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JustRalph

09-26-2006, 06:17 PM

http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2487004&page=1

Cop Killing Sparks Immigration Debate
Police Chief Blames Federal Government for Officer's Death

~snippet~
Sept. 25, 2006 — The shooting of a Houston police officer has sparked a new battle over immigration.

Juan Leonardo Quintero, an illegal immigrant, has been charged with killing a Houston police officer last week after a routine traffic stop.

Police Chief Harold Hurtt blamed the federal government for failing to secure U.S. borders.

Quintero allegedly shot Officer Rodney Johnson four times in the head while in handcuffs in the back seat of his patrol car.

Johnson arrested Quintero during a routine traffic stop for speeding but apparently missed the suspect's gun in a pat-down search.

Following the shooting, a video showed Houston police officers pulling open the back doors of Johnson's patrol car and yanking the suspect out of the back seat.

"It's very easy to make a mistake. I am not saying a mistake was made," one Houston police officer said. "Unfortunately, we are in the business where a mistake can kill you."

The suspect should not have been in the United States.

Quintero was deported in 2004 after a conviction for indecency with a child.

~snippet~

more at the link

bigmack

09-26-2006, 06:24 PM

In Los Angeles, 95% of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens.
Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens

Here's a few others that became lifeless by illegals:
http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/text/crimevictims.html

46zilzal

09-26-2006, 06:31 PM

Lou Dobbs will be "off and running."

GaryG

09-26-2006, 07:28 PM

Kinky Friedman says if he is elected gov of TX he will put 10,000 troops on the border. He is also in fanor of school prayer and the Ten Commandments being displayed. I love the kinkster to death and wish him well.

JustRalph

01-03-2007, 07:06 AM

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/news/local/16359133.htm

Cobb County Deputy dies in car wreck this morning. Illegal aliens arrested after fleeing scene

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53586

2 arrested in hit-run crash that killed Cobb deputy

By TY TAGAMI
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 12/31/06

A Cobb County sheriff’s deputy was killed in a hit-and-run wreck while driving to work early Sunday morning.

Police later arrested two men, charging one with felony vehicular homicide and the other with falsely telling police that the car they were in had been stolen.

Deputy Loren Lilly, 41, was headed south on Powder Springs Road near Baltimore Place about 5:40 a.m. when his green Honda Civic collided with another car that had veered from its lane, Marietta police said.

Lilly’s car overturned several times, and he was killed at the scene, said Officer Casey Camp.

The two men in the second car, a white Ford Taurus, ran away before police arrived.

Both men were later arrested.

Along with a vehicular homicide charge, the driver, Joel Camacho Perea, 27, of Marietta faces charges of hit and run, failure to maintain lane and driving without a license.

The passenger, Maurilio Herrera, 23, was charged with a misdemeanor count of falsely reporting a crime to police, Camp said.

Lilly, of Marietta, had worked for the sheriff’s department since 1989 and was assigned to the jail division.

Cobb Sheriff Neil Warren said in a news release that it was a “tragic accident,” and he described Lilly as a “fine deputy.”

Camp said that the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency has placed a hold on the two men, who were being held Sunday night at Cobb County Jail.

kenwoodallpromos

01-03-2007, 01:47 PM

It is not an immigration debate. It is a criminal debate.

Tom

01-03-2007, 08:46 PM

Land mines.
More friggin land mines that you could shake a stick at.

boxcar

01-03-2007, 09:18 PM

It is not an immigration debate. It is a criminal debate.

Kinda putting the cart before the horsey, ain't ya? If these illegals weren't here, all these people would probably be amongst the lving today. It's very much an illegal immigration issue because they have no legal right to be here in the first place.

Boxcar

Snag

01-03-2007, 11:08 PM

Kinda putting the cart before the horsey, ain't ya? If these illegals weren't here, all these people would probably be amongst the lving today. It's very much an illegal immigration issue because they have no legal right to be here in the first place.
Boxcar

Also, Mexico does have a death penalty so they fight to stop any of their citizens from getting the death penalty here. They have not always been sucessful but it costs you and me alot more money while they go through their appeals.

JustRalph

01-04-2007, 12:35 AM

Tom, glad you have joined my call for Land Mines. Solves the whole damn issue. Mine the area and then start the buses home.

Snag

01-04-2007, 01:15 AM

Also, Mexico does have a death penalty so they fight to stop any of their citizens from getting the death penalty here. They have not always been sucessful but it costs you and me alot more money while they go through their appeals.

Opps, I meant to say that Mexico "does not have the death penalty". I guess I should read my posts first.

Bala

01-04-2007, 01:37 AM

Why does Mexico place its army on their southern border but America refuses the same action?

Why does America continually allow illicit street drugs to pour over the border? Drugs which has been proven to fund the operations of narco terrorists throughout central and south America.

Why are both parties impotent to even discuss immigration outside of cheap labor?

Why did Bush call the Minuteman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Minuteman_Project_Inc.) vigilantes?

All rhetorical questions. We desperately need a viable third party!!

____________________________________
In the face of total disaster the only appropriate response is utter defiance.

kenwoodallpromos

01-04-2007, 04:34 AM

Kinda putting the cart before the horsey, ain't ya? If these illegals weren't here, all these people would probably be amongst the lving today. It's very much an illegal immigration issue because they have no legal right to be here in the first place.

Boxcar
_________
Immigration is not the issue- ILLEGAL immigration is not immigration, it is an ILLEGAL act, making it a criminal issue. You are exactly correct!
As long as people including the media are allowed to call it by a legal name it will be an unsolved problem.

Hosshead

01-04-2007, 10:33 AM

boxcar

01-04-2007, 01:48 PM

_________
Immigration is not the issue- ILLEGAL immigration is not immigration, it is an ILLEGAL act, making it a criminal issue. You are exactly correct!
As long as people including the media are allowed to call it by a legal name it will be an unsolved problem.

As odd as this may sound, illegal immigration (and, yes, there is such a thing) is only the tip of the iceberg in terms of our immigration woes. Just take a look at this video to see what the Party of Evil and the Party of Stupid have been doing to our nation with their immigration policies. It's sickening!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4094926727128068265&hl=en

Boxcar

BIG RED

01-04-2007, 03:07 PM

Thx for the link BC, not once did he mention 'illegal', which is your point. Watched it all.

boxcar

01-04-2007, 06:31 PM

Thx for the link BC, not once did he mention 'illegal', which is your point. Watched it all.

I thought the context of my post made that abundantly clear, i.e. the immigration policies set by our lawmakers -- as in lawful immigration policies.

And, obviously, you missed the major thrust to the arguments presented in that video, i.e. Legal Immigration is Out of Control thanks to the very ill-conceived immigration laws that have been on the books now for quite some time.

Boxcar

BIG RED

01-04-2007, 07:23 PM

I'm agreeing with you boxcar! "...which is your point". Immigration is out of control! I didn't miss anything. Still, thx for the clip, I passed it along :kiss:

skate

01-04-2007, 07:27 PM

so ok ok, what everyone is saying is right on.

do you think that these girls are going to "digest" any direction to be taken what-so-ever concerning 'illegals'?

most are so stuck on "finance' problems, when none exist, to be capable of understanding "what turn to take'.

we have the richest country in the world and growing richer by the minute and these girls stand shaken in their boots.
so these same people are gonna what...? not attempting to be rude, but gees...

the problems (illegals) have been here for quite some time, as your movie shows.

me, :lol: , ill take in the view...

JustRalph

01-05-2007, 08:51 PM

http://www.avpress.com/n/05/0105_s1.hts

Council bans stopping at Four Points
Mayor: It's about safety, not immigration
This story appeared in the Antelope Valley Press on Friday, January 5, 2007.
By BOB WILSON
Valley Press Staff Writer

PALMDALE - The City Council banned vehicles from stopping near the Four Points intersection, which has been a popular gathering spot for day laborers looking for work and in recent months has become the scene of protests against illegal immigration.
The reason given by City Hall staff for banning vehicle stops in the area was the improvement of safety along the city's arterial roadways.

With Councilman Steve Knight absent and without discussion, the council voted 4-0 Wednesday night to prohibit motorists from stopping on:

Pearblossom Highway between 47th Street East and Avenue T;

Fort Tejon Road from 47th Street East to Pearblossom Highway;

Avenue T from Pearblossom Highway to 62nd Street East; and

State Route 138 from Avenue T to Cheseboro Road.

City traffic officers looked at all four locations "and determined that, due to current improvements and resident concerns, it would be in the best interests of the city to prohibit stopping at this time," a staff report to the council showed.

Interviewed before the meeting, Mayor Jim Ledford said the proposal was meant "to address the problem of people stopping, whether it's to hire somebody or do something else." Local government's authority in this case involves public safety, not immigration law, the mayor said.

more at the link

highnote

01-06-2007, 05:48 AM

How many fronts can we fight at one time?

We're fighting in the middle east. We're fighting for the containment of communism with Russia, Cuba, China, N.Korea. And we're fighting to protect our borders.

Maybe it's time to pull back the reins and do some fighting here at home.

Tom

01-06-2007, 11:27 AM

Land mines.
Work cheap, work long hours.
Never take vactaion.
Land mines.
The next big thing.

JustRalph

02-28-2007, 01:30 AM

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=361183&postcount=23

samyn on the green

03-01-2007, 02:01 AM

The Illegal immigration issue in the US is a class issue. The upper class is hell bent on breaking the working class in the USA and determined to lower wages. It is nothing new and something that has been happening for many century's. The noticeable difference now is that the cheap labor is from Asia or Central/South America and not Africa/Ireland/Italy.

After WWII the quality of life/cost of labor rose substantially in the USA. this increased the cost of production and business substantially. Something had to be done so the plan for the the powers that be, is too break the back of the working class. Too much wealth was lingering at the bottom of the food chain and the elite were determined to bring that wealth back to the top of the food chain. That is why they keep letting cheap illegal labor flow in.

Illegal immigration is all about darkening the American working class, taking away the unions, reducing wages and mixing the races. After time you are left with a working class nation that is powerless and fighting among themselves over petty racial disputes. It is a divide and concur strategy. It is a long term plan to create a mutt worker race with no historic culture that can be controlled and exploited under the guise of diversity. If you are expecting some government agency to step in it is not going to happen. Both parties who if you haven't noticed are the same party. The government is going to allow the plan to move forward if not take steps to accelerate the process.

highnote

03-01-2007, 02:35 AM

Illegal immigration is all about darkening the American working class, taking away the unions, reducing wages and mixing the races. After time you are left with a working class nation that is powerless and fighting among themselves over petty racial disputes. It is a divide and concur strategy. It is a long term plan to create a mutt worker race with no historic culture that can be controlled and exploited under the guise of diversity.

I think the term mutt is silly. In America, it's not who your family is, it's who you are as a person.

Why do you call it a darkening of the American working class? Maybe it's a lightening of some American working class minorities?

How does your theory explain Jeb Bush marrying an Hispanic woman? Was his plan to produce dark American mutt kids who will earn low wages and tend toward the American working class?

I may be a mutt, but I can still trace all sides of my family back to various parts of Europe. Mutt that I am, I have a great, great, great, great grandfather who was in the American Revolution.

No historic culture? I don't think so. I think it's great to be an American.

JustRalph

03-01-2007, 04:31 PM

Tom

03-01-2007, 09:36 PM

highnote

03-01-2007, 09:44 PM

That pretty much is the best post I ever read on the topic.
Now, the pols are even trying to rename "illegal aliens" to "undocumented colleauges!"
What BS!

There is a massive plan in motion to destroy the middle class and disolve the USA - busniness and corrupt government has conspsired to steal the unioin
from us. Bush is one of the ringleaders.
Abondon all hope of any gov help. And get a gun.

Dear Documented Colleagues,

Thomas Jefferson believed that revoltion was good every once in awhile. Throw the bums out -- shake things up a bit. Maybe it's time?

Of course, while we're in the middle of the revolution who is going to watch the borders? Then again, who is watching them now?

betchatoo

03-02-2007, 08:12 AM

That pretty much is the best post I ever read on the topic.
Now, the pols are even trying to rename "illegal aliens" to "undocumented colleauges!"
What BS!

There is a massive plan in motion to destroy the middle class and disolve the USA - busniness and corrupt government has conspsired to steal the unioin
from us. Bush is one of the ringleaders.
Abondon all hope of any gov help. And get a gun.
That's why, in spite of my strong liberal leanings, I am an advocate of the 2nd amendment.

BlueShoe

03-02-2007, 11:04 PM

The game plan is to crush and make subserviant the working and middle classes of the USA by applying pressure from above (ever increasing taxation,erosion of freedoms by more repressive laws,elimination of US soverignty,debasing the currency,etc.),and below (diversity,multiculturalism,illegal immigration,decreased moral values and ethics,erosion of the family,and so on).Why do you think that there is such a frantic push to impose "gun control"?Answer;an armed and aroused citizenry will prevent all of the above to prevail,and therefore must be implemented.A few of you guys can turn in your guns if you wish,but Im keeping mine;in fact Im going to get more,along with plenty of ammo.

Tom

03-03-2007, 10:44 AM

The global economy has shown business and government just how much less complicated the rest of the workd is. Americans are high maintenacne. We demand pay, benefits, vacations, rights, roads, freeodm! How inconvenient!
When my former company closed my plant down a year ago, they moved to Canada and Mexico. MY replacement at the Mexican plant got a salary a third of mine. The workers got next to nothing for pay and a hot lunch.
Tough to compete with that.

Nothing would make American businesses happier than the dissolution of America. It is just not cost effective.

highnote

03-03-2007, 12:00 PM

Nothing would make American businesses happier than the dissolution of America. It is just not cost effective.

Maybe U.S. racing can be outsourced?

Everything is simulcasting anyway.
Fewer and fewer people are going to the racetrack.
We can just bet on foreign races.

Eventually, when the good paying jobs go overseas and new businesses form overseas the newly rich individuals and companies will see their labor costs start to rise.

They will then find that it is cheaper to buy land and hire labor in the U.S. and will start investing here. This will cut their distribution costs.

They can start lobbying our politicians to get laws that are favorable for their businesses -- like tax incentives and various exemptions that an established U.S. based business can't get.

We will all be working for some foreign entity doing the same jobs that we used to do for our U.S. owned company.

Tom

03-03-2007, 12:20 PM

Oh no - there are jobs we will not do.
Bush told me so. :bang:

highnote

03-03-2007, 12:53 PM

Oh no - there are jobs we will not do.
Bush told me so. :bang:

Which ones?

If I had to, I could do just about any job.

However, there is one job I wouldn't want, but I know I could do it a lot better than him. :D

JustRalph

03-10-2007, 04:51 AM

The Front Lines against illegal immigration and the aclu

click on the link below and then "mayor Lou"

http://www.foxnews.com/video2/launchPage.html?030907/030907_oreilly_barletta&Mayor%20Lou%20Barletta&OReilly_Factor&Town%27s%20top%20official%20is%20under%20fire%20af ter%20proposing%20illegal%20immigration%20law&Politics&-1&Mayor%20Lou%20Barletta&Video%20Launch%20Page&News

www.smalltowndefenders.com

Racer98

03-10-2007, 06:52 PM

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070215/NEWS01/702150349/1056/COL02

This recieved tons of grief from the media.

So we're welcoming in Iraqi refugees and kicking out Mexican workers? We're hurting our economy right there. We're lessening work and adding expense.

Oh, and I don't read or watch Fox News. Sorry.

Tom

03-10-2007, 06:57 PM

Maybe you should start - you might get some facts instead the drivel you are believing now.

Do you have math issues, too?

You don't see a difference bettween 7,000 KNOWN Iraqi, LEGAL immigrants and over 20 million illegal aliens?

Racer98

03-10-2007, 07:06 PM

Hey, if they want jobs, they should go to China and Taiwan. There aren't any jobs here.

Tom

03-10-2007, 08:35 PM

Man, you better start watching Fox....you don't have a clue.

Racer98

03-10-2007, 10:51 PM

Fox isn't news, it's propaganda. O'Reiley, for starters.

The Malmedy fiasco:

O'Reily was attempting to justify the Abu-Grahib torture, and he talked of some American Soliders killing 50 defenseless Germans outside of the town of Malmedy. In fact, the exact opposite had happened. 50 defenselless AMERICAN soliders had been gunned down by the Germans. He acknowledged his mistake, and all was forgotten.

2 Weeks later, he made the exact same mistake, telling of 50 Germans killed by Americans in Malmedy. After being informed of his mistake, O'Reily said "I meant Normandy." In fact, the Fox News website changed the transcript of his newscast from Malmedy to Normandy.

This seems a little fishy to me. Scratch that, it sounds a LOT fishy. I will not watch Fox News for the above reasons and more.

MSNBC has a station, too, and they target news, not ratings.

Tom

03-10-2007, 10:53 PM

Hey, Genius.
Here's a news flash for you....O'Reilly is a talk show, not a news show.
No wonder you are so confused.

JustRalph

03-10-2007, 11:07 PM

MSNBC has a station, too, and they target news, not ratings.

is "news" a synonym for "Failure" it must be at MSNBC

46zilzal

03-10-2007, 11:11 PM

Racer don't be concerned: these posters are the "reactionaries" without a clue.

Show Me the Wire

03-11-2007, 01:07 AM

Racer don't be concerned: these posters are the "reactionaries" without a clue.

Unlike the "idiot" liberal posters that reside here. :lol:

Racer98

03-11-2007, 11:19 AM

Hey, Genius.
Here's a news flash for you....O'Reilly is a talk show, not a news show.
No wonder you are so confused.

But he's still wrong. Very wrong.

And no, 46, I don't get too worked up about it. I live in a rather shallow neigbhorhood in the middle of nowhere in Ohio. I'm used to it.

