35, is sentenced in the sexual attacks on two women in 1991.
By Tami Abdollah
Times Staff Writer

February 6, 2007

A man who gang-raped two Los Angeles women was sentenced Monday to 862 years in prison without the possibility of parole, after eluding police for more than a decade.

Fernando Maldonado, 35, also known as Hector Santos Padilla, was convicted in November of 100 counts of gang rape and sexual assault for the Feb. 8, 1991, attacks against the women.

And further down you read:
After eluding police for more than a decade, Maldonado, an undocumented immigrant from Honduras, was picked up by border police in Amado, Ariz., in 2002 on suspicion of drug offenses in San Francisco and Oakland as well as the rapes in Los Angeles.

Speaking from the bench, Kennedy-Powell said that while the debate over human rights for undocumented individuals has merit, "we look at someone like Mr. Maldonado, who has no right to be in this country … has never done one useful thing in his life, and supported himself as a two-bit drug dealer."

[kenwoodallpromos]

The Bush admin wants them dead.

[Tom]

Ken - I absolutley agree.
Homeland Security admitted it lied outright about his case to Congress.
Bush has his stooge Tony Snow lying thorugh his teeth - just like the fat guy with the horn-rimmed glasses that lied for Saddam. the attorney general is lying, and he is a Bush appointee, as is the judge. Three jurors have come forward and said they were coerced for a verditct. Medical evidence backs the story of the two agents- the scumbag drug dealer was not shot in the back.
This is the Bush Doctrine - back drug dealers over law enforcement. Next time you go to the track, and stand up for the National Anthem, think about these two guys. And then sit back down. Great country.....debatable.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54110

[kenwoodallpromos]

There is no way any law enforcement people aare accidiently putmin general population like they were.

[JustRalph]

There is no way any law enforcement people aare accidiently putmin general population like they were.

depends on what state you are in. There are different rules based on the state. The fact that they are border patrol agents doesn't fly for segregation on its own. The chance of encountering someone who would recognize you as a Law enforcement person is low, (as a border agent) unless you just had your name and picture broadcast over every damn TV in the jurisdiction you are about to be locked up in. Therein lies the rub. They raise a ruckus publicly and it costs them their safety inside.

Then there is always the chance that the corrupt assholes running the prison let your identity out of the bag. This can be your worse nightmare. Or it can work for you. Depends on where you are. I know cops who went to jail and were basically protected by the guards because of who they were. But if you are not viewed as deserving by the corrections people........you can be made a target. Corrections is a nasty, nasty business. It just depends on where you are. I have seen it while a Deputy in SoCal and as a cop in Ohio. In Socal the prisons are a nightmare in some places. In Southern Ohio I watched Johhny Paycheck walk around the prison yard with his "buddy" carrying his guitar case. It was a laid back atmosphere wherein nobody cared much about who or what you did. It was just "doing time" without a lot of scandal or drug smuggling etc. Although this was not a max security prison. I have been inside those in Ohio and they are two different beasts. It all depends on where you go.

[DJofSD]

depends on what state you are in. There are different rules based on the state.

I believe these are Federal prisons so there should not be any difference whether it is New Mexico or Maine.

[kenwoodallpromos]

News said they cut a deal to be only in a minimal security prison with white-collar types, not medium security with the terrorist, child rapist, illegal alien dope dealers that get it easier than they should in medium security. Bush's peole made sure they ended up partying with the low-lifes instead of the high-rollers.

[Tom]

Here's the deal - RAmos was told he would be serving in a minimum security prison. He was lied to.
He chose GenPop so he could have more access to his family.
then after that, he gets dumped on - again.
They wnat him dead. The bush gang.
This whol etrial was a farce. There is NO evidence at all - not a single shred - that anyone in their right mind could convict theses guys on. The only real evidence backs thier stories.
It is uncanny how many people stonealling on this deal are close to the Bush crime family. And homeland Security has lied through thier teeth to congress.
Chertoff is certainly hiding something. He should be held in contempt of Congress and removed from office.

The implications of this are scary - HS has no credibilit and cannot be trusted. Obviously, all the "extra powers" we have let them have in the war on terror must be ceased at once - the wire taps, secret interogations, everyting. HS has proven itself a threat to our freedom. In fact, COngess must vote to disband HS and repeal the Patriot Act asap.
We can no longer trust anyone in the adminstration with our freedoms. They have blown it.

