There Is No War On Terror!

[StartedAt18]

There Is No War on Terror
By Robert Dreyfuss
TomPaine.com
Wednesday 13 September 2006

President George W. Bush, Vice President Cheney and the entire Republican election team are scrambling to make their so-called war on terror the focus of the next seven weeks. As in 2002 and 2004, they're counting on their ability to scare Americans with the al-Qaida bogeyman. And while the trauma of 9/11 has begun to dissipate and American voters seem less susceptible than ever to the scare tactics used by the White House, for the past five years the Democrats have been singularly unable to develop an effective counter to the Bush administration on terrorism. So, for that reason, here are 10 important facts about terrorism that opponents of President Bush should understand.

For the rest, click here:

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/09/13/there_is_no_war_on_terror.php

[Show Me the Wire]

"......they're counting on their ability to scare Americans with the al-Qaida bogeyman."

Do you think the Al Qaida organization itself is part and parcel of the bogeyman conspiracy? Or have you not heard or read any news within the last few days about Al Qaida's newest threats against the West?

[JustRalph]

Tell this guys family there is no Al Queda......you make me sick.........
http://www.newyorkmetro.com/images/news/02/03/911anniversary/wtc4_11_200.jpg

[ljb]

Jr,
Oh, the 9/11 card already. Wow, in times past this card was held until later in the game. Is this a sign of weakness in Jr's hand ?
Take two aspirin and call back in the morning.

[PlanB]

I'm hoping very hard that we leave the NYC WTC 9/11 horror alone. Period.
Re-affirming it, at its 5th anniversary, was a perfect END to its being dragged
out by pseudo politicians trying to prove every moronic point. It was awful,
but why keep wallowing in its grief?

[rastajenk]

Uhh, to keep it from happening again?

[Snag]

I'm hoping very hard that we leave the NYC WTC 9/11 horror alone. Period.
Re-affirming it, at its 5th anniversary, was a perfect END to its being dragged
out by pseudo politicians trying to prove every moronic point. It was awful,
but why keep wallowing in its grief?

We need to "keep wallowing in it..." because history has a way of repeating itself. I won't use 911. I'll just remind everyone that the same thing was said about Hilter and his march into Poland. Oh, he won't do that again. Well, he did. And if it isn't Al Queda, it could very well be Iran or someone else, so do use all a favor and go put your head in someone elses sandbox. By the way, I can think of 3000 "points" that are not moronic.

[BenDiesel26]

There Is No War on Terror
By Robert Dreyfuss
TomPaine.com
Wednesday 13 September 2006

President George W. Bush, Vice President Cheney and the entire Republican election team are scrambling to make their so-called war on terror the focus of the next seven weeks. As in 2002 and 2004, they're counting on their ability to scare Americans with the al-Qaida bogeyman. And while the trauma of 9/11 has begun to dissipate and American voters seem less susceptible than ever to the scare tactics used by the White House, for the past five years the Democrats have been singularly unable to develop an effective counter to the Bush administration on terrorism. So, for that reason, here are 10 important facts about terrorism that opponents of President Bush should understand.

For the rest, click here:

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/09/13/there_is_no_war_on_terror.php

al Qaeda threat to 'slit throats of worshippers of the cross' (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=405758&in_page_id=1811&ico=Homepage&icl=TabModule&icc=NEWS&ct=5)

al Qaeda calls for Muslims to leave US in anticipation of attack (http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52018)

Open up your eyes please. Those articles are just from the past couple of days. This occurs on almost a daily basis.

[46zilzal]

again and again the trump card is played.

[ljb]

We need to "keep wallowing in it..." because history has a way of repeating itself. I won't use 911. I'll just remind everyone that the same thing was said about Hilter and his march into Poland. Oh, he won't do that again. Well, he did. And if it isn't Al Queda, it could very well be Iran or someone else, so do use all a favor and go put your head in someone elses sandbox. By the way, I can think of 3000 "points" that are not moronic.
Well if we are going to "keep wallowing in it" we should get someone in charge that knows how to re-act to it.
We had most of the world behind us on 9/12. Our leaders wasted the world support we had by going off topic and invading Iraq. What ever happened to Osama bin forgotten anyway ? :D

[rastajenk]

Another myth in the liberal pantheon of Convenient Delusions. Most of the world's sympathy had been spent by 9/13.

[JustRalph]

some seem to forget that "most of the world" has been against us since the 1700's......... don't ever forget those wingnuts dancing in the street and throwing candy to the kids on Sept 11th

trying to convince the U.S. public that there is no terrorist threat........is stupid. And it helps advance the agenda of the terrorists

[kenwoodallpromos]

again and again the trump card is played.
Funny! (But that does not look like Monica and Bill!) But the words fit!

[kenwoodallpromos]

al Qaeda threat to 'slit throats of worshippers of the cross' (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=405758&in_page_id=1811&ico=Homepage&icl=TabModule&icc=NEWS&ct=5)

al Qaeda calls for Muslims to leave US in anticipation of attack (http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52018)

Open up your eyes please. Those articles are just from the past couple of days. This occurs on almost a daily basis.
_________________
Thank you Ben- and I agree completely with Al Quiddddda on this point- ALL MUSLIMS SHOULD LEAVE THE USA IMMEDIATELY!LOL!
(I'm really glad he is calling for Muslim terrorists also to leave the USA!)!!LOL!
This is why the bad guys will lose the war of terror- they are even bigger morons than Bush, and proven liars in their threats!

[Bala]

The fruits of terror are evident all over the streets of ghetto America. Warlords of many strips {not only Islam} are actively engaged in selling drugs and guns to our youths. East Asia and narco terrorist have allied themselves a long time ago to fund their worldwide operations.

Neither party chooses properly secure our borders. And our ports are in even worse condition then 20 years ago. Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms Bureau estimates that 10,000 {ten thousand} pounds of narcotics cross our borders and ports every day!!!

That to me is a lost war on terror. But wait, what am I saying, after all these kinds of people are expendable.


_________________
Outsource congress.

[JustRalph]

The fruits of terror are evident all over the streets of ghetto America. Warlords of many strips {not only Islam} are actively engaged in selling drugs and guns to our youths. East Asia and narco terrorist have allied themselves a long time ago to fund their worldwide operations.

Neither party chooses properly secure our borders. And our ports are in even worse condition then 20 years ago. Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms Bureau estimates that 10,000 {ten thousand} pounds of narcotics cross our borders and ports every day!!!

That to me is a lost war on terror. But wait, what am I saying, after all these kinds of people are expendable.


_________________
Outsource congress.

You make yourself expendable when you partake in the commerce of drugs.

I assume that you would support my plan to deploy helicopter gunships to rid the corners of crack dealers?

You may also support my plan to use hellfire missiles on crack houses........

What say you?

[46zilzal]

yes lets kill people in the streets with random explosions and gunfire. that would solve a lot.

[JustRalph]

yes lets kill people in the streets with random explosions and gunfire. that would solve a lot.

Where in the hell does it say "random" in my post?

[46zilzal]

Where in the hell does it say "random" in my post?
missles and gun ships are accurate?

[BenDiesel26]

yes lets kill people in the streets with random explosions and gunfire. that would solve a lot.

That's what the Muslims do in most of the Middle Eastern countries.

[chickenhead]

After watching a program the other day on the ATF debacle in Waco, I don't think they should have water pistols, much less missiles.

[skate]

hey hey hey, who needs scary tactics with the likes of , slurry kerry, whats a murtha- wurtha, snore gore, they already have home- grown -scary built in...

[lsbets]

missles and gun ships are accurate?

Yes, very.

[PaceAdvantage]

Well if we are going to "keep wallowing in it" we should get someone in charge that knows how to re-act to it.


Whatcha mean? USA and GWB TERROR FREE since 9/11/01!!!

That's a fairly good indication that they knew how to react.....best indicator that I am aware of....

[PaceAdvantage]

That's what the Muslims do in most of the Middle Eastern countries.

And yet I don't think there is one thread on this entire board started by 46 or any of the other "horsemen" decrying any of the violence perpetrated by Muslims in the Middle East over the 7+ years PaceAdvantage.Com has existed....

[46zilzal]

what would we do without a bogey man? Who could we blame?

[Light]

The roots of terrorism are rooted in U.S. middle eastern policy,the master terrorist.

[chickenhead]

The roots of terrorism are rooted in U.S. middle eastern policy,the master terrorist.

and the pope, don't forget him.

[kenwoodallpromos]

missles and gun ships are accurate?
___________
Yes, OURS are! 1981-1984, USS San Diego, 2-3" guns. 1984-1986, USS Enterprise, a couple of missles and enough nukes to level IRAN.
"Gun ships" is kind of an old term when talking about the 2 1/2 " and above guns. Missles of the Cruise classification and newer are the real weopon of choice nowadays, and almost all warships have helo pads and can be used to transfer ammo and supplies and can be used as a launch platform for the helos.
"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otobreda_76_mm":
This 76 MM gun is the only one left that can really be used for attacking ground targets, and as you will see only CG and Perry-class frigates have them.
Therefoire if we attack Iran from sea nukes are the best option now!

[Snag]

The roots of terrorism are rooted in U.S. middle eastern policy,the master terrorist.

The roots are rooted.......?

Any proof you want to offer that is the basis for your silly statement or is it just President Bush's fault again?

[Tom]

You wnat a manual od death - read the koran.

Now, let's play a little numbers game.
Eveybody get comfy.
I'll mention an event in the history of terrorism, and you tell me how many weeks from that one until the next one carried out on US soil or foreign stations.

9-11.

Hands?

Anyone?

Come on, somebody....

Oh, wait....there hasn't been one yet.
Very good class.

Now, the 1993 attack on the WTC.

How many week after that.

Sec?
Hcap?
Light?

You guys getting the hang of this game yet?

[Light]

All captured terrorists have claimed the reason they do what they do is not ideology,but U.S. foreign policy.

[BenDiesel26]

All captured terrorists have claimed the reason they do what they do is not ideology,but U.S. foreign policy.

Interesting. Can you direct me to this link of where you can read all of the classified information from the interrogation of these captured terrorists. Or have you spoken to some that have been released and are living normal lives in the United States. According to interviews with former Islamic terrorists that have converted to Christianity on news shows, they are taught at an early age that Jews are pigs and Christians are swine and that they are destined to be martyrs. Maybe they are lying! Thanks in advance.

Ben

[Snag]

All captured terrorists have claimed the reason they do what they do is not ideology,but U.S. foreign policy.

All. Really? Want to back that statement up with some facts?

You can't! Do you even think about what you say before you pound the keyboard?

[Tom]

That's why I like to torture them.
They are insignificant infidels to the west.
The oil god demands we kill them.
It is the will of a fuel's god.

[JustRalph]

All captured terrorists have claimed the reason they do what they do is not ideology,but U.S. foreign policy.

oh yeah? What did the dead ones have to say? Those are the only ones I am interested in .............

Then again, those CIA guys are making them talk all the time..........now if Congress would get off their asses or just shut the hell up we could hear much more from them.........

Waterboarding for all terrorists!

[Secretariat]

Whatcha mean? USA and GWB TERROR FREE since 9/11/01!!!

That's a fairly good indication that they knew how to react.....best indicator that I am aware of....

That is not techincally accurate. There were numerous anthrax letter mailings AFTER 09/11/01. This terrorist like Bin Laden has never been caught by this administration and convicted.

[Bala]

JustRalph - why don't we bring our troops back from the 40 countries we are in now and secure our borders and ports? In the long run, all taxpayers pay for our failed war on drugs. Why do we insist on defending other nations borders but not our own???

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,214313,00.html?sPage=fnc.national/crime


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,199728,00.html?sPage=fnc.specialsections/immigration

_________________
Outsource congress.

[PaceAdvantage]

The roots of terrorism are rooted in U.S. middle eastern policy,the master terrorist.

Actually, I believe the roots of terrorism are more "rooted" in the fact that most Middle Easterners live under oppressive theocracies or monarchies and thus many are poor and PISSED OFF! One of the only ways "out" of this oppression and poverty is to join the American equivalent of inner-city GANGS -->> thug terrorist networks such as Al-Qaeda or Hezbollah....

Has little or nothing to do with U.S. Middle Eastern policy....let's be honest here bubby.....

[PaceAdvantage]

That is not techincally accurate. There were numerous anthrax letter mailings AFTER 09/11/01. This terrorist like Bin Laden has never been caught by this administration and convicted.

You are correct....I will amend:

USA and GWB -- TERROR FREE since 2001

That's more than I can say for a lot of other nations....and we're supposed to be at the top of their hit list....

[PaceAdvantage]

All captured terrorists have claimed the reason they do what they do is not ideology,but U.S. foreign policy.

That's the propaganda machine talking. You know what that is, right? You accuse the US Gov't of being a big ol' propaganda machine. Works both ways, dontcha know?

[rastajenk]

Is Islamic terrorism in Thailand, the Philippines, Indonesia, the Sudan, Kashmir, and Nigeria rooted in U.S. foreign policy?

[JustRalph]

JustRalph - why don't we bring our troops back from the 40 countries we are in now and secure our borders and ports? In the long run, all taxpayers pay for our failed war on drugs. Why do we insist on defending other nations borders but not our own???

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,214313,00.html?sPage=fnc.national/crime


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,199728,00.html?sPage=fnc.specialsections/immigration
Outsource congress.

It wouldn't take that many troops........not to mention it would be illegal unless a war was declared. But I am all for it. I am all for a giant friggin mine field too. How about we actually enforce the rules saying you can't hire illegals ? Really dedicate ourselves to shutting down businesses that hire illegals and they will stop hiring them. This removes the economic incentive for them to come to the u.s. illegally........then we won't have to replace very many mines.

[ljb]

Actually, I believe the roots of terrorism are more "rooted" in the fact that most Middle Easterners live under oppressive theocracies or monarchies and thus many are poor and PISSED OFF! One of the only ways "out" of this oppression and poverty is to join the American equivalent of inner-city GANGS -->> thug terrorist networks such as Al-Qaeda or Hezbollah....

