The Innocent Man

[cj]

The new book by John Grisham. I never had much of an opinion on the death penalty, though if pushed I guess I would have said I was for it before reading this book.

Pretty scary to see at least 5 men in a small town in Oklahoma wrongly convicted of murder. It definitely makes you wonder how many other innocent men are behind bars. Tough to favor the death penaltly if even one person has been wrongly executed, which surely has happened. I guess I had just turned a blind eye towards it in the past.

[delayjf]

CJ,

Actually, to my knowledge, it has never been officially proven that an innocent man has in fact been executed - convicted, and sentence to death, yes - but not actually put to death. But because it's never been proven, doesn't mean it can't or has not happened. I know some have come close, that were eventually set free.

I recall a man in Virginia that was executed. Sixty minutes did a story on him which brought into doubt his guilt. He was eventually executed despite the protest of a lot anti-death penalty groups proclaiming his innocense. In their efforts to prove his innocense and present this inmate as the poster child of what is wrong with the death penalty, they got a court order to exhume his body and conduct DNA testing which they believed would prove his innocense. Wrong - it proved he was guilty. To date they are still looking for that poster child.

Personally I believe in the death penalty, but I don't have any problems with mandating any and all DNA testing that may prove their innocense. If the evidense is conflicting, then the sentence could be commuted to life.

[Tom]

But, many have been found innocnet on death row thanks to DNA.
Enough for me, a firm believer, to insist that ALL death sentences be re-investigated, at state expense, using all modern technology available.

[chickenhead]

I'm not sure which would be worse, being an innocent man who gets executed, or sitting in prison for 20 years before getting set free.

Personally, I would choose execution. I know exactly how tough I am, and I'm not tough enough to withstand 20 years in the fed with a bunch of animals.

This whole thing goes a lot further than the death penalty.

[JustRalph]

But, many have been found innocnet on death row thanks to DNA.
Enough for me, a firm believer, to insist that ALL death sentences be re-investigated, at state expense, using all modern technology available.

That would be overkill. There are several groups out there right now who do this at no cost to the state. They examine the cases and run with the ones who are most probably innocent. I heard an interview with a spokesman for one on the radio a few weeks back. So far, the DNA cases they have looked into.........almost 90% have verified guilt and 5 more percent have been inconclusive............with less than 5 percent exonerated.

[Suff]

Michael Kramer wrote a piece in 1994 entitled "frying them is not the answer" or something similar. 23 known executions of innocent men.


Of course dead men don't speak, and very few do for them. Except maybe the ACLU or other Liberal organizations

Better 100 Guilty men go free than one innocent man go to jail, never mind die.

Key word....Guilty.

[Tom]

5% is enough for me. After all, I AM the state. I have no problem executing real killers, but not innocent ones.

[The Judge]

Caryl Chessman this was in the 50's or very late 40's he was put to death and he never killed anyone. The case was all the rage back then in all the papers etc. He robbed and raped but never Killed anyone. But the death penalty was given for Kidnapping with bodily harm and move his victems from the parked cars.

It was the "Little Linbergh Law." It was either life without possiblity of parole or death, he got the gas chamber at San Quintin. The red lights (spot lights were used by police back then)

[delayjf]

Michael Kramer wrote a piece in 1994 entitled "frying them is not the answer" or something similar. 23 known executions of innocent men.

Perhaps in his opinion. If Kramer could prove that beyond a reasonable doubt. The anti-death penalty crowd would have seized upon that an we'd be hearing a lot more about it.

There was also a case in Virginia whereby 7 black men were sent to the electric chair for gang raping a white woman. There have been some executed for assault. To be honest with you, I think its justified in some cases - i.e I recall a girl who had either her arms or legs cut off and was left to die. She survived, an the attacker was charged with assault. This guy deserves to die.

[cj]

The odds an innocent man has not been executed are astronomical. I will do some research and see if there are any documented cases, but it doesn't matter. There is no doubt in my mind it has happened.

[delayjf]

CJ,

I agree with you, however, if there are any documented cases I'm guessing that they were pre- Furman. Death Penalty cases get a lot of scrutiny these days.

[bigmack]

I will do some research and see if there are any documented cases, .
Fairly good read here:

http://www.prodeathpenalty.com/DP.html

[kenwoodallpromos]

Would you want the government brainwashing 12 of your neighbors who then decide if you die? Maybe if you were arrested in Boulder?
How much coop favoritism or corrupt police and railroading Da's does it take to throw wide suspicion about the whole system?
How many friends of cops get busted? How many criminal cases are decided primarily on a jailhouse snitch that wants to kiss up to the cops?