JustRalph

04-05-2007, 12:39 AM

And the Beat goes on.............

http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=6307948

Loved ones remember teens killed in crash

snip
Tessa Tranchant's mother and Allison Kunhardt's father stand under a full moon in a circle of hundreds of young people. Colette Tranchant tells the crowd, "Tessa and Allie died together. They went to heaven together." The two girls were best friends, like sisters.

At Mount Trashmore in Virginia Beach, tears create streams on teenagers faces. Every few feet across the grass dotted by candlelight, you can see people trembling. Occasionally, you can hear through the quiet of the night, boys and girls weeping. They grieve the loss of two young women, killed Friday in a suspected "driving under the influence" crash. Tessa's Kellam High School classmates and friends wrote in a large memory book.
snip

snip

Suspect in accident that killed two teens convicted of DUI two months ago

An illegal alien charged in connection with an acdcident that claimed the lives of two teenage girls was convicted of DUI two months ago in Chesapeake.

The accident occurred late Friday night when Alfredo Ramos crashed into the back of a vehicle at a red light. The rear-ending killed teenagers Allison Kuhnhardt and Tessa Tranchant.

10 On Your Side has learned that 22-year-old Alfredo Ramos was convicted in February on DUI charges from November 13, 2006.

The arresting officer commented in his report that Ramos "almost ran him down".

He was given a 90 day suspended sentence, fined $250, had his drivers' license suspended, and he ordered to participate in ASAP, an alcohol awareness program.

Court documents also revealed that Ramos didn' t actually have a valid driver's license (he was caught with a fake one), had paid a Florida company $200 dollars for a "Mexican ID", and he blew a .14 BAC - almost twice the legal limit.

Also, 10 On Your Side has learned that law-enforcement officials in Chesapeake never informed Immigration and Customs Enforcement about Ramos' residence status in the U.S. This contrasts with Virginia Beach, whose authorities notified ICE immediately after Ramos was arrested.
snip

more at the link

bigmack

04-05-2007, 06:31 PM

Next time you find yourself watching the delightful holiday film A Christmas Story
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B0000AYJUW.01._AA240_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Think about the director Bob Clark who was driving his mid sized Infinity on PCH with his 22 year old son in Malibu yesterday when a 2007 Yukon travelling southbound in the northbound lane slammed into them, killing them both and leaving the other driver in fair condition who was booked on DUI/vehicular manslaughter charges who was 24 years old and in this country illegally from Mexico.

Keep in mind, they're just good people looking for a fair wage.

JustRalph

04-05-2007, 10:15 PM

I saw this one too Mack. Good post.

First of all.........07 Yukons cost about 50k............where the hell did this guy get that kind of money? Probably a loan from Bank of America.

chickenhead

04-05-2007, 10:16 PM

probably selling yayo

bigmack

04-10-2007, 02:42 PM

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tLPuGuaZTx8

Secretariat

04-10-2007, 02:50 PM

Sad news. Wait till we have all those unregulated truckers from Mexico freely traveling our roads. This stuff can be prevented now, but won't be because it hurts trade. God bless globalization.

Tom

04-10-2007, 07:11 PM

Thanks you both parties.....who are both bought and paid for.
First bi-partisan act in a long time - the selling out of Americans.
Why did they stiop Flight 93??????:mad:

JustRalph

07-22-2007, 07:13 PM

http://tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070720/NEWS03/70720020

Friday, 07/20/07

Mandolin maker's killer had been deported 14 times
Mexican citizen receives 25 year prison sentence, will be eligible for parole in 7-1/2 years

By SHEILA BURKE
Staff Writer

An illegal immigrant convicted in a fatal drunk driving wreck in Nashville had been deported from the U.S. three times and allowed to leave voluntarily on eleven other occasions before the accident that claimed the life of a local guitar maker.

The revelation came during testimony by a federal agent at a sentencing hearing today for Julio Villasana. It was not immediately clear how he managed to re-enter the U.S.

More at the link!

Tom

07-22-2007, 07:24 PM

It was not immediately clear how he managed to re-enter the U.S.

Of course it is obviously the conspiracy between Bush and Mexico to allow illegals to enter freely. The same collusion that has but Ramos and Cepean in jail for doing their jobs and gave a green card to the repeat drug dealer who they tried to arrest. The evidence of his repeat drug smiggling has been classified by Homeland Security- conveniently. The judge, a Bush appointee, Johnny Sutton, a Bush stooge.....and Bush - the mastermind of the largest criminal organiztion on the country.

The pathetic part about it is it so blatant that I am sure Bush could be impeached on charges of collusion and obstruction of justice ( and treason) if the dems had anyone with a brain in thier numbers. but they are so set on vengence, they cannot see the obvious. Or is that many of thier leaders - Kennedy??? - are also on the take in this - sort of leutenants of the Bush Godfather?

RXB

07-22-2007, 08:40 PM

Just in case you thought this unseemly phenomenon was just an American thing:

http://www.canada.com/reginaleaderpost/news/story.html?id=e6060c40-22bc-43ca-91c3-e83945113ca3

Of course, in this case the guy had entered the country legally. That's how we do things in Canada. Rather than having huge numbers of illegal immigrants-- or maybe I should say "unofficial immigrants" since it's unclear how committed or not your government is to stopping them-- in Canada we let everyone in legally. Twice as many legal immigrants on a per capita basis than the US and Australia, who are roughly tied for 2nd.

The Progressive Conservatives destroyed our previous immigration policy, which was probably the best in the world, so that their business buddies could reap the rewards of cheap labour. The Liberals continued it for the same reason and also because most of the immigrants vote Liberal. The left-wing NDP, which you'd think would be against this practice since it hurts working class people the most, wants to INCREASE immigration even further because its leaders are more concerned about "tolerance" and "diversity" than they are about the actual well-being of Canadian citizens.

So there it is. Not one major party across the political spectrum is against this ridiculous practice. If you speak out against it, they brand you a "racist." Many legitimate economists have spoken out against high immigration. Of course, when there was an "immigration review panel" a few years ago, none of them were invited to speak. Only people in favour of increasing immigration to even higher levels got official speaking time.

JustRalph

07-22-2007, 09:22 PM

That was a domestic abuse case that you cited. I get your point, but I think that is a completely different issue. The victim in that case had chosen a relationship with the individual.

The cases that populate this thread are random encounters with individuals who should not be in the U.S. I think there is a difference..........not that your points aren't valid.........just different..........

JustRalph

07-29-2007, 01:42 AM

This is why the problem is out of control...............no better example. One week and he is back..............

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/hourlyupdate/193533.php

Border agents arrest illegal entrant convicted in Colorado of sexual assault
Arizona Daily Star
Tucson, Arizona | Published: 07.26.2007
Border Patrol agents arrested a 31-year-old illegal entrant from Mexico late Wednesday night who was convicted of sexual assault in Colorado and had been deported last week in Douglas.

~more at the link~

JustRalph

09-11-2007, 11:29 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1A4bPF9W1A

La Raza rally, at UCLA

at about 4:15 into the clip he tells us who the enemy really is............

Guess what, it's "Capitalism"

o0xst!

09-12-2007, 12:42 AM

If we were all Iraqi's we'd be posting things like this about the troops....

Secretariat

09-12-2007, 01:00 AM

JustRalph

09-12-2007, 02:36 PM

http://www.thedailytimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070912/NEWS/70912001

Immigrant: Judge told me to go home

Anna Calixto went to court Friday seeking an order of protection from her husband, Fernando Calixto. Instead, she was told to go back to her native country of Nicaragua by Blount County Circuit Court Judge W. Dale Young, according to witnesses.
Anna Calixto and witnesses said the judge asked Fernando Calixto — who came to the United States from Mexico — if he was in the United States legally. The judge told him if he wasn’t here legally, he had “no rights in court.”
The judge then asked the same question of Anna Calixto.
“When the judge asked if I was here legally,” Anna Calixto said, “I told him I have my temporary worker permit and I have the documentation showing it from the immigration service.
“The judge shrugged his shoulders like he didn’t care — then he told me to go back to Nicaragua.
“I told him I have two children and asked what I was supposed to do about my children. The judge said there were Americans here in this country who could take care of my children.”

~more at the link~

46zilzal

09-12-2007, 03:00 PM

more xenophobia

an oft recurring them about "them" and "us"

chickenhead

09-12-2007, 03:20 PM

Complaining about legal residents of a certain race might be xenophobic. But when the distinction over whether one is happy about "them" being here is made not on the distinction of race, but on legal status, xenophobia is a terribly innacurate description.

Unless you're just interested in calling people names.

Tom

09-12-2007, 04:01 PM

more xenophobia

an oft recurring them about "them" and "us"

Here's the deal - US is legal and US pays the bills here.
Them has their own home, and should stay there until they legally become an US. Like millions have done before. WE always welcome new USes.

The dodge to try to further the lie that this is somehow racist is typical of YOUs. You cannot challenge the facts, so you blow smoke.

NoDayJob

09-12-2007, 04:11 PM

so you blow smoke.

If that smoke is from weed, blow some in this direction. :cool:

IBCNU

09-12-2007, 11:48 PM

It is not an immigration debate. It is a criminal debate.

SO DEPORT THESE "CRIMINALS" WHO ARE HERE "ILLEGALLY"!

JustRalph

09-13-2007, 03:50 AM

SO DEPORT THESE "CRIMINALS" WHO ARE HERE "ILLEGALLY"!

There is a company that receives five hundred million bucks of taxpayer money every year to support their little railroad.........and they are asking for more every year............I am sure they can handle a system of hauling people to the border..............

http://www.heritage.org/Press/NewsReleases/NR100301.cfm

JustRalph

09-18-2007, 10:43 PM

http://www.wbaltv.com/news/14144520/detail.html

Illegal Immigrant Pleads Guilty To Killing Marine, Date

COLUMBIA, Md. -- An illegal immigrant accused of killing a Marine and his date in a DUI crash last November pleaded guilty in court on Tuesday.

Edwardo Morales-Soriano, 26, pleaded guilty to two counts of negligent manslaughter.

According to police, Soriano's vehicle slammed into the rear of a car stopped at a red light

~more at the link~

JustRalph

09-18-2007, 10:45 PM

AR: 70,000 Illegal Hispanic Immigrants Reside in Arkansas, and 32,700 (nearly 1/2) Received Services from the State Health Department !!!!!

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/fn/5144529.html

JustRalph

02-22-2008, 07:38 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23297078/

Woman charged in fatal Minn. school bus crash

Investigator: Van driver believed to be in U.S. illegally from Mexico

MINNEAPOLIS - The driver of a van that hit a school bus in a crash that killed four children was charged Friday with four counts of criminal vehicular homicide and two lesser charges, authorities said.

The woman, identified as Alianiss Nunez Morales, 23, of Minnesota, failed to stop at a stop sign Tuesday before hitting the bus, which was carrying 28 students from Lakeview School, a prosecutor said. The accident happened near the small town of Cottonwood in southwestern Minnesota.

Morales was also charged with a stop sign violation and for driving without a valid license, Lyon County Attorney Richard Maes said.

Authorities said Morales is not the woman's real name, and Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents were trying to figure out her true identity. Claude Arnold, special agent in charge of investigations, said Morales told investigators she was from Mexico, and his agency believes she is in the country illegally.

Morales does not have a Minnesota driver's license, and "she doesn't have a (driver's license) anywhere that we're aware of," said Lt. Mark Peterson of the Minnesota State Patrol.

The criminal vehicular homicide charges are felonies, each punishable by up to 10 years in prison and a $20,000 fine. The other charges are misdemeanors.

Morales was expected to make her first court appearance Friday.

~much more at the link~

ljb

02-22-2008, 07:44 PM

JustRalph

02-22-2008, 08:10 PM

This immigration bs could be stopped in 6 months with minimal expense. Just make it unprofitable. Any company found using illegals should be fined say $10 to $20 per hour they worked and pay for their deportation. This would put a stop to it immediately.

I agree. How about this. Any business caught using Illegals has to shut down for 30 days. That includes large restaurants with multiple locations. Shut down all the locations at Cracker Barrel or the Cheesecake Factory for a month and there won't be an illegal working anywhere inside a month.

skate

02-24-2008, 09:47 PM

Arizona has a law doing this very thing.

As a matter of factuality, it's One of MY (the-skate) very significant Points as to why the employment situation is excellent.

As another matter fo factuality, Az is presenting some very good deals on realestate and jobs.

Heaven is where you find IT, and so is Hell.

bigmack

02-24-2008, 10:19 PM

Our brethren from the South that are here to have no effect other than providing jobs (or something like that) are moving out of AZ in droves.

riskman

02-25-2008, 02:37 AM

And then we have this:

NORTH AMERICAN UNION

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxzs46Nxohk&feature=related

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=14965

WE WONT NEED BORDERS !!!!

ddog

02-25-2008, 08:52 PM

I nominate this post as post of the week. Wow!

Sure was , so which are you Aryan Nation or Black Seperatist Fanatic?

"long term plan" - by who exactly?

"Mutt worker race" ..... still in this day and age it never ends.

The whole thing reads like something posted by a racist tin-foil-hat-tri-lateral commission type.

Very sad - it really is.

No sane person could read it without pity for the poster.

:ThmbDown:

JustRalph

03-14-2008, 03:02 AM

robert99

03-14-2008, 11:44 AM

So if he had been legal and employed by the same Contractor, he would not have killed or would the headlines would now have been "Another terrible death at the hands of a legal"?

This is getting towards the reverse of your argument that it is not the gun that kills, it is the person. It is still the person. If the illegal alien was not there, no one would have died. If the gun is not there no one gets shot. But the alien was there, without a gun, illegally employed and making a living in New York and who is to blame for all that?

Tom

03-14-2008, 12:38 PM

The point is that he had no business being here in the first place. Had he been deported as he should have been, he would not have been able to kill anyone here. The gun didn't do anything - the guy aimed the gun and fired it. That is not a hard concept to grasp.

JustRalph

03-14-2008, 01:13 PM

25 Americans a day are killed by Illeg. Aliens.

25x365=9125 Americans killed by Illegals each year. This comes from Congressman King's office.

Let's say he is half right. It is still more than all of our troops that have been killed in Iraq over five years. I don't see the left wing members of this board starting threads screaming about these deaths?

Make whatever excuse you want. These individuals couldn't kill anybody if they weren't here, Illegally. The responsibility for some of these examples are absolutely laid at the feet of our government. Many are the responsibility of the people who hire these individuals.

Do these lives not matter? They do and it is a disgrace that this is ignored.

46zilzal

03-14-2008, 01:23 PM

This is getting towards the reverse of your argument that it is not the gun that kills, it is the person. It is still the person. If the illegal alien was not there, no one would have died. If the gun is not there no one gets shot. But the alien was there, without a gun, illegally employed and making a living in New York and who is to blame for all that?
You have figured out the recurring Mantra.

Tom

03-14-2008, 01:43 PM

No, you have both missed it completley, again.

skate

03-14-2008, 04:57 PM

So if he had been legal and employed by the same Contractor, he would not have killed or would the headlines would now have been "Another terrible death at the hands of a legal"?

e gun that kills, it is the person. It is still the person. If the illegal alien was not there, no one would have died. If the gun is not there no one gets shot. But the alien was there, without a gun, illegally employed and making a living in New York and who is to blame for all that?

waaaaa:lol:?
Or, daaaaaaaaaa;)

hcap

03-14-2008, 09:15 PM

Another look with facts checked.......

http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/13/immigration-irrationality/

"In early page in the poll, headlined "Biggest Concerns About Illegal Immigration," featured the public responses to a set of concerns that were identified by the pollsters as the most common issues raised in focus groups, letting the poll respondents say what their "one or two biggest concerns about illegal immigration today" might be. They ran thus:

Immigrants receiving free public services such as health care (48%)

Immigrants not paying taxes (35%)

Takes jobs from Americans and lowers wages (20%)

Too many immigrants aren't learning English (20%)

Weakens our security against terrorism (18%)

Causing crime problems in many communities (17%)

If you look down that list, something stands out: Each item reflects a fear based either on outright false information or on gross distortions from a highly selective set of facts.

Readers of our earlier discussions of the immigration debate will already be familiar with the groundlessness of most of these concerns, but it's still worthwhile going through them, and getting the requisite reality checks, so we can see just how far astray from anything rational we're wandering in this debate."

Some excerpts among many....

http://rand.org/news/press.06/11.14.html

Just a small fraction of America's health care spending is used to provide publicly supported care to the nation's undocumented immigrants, according to a RAND Corporation study issued today.

Overall, immigrants to the United States use relatively few health services, primarily because they are generally healthier than their American-born counterparts, according to the study by the nonprofit research organization.

The report – which appears in the November edition of the journal Health Affairs – estimates that in the United States about $1.1 billion in federal, state and local government funds are spent annually on health care for undocumented immigrants aged 18 to 64. That amounts to an average of $11 in taxes for each U.S. household.

In contrast, a total of $88 billion in government funds were spent on health care for all non-elderly adults in 2000.

http://www.ailf.org/ipc/factchecks/CrimeFactCheck10-16-07.pdf

Although the undocumented immigrant population doubled to about 12 million from 1994 to 2005, the violent crime rate in the United States declined by 34.2% and the property crime rate fell by 26.4%.2 This decline in crime rates was not just national, it also occurred in border cities and other cities with large immigrant populations—such as San Diego, El Paso, Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, and Miami.

http://www.ailf.org/ipc/special_report/sr_022107.pdf

Crime Rates Have Declined as Immigration Has Increased:

Even as the undocumented population has doubled to 12 million since 1994, the violent crime rate in the United States has declined 34.2 percent and the property crime rate has fallen 26.4 percent.

Cities with large immigrant populations such as Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, and Miami also have experienced declining crime rates during this period.