Has little or nothing to do with U.S. Middle Eastern policy....let's be honest here bubby.....
And I believe the U.S. has been accused of supporting these theocracies, monarchies. Hencth the hatred of U.S. Saudi and the Shah of Iran and Kuwait are a few that come to mind. (Shah long gone but they seem to have long memories).

[lsbets]

Curious ljb, could you tell me what impact our support for the Emir of Kuwait has had on our perception in Kuwait. Its hard to find a country where Americans are more loved than Kuwait, so I'd love to find out what you know that I don't. Or did you just throw out Kuwait because you heard of it and thought it would make you sound like you knew what you were talking about? :lol: :lol:

[Lefty]

That is not techincally accurate. There were numerous anthrax letter mailings AFTER 09/11/01. This terrorist like Bin Laden has never been caught by this administration and convicted.
Because we were on alert nobody died from these Anthrax mailings that I can remember.
No we didn't get Bin Ladin but we got him holed up in a cave. What a life!

[Lefty]

All captured terrorists have claimed the reason they do what they do is not ideology,but U.S. foreign policy.
There was a tape released just recently that said something like if we in the U.S. didn't convert to Islam we were doomed. Nary a mention of foreign policy. Hmmm...

[46zilzal]

No we didn't get Bin Ladin but we got him holed up in a cave. What a life!
really? all reports I have heard say NO ONE knows where this fellow is.

[Lefty]

I can't believe we've had all these attacks on our embassies, on our ships, our World Trade Center, In Madrid, In London, all around the world and there are idiots that think we made it all up? Unfriggibblvble!

[Lefty]

really? all reports I have heard say NO ONE knows where this fellow is.
You should get a better news source. Conventional wisdom blves he's holed up in a cave in Pakistan.
Common sense says, If you don't know where he is, as you say, then he must be holed up somerwhere. He's not walking the hillsides listening to the "Sound Of Music" like during the Clinton Admin.

[46zilzal]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A35711-2004Dec4.html



funny line as well "The devil came here yesterday," Chavez said. "He came here talking as if he were the owner of the world."

[Lefty]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A35711-2004Dec4.html



funny line as well "The devil came here yesterday," Chavez said. "He came here talking as if he were the owner of the world."
There ya go again zilly, condemning the Leader of the FRee world and getting off on what a dictator says.
And as to your article, I said, Common sense, of which you seem to be suspect, dictates, that if we don't know where he is, we must of forced him to hiding; ypu know, scared to show his face.

[Lefty]

zilly asks, "Just Where is that?"
FOX NEWS, Zilly. Where you get conservatives, independents and liberals all coming together to debate.
Fair and balanced, BUT I know you libs had unfair and unbalanced to your side for so long, yuh just hate FAIR AND BALANCED, and I love you hating it, I do, I do.

[Snag]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A35711-2004Dec4.html

funny line as well "The devil came here yesterday," Chavez said. "He came here talking as if he were the owner of the world."

46, why would you think the line was funny? This jerk is just as bad as the idiot in Iran and you think he is funny? He hates President Bush as much as you do so I'm not surprised at his statement. Maybe you should consider changing your tag to 46Chavez. Now that would be funny.

[46zilzal]

funny is simply funny. nothing more. nothing less

[46zilzal]

watch the documentary Outfoxed: all scripted.

[Light]

Interesting. Can you direct me to this link of where you can read all of the classified information from the interrogation of these captured terrorists.

All. Really? Want to back that statement up with some
facts?

oh yeah?

That's the propaganda machine talking.

I can ask you all for proof to back up your propagandistic,illusions. Suffice it to say that Bin laden himself has been quoted that he launched 9/11 as payback to the U.S. supported Israeli bombings in Beirut in 1982.

Speaking of lies, you all believed Iraq and Saddam were as big a threat as the Bush Administration wanted you to believe. There's no excuse here with false info,cause alot of people saw through those lies. Now you believe the same lies about Iran. And you continuue to believe the fairy tales about Muslims when you probably never even met one. Tell me,if Muslims are fighting a so called "holy war",why have they waited till the creation and support of Israel by the U.S. and Britain and the abuses they have taken from the west when their ideology goes back well before the creation of the United States itself.You ignore the obvious and practical and believe in hoaxes.

[Lefty]

watch the documentary Outfoxed: all scripted.
And all proven bogus as MM's films.
Zilly, I actually watch Fox, and I think for myself, and when I see gaggles of libs constantly getting to put forth their views along with condervatives and ind. I can SEE that it's fair and balanced. So who should I blve, a "hit piece" or my lying eyes, hmmm?
And when I watch the mainstream news, attack conservatives and toss softballs at liberals and put forth forged documents and not one network would not give the Swiftboat Vets a minute of time , once again, do I blve you or my lying eyes?

[Lefty]

funny is simply funny. nothing more. nothing less
Well, Zilly, what's funny to some is not funny to others, and that's because of different perspectives and viewpoints. You think it's funny cause you hate Bush. I think it's not funny cause I hate dictators and threats to my country.

[46zilzal]

And all proven bogus as MM's films.

Only problem is that all the reporters interviewed HAD been members of the FOX news staff
http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=104288

[lsbets]

And you continuue to believe the fairy tales about Muslims when you probably never even met one.

I've met lots of Muslims, up close and personal - some good, some not so good. Were any of them your relatives? :lol:

[Snag]

Tell me,if Muslims are fighting a so called "holy war",why have they waited till the creation and support of Israel by the U.S. and Britain and the abuses they have taken from the west when their ideology goes back well before the creation of the United States itself.You ignore the obvious and practical and believe in hoaxes.

So, if the US, Britain, and Israel were not around, the Muslims would not be at war? From your position, we are at fault because they were here "first"?

[BenDiesel26]

I can ask you all for proof to back up your propagandistic,illusions. Suffice it to say that Bin laden himself has been quoted that he launched 9/11 as payback to the U.S. supported Israeli bombings in Beirut in 1982.

Speaking of lies, you all believed Iraq and Saddam were as big a threat as the Bush Administration wanted you to believe. There's no excuse here with false info,cause alot of people saw through those lies. Now you believe the same lies about Iran. And you continuue to believe the fairy tales about Muslims when you probably never even met one. Tell me,if Muslims are fighting a so called "holy war",why have they waited till the creation and support of Israel by the U.S. and Britain and the abuses they have taken from the west when their ideology goes back well before the creation of the United States itself.You ignore the obvious and practical and believe in hoaxes.

You made the statement, we asked for proof. If you want me to prove that I asked for proof I suppose that I could simply direct you to my previous post. For your proof, you might as well put quotations around what you said and your name after it, because thats where the info came from.

So is there a link for the interrogations of these captured terrorists saying this? You didn't provide one. You make this stuff up in your head and actually convince yourself of this crap contrary to what is right in front of your face. Is it really propaganda if I take what the terrorists are saying at their word? I provided two links at the beginning of this thread, one where al qaeda states they will not stop until the whole world has converted to islam and another where they say that they will slit the throats of all those who worship the cross. This has nothing to do with foreign policy. The only real propaganda is what the governments of these other countries spew to their citizens and children at young ages to turn them into suicide bombers. I have to ask, do you live in one of these countries, or do you live in the US where you can get direcTV and actually watch as many news channels as you please.

As for believing that Iraq and Saddam were as big a threat as the Bush administration had me believe, I think for myself. Iraq was months away from having a nuclear bomb in 1991. The Clinton administration also believed their were links between al qaeda and Iraq in terms of possibly harboring Bin Laden and making weapons of mass destruction. Want proof? Go read pages 134 and 138 of the 9-11 commission report (I believe those are the pages).

You're right about Muslims ideology going back way before the US and Israel were created. It actually goes back hundreds of years ago when they also attempted to sweep across Europe and convert all the followers of other faiths by the sword. Don't be caught mentioning this in public though, the radical sect of the religion will bomb your house, rape your mother, and chop your head off. The will bomb your churches, riot, and burn effigies of you in the middle of the street. That is what they are doing now anyway. Or they will convert you to Islam and gunpoint like they did to the two captured fox news reporters. Bin Laden would chop your head off in an instant even if he had no clue that you were not American, as long as he knew that you didn't believe in Islam.

[JustRalph]

what are the odds that 46 would side with a communist.........I have tried real hard here to ignore 46, but this is too much..........

Remember, don't buy anything from Citgo.......the money goes right in Chavez pockets.......

[rastajenk]

Especially after his charming performance this morning. (http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=22648_Chavez_Spews_Hatred_at_UN&only)


Meanwhile, the DUmmies cheer him on. (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2521146) No wonder they lose elections so regularly.

[46zilzal]

Isn't it interesting when more and more people, even the nutbars, see that the KING is wearing no clothes?

and this from that KING: "The goals of this country is to enhance prosperity and peace."
White House Conference on Global Literacy, New York, New York, Sep. 18, 2006

[Snag]

Isn't it interesting when more and more people, even the nutbars, see that the KING is wearing no clothes?

and this from that KING: "The goals of this country is to enhance prosperity and peace."
White House Conference on Global Literacy, New York, New York, Sep. 18, 2006

From my house of common sense: "Me thinks you are silly and rude".

[kenwoodallpromos]

Started with Israel? Says who?
http://www.cqpress.com/context/articles/epr_islam.html
According to this link, the major intrusion into the middle east by Europe was a result of the Ottomans fighting WW1 on the losing side.

[Light]

You made the statement, we asked for proof. If you want me to prove that I asked for proof I suppose that I could simply direct you to my previous post. For your proof, you might as well put quotations around what you said and your name after it, because thats where the info came from.

Bin laden's quote is not good enough for you? Many conservative news broadcasts bring up the issue of motive after a terrorist attack. After the london scare this summer no less than 3 news stations mentioned this.I do remeber ABC and the BBC specifically.They reported that everytime a terrorist is interrogated,they cite political,not ideological reasons as motive. Specifically(regarding London) a couple of "Terrorists" cited Britains middle east policy and more specifically allowing planes filled with WMD's for Israeli use on civilians in Beirut to be refueled at London airports.Maybe you were in the toilet when these things were broadcast.Or maybe you just watch FOX. I can't help that.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Wikipedia:

"Ottoman-German Alliance is the alliance established between Ottoman Empire (Turkey) and German Empire before World War I. There was a party in Turkey in favour of alliance with the Allied powers, but, it was impossible to reconcile an alliance with ****France with France's ally being Russia, the long time enemy of the Ottoman Empire."
It was France's fault!

[Show Me the Wire]

Wikipedia:

"Ottoman-German Alliance is the alliance established between Ottoman Empire (Turkey) and German Empire before World War I. There was a party in Turkey in favour of alliance with the Allied powers, but, it was impossible to reconcile an alliance with ****France with France's ally being Russia, the long time enemy of the Ottoman Empire."
It was France's fault!

And it still is, those Imperial colonial swines.

[Snag]

Bin laden's quote is not good enough for you? Many conservative news broadcasts bring up the issue of motive after a terrorist attack. After the london scare this summer no less than 3 news stations mentioned this.I do remeber ABC and the BBC specifically.They reported that everytime a terrorist is interrogated,they cite political,not ideological reasons as motive. Specifically(regarding London) a couple of "Terrorists" cited Britains middle east policy and more specifically allowing planes filled with WMD's for Israeli use on civilians in Beirut to be refueled at London airports.Maybe you were in the toilet when these things were broadcast.Or maybe you just watch FOX. I can't help that.

You still don't get it Light. You said ALL terrorists cite political reasons and that was not true.

[BenDiesel26]

Light,

Let me get this straight.

1. Are you saying that all of the violence in the middle east has everything to do with US foreign policy and has absolutely NOTHING to do with a backwards way of thinking that takes a radical interpretation of the Koran? Your answer to this question will speak volumes about your intelligence.

2. Are you condoning these acts of violence? According to ljb or hcap or whoever said it, 99% of the 1.4 billion Muslims in the world thinks these acts are haneous, but you think they are ok because they are just fighting the 'Great Satan.'

In fact, any civilized human being can see that the words and actions of the terrorists are absolutely ridiculous. But to you, they are the result of foreign policy. To YOU they are, because it doesn't matter what al qaeda (one of the actual terrorist groups) says that they have ambitions for Islam to take over the world and that they will not stop until they slit the throats of all worshippers of the cross. That has no religious meaning to you. These attackers have nothing to do with religion when they vow to blow up Christian churches due to the Pope's third person reading of a centuries old quote or wipe Israel off the map because the Jews are dirty pigs. You want Israel off the map because according to you, Islam was not a religion of violence until Israel came about.

Why don't you go research Islam? Then come back and tell me that these acts of violence and ambitions to spread their faith by the sword and kill all infidels only began to happen after the creation of Israel and their garnered support of the UK and the US. Also, explain to me all of the terrorist acts by radical Islam in Turkey, Pakistan, Thailand, etc. Did the captured terrorists there also state that they attacked innocent people because of US foreign policy?

[Lefty]

Only problem is that all the reporters interviewed HAD been members of the FOX news staff
http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=104288
That doesn't mean anything except maybe they're disgruntled. Are you telling me when I see all these liberals being given equal opportunity to espouse their views that i'm not seeing what i'm seeing? I like to make my own decisions and after watching Fox for 2 yrs and having watched the mainstream over 40 yrs, i like what i'm seeing on Fox. Quit relying on others zilly, open your mind and decide for yourself, if you can.

[Lefty]

Isn't it interesting when more and more people, even the nutbars, see that the KING is wearing no clothes?

and this from that KING: "The goals of this country is to enhance prosperity and peace."
White House Conference on Global Literacy, New York, New York, Sep. 18, 2006
Isn't it interesting that you don't seem to have an original thght; just constantly quoting catch-phrases and lib blogs?

[JustRalph]

Bin laden's quote is not good enough for you? Many conservative news broadcasts bring up the issue of motive after a terrorist attack. After the london scare this summer no less than 3 news stations mentioned this.I do remeber ABC and the BBC specifically.They reported that everytime a terrorist is interrogated,they cite political,not ideological reasons as motive. Specifically(regarding London) a couple of "Terrorists" cited Britains middle east policy and more specifically allowing planes filled with WMD's for Israeli use on civilians in Beirut to be refueled at London airports.Maybe you were in the toilet when these things were broadcast.Or maybe you just watch FOX. I can't help that.

