What a Game!

[bigmack]

Padres - Dodgers 9/18 at the home of the Dodger Dog (which ain't as good as it once was)http://www.artie.com/20030925/arg-weenie-dog-tailwag-88x58-url.gif

Anyone catch wind of this battle? Bottom of the ninth SD brings in the formidable closer Trevor Hoffman. LA ponks back to back to back to back home runs! - Ties the game @ 9all

Long story short Dodgers win bottom 10th 11-10

Hell of a game

http://gifs.bestgraph.com/sports/baseball/baseball-19.gif

[freeneasy]

how many people were left in the 9th to watch such an awsome, awsome stand by the dodgers. and just think of what those people that left the game in the 9th were saying while they were listening to the rest of the game on the way home. :p :D

[bigmack]

how many people were left in the 9th to watch such an awsome, awsome stand by the dodgers.
Bout 1/2 from the sold-out crowd that it was. Jumping to the 110 the 405 the 101 only to be locked in the same grid they would be had they been witness to such a great ending.

As a Pads fan, freenez - arguably either deserved to walk away the victor

[Bathless]

Only the 4th time in MLB history there were 4 consecutive homers (back-to-back-to-back-to-back), first time since 1964.

Oddly, the 3 previous times it happened were in 1961, 1963 and 1964, smack dab in the middle of a pitcher's era.

I wonder if any of the previous ones were in the Coliseum. Anyone know?

[kenwoodallpromos]

But I hate the Dodgers.
They beat the Giants too many times!
(befoire you say it, I know- Giants lost 20-8 last night on stolen signals with the new catcher Greene.

[bigmack]

Only the 4th time in MLB history there were 4 consecutive homers (back-to-back-to-back-to-back), first time since 1964.

Oddly, the 3 previous times it happened were in 1961, 1963 and 1964, smack dab in the middle of a pitcher's era.
I wonder if any of the previous ones were in the Coliseum. Anyone know?
I'll snoop around and see if I can find it Bath.

Hey, by the way, I see this kid Jake Peavy has a pretty good swing on him for a pitch.
In your opine, what is the most noteworthy hit a pitcher has ever delivered?

[Bathless]

The previous occurrence of the four back-to-backs was in 1964. The Twins did it in the 11th inning at KC. The Indians did it in 1963 and all 4 homers came against the same pitcher -- Paul Foytack. I'm pretty sure Foytack was either a Tiger or a Whitehoser. I haven't dug up the occurrence in 1961 yet.

Great hits by a pitcher? Whew. With the DH, that takes the AL out of it ever since they instituted that awful rule. Toughie. As I posted here elsewhere, I think the greatest game ever by a pitcher was Rick Wise's no-no in which he also hit two dingers.

But I'm drawing a blank on memorable, timely hits by a pitcher....

[Bathless]

While I'm trying to come up with a memorable hit by a pitcher, here's one of my favorite quotes.

When asked for his career highlight, Bob Uecker responded: Getting an intentional walk from Koufax....

[Bathless]

Wait. Here's 2:

Nolan Ryan hitting Robin Ventura in the face about 30 times after Ventura rushed the mound.

Juan Marichal planting his bat into the back of John Roseboro's head.

Not what you're looking for, is it is Mack?

BTW, Ventura is the only player in MLB history to hit a salami in both ends of a double header. That one might stand for a while.

[Bathless]

More Ventura. He's also one of only 12 with 2 salamis in 1 game. Nomar is also on this list.

Fernando Tatis is the only player with 2 salamis in 1 inning.

Four big leaguers hit lead-off homers in both ends of a double header. Ricky Henderson and Brady Anderson both did it. I'm drawing a blank on the other two.

[Bathless]

Harry Hooper led off both ends of a double header with homers in 1913. The fourth occurrence was a lot more recent.

[JPinMaryland]

Hits by pitchers...

In the '68 world series Detroit was down 3-1 in games and they're down 3-2 in game 5 in the seventh inning. I dont know how many outs there were (2?) but for some strange reason Mayo Smith allows Lolich to bat for himself. He was a pretty good hitting pitcher but a PH seemed the call. Anyhow he gets a hit and the Tigers score 3 runs in the inning to win the game. ANd they come back to win the series too. I'll try to find the rest of the details.