Immigrants Have Lower Incarceration Rates than Natives:

Among men age 18-39 (who comprise the vast majority of the prison population), the 3.5 percent incarceration rate of the native-born in 2000 was 5 times higher than the 0.7 percent incarceration rate of the foreign-born.

The foreign-born incarceration rate in 2000 was nearly two-and-a-half times less than the 1.7 percent rate for nativeborn non-Hispanic white men and almost 17 times less than the 11.6 percent rate for native-born black men.

Native-born Hispanic men were nearly 7 times more likely to be in prison than foreign-born Hispanic men in 2000, while the incarceration rate of native-born non-Hispanic white men was almost 3 times higher than that of foreign-born white men.

Foreign-born Mexicans had an incarceration rate of only 0.7 percent in 2000—more than 8 times lower than the 5.9 percent rate of native-born males of Mexican descent.

Foreign-born Salvadoran and Guatemalan men had an incarceration rate of 0.5 percent, compared to 3.0 percent of native-born males of Salvadoran and Guatemalan descent.

bigmack

03-14-2008, 09:39 PM

Immigrants to the United States use relatively few health services, primarily because they are generally healthier than their American-born counterparts
:lol::lol::lol:

Are we talkin' immigrants or illegal Mexicans? The data changes dramatically if we dial in on the latter.

Nice try though.

hcap

03-14-2008, 09:43 PM

:lol::lol::lol:

Are we talkin' immigrants or illegal Mexicans? The data changes dramatically if we dial in on the latter.

Nice try though.
http://rand.org/news/press.06/11.14.html

“Our findings show a relatively small amount of tax money is spent on health services provided to undocumented immigrants,” said James P. Smith, the RAND chair in Labor Market and Demographic Studies and an author of the report. “Costs will be much higher for educating the children of undocumented immigrants, so that's where debate should center, not on these relatively small health care costs.”

"Foreign-born people in the LAFANS survey reported fewer health problems, an advantage that was especially pronounced among the undocumented. For example, while 38 percent of the native-born reported having a chronic health condition, only 27 percent of the foreign-born and 19 percent of the undocumented did so."

:lol: :lol:

bigmack

03-14-2008, 10:06 PM

You're out of your league here fella. The data I'd haul out would render your usual cherry picking of information useless.

How do you only find data that fits your view everytime?

hcap

03-14-2008, 10:15 PM

Anecdotal data?

So far that is what started this thread.

JustRalph

03-14-2008, 10:43 PM

Anecdotal data?

So far that is what started this thread.

Those people are dead aren't they? I don't call that anedoctal. Just more of your bullshit to advance your agenda. 12 million deported means 6-8 million less votes for Dems.

I smell another Perch..............

PaceAdvantage

03-15-2008, 03:08 AM

hcap

03-15-2008, 06:00 AM

Originally Posted by JustRalph
25 Americans a day are killed by Illeg. Aliens.

25x365=9125 Americans killed by Illegals each year. This comes from Congressman King's office.

Let's say he is half right. It is still more than all of our troops that have been killed in Iraq over five years. I don't see the left wing members of this board starting threads screaming about these deaths?

"....Even conservative blogs such as Captain's Quarters ridiculed King's and WND's numbers: "[T]he numbers demonstrate rather clearly that King and WND are talking out of their hats. Of all the people arrested for murders in 2005 (10,083), only 4,955 were white/Hispanic, and that includes all arrests in that racial category. In order to believe King and WND, every single one of these people would have to be illegal aliens." The blog added:

Asinine hardly begins to describe this report. Conservative decry junk science; bad statistics are just as bad. It took me all of 10 minutes to check this data, something that Rep. King apparently couldn’t bother to have his staff do, and a standard fact check that [World Net Daily] declined to perform. It seems that some people will believe almost anything as long as it can be used to demonize illegal aliens."

http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/2008/02/immigrants_incl.html

Immigrants, Including “Illegal Aliens” in California, Have Much Lower Crime Rate than the Rest of Us

Major study debunks fear of crime wave from those who cross border from Mexico

A study released today by the Public Policy Institute of California (PPIC) should lay to rest the myth that immigrants, including those who are here in California illegally, are responsible for crime waves. In fact, it is just the opposite of what some xenophobes would have you believe when they try to whip up fears about crime from those who cross over from Mexico to California. Even amongst this group, the rate of criminal activities is substantially lower than those who are native born Americans.

....• People born outside the United States make up about 35 percent of California’s adult population but represent only about 17 percent of the state prison population.

• U.S.-born adult men are incarcerated in state prisons at rates up to 3.3 times higher than foreign-born men.

• Among men ages 18-40 – the age group most likely to commit crime – those born in the United States are 10 times more likely than immigrants to be in county jail or state prison.

• Noncitizen men from Mexico ages 18-40 – a group disproportionately likely to have entered the United States illegally – are more than 8 times less likely than U.S.-born men in the same age group to be in a correctional setting (0.48% vs. 4.2%).

• California cities with a higher share of recent immigrants have lower property and violent crime rates than in those with fewer immigrants.

What is striking about this is that the immigrant population in California, as is true nationally, is skewed towards young adults and males—a group that statistically has a higher rate of crime. They also have lower educational levels. Yet they have much lower rates of incarceration and institutionalization—especially when compared with those who are born in the United States who have low levels of education.

PaceAdvantage

03-15-2008, 01:07 PM

Hcap, maybe I missed it, but are you saying that less than 13 people a day are killed by illegal immigrants?Are you disputing this statistic? I couldn't tell from your reply, which didn't seem to address the stat you quoted from JustRalph's post.

skate

03-15-2008, 01:23 PM

justme, but i do know of three crimes in Calif., commited on legal immigrants. Those legals claim the crimes were done by illegals, who just disappear.

this was 20 some years ago, might be worse now.

I guess, no record of the Legal/illegal is to be found.

So, that would be a good point (hiccups), since it brings up the problem of illegals, ie we have No Records of them in which we can make a report. In turn, this makes them tough to find. yeh, makes sense to me, thanks.:cool:

toetoe

03-15-2008, 01:46 PM

I LOVE 'noncitizen' ( :lol: ) as a sensitive descriptor. How about citizenship-challenged ? Maybe legality-challenged ? Not-technically-legally-visiting ?

"No human being is illegal." :( We are all citizens of Mother Earth. By the way, recycle that juice can and eschew that second wipe, now. It'll make a difference almost as huge as a vote for president. :faint:

chickenhead

03-15-2008, 02:03 PM

New study, just compiled by chickenhead, available for immediate release:

"100% of illegal aliens are criminals"

JustRalph

03-15-2008, 02:26 PM

I notice you use "people arrested for murder" when an illegal kills someone they are normally arrested for "vehicular homicide" or some other "traffic related crime" so you using the numbers for murders is apples to oranges. There are plenty of murders committed by Illegals, but it is in no way even close to the whole story. Once again you try to parse words and wrangle your way through an issue and think that you can fool people.

How about arson cases? I know of 6 murders committed by Illegals that were arson? King says he broke down every category............like I said.......... I made him for only being half right and the numbers are more than all of those killed in Iraq so far. The point is the same. Illeg. Aliens kill Americans every day. And nobody cares that they shouldn't even be here.

bigmack

03-15-2008, 03:07 PM

Certainly, much of what is involved in being a constituent of the "far left" (of which the likes of hcap & zilly ascribe), is the joy in being a contrarian at every turn of the page. Logic and reality have little chance to blossom while their need to "think differently than the general flow" artificially lofts them into feeling a higher plane of thinking. So, in the end, they Jones on the buzz of not thinking like others and become legends in their own minds.

It's not that they actually believe their positions, it's the retrograde shot into their veins that becomes their motiviation.

hcap

03-15-2008, 08:13 PM

http://firedoglake.com/2008/02/14/immigration-refuting-the-right/

1. Illegal immigrants are taking jobs away from American laborers and depressing U.S. wages.

In fact, according to a Pew Hispanic Center study
http://pewhispanic.org/reports/report.php?ReportID=69

Rapid increases in the foreign-born population at the state level are not associated with negative effects on the employment of native-born workers, according to a study by the Pew Hispanic Center that examines data during the boom years of the 1990s and the downturn and recovery since 2000.

An analysis of the relationship between growth in the foreign-born population and the employment outcomes of native-born workers revealed wide variations across the 50 states and the District of Columbia. No consistent pattern emerges to show that native-born workers suffered or benefited from increased numbers of foreign-born workers.

In fact, the number of native-born low-wage earners is falling nationally, so it turns out that immigrants play an important role in taking up the slack. According to the Urban Institute:

In 2005, immigrants overall represented more than a fifth of low-wage workers—those earning less than twice the minimum wage—and almost half of workers without a high school education. Unauthorized workers were nearly a tenth of low-wage workers and a quarter of low-skilled workers. The number of low-wage and low-skilled native-born workers fell between 2000 and 2005, due to improvements in their educational attainment but also due to decreasing labor force participation.

According to the study, the number of low-wage workers dropped by about 1.8 million; meanwhile, unskilled immigrant workers increased by 620,000, representing an offset of about a third.

2. Illegal immigrants are a drain on the U.S. economy.

Studies from numerous sources and in a variety of contexts come to a unanimous conclusion: The immigrant community is not a drain on the American economy but in reality has a powerfully positive net effect.

For instance, there is the the CATO Institute study
http://www.cato.org/pubs/handbook/hb108/hb108-63.pdf
which finds the following:

Immigration gives America an economic edge in the global economy. Immigrants bring innovative ideas and entrepreneurial spirit to the United States, most notably in Silicon Valley and other high-technology centers. They provide business contacts with other markets, enhancing America’s ability to trade and invest profitably abroad. They keep our economy flexible, allowing American producers to keep prices down and meet changing consumer demands. An authoritative 1997 study by the National Academy of Sciences concluded that immigration delivers a ‘‘significant positive gain’’ to native Americans of as much as $10 billion each year.

Meanwhile, the The President’s Council of Economic Advisors
http://www.whitehouse.gov/cea/cea_immigration_062007.html
found that the average immigrant pays substantially more in taxes than they collect in government services:

One key point is that "snapshot" views of immigration’s fiscal impact, particularly when based on analysis of households headed by immigrants, are insufficient and potentially misleading guides to immigration’s long-run fiscal impact.10 Instead, "Only a forward-looking projection of taxes and government spending can offer an accurate picture of the long-run fiscal consequences of admitting new immigrants" (Smith and Edmonston 1997, p. 10). This approach captures the full costs and benefits of the children of immigrants. Of course, such projections must rely on assumptions about the future path of taxes and government spending as well as economic and demographic trends. From this long-run point of view, the NRC study estimated that immigrants (including their descendants) would have a positive fiscal impact – a present discounted value of $80,000 per immigrant on average in their baseline model (in 1996 dollars).11 The surplus is larger for high-skilled immigrants ($198,000) and slightly negative for those with less than a high school degree (-$13,000).

Reviewing a number of studies for the Journal of Economic Perspectives, economists Jennifer Hunt of Yale and Brown's Rachel Friedberg concluded:

"Despite the popular belief that immigrants have a large adverse impact on wages and employment opportunities of the native-born population … empirical estimates in a variety of settings and using a variety of approaches have shown that the effect of immigration on … natives is small. There is no evidence of economically significant reductions in native employment. … Even those natives who should be the closest substitutes with immigrant labor have not been found to suffer significantly as a result of increased immigration."

Even localized studies in areas with high immigration rates find the same. A Texas study
http://www.cpa.state.tx.us/specialrpt/undocumented/
on immigration’s economic benefits concluded:

The Comptroller’s office estimates the absence of the estimated 1.4 million undocumented immigrants in Texas in fiscal 2005 would have been a loss to our Gross State Product of $17.7 billion. Also, the Comptroller’s office estimates that state revenues collected from undocumented immigrants exceed what the state spent on services, with the difference being $424.7 million.

A similar study conducted in California by the Public Policy Institute of California
http://www.ppic.org/content/pubs/cacounts/CC_207GPCC.pdf
found:

... [A]ccording to our calculations, during 1990–2004, immigration induced a 4 percent real wage increase for the average native
worker. This effect ranged from near zero (+0.2%) for wages of native high school dropouts and between 3 and 7 percent for native workers with at least a high school diploma.

... [T]he results indicate that recent immigrants did lower the wages of previous immigrants. Wages of immigrants who entered California before 1990 were 17 to 20 percent lower in 2004 than they would have been absent any immmigration between 1990 and 2004.

As Derrick Jackson reports....
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/04/12/undocumented_workers_contribute_plenty/

They perform jobs that are inseparable from our standard of living. Undocumented workers are about 5 percent of our overall labor force but -- according to the Pew Hispanic Center's analysis of Census data -- are between 22 and 36 percent of America's insulation workers, miscellaneous agricultural workers, meat-processing workers, construction workers, dishwashers, and maids. The American Farm Bureau, the lobbying group for agricultural interests, says that without guest workers, the United States would lose $5 billion to $9 billion a year in fruit, vegetable, and flower production and up to 20 percent of production would go overseas.

Indeed, the evidence so far indicates that immigration is an essential component of our economic health:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/03/AR2007060300909.html

Amid the blizzard of data concerning immigrants' effects on wages, welfare and municipal budgets, the essential point is this: The latest wave of immigrants -- legal and illegal, skilled and unskilled -- has stimulated enormous economic activity and wealth generation in this country, and it is implausible that the American economy would fare as well without them.

3. Undocumented immigrants are a burden on the American taxpayers because they don't pay taxes.

In fact, according to an Immigration Policy Center study titled "Undocumented Immigrants as Taxpayers":
http://www.ailf.org/ipc/factchecks/UndocumentedasTaxpayer.pdf

Between one-half and three-quarters of undocumented immigrants pay federal and state income taxes, Social Security taxes, and Medicare taxes. And all undocumented immigrants pay sales taxes (when they buy anything at a store, for instance) and property taxes (even if they rent housing).

They also contribute mightily to the solvency of the Social Security fund:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html?

As the debate over Social Security heats up, the estimated seven million or so illegal immigrant workers in the United States are now providing the system with a subsidy of as much as $7 billion a year.

While it has been evident for years that illegal immigrants pay a variety of taxes, the extent of their contributions to Social Security is striking: the money added up to about 10 percent of last year's surplus - the difference between what the system currently receives in payroll taxes and what it doles out in pension benefits. Moreover, the money paid by illegal workers and their employers is factored into all the Social Security Administration's projections.

4. Illegal immigrants are a burden on the health-care system.

Actually, according to a Rand study:
http://www.rand.org/news/press.06/11.14.html

...[I]n the United States about $1.1 billion in federal, state and local government funds are spent annually on health care for undocumented immigrants aged 18 to 64. That amounts to an average of $11 in taxes for each U.S. household.

This compares to 88 billion dollars spent on all health care for non-elderly adults in the U.S. in 2000. Moreover, as Justice for Immigrants notes, non-natives tend to use fewer health-care services. For example, in Los Angeles County, “total medical spending on undocumented immigrants was $887 million in 2000 – 6 percent of total costs, although undocumented immigrants comprise 12 percent of the region's residents.”

5. Illegal immigrants increase the crime rate.

There have been several studies that have debunked this claim from different angles. An Immigration Policy Center fact-check has most of the details:
http://www.ailf.org/ipc/factchecks/CrimeFactCheck10-16-07.pdf

Although the undocumented immigrant population doubled to about 12 million from 1994 to 2005, the violent crime rate in the United States declined by 34.2% and the property crime rate fell by 26.4%.2 This decline in crime rates was not just national, it also occurred in border cities and other cities with large immigrant populations—such as San Diego, El Paso, Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, and Miami.

Moreover, according to an the AILF study titled "The Paradox of Assimilation And The Myth of Immigrant Criminality", immigrants are five times less likely than native-born to be in prison, and immigrants from nations that account for most of the undocumented have lower incarceration rates. And

6. Illegal immigrants bring disease to American shores.

This canard picked up a lot of momentum thanks to Lou Dobbs' fraudulent reporting connecting a supposed rise in leprosy rates to immigration, but it's been around awhile. A Texas legislator last year tried to claim that immigrants were "bringing Polio, the plague, leprosy, tuberculosis, malaria, Chagas Disease and Dengue Fever to the United States in alarming numbers." Earlier, the Washington Times and Michelle Malkin tried to actually claim that sickle-cell anemia -- a non-communicable disease -- was being brought to American shores by immigrants.

Not only are all these claims utterly without foundation, the sources for the majority of them are largely far-right hate groups and pseudo-scientists who are better regarded as kooks.

7. These new Latino immigrants don't want to learn English and are reluctant to assimilate.

In fact, according to the Pew Hispanic Center:

Nearly all Hispanic adults born in the United States of immigrant parents report they are fluent in English. By contrast, only a small minority of their parents describe themselves as skilled English speakers. This finding of a dramatic increase in English-language ability from one generation of Hispanics to the next emerges from a new analysis of six Pew Hispanic Center surveys conducted this decade among a total of more than 14,000 Latino adults. The surveys show that fewer than one-in-four (23%) Latino immigrants reports being able to speak English very well. However, fully 88% of their U.S.-born adult children report that they speak English very well. Among later generations of Hispanic adults, the figure rises to 94%. Reading ability in English shows a similar trend.

As Justice for Immigrants notes:

The development of English proficiency among non-English speaking immigrants today mirrors that of Nineteenth and early Twentieth century immigration, when masses of Italian, German, and Eastern European immigrants came to America. While first generation, non-English speaking immigrants predictably have lower rates of English proficiency than native speakers, 91% of second generation immigrants are fluent or near fluent English speakers. By the third generation, 97% speak English fluently or near fluently.