What you dont' seem to understand is; you don't let shitwad terrorists from backwards ass countries where women are tortured every day, and honor killings occur on a regular basis, influence American or British policy. We don't care what you and your brethren think? You don't rate consideration. You wouldn't be shit if you didn't sit on a pile of oil. I hope that I live to see the day when we don't need you dickheads for oil.

Let me put this another way. You aren't a pimple on the ass of the world, except for the oil. Name one great invention by an Arab? How about one thing that comes from the middle east that is better than anything else in the world? yeah, don't hurt yourself. So shut the hell up about policies being the cause of terrorism. You are full of it. We don't care what you think. Isn't it friggin obvious where you fit in ?

[Tom]

Curious ljb, could you tell me what impact our support for the Emir of Kuwait has had on our perception in Kuwait. Its hard to find a country where Americans are more loved than Kuwait, so I'd love to find out what you know that I don't. Or did you just throw out Kuwait because you heard of it and thought it would make you sound like you knew what you were talking about? :lol: :lol:

He should go there - I hear the PERCH are huge, and liberal. They bite on anything! :D

[Tom]

A head of cabbage said:
"Funny line as well "The devil came here yesterday," Chavez said. "He came here talking as if he were the owner of the world."

Chavez doens't have a good voice for public speaking - he has spent far too many hours puffing on an old Cuban.

:eek:

[Tom]

what are the odds that 46 would side with a communist.........I have tried real hard here to ignore 46, but this is too much..........

Remember, don't buy anything from Citgo.......the money goes right in Chavez pockets.......

It's EASY!

[JustRalph]

he was right...........the devil was there yesterday..........
http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,552636,00.jpg

[Light]

Light,

Let me get this straight.

1. Are you saying that all of the violence in the middle east has everything to do with US foreign policy and has absolutely NOTHING to do with a backwards way of thinking that takes a radical interpretation of the Koran? Your answer to this question will speak volumes about your intelligence.

Yes. Primarily Muslims who are being killed in Iraq,Palestinian territories,Afhanistan,Lebanon,have all been killed by wmd's made in America. If you think that has nothing to do with their hatred of the west,you DONT need a labotomy. You allready have one.Of course they curse the U.S. and Israel,just like Americans curse the perpetrators of 9/11.

2. Are you condoning these acts of violence? According to ljb or hcap or whoever said it, 99% of the 1.4 billion Muslims in the world thinks these acts are haneous, but you think they are ok because they are just fighting the 'Great Satan.'

No I don't condone their acts of violence,or their methods of achieving their goals,but I do agree with alot of their points.However,Americans won't bat an eye when Muslims are killed. You're no better than they are.

You want Israel off the map because according to you, Islam was not a religion of violence until Israel came about.


Where did I say I want Israel off the map?

Why don't you go research Islam?

The Koran is open to interpretation as is the Bible. And like the Bible,the words to the Koran were not written until over a 100 years after the death of Mohammed. Accuracy is certainly suspect.

[Light]

What you dont' seem to understand is; you don't let shitwad terrorists from backwards ass countries where women are tortured every day, and honor killings occur on a regular basis, influence American or British policy. We don't care what you and your brethren think? You don't rate consideration. You wouldn't be shit if you didn't sit on a pile of oil. I hope that I live to see the day when we don't need you dickheads for oil.

Let me put this another way. You aren't a pimple on the ass of the world, except for the oil. Name one great invention by an Arab? How about one thing that comes from the middle east that is better than anything else in the world? yeah, don't hurt yourself. So shut the hell up about policies being the cause of terrorism. You are full of it. We don't care what you think. Isn't it friggin obvious where you fit in ?

You are exhibiting alot of tension. I would suggest you try getting laid.

[JustRalph]

You are exhibiting alot of tension. I would suggest you try getting laid.

very funny, is that all you can come up with. Loser.

[PaceAdvantage]

Speaking of lies, you all believed Iraq and Saddam were as big a threat as the Bush Administration wanted you to believe.No I didn't. I believed Bush was selling something, and he sold it effectively, as the vote to go into Iraq proves....

Did I believe he was wrong to sell it hard? No, because I thought going into Iraq was the right move, regardless of the reason.

Don't sit there and try and tell me what I did and did not believe. In your world, everyone must be five years old.

There's no excuse here with false info,cause alot of people saw through those lies.They weren't lies, they were a hard sell based on semi-faulty info. There is a difference.

Now you believe the same lies about Iran.I do? How do you know? I can't remember the last time I commented on a post concerning Iran. You must be psychic.

And you continuue to believe the fairy tales about Muslims when you probably never even met one.Now, this one deserves the BELLY LAUGH icon. I WISH we had fairy tales to believe in when it comes to Islamic Muslim TERRORISTS. Instead, what we have, is a NIGHTMARE REALITY. You get no wiggle room here. The reaction to the Pope is proof positive, but of course, there has been ample other REAL evidence....we don't need the irrational and dangerous reaction to the Pope to show us what's really at the heart of this segment of the Muslim population (note, I did not lump all Muslims together).

[46zilzal]

form the New York Times in response to the Devil statement:"The moment may not become as famous as Nikita Khrushchev’s finger-wagging, shoe-thumping outbursts in the General Assembly in the cold-war era, but it still produced chuckles and some applause in the assembly hall."

Others laughed as well.

[PaceAdvantage]

Why would any American put any stock into what Chavez has to say? He's a non-factor in the world. Another loudmouth with some oil, but again, pretty much a non-factor.

In the grand scheme of things, his words mean about as much as a piece of shrimp shit at the bottom of the Pacific.

[46zilzal]

Why would any American put any stock into what Chavez has to say? He's a non-factor in the world. Another loudmouth with some oil, but again, pretty much a non-factor.

In the grand scheme of things, his words mean about as much as a piece of shrimp shit at the bottom of the Pacific.
I agree

[Light]

In your world, everyone must be five years old.

From what I see on a political level,that's very true.


I do? How do you know? I can't remember the last time I commented on a post concerning Iran. You must be psychic.

Do I really need to be psychic to guess your position on Iran? Prove me wrong. Please.

I WISH we had fairy tales to believe in when it comes to Islamic Muslim TERRORISTS. Instead, what we have, is a NIGHTMARE REALITY. You get no wiggle room here. The reaction to the Pope is proof positive...

What if the Pope said Judaism sucks. Jews killed Jesus. Oh,I thought only Muslims get mad. Not only would there be mass demonstrations televised on every TV station in the country,those demonstrations against the pope would be praised rather than criticized.The pope would be called a Nazi and all the O'Reilly types would agree and the Pope would have to kiss Jewish ass.Popes dont criticize ruling powers.Did the Pope of WW2 ever criticize Hitler?

[PaceAdvantage]

Yes, I'm sure the Jews would be calling for the assassination of the Pope, plus they'd be shooting nuns in the back of the head as revenge....yup....

However, all this is MOOT, since the Pope did NOT say Islam sucked.....

So, please set that spinometer of yours in a different direction.....this dog don't hunt.....

[ljb]

Why would any American put any stock into what Chavez has to say? He's a non-factor in the world. Another loudmouth with some oil, but again, pretty much a non-factor.

In the grand scheme of things, his words mean about as much as a piece of shrimp shit at the bottom of the Pacific.
Do shrimps shit shit ?
Just curious.

[ljb]

Curious ljb, could you tell me what impact our support for the Emir of Kuwait has had on our perception in Kuwait. Its hard to find a country where Americans are more loved than Kuwait, so I'd love to find out what you know that I don't. Or did you just throw out Kuwait because you heard of it and thought it would make you sound like you knew what you were talking about? :lol: :lol:
ls,
My mention of Kuwait was in reply to PA's comment regarding monarchies in the mideast. Is Kuwait a monarchy or not ? I know what I am talking about perhaps you should try to understand before replying with such inane comments.
http://Kinkyforgov.com Yehaww !!!

[BenDiesel26]

From what I see on a political level,that's very true.




Do I really need to be psychic to guess your position on Iran? Prove me wrong. Please.



What if the Pope said Judaism sucks. Jews killed Jesus. Oh,I thought only Muslims get mad. Not only would there be mass demonstrations televised on every TV station in the country,those demonstrations against the pope would be praised rather than criticized.The pope would be called a Nazi and all the O'Reilly types would agree and the Pope would have to kiss Jewish ass.Popes dont criticize ruling powers.Did the Pope of WW2 ever criticize Hitler?

You do realize that this is the 21st century don't you? I guarantee you their would be no bombing of Christian churches by Jews or burning of effigies of the Pope in the street or calls for the execution of the Pope by the Jews or calls by the Jews that all worshippers of the cross be executed till the day that Judaism takes over the world. That is the result of the backwards ass civilizations that still think that they live in Biblical times. And newsflash, I am not talking about the Jews.

[BenDiesel26]

Yes. Primarily Muslims who are being killed in Iraq,Palestinian territories,Afhanistan,Lebanon,have all been killed by wmd's made in America. If you think that has nothing to do with their hatred of the west,you DONT need a labotomy. You allready have one.Of course they curse the U.S. and Israel,just like Americans curse the perpetrators of 9/11.



No I don't condone their acts of violence,or their methods of achieving their goals,but I do agree with alot of their points.However,Americans won't bat an eye when Muslims are killed. You're no better than they are.




Where did I say I want Israel off the map?



The Koran is open to interpretation as is the Bible. And like the Bible,the words to the Koran were not written until over a 100 years after the death of Mohammed. Accuracy is certainly suspect.

You are right primarily Muslims are being killed in those countries as we speak today. But are they being killed by American weapons? About 99% of the killings of those Muslims that will happen today or this week or this month are actually being carried out by other Muslims that are putting bombs in cars or strapping them to their own chest. These bombs are not coming from America. Al qaeda kills thousands of Muslims in the Middle East every week, but then blames America for the genocide of these Muslims. I guess that some of these wackos in the US that kill their families would have justification to blame you because they don't agree with something you said.

Americans won't bat an eye when Muslims are killed? Maybe because most Muslims are being killed by other Muslims. What are we supposed to think about that? Some Americans like you won't bat an eye when there are Muslims that want to wipe every Jew, Christian, and American off the face of the earth. You 'agree with some of their points' though. They stand against everything America stands for, freedom of religion, religious tolerance/equality, freedom of speech/expression, separation of church and state, equality for women, etc. etc. etc. But you 'agree with some of their points.' I also recommend that you go on youtube and search for the movie Pallywood so you can see just how bad Israel is 'slaughtering' these Palestineans. It has been posted in another thread somewhere around here.

And lastly, when I told you to go research the history of Islam, I wasn't necessarily talking about the Koran. I was actually talking about the events in World History that occurred hundreds of years ago that STILL ARE OCCURRING today. These people are living in civilizations dated hundreds of years because of their own governments fund terrorism and have perverted beliefs of Islamic domination rather than looking towards the problems in their own countries and bettering their own lands. They are incapable of this and it has nothing to do with America or Israel.

[Light]

Yes, I'm sure the Jews would be calling for the assassination of the Pope, plus they'd be shooting nuns in the back of the head as revenge....yup....
....

I guarantee you their would be no bombing of Christian churches by Jews or burning of effigies of the Pope in the street or calls for the execution of the Pope by the Jews

When Hezbollah kidnapped 2 Israeli soldiers and Israel reacted without warning by pulverizing Lebanon,displacing 1 million people,creating an environmental disaster,and killing a thousand people,that's O.K.That's not an overreaction.Oh no theses are Jews. They can do no wrong.But demonstrations, to having your religion insulted in front of a worldwide audience is not O.K.for Muslims.You have flagrant double standards on acceptable behaviour. One for Jews,one for Muslims.

[Light]

But are they being killed by American weapons? About 99% of the killings of those Muslims that will happen today or this week or this month are actually being carried out by other Muslims that are putting bombs in cars or strapping them to their own chest.

In Iraq 140k Iraqis have died. We know U.S. weapons killed the earlier casualties of this war. The later have come from a civil war. I blame the U.S. for these later deaths for 2 reasons.

A)there was no carnage between Sunni's and Muslims before Bush broke the Iraqi pandora box.

B) I remind you that Israel blamed all the deaths in Lebanon on Hezbollah even though it was doing the slaughter. All the Iraqi slaughter between Sunni's and Shiia is started by American forces. Therefore America is responsible for all their deaths. I am only using Israeli logic.

[Snag]

When Hezbollah kidnapped 2 Israeli soldiers and Israel reacted without warning by pulverizing Lebanon,displacing 1 million people,creating an environmental disaster,and killing a thousand people,that's O.K.That's not an overreaction.Oh no theses are Jews. They can do no wrong.But demonstrations, to having your religion insulted in front of a worldwide audience is not O.K.for Muslims.You have flagrant double standards on acceptable behaviour. One for Jews,one for Muslims.

You are mistaken again. One was an act of agression met with agression and the other only a speech. There is a difference.

[lsbets]

ls,
My mention of Kuwait was in reply to PA's comment regarding monarchies in the mideast. Is Kuwait a monarchy or not ? I know what I am talking about perhaps you should try to understand before replying with such inane comments.
http://Kinkyforgov.com Yehaww !!!

Have you ever met a Kuwaiti? Do they have an emir? Yes. Do they have an elected parliament? Yes - one that has great sway over the Emir. They have much greater political freedom for women than most Middle Eastern countries. The Emir disperses the oil welath to the Kuwaiti population. Kuwaitis have the guaranteed right to a job. Every foreign company in Kuwait has to hire a certain percentage of Kuwaitis.

There is much that I do not like about the Kuwaitis - the way they treat non American foreigners is the issues I take the most umbrage with. But you clearly have no understanding or clue about what Kuwait is like. As usual, you are the one with no understanding.

[BenDiesel26]

When Hezbollah kidnapped 2 Israeli soldiers and Israel reacted without warning by pulverizing Lebanon,displacing 1 million people,creating an environmental disaster,and killing a thousand people,that's O.K.That's not an overreaction.Oh no theses are Jews. They can do no wrong.But demonstrations, to having your religion insulted in front of a worldwide audience is not O.K.for Muslims.You have flagrant double standards on acceptable behaviour. One for Jews,one for Muslims.

