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46zilzal
09-25-2006, 12:11 PM
Life's experiences of course. One gets input from the many amateur psychologists out here in internet land telling us what we mean by saying such and such without ever knowing the author of said statement.

I have ALWAYS enjoyed the story of the King's Clothes since it is a cultural phenomenon widespeard enough that anyone reading it can see accounts of it in their own life: AUTHORITARIAN, suppossed authority people, hammering a point of view without a shread of evidence, telling us that (pick one) we are too stupid, too inexpereinced, the wrong color, religion, social status, sex, come from the wrong part of the country, etc. and we HAVE to believe them or suffer the consequences.

Happily there are enough people who side for believing their own eyes and ears over these authoritarians to see through the b.s. but in doing so they have to suffer the insults and type casting that this Limbaugh type authoritarians use (name calling etc.) so not as many will step forward and be counted as recognize the bull being sholved to them.

In 1960 I had just read Profiles in Courage and was very impressed by the story of Edmund G. Ross who had the courage of his convictions to vote against impeachment of Andrew Johnson in spite of radical Republican pressure form Benjamin Wade, Thadeous Stevens and Charles Sumner. Johnson wanted to heal the wounds of the Civil War and pressed for what these reactionaries was TOO SOFT a position on reconstruction (Like today they were worried about loss of their power as the majority of the Southern elected congressmen were Democrats). It was the very first time I ever recall taking any stand in any political contest and I wore a Kennedy botton to school. I grew up in the right wing capital of my state where it was a joke that at high school football games the crowd would cheer "lean to the right, lean to the right, fight fight fight. There was NO LEFT, it was simply RIGHT of some other fixed point. I was told I had to take it off by a teacher (who just happened to be wearing a Nixon/Lodge button). I repsonded that NONE of the students were old enough to vote, that it was freedom of expression and that I was not vocalizing about it, simply wearing the button. I continued that if I had to remove the button, so did he and all the bumper stickers would have to come off all the cars in the lot. Sitting in the principal's office, I repeated the same argument and was sent back to class, without demerits, still wearing the button. The authority figure gained NO repspect. I judged what was right and was vindicated.

Bounced again in high school as I brought up the notion of Japanese internment camps all along the West coast of the U.S. and Canada. "There never was such a thing," was what the history teacher exclaimed at which point I produced a book I had found at the college library chronicling that very thing. Bounced as the kid noticing, yet again, the King's clothes. Vindication again as truth won out over authoritarian dictation.

In college it seemed that a lot of people figured out the B.S. where we spoon fed about the domino theory. Lots of people realized that the government was more interested in selling helicopters than fighting "Godless" Communism. Like the Buddhists say, they woke up, became enlightened and spread the news of yet another AUTHORITARIAN telling us one thing, when the facts of the situation, and the reports many soldiers coming home told us were 180 degrees the opposite.

I have always found the scientific method the best way to evaluate anything because once you go through the motions you have to accept the results. YOU decide based upon YOUR research, not having to accept some SPOON FED agenda which only benefits these story tellers.

"Two roads diverged in a wood and I-
I took the road less traveled by
And that has made all the difference.

Question everything because the clowns are trying to sell you something where it is a product or point of view.

ljb
09-25-2006, 01:33 PM
Excellent Post 46,
If you go back a few years on this board you will find a small minority were posting "the emporer has no clothes" statements.
Carry on, carry on ! :jump: :jump: :jump:

Snag
09-25-2006, 01:51 PM
46, I'd almost bet that you and ljb play the Don't Pass line everytime.

46zilzal
09-25-2006, 01:59 PM
46, I'd almost bet that you and ljb play the Don't Pass line everytime.
what is the don't pass line? Is that in craps?

never played that game as it is a negative expectation gamble

46zilzal
09-25-2006, 02:46 PM
being independent....I get it......

Wouldn't bet that game if my life depended upon it...

Bala
09-25-2006, 03:30 PM
".....that the government was more interested in selling helicopters than fighting "Godless" Communism......"
From hilicopter to abortion on demand. Wonder which one murders more human beings?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_being



_________________
Outsource congress and zilzal

46zilzal
09-25-2006, 03:38 PM
ah another authoriatarian at the podium.

It is not a black and white world.

