Colin Powell New Biography

[Secretariat]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20509967-23109,00.html

Powell 'warned Bush of Iraq quagmire'

From correspondents in Washington
October 02, 2006

FORMER US secretary of state Colin Powell warned President George W. Bush he was facing a difficult insurgency in Iraq in their final meeting in January last year, a new biography of Mr Powell claims.

Washington Post associate editor Karen DeYoung, in an excerpt from her forthcoming biography of the former chief diplomat in the Post today, said Mr Powell told Mr Bush the coming Iraqi elections and US promotion of democracy for the country were not likely to quell the insurgency.

He also warned that divisions between the State Department and the politically more powerful Department of Defence were undermining Mr Bush's global diplomatic efforts, including in problem areas such as the North Korean nuclear problem and the Arab-Israeli conflict.

However, DeYoung wrote, Mr Powell, who had been asked by the White House to resign several weeks before, found Mr Bush dismissive and unconcerned, as unwilling to heed his top diplomat's warnings as he had been for the previous four years.

Mr Powell afterward called the meeting, a formal final face-to-face between the two men before Mr Powell would be replaced by Condoleezza Rice, as "really strange", DeYoung said.

"The president didn't know why I was there," Mr Powell said.

DeYoung's Powell biography, Soldier: The Life of Colin Powell, to be released on October 10, is among a number of new books which tear into the Bush administration's policy-making and handling of the Iraq invasion and occupation."

[kenwoodallpromos]

After Kerry folded in 2004 Bush said he was going to spend his political capitol and that is what he is doing, like it or not.
I just think all the people that are bringing out books would tell the truth, that they are trying to get the Repubs defeated in Congress in Nov.; it is so obvious.
If the Demos take control I am positive they will cut Iraq funding and try to impeach. Fine by me, whatever the voters set in motion.
IMO it is time for the military to go to protect Iraq's Iran brder from weapons coming in and protect the oil pipelines and fields and force the Iraqis to keep order or else just get out altogether- we do not need to be refereeing a civil war amonsgst people determined to kill themselves or each other. If we are after the oil let's just go get it!

[sq764]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20509967-23109,00.html

Powell 'warned Bush of Iraq quagmire'

From correspondents in Washington
October 02, 2006

FORMER US secretary of state Colin Powell warned President George W. Bush he was facing a difficult insurgency in Iraq in their final meeting in January last year, a new biography of Mr Powell claims.

Washington Post associate editor Karen DeYoung, in an excerpt from her forthcoming biography of the former chief diplomat in the Post today, said Mr Powell told Mr Bush the coming Iraqi elections and US promotion of democracy for the country were not likely to quell the insurgency.

He also warned that divisions between the State Department and the politically more powerful Department of Defence were undermining Mr Bush's global diplomatic efforts, including in problem areas such as the North Korean nuclear problem and the Arab-Israeli conflict.

However, DeYoung wrote, Mr Powell, who had been asked by the White House to resign several weeks before, found Mr Bush dismissive and unconcerned, as unwilling to heed his top diplomat's warnings as he had been for the previous four years.

Mr Powell afterward called the meeting, a formal final face-to-face between the two men before Mr Powell would be replaced by Condoleezza Rice, as "really strange", DeYoung said.

"The president didn't know why I was there," Mr Powell said.

DeYoung's Powell biography, Soldier: The Life of Colin Powell, to be released on October 10, is among a number of new books which tear into the Bush administration's policy-making and handling of the Iraq invasion and occupation."
And people are supposed to believe this....why?

I mean I know it's the cool thing to do now - get out of the limelight, then write a book about how you warned everyone 9/11 and Iraq.. Face it, Powell turned out to be a spineless coward who was a huge disappointment who was totally overmatched in his position..

With those qualities, he was the perfect Dem candidate.

[lsbets]

Face it, Powell turned out to be a spineless coward who was a huge disappointment who was totally overmatched in his position..



Everytime I think I have read the dumbest post in OT, another one sneaks in that qualifies as a potential winner. That is one of the dumbest comments I have ever read.

[46zilzal]

always got the impression that Colin Powell was simply a dissenting voice in policy and resigned before he was replaced.

[richrosa]

Each new book that comes out is "How I would have done Iraq better". Yet when these people had a chance to effect policy or run for office with a plan all we got were "I could do it better", with no specifics. In fact, here we are in another election cycle and the opposition cannot declare specifics of a plan. Some say that if they do, they would lose each election where they declare love for the "cut and run" plan.

The bottom line is this. When the people elect you, you represent the people and you get to choose the plan. If you favor another plan in Iraq, please tell us ALL what the plan is, and then let us elect you on the merits of that plan. If Powell has high office aspirations he will have to run for office on that plan, then all of us American voters will get to choose.