First off, did Hezbollah give warning before they kidnapped the two Israeli soldiers? Second, there were also close to a million Jews who were displaced at the time of the conflict. What do you think about that? I guess it was ok for Hezbollah to intentionally target civilians.

The Israelis didn't die though. You want to know why? Because their government did not hide behind the civilians like Hezbollah did. The Israeli government refused to use their civilians as a human shield, not that Hezbollah would have cared. Their intent on firing the rockets was to kill as many Jews as possible. Fortunately, the Israeli government allowed their civilians to seek safe haven in bunkers where they could not be harmed. Hezbollah on the other hand, hid weapons in people's houses. They had a whole network of bunkers from which they operated. However, they never afforded the Lebanese people whose country they hijacked the chance to seek safe haven in their bunkers. Because frankly, they could care a less.

After the war, Nasrallah, head of Hezbollah, conceded that the whole conflict would not have started if they had not kidnapped the two Israeli soldiers.

Was their religion insulted? Was the Pope's third person quoting of a centuries old script wrong? Not according to the actions of the Muslims. Please go read his entire dialogue. The speech was not in any way an insult to Islam. By the way, its nice to know that you consider the killing of nuns, bombing and burning of churches, burning of effigies of the Pope, call for the execution of the Pope and all worshippers of the cross, and wielding semi-automatic and automatic weapons chanting death to the the pope 'demonstrations.' These 'demonstrations' as you call them were as evil and inhumane as they come.

[ljb]

Have you ever met a Kuwaiti? Do they have an emir? Yes. Do they have an elected parliament? Yes - one that has great sway over the Emir. They have much greater political freedom for women than most Middle Eastern countries. The Emir disperses the oil welath to the Kuwaiti population. Kuwaitis have the guaranteed right to a job. Every foreign company in Kuwait has to hire a certain percentage of Kuwaitis.

There is much that I do not like about the Kuwaitis - the way they treat non American foreigners is the issues I take the most umbrage with. But you clearly have no understanding or clue about what Kuwait is like. As usual, you are the one with no understanding.

And again you fail to reply to the topic at hand. I responded to PA's statement regarding mid-eastern monarchies. Kuwait is a monarchy ! What is your problem ?

[JustRalph]

Amazing, Light wants us to believe that attacking and kidnapping should be ignored.......... when people are at war........there is no such thing as an over-reaction.............

[lsbets]

And again you fail to reply to the topic at hand. I responded to PA's statement regarding mid-eastern monarchies. Kuwait is a monarchy ! What is your problem ?

You asserted that our support for the Emir of Kuwait was a major factor in Muslim hatred of the US. I asserted that you are very wrong in that assumption and that you are speaking without any real knowledge of the topic. I filled you in with details of the political setup in Kuwait and the Emir's relationship with the government and his people. Since he is well liked by his people I find it highly doubtful that we are hated because we support him. Feel free to go ahead and cry to PA about personal attacks because I corrected your uniformed and uneducated statements.

[Light]

You are mistaken again. One was an act of agression met with agression and the other only a speech. There is a difference.


The point here is about overreaction. The destruction of a country over the kidnapping of 2 soldiers is overreaction. You cant point fingers at Muslims overreacting after the Jewish state's super overreaction in Lebanon. That reaction dwarfs the current Muslim reaction to the Popes speech on a scale of a million to one.

[Light]

By the way, its nice to know that you consider the killing of nuns, bombing and burning of churches, burning of effigies of the Pope, call for the execution of the Pope and all worshippers of the cross, and wielding semi-automatic and automatic weapons chanting death to the the pope 'demonstrations.' These 'demonstrations' as you call them were as evil and inhumane as they come.

Allthough I don't condone violence,you certainly do. Your rant and rave about the "evil Hezbollah" and the subsequent deaths of innocent civilians you and Israel blame on Hezbollah while Israel pulls the trigger is inexcusable.

Now tell me why if Israel is so humane,why do they refuse to give the coordinates of the 350,000 unexploded bomblets that litter southern Beirut to the current U.N. troops. The war is over. Whats their excuse now. Didn't mame enough kids. Not enough blood shed to satisfy their vulturous thirst?

[BenDiesel26]

Allthough I don't condone violence,you certainly do. Your rant and rave about the "evil Hezbollah" and the subsequent deaths of innocent civilians you and Israel blame on Hezbollah while Israel pulls the trigger is inexcusable.

Now tell me why if Israel is so humane,why do they refuse to give the coordinates of the 350,000 unexploded bomblets that litter southern Beirut to the current U.N. troops. The war is over. Whats their excuse now. Didn't mame enough kids. Not enough blood shed to satisfy their vulturous thirst?

Wait a second. Just a couple of posts above, you blamed the US for the thousands of deaths in the Middle East despite the fact that they weren't the ones pulling the trigger (suicide bombers and car bombs). There's also a huge difference. Israel did not deliberately target civilians, the terrorists absolutely do deliberately target civilians, as well as torture and maim them.

Also, once again you have made an extroardinary claim. Can I get a link that shows me that Israel littered Lebanon with THREE HUNDRED AND FIFTY THOUSAND BOMBS before they began pulling out. Thanks in advance. You are the king of dreaming up this stuff in your head. Do you live in Iran? I am really beginning to wonder. You have to watch Al-Jazeera. You still haven't provided the link to the child count in Lebanon yet either. And by the way, while your reading about the history of Islam, go read about the history of Hezbollah as well. Their terrorist attacks certainly aren't limited to the US and Israel.

I like how you put 'evil' in quotations when you mention Hezbollah. Frankly, I think they got what they wanted. They wanted a reaction out of Israel, that's why they did it. They just got more than they bargained for, as once again NASRALLAH ADMITTED. For example, if somebody I don't know breaks into my house in the middle of the night and I beat the piss out of him with a baseball bat till he's bloodied and battered, call it overreaction all you want. But he brought it on himself. Had he not decided to break the law and threaten me, it never would have happened. And once again, Israel did not deliberately target innocent civilians, Hezbollah did. Why didn't Hezbollah let the civilians take refuge in their bunkers?

[Snag]

The point here is about overreaction. The destruction of a country over the kidnapping of 2 soldiers is overreaction. You cant point fingers at Muslims overreacting after the Jewish state's super overreaction in Lebanon. That reaction dwarfs the current Muslim reaction to the Popes speech on a scale of a million to one.

Your scale and my scale have two different types of measurment. I also wonder that you think about the killing of the nun. Is that not "overreaction"?

[Tom]

Ljb,
Do you work in tech support at Electronic Arts?
They have a guy there who writes very much in your style.
Just curious......

[ljb]

You asserted that our support for the Emir of Kuwait was a major factor in Muslim hatred of the US. I asserted that you are very wrong in that assumption and that you are speaking without any real knowledge of the topic. I filled you in with details of the political setup in Kuwait and the Emir's relationship with the government and his people. Since he is well liked by his people I find it highly doubtful that we are hated because we support him. Feel free to go ahead and cry to PA about personal attacks because I corrected your uniformed and uneducated statements.
Wow ! You must have been taking spin lessons from Lefty. I made no such assertion. I mearly mentioned our support of Monarchies in the mid-east. This can be tied into the hatred the oppressed in these monarchies have for us. Again, what is your problem ? :bang:

[ljb]

Ljb,
Do you work in tech support at Electronic Arts?
They have a guy there who writes very much in your style.
Just curious......
Nope.....

[ljb]

ls,

Here is a link that provides some data regarding Kuwait.
http://sorrel.humboldt.edu/~economic/econ104/poverty/
snippet:
As an example, Kuwait is often cited as having one of the highest GDP per capita figures in the world, however its income distribution is so skewed towards the top that most people in Kuwait are fairly poor. Many of the other oil-producing nations are in the same situation.

[lsbets]

Wow ! You must have been taking spin lessons from Lefty. I made no such assertion. I mearly mentioned our support of Monarchies in the mid-east. This can be tied into the hatred the oppressed in these monarchies have for us. Again, what is your problem ? :bang:

Here is your original comment ljb:


And I believe the U.S. has been accused of supporting these theocracies, monarchies. Hencth the hatred of U.S. Saudi and the Shah of Iran and Kuwait are a few that come to mind. (Shah long gone but they seem to have long memories).

You are clearly stating that our support for the Emir of Kuwait has led to hatred of us throughout the Muslim world.

Here was my original reply:

Curious ljb, could you tell me what impact our support for the Emir of Kuwait has had on our perception in Kuwait. Its hard to find a country where Americans are more loved than Kuwait, so I'd love to find out what you know that I don't. Or did you just throw out Kuwait because you heard of it and thought it would make you sound like you knew what you were talking about?

Nowhere did I deny that Kuwait is a monarchy (I even mentioned the Emir, so its pretty clear that I know its a monarchy), which you somehow decided that I did. As you continued to reveal your lack of knowledge about whiat you speak, I continued to educate you about Kuwait and the government there. Educating you somehow lead to you saying I took spin lessons from Lefty, which tends to be your usual comment when you have clearly been outsmarted.

Back to my original point - our support for the Emir of Kuwait has nothing to do with our perception in the Muslim world, well, except for in Kuwait where it has helped our perception.

[lsbets]

ls,

Here is a link that provides some data regarding Kuwait.
http://sorrel.humboldt.edu/~economic/econ104/poverty/
snippet:
As an example, Kuwait is often cited as having one of the highest GDP per capita figures in the world, however its income distribution is so skewed towards the top that most people in Kuwait are fairly poor. Many of the other oil-producing nations are in the same situation.

Does the report talk about Kuwaiti citizens vs. imported labor and the distribution of wealth? I alluded to that in one of my previous replies, but again your lack of reading comprehension ability results in you completely missing that. Kuwaiti citizens live very well, non citizens do not. Perhaps you should reread my previous posts. Face it ljb, you're just not smart enough to argue with me. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[ljb]

Does the report talk about Kuwaiti citizens vs. imported labor and the distribution of wealth? I alluded to that in one of my previous replies, but again your lack of reading comprehension ability results in you completely missing that. Kuwaiti citizens live very well, non citizens do not. Perhaps you should reread my previous posts. Face it ljb, you're just not smart enough to argue with me. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Does this mean you are dumb enough to argue with me ? :lol: :lol:

[lsbets]

Does this mean you are dumb enough to argue with me ? :lol: :lol:

Sometimes that would seem to be the case. I am occasionally dumb enough to think that you are doing something other than trolling, yes.

[ljb]

Here is your original comment ljb:




You are clearly stating that our support for the Emir of Kuwait has led to hatred of us throughout the Muslim world.

Here was my original reply:



Nowhere did I deny that Kuwait is a monarchy (I even mentioned the Emir, so its pretty clear that I know its a monarchy), which you somehow decided that I did. As you continued to reveal your lack of knowledge about whiat you speak, I continued to educate you about Kuwait and the government there. Educating you somehow lead to you saying I took spin lessons from Lefty, which tends to be your usual comment when you have clearly been outsmarted.

Back to my original point - our support for the Emir of Kuwait has nothing to do with our perception in the Muslim world, well, except for in Kuwait where it has helped our perception.

Well you said alot here. Yes, I do believe our support of mideastern monarchies increases the hatred of the U.S. amongst the impoverished in the mideast.

[Tom]

Stop quoting this guy - you are defeating my IGGY! :mad:


:lol:

[Light]

Wait a second. Israel did not deliberately target civilians, the terrorists absolutely do deliberately target civilians, as well as torture and maim them.

Give it up. Israel dropped cluster bombs and phosophorous bombs in Lebanon. Everyone knows those bombs are intended for civilians. And due to the 350,00 unexploded bomblets from cluster bombs,southern Lebanon is a booby trap and Israel refuses to cooperate with the U.N. on the coordinates for cluster bomd droppings.

Also, once again you have made an extroardinary claim. Can I get a link that shows me that Israel littered Lebanon with THREE HUNDRED AND FIFTY THOUSAND BOMBS before they began pulling out.

Dude,you are seriously underinformed to be arguing this topic. Here's the link from Haaretz,a Jewish newspaper based in Israel:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArtVty.jhtml?sw=cluster+bomb&itemNo=765026

Israel scattered at least 350,000 unexploded cluster bombs on south Lebanon in its war with Hezbollah, mostly when the conflict was nearing its end, leaving a deadly legacy for civilians, United Nations officials said on Tuesday.

And once again, Israel did not deliberately target innocent civilians, Hezbollah did.

You can say that till you turn Jewish if you are not allready one,but the facts speak for themselves. 90% of Israeli inflicted casualties are civilian and children. Hezbollah's inflicted casualties were mostly Israeli soldiers,not civilians

[Light]

Your scale and my scale have two different types of measurment. I also wonder that you think about the killing of the nun. Is that not "overreaction"?

I'll tell you my scale. Israel decimated a country. Muslims killed 1 nun. I condemn the nun killing. But I dont see you condemning Israel.

[JustRalph]

I support Israel, and their cluster bombs

I condemn the Nun killing...........

wow! I feel so much better.............

[hcap]

BenDiesel26 says to LightAlso, once again you have made an extroardinary claim. Can I get a link that shows me that Israel littered Lebanon with THREE HUNDRED AND FIFTY THOUSAND BOMBS before they began pulling out.So Light gives the link from haaretz

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/...b&itemNo=765026

"Shearer said cluster bombs had killed or wounded an average of three people a day since the war ended, with 15 killed, including a child, and 83 wounded, of whom 23 are children.

Until you realize that the situation is more complex than the inherrent evil or inherrent savageness of Muslems, we'll be fighting the so-called war on terrah, just as darth cheney and hopalong george says-for a long, long, long, long time.

And unless you are willing to indescriminatly destroy large numbers of Mulems and other innocents, we have to get used to the idea of assigning blame to boths sides where due and not get on a moral high horse. Look at the situation from the other side.

http://www.imemc.org/content/view/21527/1/

"A Jewish rabbi living in the West Bank has called on the Israeli government to use their troops to kill all Palestinian males more than 13 years old in a bid to end Palestinian presence on this earth.

