Where's Boxcar?

[so.cal.fan]

Box...........check in!

[Lefty]

funny, I was asking myself that same question today.
Check in, Boxy.

[Big Bill]

Boxcar has advised me by e-mail that he is very busy with a special project at this time. He'll be back soon. He asked me to post the following link:

http://www.newsmax.com/showinsidecover.shtml?a=2002/9/25/232555

Big Bill

[so.cal.fan]

Gosh, do you suppose our Boxcar is planning the attack against Irag?

[Lefty]

Unfortunately, Boxcar is against attacking Iraq, unless he's had a change of heart and mind and I don't think so.
But, when he gets back, I'm sure he'll let us know.

[Derek2U]

How could anyone talk openly of attacking any country?
This sabre-rattling is just plain stupid. And, President Bush is
DisInformation Man#1 .... can anyone truly beleive any thing of importance from him & his team? This entire administration finds
it too Easy to BS at a second's notice. Why can't this country
find a leader with courage AND honesty AND no hidden agendas?

[Tom]

Originally posted by Derek2U
...
.....Why can't this country
find a leader with courage AND honesty AND no hidden agendas?

Because no honest man could ever get elected to a high office - they are are already owned and controlled. We have to settle for whatever we can get that isn't spelled G-O-R-E.
As far as attacking Iraq, they should only be the first on our list.
there is a whole lot of killin' that need to be done. You don't get rid of roaches by opening the door and yelling "shoo!" You have to spray. And spray. And spray.

[Derek2U]

Can they actually do a brain transplant these days?
What about his decrepit decayed body? I do hope he doesnt't
survive ... for the betterment of planet earth of course.

[Larry Hamilton]

That is a question you need to find an answer to as quickly as possible.

By the way--sabre-rattling is threatening without action

[Lefty]

derek, I often wonder what is wrong with people like you? You sit back and want to be a peacenik and say how can we talk about attacking any country? It's called survival. Remember 9-11?
If we sit back and let Iraq go ahead with all its plans we will suffer and the world will suffer.
Bush is an honest man.
The only disinformation out there is put out by whoever you're listening to.

[so.cal.fan]

Derek:
You write:
Can they actually do a brain transplant these days?
What about his decrepit decayed body? I do hope he doesnt't
survive ... for the betterment of planet earth of course.

Gosh, I hope you aren't talking about our dear sweet Boxcar?
Sorry, PA, didn't mean to start a thread on war and peace.
Just wondered where the "Boxster" was.
:)

[Derek2U]

hehe what a cool retro phrase especially since I'm going to a
MOD club tonight ... I'm not a Warrior nor a PeaceNik, but I do
beleive that killing is a Serious-Serious issue. But please stop
parroting that Bush is a honest man: from his Very election to
this Very minute Bush lies/disInforms on so many, many issues.
And he surrounds himself with too many incompetents/oldies.
Now, it's not that Bush LIES at every waking moment, but I
would have to say that he's a LIAR since, by my count, he has
told us 4,567,850 LIES to date.

[Dave Schwartz]

D2U,

>>>"...he has told us 4,567,850 LIES to date.<<<

Please take the time to name them all.

Handwritten would be preferred, but typed, double spaced on 8 1/2 x 11 would be acceptable. Please check back in with us as soon as you've listed them all. I, for one, am always anxious to hear from you.

Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[Tom]

Originally posted by Dave Schwartz
D2U,

>>>"...he has told us 4,567,850 LIES to date.<<<

Please take the time to name them all.

Handwritten would be preferred, but typed, double spaced on 8 1/2 x 11 would be acceptable. Please check back in with us as soon as you've listed them all. I, for one, am always anxious to hear from you.

Regards,
Dave Schwartz

Ariel, 10 point font would be appreciated.

[Lefty]

derek, where in heck do you get your non-facts? Go to your Mod club, get blasted and please don't bother to vote. too many ill informed people do.

[JustRalph]

Originally posted by Derek2U
And he surrounds himself with too many incompetents/oldies.
[/B]

Some of those incompetent oldies are the same ones who helped bring down the Soviets, the Berlin Wall, and soon enough Saddam. :cool: Don Rumsfield and Colin Powell make me sleep a hell of a lot better than I did the previous 8 years. Even some of Gore's people are saying nowadays they are glad Bush is President.

Derek, one question please. Did you ever serve in the Military?