46zilzal
09-25-2006, 06:24 PM
funny how things change. Time was when the THUGS in politics were organizations like the laughingly entitled Students for Democratic Society (the SDS).

Recall once that a British phtographer had a showing of his works from North Vietnam and these radicals tore up all the photos before they could be shown.

a reminder: au·thor·i·tar·i·an

1. Characterized by or favoring absolute obedience to authority, as against individual freedom: an authoritarian regime.
2. Of, relating to, or expecting unquestioning obedience.

of course never question who is behind the curtain in the great hall of the wizard: a King with no clothers of course.

Lefty
09-25-2006, 07:24 PM
What drives points of view? 46, damn clear that hatred drives yours.

46zilzal
09-25-2006, 07:36 PM
What drives points of view? 46, damn clear that hatred drives yours.
another in a long line of amatuer, in your case VERY AMATEURISH, pyschoanalysts.

I-N-D-E-P-E-N-D-E-N-C-E does, not being a Limbaugh clone

twindouble
09-25-2006, 08:34 PM
Question everything because the clowns are trying to sell you something where it is a product or point of view.

46; I'm confused, what are you getting at here? We don't live under a totalitarian government as I see it. Are you saying you just reject authority? Historically the BS has been thrown around from day one. It didn't take me long to realize it, like when I was in my teens why not you? Is it your life's goal to out all the bullshit, correct all the wrongs here and around the world, if so good luck. BS is BS, making a diet of it you risk becoming a bull shitter yourself. Yes, take that path less traveled you'll be in the minority when it comes BS in this country and most others. Beside BS is only dangerous if you believe it, take it for what it is and it goes away.

From the time I was born, there was and continues to be a prevailing condition of authority over my being, without a doubt I wouldn't have survived with out it. Like most all people we have limits when it comes to excepting how much control anyone, including those that rule have over us. That's an historical fact as well, it's called rebellion. Yes, a path less traveled, it's your choice if you think this country needs to be dismantled and recreated with your version. Personally, I think this is the best thing that's ever happened to humanity, even with the bull shit that exists.

As you know even historical facts can and have been twisted or totally erased to suit someone's purpose. Here again, that will never change.

If your post was a cut and paste, just ignore what I said because I want to know what you think. Like I said, "I'm confused".

T.D.

46zilzal
09-25-2006, 08:37 PM
what I am getting at is to think for yourself. A lost cause in a nation of sheep.

twindouble
09-25-2006, 08:53 PM
what I am getting at is to think for yourself. A lost cause in a nation of sheep.

I still don't get it? Are you saying that "nation of sheep" discribes the American people. Think for yourself I get.

46zilzal
09-25-2006, 09:24 PM
Wayne Dyer outlined it perfectly in Your Erroneous Zones: Mr C. did not really exist but was made up from the sum total of the popular opinions of the day as he was afraid of POSSIBLY offeneding anyone.

Takes gumption to be your own person. Majority would rather be a clone than think for themselves. Requires too much effort.

I recall once we had to write a paper and compare two theories of cellular membrane structure. Everyone went into one camp of the other. I looked at the data, did not like either and made a third NEW structure that fit the data. Always liked Butch Cassidy's line: I've got vision and the rest of the world is wearing bifocals....OPTIONS ARE ALWAYS there but it takes gumption to find them.

twindouble
09-25-2006, 09:38 PM
Wayne Dyer outlined it perfectly in Your Erroneous Zones: Mr C. did not really exist but was made up from the sum total of the popular opinions of the day as he was afraid of POSSIBLY offeneding anyone.

Takes gumption to be your own person. Majority would rather be a clone than think for themselves. Requires too much effort.

That's pure noncense, everyone is thinking for themselves and doing for themselves, it's time we start whipping the suckers back in line so they will put their country first, not last. Afraid to offend anyone what a laugh, do you live in a closet?

T.D.

46zilzal
09-25-2006, 09:47 PM
whip them into line? Now why doesn't that strike me as the essence of authoritarianism?

ljb
09-25-2006, 09:47 PM
Did any of you guys catch Keith Olberman tonight ? This guy is not afraid to speak for himself. He really laid into President Bush. Should be interesting to see the results of his "free" speech.