I'm all for opposition and opinion, but this time its thin, and clearly not what the American people want. Forget polls as voters count more. If the American people wanted an alternative plan, the opposition would firmly declare one and sweep a mandated election that would empower them to enforce it. I just don't see it happening.

[46zilzal]

Colin Powell, an experienced officer, I believe, understood that the RUMMY plan was flawed and had a lot of his friends in the Army agreeing with him. It IS RUMMY and his head in the sand that keeps this a quagmire.

THAT along with the idea that it was dumb to ever invade in the first place.

[sq764]

Everytime I think I have read the dumbest post in OT, another one sneaks in that qualifies as a potential winner. That is one of the dumbest comments I have ever read.
And yet you have that knack for following up these 'dumb' posts with your own form of idiocy.. Consistent, I will give you that.

[sq764]

Colin Powell, an experienced officer, I believe, understood that the RUMMY plan was flawed and had a lot of his friends in the Army agreeing with him. It IS RUMMY and his head in the sand that keeps this a quagmire.

THAT along with the idea that it was dumb to ever invade in the first place.
This must be why he gave that speech to the UN emphasizing the need to invade IRaq and that he, himself, based it on credible sources..right?

[sq764]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20509967-23109,00.html

Powell 'warned Bush of Iraq quagmire'

From correspondents in Washington
October 02, 2006

FORMER US secretary of state Colin Powell warned President George W. Bush he was facing a difficult insurgency in Iraq in their final meeting in January last year, a new biography of Mr Powell claims.

Washington Post associate editor Karen DeYoung, in an excerpt from her forthcoming biography of the former chief diplomat in the Post today, said Mr Powell told Mr Bush the coming Iraqi elections and US promotion of democracy for the country were not likely to quell the insurgency.

He also warned that divisions between the State Department and the politically more powerful Department of Defence were undermining Mr Bush's global diplomatic efforts, including in problem areas such as the North Korean nuclear problem and the Arab-Israeli conflict.

However, DeYoung wrote, Mr Powell, who had been asked by the White House to resign several weeks before, found Mr Bush dismissive and unconcerned, as unwilling to heed his top diplomat's warnings as he had been for the previous four years.

Mr Powell afterward called the meeting, a formal final face-to-face between the two men before Mr Powell would be replaced by Condoleezza Rice, as "really strange", DeYoung said.

"The president didn't know why I was there," Mr Powell said.

DeYoung's Powell biography, Soldier: The Life of Colin Powell, to be released on October 10, is among a number of new books which tear into the Bush administration's policy-making and handling of the Iraq invasion and occupation."
If he had such strong convictions about opposing the war, why did he support it? And if he supported it just to 'play along', where is his integrity?

[richrosa]

Scott, when you write a book you must actually forget what you really said while you were in the job.

Also, don't forget that Rummy, Rove, Cheney, Haliburton, Big Oil, WalMart and Ronald McDonald all had a gun to Powell's head to make that speech.

The speech, which by the way was a classic, and one that I will not soon forget. Powell was awesome that day. It was certainly the highlight of his career. If you don't think so, get a transcript or better yet the video of it.

[46zilzal]

Powell got "fed up" with the B.S. and resigned.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/08/19/powell.un/

awesome speech? His aides say differently and this one was there.

[twindouble]

Colin Powell, an experienced officer, I believe, understood that the RUMMY plan was flawed and had a lot of his friends in the Army agreeing with him. It IS RUMMY and his head in the sand that keeps this a quagmire.

I'm totally disgusted with Powell, no balls at all. No one can tell me in his gut he knew the intelligence on Iraq was flawed yet he jumped in head first with his UN speech supporting all that was handed to him. Now isn't the time to criticize the war in Iraq. Regardless taking out Saddam was a good thing and Bush is right to take the fight over there. What pisses me off is we still aren't taking on the real enemy, that's Syria, Iran. :mad: Further more, we are playing pussy foot in Pakistan, Iraq and Afganistan. :bang: Not only that we are doing nothing to slience those that are churning out more radicals through out the middles east and elsewhere. Those religious Temples are training camps for terrorists. We are not fighting a "WAR" it's a pacification program with American deaths attached to it. We need Tom to take over.

T.D.

[46zilzal]

the fellow reporting his disgust at having to read a report he thought to be pure fabrication is just another fib huh?

I thought it showed a lot of guts to bow out after someone found out they were part of a phoney show.

[twindouble]

the fellow reporting his disgust at having to read a report he thought to be pure fabrication is just another fib huh?

I thought it showed a lot of guts to bow out after someone found out they were part of a phoney show.

I didn't read anything on what anyone had to say about Powell or any report, I just give my opinion on how I see things. Powell is no long presidential material as I thought prior to him joining Bush. I draw my own conclusions, not what others are spinning out there.


T.D.

[sq764]

Powell got "fed up" with the B.S. and resigned.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/08/19/powell.un/

awesome speech? His aides say differently and this one was there.
yeah, easy to believe 2 years later eh?

Powell had no sac and zero integrity. Again, he would have been the perfect Dem candidate.

[46zilzal]

from Woodward's interview at MSNBC site:"Having the chairman of the Joint Chiefs as the principal military adviser to the president, the National Security Council and the secretary of Defense—which is what the Goldwater-Nichols Act requires—means that, by law, he must present independent advice, and the record shows that Rumsfeld bleached this out of the system. And in the end, President Bush, Rumsfeld, and certainly the public lost a great deal when that independent voice was shut down. Presidents cannot have yes-men and do their job well." the essence of incestuous amplification.

[sq764]

the fellow reporting his disgust at having to read a report he thought to be pure fabrication is just another fib huh?

I thought it showed a lot of guts to bow out after someone found out they were part of a phoney show.
it was the easy thing for him to do.. Now he can write his book and try to convince everyone how much he was against the war, blah blah blah..

Money wins in the end again

[46zilzal]

yeah, easy to believe 2 years later eh?

Powell had no sac and zero integrity. Again, he would have been the perfect Dem candidate.
you have a remarkable "hang up" on the date of things. An event happens, is recorded and is still that event no matter the time.

[sq764]

you have a remarkable "hang up" on the date of things. An event happens, is recorded and is still that event no matter the time.
his speech was in 2003 and his aide comes out in 2005 with his regrets..

I know you do your damndest to support anything or anyone that could be anti-bush, but you're not going to win with supporting Powell. He was a rising 'star' in the game a few years ago, now he is an afterthought.

[46zilzal]

Having read Profiles in Courage as a child, I have always admired people who stood up for what they believed in over public points of view. That includes the rutabaga in his demented way.

History will show that Powell was right to get out of something tainted and ridiculous: Iraq and this stupid waste of life and resources.

[sq764]

Having read Profiles in Courage as a child, I have always admired people who stood up for what they believed in over public points of view. That includes the rutabaga in his demented way.

History will show that Powell was right to get out of something tainted and ridiculous: Iraq and this stupid waste of life and resources.
What you fail to recognize or acknowledge is that Powell was a large, supportive representative behind the Iraq war. The fact that you dispise Bush for the war yet admire Powell, is hypocritical in itself.

[46zilzal]

I admire people who say "The king has no clothes." WE ALL NEED TO SHOUT THIS everday as this clown continues on his reckless inane course.

Unlike the "angy young man" syndrome, I hate no one as the rutabaga DAILY continues to provide many opportunities to observe, and LAUGH at, total incompetence.

[sq764]

I admire people who say "The king has no clothes." WE ALL NEED TO SHOUT THIS everday as this clown continues on his reckless inane course.

Unlike the "angy young man" syndrome, I hate no one as the rutabaga DAILY continues to provide many opportunities to observe, and LAUGH at, total incompetence.
You lost the right to shout that when you went to Canada. Don't you worry about what's going on down here.. You've got your own problems up there..

[46zilzal]

another authoriatarian. Poor Garret, I feel for him with you as an example.

[lsbets]

And yet you have that knack for following up these 'dumb' posts with your own form of idiocy.. Consistent, I will give you that.

I find it quite humorous that a guy who has never served, has made excuses for why he can't (and made them here on this board), states that Powell is a coward. Even at his retirement age, I have little doubt it would take that coward more than a few seconds to teach you a lesson in respect. You want to call my reply my own form of idiocy, fine - go enlist and then we can see how tough you are. Seriously, you are not qualified to speak of Powell or anyone else who has worn the uniform with anything but respect.

[sq764]

another authoriatarian. Poor Garret, I feel for him with you as an example.
He doesn't like spineless cowards either.. Nor does he admire sac-less liars, unlike you.. He's got a pretty good set of standards already.. You could learn from him.

[sq764]

I find it quite humorous that a guy who has never served, has made excuses for why he can't (and made them here on this board), states that Powell is a coward. Even at his retirement age, I have little doubt it would take that coward more than a few seconds to teach you a lesson in respect. You want to call my reply my own form of idiocy, fine - go enlist and then we can see how tough you are. Seriously, you are not qualified to speak of Powell or anyone else who has worn the uniform with anything but respect.
I have made excuses why I couldn't serve? What the hell are you talking about??.. Please point these out.

Don't make shit up, it's unbecoming, even of you. You're embarrassing yourself yet again.

[46zilzal]

Nor does he admire sac-less liars,
what pray tell, is a sac-less liar?

Is sac-less (with the hyphen) even a word? Must have learned it from Jim Rome or someone.

[46zilzal]

I You're embarrassing yourself yet again.
go through the ANGRY young man posts and, other than his remarks about pissing on himself, you will see this response in his weak arsenal of come backs.