The American Immigration Lawyers Association reports:

Within ten years of arrival, more than 75% of immigrants speak English well; moreover, demand for English classes at the adult level far exceeds supply. Greater than 33% of immigrants are naturalized citizens; given increased immigration in the 1990s, this figure will rise as more legal permanent residents become eligible for naturalization in the coming years. The number of immigrants naturalizing spiked sharply after two events: enactment of immigration and welfare reform laws in 1996, and the terrorist attacks in 2001.

robert99

03-15-2008, 09:06 PM

No, you have both missed it completley, again.

No Tom, no point is being missed.
The point is that these people "are here" and if "illegal" they won't be deported until "after" the few that do have committed some crime or served imprisonment.

As all countries are finding in the richer West, their borders are wide open by land, sea and air. You fill in a boarding pass as a tourist and book a hotel and that is it for 6 months - meanwhile disappear. If the jobs are there (which is what they come for) and employers turn a blind eye to make a quick buck from a willing worker then they will come and they will stay.

To even try to deal with the problem costs a huge amount of taxpayer's money and ties up huge manpower resource and fails after a few months chasing their tails. The Government has decided that on balance the situation is accepted and no they don't care if citizens are harmed, as long as the employers get their cheap workers and voters don't rock the boat too much.

PaceAdvantage

03-16-2008, 12:31 AM

OK, so if I'm reading things correctly, despite all the words typed, HCAP still hasn't refuted the fact that more Americans are killed EACH YEAR by illegal immigrants than were killed over the FIVE YEARS of the Iraq War....Just touching base to make sure I'm understanding everything correctly....

ddog

03-16-2008, 01:20 AM

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,337719,00.html

Illegal Immigrant Worker Sentenced in Slaying of Actress Adrienne Shelly
Thursday, March 13, 2008

NEW YORK — A construction worker who admitted strangling an actress and then hanging her body to make it look like a suicide was sentenced to 25 years in prison on Thursday.

Diego Pillco, a 20-year-old illegal immigrant from Ecuador, had pleaded guilty in February to first-degree manslaughter in exchange for the sentence. He had faced 25 years to life in prison if he had been convicted at trial.

Pillco, who was doing interior renovations in the Manhattan building where Adrienne Shelly had an apartment she used as an office, admitted he killed the "Factotum" actress after she found him trying to steal from her purse. He said he then hanged Shelly to make her death look like a suicide.

"I want to say to the family I didn't go out with the intention of hurting anyone," Pillco said just before the state trial judge imposed the sentence. "I have suffered because I know what I have done." Shelly's husband, Andy Ostroy, told Pillco he was "nothing more than a cold-blooded killer" and "a murderous beast" who intended to rob, rape and then silence an "innocent," "beautiful, loving woman."

Ostroy repeated Pillco's account of the incident to police, saying, "You tied her up and hung her the way you strung up pigs back home in Ecuador. What kind of animal are you?"

~more at the link~

Who employs these illegals?
If a crime is committed WHY can't the employer be THROWN IN JAIL RIGHT ALONG WITH THE ILLEGAL?
Until that starts this is all hot air.

Plus, 25 years in which jail?
We are going to PAY to feed and board the criminal as well?

Plus, could you give me a link to the 25 a day killed study with names and dates?
I have not tried to look it up, but I smell "crap for stats brain ooze".

Do any get wounded or every attack is a kill shot and if so where are the stats on those and the reports and charging docs?

I would like to look at this, I don't buy the number on it's face even at half of the 25.

JustRalph

03-16-2008, 01:41 AM

Congressman King from Iowa has a website.

Other studies say 12 are killed every day in Traffic accidents alone. That makes up half of Kings numbers right there. Think about it. It would not be hard to get to these numbers. In Los Angeles they don't even report whether an illegal has committed a crime or not. So how many do you think are Illegals in LA every day? Los Angeles has about 500 murders a year. How many do you think are committed by an illegal? How about the list below? Enough to make you pay attention?

Deputy Brandon "Brandy" Winfield, 29, of the Marion County, Ohio, sheriff's department, was murdered Oct. 17, 2004. Winfield was on routine patrol when he stopped to assist what he thought was a stranded motorist. Winfield later was found shot in the head in his vehicle, which had hit a guard rail and flipped into a ravine. Both of those charges in the crime were illegal aliens.

This Deputy was giving them a ride to the nearest phone after their car broke down. They Shot him in the head while the car was going down the road. They hit a guardrail and flipped. They crawled out the broken back windows and ran. This was close to home.

Detective Hugo Arango, 24, of the Doroville, Ga., police department, was murdered May 13, 2000. Arango was shot and killed after having been flagged down by a club patron who indicated that some men had been breaking into cars outside of a nightclub. Detective Arango located three suspects and detained them. As he searched for weapons, Bautista Ramirez, an illegal alien from Mexico, shot Arango four times. The first shot took off one of his fingers, the second went through his thigh. As Arango lay on the ground helpless, Ramirez intentionally fired one round through Arango's badge, and then executed him with a shot to his head that severed his brain stem.

National Park Service ranger Kristopher "Kriss" Eggle, 28, was murdered Aug. 9, 2002. Ranger Eggle was shot and killed in the line of duty at Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument while pursuing members of a drug cartel hit squad which fled into the U.S. after committing a string of murders in Mexico.
Deputy Saul Gallegos

Deputy Saul Gallegos, 35, of the Chelan County, Wash., sheriff's department was murdered June 26, 2003. Gallegos was shot and killed after stopping a vehicle in a routine traffic stop. Jose Sanchez-Guillen, 22, who had been deported three times to Mexico, was found guilty of aggravated first-degree murder.

Deputy Sheriff David March, 33, of the Los Angeles County sheriff's department, was murdered April 29, 2002. March was on routine patrol when he made a traffic stop. The driver, Armando Garcia, shot March in the chest and the head ? execution style. Garcia had been deported three times, had a long history of drug charges, violent crimes and weapons charges. The illegal alien from Mexico was already wanted for two attempted murders.

Officer Tony Zeppetella, 27, of the Oceanside, Calif., police department, was murdered June 13, 2003. Zeppetella stopped Adrien George Camacho for a traffic violation. Camacho pulled out a gun and shot the officer. Camacho then pistol-whipped the injured officer before shooting him again, killing him with the officer's own gun. Camacho is an illegal alien and gang member from Mexico with a criminal history that includes five previous felony convictions and several deportations.

A Huntsville, Ala., police officer, Daniel Howard Golden, 27, was shot multiple times by Benito Albarran, 31, an illegal immigrant in August 2005.

This is just a sample...............

JustRalph

03-16-2008, 01:46 AM

from this page at WND.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52198

While no government agencies specifically track crimes by illegal aliens, there have been some efforts to quantify the loss. Last December, Mac Johnson set out to investigate the number of homicides perpetrated by illegal aliens. Since the federal government would not provide any useful information, he contacted all 50 statehouses. Three months later, he had fewer than a dozen responses. Only one state, Vermont, provided any useful information.

He then set out to statistically estimate the number of murders by illegal aliens based on available crime data and conservative estimates of the actually number of illegal aliens in the country ? which, of course, nobody really knows.

He found that between 1,806 and 2,510 people in the U.S. are murdered annually by illegal aliens. If he's right, that would represent between 11 percent and 15 percent of all murders in the U.S.

In one study of a sample 55,000 illegal immigrants serving prison sentences in the U.S., it was discovered that they are responsible for over 400,000 arrests and over 700,000 felony crimes.

According to Heather McDonald of the Manhattan Institute, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens

hcap

03-16-2008, 08:10 AM

http://media.www.dailyfreepress.com/media/storage/paper87/news/2005/11/22/News/Report.Examines.The.Immigrant.Crime.Rate-1112740.shtml

Report examines the immigrant crime rate

"Researchers on Monday at the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University said that compared to the most recent generation of immigrants, the crime rate is higher among second- and third-generation immigrants.

Rob Sampson, the Harvard professor of sociology who co-authored the "Project on Human Development in Chicago Neighborhoods" report, said that contrary to what many people assume, as Latino immigration into cities rises, crime decreases.

Mexican-Americans now have the lowest crime rate in America, lower even than whites, Sampson said, adding that other Latino races have a crime rate slightly higher than whites but significantly lower than African Americans."

http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/news/local/article_1592092.php

"IRVINE – Immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than native-born Americans, according to a study released Monday by a UC Irvine professor for the Immigration Policy Center, based in Washington D.C.

UCI sociology professor Ruben Rumbaut found that immigrants of all national backgrounds were incarcerated at much lower rates than their American-born counterparts, according to the 2000 Census. The numbers applied to both legal and illegal immigrants.

His study also described a precipitous drop in crime rates nationwide throughout recent years – a period during which immigration has been at all-time record high. "While immigration is going up, crime is going down," Rumbaut said. "I think it's important to get the facts out there."

"Even as the undocumented population has doubled to 12 million since 1994, the violent crime rate in the United States has declined 34.2 percent and the property crime rate has fallen 26.4 percent," according to the report.

http://www.ocregister.com/newsimages/news/2007/02/27immigcrime_em.gif

http://www.newsweek.com/id/72735

"The "Safest City" awards published a few days ago by Congressional Quarterly back up this kind of thinking. Among the top 10 with populations over 500,000, four are in Texas: Fort Worth, San Antonio, Austin and the border town of El Paso, which is the second-safest big city in the country. Two are in California: San Jose and San Diego, which, again, is right across the line from Mexico. The safest city of all is Honolulu, with its very diverse population, while New York City ranks fourth. (New York City also looks as if it will have fewer murders this year than at any time since reliable statistics became available, in 1963.) "I would say, if you want to be safe, move to an immigrant city," Robert J. Sampson, chairman of the sociology department at Harvard University, told me on the phone this afternoon.

..Yes, these facts do run against conventional wisdom, which holds that newly arrived foreigners are essentially, even intrinsically, dangerous. A recent study showed that 75 percent of Americans think "more immigrants cause higher crime rates." Full stop. A single sensational incident involving illegal aliens, like the execution-style murder last summer of three students in Newark, N.J., can send shudders through people already nervous about all the newcomers.

hcap

03-16-2008, 08:37 AM

You're out of your league here fella. The data I'd haul out would render your usual cherry picking of information useless.

How do you only find data that fits your view everytime?You're out of your league here fella. Haul it out. Try not to use World Net Daily or Congressman Kings discredited data.

http://borderbattles.ssrc.org/images/fig4.jpg

http://borderbattles.ssrc.org/images/fig3.jpg

http://borderbattles.ssrc.org/images/fig1.jpg

" In 2000, 3 percent of the 45.2 million males age 18 to 39 in the United States were in federal or state prisons or local jails at the time of the census. Surprisingly, at least from the vantage point of conventional wisdom, the incarceration rate of native-born men in this age group (3.5 percent) was 5 times higher than the incarceration rate of foreign-born men (0.7 percent). The foreign-born rate was nearly two-and-a-half times less than the 1.7 percent rate for native-born non-Hispanic white men and almost 17 times less than the 11.6 percent rate for native-born black men. The lower incarceration rate among immigrants was found in every pan-ethnic category without exception. For instance, native-born Hispanic men were nearly 7 times more likely to be in prison than foreign-born Hispanic men, while the incarceration rate of native-born non-Hispanic white men was almost 3 times higher than that of foreign-born non-Hispanic white men"

hcap

03-16-2008, 08:47 AM

So to follow up on youse guys' so-called logic, we gotta deport all black high school dropouts.....

http://borderbattles.ssrc.org/images/fig6.jpg

For all ethnic groups, as expected, the risk of imprisonment was highest for men who were high-school dropouts (6.9 percent) compared to those who were high-school graduates (2.0 percent). However, the greatest difference in the risk of incarceration by education was observed among native-born men, not immigrants. Among the U.S.-born, 9.8 percent of all male high-school dropouts age 18 to 39 were in jail or prison in 2000, compared to 2.2 percent among high-school graduates. But among the foreign-born, the incarceration gap by education was much narrower. Only 1.3 percent of immigrant men who were high-school dropouts were incarcerated, compared to 0.6 percent of those with at least a high-school diploma.

Tom

03-16-2008, 12:03 PM

jballscalls

03-16-2008, 12:22 PM

We should deport them becasue they are criminals and here illegally. If we are going to let anyone come here who wants to fine, but count me out of paying any more taxes - I want me free ride too. You come here, come legally and pull your wieght and contributre to the society, otherwise, you are an enemy and need to be dealt with.

I say deport 100% of them - no matter what it takes....bring the troops home and secure the borders.

Tom has a point here. criminals should be punished, not rewarded. but how are we giving a free ride to illegals?? you cant get government support if your illegal can you?? i dont know about getting unemployment or welfare cause i've never applied for either, but i would assume you have to have a SS number to get any kind of benefit.

Tom

03-16-2008, 12:36 PM

As we saw last summer, over 72% of the people want our borders secured and illegal immigration stopped. Government continually keeps trying to end around us and head towards amnesty. Why? Because our government doesn't represent us at all - they are bought and paid for by businesses and it is hight time we stood up and did something about it. This government will NEVER get better - it is past time to stand up and stop it.

this is why I will never support JuanMcCan't under any circumstances - even if he becomes president and we are attacked worse than 9-11 ....I will NEVER suppor this POs traitor in anything. No matter which one of the AH's wins in November, it is bad news. All three are garbage and stink to high Heaven.

hcap

03-16-2008, 03:16 PM

From the above chart native born black high school drop outs get locked up 6 times as much as foreign born Hispanics.

Maybe bring the troops home to patrol high school cafeterias. And enforce attendance. Maybe make graduatin' mandatory by act of congress like "authorization for war".

Hows'about a "war on drop outs"?
Maybe Tom Tancredo can go on Lou Dobbs and rally all youse wingnuts against
young black kids failing in their grades?

ddog

03-16-2008, 03:49 PM

Tom has a point here. criminals should be punished, not rewarded. but how are we giving a free ride to illegals?? you cant get government support if your illegal can you?? i dont know about getting unemployment or welfare cause i've never applied for either, but i would assume you have to have a SS number to get any kind of benefit.

The "free ride" I see that can be directly addressed is that when one of these illegals is "tagged" and if they are/were working at something in this country , then that place of employment should be agressively targeted by law enforcement.

The effect of using the illegals is clearly to undercut your competition's cost of business.
I have to think that the great marjority of illegals are here either directly to work or to reside with others of their friends or family here that are working.

If you make the penality for business using illegals something along the lines of three strikes then soon you will have much less to deal with and THEN you can go after the ones that are left, which since they were not working it would seem should be sent back.

This may put some small business under , but that's too bad, they are breaking the law just as much as the illegal.
I say, send the owners to jail right along with the illegals and if not that , then any shared gvt costs due to the illegal being here and thus running afoul of the law should be fined right from the employer who hired them.

Just as in the "drug war" , one doesn't have to "use" the supply just because it's on the street.

There may well be jobs that go unfilled, that's too bad, if so.

People are not stupid, once you are KNOWN to be serious about your policy the flow will stop.

ljb

03-16-2008, 05:01 PM

Well put dDog, well put. I had posted similar sentiments here weeks ago. Take the profit out of illegals and it stops in months.

ljb

03-16-2008, 05:03 PM

Tom

03-16-2008, 05:21 PM

Well put dDog, well put. I had posted similar sentiments here weeks ago. Take the profit out of illegals and it stops in months.

Dems have been in charge over a year....when is that going to happen?
The WH doesn't makes laws, CONGRESS does. When will the dems DO SOMETHING?????????

Truth is, the DEMS are the ones who opened the floodgates on this problems and you know it. No one in either party wants to end illegal immirgration. Obama and hillary are both pandering to the illegals vote, so you know nothing will get done with either of them in the WH. Juan McCan't is a lying POS and you know where he stands on it.

Tom

03-16-2008, 05:23 PM

ljb,
Duncan Hunter, Fred Thomnpson.
Illegal imigration is the #1 issue in my book.
It determines the economy and it determines homeland security.
A nation that will not protect itself is not worth defending.
The best place for our troops is on the borders.
The government is now us and them. The dems and repubs are the same party, and this governemnt needs to be stopped cold. It is a bigger threat to us than Al Qeda, Russia, or China ever were. The enemy lives in DC.

Wos-dDxpJlQ

ljb

03-16-2008, 05:37 PM

Sorry Tom but,
The last amnesty bill took place under the gipper's leadership.
And as I mentioned in another thread, your choice for President has been vetoing the Democrats good laws.

hcap

03-16-2008, 05:41 PM

Ever wonder wha' happened to Duncan Hunter, Fred Thompson and particularly Tom Tancredo? The immigration issue although important is not a major concern among most Americans.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200803130006

Six different polls conducted since January asked respondents to name the issues most important to them, and not one indicated that illegal immigration was in the top three among voters as a whole:

* In a New York Times/CBS News poll conducted February 20-24, 4 percent of respondents cited "immigration" as the most important problem facing the country today. The most frequently cited issues of concern were the "economy" (29 percent) and "war" (15 percent). Respondents named four other issues ("health care," "Iraq," "terrorism general," and "other") as more important than illegal immigration.

* A DIAGEO/The Hotline poll conducted February 14-17 also found that 4 percent of respondents cited "immigration/illegal aliens" as "the most important issue facing the US today." The top three issues were the "economy in general" (39 percent), "war in Iraq -- oppose" (7 percent), and "fear of war/feelings of fear in this country" (6 percent).

* In a Fox News/Opinion Dynamics poll conducted January 30-31, 7 percent of respondents cited "immigration" as the most important issue in deciding their vote for president. The top issues were the "economy and jobs" (30 percent), "war in Iraq" (23 percent), and "terrorism and national security" (10 percent).

* In an NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll conducted January 20-22, 10 percent of respondents indicated that "illegal immigration" should be the federal government's top priority. "Job creation and economic growth" (26 percent), "the war in Iraq" (17 percent), and "health care" (17 percent) were the top three issues.