46zilzal
09-25-2006, 09:49 PM
Did any of you guys catch Keith Olberman tonight ? This guy is not afraid to speak for himself. He really laid into President Bush. Should be interesting to see the results of his "free" speech.
more and more people are catching onto the facts just like Vietnam.

twindouble
09-25-2006, 10:03 PM
whip them into line? Now why doesn't that strike me as the essence of authoritarianism?

Yes, they have gone so far astray a strong hand is what they need to wake them up, otherwise you get nowhere with them. Spoiled brats like ljb.

46zilzal
09-25-2006, 10:14 PM
yes the head of Oceania is needed to MAKE sure "they" all must dare not think differently.

46zilzal
09-25-2006, 10:16 PM
or his likeness from the BBC and just like any good totalitarian leader the first people they lock up are journalists and professors......people who think and tell others to question. THEN they really WHIP them into shape.

twindouble
09-25-2006, 10:25 PM
yes the head of Oceania is needed to MAKE sure "they" all must dare not think differently.

Look 46, I'm meary saying to many people are of track a strong hand or whipping can take the form of words, just a figure of speech built into my poor English. My Father said it better, the weakest link in the family gets more attention but it's needed. I view those I mentioned as a weak link to our existance.


T.D.

JustRalph
09-25-2006, 10:28 PM
Did any of you guys catch Keith Olberman tonight ? This guy is not afraid to speak for himself. He really laid into President Bush. Should be interesting to see the results of his "free" speech.

I did read his article on MSNBC's website. He called Chris Wallace a "monkey masquerading as a newsman" this is why Olberman is ignored by most.

Just because Wallace got Clinton to blow up, he feels he has to go after Wallace personally, and continue his feud against Fox news. Olberman makes himself more and more irrelevant every time he pulls this kind of crap. I give his show another year at most. He will be looking for work soon..........

46zilzal
09-25-2006, 10:28 PM
great line from the book 1984 relevant to the b.s. about the war on terror."To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed.”

Lefty
09-26-2006, 01:03 AM
46, you say think for yourself but you can't hardly post without posting a site with someone elses opinion. I guess think for yourself really means think like 46 or you're just a Rush Limbaugh clone. LOL

Lefty
09-26-2006, 01:04 AM
great line from the book 1984 relevant to the b.s. about the war on terror."To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed.”
We can also apply that quote to you leftwingers; prob more so than to anyone else.

Bala
09-26-2006, 01:26 AM
what I am getting at is to think for yourself. A lost cause in a nation of sheep.
This nation of sheep constitutes just 6 percent of the world’s population and somehow managed to become the mightiest military power on the globe. The most envied economy on the globe, a standard of living that people from many other nations risk their lives to get here. All this and so much more in only 227 years. Can you imagine if we were a nation of wolfs? Hell we may dethrone God.

No wait; I must be deluded by this nation of sheep. Viva la revolution. Fidel Castro for presidenta of the world.

_________________________
OutSource American liberalism.
No wait, I cannot be so cruel
to the rest of the world.

PaceAdvantage
09-26-2006, 02:32 AM
Reading some of these posts in this thread, I now know why Cartman hates hippies so damn much....

ljb
09-26-2006, 08:20 AM
Yes, they have gone so far astray a strong hand is what they need to wake them up, otherwise you get nowhere with them. Spoiled brats like ljb.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Snag
09-26-2006, 11:00 AM
46, don't you find it strange that you want to put the whole nation in a box and that only you have found a way out?

Example ----> A Nation of Sheep vs.Think for Yourself

Do you feel you are the only one to know the answers? You post here telling everyone you have found the answers for yourself with clear thinking, reviewing the facts, quoting 1984 and shakespear, finding scientific methods to justify your position and then you call everyone else clowns and sheep. Knowing the answer is not knowledge. Knowing how to use the answer is the key to living with others. This nation, as a whole, the one you trash at every turn, knows the answers. Some day I hope you learn how to use the answers you profess to know. Today, I don't think you do. That my point of view.

46zilzal
09-26-2006, 11:19 AM
NEVER said everyone not once. Basis of the entire thread was people are incresingly becoming too lazy to even have a clue beyond what the popular opinion of the time is. Can see it in their use of language all the time: THAT POINT IN TIME = let's copy those Watergate guys rather than simply saying "then."