[lsbets]

I have made excuses why I couldn't serve? What the hell are you talking about??.. Please point these out.

Don't make shit up, it's unbecoming, even of you. You're embarrassing yourself yet again.

I'm too old, I have a kid now, blah, blah, blah .........

Would you like me to go back and link to the posts?

In most cases the term is thrown around too freely and doesn't apply. In yours it couldn't be more apt - a chickenhawk.

[sq764]

what pray tell, is a sac-less liar?

Is sac-less (with the hyphen) even a word? Must have learned it from Jim Rome or someone.
Hmm, I am trying to give you a good example of one..

Oooh, oooh, I know - Bill Clinton

[sq764]

I'm too old, I have a kid now, blah, blah, blah .........

Would you like me to go back and link to the posts?

In most cases the term is thrown around too freely and doesn't apply. In yours it couldn't be more apt - a chickenhawk.
Well, you can certainly put whatever words in my mouth you would like, I cannot control that.And you can also pull the 'I have no right to comment on someone who has served', I cannot help that either. I guess 99% of this message board cannot comment either..

I have noticed you commenting on jockey rides, yet, to my knowledge, you have not ridden in a race.. If you have, I stand corrected.

If there was a draft, I would willingly go and support the war, as well as the troops. If you are contruing my finishing high school, going to college, then finding a job, then having a family as avoiding military service, then I am guilty as charged. And if you call choosing to not leave my baby for months at a time at this point in my life as avoiding military service, then you, my friend are a bigger idiot than everyone has pointed out here already..

(Oh and sorry for not being around for Vietnam either.. Blame my mom)

[sq764]

I find it quite humorous that a guy who has never served, has made excuses for why he can't (and made them here on this board), states that Powell is a coward. Even at his retirement age, I have little doubt it would take that coward more than a few seconds to teach you a lesson in respect. You want to call my reply my own form of idiocy, fine - go enlist and then we can see how tough you are. Seriously, you are not qualified to speak of Powell or anyone else who has worn the uniform with anything but respect.
And my father served in the army, so I got a nice lesson in respect in my upbringing. He also taught me that cowards come in all shapes and sizes and to always stand up for what you believe.. Obviously your father let you down in this area.. That is not my problem.

[46zilzal]

they are now listening to Kissinger. In the Final Days, Woodward quotes him: "In Haig's presence, Kissinger referred pointedly to military men as "dumb, stupid animals to be used" as pawns for foreign policy. Kissinger often took up a post outside the doorway to Haig's office and dressed him down in front of the secretaries for alleged acts of incompetence with which Haig was not even remotely involved."

how many more are going to be sacrificed with THIS mentality at the helm? Another one.

[lsbets]

SQ - you constantly talk about how tough we need to be, yet you are not willing to sacrifice anything as we fight our wars. That is a chickenhawk. Than you have the nerve to call Collin Powell, a man who served almost as long as you have been alive (maybe even longer) a coward. Stand up for what you believe? What have you ever stood up for in your life?

[46zilzal]

When I was forming anything close to a political stance, the real nutbars were all on the far left (SDS etc.) You couldn't carry on a conversation about ANYTHING wtihout being told you were an idiot. Strange how the SAME protocol remains, just the polar opposite. Terms like "angry young man" don't come into our vocabulary without a reason.

[sq764]

SQ - you constantly talk about how tough we need to be, yet you are not willing to sacrifice anything as we fight our wars. That is a chickenhawk. Than you have the nerve to call Collin Powell, a man who served almost as long as you have been alive (maybe even longer) a coward. Stand up for what you believe? What have you ever stood up for in your life?
Again, twisting what I say..

I think (and have stated) that Powell is a coward for not standing up for what he believed, then 2 years later saying something different. That is very questionable integrity in my mind. Of course I admire his serving in the military. I even support Kerry's years served in the military. That is just about where it ends with him though.

If you feel the only way to support your country is by joining the army, you're not the brightest cat around..

And you can call me whatever you would like, if it makes you feel more at ease. Anytime you would like to 'teach me respect', just let me know..

[lsbets]

And you can call me whatever you would like, if it makes you feel more at ease. Anytime you would like to 'teach me respect', just let me know..

:lol: :lol: :lol: Aren't you the guy who ran away from the board because Suff was mean to him?

[sq764]

:lol: :lol: :lol: Aren't you the guy who ran away from the board because Suff was mean to him?
Yes, I was terrified of him. PA promised to protect me if I came back.. Big relief.