* In a CNN/Opinion Research poll conducted January 14-17, 31 percent of respondents said that "illegal immigration" would be an "extremely important" issue to their vote for president. The three top issues were "the economy" (45 percent), the "situation in Iraq" (43 percent), and "terrorism" (42 percent). "Health care," "gas prices," and "the situation in Iran" also were cited more frequently than illegal immigration as "extremely important."

* In an ABC News/Washington Post poll conducted January 9-12, 4 percent of respondents cited "immigration/illegal immigration" as "the single most important issue" in their choice for president. The three most important issues were the "economy/jobs" (29 percent), "Iraq/war in Iraq" (20 percent), and "health care" (10 percent).

The following recent polls have indicated that Republican voters place immigration among the top three most important issues (or tied for third), but Democratic voters do not: the February 14-17 DIAGEO/The Hotline poll, the January 30-31 Fox News/Opinion Dynamics poll, and a Bloomberg/Los Angeles Times poll conducted January 18-22. A CBS News/New York Times poll conducted January 9-12 found that immigration was the third-most important issue for Republican respondents; the poll did not ask Democratic voters to express their view on the topic.

Tom

03-16-2008, 05:41 PM

It was Ted Kennedy who kept interfering with provisions of the last bill that penalized employers for hiring illegals. You need to get past blaming everything
on the presidents. It is the crap-heads in the senate who destroyed this country.

ljb

03-16-2008, 10:27 PM

PaceAdvantage

03-17-2008, 03:48 AM

hcap

03-17-2008, 06:22 AM

Again, I must interject. Has Hcap or anyone else refuted the fact that illegals kill more Americans each year than has been lost in the 5 years of the Iraq War?And if this still hasn't been refuted, why is the left so vocal about so-called "senseless deaths" in Iraq, and so silent on all the TRULY SENSELESS DEATHS caused at the hands of illegal, criminal immigrants?There are no valid statistics to support this.

A Nov. 28, 2006, WND article, written by WND editor Joseph Farah himself, claimed that more Americans "were murdered this year by illegal aliens than the combined death toll of U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan since those military campaigns began." He then, oddly, immediately wonders in so many words whether that's even true:

Though no federal statistics are kept on murders or any other crimes committed by illegal aliens, a number of groups have produced estimates based on data collected from prisons, news reports and independent research.

Twelve Americans are murdered every day by illegal aliens, according to statistics released by Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa. If those numbers are correct, it translates to 4,380 Americans murdered annually by illegal aliens. That's 21,900 since Sept. 11, 2001.
King's claim that 28 percent of prison inmates are "criminal aliens" is itself questionable. Statistics from the Department of Justice's Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) and has found no support for his assertion; according to the BJS, 6.4 percent of all state and federal inmates at midyear 2005 were "noncitizens."Congressman King and World Net Daily have been discredited by a number of conservative blogs.

Conservative blogs such as Captain's Quarters ridiculed King's and WND's numbers: "[T]he numbers demonstrate rather clearly that King and WND are talking out of their hats. Of all the people arrested for murders in 2005 (10,083), only 4,955 were white/Hispanic, and that includes all arrests in that racial category. In order to believe King and WND, every single one of these people would have to be illegal aliens." The blog added:

Asinine hardly begins to describe this report. Conservative decry junk science; bad statistics are just as bad. It took me all of 10 minutes to check this data, something that Rep. King apparently couldn’t bother to have his staff do, and a standard fact check that [World Net Daily] declined to perform. It seems that some people will believe almost anything as long as it can be used to demonize illegal aliens.

This is from the 2000 Census...
Although it doe not show specifically murders or other violent crimes by subset, it does give a comparison.
http://borderbattles.ssrc.org/images/fig6.jpg

The studies and charts I posted indicate foreign born Hispanics are much less of a problem than other subsets of the population.

Meanwhile.....
In the U.S. for 2001, there were 29,573 deaths from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of death: Suicide 16,869; Homicide 11,348; Accident 802; Legal Intervention 323; Undetermined 231.(CDC, 2004) This makes firearms injuries one of the top ten causes of death in the U.S. The number of firearms-related injuries in the U.S., both fatal and non-fatal, increased through 1993, but has since declined steadily.(CDC, 2001) However, firearms injuries remain a leading cause of death in the U.S., particularly among youth (CDC, 2004).

hcap

03-17-2008, 06:38 AM

From one of my earlier posts....

5. Illegal immigrants increase the crime rate.

There have been several studies that have debunked this claim from different angles. An Immigration Policy Center fact-check has most of the details:
http://www.ailf.org/ipc/factchecks/...eck10-16-07.pdf

PaceAdvantage

03-17-2008, 04:52 PM

OK, so how many Americans are killed by illegal immigrants every year?

I can't believe, that in this day and age, we can't come up with a number everyone will accept.

Why is this so difficult? Someone, please tell me why in 2008 we can't come up with a number.

Tom

03-17-2008, 10:44 PM

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05646r.pdf

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53103

hcap

03-18-2008, 05:44 AM

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05646r.pdf
In response to this is a study I already posted
http://www.ailf.org/ipc/factchecks/...eck10-16-07.pdf

IMMIGRATION POLICY CENTER

March 2008
Immigrants and Crime:
Setting the Record Straight

During the current contentious and highly emotional national debate over U.S. immigration policy, many pundits and policymakers have tried to draw a connection between undocumented immigrants and high rates of crime and incarceration. For instance, some have attempted to back up the claim of immigrant criminality by citing an estimate from a 2005 report from the U.S.
Government Accountability Office (GAO) that 27 percent of all inmates in federal prisons are “criminal aliens.” However, the use of this figure as “evidence” that undocumented immigrants are prone to criminality is not only highly misleading—it is simply wrong.

Immigrants in federal prison: Why are the numbers so high?
All immigration violations fall under the federal system: Even in cases where an immigrant has not committed a criminal offense, or has committed an offense that isrelatively minor, immigration violations are automatically prosecuted under the federal system. As a result, undocumented immigrants in federal prisons may have committed a criminal offense, or they may simply be imprisoned in the federal system because of their lack of immigration status.

Thefederal prison population is a small share of the total prison population: One cannot make generalizations about the incarceration rates of immigrants based on the immigrant share of the federal inmate population since, according to a 2006 report fromthe U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics, only about 8 percent of the U.S. prison population is in federal prisons.
At the state and local level, where most U.S. prisoners are held, the incarceration rates for immigrants are LOWER than for the native-born.

The “27 percent” number does NOT refer only to undocumented immigrants. It is false to claim that the GAO found 27 percent of all federal prisoners to be “illegal.” The term “criminal aliens” includes immigrants who are in the United States legally as well as those who are undocumented.

Immigrants are five times LESS likely than the native-born to be in prison. In a 2007 study, University of California, Irvine, sociologist Rubén G. Rumbaut found that, in 2000, the 3.5 percent incarceration rate for native-born men age 18-39 was five times higher than the rate for immigrant men (0.7 percent). Moreover, among native-born male high-school dropouts, 9.8 percent were behind bars, compared to only 1.3 percent of immigrant dropouts."

.................................................. ..........................

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53103

This has already been discredited. I have posted a number of times what some conservative blogs have said.......

King's claim that 28 percent of prison inmates are "criminal aliens" is itself questionable. Statistics from the Department of Justice's Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) and has found no support for his assertion; according to the BJS, 6.4 percent of all state and federal inmates at midyear 2005 were "noncitizens."

Congressman King and World Net Daily have been discredited by a number of conservative blogs.

Conservative blogs such as Captain's Quarters ridiculed King's and WND's numbers: "[T]he numbers demonstrate rather clearly that King and WND are talking out of their hats. Of all the people arrested for murders in 2005 (10,083), only 4,955 were white/Hispanic, and that includes all arrests in that racial category. In order to believe King and WND, every single one of these people would have to be illegal aliens." The blog added:

"Asinine hardly begins to describe this report. Conservative decry junk science; bad statistics are just as bad. It took me all of 10 minutes to check this data, something that Rep. King apparently couldn’t bother to have his staff do, and a standard fact check that [World Net Daily] declined to perform. It seems that some people will believe almost anything as long as it can be used to demonize illegal aliens."

hcap

03-18-2008, 06:06 AM

From the GAO report Tom cited.
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05646r.pdf

On page 19 there is a table of successful federal convictions-not total arrests. As of December 2003, homicides are listed as totaling 13.

Not 13 per day but 13 overall. Representing <1% of all convictions.
Maybe King et al got this and ran with it misinterpreting in their haste.

http://www.lfbscholarly.com/new_americans/lee_202702.htm

" Crime on the Border: Immigration and Homicide in Urban Communities
Matthew T. Lee

"Lee finds that increased immigration is not directly related to increased homicide. Instead immigrants seem to play a positive role in creating social cohesion.

Studying El Paso, Miami, and San Diego over the years 1985-1995, Lee explores the complex relationship between ethnicity, immigration, and homicide. Popular opinion and sociological theory, particularly the social disorganization perspective, predict that immigration should increase levels of homicide where immigrants settle, but LeeÕs analysis (statistical, spatial, and temporal) generally finds that this is not the case. His results cast doubt on the taken-for-granted idea that immigration disrupts communities, weakens social control, and increases homicide levels. Rather, recent arrivals appear to play a positive role in these three cities, suggesting that conventional theories of crime be re-examined in light of the potentially revitalizing impact of immigration. "

hcap

03-18-2008, 06:19 AM

http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/taxes.asp

Snopes has some fact checking as well

PaceAdvantage

03-18-2008, 11:50 PM

From the GAO report Tom cited.
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05646r.pdf

On page 19 there is a table of successful federal convictions-not total arrests. As of December 2003, homicides are listed as totaling 13.That's federal prison. People don't usually go to federal prison for killing someone. They go to state prisons.

Any stats on that big boy?

PaceAdvantage

03-18-2008, 11:53 PM

So, in 2008, where statistics are virtually coming out of everyone's ass, we don't YET have a stat which tells me how many Americans are killed by illegal immigrants every year (MURDER, DRUNK DRIVING, etc...)

How can this be?

The kings of the Internet LINKS (Hcap, Secretariat, 46) can't come up with a stat. This is highly unusual....

I want to know the total number of Americans killed by illegal immigrants, on average, over the last 5 years (or forget an average, and just give me a total over the last 5 years). Why is this so hard to answer?

hcap

03-19-2008, 05:45 AM

That's federal prison. People don't usually go to federal prison for killing someone. They go to state prisons.

Any stats on that big boy?Listen up. I am using the GAO study that Tom linked. The same one that King and WND quote. The same one that has been discredited by us pinkos and discredited by a number of conservative blogs........
Conservative blogs such as Captain's Quarters ridiculed King's and WND's numbers: "[T]he numbers demonstrate rather clearly that King and WND are talking out of their hats. Of all the people arrested for murders in 2005 (10,083), only 4,955 were white/Hispanic, and that includes all arrests in that racial category. In order to believe King and WND, every single one of these people would have to be illegal aliens." The blog added:

"Asinine hardly begins to describe this report. Conservative decry junk science; bad statistics are just as bad. It took me all of 10 minutes to check this data, something that Rep. King apparently couldn’t bother to have his staff do, and a standard fact check that [World Net Daily] declined to perform. It seems that some people will believe almost anything as long as it can be used to demonize illegal aliens."

.................................................. .........................

Look at the table on page 18 big boy.
Federal prison homicide offenses-not convictions-1156
State prison homicide offenses-not convictions-4836
These are totals as of 12/03
Convictions for state are not listed. But big boy,
Going by the rate of actual federal convictions 13 per 1156
or app 1 in 87,state would translate as total of 171.

Ok,Big Boy???

Tom

03-19-2008, 07:29 AM

Your getting him upset, PA.:cool:

PaceAdvantage

03-21-2008, 12:18 AM

I take it you don't like the big boy term of endearment. OK. You don't have to tell me twice.

But, it's 2008, and STILL nobody has any concrete stats on how many Americans have been killed by illegal immigrants in the last five years. We have extrapolations, conjecture, and theories, but still, no hard figures.

I will continue to ask the question WHY and WHERE until I get some concrete answers.

Thanks.

ddog

03-21-2008, 12:32 AM

ok, since we seem stuck, why not figure it out ourselves?

Who on this board KNOWS firsthand with names and dates a case of this happenning?

Ok, now how many on this board KNOW firsthand of someone they knew being killed by a LEGAL citizen?

If you can't come up with anyone ask your friends and report that.

Pa NEEDS to know now, it seems to be keeping him awake nights!
:)

PaceAdvantage

03-21-2008, 04:26 AM

Instead of wise ass comments (and I'm guilty as well), how about some intelligent statistics?

Are you telling me they don't keep track of illegal immigrant homicides?

Hell, maybe they don't....maybe they're told to ignore such things in the name of political correctness. Heaven help us.

hcap

03-21-2008, 05:41 AM

I will repost some graphs that while they do not address your question directly, provide relevant non-anecdotal data. Drawn from the DOJ and the Census.

http://www.ocregister.com/newsimages/news/2007/02/27immigcrime_em.gif

http://borderbattles.ssrc.org/images/fig4.jpg

http://borderbattles.ssrc.org/images/fig1.jpg

http://borderbattles.ssrc.org/images/fig6.jpg

hcap

03-21-2008, 06:25 AM

If you do a google search "statistics+murder+illegal aliens" 90% of the anti-immigration responses use congressman King and WNDaily as their "fact" source. Here is the Captains Quarters' original response.

http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/008597.php

"November 29, 2006
More Demonization Of Illegals At WND

I'm in favor of tough border enforcement stopping illegal entry into the US. That comes from a solid concern about national security and support for legal immigrants who take the time to follow the law when they move to our nation. People who disrespect our laws at the outset of their relationship with Americans should not profit from their lawbreaking.

Many conservatives oppose illegal immigration on those grounds, and that opposition doesn't limit itself to the Right, either. However, what drives me batty are the unsubstantiated claims that a handful of militant immigration hawks use as scare tactics in an attempt to gain more support. Those claims usually get reported at some point by World News Daily, a hardline conservative news service, which doesn't usually miss an opportunity to relay the latest wild-eyed claim. Today, WND reports that Rep. Steve King (R-IA) put out 'statistics" that illegal immigrants murder over 4,000 Americans every year:

While the military "quagmire" in Iraq was said to tip the scales of power in the U.S. midterm elections, most Americans have no idea more of their fellow citizens – men, women and children – were murdered this year by illegal aliens than the combined death toll of U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan since those military campaigns began.

Though no federal statistics are kept on murders or any other crimes committed by illegal aliens, a number of groups have produced estimates based on data collected from prisons, news reports and independent research.

Twelve Americans are murdered every day by illegal aliens, according to statistics released by Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa. If those numbers are correct, it translates to 4,380 Americans murdered annually by illegal aliens. That's 21,900 since Sept. 11, 2001.

Let's ponder this for a moment before I get to some real statistics. WND and King acknowledge that no one has done any real study on murders and their perpetrators, and yet somehow they have figured out that illegals murder 12 people a day. That's murder, the deliberate act of killing someone else, as opposed to negligent homicide. We know that because King and WND claim that an additional 13 Americans a day perish as a result of drunken illegal immigrants driving on our roads.

They just know it, because some other groups have anecdotal evidence of it.

bigmack

03-21-2008, 08:47 AM

:sleeping::sleeping:
Lord knows what you're after with your usual "cut lots, paste plenty" technique, hcap.

See if you can graph 12-18 million illegal Mexicans. After you visualize that, spend a bit of time here: http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/ and axe yourself how many of those people would be living another day with their friends & famililes if it were not for being killed by someone who was in this country ILLEGALLY.

Then, come to your senses and refrain from this incessant C'ing & P'ing.

hcap

03-21-2008, 07:53 PM

So BM, you haul out a collection of individual incidents from one site. WHERE are the totals? Looks similar to MY estimate of actual convictions from the GAO report. Less than a few hundred. Not "more than all the deaths of American troops in Iraq since '03" as you tried initially to support.
Maybe if there was a website listing all the crimes committed by black high school drop outs you and Tom Tancredo can rally some more hate and vent your xynophobia instead towards some black kids.

http://borderbattles.ssrc.org/images/fig6.jpg

Your haulin' demonstrates a purely limited anecdotal collection of agreeably despicable incidents. But nowhere near 4000.
Haul again

This is what you said:
Originally Posted by bigmack
You're out of your league here fella. The data I'd haul out would render your usual cherry picking of information useless.
How do you only find data that fits your view everytime?

Certainly according to this verifiable data, you are mounting a war against the wrong enemy. Native born Hispanics according to your logic should be deported..........

http://borderbattles.ssrc.org/images/fig4.jpg

http://borderbattles.ssrc.org/images/fig3.jpg

" In 2000, 3 percent of the 45.2 million males age 18 to 39 in the United States were in federal or state prisons or local jails at the time of the census. Surprisingly, at least from the vantage point of conventional wisdom, the incarceration rate of native-born men in this age group (3.5 percent) was 5 times higher than the incarceration rate of foreign-born men (0.7 percent). The foreign-born rate was nearly two-and-a-half times less than the 1.7 percent rate for native-born non-Hispanic white men and almost 17 times less than the 11.6 percent rate for native-born black men. The lower incarceration rate among immigrants was found in every pan-ethnic category without exception. For instance, native-born Hispanic men were nearly 7 times more likely to be in prison than foreign-born Hispanic men, while the incarceration rate of native-born non-Hispanic white men was almost 3 times higher than that of foreign-born non-Hispanic white men"

bigmack

03-21-2008, 08:26 PM

you and Tom Tancredo can rally some more hate and vent your xynophobia instead towards some black kids.
Was there a Nutcase Convention that just let out or are you reciting a page from the Wackjob Playbook Du Jour with this "rally hate" bit? While en vouge, it's unbecoming of you.

