Proposal: PA Breeder's Cup Telethon [Archive] - Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com

Dave Schwartz

10-04-2006, 10:34 AM

I would like to propose the first annual Pace Advantage Breeder's Cup Telethon.

PA runs this board basically on air. A few advertisers pay a buck or two but the rank and file members pay nothing. And, remember that for years PA did not even have a little advertiser money.

Here is what I propose (but I admit I am still working on the details):

Each October, as a group, we (the PA members) pledge an amount of money towards PA's Breeder's Cup wagering fund. The purpose of this fund is to give him a hefty bankroll to play on BC day.

It is up to each individual what they send. There are several issues to address:

1. Do we pledge publicly?
I am inclined to think that we should post publicly.

2. Who receives the checks or PayPals...
... and forwards the total amount to PA?

This is only an issue because PA would prefer to remain somewhat anonymous, although he certainly "comes out of the closet" at 'toga parties.

(I would prefer that it not be me but I would be willing to do so if nobody else does.)

What are your thoughts/opinions?

Regards,
Dave Schwartz

rrbauer

10-04-2006, 11:01 AM

Red Knave

10-04-2006, 11:12 AM

I would prefer to see something like a contest that would benefit both PA and the people who play in the contest that would be funded from entry fees. PA could rake something off the top for administering the contest. I like it. Something like we did in the spring at 'PA Downs'. Pay a fee to enter and get a bankroll to bet from ...

Not to seem harsh, but if you feel so strongly that PA deserves some contributions, why not give him a percentage of the business that gets generated for HSI from the folks who hangout here?Um, Dave already is a paying advertiser.

Dave Schwartz

10-04-2006, 11:12 AM

Richard,

I would say that I have done my part here and will continue to do so.

There are so many active members here. Think of the impact that just a $20 bill from each one would have.

This was totally my idea and PA had nothing to do with it (beyond giving me permission to try this).

Just think about it, please.

Regards,
Dave Schwartz

Zaf

10-04-2006, 11:17 AM

Contest seems like a good idea, I'll go along with what the majority of members would prefer.

Z

pic6vic

10-04-2006, 11:51 AM

DAVE

I will go along with the majority. My preference is a contest

Suff

10-04-2006, 12:25 PM

DAVE

. My preference is a contest

Contest? yes... a 50/50. Half to PA -half to the winner (s). People throw in what they want... No complications. A Simple WP.
Put me down for $200.00

JustRalph

10-04-2006, 12:35 PM

I am in too..........

Murph

10-04-2006, 01:35 PM

What are your thoughts/opinions?

Regards,
Dave Schwartz What purpose would a list of donors with the amounts they choose to donate serve? Do you not think that the list would eventually be used to measure the value of a posters opinion according to the amount they chose to (or not to) donate? This is often how political parties will gauge the level of their members support and it also helps quiet detractors who indeed support the party in general but not a particular platform plank or party member.

What is the purpose of sending the monies solicited to a third party? If half of the registered members were to donate $20 each you would have a "slush" fund of more than $30,000. Delloit and Touche would be needed to audit such a "donation" scheme before I would be satisfied that it was all on the level.

It sounds to me that YOU feel that PA members should make payment to a third party for the privledge of posting into the forums. The entire idea makes me uncomfortable as an advertiser and previous contest sponsor. Maybe I don't entirely understand your motivations for wanting to do something like this?

Murph

PS - I love and support contests with reasonable entry and payout levels. That sounds like fun! No third party payments needed either.

Suff

10-04-2006, 01:44 PM

I sense another retraction coming.

Now put me down for $205.00:lol:

PaceAdvantage

10-04-2006, 02:33 PM

depalma13

10-04-2006, 02:38 PM

David,
I would prefer to see something like a contest that would benefit both PA and the people who play in the contest that would be funded from entry fees. PA could rake something off the top for administering the contest.

Not to seem harsh, but if you feel so strongly that PA deserves some contributions, why not give him a percentage of the business that gets generated for HSI from the folks who hangout here?

If you want to keep the website up, the last thing you want to do is hold a public contest that uses real money. PA will have to start asking for donations to help with his bail.

Dave Schwartz

10-04-2006, 02:59 PM

LOL - No retraction.

