This is a start in the right direction (tote odds)...

[PaceAdvantage]

But why can't they be almost instantaneous? Any schmo with an Ameritrade account gets nearly instantaneous data on every buy and sell on the various stock exchanges, but we still have to wait 10 seconds for final TOTE data? Really?

Late odds changes to be reduced to ten-second delay (http://thoroughbredtimes.com/todaysnews/newsview.asp?recno=67256&subsec=1)
Beginning January 1, racetracks will be able to report final odds within ten seconds of wagering completion. Thoroughbred Times (http://thoroughbredtimes.com/todaysnews/newsview.asp?recno=67256&subsec=1)

[BillW]

But why can't they be almost instantaneous? Any schmo with an Ameritrade account gets nearly instantaneous data on every buy and sell on the various stock exchanges, but we still have to wait 10 seconds for final TOTE data? Really?

[/size]

Mike,

Note that the story states that they are just cutting the update cycle to 10 secs. They are hoping this will smooth out odds shift. I think they will still have trouble as long as they use the hub concept (which Ameritrade in all probability doesn't).

BTW Do you know what Ameritrade's delay is? Almost instantaneous is relative.

[DrugSalvastore]

That's a good improvement.


I remember, just a few years ago, that you could cancel a ticket as late as about seven or eight seconds after the start of a race.

I guess it was like that to allow tellers a chance to cancel a ticket they made a mistake on....for a bettor they may have tried to rush a wager in for right before the start of the race.

Needless to say, people found out about it and took advantage of it.

I guess it's best use might have been in harness racing, where some horses break stride right as the betting closes. But, it also can be used as an edge in races like the 4.5 furlong sprints at Charles Town, where break and early positoning are very key.

A bettor couldn't really take advantage of it when it was busy and people were in line---but, if the teller isn't a total slowpoke, you did have enough time to watch the horse you bet break bad, and get the ticket cancelled.

I guess they called it a "cancel freeze" or something like that. I guess it's no longer been available to bettors at local OTB's for the last two plus years. But, I wouldn't be surprised if a few places in the country still have it.

[bigmack]

BTW Do you know what Ameritrade's delay is? Almost instantaneous is relative.
Ameritrade? Shazzam, go Interactive

[1st time lasix]

I wonder if this will expose those tracks that allow late "batch' money to come into their pools after the race has begun. Calder is the worst! Based on my observations.... and after listening to an tote executive at the DRF Expo in March of 2004....no one on earth can convince me that "past posting" doesn't occur in their win pool. Watch the significant odds drop on early speed types who get to the front in the first 20 seconds.......

[Anderon]

What they need to do is go back to what the New York tracks did years ago, close the wagering pools at 1-2 minutes before the race is run. This then would have all the pools and odds straight before they run the races with no crap happening while they are running.

[JustRalph]

What they need to do is go back to what the New York tracks did years ago, close the wagering pools at 1-2 minutes before the race is run. This then would have all the pools and odds straight before they run the races with no crap happening while they are running.

the same crap still happened. It just happened two minutes earlier

[betovernetcapper]

I can understand how tote companies might have a problem on Breeders Cup days or tracks with huge pools like Bel or SA, but I've seen past post odds shifts at places like GLD and SRP. How hard can it be to balance a $987 pool?

Does the same thing happen in Hong Kong-UK or AUS?

[PlanB]

"I can understand how tote companies might have a problem on Breeders Cup days or tracks with huge pools like Bel or SA, but I've seen past post odds shifts at places like GLD and SRP. How hard can it be to balance a $987 pool?

Does the same thing happen in Hong Kong-UK or AUS?"

Answer: Could HALIBURTON hold the exclusive contract? That would
explain the lowest scientific application.

[twindouble]

I don't understand what the big problem is, why don't the tracks just stop taking wagers prior loading in the gate including cancellations. It wouldn't matter when the money comes in from the hubs. The way I see it even if they got all the money in the tote system prior to start your still looking at late money odds drops, nothing changes with the exception of perceived cheating after the gate opens. Sounds to me like that's what they want to eliminate because there's nothing they can do about late money.

[ryesteve]

I don't understand what the big problem is, why don't the tracks just stop taking wagers prior loading in the gate.
Because you'd never convince them that they're not sacrificing handle by not keeping betting open til the last possible moment.