Life is just a box of chocolates in Monroe. In parts south of you an invasion is well underway.

You're posting graphs & numbers that mean nothing to the topic at hand. Clear your mind for this, as I'll be brief and it may help. The topic is people here illegally and the deaths left in their wake. Not crime stats by native born/foreign born.

If I ask for people to live by the law of the land am I rallying hate? In your twisted thought process I suspect I know your answer.

I bid you adieu, Magoo.

hcap

03-21-2008, 09:01 PM

BM,

You claimed you can haul out data.
Your haulin' came up empty. As usual.

I should have known a glib fop with pretensions of literary airs could not follow thru' with the factual requirements of non-fiction. Rail away all you want about my motives and chocolates and nuts and such in Monroe, but the bottom line is you hauled up mostly bubkus and drek.

Nowhere in any of your haulin' did you manage to support the contention that illegal aliens have murdered 13+innocent victims per day. Or more than all the lost troops in Iraq.

bigmack

03-21-2008, 09:18 PM

I should have known a glib fop with pretensions of literary airs could not follow thru' with the factual requirements of non-fiction. Rail away all you want about my motives and chocolates and nuts and such in Monroe, but the bottom line is you hauled up mostly bubkus and drek.

Nowhere in any of your haulin' did you manage to support the contention that illegal aliens have murdered 13+innocent victims per day. Or more than all the lost troops in Iraq.
A glib fop? :lol::lol: I love it. I'd use it, but I'd misuse it, just like you did and I couldn't live with myself.

OH - I hadn't realized you're on mission to compare domestic illegal immigrant deaths with "lost" troops in Iraq. For a minute, I was under the impression you were out to chastise anyone for questioning the conduct of people that are here lawlessly. Good luck on your convoluted "mission". Live it up.

You're on your own, Mr. Fop :lol::lol::lol:
(This post will self destruct in 10 seconds)

hcap

03-21-2008, 10:23 PM

This is what started this chapter of this debate...

Originally Posted by JustRalph
25 Americans a day are killed by Illeg. Aliens.

25x365=9125 Americans killed by Illegals each year. This comes from Congressman King's office.

Let's say he is half right. It is still more than all of our troops that have been killed in Iraq over five years. I don't see the left wing members of this board starting threads screaming about these deaths?
After I refuted these numbers with relevant data, and some fact checking you BM, said....
You're out of your league here fella. The data I'd haul out would render your usual cherry picking of information useless.

How do you only find data that fits your view everytime?
Then this gem...
Certainly, much of what is involved in being a constituent of the "far left" (of which the likes of hcap & zilly ascribe), is the joy in being a contrarian at every turn of the page. Logic and reality have little chance to blossom while their need to "think differently than the general flow" artificially lofts them into feeling a higher plane of thinking. So, in the end, they Jones on the buzz of not thinking like others and become legends in their own minds.

It's not that they actually believe their positions, it's the retrograde shot into their veins that becomes their motiviation.
Glib fop is correct.Logic and reality have little chance to blossom while their need to "think differently than the general flow" artificially lofts them into feeling a higher plane of thinking
Much ado about nothing phrased in psycho-babble.
"artificially lofts them" ? Pu-lease.

hcap

03-21-2008, 11:02 PM

Posing as the powdered and wigged aristocrat pulling purple doilies from your sleeve, snorting snuff and babbling truisms does not an argument make

PA is correct there are no direct numbers, but huffing and puffing about my motives or psychology does not bend numbers or debates your way.

http://www.blakeneymanor.com/images/carryon/fop.jpg

PaceAdvantage

03-22-2008, 12:58 PM

toetoe

03-22-2008, 01:25 PM

PA,

I think this goes to the issue of "reactionary" versus "visionary." Somehow, someone who understandably reacts (maybe even overreacts, or misunderstands) to a perceived problem is considered a hardassed simplist.

Someone who inductively peers into some wonderful future utopia, a la RFK, Barry Obama, etc., and resolves to browbeat people into, e.g., eschewing plastic bags in favor of paper, or (horrors ! :eek: !) styrofoam coffee cups for paper, is seen as an altruistic, planet-friendly hero. :confused:

bigmack

03-22-2008, 04:02 PM

This is what started this chapter of this debate...
Pu-lease.
Shazzam, a chapter? I'll move on as I think I've got the plot figured out.

"Pu-lease", isn't that commonly used by seasonal visitors to Fire Island? (not that there's anything wrong with Fire Island)

Speaking of which; how is it they've got a lock on rainbows? Weren't rainbows already taken by little kids and school rooms?

http://www.characterbears.co.uk/productimages/display/SS-image-2006-12-07-45782ba998f46.jpg

toetoe

03-22-2008, 05:13 PM

Careful, mack. It's widely believed by experts that Chicken Little was killed by a falling rainbow. No word on whether an official apology to the Little family has been arranged. After all, we know it's SOMEONE'S fault; we just don't have a good suspect right now. We're PRIT-TEE sure it is some white guy, long dead.

hcap

03-22-2008, 08:27 PM

Why are there no direct numbers? Doesn't this disturb you?

We are a country of statistics, and yet an interesting statistic such as how many Americans are killed by illegal immigrants yearly can not be found.

I must say, I am shocked. Is someone trying to hide something?

I believe there might be some sort of conspiracy here. I believe that the supporters of an open-border policy are covering up the true impact of illegal immigrant crime. (After all, if the situation were reversed, and you wanted to know how many Americans are killing illegal immigrants, and you couldn't find these stats, you'd claim Bush and the Feds were covering it up, right? I'm just taking a page out of the far-left handbook here....)
What say you?
I don't think the far left has a monopoly on harebrained (hair?) conspiracies.
Just look at the "Weekend Prayer" thread. The antichrist and the internet.
Could we be talkin' Bill Gates?

And since neither BM or TT have added anything of substance to PAs' question-other than silly cutesies and playing with each others' easily titillated verbal appendages-let me ask what about the children? :eek: :eek:

Some statistics on other avoidable deaths-not hidden by the booze, firearm, swimming pool or toy industry........

*There were 16,885 alcohol-related fatalities in 2005 – 39 percent of the total traffic fatalities for the year.

*In the U.S. for 2001, there were 29,573 deaths from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of death: Suicide 16,869; Homicide 11,348; Accident 802; Legal Intervention 323; Undetermined 231.(CDC, 2004) This makes firearms injuries one of the top ten causes of death in the U.S.

*An average of about 240 children under 5 years old drown in swimming pools nationwide each year. But CPSC also has reports of about 110 children under 5 who have drowned in other products in and around the home each year. These products include bathtubs, hot tubs, spas, buckets and other containers.

*In 2000, approximately 2,300 children ages 14 and under died from accidents in the home.

*Approximately 161,100 children, ages 14 and under, were treated at hospital emergency rooms for toy-related injuries in 2004. Almost half of the children treated for these injuries (45 percent) were ages 4 and under.

Maybe we can deport, incarcerate, build a wall around, execute or incarcerate any offenders. Their numbers seem higher than death by illegal immigrant.

JustRalph

03-22-2008, 08:37 PM

We can argue about the stats forever. just go back and read the names of the dead I have posted in this thread. many police officers, innocent families. and on and on............these people aren't numbers and every one of them are dead. does it really matter how many? aren't these actual verified deaths enough............... if you don't think so............you are insane.

toetoe

03-22-2008, 08:44 PM

hcap, my dear chap,

You have a point, right ?

I daresay I have said nothing half so spooky as your little girl with the painted face.

bigmack

03-22-2008, 08:57 PM

And since neither BM or TT have added anything of substance to PAs' question-other than silly cutesies and playing with each others' easily titillated verbal appendages

Maybe we can deport, incarcerate, build a wall around, execute or incarcerate any offenders. Their numbers seem higher than death by illegal immigrant.
For the record, I have never seen, nor played with, toetoes appendages.

hcap, you're a piece of work, man. Who are you having this "debate" with... Cyberspace?

hcap

03-22-2008, 09:40 PM

toe toe,

You are mispronouncing Chicken Little. Try it suchlike....
Tom Tan-cre-do with a drumbeat on the "cre"

In fact there appear to be a slew Chicken Littles running around this thread looking for their xenophobic severed heads. Apparently those same severed heads had been artificially lofted off their earthbound feet of clay.
I daresay I have said nothing half so spooky as your little girl with the painted face.
Why is it when youse guys run out of semi-useful idiotic comments you get annoyed with my avatar? :lol:
Maybe I'll switch to something less controversial than a little girl advocating peace. Say howsabout a nice little non political economic minor issue much less important than doing mucho mas deporting?

http://www.bartcop.com/oil-five-profits208.jpg

hcap

03-22-2008, 09:53 PM

BM...
For the record, I have never seen, nor played with, toetoes appendages.

hcap, you're a piece of work, man. Who are you having this "debate" with... Cyberspace?Come on. Fess up no dangling participles? Ever?
( Not that there's anything wrong with that.)

Cyberspace? Chuckle away BM, chuckle away, but before you and your rational reasoning brain get artificially lofted off yonder, read the link.
Be afraid. V-e-r-y A-f-r-a-i-d

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=503341#post503341

:lol: :lol:

toetoe

03-23-2008, 12:16 PM

Sorry to pick on the little kid that starred in "The Ring," but it's like that movie, "Z." It creeps me out. Sorry, dude, it just does. :eek: ;)
Now, I could pick a more appropriate spot to bring up my discomfiture, granted. Also, I apologize for my spotty access to the Intro Net. I leave guys hangin' who want ANSAHS ! Inquirin' minds, doncha know ?

Mack, we never, ya know, swapped secret sauces er anything like that, right ?

I'm La'y King. Dya like the sawss ? WHOA. Back with your Cubbies calls and And'son Coopah, afta this word from Garlique.

toetoe

03-23-2008, 01:11 PM

If Tancredo is misguided, does that perforce banish his "reactionary" model to the scrap heap ?
I suppose we could say the Warm Earthers are also genuinely reacting to events, but it's not the same, is it ? The Torrid Terrans have an entire one-universe "Here's how we want you to behave" plan, which is a much scarier motive than good old greed and powerlust. :eek:

toetoe

03-23-2008, 06:21 PM

Dear mack,

Are you available for some upendage this evenin' mayhap ?

bigmack

03-23-2008, 07:18 PM

Dear mack,

Are you available for some upendage this evenin' mayhap ?
My calendar & appendage have been cleared for take-off. Off the top of me head I say we start said liaison at the posh(?) Pepper Mill. :ThmbUp:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u70/macktime/pepmill.jpg

hcap

03-23-2008, 07:20 PM

Tancredo is banished.

http://blogs.usatoday.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/07/12/tancredo.jpg

Speaking of creeped out.....

http://wallpapers.free-review.net/wallpapers/15/Orangutang_baby.jpg

bigmack

03-23-2008, 07:34 PM

Tancredo is banished.
Speaking of creeped out.....
You've found a new guy to demonize. That must be reassuring to you.

I would think that T2 would be on your OK List as his riffs with Bush are legendary.

Sleep well knowing there's another "very bad man" in the world for you to rail against vehemently.

hcap

03-23-2008, 07:44 PM

Some meaningless observations and questions.

1-Is there another word for synonym?
2-If the cops arrest a mime, do they tell him he has the right to remain silent?
3-Is it possible to be totally partial?

poecilonym-synonym; one of a variety of names for a thing

http://phrontistery.info/p.html

hcap

03-23-2008, 07:49 PM

Demonize? :lol: :lol:
Tan-cre-do?
Or Tom?
T2 never

JustRalph

04-06-2008, 11:24 PM

http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=72303

Guilty of destruction of property.........i.e. a Mexican flag..........

JustRalph

04-17-2008, 04:23 AM

http://www.forbes.com/markets/2008/04/16/pilgrims-pride-immigrant-markets-equity-cx_mlm_0416market36.html?feed=rss_markets

Pilgrim's Pride Plucked In Immigration Raids

Miriam Marcus, 04.16.08, 7:26 PM ET

Pilgrim’s Pride has a lot of holes to fill on its production lines.

Homeland Security agents took 400 of its employees into custody Wednesday in raids on chicken-processing plants in Batesville, Ark., Chattanooga, Tenn., Live Oak, Fla., Moorefield, W. Va. and Mt. Pleasant, Texas.

The U.S. Attorney’s Office said the individuals detained Wednesday were involved in identity theft and immigration-related crimes in order to gain employment in the country.

Pilgrim’s Pride (nyse: PPC - news - people ) has been outspoken over the years about the need for migrant labor. However, the company said it initiated the federal investigation that resulted in Wednesday's sweep after instances of identity theft were first discovered at its Arkansas plant. It said it had terminated all the employees who were arrested.

On Jan. 8., 20 employees of Texas-based Pilgrim’s Pride were indicted by a federal grand jury, charged with selling stolen Social Security numbers and counterfeit papers to illegal immigrants seeking employment at the company’s Mount Pleasant facility. (See: “ Fowl Play”)

“We share the government’s goal of eliminating the hiring or employment of unauthorized workers,” the company said. “We have terminated all of the employees who were taken into custody and will terminate any employee who is found to have engaged in similar misconduct.” Pilgrim’s Pride also said the investigation will continue.

The detained employees comprise 4.3% of the 9,400 people who work at Pilgrim’s Pride’s five raided facilities, and 0.7% of the company’s total roster.

~more at the link~

JustRalph

07-21-2008, 10:49 PM

San Francisco is a stain on the country.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,387722,00.html

Widow Wants San Francisco Sanctuary Law Changed
After Illegal Charged With Murder
Monday , July 21, 2008

A San Francisco woman whose husband and two sons were gunned down last month — allegedly by an illegal immigrant who remained in the city despite previous crimes — is demanding the city do something about its sanctuary law.

Danielle Bologna was widowed on June 22 when Edwin Ramos, 21, an illegal immigrant from El Salvador, allegedly gunned down her husband, Anthony, and two sons, Matthew and Michael, in a road rage incident when her family was returning from a picnic.

Ramos has been charged with three counts of murder in the case, according to the San Francisco Chronicle.

"It was a senseless crime, and had they done something this animal would not have taken my family," Bologna told FOX News on Monday. "I feel that the government should have stepped in. I feel that they allow these immigrants to come in and how dare they strip our families like this."

The Chronicle reported that Ramos was convicted of two gang-related felonies while a juvenile and remained in San Francisco because the Juvenile Probation Department did not alert federal authorities. San Francisco's 1989 "City of Refuge" ordinance prohibits city agencies from contacting the feds on immigration matters.
~more at the link~

boxcar

07-21-2008, 11:35 PM

If only all the illegal aliens were to sack and burn SF down to the ground, then perhaps from the ashes that mighty fine town would rethink it's moronic sanctuary laws.

Boxcar

juanepstein

07-22-2008, 02:42 AM

i cant stand people calling them illegal immigrants. they are not immigating they are here to mooch. they are mexican citizens and if you dont want to be an american citizen then you should be sent back to mexico. mexican citizens have no rights in america.if everyone called them mexican citizens no one would have a problem sending their aszez back to mexico.

calling all mexicans illegal immigrants is a spin. we should fell sorry for these immigrants because he walked a 100 yrds past the border. frkn give me a break.im italian and if italy was connected to america and all i had to do is cross the border back and forth do you think i would be an american citizen,hell no!mexican immigration is completely different then any other immigrant and should be dealt differently. immigrants from china or immigrants from zimbabwe dont the power to go back and forth from their country everyday.

80% of mexicans could give a rats about becoming an american citizen. i see a large amount of mexicans that have been here for 9 or 12 years and still dont know a stitch of english.

JustRalph

07-22-2008, 04:42 AM

Widow Wants San Francisco Sanctuary Law Changed
After Illegal Charged With Murder
Monday , July 21, 2008

related video

http://www.redlasso.com/ClipPlayer.aspx?id=412164b4-0f86-4c7d-99d2-e3b8e5cd3817

wonatthewire1

07-22-2008, 07:27 PM

wonatthewire1

07-22-2008, 07:28 PM

Tom

07-22-2008, 07:48 PM

Very sad story

But now that the border fence is going up thanks to the Prez, we can keep animals like this out of the country!

But then again, the Prez was a little late with the fence idea so now we have all those criminals here and how are we getting them out of the US of A unless there is a door to the fence? And you know what that could lead to, somebody collecting "fees" to get around the door thing.

Whatta mess!

Let's give credit where credit is due. The foundation to the explosion of illegal alieans can be traced directly back to Kennedy and McCain. two stublebums who are both EOTPs - Enemies of the People. Theses two together don't make up a good half wit. McCain can never erase his total faillure as a public servant. I just hope enough people wake up soon enough to see this jerk for the loser and liar he rally is. And run his arse out of town on a rail.

Suff

07-22-2008, 10:09 PM

[QUOTE] frkn give me a break.im italian and if italy was connected to america and all i had to do is cross the border back and forth do you think i would be an american citizen,hell no!

so you would prefer not to be American? You can get duel citizenship with Italy using jure sanguinis. (right of blood). Its much easier for you to get to Italy than it is for these guys to get here. More often an entire village will pool money to pay a smuggler. When the immigrant gets here he has an entire village to support. No time for mooching. many of these guys walk 100's of miles, or drive 100's of miles in a hidden compartment under some rickety school bus. :D, seriously, you could not stand ONE DAY of these guys everyday life.

I grew up in one the tighest Irish neighborhoods outside of Ireland, it abbutted one of the tightest Italian neighborhoods. Italians did not speak English, most of them anyway. Certainly the Italian immigrants did not. They sat on the stoop talking in Italian with Italian Flags hanging out of the windows up and down the street ( few if any American flags)

The Wasp's and the Blue Bloods would walk by and taunt them "learn English you greasy Italian!" "Your hanging a communist flag you anti-american grease balls"

So these ancestors of yours dreamed of one thing. That one day you would be the WASP's and the Bluebloods. That one day you could be a complete bully bastard.