I'll just send my money.

(And, Murph, you are right. Public was a bad idea.)

Dave

Dave Schwartz

10-04-2006, 03:23 PM

Sorry - I guess I should have thought this through better.

Hope nobody was offended - especially PA.

(Sure seems I am apologizing a lot lately.)

LOL - See why I don't bother to market?

Dave

sjk

10-04-2006, 03:49 PM

I wouldn't mind at all sending a contribution for the upkeep of the board but would need to know where to send it and how to endorse the check.

I have been very lax in clicking on the ads on the top of the page and probably should do something to make it right.

bigmack

10-04-2006, 03:52 PM

Delloit and Touche would be needed to audit such a "donation" scheme before I would be satisfied that it was all on the level.

It sounds to me that YOU feel that PA members should make payment to a third party for the privledge of posting into the forums. The entire idea makes me uncomfortable as an advertiser and previous contest sponsor. Maybe I don't entirely understand your motivations for wanting to do something like this?

It's actually Deloitte & Touche though in some circles it's Toilette & Douche.

Yo Murpha, "the entire idea makes me uncomfortable"? We're gonna have to put a trace on your lineage. It doesn't seem Irishy 2 me, more "panties in an bind Turkish"
http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/ad/nono.gif

Murph

10-04-2006, 04:54 PM

It's actually Deloitte & Touche though in some circles it's Toilette & Douche.

Yo Murpha, "the entire idea makes me uncomfortable"? We're gonna have to put a trace on your lineage. It doesn't seem Irishy 2 me, more "panties in an bind Turkish"
http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/ad/nono.gifNO pinched delicates on my end at all Bigmack.

Just a genuine concern for the path our community may consider to travel. After all, my partner and I have generously supported the PA forums for many months now. If I can find a way to generate any monetary support from internet surfers, beyond what we already know, I will certainly share the methods with PA.

Please do not mistake my "con" side of recent discussions for not supporting PA. I do support this community and I will continue to do my part to help keep us strong and growing.

Murph

Red Knave

10-04-2006, 04:57 PM

Makes me sound like some sort of broke degenerate Yeah, that's only half right! ;) :D :kiss:

10-04-2006, 05:14 PM

Just set up a PayPal account and have a donate button. Those who want to can easily, and those that don't want to aren't bothered.

Tom

10-04-2006, 06:13 PM

PA, we don't think you are broke (:rolleyes:)!

I am always open to the idea - this is a great place and whatever we can do for YOU makes sense to me. I know you put in a lot of work to keep this place open ( and some of us require "extra hours" at times):eek:

10-04-2006, 06:51 PM

Indulto

10-04-2006, 07:36 PM

Please advise as to how one would go about making a donation without compromising one's anonymity? Used to be, you could send a money order without return info.

This board is a great source of entertainment and substitute for therapy. If PA is going out of pocket to provide us all with this unparalleled ability to interact, I'm all for individual contributions (though I wouldn't want to offend any Lassez-Faire capitalist types in the process ;)).

It would be a shame if the board has become another internet business venture gone awry. I've never been able to understand how a discussion board that doesn't exist primarily for customer service manages to pay for itself. It would appear that one must always be selling/providing something people are willing to pay for continuously.

Maybe that analogy I once suggested to an on-line dating service has some merit.:D

So, hey, PA,
Match me up with a way to pay,
To continue to bray, night or day,
And debunk the trunks of those who say,
“You’re my prey unless you pray my way.”
‘Cause if nobody hears what you have to say,
There’s no opinion to defend, or wit to display,
Just more sorrow tomorrow than play today.

Ok, guys, put your money where you leave your mouth.:lol:

P.S., IMO the PM Service, at least, should be a revenue source, especially from those benefiting from its ability to be used anonymously. Again, how to pay for that?

twindouble

10-04-2006, 10:24 PM

Dave has good intentions, but the more I think about this, the more I don't like it. Makes me sound like some sort of broke degenerate who is looking to use this website to fund a bankroll.

I'll continue to look to paid advertisers for monetary support for this website, not individual user "donations"

And I have stated in the past that any contest that requires users to PAY to enter is illegal. The only way it would be legal is if ALL MONEY received for entry fees is RETURNED to the players (and even in that case, I'm not so sure, especially here in NY). If I keep even one penny, it would violate a multitude of lottery and sweepstakes laws......