[JPinMaryland]

actually Lolich was not a good hitting pitcher, his career ba. was .110. He did hit his only career HR a few days earlier in this world series. There was one out in the 7th with the Tigers down to their last 8 outs and Mayo Smith sends Lolich to the plate...

Lolich said that he expected to be pulled for a ph. Makes no sense but he got a hit and they scored three.

[bigmack]

Nolan Ryan hitting Robin Ventura in the face about 30 times after Ventura rushed the mound.
Juan Marichal planting his bat into the back of John Roseboro's head.
Not what you're looking for, is it is Mack?:lol::lol:


Ok B-less we'll abondon ship on the pitch bats.

How bout most number of plunks in a game? (batters hit by a pitch)
And some of the more memorable plunks?

[bigmack]

A cursory dig yielded a nice nugget.

As the plunkee, "Dandy" Don Baylor was lambasted a record 50 times in one season. After a spell he took to wearing a wet suit under his uniform to deaden the pain from being plunked

[kenwoodallpromos]

For Atl vs S.F., 2 slams and an RBI single. Opposing pitcher Ray Sadeki hit a HR also.

[bigmack]

I haven't dug up the occurrence in 1961 yet.
Here's the skinny:
The Milwaukee Braves did it in the seventh inning at Cincinnati on June 8, 1961 (Eddie Mathews, Hank Aaron, Joe Adcock, Frank Thomas), the Indians did it in the sixth inning against the Angels on July 31, 1963 (Woodie Held, Pedro Ramos, Tito Francona and Larry Brown) and the Twins did it in the 11th inning at Kansas City on May 2, 1964 (Tony Oliva, Bob Allison, Jimmie Hall and Harmon Killebrew).

[Bathless]

A cursory dig yielded a nice nugget.

As the plunkee, "Dandy" Don Baylor was lambasted a record 50 times in one season. After a spell he took to wearing a wet suit under his uniform to deaden the pain from being plunked

Is that the truth? Or a myth?

I also remember Ron Hunt getting hit a lot. Zimmer too, a lot of them in the coconut. I remember a picture of Zim in all the papers after one plunk. His head was totally lopsided. I guess it never went back to its original shape. Accounts for why he looks the way he does today :bang: .

[Bathless]

Here's the skinny:
The Milwaukee Braves did it in the seventh inning at Cincinnati on June 8, 1961 (Eddie Mathews, Hank Aaron, Joe Adcock, Frank Thomas), the Indians did it in the sixth inning against the Angels on July 31, 1963 (Woodie Held, Pedro Ramos, Tito Francona and Larry Brown) and the Twins did it in the 11th inning at Kansas City on May 2, 1964 (Tony Oliva, Bob Allison, Jimmie Hall and Harmon Killebrew).

So Foytack was with the Angels? I don't remember his being with the Halos.

I was at Yankee Stadium the day Fregosi broke in. The Angel's starting SS, whose name escapes me, slid home and Yogi blocked the plate. The nameless SS banged his legs against Yog's shin guards and got carried off. Fregosi took over and played a long time.

Pedro Ramos got into the act? Good hitting pitcher, I guess, unless Foytack was just serving up BP-type stuff that day.

[Bathless]

Hits by pitchers...

In the '68 world series Detroit was down 3-1 in games and they're down 3-2 in game 5 in the seventh inning. I dont know how many outs there were (2?) but for some strange reason Mayo Smith allows Lolich to bat for himself. He was a pretty good hitting pitcher but a PH seemed the call. Anyhow he gets a hit and the Tigers score 3 runs in the inning to win the game. ANd they come back to win the series too. I'll try to find the rest of the details.

I remember that hit. McLain won 30 that year, but Lolich was the true star of the series. Lolich's regular season on the mound wasn't too shabby, either.

I have to think Gibby got a few important hits in his day. Pretty good with the bat, if memory serves.

[bigmack]

So Foytack was with the Angels?
Alongside, the likes of Belinsky, Grba, Ken McBride, Fred Newman…
By the way there were 2 outs in that 6th inning.