I'll take my chances with Al Qeda.

[Secretariat]

I still have faith that Bush will do the right thing. I'm guessing that with everything going on he really has not had a chance to review the case.

You got to be kidding me. I realize he's been busy with all the stuff like below, but you'd kind of think this might be something he could take a look at soon whiel these guys are in jail.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/02/20070202-7.html

[Tom]

Bush do the right thing?
Uh, not in my liftime.
HE is the one trying to disolve our borders, destroy our sovereignty.
HE is the one who has no respect for this country.
He has cost more oney, more lives, more divivsin than OBL ever did.
He has hurt this country far more than Al Qeda.
And he has to pay for it.

Here is how we impeach the SOB.

Congress has for years handed off the power to make fast track trade deal to the president, while constitutionally, it is THIER duty. By accepting the pwer and using, every president has violated the constitution, and could be impeached. But only one is still in offioce. So we say oops on the others and nanil this bastard with violation of his oath and operating illegally.

Congress has no right to assign it's constitututional powers to anyone. And Bush has no right to use them. I think legally, we can take out the Bush trash with this approach.

[JustRalph]

The most powerful government officials are the impaneled members of a jury. they failed in this case.

[bigmack]

RAMOS AND COMPEAN HAVE BEEN POLITICAL PRISONERS OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FOR 23 DAYS!

The DHS Inspector General’s office asserted it had documentary evidence that alleged the following five things about Ramos and Compean:

They confessed to knowingly shooting at an unarmed suspect;

They stated during the interrogation they did not believe the suspect was a threat to them at the time of the shooting;

They stated that day they “wanted to shoot a Mexican”;

They were belligerent to investigators;

They destroyed evidence and lied to investigators.


It now turns out that Elizabeth Redman (Assistant Inspector General for Investigations) and Richard Skinner (DHS Inspector General): lied to the United States Congress! Give them a call at 202-254-4100 and ask them why they lied. Then call the following numbers and demand the immediate release of Ramos and Compean!

White House: 202-456-1111
Congress: 866-340-9281
Attorney General Alberto Gonzales: 202-514-2001
Prosecuting Attorney Office (Johnny Sutton & Debra Kanof): 210-384-7400

[bigmack]

Thanks to JustRalph for starting this thread and to Tom, rrpic6, Bala (come back Bala), DJofSD, Ponyplayr, delayjf & kenwood & The Great Sec

I've personally hired phone workers to call legislative offices for the release of these two agents. Good news may soon be forthcoming.

Now all this thread needs is a sanctimonious Canadian to tell us how hateful we are as a result of Mexican drug smuggler getting shot in the backside. :lol:

Sec, gotcha covered on the edit. Thanks for your non-partisan mindfulness

[Secretariat]

Bigmack,

Though I'm a Dem you missed me. I also called Gonazales office about this. it is shameful.

[ozpunter]

throughout the world we have the weakest bunch of polictically correct wimps, left or right ,wanting only line there own pockets, how come there are so many millionaire pollies who first elected had verry little , sorry I digress, troops in Iraq can't shoot to protect themselves without aproval,otherwise they're court martialled one of the reasons why the massive death toll and the biggest disgrace the Pendeleton soldiers being jailed on enemy evidence.
Bush is pathetic the Dems are part of the Al-Quaeda team both go after Border Patrol because they both want (Knowingly) cheap labour for their homes.
All this homeland security is part of big brother and when will dumbasses wake up they're after us ,not the terrorists.
Stand up you gutless politicians and pleeeze stop this loony left mantra of Global warming, it doesn't exist its colder than 40 years ago. But there is huge money to be made out this pseudo science.
Oh we can go on forever

[BIG RED]

:ThmbUp:

[Secretariat]

Good to see Feinstein's attempting to deal with this.

http://www.dailybulletin.com/ci_5223310

“At the same time, the Senate Judiciary Committee, at the request of Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., has agreed to hold hearings on the agents' case as early as the end of the month. Feinstein has said she is concerned the agents' prison sentences were too harsh and that questions about the case need to be answered.