So, while I appreciate what Dave is doing, I will have to put the kibosh on any sort of telethon or pay-to-enter contest.

Sorry Dave, I should have thought about this more before I gave the green light.....

Yes, my first thought was the legal aspect of such a move.

Myself, I would break the fourms down into catigories and apply graduated fees to them, in other words if you want to talk to cj or Tom or you that would be preium. Just kidding but you get the idea. A package will get you all the forums. Then you can deside what you want to give back in any form you want.

Good Luck and I'll be willing.

T.D.

Indulto

10-04-2006, 10:42 PM

Myself, I would break the fourms down into catigories and apply graduated fees to them, in other words if you want to talk to cj or Tom or you that would be preium. Just kidding but you get the idea. A package will get you all the forums. Then you can deside what you want to give back in any form you want.TD,
Hasn't a precedent already been established, or don't people already have pay at Siro's to talk to tlg.:D

I think you've got the seed of a good idea though. Can you imagine how much less BS there'd be in OT if we were charged by the word? :lol:

twindouble

10-04-2006, 10:50 PM

TD,
Hasn't a precedent already been established, or don't people already have pay at Siro's to talk to tlg.:D

I think you've got the seed of a good idea though. Can you imagine how much less BS there'd be in OT if we were charged by the word? :lol:

:lol: Siro's is free, don't you think it should be. :D :D

twindouble

10-04-2006, 11:07 PM

Indulto; All kidding aside, tlg and I bump heads now and then but he's a decent handicapper and I don't care what he thinks of my handicapping, my wife's opinion is more important to me when it comes to that because I have to live with her. :D

njcurveball

10-05-2006, 02:41 PM

Well this topic certainly is interesting.

And Dave is quite generous in starting it and quite brave as well.

My suggestion would be to set up a private area for the Breeders Cup where people like Dave and other advertisers would provide Breeders Cup info, sheets, reports, juggling videos, whatever. The content is at their discretion.

PA Members can pay to log-in to that place and see all the Breeders Cup info. That seems to me to be a win/win situation. Dave, et al, get free advertising and payees get "try before you buy" info on the biggest day of the year.

If all of the info is HTML or PDF, I dont see how Equibase, HDW, et al would have a problem with it.

Just my 2 cents. I would never ask people to pay for posting, since that simply means they will go somewhere else. The reason most of us are here, is simply that, most of us are here.

There are plenty of other places to post on the Web and I am sure most of us have a few other favorites.

Good idea Dave, I like your bravado! You should be starting Game 3 for the Mets!!! :D

best to you,
Jim

twindouble

10-05-2006, 03:44 PM

Just my 2 cents. I would never ask people to pay for posting, since that simply means they will go somewhere else. The reason most of us are here, is simply that, most of us are here. quote; njcurveball

Well you can call it whatever you want but a donation is like your paying to be here anyway. I see nothing wrong with subscribing to this site, I'm not talking DRF rates, he can even offer a trial Month or more. Not only that, he has a good "product" otherwise we all would have been long gone. That can only happen by paying attention to what goes on here. Spend two or three hrs at a club kicking horse racing around with your friends, see what that costs.

Where does anyone get the idea that everything should be free on the Internet when others are providing a service, putting time and money into it.

Anyway, anyone looking to learn something about the game this is a good place to latch onto and it's worth something.

T.D.

PlanB

10-05-2006, 03:55 PM

Forget contests to raise money. I'll post a vid of me dancing to the BeeGees
"You Should Be Dancing" --- $20 bucks in my jeans, $35 in my Calvins.
(Multiple Views, 10% Off)

njcurveball

10-05-2006, 05:07 PM

Where does anyone get the idea that everything should be free on the Internet when others are providing a service, putting time and money into it.

T.D.

I guess it is how you view free. I pay almost $60 a month to Comcast for my "free" Internet.

As for pay sites, I avoid them unless they have an exclusive product and it is worth the money. I do subscribe to MLB for baseball.

I would be curious how much you would pay to post here.

the_fat_man

10-05-2006, 05:25 PM

I would be curious how much you would pay to post here.

