Is This Normal?

[Smiley]

I have a question for everyone. We race Thoroughbreds and Arabians. This is our first year racing Arabians. We are running him at Mt. Pleasant Meadows.

Well, he won a MSW race in a photo finish. A week later, the owner of the second place horse said she wanted to see the finish line photo. Well, the stewards then said they made the wrong call and her horse was actually the winner by a sliver of a nose.

The stewards never officially informed my trainer or us. We heard it through the grape vine....

Thus, they took down my horse, a week after the race, and put her horse up as the winner. They had already paid out the bettors on race day and I don't think the bettors were ever made aware of the change. The betting public was just left in the dark.

Has anyone heard of this happening in TB racing?

We have only been racing thoroughbreds for 3 years and so are relatively new to the game.

Thought I'd ask you experts! :-0

Thanks!

[46zilzal]

you would have grounds to fight that decision as it is up to the racing association to get it right.

[Tom]

I think you should be asking that question of a LAWYER's forum! :eek:
You got screwed, and I bet you could win a suit - offficial is official - no do overs that I've ever heard of, for photos. Maybe drug test results, but the stewards are responsible for declaring the order of finish - THEY screwed up.
Good luck - hope you get this resolved, and welcome to the board!

[Smiley]

I thought it was fishy!

The real question is ..what about the bettors?

What about all the bettors who got scr***d because of the decision?

Can bettors demand to get their money after the fact?

It just doesn't seem fair to them....

Oh, thanks for the welcome.... *blush*

[saratoga guy]

A photo finish was appealed just a few weeks ago at Charles Town and the order of finish was reversed (http://www.drf.com/drfNewsArticle.do?NID=78706&subs=0&arc=1).

From the DRF article: "The highly unusual move resulted in the redistribution of the $28,000 purse...

The order of finish will not be changed for the purposes of mutuel payouts, according to Danny Wright, the chief state steward at Charles Town. Racetracks typically do not address mutuel payouts when disqualifications occur as a result of an appeal of a race or drug positive.

Wright said that an investigation had revealed that the placing judges made the mistake because they did not review a mirror-image photograph..."

A few days later the placing judges were fired.

Your situation sounds unusual with the week delay and the failure to inform you of the change -- but in the end, if your horse actually did finish second then, really, you deserve second-money, no?

[Smiley]

Saratoga Guy,

Thanks for the information on that other race. Interesting! :)

Yes, we absolutely deserve second place money! I just thought the way the whole thing went down was a little "bush league".

Plus, we all wondered if bettors who bet on the real winner could claim their money. Were they ever even told?

It all worked out good because two races laster he got 2nd in a stakes race and earned black type!! He is a homebred and our first stakes horse so it was pretty cool.

I don't think anyone at the track got fired over it-there were 3 stewards there at race time making the call. After a week, 2 went with the eventual winner and one steward still said we won... weird, huh!

[Zman179]

Smiley-

Mount Pleasant Meadows is only one rung above bush league. They can't demote the stewards there because there's nothing lower than MPM.

And I wouldn't worry about the bettors there, or more like the bettor. The average exacta pool at MPM rarely cracks $100. On a nine race card, they'll be lucky to have a total handle of $4,000 (yes, all amounts are correct.)

[Smiley]

Zman,

Bummer!!! We wish there were more tracks that allowed Arabians to run. The only other track in the east is Delaware Park. However, Delware Park is to Arabians what Saratoga is to Thoroughbreds so your horse better be among the best in the country to run there.

We figured MPM was low on the rung because it's only a 1/2 mile track and races all breeds...sometimes against each other! :-0

However, our trainer is awesome. She turns him out 24/7, cross trains him, and is a great horsewoman as well.

Maybe next year, he'll be able to run at Delaware. Our fingers are crossed!!

[point given]

Saratoga Guy,

Thanks for the information on that other race. Interesting! :)

Yes, we absolutely deserve second place money! I just thought the way the whole thing went down was a little "bush league".

Plus, we all wondered if bettors who bet on the real winner could claim their money. Were they ever even told?
.................

I don't think anyone at the track got fired over it-there were 3 stewards there at race time making the call. After a week, 2 went with the eventual winner and one steward still said we won... weird, huh!

I remember a few years ago at Sam Houston racetrack, they put up a finish of like 2-4-7 . Someone sitting closeby had 2-7-4 for the tri, and everyone thought thats how it fiinished, but they put up 2-4-7. Oh well, on to the next race, a half hour latter some guy says that they changed it to 2-7-4 and the guy cashed after looking all over the place for the ticket that he tossed. The track paid out the wrong number for the tri for 1/2 hour then only on the changed order. Of course the track GM complained that they paid out on 2 tri's and took a beating on it. No mention of all those who tossed their tickets as losers who had the right combo. :eek:

[Ron]

I thought they raced Arabians at Los Al or Sam Houston.

[46zilzal]

I thought they raced Arabians at Los Al or Sam Houston.
race all over.
http://www.horse-races.net/library/links-arabtracks.htm

[Overlay]

Racetracks typically do not address mutuel payouts when disqualifications occur as a result of an appeal of a race or drug positive.

Like what happened when Dancer's Image failed his drug test after the 1968 Derby. After extensive litigation, Forward Pass was finally declared the winner from a purse money standpoint in 1972, but the original mutuel prices were unaffected.

[Dave Schwartz]

Remember the hurdles race at Saratoga in the 80's where they disqualified the wrong horse and the stewards refused to change it after the race was made official? As I recall, a bettor took NYRA to court for a $70k payoff and lost.

[toetoe]

Way back in the '70's at SA or Hol, a photo finish was reversed, and the special comment line under the running line said something like, "official order reversed by order of the CHRB." Don't know whether the stewards were fired, but I'm pretty sure somebody cashed a nice one. I believe the horses were Knightlander and Ipse.

[kenwoodallpromos]

In your posts you did not mentuin if the tote board flashed "official", or if the photo finish was shown publicy on race day. I think you should lobby for both, and a limited time for the connections to appeal based on reviewing of a photo finish. Maybe limit appeal in that situation to trhe end of the next race day.

[Paging]

I played the Charlestown race in question. Had the tri either why - however would have been a much nicer payoff with the 24/1 shot on top.

Along that lines a number of years ago I was playing a greyhound race at an OTB. I sat there and watched a couple of dogs come out of the incorrect boxes. The race completed and I just sat their patiently with a fist full of losing tickets waiting for the "NO RACE" sign to come up on the tote board which will just refund all of the tickets. To my surprise they posted the race offical and started paying off.

I got a hold of the OTB manager who called over to the track and after about 30 mins of paying off winning tickets they then declared the race a "NO RACE" and refunded all losing tickets. Had to cost the track plenty - but they were in error and they rightfully corrected the situation.

Wish I could say the same about Charlestown.

[Smiley]

Wow!! I thought our case was an isolated incident or very rare! It looks like this has happened a bunch of times before.

Yes, our race was declared official. However, it's ok. If the other horse really did win, they deserve the money.

I just didn't like the way the whold thing went down. I bet the bettors didn't even know it was changed either.....