Lefty
09-26-2006, 11:27 AM
46, did find HIS answer; he wants to be a Socialist, so he went to Canada. Good start, nest stop, France, 46?

46zilzal
09-26-2006, 11:34 AM
I function as immune from any form of government that I can. Owe allegience to none, defend none, support none.

Lefty
09-26-2006, 11:46 AM
sounds like you're just an outcast and a bitter one to boot. I can never take someone like you seriously. Without govt, we have anarchy. so that makes you an(fill in the blank)

46zilzal
09-26-2006, 12:03 PM
the govt will continue....just without my support. You have ZERO ability to read. Need your eyes checked?

Bala
09-26-2006, 12:05 PM
I function as immune from any form of government that I can. Owe allegience to none, defend none, support none.
And yet, you live in a nation which affords you the very freedom and liberty to do as you please. While, with the same breath, mock it’s institutions. What is the definition of hypocrisy anyway?

You can always move to a more progressive nation. Hugo Chavez would love to welcome you.


_________________
OutSource congress.

46zilzal
09-26-2006, 12:20 PM
criticize them

of course you can characterize it anyway you see fit.

Lefty
09-26-2006, 12:22 PM
I'd love to get a picture of Chavez, Danny Glover, Cindy Sheehan and 46 all together.

46zilzal
09-26-2006, 12:26 PM
that would only occur in Photoshop.

My friend did a movie (Buffalo Soldiers)with Glover in Arizona and says he is a very nice guy.

Lefty
09-26-2006, 12:33 PM
Glover, yep just another nice guy that got rich in America but cuddles up to the likes of Chavez.
Yes, 46, the govt can go on without you, but where would you be without the govt?

Tom
09-26-2006, 05:25 PM
Hey 46.....you get any money for seeing patients under the health coverage up there?

You drive onthe streets?
Ever use public transportation?
Ever fly?
Use heat in the winter?
Get your water from a tapp in your house?
Flush a toilet in your bathroom?

Where do you think that stuff comes from?

46zilzal
09-26-2006, 06:15 PM
comes from taxpayers after the politicans grab all they can.

Lefty
09-26-2006, 07:10 PM
comes from taxpayers after the politicans grab all they can.
46, you're just a bitcher and a hater that offers nothing uplifting or helpful.

46zilzal
09-26-2006, 07:14 PM
46, you're just a bitcher and a hater that offers nothing uplifting or helpful.
thanks Dr. Freud.... gonna ask about bed wetting and dream analysis next?......or in your case Tarot cards.

ALSO run to your English book: "who offers" not "that offers"

Tom
09-26-2006, 07:37 PM
You depend on the governemtn and you damn well know it.
Untiol you have an outhouse, a well, ride horse on trails, and do not take any moeny from gov'nt programs, get off your high horses and admit it -



YOU NEED THE GOVERNMENT.

GaryG
09-26-2006, 07:44 PM
ALSO run to your English book: "who offers" not "that offers"In this particular context Lefty is correct....

Lefty
09-26-2006, 07:58 PM
thanks Dr. Freud.... gonna ask about bed wetting and dream analysis next?......or in your case Tarot cards.

ALSO run to your English book: "who offers" not "that offers"
No Tarot cards needed. you're as transparent and as weak as water.

Snag
09-26-2006, 08:24 PM
ALSO run to your English book: "who offers" not "that offers"

I guess it is true.......

Those that can't do try to teach!

46zilzal
09-26-2006, 09:19 PM
reference to a living person gets a WHO objects get a THAT.

Adjectival clauses

Like a single-word adjective, an adjectival clause describes a noun (in the sentence's main clause) and answers one of these questions
which one? what kind?

An adjectival clause usually begins with a relative pronoun, which makes the clause subordinate (dependent).

Common relative pronouns:

that which who whom whose

NOTE: Use who, whom, and whose to describe people.

Use that and which to describe things.

Adjectival clauses always follow the person, place, or thing they describe, usually immediately.

GaryG
09-27-2006, 08:18 AM
reference to a living person gets a WHO objects get a THAT.
But you are brain dead...

PaceAdvantage
09-27-2006, 11:03 PM
But you are brain dead...

This kind of name calling does nothing but promote more useless posts....