Pay to post on a forum; what a novel notion.

betovernetcapper

10-05-2006, 06:09 PM

At the top of the screen there are a few Google links and if we each click on a link ,on each visit, PA will prosper.

One Visit=One click :)

Tom

10-05-2006, 06:28 PM

Forget contests to raise money. I'll post a vid of me dancing to the BeeGees
"You Should Be Dancing" --- $20 bucks in my jeans, $35 in my Calvins.
(Multiple Views, 10% Off)

10% off what ...the price or your Calvins! :eek:

twindouble

10-05-2006, 06:33 PM

I guess it is how you view free. I pay almost $60 a month to Comcast for my "free" Internet.

As for pay sites, I avoid them unless they have an exclusive product and it is worth the money. I do subscribe to MLB for baseball.

I would be curious how much you would pay to post here.

I assumed we were talking about just supplementing the site, not make the guy rich. If I remember right the last I looked there was over 3,000 subscribers, just a buck would be helpful I'm sure but whatever the traffic will bare. That's his department.

T.D.

PlanB

10-05-2006, 06:46 PM

LOL, TOM. That reminds me of a Michael Jackson joke when his limo was
passing a shopping mall and he shouted to his driver, "Pull Over Now" ---
there was a large banner that said, "Today Only, Boys Shorts, 50% Off."
(Tom, I hope you're in the BC contest)

Indulto

10-05-2006, 07:24 PM

... Just my 2 cents. I would never ask people to pay for posting, since that simply means they will go somewhere else. The reason most of us are here, is simply that, most of us are here.

There are plenty of other places to post on the Web and I am sure most of us have a few other favorites.
... Well you can call it whatever you want but a donation is like your paying to be here anyway. I see nothing wrong with subscribing to this site, I'm not talking DRF rates, he can even offer a trial Month or more. Not only that, he has a good "product" otherwise we all would have been long gone. That can only happen by paying attention to what goes on here. Spend two or three hrs at a club kicking horse racing around with your friends, see what that costs.

Where does anyone get the idea that everything should be free on the Internet when others are providing a service, putting time and money into it.

Anyway, anyone looking to learn something about the game this is a good place to latch onto and it's worth something.

njcb,
There ARE other forums for horseplayers, but not with this level of visibility, participation, AND freedom of expression over a range of topics and issues within each.

There really is a free lunch at paceadvantage.

But unless PA is a philanthropist, somebody has to pay for it, so why shouldn't it be those who benefit from it including non-advertisers?

What makes people register here? THEY WANT TO POST, i.e., ask a question, express an opinion, voice disagreement or displeasure, tell a joke, whatever. It ALL takes up storage and resources acquired and maintained by PA.

TD,
Right on!

How many here subscribe to a newspaper? Sunday delivery averages about $1/wk. IMO it should be worth at least 50 bucks a year to support this forum, and more for the posters who use up excessive storage. This post may be hot air on-screen, but it’s accumulated giggle-bytes on-disk. ;) (especially with smiley faces.)

We're used to free data, free admission, free-food and drinks; and that's OK because we pay for it through takeout. Just like phone calls, though, we should pay for PM's. There should also be a charge for the convenience of the IGNORE facility (unless the ignoree can find out who considers him an ignoramus :D). I'm not advocating charity. This on-line community has all the trappings of a club, so why not the dues?

chickenhead

10-05-2006, 07:35 PM

Indulto,
Why mess with a good thing? I'm afraid of what your suggestions would do to the dynamics around here.

Craig nailed it earlier -- PA should add a Paypal button. No muss, no fuss.

Indulto

10-05-2006, 08:15 PM

Indulto,
Why mess with a good thing? I'm afraid of what your suggestions would do to the dynamics around here.

Craig nailed it earlier -- PA should add a Paypal button. No muss, no fuss.c-hd,
I'm not for fixing anything that isn't broken. I was simply trying to help create awareness of -- and appreciation for -- what PA provides (in the event there is any danger of losing it). I'll bet a lot of NYRA website users didn't realize how good they had it until features they had taken for granted were no longer available.

BTW I've never noticed anything other than kid's toys being given away at Burger King. ;) What happened to the wolf? Did he eat at BK? :D

Bruddah

10-05-2006, 08:41 PM

to know how much money it takes PA to keep this site going. It is a heck of an expensive hobby for him. However, for the rest of us, it's a FREE LUNCH.