Congratulations. Your Ancetors are proud.

Remember now... Its you who hangs the sign "no Irish need apply" its you who screams ignorantly "learn English you spic bastard". That's who you are. Congrats.

80% of mexicans could give a rats about becoming an american citizen. i see a large amount of mexicans that have been here for 9 or 12 years and still dont know a stitch of english

As I mentioned above your ancestors went decades speaking Italian only, while flying only the Italian Flag.

T'was the same in my neighborhood, you saw mostly the Irish Flag and lots of graffiti in support of the Irish Republican Army.

bigmack

07-23-2008, 12:57 PM

So these ancestors of yours dreamed of one thing. That one day you would be the WASP's and the Bluebloods. That one day you could be a complete bully bastard.
You're confusing immigration of the past with a current day, full scale invasion.

JustRalph

07-23-2008, 02:38 PM

You're confusing immigration of the past with a current day, full scale invasion.

excellent point.

wonatthewire1

07-23-2008, 10:17 PM

You're confusing immigration of the past with a current day, full scale invasion.

Interesting observation...

Per the Ellis Island immigration site, +40% of current Americans can trace back through an ancestor coming through Ellis!

http://www.ellisislandimmigrants.org/

Invasion Part Deux perhaps? But then again, most of them were "like us" kinda...

:eek:

JustRalph

10-24-2008, 03:51 AM

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,443866,00.html

'I Would Have Kept Shooting' Cops, NYC Gunman Says

Friday, October 24, 2008

NEW YORK — A man accused of shooting two police officers in the New York City subway said he would have kept firing had he not been shot by another officer, according to court documents released Thursday.

Raul Nunez was arraigned at his bed at Manhattan's Bellevue Hospital by a Queens judge on charges of attempted murder in the shooting during the Tuesday evening rush hour. He was being held without bail.

Officers Jason Maass and Shane Farina were wounded as they tried to arrest Nunez, who had illegally used a student MetroCard to enter a subway station in Queens, prosecutors said.

Nunez apparently used one of the officer's guns in the shooting.

"I saw the gun and I grabbed it and went wild," Nunez told investigators, according to a criminal complaint filed by Queens prosecutors. "I would have kept shooting but the other cop shot me and broke my leg. They started to put me in cuffs and I just grabbed the gun."

Defense attorney Kenneth Deane had no immediate comment.

Nunez said he found the subway pass on the train last week, and he struggled with the officers when they tried to arrest him, according to court papers.

"We fell down and I saw a silver gun on the ground," he said, according to the complaint. "I picked up the gun and shot the officer from about 2 feet away."

After fleeing to the upper level on an escalator, Nunez was confronted by Lt. Gary Abrahall, police said. He fired three more times before Abrahall fired six shots, hitting Nunez four times, they said.

Nunez, 32, is from the Dominican Republic and was deported in 1998 by an immigration judge after a drug arrest in New York. U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents say they're investigating how he got back into the country.

He reportedly told authorities he resisted because he was afraid he would be deported again if he was arrested.

Farina, who was shot near his sternum and suffered a fractured rib, remained in critical condition but was stable. Maass, who was shot in the lower back, was released early Wednesday from a hospital. Both officers were wearing bulletproof vests, police said.

JustRalph

11-01-2008, 04:41 AM

http://cbs4denver.com/local/kudlis.Francis.Hernandez.2.814073.html

Police, ICE Agents Disagree On Hernandez Case
By Ivan Moreno, AP Writer
AURORA, Colo. (AP) ― With 12 aliases and two dates of birth, Guatemala native and suspected illegal immigrant Francis M. Hernandez compiled a long Colorado rap sheet but managed to stay off immigration officials' radar screen.

Hernandez, who officials say passed himself off as a U.S. citizen, now sits behind bars, accused of causing a horrific crash at a suburban Denver ice cream shop that killed three -- including a 3-year-old boy. The tragedy has politicians clashing with each other over illegal immigration and promises to re-ignite what was once a top national campaign issue.

Democratic Gov. Bill Ritter ruefully acknowledged the system failed in Hernandez's case. Republican Rep. Tom Tancredo, who based his presidential campaign on illegal immigration, claimed the governor and Denver Mayor John Hickenlooper have "blood on their hands." U.S. Senate candidate Bob Schaffer, a Republican, used the incident to accuse his opponent, Mark Udall, of doing little on immigration reform.

Colorado authorities and Immigration and Customs Enforcement are also in discord: They dispute when ICE was notified to investigate Hernandez's legal status. State law requires cities and counties to report suspected illegal immigrants to ICE, except for minor crimes.

"This is a case where a man was masquerading, quite successfully, as a U.S. citizen," said ICE spokesman Tim Counts. Counts said ICE believes Hernandez is here illegally but will launch a full investigation once he's in their custody.

Hernandez was arrested more than a dozen times since 2003 by nine different state police departments, the Colorado Bureau of Investigation says. Some of the arrests were for criminal impersonation and forgery; the bulk were for traffic violations, including driving without a license and without insurance.

That's what police in suburban Aurora say he was doing Sept. 4, when witnesses reported him speeding, weaving in and out of traffic and running a red light before his Chevrolet Suburban slammed a pickup and pushed it into a Baskin Robbins shop.

Inside, waiting for ice cream with his mother, was 3-year-old Marten Kudlis. He died after being pulled from the wreckage. Two women in the pickup, Patricia Guntharp, 49, and Debra Serecky, 51, were killed instantly.

Hernandez faces charges of vehicular homicide, hit and run and reckless driving, and ICE has placed a hold on him. Hernandez's attorney, Kallman Elinoff, said he doesn't know whether his client is in the country illegally but that the issue is irrelevant to the case.

Despite Hernandez's legacy of arrests, federal immigration officials say they were out of the loop. Counts said local police never reported Hernandez to ICE, and that a post-accident ICE review of Hernandez's booking records showed he often was listed as a U.S. citizen.

In April, Aurora police stopped Hernandez for speeding. Detective Bob Friel said Arapahoe County sheriff's officials notified ICE about suspicions Hernandez was an undocumented immigrant, Friel said.

Sheriff Grayson Robinson said his staff told him they notified ICE but that no record of the communication exists. Robinson added that it's a moot point because ICE would only put a hold on someone facing felony charges, which didn't apply to Hernandez in that case.

Counts said that's not necessarily true, and that ICE may have launched an investigation of Hernandez given his criminal record.

In Denver, police didn't contact ICE after Hernandez committed a traffic infraction in July because there was no evidence suggesting he was an illegal immigrant, police spokesman Sharon Hahn said.

Colorado Republicans who say their bills targeting illegal immigration have been shot down by Democrats are criticizing Ritter for what they call his inaction on the issue -- despite the fact that ICE identified more than 4,500 illegal immigrants in Colorado jails in fiscal year 2007 and put them in deportation hearings.

"Doing nothing is really doing something: It's creating an atmosphere for this to go on," said House Minority Leader Mike May. He said Republicans will reintroduce legislation next year to deny bail to suspected illegal immigrants accused of felonies or drunken driving and to ban them from making plea bargains for serious crimes.

"We've been doing this every year," May said. "This isn't new. This isn't something where we're jumping on the bandwagon."

~more at the link~

ddog

11-01-2008, 07:29 AM

as long as "we" continue to hire and provide jobs to them.

simple.

perhaps a few more actions like the Iowa Ice raid would get this point home to you and others.

Tom

11-01-2008, 10:59 AM

Just like drug arrests, where cars get taken away, when a business is found to have hired illegals, that entire business should be confiscated and the owner get nothing - other than a jail term.

JustRalph

11-15-2008, 02:46 AM

Did your SSAN get handed out by the Dallas School system in this article? Who knows.............

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/111408dnmetdisdsocials.3d93dbc.html

From the article:

Years after being advised by a state agency to stop, the Dallas Independent School District continued to provide foreign citizens with fake Social Security numbers to get them on the payroll quickly.
Some of the numbers were real Social Security numbers already assigned to people elsewhere. And in some cases, the state’s educator certification office unknowingly used the bogus numbers to run criminal background checks on the new hires, most of whom were brought in to teach bilingual classes.The practice was described in an internal report issued in September by the district’s investigative office, which looked into the matter after receiving a tip. The report said the Texas Education Agency learned of the fake numbers in 2004 and told DISD then that the practice “was illegal.”
It’s unclear how long DISD had been issuing the phony numbers, and district officials didn’t know Thursday how many had been given out. But the investigative report and interviews with DISD employees indicate the practice went on for several years before it was discontinued this past summer.

JustRalph

12-26-2008, 08:55 PM

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/12/26/i270crash.ART_ART_12-26-08_A1_4LCBH8V.html?sid=101

Some victims identified in wrong-way I-270 wrecks
Drivers sought to dodge speeding car yesterday; 7 injured
Friday, December 26, 2008 3:14 AM
Updated: Friday, December 26, 2008 01:45 PM

The Franklin County sheriff's office has released the names of some of the people in a series of car wrecks caused by a wrong-way driver on the south Outerbelt on Christmas.

The car collided with five vehicles and injured seven people, nearly killing the wrong-way driver.

A fake Ohio ID and Mexican driver's license identified as Altunar Baltazar the critically injured driver of the white Nissan Maxima that sped 5 miles west through eastbound traffic, Deputy Steve M. Fickenworth said.

A caller to 911 said he saw the Maxima driving recklessly as it exited I-270 at Alum Creek Drive just before calls started coming in that the vehicle was going west on eastbound I-270.

A Chevy Trail Blazer rolled off the highway when it swerved out of the way. Columbus residents Richard Hammond, 52; his wife, Rhonda, 43; and her pregnant daughter, Mahogany Smith, 20, were in the vehicle.

Family friend Freda Heller said Smith's fetus was fine and she would be released from the hospital today. Rhonda Hammond's leg was dislocated in the crash, Heller said.

Troy Blankenship, 29, of Grove City said his Buick spun out and crashed into a tree while his wife, Christie, tried to avoid the Maxima. Their 7-year-old son was also in the car, but none of the three were severely hurt.

Fickenworth also said a van carrying Columbus resident Larry Riggs and his two children was in one of the crashes.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The original version of this story appears below:

The path of destruction and fear stretched at least 5 miles yesterday morning after a 24-year-old man rocketed his car the wrong way on the South Outerbelt.

The toll: Seven people injured, including the critically injured driver, Altunar Baltazar. Six vehicles crunched, including the smashed Nissan Maxima that witnesses say other cars were lucky to avoid.

"He headed right for us," Columbus resident Robert Crawford said. "It was like he was trying to hit us. He had the pedal to the floor. I knew he was going to clip someone quick."

Crawford, who was heading east on I-270, said the white car suddenly whizzed into sight over a rise on the highway near Alum Creek Drive. He dodged it and watched cars scramble to clear the road in his rearview mirror.

The Franklin County sheriff's office said the driver's unofficial Ohio ID card identified him as Baltazar, and gave his address as 807 Derrer Rd. He actually was pronounced dead at the scene, but medics later decided he was still showing signs of life and sent him to Ohio State University Medical Center, a sheriff's statement said.

The six other injured motorists were taken to Grant Medical Center and Mount Carmel West hospital. Authorities had not publicly identified them last night.

The crash, which occurred about 10:20 a.m., closed I-270 eastbound until about 4 p.m.

Grove City resident Sean Downs, 41, said he was traveling westbound when he looked across the median and saw the white car. He said it had to be going more than 95 miles per hour when it crashed.

"It was something surreal," he said. "I'm surprised he made it as far as he did. People were dodging like crazy."

Two cars swerved off the road, one rolling, to get out of the way, Downs said. When the speeding car reached the Scioto River, he said, it collided with a van that couldn't get out of the way.

Several law-enforcement agencies responded to the scene.

Little information was available yesterday about Baltazar.

A Columbus resident named Altunar Baltazar, who would be about the same age as the driver yesterday, was arrested last year and charged with operating a vehicle while intoxicated and driving without a license, according to the Marysville Journal Tribune.
Alcohol often is a factor in wrong-way driving, although occasionally someone drives against traffic to attempt suicide.

JustRalph

08-02-2010, 07:30 PM

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/aug/2/illegal-immigrant-killed-nun-released-by-feds/?clear_cache_true

Kills a Nun while waiting to be deported

From the article:

"The man suspected of drunken driving and killing a Catholic nun in Prince William County this weekend is an illegal immigrant who was awaiting deportation and who federal immigration authorities had released pending further proceedings, police said Monday.

The man, Carlos Montano, a county resident, had been arrested by police twice before on drunk-driving charges, and on at least one of those occasions county police reported him to federal authorities.

"We have determined that he is in the country illegally. He has been arrested by Prince William County Police in the past," said Officer Jonathan Perok, a police spokesman, who said U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement was notified at the time of one of those arrests."
'

more at the link

JustRalph

08-12-2010, 12:31 PM

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/08/12/1616484/man-accused-of-raping-children.html

Man accused of raping children ages 7 and 8

Suspect who's jailed in south Charlotte case has also been flagged as an illegal immigrant.

http://media.charlotteobserver.com/smedia/2010/08/11/19/getimagefromdbby.embedded.prod_affiliate.138.jpg

Read more: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/08/12/1616484/man-accused-of-raping-children.html#ixzz0wPTtcLLX

JustRalph

09-09-2010, 06:20 PM

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/local/Illegal-immigrant-indicted-for-murder-in-nun_s-death-785596-102473089.html

Illegal immigrant indicted for murder in nun's death
By: EMILY BABAY
Examiner Staff Writer
September 8, 2010

The illegal immigrant accused of killing a Benedictine nun in a drunken driving crash in Prince William County has been indicted for murder.
Carlos A. Martinelly Montano, 23, now faces a charge of felony murder, court records show, for the Aug. 1 crash that killed Sister Denise Mosier, 66.
Authorities allege that Montano was drunk when a Subaru Outback he was driving struck a guardrail then collided head-on with a car carrying Mosier and two other nuns on Bristow Road near Wright Lane.
Montano was initially charged with involuntary manslaughter, drunken driving, and driving on a revoked license.
Sisters Charlotte Lange, 75, and Connie Ruth Lupton, 70, were seriously injured in the crash.
The grand jury also indicted Montano with driving with a revoked license and maiming resulting from drunken driving.
He could receive up to 40 years in prison.

Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/local/Illegal-immigrant-indicted-for-murder-in-nun_s-death-785596-102473089.html#ixzz0z4ccMMBU

Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/local/Illegal-immigrant-indicted-for-murder-in-nun_s-death-785596-102473089.html#ixzz0z4cXXLtm

JustRalph

10-12-2010, 07:19 PM

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20101008/NEWS010702/10090322/15-year-old-gets-28-years-for-rape-beating

boxcar

10-12-2010, 07:30 PM

JustRalph

11-30-2010, 06:47 PM

boxcar

11-30-2010, 07:02 PM

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/11/30/1875235/just-back-charged-again.html

Deported once already, man charged again

Old sex claims greet immigrant
RALEIGH A man immigration officials deported in 2008 for drunken driving entered the country illegally only to be arrested again on an outstanding warrant charging him with sex offenses against a minor, authorities reported Monday

Read more: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/11/30/1875235/just-back-charged-again.html#ixzz16oRriDml

I suspect that it will also be more tolerant for Sodom and Gomorrah on the Last Day than for very many of our politicians. So much innocent blood on their hands...all because of their unbridled lust for power.

Boxcar

JustRalph

12-05-2010, 10:04 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40500909

Kill a nun and DHS helps in a coverup?

What the hell could they be hiding

TJDave

12-06-2010, 12:36 AM

It would be fine with me if we deported anyone convicted of a violent crime... Citizen and non-citizen alike. :ThmbUp:

fast4522

12-06-2010, 06:06 AM

It would be fine with me if we deported anyone convicted of a violent crime... Citizen and non-citizen alike. :ThmbUp:

Thats a good start, better would be to cycle the troops home and have them round up every single illegal and deport them. All sides of our government come together on this and shut down immigration completely for a period until all terrorist cells from abroad are zero to flat and the job problem is fixed. Let those be mad at both political party's for a unified front.

JustRalph

12-06-2010, 06:54 AM

It would be fine with me if we deported anyone convicted of a violent crime... Citizen and non-citizen alike. :ThmbUp:

What? And create another Australia ?

BlueShoe

12-06-2010, 12:56 PM

Thats a good start, better would be to cycle the troops home and have them round up every single illegal and deport them.
But you cant do that! I mean, after all, when we have "Comprehensive Immigtation Reform" (amnesty), Pancho and Luis are going to vote Democratic for the rest of their lives, so we cant spoil that can we?:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Besides, if we deported them, Americans of Hispanic descent would become very upset and angry, and might not vote for those in office that endorsed such a terrible thing. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

riskman

12-06-2010, 04:00 PM

Stop subsidizing illegal immigrants with our social welfare programs. Illegals know that the benefits are here for the taking. I know that legislation has been introduced on several occasions but as Ron Paul has said amendments were ruled "not relevant" to immigration reform. The hapless elephants and the donkeys in Congress are not interested in taking any serious steps to curb illegals or to protect our borders. Personally, I am not interested in immigration reform. If they are here illegally then they have to go nor are they entitled to any federal assistance programs including welfare, food stamps , education, medical, or citizenship for a child born to illegals. They have to wait in line, like all others and get the proper documentation to enter the U.S.