…

“I strongly believe that the sentences in this case are too extreme given the criminal background of Mr. Aldrete-Davila and his possession of large quantities of drugs, and given the fact that Mr. Aldrete-Davila had physically resisted at least one attempt by agents Ramos and Compean to bring him into custody," Feinstein wrote in her letter to Gonzales.

In addition, to my knowledge, neither of the agents had prior convictions or any other aggravating circumstances to warrant particularly harsh treatment under the law. Yet these men were given sentences that some individuals who are convicted of murder wouldn't receive."

[Secretariat]

It is strange to me GW does not take advantage of this immigration and trade issue with Mexico.

He has blown it on the two guards letting them rot in prison, and now seems more interested in serving Mexican truck drivers than our own. I can understand inspecting the trucks,but these guys don't even have US licenses. His stance on this gets more and more bizarre..

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070223/ap_on_go_pr_wh/mexican_trucks

Critics bash Mexican truck decision
By LESLIE MILLER, Associated Press Writer
Fri Feb 23

WASHINGTON - The news that Mexican trucks will be allowed to haul freight deeper into the United States drew an angry reaction Friday from labor leaders, safety advocates and members of Congress.

They said Mexico has substandard trucks and low-paid drivers that will threaten national security, cost thousands of jobs and endanger motorists on the northern side of the Mexican border.

[DJofSD]

If I recall correctly, the reason for the trucks now being able to haul further into the US is becuase they're letting us inspect them before they drive across the border and they must meet US safety regulations.

[Tom]

I'd be more interested in what they are hauling in here.

[bigmack]

Bush to the rescue. Outro for the duo.

[jonnielu]

The border is a joke.
Calling this a sovereign nation is too.
We better rise up and act soon, befreo it is too late.
God Bless the Minutemen.....may their powder be always dry. *CLICK*

We are arguing what to do about China in another thread, but what do we do about the USA? It no longer represents either the people or thier interests. And neither party has the cahoonas to do anyting about it.

"We have seen the enemy, it is US!" - Pogo, 1969.


Sovereign citizenship is the rightful and lawful status that you were born in possession of. Provided that you were born in one of the 50 states that make up the United States of America. This rightful status was claimed by the Declaration of Independence (http://web.archive.org/web/20031204152557/http://www.taxbusterguide.com/declaration.htm) and is inherent to you by virtue of that declaration and the Treaty of Paris. Your Sovereignty along with other rights enumerated with the first ten amendments of the Constitution, known as the "Bill of Rights" are long established and many times affirmed as "unalienable". You are endowed by the creator with these rights, they are yours to have, but you must also hold them.

While they cannot be taken or canceled by the government, they can be lost or signed away by you. Lost when too many people are unaware of their own Sovereignty and are unwilling to take on the responsibility of self-government, relying instead on politicians to "do the right thing" without being forced to.

Signed away when you think that you need the government to take care of you at someone elses expense, and you want the benefits and security without having to consider who is really paying for it. And, our entire society is paying dearly for it.

When Congress gets an application for social security, it sees a person that has signed up to be one of its subjects under the 14th amendment (http://web.archive.org/web/20031204152557/http://www.taxbusterguide.com/UScitizen.htm). This takes the person off of the Constitution (http://web.archive.org/web/20031204152557/http://www.taxbusterguide.com/const.html) and places them into the lawful jurisdiction of Congress. A taxpayer per federal code instead of a Citizen per the Constitution.

Sovereign, "the supreme political authority", is "we the people". Of course, the past forty years of rampant liberalism has done much to stand this whole concept upside down in too many minds. The authority is yours, not holding and excercising it is only an invitation for representatives to become tyrants.

Socialism is a bad idea that has never worked because it is a system where everything is someone elses responsibility. The American experiment in individual Sovereignty brought about tremendous success never before seen in the world. When the individual rules him/herself, the responsibility for success or failure lies with that individual, and the bountiful response to that truism can be seen all across our fruited plain.

While many people today wrongly believe that we exist only at the whimsy of the temporary occupants of the White House and Congress. The real truth is still that the only authority held by these people is ours. "We the People" authorize government through our Constitution, our Sovereignty is inherent to us as a result of the unparalleled courage of our forebearers, whom we should honor by never forgetting.