PA, you can count me in for a few $$$. Just post the address, so I can send what I owe.

chickenhead

10-05-2006, 09:12 PM

c-hd,
I'm not for fixing anything that isn't broken. I was simply trying to help create awareness of -- and appreciation for -- what PA provides (in the event there is any danger of losing it). I'll bet a lot of NYRA website users didn't realize how good they had it until features they had taken for granted were no longer available.

BTW I've never noticed anything other than kid's toys being given away at Burger King. ;) What happened to the wolf? Did he eat at BK? :D

I agree this is a most wonderful service PA provides for us, and I think his cup would runneth over if he allowed for donations. I don't like the idea of paying for posts or paying for membership, not because I think it would hamper those who are already here, but I think it would hurt the board long term in that it would reduce the number of interested new members.

We want newbies to be able to ask questions without charging them $50 for the priviledge.

Bruddah

10-05-2006, 09:41 PM

I am not advocating anything other than me sending PA a few bucks, to help offset the expense. If others feel the same way, they can get off the wallet and do the same. Each to his own, on how much. It isn't a requirement for posting.

Plain and simple, chatboards are informative and fun, for those of us participating. Chat boards are expensive and time consuming for those good enough to sponsor them. About the only thing I have seen PA get, in return for doing it for seven (7) years, are some who want to cause trouble, wise cracks, and occasional insults.

Everyone get off their dead wallets and send what is comfortable. No one need know how much, little, or even if you did.

njcurveball

10-06-2006, 12:43 AM

Amen Bruddah!

kingfin66

10-06-2006, 01:51 AM

Let's get real. I told myself that I wasn't going to read this thread, but I ended up skimming it anyway :bang:

A PA Telethon? Donations? Let's get real. Those of you who have websites know that there is some expense to running a website. Bandwith is definitely not free, but it isn't super expensive either. Domain names are relatively cheap.

PA has ads to help support the site. These most likely result in more than a trickle, but less than a flood, of revenue. He also has a few advertisers such as Dave S. and others. He has a little bit of money coming in, but he definitely isn't getting rich.

If PA really wanted to make bucks from this site, there are some things he could do immediately to change his fortune. He, I'm sure, is already aware of these, but I will list them anyway:

- Add banners for offshore sportsbooks such as Pinnacle (this would do away with Google ads, but would be far more lucrative assuming a few of you signed up). Poker ads would also be a natural.

- Ad adds for Amazon - horse racing books. Amazon ads result in a very small trickle of money paid only quarterly.

- Sell horseracing systems via hoplinks from Clickbank. These are some of the same types of things you see in the Google ads.

- Allow some of the website's members to sell their selections through the site and take a cut of the proceeds.

- And, of course, let's not forget posting affiliate links for online racing forms such as Bris.

There are many, many ways to make money from a website. But forget all of this, and remember that PA has not asked anybody for anything - EVER. He himself said that he was not comfortable with the telethon thingy. It is nice that people want to pony up $$ to "help" him. In fact, it is unprecedented as far as I can tell. But let it go. If you really want to send him money just do it, but lets stop with all this open solicitation.

Bruddah

10-06-2006, 12:00 PM

I mean the King has spoken. All hail the King! No other view point matters, now. :D :jump: :D

kingfin66

10-06-2006, 12:09 PM

You can put your sarcasm aside. I actually pointed out a few things relative to the discussion. Neither your "clever" retort nor your making fun of my Internet user handle does anything to further the conversation. Anybody who reads my post can easily see that, contrary to your inane response, I am not suggesting that anybody is not entitled to your opinion.

And yes, I know that that you will say, "King, I was only joking" as you cite the :D :jump: :D in your post. I see right through that and suggest that you stifle the sarcasm.

Bruddah

10-06-2006, 12:25 PM

Just climb down off your thrown and get "REAL",your highness. I really think the problem is your jealous of PA getting a loyal response/support from his members.