Extremist rabbi Yousef Falay, who dwells at the Yitzhar settlement on illegally seized Palestinian land in the northern part of the West Bank, wrote an article in a Zionist magazine under the title "Ways of War", in which he called for the killing of all Palestinian males refusing to flee their country, describing his idea as the practical way to ensure the non-existence of the Palestinian race."


I am sure this will sooth the "savages" just dandy. Oh well, white man's burden revisted is such a hard long justified battle, particularly when you just know you're right and the only agreived party

Ben you were not aware of the horrendous cluster bomb fiasco, become aware of our and Israels part in the larger cycle of violence.
Btw, if you want I wil repost the violent history of Christianianity that I posted in the Christian man beaten thread. Specifically on Jewish intollerance.
It is not the religion itself that produces intollerance and hatred.

[lsbets]

You can say that till you turn Jewish if you are not allready one,

It amazes me that Light with his history of anti-semetism and his admiration and liberal quoting of neo-Nazis still has his defenders on this board.

[hcap]

I agree with much of what Light says. Don't try to link me to anti-semitism, by using the nazi line. I have never claimed any nazi bogus bs, unlike many of your compadres on this board who go ad hitleritum every time the rightwingnuts declare a new evildoer.

On the other hand I will claim an uneven distribution of blame and media blindess in the Israeli-Palestine issue, and the exagerated threats of Islamo-blah, blah, blah-adinfinitum_isms.

Iran, has given UN inspectors access.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2443606

On the other hand. Israel, which we know has nuclear weapons won't even sign the Nonproliferation Treaty and even refuses to acknowledge its membership in the nuclear club. Got a lot of nukes. 100-200? 300. Maybe more. And of course Israel has broken more UN resolutions than any country-substanstially more than saddams' Iraq.

How would you feel if some south american country had nukes aimed at us in self defense-and just witnessed the country overreacting against another, and going crazy with cluster bombs. The inherrant goodness of Israel, and the inherrant evilness of their enemies is a bit overdone.

[lsbets]

Hcap, I did not say I thought you were anti-semetic by using any line, including the nazi line. I said that it amazes me Light still has his defenders (you are his #1 defender) after his well documented history of anti-semetism and his tendency to quote from neo-Nazi websites. That's not throwing out the Hitler line, that's mentioning the sources that Light has been known to quote. So give your melodrama a rest. If I thought you were anti-semetic I would say so directly. I don't. I do however think you are a naive apologist for some of the worst nations and people currently on the planet and you do not want to open your eyes to the reality of what we face in 2006. But its your right to be like that, lefty fantasyland must be a very comfortable place to live.

[hcap]

Not everything Light says or links to is nazilike. "His tendency to quote from neo-Nazi websites" is your take not applicable to haaretz. He quoted from haaretz. Me too. To devalue what he is saying now, using guilt by link-association, is similiar to your snide contention that errors that I have made in linking to shoddy sources devalues anything else I may have to say.

So now we have guilt by two degrees of link-association aimed at me cause I support Light, and he may have quoted questional websites

Please I called out Israel for wanton use of cluster bombs. The collateral damage that has been done, and will be done is many times worse than for instance the detestable murder of a nun, or 6 bombings of churches. Even worse because the murder and bombings were in rage, whereas the cluster bombings appear coldly calculated.

[BenDiesel26]

Wow Light, for once you actually provided a link for one of your claims that provides proof. I commend you and I concede that I was wrong on that issue. I suppose it is somewhat dissappointing to know that Israel has stooped down to Hezbollah's moral level on this issue. It all comes back to moral equivalence, however.

You are holding Israel to a much higher standard in this conflict than you hold Hezbollah. This doesn't change the fact that as many times I have stated, the raid of Northern Israel by Hezbollah started the whole conflict in the first place. Nasrallah, leader of Hezbollah, conceded this. This is analagous to the raids of the PLO in the 70's that started the first Israeli-Lebanon conflict. I don't know what you do not understand about this issue. How many times can you sit next to somebody and poke them with your finger before they finally break and go haywire on your ass.

Here is where moral equivalence comes in. I'm sure the cluster bombs have been placed in attempts to prevent more raids of their Northern border by terrorist groups. However, I'm also sure that Israel would be MORE THAN HAPPY to hand over coordinates for the cluster bombs to the UN as soon as the UN FOLLOWS THROUGH ON THEIR SECOND ISSUED PROVISION TO DISARM HEZBOLLAH. If Hezbollah was disarmed, and if Hezbollah could not raid northern Israel, THERE WOULD BE NO MORE PROBLEMS. However, just as you do the UN can comdemn Israel while at the same time saying that they will not disarm Hezbollah, even though that is what they agreed on in the first place.

It is no coincidence that virtually ALL of the violence and war in the modern world spotlight involves Islam.

[Light]

I said that it amazes me Light still has his defenders (you are his #1 defender) after his well documented history of anti-semetism

Yawn. You are resorting to slander once again rather than any real argument. Any criticism of Israel must be anti-semitism,just like any criticism of America must be unpatriotic. I quoted a Jewish paper based in Israel and you call me anti-semetic. What do you call Jews who are against Israeli aggression?

[lsbets]

Yawn. You are resorting to slander once again rather than any real argument. Any criticism of Israel must be anti-semitism,just like any criticism of America must be unpatriotic. I quoted a Jewish paper based in Israel and you call me anti-semetic. What do you call Jews who are against Israeli aggression?

Slander, slander, slander - I'm still waiting to hear from your attorney. :lol: :lol: How is it slander to remind people who you quote in many of your posts? They were your posts.

And look back at what I referred to in this thread. I didn't refer to any criticism of Israel, I referred to this comment:

You can say that till you turn Jewish if you are not allready one

Now you certainly phrased that to make it seem like there would be something wrong with someone being Jewish, which certainly appears to be an anti-semetic remark.

I realize you can't handle it when you are called out. You get rather unstable everytime it happens and then blow up just before running away. And everytime you blow up you go back to the Jews, the Jews, the Jews. You have quite the obsession with blaming all the world's problems on them.

[Light]

Wow Light, for once you actually provided a link for one of your claims that provides proof. I commend you and I concede that I was wrong on that issue. I suppose it is somewhat dissappointing to know that Israel has stooped down to Hezbollah's moral level on this issue. It all comes back to moral equivalence, however.

Wow back to you.

This doesn't change the fact that as many times I have stated, the raid of Northern Israel by Hezbollah started the whole conflict in the first place.

The two sides have been exchanging tit for tat since Israel's creation. The Israeli biased media here created the timeline for this skirmish so it would look like Hezbollah started this. Go back a few days and I'll show you that Israel started this.The Israeli dominated media is very strong in this country. Ever go to France or Italy for vacation and watch the news there? Very different point of view.


I'm sure the cluster bombs have been placed in attempts to prevent more raids of their Northern border by terrorist groups. However, I'm also sure that Israel would be MORE THAN HAPPY to hand over coordinates for the cluster bombs to the UN as soon as the UN FOLLOWS THROUGH ON THEIR SECOND ISSUED PROVISION TO DISARM HEZBOLLAH.

I don't recall allowing 350,000 cluster bomblets to be dispersed on Lebanese soil as part of the agreement for Hezbollah to disarm. Please provide a link.

[Light]

And look back at what I referred to in this thread. I didn't refer to any criticism of Israel, I referred to this comment:

You can say that till you turn Jewish if you are not allready one

Now you certainly phrased that to make it seem like there would be something wrong with someone being Jewish, which certainly appears to be an anti-semetic remark.


You are too paranoid. I was going to say "till you turn blue". It's the same point.

And everytime you blow up you go back to the Jews, the Jews, the Jews.

Uh..this topic is about Muslims overreacting. I'm just pointing out how Jews are just as guilty and have catalyzed alot of Muslim reactions.

[BenDiesel26]

Light,

You're missing the point. Hezbollah openly stated they will not disarm and continued to arm despite provisions by the UN previously. Why should Israel obey the UN if Hezbollah (Iran/Syria) is not and has not previously? They openly disobeyed before a UN resolution was even in place. Fight fire with fire.

You say Israel started this conflict a few days before the Hezbollah raid. Are you talking about the Gaza raid of Israel? Provide a link that shows Israel raided Lebanon before Hezbollah raided their northern border. If this is the case and Israel went into Lebanon before their soldiers were killed and kidnapped, then I guess the media really must have pulled the blinders over my eyes. By the way, you're not going to find one. If the raid never occurred in the first place, nothing would have happened.

[ljb]

Stop quoting this guy - you are defeating my IGGY! :mad:


:lol:
Tom,
Please reconsider having ls on your ignore list. While ls can be easily confused and experiences delusions of grandeur on occassion, he does occassionaly make a point.
And as you know to ignore is to be ignorant. :lol:

[JustRalph]

Amazing dialogue...........let's stop the dialogue. It has no further value. I believe that LS being an american soldier and Light being a obvious supporter of terrorists, and most probably someone who would most likely be an enemy of our country should he be found on middle east soil............. that LS should be commisioned by those of us who are tired of Light and his crap, to hunt down Light and eliminate him. If the two met on middle east soil I am sure the result would be the same.........let's just get it over with. :D

[46zilzal]

all we have to do is send David Allan Coe! he CAN redneck 'em to death.

[Bala]

Army recruits the most this year since 1997. Liberal "over-stretched" fear mongers stupified.

http://snipurl.com/wvke


_________________
Outsource congress.

[46zilzal]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/05/02/eveningnews/main692497.shtml

As enshrined in the No Child Left Behind Act, schools must provide military recruiters with the names, addresses and telephone numbers of all high school students. Little known-factoid: The law also states that you and/or your kid can tell the school district that you do not want any information released to the military, and the school district has to honor your request to opt out. If you didn't know that, it's no surprise.

[Tom]

No one in the services is there by draft - only by their choice. And all after 9-11. In spite of the lies and lib propaganda.

[PaceAdvantage]

ls,

Here is a link that provides some data regarding Kuwait.
http://sorrel.humboldt.edu/~economic/econ104/poverty/
snippet:
As an example, Kuwait is often cited as having one of the highest GDP per capita figures in the world, however its income distribution is so skewed towards the top that most people in Kuwait are fairly poor. Many of the other oil-producing nations are in the same situation.


And there you have a MAJOR reason why terrorist networks (aka GANGS) thrive in the middle eastern oil-producing nations. Has little or nothing to do with US policy. That's just a convenient excuse to keep the masses in line (and poor). JMHO

[ljb]

And there you have a MAJOR reason why terrorist networks (aka GANGS) thrive in the middle eastern oil-producing nations. Has little or nothing to do with US policy. That's just a convenient excuse to keep the masses in line (and poor). JMHO
Finally some agreement here.
Yes PA, a MAJOR reason. Now to carry it one step further, the U.S. support of these monarchies tends to create hatred for the U.S. amongst these "GANGS
This week's U.S. NEWS and world report has an article concerning another Dictator/thug we have just snuggled up to. One Teodoro Obiang Nguema of Equatorial Guinea. Has a picture of Condi shaking hands with this murdering/torturing thug. They call it a grip and grin.
On another note, the magazine also has a lengthy article regarding the corruption involving the Pentagon and contractors and politicians. Could this be the military-industrial complex Eisenhower warned us about ?

[PaceAdvantage]

What can the US do about these monarchies? We need their oil. We can't go around invading every single non-democratic country in the world, now can we?

You have to pick and choose your battles. Iraq was an easy decision....everything else after that becomes quite the hand-wringer.

[JustRalph]

What can the US do about these monarchies? We need their oil.

We need to get to drilling Anwar, and off the coast of Florida and anywhere else that we can find oil. These potential oil finds could be the greatest factor that could change the way we conduct our foreign policy with the middle east. We need to stop bowing to the environmental lobby and the Dems incessant demand that potential oil fields be set aside.

[Show Me the Wire]

I think Venezuella is another no brainer. Chavez nationalized the oil companies, Chavez's action, I believe, rise to an imminent threat especially, in light, of his remarks about our President. I believe we should liberate the U.S. oil companies from Chavez's henious actions.

Also, would benefit the Middle East situation, as there would be less demand for Arab oil in the U.S.

[Secretariat]

This intelligence report pretty much confirms what many of us knew. That the Bush policies in Iraq have increased the threat of terrorism.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060924/ap_on_go_co/us_iraq

Intel: War has worsened terror threat
By NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writer 2 hours, 24 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - The Iraq war has contributed to an increased threat of terrorism, according to an intelligence assessment that has not lessened the Senate majority leader's defense of the U.S.-led invasion three years ago and occupation.

The classified assessment of the war's impact on terrorism came in a National Intelligence Estimate that represents a consensus view of the 16 disparate spy services inside government, an intelligence official said Sunday.

[Show Me the Wire]

sec:

I do not view the report as terrible news. The war in Iraq has stirred up radical extremists. so what. The goal is to combat and defeat organized terrorism and it seems to be working. The good news ia Al Queda has been reduced and no longer has the organizational ability to carry out large scale devastating attacks, similiar to 9/11.

The world must prevent the formation of large organized terrorists organizations. There will always be ideological threats, but small unorganized movements will fade in time as the Iraq war winds down.

[sq764]

This intelligence report pretty much confirms what many of us knew. That the Bush policies in Iraq have increased the threat of terrorism.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060924/ap_on_go_co/us_iraq

Intel: War has worsened terror threat
By NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writer 2 hours, 24 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - The Iraq war has contributed to an increased threat of terrorism, according to an intelligence assessment that has not lessened the Senate majority leader's defense of the U.S.-led invasion three years ago and occupation.

The classified assessment of the war's impact on terrorism came in a National Intelligence Estimate that represents a consensus view of the 16 disparate spy services inside government, an intelligence official said Sunday.
I don't comment on classified documents either

[Tom]

When you spray raoches, they all get riled up and run around crazy, until you get them all. Much more effective than waiting until you see one then rounding them into the corner with yer pointy cowboy boots.

[hcap]

Or yer pointy cowboy head.

[Secretariat]

sec:

I do not view the report as terrible news. The war in Iraq has stirred up radical extremists. so what. The goal is to combat and defeat organized terrorism and it seems to be working. The good news ia Al Queda has been reduced and no longer has the organizational ability to carry out large scale devastating attacks, similiar to 9/11.