"...at the Revolution, the sovereignty devolved on the people; and they are truly the sovereigns of the country, but they are sovereigns without subjects..

with none to govern but themselves; the citizens of America are equal as fellow citizens, and as joint tenants in the sovereignty."

CHISHOLM v. GEORGIA (US) 2 Dall 419, 454, 1 L Ed 440, 455 @DALL 1793 pp. 471-472.

"Sovereignty itself is, of course, not subject to the law, for it is the author and source of law, but in our system, while sovereign powers are delegated to the agencies of government, sovereignty itself remains with the people, by whom and for whom all government exists and acts." -

"For, the very idea that one man may be compelled to hold his life, or the means of living, or any material right essential to the enjoyment of life, at the mere will of another, seems to be intolerable in any country where freedom prevails, as being the essence of slavery itself."

Yick Wo v. Hopkins, Sheriff, 118 U.S. 356.

You may want to make a copy of this excerpt and keep it handy for those times when you think of seeking permission instead of making determination.

"The individual may stand upon his constitutional rights as a citizen. He is entitled to carry on his private business in his own way. His power to contract is unlimited. He owes no duty to the state or to his neighbors to divulge his business, or to open his doors to an investigation, so far as it may tend to criminate him. He owes no such duty to the state, since he receives nothing therefrom, beyond the protection of his life and property. His rights are such as existed by the law of the land long antecedent to the organization of the state, and can only be taken from him by due process of law, and in accordance with the Constitution. Among his rights are a refusal to incriminate himself, and the immunity of himself and his property from arrest or seizure except under a warrant of the law. He owes nothing to the public as long as he does not trespass upon their rights."

Hale v. Henkel, 201 U.S. 43

The second paragraph below contains a strong statement of the sovereignty of the people.

The section is what is known as the "Brown Act" or "secret meeting law" (California Government Code).

Chapter 9

MEETINGS

Section 54950. Declaration, intent; sovereignty. In enacting this chapter, the Legislature finds and declares that the public commissions, boards and councils and other public agencies in this State exist to aid in the conduct of the people's business. It is the intent of the law that their actions be taken openly and that their deliberations be conducted openly. The people of the State do not yield their sovereignty to the agencies which serve them. The people, in delegating authority, do not give their public servants the right to decide what is good for the people to know and what is not good for them to know. The people insist on remaining informed so that they may retain control over the instruments they have created.

(Added Stats. 1953, c. 1588, p.3270, sec. 1.)

While the matter of your rights may seem a subtle detail in todays world, the holding of them may be the ultimate exercise of freedom. To hold and keep the power to create your destiny is not a small task, but by doing so you keep a dream alive. America was founded on the strength of people, it has flourished on the strength of people, it will remain, in greatness, only on the strength of people.

As a Sovereign citizen you will find that you have much more freedom. Far fewer Federal codes and laws will apply to you, and life will be much simpler. With this status, you will find that Title 26 (USC) simply will not apply to you.

This was perhaps stated best in Caha v. United States, 152 U.S., at 215, where the Supreme Court stated:


"The laws of Congress in respect to those matters do not extend into the territorial limits of the states, but have force only in the District of Columbia, and other places that are within the exclusive jurisdiction of the national government."

You do need to be aware of any tricky deals that government may try to bring you into in order to get you to step away from your rights and Sovereign status, and, into its jurisdiction. The social security scheme (http://web.archive.org/web/20031204152557/http://www.taxbusterguide.com/social_security.htm) is one such deal. All the while use the authority of your Sovereign status to direct your federal government to its Constitutional bounds.

Accept the responsibility of being Sovereign by electing a proper representative for yourself and deal with that person as your representative, not your ruler. When your vote does not elect the person who best represents you, make the person in the office your representative by constant contact and direction.

[Tom]

After tomorrow, we will no longer be a sovereign nation, we will be an "Obama-nation."

Our days of even pretending to protect our borders are over.
Chicken Little is in the WH.

[ddog]

he won't be any worse than bush, and with the economic policies :eek: those two seem to think are justified , you won't need to keep people out , the walls will go up to keep people IN!

illegals are the only group for now that will take all the "jobs" that we need to keep the place at least from collapse.

if they leave any faster than they are now it's curtains.


:(

[bigmack]

if they leave any faster than they are now it's curtains.

Really? Tell us more.