world series of poker: Anti climactic?

[JPinMaryland]

The short answer is "yes, it was extremely anticlimactic."

THis was the most uninteresting finish I have seen, but I admit I only watched abuot four or maybe five of these. In this case, GOld had already racked up e.g. $20 million before they got tot he final table and as it got down the last five guys he has like $37 million; cunningham ha like $20 million and the ohter guys hvae e.g.5 million. There is no way they can win unless an exteme amout of luck and of course Gold is playing well.

The highlites they showed on tv, reflect this problem. Its gold drawing flushes and full houes on like every hand. Of course that's not what hpappened in real life, but the only highlite they had left to show was gold winnning ever pot almost.

I wonder if they could not come up with a way that the final table has 9 guys who all strt with the same amount of money. THis would be extremely interesting, what theyshowed last night was extremely uncompetive.

They could have like fields, and when you beat that field and hve all the money you then advance to the next round where you meet the other guys who have all won their field and have the exact amount of money. or you could give them a slight bonus for getting through round.

SOrt of like they do on these handicapping contests wherre you can hit a bomb but you dont get credited with the full amont.

ANyhow...what do YOU think?

[PaceAdvantage]

No need to manipulate things further in an attempt at making every World Series a life and death nail biter.

We all knew who the winner was a couple of weeks before they started televising the thing on TV....how much more anti-climactic can you get?

I found it as entertaining as any other World Series of Poker I've watched. I think they should investigate Gold/Chan. I can't believe the hands this guy was being dealt!!! lol

[sq764]

No need to manipulate things further in an attempt at making every World Series a life and death nail biter.

We all knew who the winner was a couple of weeks before they started televising the thing on TV....how much more anti-climactic can you get?

I found it as entertaining as any other World Series of Poker I've watched. I think they should investigate Gold/Chan. I can't believe the hands this guy was being dealt!!! lol
I thought it was kinda cool that he won. He was incredibly arrogant, but he also mentioned that he was going to use the money to help his father with alzheimer's 'go as comfortably as possible'..

[OTM Al]

I still don't get this thing though I know how popular it is and do have to admit to staring blankly at it when its all that is on when I'm at a bar. Of course if you missed the world series of dominoes they were running a couple months ago, you really missed something...........or not. Dave Chapelle had a pretty good take on it all when he did a parody skit, the world series of dice.

[JPinMaryland]

YEah GOld was weird. He was also breaking the rules as I understand them. You are not allowed to say what you are holding. And he was doing that. Not blatant at first, but then later he was saying "I have two diamonds." ANd then finally at the end, he was showing the guy one of his cards. Suprised no one called him on that but maybe with a big stack they dont want to piss him off.

PA: I dont really get what you are responding to. I am talking about the format the way the contest is played. I know they are showing it on tape delay but that's not what I am objecting to.

[Valuist]

I still don't get this thing though I know how popular it is and do have to admit to staring blankly at it when its all that is on when I'm at a bar. Of course if you missed the world series of dominoes they were running a couple months ago, you really missed something...........or not. Dave Chapelle had a pretty good take on it all when he did a parody skit, the world series of dice.

I agree. Seems about as interesting as watching somebody else eat or comb their hair. Poker is like golf or sex; its best when one is a participant, not on the outside looking in.

[sq764]

the irony of it all is that the guy that put poker into mainstream tv, Chris Moneymaker, is reportedly dead broke..

He won $2 million when he won it all.. Compared to the $12 million hashem won this year

[OTM Al]

I think its like another situation that happened to me a few years ago. I play pool in a league that is part of the national APA organization. When The Hustler was released on DVD a couple years ago, I was very excited to get it because not only is it a great movie, but they were going to include a segment by Steve Mizerack on how the shots in the film were done. Segement was there alright, but it basically just showed him setting up and making the shots with no real insight on how they were done and no good camera angles to show what kind of english etc he was employing to make the shots happen. Its kinda the same thing with the poker. There is no real insight on the thought processes, which is the part which makes the game. It just shows them playing. Its just kinda like a reality series with an odd (and oddly dressed) cast of characters playing a game. I also have to say that even though I play pool, I never watch the coverage of that either, though the commentators do at least try to give some description of how the shots are being made

[sq764]

I think its like another situation that happened to me a few years ago. I play pool in a league that is part of the national APA organization. When The Hustler was released on DVD a couple years ago, I was very excited to get it because not only is it a great movie, but they were going to include a segment by Steve Mizerack on how the shots in the film were done. Segement was there alright, but it basically just showed him setting up and making the shots with no real insight on how they were done and no good camera angles to show what kind of english etc he was employing to make the shots happen. Its kinda the same thing with the poker. There is no real insight on the thought processes, which is the part which makes the game. It just shows them playing. Its just kinda like a reality series with an odd (and oddly dressed) cast of characters playing a game. I also have to say that even though I play pool, I never watch the coverage of that either, though the commentators do at least try to give some description of how the shots are being made
I wouldn't say there is no insight into the thought processes.. These guys are good, very good..