[sq764]

SQ - you constantly talk about how tough we need to be, yet you are not willing to sacrifice anything as we fight our wars. That is a chickenhawk. Than you have the nerve to call Collin Powell, a man who served almost as long as you have been alive (maybe even longer) a coward. Stand up for what you believe? What have you ever stood up for in your life?
You know LS, I have always respected your posts and you opinions pretty much in every avenue. You obviously have a problem with what I said or my stance on Powell and that is certainly your right to do so. If you want to question me for not going into the military, again that is certainly your choice, but I think you are WAY off base with your assumptions.

And if you want to continue to sling insults, that’s cool too. I am just going to chalk this one up to a disagreement of opinions.. You can interpret it however you would like.

[Indulto]

I'm totally disgusted with Powell, no balls at all. No one can tell me in his gut he knew the intelligence on Iraq was flawed yet he jumped in head first with his UN speech supporting all that was handed to him. Now isn't the time to criticize the war in Iraq.When IS a good time? People are increasingly divided on this issue with more evidence supporting the opposition viewpoint appearing daily. Speaking of discredited ex-Secretaries-of-State, doesn’t Kissinger’s presence and influence bother you?

I also originally saw Powell’s selection as Secretary to be a plus for the Bush administration, and credited Cheney for that decision. In fact, I always had a good impression of Cheney until his sudden secrecy re: energy meetings. I had considered him to be the most convincing Republican spokesman until he decided that he, himself, was the best VP candidate. He lost my respect completely once he started publicly expressing his views on Iraq. It would not surprise me to learn the man has some medical condition affecting his judgment.

I suspect Powell was amazed at Bush’s lack of ability. As a result he was overly-influenced by Cheney, and deceived by him and others until it was too late for him to do anything that wouldn’t appear that he was challenging the authority of the Commander-in Chief. I don’t see that as a lack of courage, but rather a chain-of-command mindset which got him to where he was in the first place. That he would speak his mind now takes guts IMO.

I doubt I would ever support him for elected office, but I hope future administrations will take advantage of his experience, expertise, and integrity.

[shanta]

Powell is a total class act.

Has been that way for years. Worked his way up from nothing with hard work, brains and class.

I wish he would run for the top office.

Powell or Giuliani :)

Rich

[twindouble]

When IS a good time? People are increasingly divided on this issue with more evidence supporting the opposition viewpoint appearing daily. Speaking of discredited ex-Secretaries-of-State, doesn’t Kissinger’s presence and influence bother you?

I also originally saw Powell’s selection as Secretary to be a plus for the Bush administration, and credited Cheney for that decision. In fact, I always had a good impression of Cheney until his sudden secrecy re: energy meetings. I had considered him to be the most convincing Republican spokesman until he decided that he, himself, was the best VP candidate. He lost my respect completely once he started publicly expressing his views on Iraq. It would not surprise me to learn the man has some medical condition affecting his judgment.

I suspect Powell was amazed at Bush’s lack of ability. As a result he was overly-influenced by Cheney, and deceived by him and others until it was too late for him to do anything that wouldn’t appear that he was challenging the authority of the Commander-in Chief. I don’t see that as a lack of courage, but rather a chain-of-command mindset which got him to where he was in the first place. That he would speak his mind now takes guts IMO.

I doubt I would ever support him for elected office, but I hope future administrations will take advantage of his experience, expertise, and integrity.

Like I said before, I voted for Powell and Cheney, not Bush, no way in hell would I vote for Gore.

You made your case for Powell but I think it takes more "guts" to stand for what you think while the shit is flying, not after the fact.

T.D.

[sq764]

Powell is a total class act.

Has been that way for years. Worked his way up from nothing with hard work, brains and class.

I wish he would run for the top office.

Powell or Giuliani :)

Rich
He would have zero shot.. He was on top of the world 3 years ago, then ruined it for good.

[JustRalph]

Once again I hear someone complaining about "Bush's lack of ability"

Indulto, you guys keep talking about this, but the guy keeps on coming out on top. I think he is a lot smarter than most think. I don't agree with half the shit he does anymore, but he sure as hell has made a bunch of people look bad. There are 300 guys in Congress that want his job. None of them have been able to lay a glove on him. When all is said and done, he will be the one with 8 years (if the Dems don't impeach him) in the job that those 300 other guys wanted. He will walk away with a nice retirement and enjoy himself. While these others spin their wheels. As to Colin Powell, he could have never won the Presidency or he would have run. His wife has a lot to do with that. He has always been a disappointment to me. All the way back to the first gulf war.