The world must prevent the formation of large organized terrorists organizations. There will always be ideological threats, but small unorganized movements will fade in time as the Iraq war winds down.

You just don't get it. The war in Iraq set in motion a civil war between Sunnis, Shia and Kurd. Into this mess Al Queda has been able to infiltrate and cause unrest there as well. It is not just a couple of radical extremists or it would have been over long ago.

The report is simply a confirmation by "our own intelligence agencies" that the current policies have increased terrorism.

The fact that you can say "I do not view the report as terrible news." indicates just how badly you've bought into GW's hogwash.

[sq764]

You just don't get it. The war in Iraq set in motion a civil war between Sunnis, Shia and Kurd. Into this mess Al Queda has been able to infiltrate and cause unrest there as well. It is not just a couple of radical extremists or it would have been over long ago.

The report is simply a confirmation by "our own intelligence agencies" that the current policies have increased terrorism.

The fact that you can say "I do not view the report as terrible news." indicates just how badly you've bought into GW's hogwash.
Interesting thought on this article in a UK paper:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2006/09/25/dl2502.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2006/09/25/ixopinion.html

"In that spies have an obvious interest in justifying their existence, their reports need to be treated with caution."

[Secretariat]

Interesting thought on this article in a UK paper:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2006/09/25/dl2502.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2006/09/25/ixopinion.html

"In that spies have an obvious interest in justifying their existence, their reports need to be treated with caution."

lol...you've got to be kidding me. Did you read this in your article?

The 16 separate bodies that contributed to the National Intelligence Estimate agreed that a core of al-Qa'eda members and affiliates had been joined by "self-generating" cells inspired by Osama bin Laden but without any direct connection to the network's leaders. They concluded that since 2001 the threat of global terrorism had heightened."

16 BODIES. This isn't some rogue spy or even one agency attempting to "justify their existence"

What the heck is that? One could say the Pentagon is "justifying their exsitence" by painting a rosy scenario in Iraq.

C'mon SQ, Get real here.

[Tom]

Sec, we have to rile them to fight them. At least we are fighting them over there. The shiites and sunnies have always been at war - we didn't start this.
When the USSR fell, everyone started fighting with each other - should we have kept the Soviets together?
These people do not know anything but fighting. They don't understand peace or freedom.
Would you support breaking Iraq into three seperate countried? I would. What they have in common is not enough to keep them together - let's slplit them up. Most of Ira is not a hotbed for violence anyway. I heard it described today as Iraq is the size of California, and the violence is in an area the size of San Franciso. I dunno, but it sounds right. Our goal was to make ourselves safer, so split them up, keep them apart, and get the hell out and finish off Iran!

[Show Me the Wire]

You just don't get it. The war in Iraq set in motion a civil war between Sunnis, Shia and Kurd. Into this mess Al Queda has been able to infiltrate and cause unrest there as well. It is not just a couple of radical extremists or it would have been over long ago.

The report is simply a confirmation by "our own intelligence agencies" that the current policies have increased terrorism.

The fact that you can say "I do not view the report as terrible news." indicates just how badly you've bought into GW's hogwash.

There always has been violence between different muslem sects. I guess you could say the secretarian violence is a result of the Iraqi war, because the minority Sunnis oppressed the majority Shiites. Now the Shiites want revenge and control, while the Sunnis' want to retain the control the Sunnis had under Saddam.

You may want to open your eyes to see the reality of the world. Before the Iraqi war the Sunnis' were oppressing and killing shiites', now it is the Shiites' turn.

Additionally, the less governments like Saddam's Iraq and the Taliban's Afghanistan the less opportunity for sucessful large terrorist organizations.

At least I did not fall for Clinton's attempt at revisionist history about his war on terror. :bang:

Interesting to hear, from his mouth, he authorized the CIA along with outside contractors to kill bin Laden. A good example of foriegn policy that puts the U.S. in bad standing with the rest of the world. According to Clinton, torture is inhuman, but killing is okay. Besides I thought Clinton enforced an executive order that prohibitted assasination. Torture inhumane but assasination okay, illogical set of values.

[sq764]

lol...you've got to be kidding me. Did you read this in your article?

The 16 separate bodies that contributed to the National Intelligence Estimate agreed that a core of al-Qa'eda members and affiliates had been joined by "self-generating" cells inspired by Osama bin Laden but without any direct connection to the network's leaders. They concluded that since 2001 the threat of global terrorism had heightened."

16 BODIES. This isn't some rogue spy or even one agency attempting to "justify their existence"

What the heck is that? One could say the Pentagon is "justifying their exsitence" by painting a rosy scenario in Iraq.

C'mon SQ, Get real here.
Sorry, anything that gets 'obtained' by Dems and that is 5 months old and comes right before November (ironically) kinda makes you take it with a grain of salt.. Well, a reasonable person would do that, you may not.

[JustRalph]

Sq, is right. They invented the October surprise. Who knows what is on the horizon. they pulled the GWBush DUI out in 2000, there is a history amongst them.

[46zilzal]

On another note, the magazine also has a lengthy article regarding the corruption involving the Pentagon and contractors and politicians. Could this be the military-industrial complex Eisenhower warned us about ?
sadly it has been increasing for a very long time independent of any executive interaction.

[46zilzal]

no wonder a broad section of people get strange ideas when there is this baloney out there.
http://www.oreilly-sucks.com/billspins.htm

[Lefty]

Just from personal exp, and i'm not in the upper income level, my taxes are less under Bush every yr than with Clinton. That means more disposable income. When I say me, I mean my wife and her take home is less than 40,000 but the tax refund has been bigger every yr. There ya go.

[JustRalph]

Just from personal exp, and i'm not in the upper income level, my taxes are less under Bush every yr than with Clinton. That means more disposable income. When I say me, I mean my wife and her take home is less than 40,000 but the tax refund has been bigger every yr. There ya go.


same here.

[hcap]

sq764 Sorry, anything that gets 'obtained' by Dems and that is 5 months old and comes right before November (ironically) kinda makes you take it with a grain of salt.. Well, a reasonable person would do that, you may not.It is obvious the bushies did not want this out BEFORE the elections. Their whole election strategy has been that the Iraq war is part and parcel of da war on terra, and the war is just great for killing all them terraissts.

Yeah, it is an october surprise only to the lemmings that bought into the party line. Let's see, report done in April, if the report does not contradict the party line and in fact supports the bushies plan, why didn't they release it with fanfare?. Just like they couldn't back up all the WMD theories put forth by their martinets-WMDs in syria, etc-they knew they would get punched. They tried to keep it quiet until after november.

"That's a cover-up in every meaningful sense of the word, a calculated effort to hide information from and deceive the public. And it's actually a replay of what happened in late 2002, when the White House kept the Iraq WMD NIE's doubts about Iraqi weapons programs away from the public."-Josh Marshall

[ljb]

What can the US do about these monarchies? We need their oil. We can't go around invading every single non-democratic country in the world, now can we?

You have to pick and choose your battles. Iraq was an easy decision....everything else after that becomes quite the hand-wringer.
Pa,
My original comment was in agreement with your statement regarding the oppressive condidtions that breed terrorists.
Oil is sold on a world market. Our support of the monarchies has little to do with the oil market. Eg. the oil we get from Venezuela.
Iraq was a BAD decision as the facts are beggining to show.

[Lefty]

lbj says: "iraq was a bad decision"
I think those Iraquis with "blue thumbs" would disagree. But Saddam would agree with yuh.

[ljb]

lbj says: "iraq was a bad decision"
I think those Iraquis with "blue thumbs" would disagree. But Saddam would agree with yuh.
And I think the 50,000 dead Iraquis familys would agree with me. But Halliburton agrees with you.

[sq764]

sq764 It is obvious the bushies did not want this out BEFORE the elections. Their whole election strategy has been that the Iraq war is part and parcel of da war on terra, and the war is just great for killing all them terraissts.

Yeah, it is an october surprise only to the lemmings that bought into the party line. Let's see, report done in April, if the report does not contradict the party line and in fact supports the bushies plan, why didn't they release it with fanfare?. Just like they couldn't back up all the WMD theories put forth by their martinets-WMDs in syria, etc-they knew they would get punched. They tried to keep it quiet until after november.

"That's a cover-up in every meaningful sense of the word, a calculated effort to hide information from and deceive the public. And it's actually a replay of what happened in late 2002, when the White House kept the Iraq WMD NIE's doubts about Iraqi weapons programs away from the public."-Josh Marshall
Where is Sandy Berger when you need him..

[46zilzal]

Spy Agencies Say Iraq War Worsens Terrorism Threat

By Mark Mazzetti / New York Times

WASHINGTON, Sept. 23 — A stark assessment of terrorism trends by American intelligence agencies has found that the American invasion and occupation of Iraq has helped spawn a new generation of Islamic radicalism and that the overall terrorist threat has grown since the Sept. 11 attacks.

[Lefty]

And I think the 50,000 dead Iraquis familys would agree with me. But Halliburton agrees with you.
Another ignorant post. Saddam killed more and would have kept on killing. Haliburton also was used by Clinton and there's a wartime cap on their profits, which i think is 3%

[46zilzal]

It's too bad we don't have good old J. Edgar around. He would just loan the army some of his dresses and put them on the detainees in Cuba. That would freak them out.

[46zilzal]

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/03/27/halliburton_lobby_costs_see_big_drop/

[Lefty]

46, yeah, business wasn't as brisk during Clinton cause Clinton never really went to war. We are in a fullscale war with Iraq now, buddy, lottsa damage.
Looks like they got the Clinton contract cause of the lobbying but got the Bush contract cause they can do the job.

[Lefty]

46, here's an article i've been sitting just waiting for you libs to mention H... one more time.
http://www.randomjottings.net/archives/000091.html

[46zilzal]

46, here's an article i've been sitting just waiting for you libs to mention H... one more time.
http://www.randomjottings.net/archives/000091.html
you know color photography, like the rest of the world, is NOT black and white.

[46zilzal]

46, yeah, business wasn't as brisk during Clinton cause Clinton never really went to war. We are in a fullscale war with Iraq now, buddy, lottsa damage.

just like Vietnam a useless war with no exit plan.....Will continue as long as all those defense contractors get their tax dollars. Human costs are nothing to them.

[ljb]

46, yeah, business wasn't as brisk during Clinton cause Clinton never really went to war. We are in a fullscale war with Iraq now, buddy, lottsa damage.
Looks like they got the Clinton contract cause of the lobbying but got the Bush contract cause they can do the job.
Oh Lefty,
Did you catch any of the Generals being interviewed today ? We are not now nor have not been in a full scale war. We are in a poorly managed excursion in Iraq. I suppose Cheney had nothing to do with the no-bid contract ? And what will the Easter Bunny be bringing you this year Lefty ? :lol:

[JustRalph]

Oh Lefty,
Did you catch any of the Generals being interviewed today ? We are not now nor have not been in a full scale war. We are in a poorly managed excursion in Iraq.

I would agree with this statement. I think we should have been done with Iraq 18 months ago or more. We should be half way through Iran by now.

[46zilzal]

I would agree with this statement. I think we should have been done with Iraq 18 months ago or more. We should be half way through Iran by now.
talk about a hornest nest. Do you realize how large their standing army is not to mention the will of that entire nation?

Going in there would be a catastrophic mistake but I'll bet it is on the rutabaga's agenda.

[46zilzal]

from 1984 a description of a two minute HATE drill reminiscent of what I hear at this board often: "For perhaps as much as thirty seconds they kept it up. It was a refrain that was often heard in moments of overwhelming emotion. Partly it was a sort of hymn to the wisdom and majesty of Big Brother, but still more it was an act of self-hypnosis, a deliberate drowning of consciousness by means of rhythmic noise."

[JustRalph]

talk about a hornest nest. Do you realize how large their standing army is not to mention the will of that entire nation?

Going in there would be a catastrophic mistake but I'll bet it is on the rutabaga's agenda.

yeah right. We heard this about Iraq and the Republican Guard. We ended up shooting at Toyota trucks full of idiots waving ak47's

[46zilzal]

yeah right. We heard this about Iraq and the Republican Guard.
No the neocons told you that

rational people knew what kind of poorly equiped defeated soldiers they were after the butt kicking earlier.

[46zilzal]

Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE) said recently that a military strike on Iran would be “disastrous, catastrophic,” and “would inflame the Middle East in ways we can’t imagine today.”

[Snag]

Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE) said recently that a military strike on Iran would be “disastrous, catastrophic,” and “would inflame the Middle East in ways we can’t imagine today.”

Isn't Hagel one of the neocons you rant about all the time? Now he is one of your buds to be quoted as if from on high.........how sad.

[46zilzal]

more and more and more and more and more are recognizing the quagmire and the outright reckless stupidity of pre-emptive strikes. Not a surprise that it is finally getting to the other side of the aisle.

yes lets fight another pre-emptive war.http://www.brook.edu/views/op-ed/daalder/20040530.htm

[Lefty]

more and more and more and more and more are recognizing the quagmire and the outright reckless stupidity of pre-emptive strikes. Not a surprise that it is finally getting to the other side of the aisle.

yes lets fight another pre-emptive war.http://www.brook.edu/views/op-ed/daalder/20040530.htm
Easy to note the problems but nobody on the left has a solution.

[Lefty]

talk about a hornest nest. Do you realize how large their standing army is not to mention the will of that entire nation?

Going in there would be a catastrophic mistake but I'll bet it is on the rutabaga's agenda.
Is that why there are a lot of underground factions that would like nothing better than to overthrow the dictatorship and practise a little democracy?

[Lefty]

Oh Lefty,
Did you catch any of the Generals being interviewed today ? We are not now nor have not been in a full scale war. We are in a poorly managed excursion in Iraq. I suppose Cheney had nothing to do with the no-bid contract ? And what will the Easter Bunny be bringing you this year Lefty ? :lol:
Read the article. They also had a nobid contract with Clinton. Sorry to have to crap in YOUR Easter basket.

[Lefty]

As far as the generals kind of suspicious timing for their announcements, eh?
And of course the mainstream media won't quoyte ant Generals that disagree just like they tried to silence the Swiftboat Vets by omission.