[Larry Hamilton]

whoops

[Derek2U]

JUST RALPH .... Just 4 the Record ... Im 32 and I NEVER served
in the Military and by some standards I'm the kinda guy who
had Everything given to him without effort and spoiled rotten
by doting, educated parents and an Only Child also. Yikes,
even I hate myself when I type these words. hehe ... Hey what
can I say: I try VERY hard to keep my Eyes Wide Open & accept
lots of people who had much less but I do prefer a certain class of persons. Anyways, my work & living in NYC, makes me rub shoulders with lots, lots of different peeps & that is so
stimulating. I'm 10,000% Loyal & Loving the USA and I am also
10,000% the same to our military Guys & Girls, but I do question
our Leaders, the ones who don't go off to war. Afghanistan was
a total necessary WAR ... no doubt about it ... we had NO CHOICE
in doing that. But Iraq ... I need much more convincing.

[Lefty]

Derek, needs more convincing. How many more people need die, I wonder, before he's convinced? Jeez, didn't getting the inspectors kicked out during the Clinton administration convince you? I guess you need a building to fall on you before you're convinced.
Don't worry, though... I was once 32 but I got over it.

[Larry Hamilton]

the thing I remember so well about being 30-anything was the STUFF I didn't know yet. Similarly, I also had the same problem as D2U, I wanted everyone to know how much I didnt know. As I get older, I remember something my dad was fond of telling me (OFTEN)--"you dont learn much with your mouth open".

[Dave Schwartz]

IMHO, the only way the left will get this is if we do nothing and wait for them to do it to us.

Then they will say something like, "Yes, in hindsight we should have done something."

It is amazing that this will be the same group that is screaming we did not do enough BEFORE 9/11.

They always decline to take action then complain when action wasn't taken in time.

Monday morning quarterbacks, all.

Dave Schwartz

[Derek2U]

Couldn't it also be that Iraq may cost us more than we can
ever imagine. I just want us to be better protected if we
should invade Iraq. And I'm not too keen on the strategy of
pre-emption. Yeah its complicated but I need more proof or
something close to it.

[Larry Hamilton]

Before Clinton, the military was 1.5 million strong and perfectly capable of invading, if necessary, on 2 fronts. Clinton, who likes to brag about the govt jobs he got rid of, will not admit that nearly 1 million of the gov jobs he eliminated were SOLDIERS. So what does the military strategists do under clinton? They change the mission. Now they are capable of only 3/4 of one coast protection and will require draft and national guard to protect us on both coasts. These facts are available to all. This is no secret. The reason I bring all this up is that you say you fear invation. We are not capable of invading Tiajuana let alone protect a coast.

You want more proof. Count our military combat capable soldiers/marines. Where are they? They used to be in Ft Hood Texas, Ft Stewart Ga, Ft Lewis Wa, Ft Benning, GA, Ft Bragg NC, Ft knox ky, and the jarhead forts. Go to anyone of these forts..no combat soldiers, Instead, you got to look oversears, they are involved in "peace keeping" missions. The mission of the armed forces is, and I quote Rush Limbaugh here is to "kill peoplle and break things", not to keep the peace. This is important to note because it is an indication that the combat troops we have are MIStrained.

As to proof that the Iraqis are a terrorist country. My God, havent you seen the pictures of the Kurds who were gassed. I don't believe any can look at the daily reports and pictures and listen to the rhetoric of the Iraqis and conclude anything else. I am left with two conclusions: You are either trying to make a light-hearted conversation about a serious matter which demands the utmost seriousness (1 million lies indeed) or you genuinely dont know the facts, in which case, FIND OUT! This matter is too serious for sophmoric crap..find another topic, this one is one that is going to cost lives of soldiers who deserve better than silly bull shit.

[Derek2U]

Yeah of course Iraq is a terrorist state. Agreed. But I don't
want to risk OUR guys against SH until I'm VERY sure we
(a) SHOULD attack; (b) WILL WIN big without losing OUR guys.

Plus I really think we should try real hard to get MORE support
from other countries. That would be useful.

[Larry Hamilton]

where does our constitution state that each/every/any citizens must be convinced of the necessity of war?

Soldiers are always risked; it's part of war; it's also what they get paid to do; and because of the warriar mentality, most of them wouldnt have any other way. We have had the luxury lately of what are called "force multipliers" (our air forces--supported by our special forces on the ground to paint targets)..This kind of warfare will allow us to bomb them into the stone age with few casualties, but if no ground is held, nothing is gained; it's only put off.