[twindouble]

Because you'd never convince them that they're not sacrificing handle by not keeping betting open til the last possible moment.

Well, the last moment can be as they start to load, I'm cut off two minutes to post on Youbet, don't bother me or them.

[PaceAdvantage]

BTW Do you know what Ameritrade's delay is? Almost instantaneous is relative.

Nope, not a clue. My guess would be less than one second on a good day. But maybe that's more along the lines of Interactive Brokers....who knows....

[JackS]

I remember several years ago, someone or some track was experimenting with true posted odds based on the time you bought your ticket.
Obviously this would place a huge burdon on the morning liner since serious errors could result in unacceptible losses for the track.
Since tickets were time based, it could work for you or against you based on the time you purchased your ticket and the final odds :cool: .
Does anyone recall if this ever actually happened?

[Paging]

Well, the last moment can be as they start to load, I'm cut off two minutes to post on Youbet, don't bother me or them.

Don't know why you're cut off two minutes to post on Youbet when everyone I know can get a bet in right up until the gate opens.

Perhaps you're watching the video feeds on Youbet and you're getting shut out two mins prior to Youbet video of the race? Remember Youbet has to take the uplinked satellite and transfer it to a streaming video.

[JustRalph]

Don't know why you're cut off two minutes to post on Youbet when everyone I know can get a bet in right up until the gate opens.

Perhaps you're watching the video feeds on Youbet and you're getting shut out two mins prior to Youbet video of the race? Remember Youbet has to take the uplinked satellite and transfer it to a streaming video.

I was wondering the same thing. I haven't used Youbet for a while, but I was able to put them in right up until the gate opened ( plus video feed lag time) and if you are not compensating for the video feed, you need to.

[twindouble]

I was wondering the same thing. I haven't used Youbet for a while, but I was able to put them in right up until the gate opened ( plus video feed lag time) and if you are not compensating for the video feed, you need to.

Yes, I always have the video up, all I can say is when Youbet's clock went to zero sometime ago I got shut out and the vidio showed 2 or 3 min to post at the track, so I do pay attention to Youbet's clock to get my bets in. Could be that lag time. Like I said, it's no big deal to me anyway as long as I get the bet in.

[Dave Schwartz]

My experience is that YouBet is usually 9-30 seconds behind satellite (dishnet). However, every once in awhile Youbet is actually in front of my satellite feed.


Dave

[twindouble]

My experience is that YouBet is usually 9-30 seconds behind satellite (dishnet). However, every once in awhile Youbet is actually in front of my satellite feed.


Dave

Dave, speaking of video last night I was checking out Retama Park and Lone Star, at both of those tracks my video sucked, stalled and hung about every two seconds, had no problem prior. Was it their feed, youbet or my computer? Last week I upgraded my RAM.

Thanks,

T.D.

[ezrabrooks]

I remember several years ago, someone or some track was experimenting with true posted odds based on the time you bought your ticket.
Obviously this would place a huge burdon on the morning liner since serious errors could result in unacceptible losses for the track.
Since tickets were time based, it could work for you or against you based on the time you purchased your ticket and the final odds :cool: .
Does anyone recall if this ever actually happened?

Paramutual system can't handle it...unless you had seperate pools every click. I seem to remember a casino is LV that posted odds on horses...but, the players killed them.

[Dave Schwartz]

Dave, speaking of video last night I was checking out Retama Park and Lone Star, at both of those tracks my video sucked, stalled and hung about every two seconds, had no problem prior. Was it their feed, YouBet or my computer?

First, I bet Ralphie Boy could give you a better answer.

What you are describing is caused by a shortage in supply of resources somewhere relative to the demand (assuming something isn't actaully broken).

It could be from the provider (YouBet) or from an inability of the track to get the signal out, or, if you are a cable subscriber, heavy demand in your area. In other words, something is chooking the system and I don't know that you can find out what is causing it.


Dave

PS: How'd I do, Ralph? Could you expand on this?

[twindouble]

First, I bet Ralphie Boy could give you a better answer.

What you are describing is caused by a shortage in supply of resources somewhere relative to the demand (assuming something isn't actaully broken).