Most people do not realize that a lot of the top players are math geniuses.. They can calculate probabilities and pot odds in a few seconds... It's amazing

[Dan Montilion]

Most people do not realize that a lot of the top players are math geniuses.. They can calculate probabilities and pot odds in a few seconds... It's amazing.

I fell for watching poker on the tube more than I care to admit. Kind of like watching a slow speed Bronco chase. I'm sure there are some super sharp dudes as SQ mentioned but watching sour looking, tired looking folks sitting at a table has grown old for me. And listening to the ESPN announcer scream
"OOHHH ITS A SEVEN" had me considering eating my gun. Strangely though I still find myself peaking at televised poker. Which likely says more about me than the tired, sour folk at the table. Now I have wasted more of my life, pass the Hiram/Beam/Crow please.

[JPinMaryland]

It does have the odd flavor of a reality tv series. For some reason. I guess the way you sort of know these people through the in depth "people" segments. Or "The Nuts" That's it, they show how odd these guys are...

Its not like baseball where you know what hte playcers can do, you know how they hit, how they field, etc. but you really dont know much about their personal lives. Unless they're in trouble, but basically they are all about whats on the field. Not like that in poker.

Im not sure I agree w/ AL on the not finding out about strategy. What more can they say when they are in hte mddle of a pot? It goes by fast. But I think I am learnign some insight by watching it, they mention that Gould like to bet on the flop and then on the river, that's a pattern theyve noticed etc.

SOemthing like that.

The thing about the math geniuses..The one guy who has an impressive degree (I loathe to say he's "smarter") is Binder the physcist from Cal Tech. But Binder made the one bad mistake I thought on the last table> Was when he had finally drawn a straight vs gould. And why did he lay that down? Gould was on a pure bluff, he might have had a full house, but not based on the way he bet. ANd Binder just laid it down.

I thought that was the last chance anyone had of catching Gould. Being behind in chips, and getting hte straight you had to figure that would be Binders one and only shot to win it all.

But as MacEchearn said: "He wants to stay in the gaem for awhile longer." I guesss it made sensee since Binder did finish 3rd adn this was when there was still six players..

[Tee]

JP,

Which hand are you talking about that Binger folded a straight?


The thing about the math geniuses..The one guy who has an impressive degree (I loathe to say he's "smarter") is Binder the physcist from Cal Tech. But Binder made the one bad mistake I thought on the last table> Was when he had finally drawn a straight vs gould. And why did he lay that down? Gould was on a pure bluff, he might have had a full house, but not based on the way he bet. ANd Binder just laid it down.

I thought that was the last chance anyone had of catching Gould. Being behind in chips, and getting hte straight you had to figure that would be Binders one and only shot to win it all.

But as MacEchearn said: "He wants to stay in the gaem for awhile longer." I guesss it made sensee since Binder did finish 3rd adn this was when there was still six players..

[Tee]

I thought it was kinda cool that he won. He was incredibly arrogant, but he also mentioned that he was going to use the money to help his father with alzheimer's 'go as comfortably as possible'..

Just for the record, Jamie Gold's father has ALS, better known as Lou Gehrig's Disease.

[bigmack]

I was ready for J Gold to be a wienerschnitzel - though he acted like a gentlemen and certainly had a heck of a run of cards.

[JPinMaryland]

He did not act like a gentleman he acted like a perfect ass. He was telling people what he had which is definitely against the rules and certainly very annoying. I think I had seen that rule enforced once before, but maybe only once. But this guy was blatant about it, I thought at least some of the players did not like it. Would not be suprised if most/all of them found him annoying.

About the only moment of drama came when they showed Gould calling his father on cell phone to tell him he won. He is sitting there still at the table all alone, with all the lights turned down and $12 million dollars piled up beside him.

COme to think of it, even that was probably staged. I mean they waited till the whole room cleared out, turned out all the lights and left the table full of money just for him to call his dad? Not likely.

[JPinMaryland]

JP,

Which hand are you talking about that Binger folded a straight?


Hand number: 685-09.

[Tee]

Hand number: 685-09.