[Larry Hamilton]

I have revised my conclusions; You are playing me and the rest along for your own entertainment, without regard to the seriousness of the subject. I have nothing left to say to you.

[Lefty]

We had the backing of other countries last time we visited Iraq and what happened? They prevented us from going ALL THE WAY.
On our own we can take out the little bastard.
BTW, France and Russia have ulterior motives for not joining us: France is getting illegal oil and Russia has a bunch of unpaid loans they want back from Sadaam.

[Tom]

Remember the Gulf War? Remember all the crap we heard about what an elite fighting machine the Iraqi Army was? Remember how they fell over each other trying to surrender to us when we went in? Our mistake was that we should have gunned them all done and kept going then. This time, we need to do a more thorough bombing job-totally destroy all target, no matter where they are, under h ospital, in housing tracts, next to schools. This is war. It ain't pretty. Kill your enemy and anyone near him. And then......Iran?

[Dave Schwartz]

Several people have made quotes about "not being convinced" or "not having enough proof" that Iraq will do us harm.

I am just curious. What would it take to be convinced?

This is a serious question on my part and not simply a rhetorical one.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[Aussieplayer]

Are you serious Tom? I mean with the "bomb the bastards" attitude? Roaches were mentioned as well. Does it not EVER occur to Americans, that the USA might be percieved to be the big, fat roach of the world? Or, is "putting oneself in the other man's shoes," not part of the capacity of the average American?

One thing seems to certainly be the pervading attitude: America has always been right, and always will be.

Your friend.

[Triple Trio]

Originally posted by Tom
This time, we need to do a more thorough bombing job-totally destroy all target, no matter where they are, under h ospital, in housing tracts, next to schools.

Tom,

I've resisted jumping into this thread because I don't think it's a good idea for me as a foreigner to participate in a heated political discussion between Americans. However, your comments send a chill down my spine. Aren't you bothered that your advocated bombings will cause enormous loss of innocent Iraqi lives?

-TT

[Tom]

Triple Trio, Aussie,
You are always welcome to voice your opinions. I agree with the chills done the spine comment - I feel it, too. It is not something I look forward to. And to Aussie, you are wrong - I do not always think that bombong the bastards is right. I was and am completely opposed to the Viet Nam war and I believe our govn't and Nixon in particular were war criminals. I believe Bill Clinton is a traitor and should face a firing squad. But I also know that Iraq is a major threat and if we go to war , we have to do terrible things. Innocent people were killed in Germany and Japan when we bombed the hell out of them - but I don't hear anyone compalining about that. Had we not taken out Japan, what do you think your life in Austrailia would be like today? And if it weren't for our help in Europe, where France be today?
We are at war, and what happened in NYC on 9-11 must be prevented from happening again. And it is not the case that the US is always right, it is the case that we are right this time, and I don't think we should let anything as worthless as the united nations stand in our way. We aren't global murderers and pillagers as some would like to think, and I make this offer to anyone in the world that dosen't like us....feel free to send back the cash. I for one an sick and tired of sending my tax dollars overseas.
War is never a good thing, but it is sometimes a necessary thing.
You question my desire to bomb target even if they are under hospitals? Why not condem the murdering bastard who put them there in the first place?
If one thinig was made clear after 9-11, it is that world peace is not possible, and it is a myth. There are three stages of mankind: war, rebuilding from war, and preparing for war. Perhaps if terrosits deploy chemical weapons in Melbourne, you will feel the anger I do. As long as we allow the terrorists and those that support them to live, no one is safe.

[boxcar]

Hi, Guys and Dolls

I'm back, but only for the moment. I thought I heard my name being bandied around -- and then this big ruckus down the cyberhall from where I've thrown my hat for a season. But it is nice to be missed...er...by nearly everyone.

Thanks, Big Bill, for posting that link. Appreciate it.

As BB pointed out, I'm busily engaged on another forum -- a forum a lot different than this one. It's a Christian email list and the central theme to the list is the "end times". I've been wanting to do a serious study on the branch of theology known as eschatology for some time, and so I joined this list because it provides the impetus I need to get started. I really want to dig in deep to the Book of Revelation, but apocalyptic literature isn't easy to understand due to all the figurative and symbolic langauge it employs. Therefore, the nature of this book demands that I use the clear, plain, unambiguous portions of scripture to help shed light on the more obscure passages. This is very time consuming work. However, I have bought this really nifty piece of bible software that does everything for me but cook my lunch. Not only does it contain eight different versions of the bible, but there is a wealth of study resources in it, such as bible dictionaries, maps, topical bibles, word studies works, concordances, bible encyclopedias, interlinear bible, and a whole slew of commentaries. I've already made good progress in my work, which wouldn't have been possible without the software. So much for what I'm doing...