It could be from the provider (YouBet) or from an inability of the track to get the signal out, or, if you are a cable subscriber, heavy demand in your area. In other words, something is chooking the system and I don't know that you can find out what is causing it.


Dave

PS: How'd I do, Ralph? Could you expand on this?

Thanks, I'll know better this afternoon, when I bring up Belmont.

[trigger]

I wonder if this will expose those tracks that allow late "batch' money to come into their pools after the race has begun. Calder is the worst! Based on my observations.... and after listening to an tote executive at the DRF Expo in March of 2004....no one on earth can convince me that "past posting" doesn't occur in their win pool. Watch the significant odds drop on early speed types who get to the front in the first 20 seconds.......

From what I read, this new 10 second delay is only for win bets. So..the exotic pools and payoffs will still be changing late into the race. I've watched TVG while,at the same time, having the exotic pools for exactas, tris, etc up on my Youbet feed and the exotic pools often get updated for huge amounts (and the payoffs too ,I assume)while the horses via TVG (real time) are coming down the stretch. What's with that!? CRW activity???
In any event,It looks like this new ten second thing is cosmetic only.

[Nosebob]

Regarding fixed odds wagers.

There was a race book in Las Vegas in the early 1990's which fit this description. It was called "Sport of Kings", and located on Convention Center Drive. I believe they only lasted a year or so. I don't recall how the line was established, but you got whatever the odds were at the time you bet.

Obviously not a good business model!

[skate]

ezrabrooks;

not sure if you refer to "king of sports" casino or not, but they were able to stay open for bout 2 or 3 years. they had no limit, closed the sports book first.
i think thats the name, near the convention center.



Paramutual system can't handle it...unless you had seperate pools every click. I seem to remember a casino is LV that posted odds on horses...but, the players killed them.

[skate]

ya thats the one

Nosebob;


i think what really got them (they did start off in a hole), they didn't have a limit on ball games.
that closed first, nice place though..

[skate]

hey TD;

did you find error?

you-bet , Amer-tab or whomever, can give you a site ( or anyone can) which gives you the speed at which you are loading.

cable speed fluctuates as Ralph was saying, this will cause that type problem.

[twindouble]

hey TD;

did you find error?

you-bet , Amer-tab or whomever, can give you a site ( or anyone can) which gives you the speed at which you are loading.

cable speed fluctuates as Ralph was saying, this will cause that type problem.

Thanks for asking skate, had no problem there after. Had to be the feed or my server. Although it's still not a clear as I would like it to be, even after upgrading my RAM.

[rrbauer]

Maybe I misunderstand this new hi-tech innovation for updating odds.

It will be available on a strictly voluntary basis (by track/or racing association) "sometime" after January 1.

The track or racing assoc can "force" an update cycle to occur ten seconds after the pool has "closed" (read: race has started) which will cause the win odds to update and display, and that update/display will include about 95% (estimated) of the money in the pool.

Sooooooo, if an update cycle is "forced" ten seconds after the race has started, then how long will it take for the update cycle to process? And after the update cycle has processed, how long will it take to display the results of that cycle (ie. the 95% of the total win odds).

And, this acclerated processing will only occur when it is "forced" while the rest of the time we will be looking at odds displays that are 30-45 seconds in arrears, just as they are today.

And, this is progress?

[ezrabrooks]

Nose and Skate..

Yep, that was the place I was thinking about. I never made it, but remember reading that it closed down. I guess having no limit would make it tough to keep your book balanced..

Ez

[rrbauer]

Sport of Kings was a nice place for players and one of the early providers of a non-smoking section for players in L.V. They did offer fixed odds initially but some sharp sheet players ate their lunch and subsequently SOK went parimutuel. Without a big subsidy from casino operations, hotel operations and food and beverage, they couldn't compete with the fat cats.

On the flip side, based on my knowledge of one of the principals, they tended to be fairly arrogant and that helped to perpetuate their ignorance about how to run a "book" beyond their available capital.

[skate]

ezra;

true.
let me add, they did have a problem, i recall now, the money to open was coming from an English guy who had some questionable dealings with others.

so the fact that they were held off from opening, left them in Short Pants.
and along came "heavy Hitters".

sports book went Down first.
i recall, guys in "T" shirts betting 10 grand, seconds before game time.