[PaceAdvantage]

Spy Agencies Say Iraq War Worsens Terrorism Threat

By Mark Mazzetti / New York Times

WASHINGTON, Sept. 23 — A stark assessment of terrorism trends by American intelligence agencies has found that the American invasion and occupation of Iraq has helped spawn a new generation of Islamic radicalism and that the overall terrorist threat has grown since the Sept. 11 attacks.


How do they actually know this? How do they measure this? If I am reading this right, and all of this "knowledge" is indeed factual, then these intelligence agencies MUST KNOW where and who these NEW terrorists are, correct? If not, then how can they proclaim that the Iraq war has helped SPAWN A NEW GENERATION OF ISLAMIC RADICALISM? How do they know if they aren't able to identify these NEW GROUPS and NEW MEMBERS?

If this is indeed true, then it also follows that the Iraq War has GREATLY INCREASED our ability to identify and therefore eliminate all of these new terrorists.

A logical mind must draw these conclusions....

Right or wrong?

[PaceAdvantage]

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/03/27/halliburton_lobby_costs_see_big_drop/

Duh!

If Kerry had won, I betcha the Heinz corporation would have scaled back their lobbying efforts as well....

[46zilzal]

corporations run the country and all the elected clowns do their bidding. It is high time for people to recognize BOTH political parties havn't a care in the world for the voters.

BUT these same clowns fall prey to the same thing mentioned in the Declaration of Independence: "experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

The game plan is right there. Create a THIRD party that has SOME response to the collective input of the people who put them there not some international oligarchy of CEO's. But of course if your portfolio is going to be aided by the influence of these CEO's, well that's another story.

[Lefty]

46, got some news for ya. There are many many parties out there besides the R's and D's. Ross Perot created still another one back in 92. Prob is they can't muster more votes than the R's and D's. There ya go...

[46zilzal]

46, got some news for ya. There are many many parties out there besides the R's and D's. Ross Perot created still another one back in 92. Prob is they can't muster more votes than the R's and D's. There ya go...
yes teacher I didn't just fall off the turnip truck

[Lefty]

46, you tell people to think for themselves then you give us the tired old socialist tirade of the evils of corps. Now that's some real darn good orig thinking ya got going on there. Shake the shucks outta your pants, willya?

[JustRalph]

"experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

I think you miss the real point of this quote. This quote means that as a people we have the right to revolution.........no matter the means. Now go back and read the 2nd Amendment. Tie the two together and you might realize that our founders actually were advocating an armed "throwing off of the government" shortly after writing these words that you quote, they did just that.

[46zilzal]

I think you miss the real point of this quote.
don't think so. when it doesn't work it takes an awful lot to get people off their butts to do something about it.

[46zilzal]

September 25th, 2006
Three Retired Officers Demand Rumsfeld's Resignation

By William Branigin / Washington Post

Three retired military officers who served in Iraq called today for the resignation of Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, telling a Democratic "oversight hearing" on Capitol Hill that the Pentagon chief bungled planning for the U.S. invasion, dismissed the prospect of an insurgency and sent American troops into the fray with inadequate equipment.

the reality is one thing and the clowns at the helm just won't pull their heads out of the sand.

[Snag]

Be sure and watch for the release date of their book!

[Suff]

If this is indeed true, then it also follows that the Iraq War has GREATLY INCREASED our ability to <create> and therefore eliminate all of these new terrorists.

A logical mind must draw these conclusions....

Right or wrong?

For the most part, right. Just a slight modification.

[Suff]

Be sure and watch for the release date of their wrath

Additionally, its usually unleashed, not released.

[Lefty]

September 25th, 2006
Three Retired Officers Demand Rumsfeld's Resignation

By William Branigin / Washington Post

Three retired military officers who served in Iraq called today for the resignation of Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, telling a Democratic "oversight hearing" on Capitol Hill that the Pentagon chief bungled planning for the U.S. invasion, dismissed the prospect of an insurgency and sent American troops into the fray with inadequate equipment.

the reality is one thing and the clowns at the helm just won't pull their heads out of the sand.
And what about all the other Generals that are not calling for Rumsfeld's resig?
But, guess what man with no country, the Pres gets to decide.

[Tom]

Bush has orderd the report be declassifed and it could be out as early as today.

Let's see now the WHOLE story...not just the convenient snipets the libs have grabbed hold of.

Funny, with all the outrage the libs have, not a one has expressed any concern that classfiied informaiton is not only being leaked, but published.

[Tom]

It's out...breakingnews.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/09/26/nie.iraq/index.html

[Secretariat]

Unfortunately, quite a lot of it is redacted, but obviously confirms a growing terrorism as a result of Bush policies in Iraq.

[Lefty]

obviously, obviously, obviously? Obviously the leftwing of this country cares more about politics than defeating our enemies. When the enemy strikes and we strike back and then to say by trying to defend ours selves that we have inflamed the enemy is a leftwing fairy tale. These people needed no provacation; they are tght to hat the West from their early days in school. This has been going on for yrs; long before the Iraq war.

[46zilzal]

the folks involved up close understand what Iraq has done to inflam the jihadists
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/09/26/musharraf.terror/index.html

then others do what they've done all along: dismiss reality.
U.S. INVOLVEMENT IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN

CREATING MORE TERRORISTS 54%

ELIMINATING TERRORISTS 15%

The New York Times CBS/Poll

CHENEY: I, I, I can’t buy that.

[Lefty]

the folks involved up close understand what Iraq has done to inflam the jihadists
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/09/26/musharraf.terror/index.html

then others do what they've done all along: dismiss reality.
U.S. INVOLVEMENT IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN

CREATING MORE TERRORISTS 54%

ELIMINATING TERRORISTS 15%

The New York Times CBS/Poll

CHENEY: I, I, I can’t buy that.
If anyone is diemissing reality it's you leftwingers who blve we can futher inflame a people who are tght to hate us from early childhood. Now it's your turn to use some logic and think for YOURSELF.

[JustRalph]

There was no Iraqi invasion on 9-11 ?

There was no Afghan invasion on 9-11?

I wonder why they attacked us? Puzzling huh?

I want to bring the bastards out.

I read the other day that the new President of Iraq has said that he looks forward to having two U.S. Air Force Bases and possibly two Marine Corp bases in Iraq for the next 30 years..............are you starting to get the picture yet? two years ago I was telling you guys this is what we need and one of the reasons we went into Iraq. A quick reaction force and a squadron of F-15's and F-117's and throw in a few of the new F-22's and we own the region. Every President of every backwards ass country would have to check his radar and look up before he takes a crap, let alone before he pulls off some bullshit like trying to take over another country, especially Israel.

http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/afx/2006/09/25/afx3041413.html

[rastajenk]

One of the myths in the pantheon of Convenient Delusions of the Left is that Iraq has become a "training ground" for a new generation of terrorists. But is there any evidence whatsoever of any act of terrorism anywhere post-April 2003 that has its operational, logistical, financial, or any other kind of roots, in Iraq?







No, I didn't think so.

[JustRalph]

Go over and read some more from that report

http://formerspook.blogspot.com/2006/09/more-of-what-you-wont-read-in-nyt.html

~snippet from Link~

In one of its early paragraphs, the estimate notes progress in the struggle against terrorism, stating the U.S.-led efforts have "seriously damaged Al Qaida leadership and disrupted its operations." Didn't see that in the NYT article.

Or how about this statement, which--in part--reflects the impact of increased pressure on the terrorists: "A large body of reporting indicates that people identifying themselves as jihadists is increasing...however, they are largely decentralized, lack a coherent strategy and are becoming more diffuse." Hmm...doesn't sound much like Al Qaida's pre-9-11 game plan.

The report also notes the importance of the War in Iraq as a make or break point for the terrorists: "Should jihadists leaving Iraq perceive themselves to have failed, we judge that fewer will carry on the fight." It's called a ripple effect.

More support for the defeating the enemy on his home turf: "Threats to the U.S. are intrinsically linked to U.S. success or failure in Iraq." President Bush and senior administration officials have made this argument many times--and it's been consistently dismissed by the "experts" at the WaPo and Times.

And, some indication that the "growing" jihad may be pursuing the wrong course: "There is evidence that violent tactics are backfiring...their greatest vulnerability is that their ultimate political solution (shar'a law) is unpopular with the vast majority of Muslims." Seems to contradict MSM accounts of a jihadist tsunami with ever-increasing support in the global Islamic community..

The estimate also affirms the wisdom of sowing democracy in the Middle East: "Progress toward pluralism and more responsive political systems in the Muslim world will eliminate many of the grievances jihadists exploit." As I recall, this the core of our strategy in Afghanistan and Iraq.

[Tom]

46 - here are the stats that really count:

1. No teror attacks on US soil in 5 years - the longest stretch of terror free living in decades.
2. No hurricanes on US shores in over a year.

During the Clinton years, not one terror attack was stopped on US soil or bases/embassys. Not one.

[JustRalph]

Try this letter to Zarqawi............

http://www.nysun.com/article/40461

[Secretariat]

During the Clinton years, not one terror attack was stopped on US soil or bases/embassys. Not one.

Google - Ahmed Ressam.

Tom, can you explain something to me? This is very important. Please read this link, in particular the bolded section.

http://www.judicialwatch.org/printer_1967.shtml

FBI & BUSH ADMINISTRATION SUED OVER ANTHRAX DOCUMENTS

Judicial Watch Wants to Know Why White House Went on Cipro Beginning September 11th

What Was Known and When?

(Washington, DC) Judicial Watch, the public interest group that investigates and prosecutes government corruption and abuse, said today that it has filed lawsuits against the Federal Bureau of Investigation (“FBI”), the Department of Health and Human Services (“HHS”), the Center for Disease Control (“CDC”), the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases (“USAMRIID”) and the U.S. Postal Service (USPS) for those agencies’ failures to produce documents concerning the terrorist anthrax attacks of October 2001, under the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act (“FOIA”).

Judicial Watch has additional anthrax-related FOIA requests pending with the White House and other government agencies that will see legal action in the next two weeks.

Judicial Watch represents hundreds of postal workers from the Brentwood Postal Facility in Washington, DC. Until the Brentwood facility was finally condemned by the CDC, Brentwood postal workers handled all of the mail for Washington, DC, including the “official mail” that contained the anthrax-laden envelopes addressed to Senators Daschle and Leahy. While Capitol Hill workers received prompt medical care, Brentwood postal workers were ordered by USPS officials to continue working in the contaminated facility. Two Brentwood workers died from inhalation anthrax, and dozens more are suffering from a variety of ailments related to the anthrax attacks. A variety of legal actions are being planned for the disparate treatment and reckless endangerment the Brentwood postal workers faced.

In October 2001, press reports revealed that White House staff had been on a regimen of the powerful antibiotic Cipro since the September 11th terrorist attacks. Judicial Watch is aggressively pursuing the disclosure of the facts and the decision for White House staff, and President Bush as well, to begin taking Cipro nearly a month before anthrax was detected on Capitol Hill.

“The American people deserve a full accounting from the Bush administration, the FBI , and other agencies concerning the anthrax attacks. The FBI’s investigation seems to have dead-ended, and frankly, that is not very reassuring given their performance with the September 11th hijackers,” stated Judicial Watch Chairman and General Counsel Larry Klayman. “One doesn’t simply start taking a powerful antibiotic for no good reason. The American people are entitled to know what the White House staffers knew nine months ago, “ he added.

....

Ok, Tom. Now answer me this?

1. Why did the Bush Whitehouse take Cipro (a powerful antibiotic against anthrax) a month BEFORE 911?

2. Why did the Bush Whitehouse not notify Congress to take the same precaution. After all, no anthrax mailings had occurred?

3. Why were anthrax letters sent only to two congressional democrats Patrick Leahy and Tom Daschle in the Washington letters? Why weren't any sent to the Republican leadership?

4. Why does GW never speak of capturing the culprits?

These letters are extremely important because they set in motion the "weapons of mass destruction" argument, and that since Al Queda had never launched a chemical attack (and since box cutters had been the weapon of choice in the plane hijackings), that it could have been Hussein. This was confirmed by the Mossad. (Interestingly, Israel has more anthrax than any country in the Middle East). The anthrax incidents killed five americans and wounded 17, and five years later the perpetrators are free. These letters were mailed in the US - confirmed. The letters were mailed AFTER 911 - confirmed. The terrorists were not killed in the planes -ergo, they're still around, and still potentially on US soil. In other words, under this administration, there are potentially terrorists with chemical weapons walking
among us on US soil who have never been caught. We don't need to look to Iraq for WMD's. They may be very well here, just waiting

You don't hear the Bush admin talk much about this.

[BenDiesel26]

Judicial watch sued the Clinton administration 18 times. I also like how judicial watch's 'source' was press reports. Yet the only thing in the press about the issue is that judicial watch is suing the Bush administration.

[Tom]

1. Why did the Bush Whitehouse take Cipro (a powerful antibiotic against anthrax) a month BEFORE 911? Prove it happened befreo I respond.

2. Why did the Bush Whitehouse not notify Congress to take the same precaution. After all, no anthrax mailings had occurred? Dittos

3. Why were anthrax letters sent only to two congressional democrats Patrick Leahy and Tom Daschle in the Washington letters? Why weren't any sent to the Republican leadership? I'lll field this one.....two biggest aresholes in congress???

4. Why does GW never speak of capturing the culprits? How do you know he doesn't?

You whole attempt at changing the topic is typical. The premise is rejected outright.

[Secretariat]

1. Why did the Bush Whitehouse take Cipro (a powerful antibiotic against anthrax) a month BEFORE 911? Prove it happened befreo I respond.

2. Why did the Bush Whitehouse not notify Congress to take the same precaution. After all, no anthrax mailings had occurred? Dittos

3. Why were anthrax letters sent only to two congressional democrats Patrick Leahy and Tom Daschle in the Washington letters? Why weren't any sent to the Republican leadership? I'lll field this one.....two biggest aresholes in congress???

4. Why does GW never speak of capturing the culprits? How do you know he doesn't?

You whole attempt at changing the topic is typical. The premise is rejected outright.

Frankly, the War on Terror (particularly the WMD argument was predicated on the anthrax attacks which GW spoke of) issues above are quite to topic.