Come down to planet earth. You have been running around with Zeus and Aphrodite much too long. :p :D :p

kingfin66

10-06-2006, 12:49 PM

toetoe

10-06-2006, 09:07 PM

In my own impecunious way, I plan on giving any winnings in PA contests to PA. Can somebody give an odds line, a which-century over/under? :D

keilan

10-06-2006, 10:22 PM

In my own impecunious way, I plan on giving any winnings in PA contests to PA. Can somebody give an odds line, a which-century over/under? :D

toetoe -- you're presently sitting at 100-1 per plan b :jump:

Tom

10-06-2006, 11:45 PM

I had a nice, witty, sarcastic reply all ready for your Bruddah. It had name calling and some other choice words. I decided not to post it. Your two posts say more about you than anything I could right.

Yes, the king has spoken. But so too, unfortunately, has Bruddah :lol: :lol:

If you mean his posts say he is a good guy, then yes, your are right. Bruddah is one of the good guys. Anyone who know him knows that. then he goes and comes out in favor of PA, another good guy! Boy, where will this end? :rolleyes:

bigmack

10-06-2006, 11:49 PM

! Boy, where will this end?
With hope now. What an idiotic thread. If you're concerned PM PA ASAP

Tom

10-06-2006, 11:56 PM

Don't read it, then!
There now, you would have thought of that sooner or later! :bang:

kingfin66

10-07-2006, 12:21 AM

Just to remind folks of PA's own words regarding this entire idea.

Dave has good intentions, but the more I think about this, the more I don't like it. Makes me sound like some sort of broke degenerate who is looking to use this website to fund a bankroll.

I'll continue to look to paid advertisers for monetary support for this website, not individual user "donations"

And I have stated in the past that any contest that requires users to PAY to enter is illegal. The only way it would be legal is if ALL MONEY received for entry fees is RETURNED to the players (and even in that case, I'm not so sure, especially here in NY). If I keep even one penny, it would violate a multitude of lottery and sweepstakes laws......

So, while I appreciate what Dave is doing, I will have to put the kibosh on any sort of telethon or pay-to-enter contest.

Sorry Dave, I should have thought about this more before I gave the green light.....

I followed with my own opinion which Bruddah responded to in a very immature manner. He may be "one of the good guys," but it didn't show in that particular post.

twindouble

10-07-2006, 09:45 AM

Just to remind folks of PA's own words regarding this entire idea.

I followed with my own opinion which Bruddah responded to in a very immature manner. He may be "one of the good guys," but it didn't show in that particular post.

Your right on PA, nothing will happen unless he says so, there isn't anything to argue about. What we all can settle on this fact,, he's has support here and that's what counts. At least he knows what he does is appreciated.

T.D.

kingfin66

10-07-2006, 12:58 PM

Yes, that is something that I think we can all agree on!

TurfRuler

10-07-2006, 02:08 PM

I support any effort to keep this board running. Now for the other boads they can be eliminated now without my help. But since joining Pace my handicapping has improved tremendously, from my first efforts 25 years ago. I don't visit the sites on this board about Pace, "smonrsequences"...the consequences of visiting this board has given me more confidence in my ability to at least believe that I can win a race that I chose to handicap. So for all you folks that don't want to or choose to contribute to the upkeep of this board to AKA PaceAdvantage, then so be it, as he says in a legalize manner he will not accept contributions, but we can also be giving, (a Jack Abramoff) help, at anytime.

Robert Fischer

10-07-2006, 03:47 PM

http://www.chrysler.com/300/img/promo_cg_best_buy.gif

http://www.chrysler.com/300/img/300_promo_2.gifhttp://www.chrysler.com/img/promos/300_edmunds_promos.jpghttp://www.chrysler.com/img/promos/300_incentives_promo.gif

Robert Fischer

10-07-2006, 04:09 PM

How creative can you be with the template? It seems there is a superfluous amount of space for messages and names. You can cut an inch from the width of the grey box that contains Name/Avatar, and two inches from the width of the white rectangle that contains the Message. That will free up thee inches running vertical(roughly the height of the example above) on the side of the Message Board.
Another thought is an advertisement that runs as a horizontal separator every three messages.
With the traffic generated it seems that a persistent effort could broker a quality advertisement deal.
If the deals are there, and the template of the board is the limiting factor, other hosts/formats may be available.
Maybe a subscription could provide an add-free environment.