[Indulto]

Originaly posted by JustRalph
Once again I hear someone complaining about "Bush's lack of ability"

Indulto, you guys keep talking about this, but the guy keeps on coming out on top. I think he is a lot smarter than most think. I don't agree with half the shit he does anymore, but he sure as hell has made a bunch of people look bad. There are 300 guys in Congress that want his job. None of them have been able to lay a glove on him. When all is said and done, he will be the one with 8 years (if the Dems don't impeach him) in the job that those 300 other guys wanted. He will walk away with a nice retirement and enjoy himself. While these others spin their wheels. As to Colin Powell, he could have never won the Presidency or he would have run. His wife has a lot to do with that. He has always been a disappointment to me. All the way back to the first gulf war.JR,
I’ve never said Bush is without intelligence or that the majority of voting Americans he appealed to weren’t either. But you’re a supporter of his and even you say you no longer agree with half of what he does now. What does that say about his ability to lead this country, along with his being despised (not just disagreed with) by his domestic political opposition, and openly disrespected and distrusted by many (not all) foreign leaders?

Perhaps I could have better expressed my speculation that Powell was surprised by the inner workings of the Administration and the depth of support for the objectives of the neocons. New revelations about Rice and Rumsfield appear to confirm that impression.

I agree with you that Powell knew he couldn’t win. Could you elaborate on his wife’s impact on his decision not to run?

Any comparison between Bush and existing members of Congress hardly flatters him, or most of them.

[46zilzal]

The goals of this country is to enhance prosperity and peace.
-White House Conference on Global Literacy, New York, New York, Sep. 18, 2006

what a clown. Opens his mouth and leaves NO DOUBT.

[JustRalph]

[color=black][font=Verdana]I agree with you that Powell knew he couldn’t win. Could you elaborate on his wife’s impact on his decision not to run?

You can look up the "wife problems" powell had. I don't think it would be wise of me to quote them here. But there was much speculation about his wife when he was rumored to run.

[PaceAdvantage]

I think SQ raises an interesting point about Powell, although I don't agree the man is a coward.

The left now embraces Powell, calling him a man of character and integrity when it comes to Iraq because he now publicly disagrees with the President.

Yet, in reality, his character and integrity on THIS ISSUE seems seriously flawed if he indeed stood hand-in-hand with Bush right before the invasion on what he KNEW (or THOUGHT he knew) to be flawed (or worse, false) information.

Somebody please explain why he qualifies as a poster boy despite laying down at such a crucial point in the game?

[PaceAdvantage]

You're embarrassing yourself yet again.

Yet again?

[Indulto]

Originally posted by PaceAdvantage
I think SQ raises an interesting point about Powell, although I don't agree the man is a coward.

The left now embraces Powell, calling him a man of character and integrity when it comes to Iraq because he now publicly disagrees with the President.

Yet, in reality, his character and integrity on THIS ISSUE seems seriously flawed if he indeed stood hand-in-hand with Bush right before the invasion on what he KNEW (or THOUGHT he knew) to be flawed (or worse, false) information.

Somebody please explain why he qualifies as a poster boy despite laying down at such a crucial point in the game?PA,
I don’t regard Powell as a heroic figure, which is what he would have been if he had stood up before the invasion and said it was wrong. IMO he will always be responsible for allowing his personal credibility to be used to deceive the American public and the world, but I’m not certain he KNEW the intelligence information to be false AT THE TIME.

You may still not believe that the invasion of Iraq was a mistake, but Powell obviously now does, and maybe he feels obligated to try and stop the casualties among the American troops that he helped put there.

Perhaps you would prefer that he behave like Speaker Hastert did once he knew the truth about Foley? Or do you believe Powell should have taken the oath of “Omerta?”

I see him as a flawed patriot who is taking it upon himself to allow the truth to come out at great personal and political expense for the good of the country. Better late than never.

Thank you, Secretary Powell. Or should I say, General Powell?

[PaceAdvantage]

....but I’m not certain he KNEW the intelligence information to be false AT THE TIME.


Who DID exactly KNOW the info was FALSE AT THE TIME?

[Indulto]

Who DID exactly KNOW the info was FALSE AT THE TIME?I thought you actually wanted to engage in discussion/debate in addition to trading quips. My bad.

[ljb]

Personally I think Powell is a low class individual. Although lately he seems to be getting a little more class.

[PaceAdvantage]

I thought you actually wanted to engage in discussion/debate in addition to trading quips. My bad.

Your entire reply to me (the first one early this morning) goes right out the window with me because of this silly line of yours. You're not certain he KNEW at the time? No shit. Nobody apparently KNEW at the time the info was false, did they?

If you KNOW of someone who KNEW at the time, please state so here....

[Tom]

I have a majopr problem with Powell - unless he presents some new information obtained since his stint in office, I can only conclude he has serious character flaws. He said, "You break it, you own it." I say, "You push for it, you stay with it."

Seems like now he has cut and run. He should change parties. Maybe grab a page out Lieberman's book...oh wait! - no pages! :eek:

[JustRalph]

Personally I think Powell is a low class individual. Although lately he seems to be getting a little more class.


Low Class individuals don't rise to Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. You are out of line saying this.