1 and 2. Judicial Watch is attempting to get courts to get the WH to release information on the CIPRO. Interesting no reporter at a press conference has ever asked this to the President. The WH has refused Judicial Watch but newspapers have reported the account is true. If so, it is significant.

3. If they're assholes, wouldn't the terrorists be interested in keeping them in power so they could continue destroying America by their stupidity.

4. Show me the last time he spoke of capturing the anthax letter culprits.

Have these guys got away with it? These terrorists are still out there, and struck within America, and used a WMD within the US. Not some phantom claim from Iraq. The anthrax was used here. The perpetrators were not convicted or even formally accused or known. But we do know it ocucrred in the US AFTER 911, and the mailings occurred AFTER 911. I am amazed this is swept under the rug by the adminstration. Just as they orginally attempted to NOT have a 911 Commission until public outrage, they refuse judicial watch's Freedom of Information Request about CIPRO. What are they hiding? Why is whether they took CIPRO before 911 a threat to National Security? The only threat it would be is to them.

[BenDiesel26]

I want to see the legitimate American newspapers that quoted the account was true. I have seen where they have said Judicial Watch is suing the Bush Administration, as they often did during Clinton's years as well, but I would like to see the article from a source other than 'press' reports.

[Tom]

We do NOT know that the anthrax attacks were from foreign terrorists.
Considering the targets, a hell of lot of Americans could have done it.

[JustRalph]

We do NOT know that the anthrax attacks were from foreign terrorists.
Considering the targets, a hell of lot of Americans could have done it.

including the latest sent to Keith Olberman

[Secretariat]

We do NOT know that the anthrax attacks were from foreign terrorists.
Considering the targets, a hell of lot of Americans could have done it.

They certainly were anthrax attacks with a lot of Allah Akbar in the letters.

They could be Muslim Americans. We do not know. The WH seems to have no information.

As to the Olberman prank, it is under FBI investigation. However, John Coryn had a powderly substance allegedly delivered to his office today.

Maybe we better check out what's happening in this country rather than the streets of Baghdad.

[Lefty]

They certainly were anthrax attacks with a lot of Allah Akbar in the letters.

They could be Muslim Americans. We do not know. The WH seems to have no information.

As to the Olberman prank, it is under FBI investigation. However, John Coryn had a powderly substance allegedly delivered to his office today.

Maybe we better check out what's happening in this country rather than the streets of Baghdad.
Well this adimin certainly trying but you libs certainly stand in the way at every opprtunity.

[JustRalph]

They certainly were anthrax attacks with a lot of Allah Akbar in the letters.

They could be Muslim Americans. We do not know. The WH seems to have no information.

As to the Olberman prank, it is under FBI investigation. However, John Coryn had a powderly substance allegedly delivered to his office today.

Maybe we better check out what's happening in this country rather than the streets of Baghdad.


you are more likely to get shot by a crack addict.

But if you say so, fine.......start locking up the Muslims........Sec recommends it.

[ljb]

Funny, with all the outrage the libs have, not a one has expressed any concern that classfiied informaiton is not only being leaked, but published.
My understanding is: All classified information leaked has to go through Novak before being published, so yes I am concerned. :lol:

[46zilzal]

Cost of Iraq war nearly $2b a week

By Bryan Bender / Boston Globe

WASHINGTON -- A new congressional analysis shows the Iraq war is now costing taxpayers almost $2 billion a week -- nearly twice as much as in the first year of the conflict three years ago and 20 percent more than last year -- as the Pentagon spends more on establishing regional bases to support the extended deployment and scrambles to fix or replace equipment damaged in combat.

mmm

Heralded Iraq police academy a 'disaster'

$75 million project so mismanaged that campus poses huge health risks

By Amit R. Paley / Washington Post

BAGHDAD - A $75 million project to build the largest police academy in Iraq has been so grossly mismanaged that the campus now poses health risks to recruits and might need to be partially demolished, U.S. investigators have found.

The Baghdad Police College, hailed as crucial to U.S. efforts to prepare Iraqis to take control of the country's security, was so poorly constructed that feces and urine rained from the ceilings in student barracks. Floors heaved inches off the ground and cracked apart. Water dripped so profusely in one room that it was dubbed "the rain forest."

[Lefty]

46, and of course you're completely neutral and don't care one way or another but just want to keep your credentials as a Cub reporter...

[46zilzal]

46, and of course you're completely neutral and don't care one way or another but just want to keep your credentials as a Cub reporter...
There are DENSE people, ridiculously dense people and then there is YOU.

This adminstration is totally incompetent: that is the point

[Lefty]

There are DENSE people, ridiculously dense people and then there is YOU.

This adminstration is totally incompetent: that is the point
So, the man who is neutral doesn't care, does have an agenda, and that is to further his hatred of GW. It must be terribly hard to carry such a load of hatred. It will eventually bury you. And then there is me: A guy who is grateful we have a Pres who will standup for this country instead of making the Pres all abour getting women. And then there is you: A disenchanted man of hate who never has a bad word to say about terrorists and nothing good to say about this admin. Pity. Keep on with the reporting of news stories we already know, cubbie.

[46zilzal]

new level of denseness and inability to read: over and over and over and over and over and over posts show just what a CLOWN this incompetent BAFOON continues to be each and EVERY DAY. Verbally dyslexic, stuck to an agenda that is based upon a fairy tale and wasting tax dollars and lives on a war that will never be over as long as his henchmen continue at the helm.

He is a joke and I laugh at him daily.

[PaceAdvantage]

Didn't you guys like to cite the stock market at one time as an indicator of Bush administration failure?

How's the Dow doing these days boys?

Gas prices have to be below $2 a gallon now in parts of the country, as it's about $2.35 for regular here in expensive NY....

Yeah, life just sucks under the Bush administration......unemployment LOW LOW LOW, stock market UP UP UP, inflation in check, real wages starting to uptick, new home sales actually up again, consumer confidence UP at last check.....

Dems must not be feeling as cocky anymore....

[Lefty]

new level of denseness and inability to read: over and over and over and over and over and over posts show just what a CLOWN this incompetent BAFOON continues to be each and EVERY DAY. Verbally dyslexic, stuck to an agenda that is based upon a fairy tale and wasting tax dollars and lives on a war that will never be over as long as his henchmen continue at the helm.

He is a joke and I laugh at him daily.
46, you calling the Pres names and a joke doesn't speak well for libs in the other party does it? GW has been ahead of them every step of the way. You're the joke my man. Taxes cut for every american, almost full employment, and free from terrorist attacks in this country. Clinton was the joke and buffoon. Now we have a real man who has the country at heart and not his "legacy." I LAUGH AT YOU!

[46zilzal]

46, you calling the Pres names and a joke doesn't speak well for libs in the other party does it? GW has been ahead of them every step of the way. You're the joke my man. Taxes cut for every american, almost full employment, and free from terrorist attacks in this country. Clinton was the joke and buffoon. Now we have a real man who has the country at heart and not his "legacy." I LAUGH AT YOU!
what a crock.

[Lefty]

what a crock.
46, you learn your lib lessons well, grasshopper. When you can't respond to facts just say something negative but non-informative. Here are some facts again.
LOWER TAXES,
GOOD ECONOMY
NO TERRORIST ATTACKS IN THIS COUNTRY
LOW UNEMPLOYMENT

[46zilzal]

in your world of fantasy, I don't doubt you believe that load of crap

[46zilzal]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/29/AR2006092900368.html

[46zilzal]

what a waste of life

[sq764]

in your world of fantasy, I don't doubt you believe that load of crap
I don't think he posted any opinions there, he posted 4 facts. It's not about believing them, it's about acknowledging the

[46zilzal]

more about his salivation for war from the DICK:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2004/04/20/AR2005040206486.html

[Secretariat]

Didn't you guys like to cite the stock market at one time as an indicator of Bush administration failure?

How's the Dow doing these days boys?

Gas prices have to be below $2 a gallon now in parts of the country, as it's about $2.35 for regular here in expensive NY....

Yeah, life just sucks under the Bush administration......unemployment LOW LOW LOW, stock market UP UP UP, inflation in check, real wages starting to uptick, new home sales actually up again, consumer confidence UP at last check.....

Dems must not be feeling as cocky anymore....

Cocky??? :D

Let's see.

a) We'll start with min. wage is not the lowest it's been since 1971 adjusted for inflation.

b) Poverty figures from the Bureau of Labor and Statistics show poverty at record highs

c) 100's of billions of dollars in deficits

d) National Debt at all time high.

e) Middle Class familes doing poorer

http://money.cnn.com/2006/09/28/news/economy/middle_class.reut/index.htm

f) Our manufacturing base dissolving - 70,000 laid off at Ford.

The DOW adjusted for inflation since Clinton left office is slightly up, but compared to the eight years of Clinton the perctange comparisions are embarrasing. The Nasdaq has never fully recovered. Helath Care Premiums through the roof. And Gas prices? Please tell me what has occurred in tow months to precipitate an 80 cent drop in prices.

I have no doubt things are better for some. But for the 60% of us in polls against GW, we are not better off. I apply the Reagan test here. Are you better off financially than you were under Clinton? If so, keep voting for the party of big deficits and high poverty. If not, it's time for a change to sanity.

[ljb]

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- The typical double-income family is worse off financially than ever, a study released Thursday said, warning that few Americans have saved enough to brace for financial setbacks.

Middle-class families are struggling to pay for a home, health insurance, transportation and their children's college with wages that have not kept pace with higher prices
Here is a link with detail.
http://money.cnn.com/2006/09/28/news/economy/middle_class.reut/index.htm?postversion=2006092816

[46zilzal]

the stock market simply records how the fat cats, mutuel funds and bankers are doing. Not regular folks.

[JustRalph]

what a waste of life

it is really out of line when you use the image and persona of a distinguished American hero to try and bolster your position. You cheapen her life and her commitment to what she believed in. That women was a West Point Grad who carried more class than you will ever have. She gave her life for her country, after dedicating her last years to her country and the training regime and serious intellectual study to become an officer from what is considered the greatest military school in the world. You cheapen her sacrifice and her accomplishments.

You should be ashamed of yourself. Shooting off your mouth, Sitting on your ass in a country that relies on people like her to keep them safe. She would disagree with you I am sure.

[JustRalph]

yeah right Sec. George Bush is the one that ran Ford into the ground. It had nothing to do with the company and its crappy looking cars.

[46zilzal]

I hate to see ANY ONE die for nothing.

I just do not see the military as some orgasmic experience as many seem to.

[Tom]

While I agree wholehaertedly that our miserable excuse for a governemnt is causing a lob of job loss with it's refusal to protect our people from illegal forerign violation of trade laws and currency manipulation, this is obviously

NOT the case with Ford. Ford is a poorly managed, slow reacting company whose only edge for decades has been it's size, not it's ingenuity. The fact that other car companies are thriving underscores the moronic management at Ford and GM. If anyhting, Sec, you can blame the liberal UAW for doing more to kill the US automakers than Bush by a longshot. Elect libs and this is a preview of what you will be seeing. Your side's "the rich are bad" view of economics can only lead to another depression. As bad as Bush is on this, you guys are still looking UP to him.

[Lefty]

the stock market simply records how the fat cats, mutuel funds and bankers are doing. Not regular folks.
46, i can see you also failed economics 101. When the stockmarket failed in 1929 everybody was affected by the depression.

[46zilzal]

yes the fat cats, the bankers etc. controlled the money and screwed it up for everyone.

[Lefty]

yes the fat cats, the bankers etc. controlled the money and screwed it up for everyone.
SO, then that means a vibrant stockmarket does have significance for us all.

[46zilzal]

It only represents the fat cats however.

[Lefty]

It only represents the fat cats however.
Like a true lib, trying to have it both ways. If it only represents the fat cats then it would only represent the fat cats if it failed. We know that's not true. And over 50% of the people in this country own stock, didja know that?

[Secretariat]

yeah right Sec. George Bush is the one that ran Ford into the ground. It had nothing to do with the company and its crappy looking cars.

It has happened on his watch. And I'm not just talking Ford. Look at our whole manufacturing base under this President in terms of jobs lost.

[JustRalph]

It has happened on his watch. And I'm not just talking Ford. Look at our whole manufacturing base under this President in terms of jobs lost.


You are so full of it. NAFTA was originally put into place by Bush Sr. The resulting negotiations were done by Clinton and Gore. They were called the "side agreements" if memory serves me right. You think Manufacturing went to hell the minute GW went into office? You are crazy. We laid a nice road that was paved with good intention. And it took 15 years or more to do it. Jimmy Carter was even talking about coming up with a trade agreement like NAFTA. Nope, the blame for what happen to Manufacturing in the U.S. has a bunch of forefathers.

The fact that you try to lay the problems with Ford at the feet of GW is just like a no nothing Dem/Lib like yourself. You buy into everything your party line emails to you. Get real..........this is a far reaching problem wherein 90% of the blame lays with the Auto companies and the UAW. End of story.

[Tom]

NAFTA = CLINTON = his legacy and the legacy of the dumocrats.
Bottom line, the seeds of manufacturing jobs going away were planted and watered on BILLY's watch.
Perot called it that huge sucking sound, remember?

[Lefty]

It has happened on his watch. And I'm not just talking Ford. Look at our whole manufacturing base under this President in terms of jobs lost.
Yeah, it's all happened because of Bush. BTW, since unemployment low these people must be geiing jobs someplace. Maybe they're going to work in Honda plant in Ohio. Hmmm...

[ljb]

NAFTA = CLINTON = his legacy and the legacy of the dumocrats.
Bottom line, the seeds of manufacturing jobs going away were planted and watered on BILLY's watch.
Perot called it that huge sucking sound, remember?
Yepper.
Clinton was the last republican I'll ever vote for.

[Snag]

what a waste of life

You have no idea what she died for. She chose to be there. You can not in any way assume to know or understand what she valued in life. If I were her family, I think I would seriously consider this a liable statement. You have no basis to consider her life a waste or not.

[46zilzal]

life is wasted in Iraq. period. Found yet another example of same and said so.

Libel, wow I will call my lawyer. When is the summons to arrive?

wasted life is not a term EXCLUSIVE to me.http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles/06/05/29/10043169.html