View Full Version : Let's pretend....
kid4rilla
10-16-2006, 12:01 PM
....that a report came out today that indicated all tracks would be implementing a 5% track take on WPS betting.
How would that news grab ya?
The first reaction is to think that pros bottom lines would shoot through the roof. How would wagering be changed? Are there any cons as far as the player is concerned?
How many tracks would become insolvent quickly?
What impact do you think this would have on handicapping for the recreational fan? Could a gimmick like this have enough weight to the causal player to forgo his normal trip to the roulette table and hit the OTB?
Is this a possible scenario to provide a win/win for the player and the tracks? Could we possibly see it happen?
aaron
10-16-2006, 12:20 PM
If the take was only 5% on wps, I believe the tracks would get back a lot of off-shore rebate players and in time the handle on wps betting would increase significantly.There would be no need for tracks to offer anything else to players if this was to occur.
kenwoodallpromos
10-16-2006, 02:31 PM
All tracks would close down immediately because often the state and local takeout alone is often at least 5%.
Lowering the exotics takeout to match the WPS takeout and dropping the breakage may increase overall handle!
What's the purpose of this exercise?
PriceAnProbability
10-17-2006, 02:50 AM
....that a report came out today that indicated all tracks would be implementing a 5% track take on WPS betting.
How would that news grab ya?
The first reaction is to think that pros bottom lines would shoot through the roof. How would wagering be changed? Are there any cons as far as the player is concerned?
How many tracks would become insolvent quickly?
What impact do you think this would have on handicapping for the recreational fan? Could a gimmick like this have enough weight to the causal player to forgo his normal trip to the roulette table and hit the OTB?
Is this a possible scenario to provide a win/win for the player and the tracks? Could we possibly see it happen?
You would have two forces at work: more players would become profitable and remove money from the pools (like pros who pay bills with winnings), but there would also be more losing players adding money to the system.
I think the ideal takeout is 7-10 percent, probably closer to 7, so as to give some people a chance of winning without the winners being too much of a drain on the system.
twindouble
10-17-2006, 09:38 AM
How about someone figuring out what the $2.00 wager is worth factoring in inflation for the last 50 years. Compare hitting a $30.00 horse then, or what you could buy with $20,000.00 score. Then throw in the $1.00, 50cent and 10 cent wagers. :D
T.D.
kid4rilla
10-17-2006, 12:10 PM
What's the purpose of this exercise?
Exercise is good for you.
kid4rilla
10-17-2006, 12:13 PM
All tracks would close down immediately because often the state and local takeout alone is often at least 5%.
Didn't know that. I guess that eliminates any chance of the WPS takeout ever decreasing much more.
twindouble
10-17-2006, 01:18 PM
How about someone figuring out what the $2.00 wager is worth factoring in inflation for the last 50 years. Compare hitting a $30.00 horse then, or what you could buy with $20,000.00 score. Then throw in the $1.00, 50cent and 10 cent wagers. :D
T.D.
Think about it, you have to think in terms of real dollar value, not only when it comes to track operations but most importantly what your getting for your wagering dollar. The reality that we are all dealing with is the constant deprecation we are confronted with. Those that aren't adjusting their wagering strategies and goals playing the horses will only spin their wheels or out right lose and drop out, like many tracks have over the years.
I've touched on this subject before and there's only one way to over come getting beat up like this. That's getting a greater return for your wagering dollar via the gimmicks, picks and be willing to gamble more money on your key horses with value. WIN. You have to be thinking take down a bigger percentage of the pools with every wager. Obviously that can't happen every race you bet but that's goal to have in mind.
I understand there's many out there that grind out a profit but it has to be substantial enough to over come the above. A $20,000 to $30,000 profit for the year before taxes and expences when I first started was fantastic being a working man. Today, not really much to brag about, except for the fact you didn't lose.
The only thing that has helped players is online wagering, cutting down on out of pocket expences, the negitive is being here, not at the track being able to get to know each other on a personal level along with live racing.
Good luck,
T.D.
rokitman
10-17-2006, 02:17 PM
Exercise is good for you.