[delayjf]

Would you want the government brainwashing 12 of your neighbors who then decide if you die? Maybe if you were arrested in Boulder?

Ken,

You make some good points and no doubt there have been innocent people sent to jail, but if the systems is really that broken - what can be done. I have no doubt that there are corrupt individuals within the system - but the list would have to be long and distinguished to get someone executed these days.

[Dick Schmidt]

A very long time ago, I wrote a college paper on the death penalty (didn't everyone?). Anyway, I came across an interesting pole taken among the wardens of prisons all over the country. Those who had the death penalty almost universally were against it for many of the same reasons given, plus what they observed it did to the people who had to carry out the sentences.

However, the wardens in the states that had no death penalty were heavily in favor of it. They had watched too many very old men waiting to die to want to see anyone serve life. They felt that serving 60+ years was cruel and unusual punishment, yet that is what many of those sentenced to life face.

Hard things to think about, and I don't have an answer.

Dick

[Suff]

This guy deserves to die.

Deserves got nuthin to do with it.

Rapists & pedophiles deserve to die.

Hell....the son of a bitch that broke into my house twice in the same summer deserves to die.

Capital Punishment.

Capital comes from the Latin word meaning "Head". To mean: Punished by the Head of State. The King.

I reject giving Politicians the power to KILL. Make no mistake thinking that most prosecuters are not politicians.

Other than that...I have no moral objection to retribution. Lots of people deserve to die.

[John]

" Other than that...I have no moral objection to retribution. Lots of people deserve to die." [/QUOTE]


That's from a guy who has been to hell and it made back.


:) :) :)

[kenwoodallpromos]

Ken,

You make some good points and no doubt there have been innocent people sent to jail, but if the systems is really that broken - what can be done. I have no doubt that there are corrupt individuals within the system - but the list would have to be long and distinguished to get someone executed these days.
Many DA's and many sheriffs have to get elected- takes sensible average people.
My opinion on the death penalty is either execute more so it is not "unusual" or a life sentence guaranteed never to get out, 6 X 6 cell, 3 meals as day, and all the books they can read. 1 decent appeal with a decent defense.

[WJ47]

I found this thread while searching for something else! :)

I live in Western New York and this week, a man who had served 22 years in prison for rape was found to be innocent via DNA evidence and released. For 20+ years, a rapist known as the "Bike Path Killer" has been terrorizing our city. He started out raping, then began murdering his victims. He was finally arrested several months ago and DNA proved that he was actually the one who raped the women that the other man went to jail for. The two men looked amazingly similiar in appearance. The rape victims positively identified him, but it obviously wasn't him. How many people look like other people? This could happen to anyone and they could be falsely accused. It's really scary. I believe that innocent people are jailed or even executed all the time in our country. I believe in the death penalty, but I don't think that anyone should be able to be executed without absolute DNA evidence.

Here is a link to the story. I think its really sad. His mother went to church every single morning for 22 years to pray for her son's release.

http://www.buffalonews.com/102/story/45768.html

According to this article in National Geographic, DNA has exonerated multiple men on death row:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/04/0408_050408_tv_dnadeath.html

I hate criminals. I've been robbed twice (Suff, when it happened the last time, I said to my husband, "I hope that SOB who robbed me DIES!") and it disgusts me when I see thieves and criminals on tv. I imagine that most people in jail deserve to be there. But I'm also horrified at the thought of innocent men spending their lives in jail for crimes they didn't commit.

I'm going to have to get that John Grisham book, I loved everything I read of his!

[Tom]

WJ....I followed that stroy on the local news. We must liv ein the same neck of the woods.

I think now that DNA is avaialble, it is the duty of the governmen to use it in all cases possible, as the burden of proof is on them. Not using all the tools out there is not adequate. And all case need to be reviewed, like this one points out.

BTW.....Finger Lakes opens in 6 days! Entries out in four!
I saw the horseys working out the other morning. :jump:

[WJ47]

Tom, I'm in Cheektowaga, a suburb of Buffalo. :) My nearest track is Fort Erie. Did you hear that they're going to require a passport to get into Canada soon? That's going to be a real pain as far as going up to Fort Erie. I haven't decided if I'm going to get one yet.

I can't believe Finger Lakes is opening already; the winter went by really quick! :) Can you bet Finger Lakes right from home? For some reason, Brisbet won't let me bet that track, I have to go right to the OTB to wager. Luckily, we have one right down the street.

[Show Me the Wire]

I have no moral objection to the death penalty, I object to the lax investigations and over zealous prosecutors looking to make a name for themselves.