Now I'm more confused? :)

Where do I find hand 685-09 or perhaps a link?

Perhaps the hand # from this link would help me a bit http://www.cardplayer.com/tournaments/live_updates/3229

[PaceAdvantage]

So, what's the status on the $12 million....did Gold get ANY of the money yet, or has this lawsuit tied up the whole bundle of dough?

[JPinMaryland]

Tee I have no idea. When you asked me what hand it was, I'm like...the hand where he laid down a straight. How can I identify that? It was I think fairly early on in the final telecast. Im pretty sure it was the final table and there were a number of guys left. It was probably before Mr. Lee went out and I think he went out as no. 6. It was like the one hand I saw where someone actually had Gould beaten and Gould's like telling him "I have nothing." Ohter than that. I dont know what to say. That link you posted above what does that do? Maybe I'll have to hit it..

[JPinMaryland]

Tee: look at hand 218, I think that maybe it. He was holding like J/10. I think there is no way to tell on that board because they dont say what he had unless he shows...

[Tee]

I'll have to watch the replays on tv a bit closer & try to catch where Binger folded a str8. :)

[Tee]

Tee: look at hand 218, I think that maybe it. He was holding like J/10. I think there is no way to tell on that board because they dont say what he had unless he shows...

When you first made mention of Binger folding to a Jamie Gold bluff, I immediately thought of hand 218. In that hand, when the river hit there was a possible straight with the cards showing Q,9,4,A,8. After Gold made the big bet of $1.2 million Binger convinced himself that Gold was holding J,10 - hitting a "gutshot' straight. Binger folded with the best hand, a pair of nines thinking that Gold had the str8.

I just couldn't remember or see at card player where Binger had made a straight & the board held the possibility of Jamie Gold having a full house when the two were hooked up in a hand.

[Tee]

So, what's the status on the $12 million....did Gold get ANY of the money yet, or has this lawsuit tied up the whole bundle of dough?

Last I heard was half the dough was still being held.

[JPinMaryland]

maybe that was it. I seem to recall the J high nothing hand, and the 1.2 million so maybe that was it...I really thought he had laid down something good. Its hard to keep track when they are showin you the hands so you know what they should do..

[chickenhead]

that was the hand where Gold showed his J while Binger was deciding.

[JPinMaryland]

He did lay down a straight! It was right after Leif Force was eliminated to go out in 11th place. The flop showed 3 queens and Binger had like K/J. Then he hit the straight on the river. Gold went all in and Binger I guess was convinced that he had a full house. Binger showed the table his straight and Gold pretended he had a full house and said that was a bad time to get a straight.

Binger at this pt. (before the hand) had 3.2 million and was in last place. Gold had like 27 million. So Binger could have doubled up to 6.4 million...

[Tee]

I found the hand at CardPlayer, missed it on the replays this evening. Imho Binger made the mistake of not betting after the flop to see where he was in the hand & a bigger mistake by not betting the turn with the open ended draw. He gave away his position on the river by checking, thus letting the door wide open for Jamie Gold to take the pot away from him.

Quick edit - Binger was the initial raiser to boot!! Not following thru after the flop etc did him no favors.

I'd be very interested to know what Gold was holding?


Wed Aug 09 01:08:00 PDT 2006
Gold Takes a Pot Off Binger
Michael Binger raises to $450,000. Jamie Gold calls in the cut-off. The flop comes Q-spade, Q-diamond, Q-club. Both players check. The turn is the 9-club. Both players check. The river is the 8-diamond. Binger checks and Gold moves all-in. Binger folds and Gold takes the pot.

[JPinMaryland]

Tee: How did you figure out that was the hand? I mean just from reading it, it does not say what Binger had...


I am not sure Binger made a mistake in not betting earlier.If he was trying to trap Jamie he was in position to do so,all he had to do was to call. yes?

If he had thought Jamie had hit the full house on the flop, then he could have just folded right then. So...it could have been a case of he was thinking one thing early in the hand and then another later. Like he didnt think Gold hit the full house and he wanted to see if he would hit the straight so he checked. THen later when Gold bet, he figured he did hit the full house. Odd.

[JPinMaryland]

Another interesting moment was when Friedman and Liscardi went at it over whether he had ante'd into the pot. That was hilarious did you see that? The dealer claimed someone did not ante the full amount of the big blind, so there were two ante's of the same amount. Liscardi was like I ante'd and this other guy doesnt say anything. So they figured it was the other guy who promptly paid the rest...