:D
kenwoodallpromos
10-17-2006, 04:52 PM
Didn't know that. I guess that eliminates any chance of the WPS takeout ever decreasing much more.
_____
NY current- "(v) A race meeting conducted by a corporation or association pursuant
to a contract with the fund shall be governed by the requirements of
section two hundred twenty-eight of this chapter except that the
retained percentage applicable to super exotic bets shall be twenty-five
per centum and *****the state pari-mutuel tax rate shall be three per centum
of all wagers, notwithstanding inconsistent provisions of this section.
________________
Iowa is 5%, Ca is 1.8%, most are 2-5%, not including taxes from local Govts.
kenwoodallpromos
10-17-2006, 05:15 PM
"The Racing, Pari-mutuel Wagering and Breeding Law imposes a tax on pari-mutuel wagering at horse racetracks and at off-track betting (OTB) parlors throughout the State for the privilege of conducting pari-mutuel wagering on horse races. The Department of Taxation and Finance administers this tax. Each racing association or OTB corporation pays to the State a portion of the commission withheld from wagering pools. Tax rates vary by type of race and wager. State horse racing revenues also include the racing admission tax, breakage, nonprofit racing association franchise fees, and revenue from uncashed tickets.
Legislation enacted in 1995 reduced tax rates on certain wagering pools and extended simulcasting provisions. The tax rate reductions vary by track and type of racing. In addition, legislation enacted in 2000 temporarily eliminated the pari-mutuel tax on all races taking place at New York Racing Association (NYRA) race tracks on the day before, during and after the NYRA’s 2001 Breeders’ Cup Event"
______________
Local taxes vary from state to state, some just taking 10 cents or so from admission tickets.
Dave Schwartz
10-17-2006, 05:40 PM
All tracks would close down immediately because often the state and local takeout alone is often at least 5%.
I do not believe this to be an accurate statement. I am under the impression that the majority of "taxes" are under 2%.
Regards,
Dave Schwartz
skate
10-17-2006, 05:41 PM
na na na, hey look if the track takes "its" 5% then the state takes "its" 5% or visa/versa, does not mater if the states take 5%.
just because the State takes 5, does Not mean that the track can't take its 5%..
one 5 does not contain illimitableness
chickenhead
10-17-2006, 05:56 PM
_____
tax rate shall be three per centum
is that latin? per centum? why are they dropping latin on us? or is that just proper english and I'm a neanderthal?
twindouble
10-17-2006, 06:17 PM
Well, I guess post #9 isn't going anywhere. Maybe this will be more interesting.
If someone were to bet $100 to win on the 2 horse in every race through out any tracks meet for the year, how would he fair compared to betting on the 8 horse. :jump:
I know the answer and I'm not telling. :p
T.D.
Anyone who bets by number is going to have a very rough go.
Mercifully there are many fewer 8s than there are 2s so the guy betting the 8s shows a smaller loss.
twindouble
10-17-2006, 08:57 PM
Anyone who bets by number is going to have a very rough go.
Mercifully there are many fewer 8s than there are 2s so the guy betting the 8s shows a smaller loss.
Thanks sjk but I was really expecting someone to throw up a spread sheet showing the average payoffs for each number at all tracks. What a disappointment.
The guys betting the 8's at Golden Gate can probably count the amount of wagers placed on one hand :lol: .
Z
twindouble
10-17-2006, 09:26 PM
The guys betting the 8's at Golden Gate can probably count the amount of wagers placed on one hand :lol: .
Z
I didn't pick the 2 and 8 for no good reason. Why do you think the 8 is a loser at GG?
Because there are none :lol: :lol: :lol:
Z
twindouble
10-17-2006, 10:22 PM
Because there are none :lol: :lol: :lol:
Z:lol: Ok, I got a good laugh, it's bed time.
speculus
10-17-2006, 11:32 PM
I have already taken it up as a signature, in the hope that someone in authority stumbles onto it while visiting this board!:jump:
alysheba88
10-18-2006, 07:54 AM
I'd settle for 10% on all wagers.
Plus modifying the "signer" rules.
You would see racing flourish. Which is why it will never ever happen
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