Have I changed my mind any about invading Iraq? Not really. All objections at this point in time stand. I still maintain that ol' Saaadamm is a survivor first and foremost, and that we should issue the sternest of warnings to him that if we even suspect that he's behind any terroist activities involving U.S. interests anywhere in the world, we will personally invite him to a weenie roast -- American style! I just don't think he's suicidal.

Another big reason I don't want to see our troops in there is because democracy isn't for everyone. We would be going in there trying to force a Western style decmocratic government down the throats of people who have known nothing for centuries but dictatorship rule. The mindset and attitudes of people in the Middle East are entirely different from ours. Democracy is something that would have to be spoon-fed to these people for a _long_ time in order to get them to change their ways -- their very culture, in fact! Do we really want to get ourselves bogged down in that? And at what horrendous cost to us taxpayers? Look at Pakistan! Great model of democracy, isn't it? Musharaff keeps putting off elections time and again. He no more wants a democratic form of government than Huessein does!

At any rate...this is my 3 cents worth <g>, if it's worth that much. But I miss you guys and Lord willin' and the crik doesn't rise will be back before too long.

Y'all take care.

Boxcar

[David McKenzie]

This morning I received the following email from a friend of mine. He's a federal attorney in Washington, D.C. who drafts official U.S. policy.

And while we are of different political philosophical bents [I'm a registered Republican and he's Tinkerbell], I find this highly disturbing.

What *else* don't we know about?

// Didja know that there was an anti-war protest in London on the 28th hat drew approximately 400,000 people? (Official count 150,100 -reality probably somewhere in between)

What? You didn't hear about that in the Liberal Elite Controlled
Media? [Facetiousness, in reference to an earlier discussion]

Well, check this out, they got the pictures to prove it.

uk.indymedia.org

Then check this out. Washington Post, the political "paper of
record". No mention of it in the US editions. So, I checked the
World editions, and finally, the U.K. specific edition:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/world/europe/westerneurope/unitedkingdom/

Not a word.

There's something happening here. What it is, is becoming more and more clear.//

[Lefty]

Aussie, whenever there's a disaster ANYWHERE in this world the first one there is always us Americans with manpower and money.
And still they say they don't like us.
Up to me i'd say the hell with the rest of the world and cut off the money supply to the ungrateful ingrates.
This American is sick of being critisized after all we've done.
Ibstead of griping about dictators who starve and enslave, the ingrates of the world choose to point fingers at us.
This American has one finger pointing back.

[Aussieplayer]

Tom,

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I have no firm convictions - I am simply willing to explore possibilities, even one's that make (me) uncomfortable.
You mention that no one is complaining about Hiroshima etc. but that is my point when debating the issue with my girlfriend - how can America think of itself as righteous, when what was done on 911 has been done BY America before? Okay, not quite the same I grant you - but thoughts like that perplex me.

Hey, I'm not Anti-American, nor am I necessarily anti-war. These issues hurt my little mind. :)

There was an article (wish I could find the link) showing how America should also be invading Arabia - and quite the opposite occured with Bush phoning them to remind them of their "enternal friendship."

Also, was it not America who (in a way), "created" Osama not too many years ago, for their own purposes?

You also say, "to anyone who doesn't like us, send the cash back." But I would think that money's sent out has always had America's agenda attched to it?

My mum is from Croatia. It interested me to see what went on there (and for how long) before the UN (America) did anything. Especially compared to response time to the Gulf War. There was no oil in Yugoslavia, so I presume that had something to do with it? Hardly the "noble keepers of the peace of the world!"

We (the rest of the world) live under the American empire, it is as simple as that. If you're American, well, that'd be like a Roman living in Rome I guess. If you're not, well, even Rome had it's Ben Hur's.

Lefty: Please don't forget that Australia is (always has been) right by your side when you say that America is always there first with manpower and money.
Cut off the money supply you say? Hmmm.....yes I agree....maybe that would have prevented 911 then?

Current worl events are complex and mind boggling - at least they are to me.

I hope no one takes me wrong - I just don't want to be someone who laps up everything the TV tells him. I want to question it all.