[Indulto]

Your entire reply to me (the first one early this morning) goes right out the window with me because of this silly line of yours. You're not certain he KNEW at the time? No shit. Nobody apparently KNEW at the time the info was false, did they?

If you KNOW of someone who KNEW at the time, please state so here....Maybe not, but Powell knew the invasion was a BAD idea and warned Bush about it AND went on record that he warned him.

And whether or not my statement appeared silly to you, it's no sillier than your refusal to acknowledge the foolishness that permeates the White House.

[ljb]

Low Class individuals don't rise to Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. You are out of line saying this.
Thank you for your opinion.

[lsbets]

Maybe not, but Powell knew the invasion was a BAD idea and warned Bush about it AND went on record that he warned him.

And whether or not my statement appeared silly to you, it's no sillier than your refusal to acknowledge the foolishness that permeates the White House.

No, Powell said he warned that if we went in we needed to be ready for the aftermath. The ways in which Powell's words have been misconstrued and misused are amazing. Almost as amazing as classless individuals saying Powell is low class.

[twindouble]

No, Powell said he warned that if we went in we needed to be ready for the aftermath. The ways in which Powell's words have been misconstrued and misused are amazing. Almost as amazing as classless individuals saying Powell is low class.

I agree it's hard to hang your hat on anything that's being said nowadays but if recall right it was confirmed that he told Bush, "if you break it, you own it", that was in reference to invading Iraq. To me that showed weakness on his part, I'm dam happy Bush did away with Saddam and his sick sons. Right now, I'm giving Bush some credit for telling the leaders of Iraq to get their act together and solve their own problems. If they don't know enough to pick up what we gave them I say leave them to their own demise, they are doing a good job of that now anyway. Our attention should be on Iran and Syria, they are causing a good percentage of the problems that exist in Iraq from day one! If there's any hope for Iraq that's where the solution lays and that's a fact.


T.D.

[46zilzal]

from http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/04/powell-stay-the-course/

In a speech at the University of Minnesota yesterday, former Secretary of State Colin Powell blasted the Bush administration’s “stay the course” policy in Iraq:

“Only the Iraqi people can resolve this,” Powell said.

U.S. troops have to stay in Iraq for “some time,” he said. “But there is a limit to the patience of the American people.”

…In Iraq, “staying the course isn’t good enough because a course has to have an end,” Powell said.

The White House is trying to distance themselves from the phrase “stay the course.” But it aptly describes a strategy that has not changed in spite of repeated failures. Moreover, President Bush and top administration officials continue to use it.

[twindouble]

There's no question in my mind, if our leaders during WW2 had the same mantality as Powell and the rest of them, we all would be speaking German today. That's if we measured up as an acceptable race, otherwise you would have been dead meat. Think about what the Muslim fanatics have in store for us.


T.D.

[46zilzal]

There's no question in my mind, if our leaders during WW2 had the same mantality as Powell and the rest of them, we all would be speaking German today. That's if we measured up as an acceptable race, otherwise you would have been dead meat. Think about what the Muslim fanatics have in store for us.




NOT EVEN CLOSE to the same situation. not even close

[twindouble]

NOT EVEN CLOSE to the same situation. not even close

If this isn't war, what the hell is in your mind?


T.D.

[46zilzal]

there was an enemy in one place wearing uniforms,,,,,not some quasi-ideology from rag tag citizen soldiers coming out of the woodwork helter skelter all over the Muslim world.

[twindouble]

there was an enemy in one place wearing uniforms,,,,,not some quasi-ideology from rag tag citizen soldiers coming out of the woodwork helter skelter all over the Muslim world.


So, what are you saying, we should fold up and die?

[Indulto]

No, Powell said he warned that if we went in we needed to be ready for the aftermath. The ways in which Powell's words have been misconstrued and misused are amazing. Almost as amazing as classless individuals saying Powell is low class.lsbets,
This must be what it was like interpreting the prophets. ;)

Would you consider limiting any further debate on what he has to say in his book and/or is quoted in future interviews? Or do YOU place him in the "cut and run" category as well?

[46zilzal]

no go after them WHERE THEY ARE. HINT: it wasn't Iraq until the rutabaga opened Pandora's box and created a jihad poster boy.

Let's see : terror guys all Saudi's and two Egyptians
planners and leaders hiding out in Afgahinstan......

Give you a hint as to where they WERE?

[twindouble]

no go after them WHERE THEY ARE. HINT: it wasn't Iraq until the rutabaga opened Pandora's box and created a jihad poster boy.

Ok, Patton you didn't go into Iraq, where the hell you are going after Afghanistan?

[46zilzal]

one of my favorites: If it were December 7, 1941 and we were attacked by Japan, the rutabaga would probably invade Equador or Venezuela.