Zimmer too, a lot of them in the coconut. I remember a picture of Zim in all the papers after one plunk. His head was totally lopsided. I guess it never went back to its original shape. Accounts for why he looks the way he does today
Don "Popey" Zimmer was leading the AA with 23 HR and 63 RBI when he was plunked by Jim Kirk on July 7 53, unconscious for 2 weeks with loss of speech for 6.
At this juncture he's well prepared for another blunt force trauma.

http://store.nypost.com/shp_images/merch_646.jpg

[JPinMaryland]

"..The Angel's starting SS, whose name escapes me, slid home and Yogi blocked the plate. The nameless SS banged his legs against Yog's shin guards and got carried off. Fregosi took over and played a long time."

LOoks like Joe Koppe was replaced by Fregosi, in 62 but the Baseball ency. does not show an injury to Koppe. FRegosi got into 52 games at SS that year, Koppe 128. Billy Consolo played 4.

[Bathless]

It was Koppe. I guess carried off was an exaggeration. :blush: Probably more like helped off. It was shins against shin guards. From that moment on, he and Fregosi might have shared SS that season. The next season, though, the job was all Fregosi's.

But I'm 99.99% it was Fregosi's MLB debut.

Actually, who am I kidding? It was 44 years ago. I'm not sure of what happened this morning. :confused:

[JPinMaryland]

Nope Fregosi actually had a cup of coffee in '61 going 6 for 27. Its unlikely though that your story happened in '61 as Koppe arrive from the Phillies via trade and played 88 games at SS. Ken Hamlin played 39, Fritzie Brickell 17, Rocky Bridges 25, Gene Leek, Tom Satriano and Billy Moran a handful...

[bigmack]

It was Koppe. I guess carried off was an exaggeration. :blush:
Good grief Bath, I was all over Koppe but was thrown by the "injury sliding into The Yoge", now it turns out it was a mere delusion on your part?

If anyone could be trusted for their baseball memories it was you.

Now it's all circumspect.

http://gifs.bestgraph.com/personnages/s_grands/s_grands-26.gif

[Bathless]

Now I'm not even sure it was Koppe. I might actually be thinking of Bobby Knoop, who played 2nd alongside Fregosi for years. Anyway, I think I might be on safe ground in saying that it was Fregosi's New York debut.

How did I get started on Fregosi, anyway? I probably still blame him a bit for Joe Carter's HR.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

[JPinMaryland]

probably not Knoop who didnt get there until 1964 and he played 161 games that year. He missed 20 in '65...

[Bathless]

I know it wasn't Knoop that Fregosi replaced. I just agreed that it was Koppe that Fregosi replaced, probably because his name is somewhat close to Knoop who, I remembered, was an Angel. Never thought it was Knoop who had the collision, though.

It's apparent that I don't remember much, but someone got hurt colliding with Yogi and Fregosi replaced him. On second thought, was it really Yogi?

Yeah, I'm sure it was Yogi. There was never any mistaking Yogi.

I also have a vivid memory of a Red Sox - Yankee game I saw as a kid. I believe Ford was pitching and I know Skowron was playing first. Jensen was on 2nd and Piersall was on 1st. Ford throws over to Skowron, but his pick-off was low and Skowron had to dive for it. Skowron was down on his face with the ball, so Piersall sat on his back, rendering the Moose immobile, but keeping a hand on the bag. Meanwhile, Jensen scores. Set off a rhubarb (other sports have fights and arguments -- only baseball has rhubarbs) which was a thing of beauty. Casey went ballistic. Martin was going nuts (pretty sure he was the 2B-man that day). I know they made Jensen return to 2nd. I forget what they did with Piersall. Probably called out for interference.

Later, Yogi won it with a HR -- picked off a pitch up in his eyes.

[Bathless]

The Indians did it in 1963 and all 4 homers came against the same pitcher -- Paul Foytack. I'm pretty sure Foytack was either a Tiger or a Whitehoser.

I got Foytack right. He broke in with Detroit, pitched for them from 1953-1962 and part of 1963, when he signed with Cowboy Gene. Essentially a .500 pitcher with very un-Koufax ERAs.

BTW, of the 4 occurences of 4 consecutive homers, Foytack was the only pitcher to serve up all four. And Sandy led the NL in ERA for 5 consecutive seasons. Gawd, he was good.

[JPinMaryland]

"Never thought it was Knoop who had the collision, though."

THen what did you mean when you said:

"I might actually be thinking of Bobby Knoop.."

If you werent thinking that Knoop replaced fregosi and you werent thinking Knoop had the collision then what role did he play in your thinking?