Cheers, your friend (I mean that sincerely),
Steve
AP

[Tom]

They tried that in Europe and gave Hitler the time he needed to blitzkrieg all the way to the Atlantic.
I don't think world politic are complicated at all - mess wtih us and we mess back.
Declare jihad on us and we will attack you.
Violate the previous UN resolutions and gas your own people and try to build weapons of war and we will take you out.
Harbor terrorists and you are now a target.
Be a stinking, lousy, pathetic excuse of a loser country and we will come in support you and then get flack from everyone for have an agenda attached to our care packages. Just how many centuries do these third world jokes need to stand up on thier own feet and support themselves....let's find out!
I'm with Lefty-we need the rest of the world like we need a hole in the head.
Let Japan feed the world. Oh, that's right, they can't!
And Russia will feed everyone...oh I fogot - they can't feed themselves.
Let me tell you something about America.....I have everything I need to live the rest of my life in peace and comfort within walking distance of my front door, including a racetrack (with NO Arabian races<G>). I need nothing from any other state, let alone any other country.
People are just upset because we bombed the hell of Afgahnastan - probably did $1.47 damage.
If I sound like I am looking down on the rest of the world, that is because it is the only way I can see most of it.
(Nothing personal here, just discussin, but you can't tell from text the feeling behind words. I am tired of hearing how bad we are while I personally chell out tons of money every payday that goes to help people all over the world-why don't people wake up and see who the real enemies are?

[Dave Schwartz]

AussiePlayer,

>>>You mention that no one is complaining about Hiroshima etc. but that is my point when debating the issue with my girlfriend - how can America think of itself as righteous, when what was done on 911 has been done BY America before? Okay, not quite the same I grant you - but thoughts like that perplex me.<<<

You are right about one thing... it is not QUITE the same thing.

I am amzed that anyone could compare the two actions any more than we could be faulted for Hiroshima. Recall that Japan attacked us. Was the end result horrible? You bet it was. That is how war is... horrible.

And, if you think war is an ugly thing from afar, you should try being a ground-pounder in one.

Picture this: It is WW2, and before dropping any atomic bombs the congress decides to take a poll of the troops on Guadacanal. "Okay, so how many are for ending this war without one more single American (or Australian) life being lost? A show of hands please..."

Whaddya think? Would a few hands go up?

And here we are in this luxurious time where, thanks to them that paid the price, we can sit back and moralize, saying, "No, I think we should wait awhile longer. Perhaps we can TALK them back to Tokyo."

Sound silly? No sillier than trying to get Saddam Hussein to do anything with conversation.

We tried bombing him. That didn't work. Then we tried U.N. resolutions. Nope, no luck. We've even embargoed him. Nothing phases him.

He IS making weapons. He WILL use them.

I have asked the question twice now... When is the proper time to attack? When will it be "right?"

Do we need to lose 10,000 people first? 100,000? A million? Is there a number somewhere that tips the scale?

Just my opinion.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz

PS: Have your girlfriend lose her brother to a terrorist attack... I bet it would change her viewpoint a bit.

[Aussieplayer]

Tom,

Once again I appreciate your reply.

You are right when you say, "why don't people wake up and see who the real enemies are." From an Aussie point of view, I wholeheartedly agree. We are allies and friends, in fact, your President (during Prime Minister John Howard's recent visit) claimed that Australia is America's best friend. And that is without a doubt TRUE!

I haven't been very clear, and I will try to be a little clearer. The "average" Joe Blow Iraqui, (and other countries of course), HATE America. Presumably that is their cultural upbringing - what they see on TV etc. etc. influencing their views. I wonder what it would be like if (I) were born in one of those countries, and had that bias as well. Which then makes me question how we might all be at least a bit biased because of where we are. Know what I mean? There must be reasons BEHIND the hate that the average Joe has as well. As in, behind the bias and all, there must be arguments and reasons as to WHY they should hate America so. Now, those reasons are no doubt unfounded & faulty etc. but I would be interested in what they are, simply because - I DON'T KNOW!! I am not really of an understanding as to how things got where they are, and I studied enough of history to realise how biased various accounts can be - depending on where you live basically.

Dave:

You paint a very strong argument - you have opened my mind on the issue considerably. The length of time, and the various processes re: Saddam is something that I was not considering, and am now.

Hey, this is not me sitting out here talking about it for fun. Apparently we have Al Queda concerns in our region (south east Asia) that could directly effect Australia. So it is very real here as well.