[46zilzal]

Ok, Patton you didn't go into Iraq, where the hell you are going after Afghanistan?
no where

[twindouble]

one of my favorites: If it were December 7, 1941 and we were attacked by Japan, the rutabaga would probably invade Equador or Venezuela.

You didn't answer the question.

[46zilzal]

It is really a sad state of affairs how the rutabaga BLEW it. The entire civilized world (even a million marched in sympathy in DOWNTOWN Tehran) were willing to understand this atrocity and to help find those responsible. He and the neoGOONS saw it as an opportunity to hide their real plot for change in Iraq. MORE than a few people figured out the con.

The rutabaga is NOT a Henry Gondorf

[lsbets]

Or do YOU place him in the "cut and run" category as well?

Where the F would you come up with my placing him in the cut and run category? You guys are freaking out there.

[Indulto]

There's no question in my mind, if our leaders during WW2 had the same mantality as Powell and the rest of them, we all would be speaking German today. That's if we measured up as an acceptable race, otherwise you would have been dead meat. Think about what the Muslim fanatics have in store for us.Hey TD,
In case you didn't notice the Governor of California speaks English with a German accent, and the Republican Congress would be happy to change the constitution to allow him to run for President. ;)

My point is that the preceding irony would have been -- and may well be -- incomprehensible to the generation of WWII vets. It's probably fair to say that most Nazi's were fanatics who were Christian just as most Jihadists are Fanatics who are Muslim.

Is it totally incomprehensible to you that one day a truly world-class intellect and planet leader could come from Iran or some other Middle-Eastern Muslim community? I'm no expert on Middle-Eastern history, but it wouldn't surprise me if there were an Anwar Sadaat for every Saddam Hussein.

You and Bush/Cheney may think that having Saddam & Sons out of the way was worth all the Iraqi and American casualties, but the Iraqis never did and most Americans may not either

[twindouble]

Hey TD,
In case you didn't notice the Governor of California speaks English with a German accent, and the Republican Congress would be happy to change the constitution to allow him to run for President. ;)

My point is that the preceding irony would have been -- and may well be -- incomprehensible to the generation of WWII vets. It's probably fair to say that most Nazi's were fanatics who were Christian just as most Jihadists are Fanatics who are Muslim.

Is it totally incomprehensible to you that one day a truly world-class intellect and planet leader could come from Iran or some other Middle-Eastern Muslim community? I'm no expert on Middle-Eastern history, but it wouldn't surprise me if there were an Anwar Sadaat for every Saddam Hussein.

You and Bush/Cheney may think that having Saddam & Sons out of the way was worth all the Iraqi and American casualties, but the Iraqis never did and most Americans may not either

Ok,Ok, it was all a mistake, 911 didn't happen or any other attack on us. Get the hell out, we should have never got involved in Bosnia or anywhere else in the world. Stay the hell home where we belong, the world is only as big as the U.S. anyway. We wasted Billions on the cold war, that was a mistake as well. Screw the drug trade, let flow and the hell with those that steal our secrets just sell it to them. Pirating is a way of life, we can except that as well. Who cares if there's fair trade or not we are doing just fine, it wasn't our ass diving off the twin towers anyway. Anwar Sadaat got assassinated, what do we care. See you at the races. Looking forward to this weekend. :)

T.D.

[Indulto]

Ok,Ok, it was all a mistake, 911 didn't happen or any other attack on us. Get the hell out, we should have never got involved in Bosnia or anywhere else in the world. Stay the hell home where we belong, the world is only as big as the U.S. anyway. We wasted Billions on the cold war, that was a mistake as well. Screw the drug trade, let flow and the hell with those that steal our secrets just sell it to them. Pirating is a way of life, we can except that as well. Who cares if there's fair trade or not we are doing just fine, it wasn't our ass diving off the twin towers anyway. Anwar Sadaat got assassinated, what do we care. See you at the races. Looking forward to this weekend.
T.D.TD,
Hard to end it on that note. I don't expect to convince you and most others here. You and I have -- and will -- continue to agree to disagree, but it's important to me that as someone whose values and opinions I respect, that you at least understand where I'm coming from.

It's not all black or white and that's our problem. Of course we had to respond in Afghanistan, and our reasons for going into Bosnia didn't change after we got there. Maybe the only alternative to legalizing drugs is military action in order to terminate illegal drug trafficking. Surely there'll be no end to the global challenges that we'll have to respond to in the future.

But our actions have to be based on the principles that brought us our power and wealth which WAS collective liberty, individual freedom, respect for others, economic opportunity, and willingness to work hard. If we don't demand that of ourselves both at home and abroad -- and from our allies as well as our enemies -- I believe we are lost. We are not alone on the planet, nor should we want to be. Offensive action must truly be the last resort and a more-than-reasonable effort must always be taken to avoid doing it unilaterally.

Now, where's my DRF, and what the @#$% do I do with this damn soapbox?