JustRalph

12-06-2010, 05:12 PM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/05/AR2010120503230.html?hpid=topnews

Unusual methods helped ICE break deportation record, e-mails and interviews show

JustRalph

01-31-2011, 03:26 AM

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/30/mexican-murder-suspects-turn-death-american-teen/?test=latestnews

JustRalph

02-14-2011, 02:35 AM

http://www2.insidenova.com/news/2011/feb/11/manassas-murder-suspects-past-arrests-didnt-trigge-ar-837219/

Ten years later.........

JustRalph

02-14-2011, 02:37 AM

more from the above......... (damn, that one minute goes fast)

Despite two arrests since a judge ordered his deportation in 2002, Jose Oswaldo Reyes Alfaro -- accused of killing three and wounding three more in Manassas Thursday night -- remained in the United States.

Reyes, an illegal immigrant from El Salvador, came into the United States illegally in 2001 and was ordered deported nine years ago. Manassas police on Thursday said he had been at large ever since.

But on March 13, 2004, he was picked up and charged with misdemeanor assault and battery, court records show. He was found guilty and sentenced to 90 days in jail, with all jail time suspended and ordered to pay $187 in court costs.

Court records also show that Reyes was charged on Jan. 25, 2008 with a misdemeanor charge of drinking alcoholic beverages in a public place.

According to court records, he paid a $25 fine and $72 in court costs in advance and did not appear in court.

In 2007, officials in Manassas and Prince William County authorized the Prince William-Manassas regional jail to enter into an agreement with Immigrations and Customs Enforcement. Under section 287(g) of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act, local law enforcement officers with ICE training are allowed to act as immigration officials and enforce federal immigration laws under certain conditions.

The program is designed to identify and deport illegal immigrants who have been involved in serious or violent crimes, such as murder, human smuggling, organized crime, criminal gang activity, money laundering, narcotics or smuggling.

It appears, given the time frame, that the crime behind Reyes’ 2008 arrest was not severe enough to trigger an ICE detainer under the 287(g) program.

PaceAdvantage

02-14-2011, 03:46 AM

That's weird...I thought I had set it back to its usual time limit...

BlueShoe

02-14-2011, 09:38 PM

This one has had me fuming ever since the story first broke years ago. The law breakers get rewarded and the lawful one gets punished. Whatever has become of the rule of law that protects a mans right to defend his property? So help me, am now thinking that the rancher would have been better off had he just shot all of the illegals.
www.brian-blackwell.com/2011/02/arizona-rancher-to-fight-court-order-to.html (http://www.brian-blackwell.com/2011/02/arizona-rancher-to-fight-court-order-to.html)

cj's dad

02-15-2011, 08:17 AM

This last paragraph in the article I think is very telling. Don't think for a moment that the lib judge(s) were not aware of his ties to the Minutemen.

From the article:

Barnett is credited with helping to start the Minuteman movement in Arizona in the late 1990's when he began patrolling ranch lands near Douglas, looking to stop illegal immigrants.

newtothegame

02-16-2011, 03:12 AM

Although in Mexico...this shows what we are dealing with on our southern border......

Two U.S. Customs Agents Shot in Mexico, One Killed

Posted on February 15, 2011 at 7:16pm by
The U.S. Department of Homeland Security confirmed Tuesday evening that two Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents were shot in the line of duty Tuesday while driving on a Mexican highway about 200 miles outside of Mexico City. The shooting incident left one agent dead and the other was reportedly in stable condition after being shot in the arm and leg

http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/map.gif (http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/map.gif) Image: BBC

.

According to a statement (http://www.ice.gov/news/releases/1102/110215washingtondc.htm) from ICE, the agents had been assigned to the ICE Attaché office in Mexico City and were on their way to Monterrey.

Unnamed sources told the Los Angeles Times that the agents were shot when their vehicle was stopped at a road blockade set up by local drug traffickers:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/developing-two-u-s-customs-agents-shot-in-mexico/

Bolding by myself....
But drug people have the power and ability to set up their own road blocks???
Lawlessness is the rule down there now...sad

TJDave

02-16-2011, 01:01 PM

But drug people have the power and ability to set up their own road blocks???

Yep. Pretty much always had. Mexico is corrupt to its core. It's one of the country's most endearing qualities...And why the U.S. should not risk any agents 'in country'.

Tom

02-16-2011, 01:33 PM

Civilization long ago by-passed Mexico.
I cannot understand why we treat it like a legitimate nation.

BlueShoe

03-07-2011, 07:10 PM

On this day in history, exactly 100 years ago, in response to the Mexican Revolution, President William Howard Taft ordered 20,000 US troops deployed to the border with orders to patrol it. The border area is far more dangerous today than it was a century ago, with the cartels and smugglers much more a threat to our security than was any bandit turned revolutionary, such as Doroteo Arango (Pancho Villa). History often does have a way of repeating itself, let us hope that this event does. No chance of this occuring with the present administration, but perhaps in the next one we can hope.

JustRalph

05-11-2011, 11:47 PM

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/apr/27/von-spakovsky-here-illegally-and-criminals-as-well/

Just a reminder of the latest stats

These numbers are staggering in my opine.

Tom

05-11-2011, 11:56 PM

Just had some murders down there the other day, and Barry goes down and makes jokes about it.

Class act. Muck like his bitch of a wife.

Problems with me calling here bitch, lefties?
I am just a new age poet.....get over it!

:lol:

BlueShoe

05-12-2011, 01:08 AM

Just had some murders down there the other day, and Barry goes down and makes jokes about it.
The Appeaser-In-Chief thinks that the border being under siege is funny. Real classy smart ass remark about Republicans wanting to build a moat and putting alligators in it. Nothing like starting the campaign more than a year early by pandering to Hispanic voters is there?

Tom

05-12-2011, 07:37 AM

He is pandering to Hispanic illegal voters.
We all know this POS has no regard for laws.
He has no respect for America and he is a racist to the bone.
Obama is a pig.

It is a good think Bin Laden was killed, because I have no doubt Obama would have bowed to him had he been brought back.

Just the kind of guy he is.

Robert Goren

05-12-2011, 07:50 AM

The republicans under Bush did nothing. The House now under the control of the republicans have not passed a bill out. The republicans are not going pass a bill out. They do not want shut off a source for cheap labor. They are pandering to the people who hire them for campaign donations. Hell, even the republican billionaire nomination for CA governor used an illegal as cheap cost housekeeper. Does anyone really think the republicans are going give their cheap labor no matter what they say when running for office?

JustRalph

01-23-2012, 03:19 AM

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/01/22/2602909/immigration-authorities-released.html

"When burglar Kesler Dufrene became a twice-convicted felon in 2006, a Bradenton judge shipped him to prison for five years. And because of his convictions, an immigration judge ordered Dufrene deported to his native Haiti.

That never happened.

Instead, when Dufrene’s state prison term was up, Miami immigration authorities in October 2010 released him from custody. Two months later, North Miami police say, he slaughtered three people, including a 15-year-old girl in a murder case that remains as baffling today as it did the afternoon the bodies were discovered.

DNA on a rifle found inside the house and cellphone tracking technology later linked Dufrene to the Jan. 2, 2011, slayings."

The episode is a black eye for U.S. authorities, who by law could not detain Dufrene indefinitely after the Obama administration ordered a temporary halt of deportations to the island nation. The deportations were halted because of the carnage wrought by Haiti’s January 2010 earthquake.

“Because of the moratorium on removals to Haiti in effect when Dufrene came into ICE custody, his removal to Haiti was not likely in the reasonably foreseeable future,” an Immigration and Customs Enforcement spokeswoman said in a statement Friday.

bigmack

01-23-2012, 03:32 AM

LA trying to change the impound policy for undocumented drivers.

Tough to argue with the parent of a dead child.

Oh, AND the fact that an undocumented driver is 5 times as likely to cause a life threatening accident.

http://www.ktla.com/videogallery/67449745/News/VIDEO-Tempers-Flare-at-Meeting-Over-Impound-Policy-Brandi-Hitts-reports

fast4522

01-23-2012, 07:33 AM

Immigrant felon freed by Obama deportation halt -- went on to murder three...

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/01/22/2602909/immigration-authorities-released.html

JustRalph

03-01-2012, 10:18 PM

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/03/01/vehicular-homicide-plea.html

This guy was deported once, came back, killed a guy and drove away

BlueShoe

03-01-2012, 11:22 PM

LA trying to change the impound policy for undocumented drivers.
It just got worse. Chief Charlie Beck and the four members of the LA Police Commision that voted yes should be fired. Another reward for the illegals, nothing for the citizens that are killed, maimed, or have their propery destroyed.
www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0229-lapd-impounds-20120228,0,5947649.story (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0229-lapd-impounds-20120228,0,5947649.story)

delayjf

03-02-2012, 10:20 AM

the Next time someone is killed in LA by an Illegal who should have had their car impounded- the city of LA is going to get their asses sued off for not enforcing State law. The lawyers are circling.

TJDave

03-02-2012, 10:42 AM

the Next time someone is killed in LA by an Illegal who should have had their car impounded- the city of LA is going to get their asses sued off for not enforcing State law. The lawyers are circling.

The city doesn't care. LA is occupied territory and the mayor is the head occupier.

Overlay

03-02-2012, 08:19 PM

From a story in today's Huntsville Times (Sorry, but I'm looking at the hard-copy story, and don't have a link to it.):

"COURT DELAYS ACTION

"Federal appeals will wait on ruling concerning Arizona immigration law before deciding fate of Alabama law

"Supporters have touted Alabama's immigration law for urging those here illegally to 'self-deport', but a federal appeals court on Thursday questioned if the law amounts to 'forced expulsion.'"

SO WHAT IF IT DOES? We're talking people who are here ILLEGALLY. With the memory still fresh in my mind (after 25 years) of all the time and effort that my wife and I had to expend, and all the bureaucratic hoops that we had to (and did) jump through, to first get her legally admitted to the U.S. when she was still a Philippine citizen, and then to get her naturalized after that, I have no use or patience for arguments like this.

And the real kicker is that the U.S. Justice Department is arguing to get the Alabama law overturned on the grounds that it usurps Federal authority. If the Federal government had gotten off its ass long ago and actually done something about the issue, measures like the Alabama law would not have been needed.

Tom

03-02-2012, 10:21 PM

It is a sad country that will not defend its sovereignty.
America is dying of a cancer......the democrat kind.

Robert Goren

03-03-2012, 04:56 AM

It is a sad country that will not defend its sovereignty.
America is dying of a cancer......the democrat kind.Yeah, like the republicans will do any better at getting rid of illegals. Obama is sending more back than GWB, which isn't say much(120% 0f 10 is 12). The last president to really do anything with illegals immigrants was Reagan. He made them citizens! After watching the GOP hopefuls fall all over themselves in Forida trying to the Hispanic vote, why I should I believe any of them would be any better than Obama on illegal immigration.

Tom

03-03-2012, 12:28 PM

You tell only half the story about Reagan and the deal that Ted the Head Kennedy reneged on. Just as it always comes out, never trust the word of a democrat - they lie.

Robert Goren

03-03-2012, 12:41 PM

You tell only half the story about Reagan and the deal that Ted the Head Kennedy reneged on. Just as it always comes out, never trust the word of a democrat - they lie.Reagan was no fool, he knew exactly what was getting into. On his worst day, he wasn't dumb enough to be fooled by somebody like Ted Kennedy.

BlueShoe

03-03-2012, 01:40 PM

The city doesn't care. LA is occupied territory and the mayor is the head occupier.
Ah yes, Tony V, the man that really wanted to be an actor but now wants to be the next governor, the man that never met an illegal alien that he did not like, just as long as it was from a Latino country. In case any missed it, Villaraigosa was selected to be the chairman of the Democratic convention. Now the rest of the country, including you eastern guys that are unfamiliar with this incompetant buffoon, will get a chance to see him putting on his airs.

JustRalph

03-14-2012, 12:48 AM

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/03/13/3094734/accused-south-charlotte-rapist.html

35 on 14

re-entered the country after deportation..........

:bang:

JustRalph

07-26-2013, 04:00 AM

Bumping an oldie but goodie thread

http://bit.ly/1bj8n1C

Illegal rapes and kills 93 yr old women

JustRalph

07-14-2014, 01:26 AM

An oldie but a goodie thread......

http://on.nbcdfw.com/GjgPT6v

Check out the story above. Deported 4 times before

I'm suspicious of the girls story.........but what the heck.

This old thread has never been more relevant

horses4courses

07-15-2014, 09:14 PM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsoD9iKCUAA9S73.jpg

JustRalph

07-15-2014, 09:37 PM

Obviously a public school grad :ThmbUp:

JustRalph

09-03-2014, 06:47 PM

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/teen-killed-5-year-old-cousin-dumped-body-vacant-apartment-police-article-1.1923884

Sad sad story.......one of Obama's kids ..............

JustRalph

09-06-2014, 02:58 PM

OntheRail

09-06-2014, 05:50 PM

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Texas/2014/09/5/Exclusive-Previously-Deported-Aliens-Kidnapped-American-Teen-for-Extortion-On-US-Soil

http://cdn.breitbart.com/mediaserver/Breitbart/Breitbart-Texas/2014/09/5/URGENT2.jpg

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/teen-killed-5-year-old-cousin-dumped-body-vacant-apartment-police-article-1.1923884

Sad sad story.......one of Obama's kids ..............

And 0bama still wants us to look the other way while they ( rhymes with spit) on the Law and believe that they are fleeing violence. :rolleyes:

Remember folks... their kin very well could be setting behind your kid or grandchild at school.

Tom

09-06-2014, 06:06 PM

Libs will gladly allow this vermin to go to the same bathrooms with your children.

Hey, they probably figure these are the kids they could not abort so now they have second shot at them.

JustRalph

02-04-2015, 01:55 AM

http://watchdog.org/197083/migrant-crime-obama/

JustRalph

02-23-2015, 08:39 PM

http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015/02/23/exclusive-my-son-is-dead-because-the-concept-of-borders-is-dead/

The beat goes on.......

snickster

02-23-2015, 10:10 PM

White lives don't matter.

fast4522

04-10-2015, 06:45 PM

http://ktar.com/22/1823390/Man-arrested-in-Pinal-County-has-been-deported-20-times

JustRalph

04-10-2015, 11:28 PM

The beat goes on.

Clocker

04-10-2015, 11:59 PM

http://ktar.com/22/1823390/Man-arrested-in-Pinal-County-has-been-deported-20-times

That guy sounds like he has the initiative and determination that we need in this country. We should exercise prosecutorial discretion to keep him and get rid of a lot of people with entitlement mentalities who spend their time whining about their rights as illegal immigrants.

JustRalph

06-15-2015, 07:40 PM

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/06/15/121-illegal-aliens-charges-with-murder-released-avoid-deportation-n2012746

Nobody gives a shit......

THIS IS A DISGRACE

fast4522

06-16-2015, 11:36 PM

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2015/06/15/121-illegal-aliens-charges-with-murder-released-avoid-deportation-n2012746

Nobody gives a shit......

THIS IS A DISGRACE

Well, remember the Mariel boatlift when President Carter took in all of Fidel Castro's unwanted. Basically emptying Cuban jails and mental health facilities and sending them all to Florida turning Miami into a war zone. The disgrace is the democratic party, no one cared in 1980 so why would anyone wake up now.

http://www.examiner.com/article/jimmy-carter-s-disastrous-dream-act-the-mariel-boat-lift

JustRalph

07-09-2015, 08:28 PM

A PA thread 9 years ahead of the curve........

Tom

07-10-2015, 07:25 AM

Trump + Ralph
2016

JustRalph

07-10-2015, 07:23 PM

You got the names backwards :ThmbUp: :lol: :lol:

Tom

07-11-2015, 09:07 AM

Guns don't kill people.
The FBI's incompetence kills people.

JustRalph

01-25-2017, 05:37 PM

ten years after this thread started

Today Trump gets to work on the border

It's 25 years too late,

I invite you to go back and read the links in this thread

ElKabong

01-25-2017, 06:50 PM

Want to know the sad reality of this? It won't be a wall. It will be a fence.

The prime s/c of this bid will likely be a Belgium owned company based in Texas. The Belgium corp bought out a US owned fence company a few yrs ago, was left holding the bag after Obama was elected.

Their current honcho is a Euro (not a smart sort of guy), the COO is a Mexican that barely understands English (even less smart...)

The shop is 90 % + Mexicans, or from south of the border. Turnover is ridiculously high. Quality problems out the wazzoo

The place is run like a sweatshop. They have had near death accidents in the past 2-3 years, and still operated w/o a Safety (HSE) Manager for a decent period of time. Very dangerous place to work unless you're in the office. If ever a union was needed, it was that place....But with the south of the border types working there (who knows who is legal there, it's anyone's guess), they don't dare unionize.

Most fencing companies I've come across, are the same as noted above. Not all, biut most

When the bids are awarded, we'll see if they get a chunk of this business. If you're truly into the buy USA thing, be sure to write your congressman and demand USA ownership be a top priority.... Otherwise, Euros will pocket the profits ... that's a guranteee

tucker6

01-25-2017, 07:07 PM

ElKabong

01-25-2017, 08:04 PM

Name of this company?

Check pm

JustRalph

02-14-2017, 01:04 PM

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/illegal-alien-kills-christian-missionary-indianapolis-video/

Never more topical

boxcar

02-14-2017, 01:37 PM

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/02/illegal-alien-kills-christian-missionary-indianapolis-video/

Never more topical

Watch the media spin this. She's probably a mother with little kiddies who came to this country to achieve economic freedom and to give a future for her kids and after Trump got elected she turned to heavy drink because she was so stressed out, fearful over her future, fearful over the future of her kids...yada, yada, yada, yada.....

JustRalph

03-03-2017, 11:12 PM

http://people.com/crime/ms-13-satanic-alleged-killing-teen-houston/

The beat goes on in Houston