In a debate, one can gain a stronger sense of one's own views simply by considering the opposing view. I would like to hear more than I have (which is practically zero) about what (and why) the chip on the shoulder of certain countries is all about and where it originated from.

........I imagine if Bronni had lost a brother in a terrorist attack her views WOULD in fact be somewhat different.
She is tired of all the "we love America" stuff that WE get on TV, and wonders about it all.

War is horrible yes. War might well be necessary, yes. But I would simply like to also understand why the enemy IS the way they are, and what it must be like for Mr Joe Average Iraqui.

Cheers
Steve

[Dave Schwartz]

Steve,

LOL - I began writing a response and pretty quickly had written a new Gettysberg Address. I went so far afield that you can't imagine... So I started again.

The joke at my house (I started it, I think) is that everyone is entitled to MY opinion. <G>

Seriously though, I do respect your right to your opinion. There are no hard feelings on my part here... passion, yes, but no hard feelings.

I recall working up a good psuedo-hate for communists just about the time I enlisted (Viet Nam era). That was no more based in reality than the hatred many countries have for us. But it got me through. It is simply easier to fight a war if you have more than a casual dislike for your enemy. A combination of ignorance AND youth goes a long way.

Of course, I can chalk much of that up to youth as well. Amazing how the phrase "do the right thing" changes meaning as we experience life and simply grow older.


Warm Regards,
Dave Schwartz

[Tom]

Aussie,
I see your point.
I don't know what kind of TV coverage you saw down under, but here, we were saturated with personal stories, amature video with voices as it happened. One picture on the front page of a NY paper showed a fire truck racing over the bridge with the flaming towers in the background. An inside picture showed the same truck totally destoyed by the falling bebris. One show had a fireman on film heading out for the towers. He was killed and we saw the rest of his crew waiting for him to come back that night.
We got to see some woman run into a store just a second before a wall of dirt and rocks came shooting past the front door. We heard her cry out "you saved my life!"
We saw people jumping out of windows from the 90th floor and higher rather than burn alive. We heard the "POPS" as their bodies hit the ground.
Maybe the Iraqi's have similar thoughts about us, but personally, I don't care. We have ours, now. And whatever it takes, we will not let it happen again.
Look at Afgahnastan....we did not pillage and plunder it after we got rid of the terorists - we are helping them to re-build. (I think it was me that posted on 9-11-01 that we should nuke every square mile, so you know I am not in charge here<G>).
I don't think we are looking to do house to house battle in Iraq and I think we will end up helping the vast majority of them that live in fear of Hussein today, but it is most likely some will die.
Maybe some will rise up and join us when we go in? Time will
tell.
Hey, gotta go.....time to get some shut eye. Been cool yackin' with you.

Take care, and
G'day, mate.

(BTW, Austrailia is one of the few places I would like visit in this world these days. My neighbor's daughter moved there 20+ years ago and loves it)

[Aussieplayer]

Tom & Dave,

......I think that perhaps if all the world would learn to play the horses, we would then truly live in peace & harmony :)

Cheers
Steve

[keilan]

United States is again in the position of shaping and defining how people like myself and my children will live our tomorrows. I'm a 3rd generation Canadian who clearly understands that the freedoms, liberties, opportunities and advantages I enjoy in life are gifts I have inherited because of where I was born and raised. My family and friends also understand this and to a man, we support and would fight along side our fellow Americans in whatever military action the United States takes against any terrorist organization or anyone who sanctions or supports terrorism. Our Prime Minister does not speak for most Canadians on many issues and this is especially true when it comes to some comments made after 911. This is not a time in history for any Country to sit on the fence. Thanks Giving Day is soon approaching and many Canadians will give thanks that the United States are our neighbours and friends. To those that have posted with passion, anger, and honesty you are not alone.

[so.cal.fan]

Aussie writes:
A solution for world peace?
Tom & Dave,

......I think that perhaps if all the world would learn to play the horses, we would then truly live in peace & harmony


Do you really think so, Aussie?
I don't.
We would still all be FIGHTING over which handicapping method was the best and who was full of BS!

We would have to have social programs to take care of the biggest losers........it would just turn into the same mess we have now........<sigh>

What is going on in the world is just a part of the world's evolution.
Now if each and every individual did what created peace and harmony for them, the world would quickly evolve, because in order to live in peace and harmony, one must be a good person.

:)

PS:
I know all of us on the board here, would still play horses.........;)