Then Friedman gets in on the act telling Liscardi "I dont trust you sir." And starts claiming he thinks Liscardi did not put in. THe other guy never said anything at all. Like you would think he would be mad if he had to put in twice but no, he doesnt say anything. They finally got video tape to show that it was the other guy not Liscardi.

This goes on and on. Then Liscardi bluffs Friedman out of a pot, and Friedman follows by bluffing him out of two pots in a row.

I was wondering why he did it.Was he out to mess with Liscardi because he was one of the four pros left? or was it just a case of having played along time your nerves just go funny.

[Tee]

Tee: How did you figure out that was the hand? I mean just from reading it, it does not say what Binger had...


I am not sure Binger made a mistake in not betting earlier.If he was trying to trap Jamie he was in position to do so,all he had to do was to call. yes?

If he had thought Jamie had hit the full house on the flop, then he could have just folded right then. So...it could have been a case of he was thinking one thing early in the hand and then another later. Like he didnt think Gold hit the full house and he wanted to see if he would hit the straight so he checked. THen later when Gold bet, he figured he did hit the full house. Odd.

Just going by what u said earlier that he had 10/J. What was he trying to trap Jamie with after the flop, he just had J high? Binger raised before the flop, if he would have continued betting after the flop he could have sold Jamie on the fact that he had a pair in the hole & hit the boat on the flop. Now if Binger runs into the case Queen - so be it, that's just plain bad luck. By checking 3 times Binger showed weakness & enabled Gold to steal the pot from him. Gold showed the same weakness by checking the flop and the turn, Binger obviously read this as Jamie trapping him with a lucky boat & laid the best hand down.

Jamie Gold stole the pot with 4-5.

[Pace Cap'n]

I was wondering why he did it.Was he out to mess with Liscardi because he was one of the four pros left? or was it just a case of having played along time your nerves just go funny.

He is just kind of a weird dude. Prahlad Friedman is arguably the best known player on the internet (Spirit Rock, Mahatma) and this is certainly not the first time for such an accusation from him. No motives have surfaced yet for his behavior.

[superfecta]

I wouldn't say there is no insight into the thought processes.. These guys are good, very good..

Most people do not realize that a lot of the top players are math geniuses.. They can calculate probabilities and pot odds in a few seconds... It's amazingIm not so sure about that,I know they can figure odds but i have a problem with how they apply them in certain situations.What they do have have is gamble in them,willing to go broke and ego.But that can be a problem too.They also can bluff off chips trying to intimidate an opponent or over petty jealousies.Where it is evident to me is those who berate another player for making a "bad"play that beats them.Who wants to make a bet hoping it loses?

[superfecta]

He is just kind of a weird dude. Prahlad Friedman is arguably the best known player on the internet (Spirit Rock, Mahatma) and this is certainly not the first time for such an accusation from him. No motives have surfaced yet for his behavior.
He is a good reader of hands.I was really impressed last year when he was up against Jesus Ferguson and caught on that he was probably up against quad aces.But since he had a full house he called anyway.I think he was trying to rattle the fatman on the ante escapade and it worked a little bit.

[superfecta]

Did anyone catch the bad fold Wasicka made when there was three players left,Wasicka,Gold and Binger?Binger goes all in with about 7 mil with high pair,Gold goes all in with a inside straight draw ,and Wasicka has a open end straight draw,a flush draw and a straight flush draw with two cards to come and folds.If he goes all in there, and wins he comes real close to chip leader.Gold is goading him to call and he wimps out.Worse that happens is he finishes 3rd.he has more chips than Binger,and is favored to make a hand by the river.And he would have won the hand with a flush.
Gold is not that great a player,he was catching all kinds of outs and was trying to run over the table .The givaway that he was a fluke is how he kept trying to get the other players to agree he was playing great.A great player doesnt need constant reassurance like a little kid.

[JPinMaryland]

Yeah the whole thing is anticlimactic the way they run it. Almost anyone can win when they hold a 4:1 chip lead or whatever the hell it was. ANd it shoudnt have to end like that. They should get to the final tablewith everyoe holding the same or about the same number of chips.

So it doesnt feel like a world series, it should feel like the two best guys going head to head in an interesting match.

The last good final showdown I saw was Farha vs Moneymaker. Farha was actually a little ahead in chips but then blew it on that bluff that Moneymaker threw him. I thought Moneymaker gave the bluff away when he turned his head. He said "Ill turn my head...."

Meaning I guess: "Whem I turn my head its a tell"

Fahra asks him "What?"

ANd MOneymaker says: " Ill turn my head and you can show your card.


Or something like that. It made no sense unless seen in the context of what he said before