The reason I brought up the '64 season is that if you were thinking Knoop was somehow involved in Fregosi's debut, then Knoop arrived a little too late for that. That's the only reason I looked up Knoop's appearance.

This reminds me of one of Jim Bouton's stories, it's a pretty memorable one in the book. He tells about how manager Ralph Houk went over the Red Sox lineup with the Yanks before the game and he compared each position player to each guy on the Yanks..."They have Yasztremski we have Mantle so maybe there's a standoff there, they have Conigliaro we have Maris....Now, Jim Pagliaroni. Who the hell is Jim Pagliaroni?"

So Bouton says it broke everyone up and really made a pt. The only problem: if you go through all the players he names they didnt all play on the Red sox at the same time. I cant recall exactly which ones. I know he mentioned Pags and I know Pags is one that didnt match up with some of the others.

So you can tell Bouton is going from memory but he doesnt have perfect recall.

[bigmack]

BTW, of the 4 occurences of 4 consecutive homers, Foytack was the only pitcher to serve up all four. And Sandy led the NL in ERA for 5 consecutive seasons. Gawd, he was good.
That's the fact Bath -

You realize that Paulie doled out a boatload of walks huh?

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/pics/paul_foytack_autograph.jpg

[Bathless]

THen what did you mean when you said:

"I might actually be thinking of Bobby Knoop.."

If you werent thinking that Knoop replaced fregosi and you werent thinking Knoop had the collision then what role did he play in your thinking?


Hell, I don't even remember typing that. :lol: It's just that I associate Knoop with Fregosi (they were the DP combo for years). When someone mentioned Koppe, it sounded familiar, so I agreed. If they said Paul Waner, I might have agreed to that, too. :D

At the game, when they announced Fregosi, everyone in the crowd said 'Who?'

[bigmack]

Am I wrong in remembering the stances of yesteryear being wider than they are today?

http://www.autographedtoyou.com/celebpics/jim_fregosi2.jpg

[Bathless]

Getting back to plunks, there was a game at the Polo Grounds I saw on TV. Dad took us to a bunch of games at the Polo Grounds, but not this one. Just missed getting a HR ball in LF one time (about 247 feet, if I remember). Bad seats. Lots of pillars.

Anyway, back to plunks. Ruben Gomez of the Giants either threw at (or probably hit) big Joe Adcock of the Braves. Adcock went after him and Gomez does a dash straight into CF. Adcock stopped chasing him at around 2nd base, but Gomez kept going....right to the Braves clubhouse, which, at the Polo Grounds, was in straight CF about 800 feet away (OK, more like 500). I don't remember if Gomez ever returned that day -- I don't think he did. But I remember his exact quote in the papers when asked about it (that's right -- exact): "He catch me, he kill me".

Years later, we went to a Yankees - Angels game and Adcock is with LA. We got there very early, we were about as high up as you can get, and Adcock is in the middle of infield practice. The place is still totally empty and my buddy, who had an unbelievable set of lungs, yells: "Hey Adcock, look. Ruben Gomez. Ruben Gomez". Cracked him up.

Meanwhile, Piersall (now also an Angel), is out in CF shagging flies with 2 or 3 other guys. They were standing there together in a cluster fooling around and Piersall is calling them off every fly ball and catching them in his hat. Finally, when he's got them accustomed to his antics, he goes through his act again. He's yelling so loud, we can hear him all the way up top. Finally, when the ball is coming down, he walks away and it hit one of the other guys right in the shoulder. At which point Piersall convulses and is rolling on the grass.

This might have been the same night that Ford came out after one inning because of circulation problems in his pitching hand. Right near the end for Whitey. I remember Dooley Womack coming in to relieve him in the 2nd inning.

Also saw MLB in Jersey City, of all places. In '57, I think, the Dodgers played 7 home games in the Queen City of the East (Jackie Gleason???). O'Malley already had his bags packed for LA then. Saw Frank Robby get plunked in the noggin real bad. They wore the helmets with no ear flaps in those days and I think this one caught him right on the lower edge of the helmet. Don't remember who threw it. I remember Robby stood right on top of the plate and got hit a lot. Great player. And tough.

Also saw a bunch of IL games in JC. After Castro took over in Cuba, they moved the Reds IL team, the Havana Cubans, to New Jersey. This was kind of cool because a lot of guys would go back and forth to the big club. I remember Jim Pendleton, Cookie Rojas and Yoyo Davalillo from those teams. Saw them play the Miami Marlins a few times. Davalillo was memorable only because they called him Yoyo.

[Bathless]

Am I wrong in remembering the stances of yesteryear being wider than they are today?

http://www.autographedtoyou.com/celebpics/jim_fregosi2.jpg

Dunno. Ellie Howard had a big wide stance. I still can't understand how Pujols can hit from his stance. Spread out and crouched. Not to mention Bagwell.

Probably explains why I was never more than backup LF/C on my high school team.

[bigmack]

But I remember his exact quote in the papers when asked about it (that's right -- exact): "He catch me, he kill me".
:lol::lol:

Legend has it that in that game in mid-July '56 in the town that brews Schlitz, Gomez plunked Adcock in the wrist and as he was taking first they exchanged words and when Adcock ran @ Gomez he plunked him again on the thigh and then ran for the hills. So technically it was a double-plunk, scurry. Lest we forget that Gomez was fined $250 for the incident.

Cards Pitch, Sam Jones was laid-up in the hospital for a spell after being beaned in the coco by Gomez in '57.

[bigmack]

Plunks...

There's a few doozies in here including John Roseboro wanting to karate chop Juan Marichal if not for that pesky bat.

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/basebrawl.html

[Bathless]

From:

http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B07011NYA1962.htm

ANGELS 5TH: Averill grounded out (shortstop to first); Torres
grounded out (second to first); Koppe singled to shortstop; Lee
doubled to left [Koppe out at home (left to second to
catcher)]; Koppe carried off field on strecher; 0 R, 2 H,
0 E, 1 LOB. Angels 0, Yankees 1.

YANKEES 5TH: FREGOSI REPLACED KOPPE (PLAYING SS); Lopez grounded
out (third to first); Boyer singled to third; Bad hop;
Terry made an out to center; Tresh homered ;
Richardson made an out to left; 2 R, 2 H, 0 E, 0 LOB. Angels 0,
Yankees 3.

The poster who said it was not Fregosi's debut was correct. He had been up in 1961 and had played even more in 1962. But I had the collision and the [b]carried off on a stretcher part correct. And at least I'm sure I was at the friggin' game.

It's pretty amazing that the play-by-play of a game from 1962 is out there on the web.

Found the Reds vs. Dodgers game in Jersey City in 1957, but no Robby HBP. :mad: :confused: I think I need a rest.

[bigmack]

Here's some plunks and the ensuing brawls:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L32TtDEdVro

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/baseball/images/060328brawl.jpg

[bigmack]

Who the hell is Jim Pagliaroni?
JP - Know of any colorful stories of Pag?

http://www.brandx.net/pilots/paglbio.jpg

[JPinMaryland]

Bouton's book has a few. According to his book, Pags was the only celibate guy on the team....

The book (Ball Four) is funny like that. Bouton always maintained that people were pissed off at him for telling it the way it really was. Baseball players whoring around on the road and all that. ANd Bouton always bitched about how unfair they treated him not inviting him back to old timers games and such...

Except that's only part of what pissed people off. The other part is that BOuton always portrayed himself as a family man in the book when in fact he was a major playa. That's the great irony or rather great absurdity of Bouton, he could never bring himself to admit this. His wife wrote the answer to Ball Four in her own book. I forget the name. Mike Marshall tries to hit on her later on after her relationship w/ Bouton is over and she tells how self absorbed Marshall was. The weight lifting bit really clinches it.

They say they didnt lift weights back then Seaver and Marshall did.

Speaking of stories. My uncle played for Hagerstown (what would now be AA) in the late 1940s. He roomed with a guy named Boots Poffenberg, aka "The Little Dutchman who couldnt drink a drop." Odd nickname. Boots figures somewhat in Durocher's book, since Boots was eventually kicked off DUrochers team in the 1930s for gambling and drinking which is really saying something if you remember DUrocher. His suspension is noted in the Baseball Encyl.

Anyhow Boots would come out to the middle of town in Hagerstown and say "watch this" and proceed to sound off like a fire engine. Dogs would come running, little boys would come out to see what was happening, etc.

They had baseball annies in the minor leagues in them days, too. :ThmbUp: