The Pope

[BenDiesel26]

So the Pope quotes a Byzantine Emperor from 600 YEARS AGO who stated that Muhammed brought evil and inhumanity to the world, especially in his attempt to spread Islam by the sword. So now there is protest in the Muslim community and what do they do? They bomb Christian churches, have riots, and burn effigies of the Pope in the middle of the street. I couldn't think of a better way that they could have verified and confirmed that what the Pope said was true. Instead of apologizing, the Pope should say, see I told you so. Looks like that guy was right. I'm not Catholic by the way. I could have sworn that Catholics didn't have worldwide riots when Tom Hanks starred in the Da Vinci code a couple of months ago.

[46zilzal]

as volatile as these nubars are the Pope might have gotten close to the same response by passing flatus.

[chickenhead]

This is victim mentality writ large. The Pope is giving a serious intellectual speech, discussing the compatibility of faith and reason. As part if his discussion, he cites a dialogue between an emporer and a persian muslim from several hundred years ago. ONE sentence of the dialogue between these two is pulled out, and used to fuel a massive protest.

The Pope had been planning a trip to Turkey, now this is what they say about him:

Ali Bardakoglu, the head of Turkey's state-run directorate of religious affairs, called the Pope's remarks "provocative, hostile, prejudiced and biased". The deputy leader of the Turkish ruling AK party, Salih Kapusuz, got off the fence to declare that "he has a dark mentality that comes from the darkness of the Middle Ages… Benedict, the author of such unfortunate and insolent remarks is going down in history for his words… in the same category as leaders such as Hitler and Mussolini".

Really? Hitler and Mussolini? For quoting a dialogue in part of an argument about the realtionship between faith and reason? For arguing that faith and reason can go together?

I give the Pope props for holding a serious discussion. I like the fact that he is a scholar, I hope he is not going to be muted in fear that the idiot masses will attempt to distort his words again in the future.

[CryingForTheHorses]

Now they want to kill/miam the pope.This is getting really silly..Who do these people think they are?.This has to be stopped,Ban these people from ever coming to the USA..Why on earth are you americians paying for a war where its really useless as these people cant and dont want to help themselves.Where do these people get off trying to bully people because they arent Muslum or something that was said.Time has come to get very serious with these people and just let them know what the USA can really do..How can a dictator like Saddam or Osama have such a influence on such a mass of people.I think its really time to get the guys out of there and let them sort it out between them.The hell with the oil,They will drown in it if they cant sell it.I was for the war and still am but its looking pretty dismal.

[Tom]

It IS a holy war.
It is not just "radical islam.
It is islam.
First cartoons, now just a discussion.
We are suppossed somehow live in peace with this brand of mental defectives? Islam is a religion of peace? :lol:
Wake up world.

[samyn on the green]

The popes words were clearly taken out of context and used to further fuel the polarization between our two cultures. Seems like the media over there and over here is despartate to fuel the discord of the two cultures,

How can the media not show the words in the greater context of the entire speech? Criminial act to take these words out of context as this will lead to terrorism. The pope makes speechs on a daily basis about love, faith and dedication to family , yet the first we hear of him is this one line. This is proof that the media on both sides of the row is a tool to manipulate the minds of the masses to accept war and create terrorism. More terrorism equals more war and if you look closely it is the media that drives the cycle.

[JustRalph]

the pope implies the muslims were violent in the past. They get upset and burn churches............. apparently the pope was right............

[lsbets]

Just imagine if the Pope drew a cartoon!

[DJofSD]

There was "Pope on a rope" years ago.

I wonder what the I-F's would do if there was an equivalent product. How about ayatollah on a stick?

[kenwoodallpromos]

It IS a holy war.
It is not just "radical islam.
It is islam.
First cartoons, now just a discussion.
We are suppossed somehow live in peace with this brand of mental defectives? Islam is a religion of peace? :lol:
Wake up world.
_____________
It only took Europe and the Western Hemisphere until the 1800's to learn not to fight and kill using religion as an excuse; Islam is just spreading fast because of lax immigration and "diversity" laws worldwide.
Radical Muslims kill all non-Muslims, moderate Muslims kill former Muslims;
crazy Muslims try to kill the Pope and get forgiven by the Pope!

[Ponyplayr]

Here is a link to the full speech the Pope gave. Having read the speech I can't think of a single reason why the Pope should apologise.


http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/september/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20060912_university-regensburg_en.html

[samyn on the green]

Exactly, and why the media took that one line out if context is bordering on criminial. Too bad the masses are not sharp enough to read between the lines and see how they are being manipulated. Here is a link to the full speech the Pope gave. Having read the speech I can't think of a single reason why the Pope should apologise.


http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/september/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20060912_university-regensburg_en.html

[Tom]

the pope implies the muslims were violent in the past. They get upset and burn churches............. apparently the pope was right............

Oh oh.......lok out - this could be trouble over there! :lol:

[Secretariat]

It IS a holy war.
It is not just "radical islam.
It is islam.
First cartoons, now just a discussion.
We are suppossed somehow live in peace with this brand of mental defectives? Islam is a religion of peace? :lol:
Wake up world.

Tom,

The problem is the US Congress has NOT declared a "holy war". When it does according to the Constitution, then it is - for us. May be for them, but at this point, not for us.

[Suff]

Here is a link to the full speech the Pope gave. Having read the speech I can't think of a single reason why the Pope should apologise.


http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/september/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20060912_university-regensburg_en.html

I read it. I think some people are being a tad intellectually dishonest when they say it was "only one sentence" or that's its not a direct criticism of Islam ( indirectly).

The Pope makes a valid point. An interesting one as well. The way I understand his point is that when you take theology away from the other disciplines. To include, Math, Science, Liberal arts, History, Geography etc etc.. It sickens by the absence of deductive reasoning , and the analogous thought that accompany them.

A cleaner analogy is when Religion grows in its own garden, it grows without boundaries.

He makes that point in his conclusion,

We will succeed in doing so only if reason and faith come together in a new way, if we overcome the self-imposed limitation of reason to the empirically verifiable, and if we once more disclose its vast horizons. In this sense theology rightly belongs in the university and within the wide-ranging dialogue of sciences, not merely as a historical discipline and one of the human sciences, but precisely as theology, as inquiry into the rationality of faith.



This may be , as he suggests, a path to reconciliation between the faiths. I temper my criticisms of the knee-jerk reactions of the fanatics, and I will allow a few weeks for a more mature dialogue to build on. Hopefully it occurs.

Make no mistake though..... Many Muslims will see that as "Our god is Better Than Yours"... and I have empathy for them, because I consider some issues they are dealing with.



I don't want to engage in any political discussion surrounding this. But If a Muslim military occupied Washington DC, and its spiritual leader took a few swings at our religion, we might have a few incidents ourselves. Potentially.

He refers to ABMs Hanz. A Muslim Scholar who wrote 400 books and supported the idea of no reasoning deduction surrounding the Quran. He had a literal, if not militant position on the Quran.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Hazm

[Show Me the Wire]

I

Make no mistake though..... Many Muslims will see that as "Our god is Better Than Yours"... and I have empathy for them, because I consider some issues they are dealing with...........


I don't want to engage in any political discussion surrounding this. But If a Muslim military occupied Washington DC, and its spiritual leader took a few swings at our religion, we might have a few incidents ourselves. Potentially.



In the absence of military presence, will a cartoon published by a secular paper do? :bang:

[Suff]

In the absence of military presence, will a cartoon published by a secular paper do? :bang:

Your so small, and uneffective.

[Show Me the Wire]

Suff:

No problem any time. I am humbled.

[kenwoodallpromos]

"PakTribune.com, Pakistan - 56 minutes ago
KANDAHAR: Afghanistan’s Taliban has demanded that Pope Benedict XVI apologise for remarks linking Islam with violence"

[Tom]

Tom,

The problem is the US Congress has NOT declared a "holy war". When it does according to the Constitution, then it is - for us. May be for them, but at this point, not for us.

Oh that is so inteligent!
When someone is waging a war against YOU, you are in it no matter what you think.

[Tom]

We should get him to agree, then attach a crusie missle to it...the only good taliban is a dead one.

[DJofSD]

"Our god is Better Than Yours"

They would never make a statement like that.

They might say our God is the only God and his name is Mohamed. They might even go as far as saying Jesus is not god but only a prophet. But they would never allow any equivocation when it came to their god being the only true god and their religion being the only religion.

[Suff]

They would never make a statement like that.

They might say our God is the only God and his name is Mohamed. They might even go as far as saying Jesus is not god but only a prophet. But they would never allow any equivocation when it came to their god being the only true god and their religion being the only religion.

man. you fella's are something else.

Ok. here's my post....without that small portion.

I read it. I think some people are being a tad intellectually dishonest when they say it was "only one sentence" or that's its not a direct criticism of Islam ( indirectly).

The Pope makes a valid point. An interesting one as well. The way I understand his point is that when you take theology away from the other disciplines. To include, Math, Science, Liberal arts, History, Geography etc etc.. It sickens by the absence of deductive reasoning , and the analogous thought that accompany them.

A cleaner analogy is when Religion grows in its own garden, it grows without boundaries.

He makes that point in his conclusion,

Quote:

We will succeed in doing so only if reason and faith come together in a new way, if we overcome the self-imposed limitation of reason to the empirically verifiable, and if we once more disclose its vast horizons. In this sense theology rightly belongs in the university and within the wide-ranging dialogue of sciences, not merely as a historical discipline and one of the human sciences, but precisely as theology, as inquiry into the rationality of faith.




This may be , as he suggests, a path to reconciliation between the faiths. I temper my criticisms of the knee-jerk reactions of the fanatics, and I will allow a few weeks for a more mature dialogue to build on. Hopefully it occurs.



He refers to ABMs Hanz. A Muslim Scholar who wrote 400 books and supported the idea of no reasoning deduction surrounding the Quran. He had a literal, if not militant position on the Quran.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Hazm

[46zilzal]

a good response would be "So what?" and leave it at that.

[Bala]

Suff - your uninformed long winded tedious posts would make Joseph Goebbels very proud of modern left America. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goebbels

Have you ever considered reading the main source of Islam? There are many english translations of the unholy Quran. http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/

Your understanding of the main tenants of Islam are far below rudimentary. I would suggest you read the words of the prophet Muhammad particularly these passages:

Sura {chapter}
5,85
9,5
4,74-77
9,29
22,25

Nowhere will you find a corresponding chapter and verse in the Christian Bible.

As opposed to <<<my God is better than your God>>> how about western civilization is better than eastern civilization. If you need proof of this then you are truly lost in your political correctness.

I have said it before I'll say it again: while we are told that most Muslims are not terrorists the evidence points to most terrorists being Muslim.

_________________
OutSource congress.

[DJofSD]

have said it before I'll say it again: while we are told that most Muslims are not terrorists the evidence points to most terrorists being Muslim.

A salient but important distinction.

In this age of intellectual laziness, it's far too easy to hang a label on something then leave it at that.

[Tom]

Cartoon printed.
Crowd riots, burn buildings, calls for deaths at newpaper who printed it.
Crowd is wack-jobs.

Blanket statments are often correct.

All Germans were not nazis.
Most nazis were Germans ( some were muslems:rolleyes:)
We bombed everyone, won the war.

Blanket bombing, like blanket statements, are also sometimee correct.

[Tote Master]

Bala
Suff - your uninformed long winded tedious posts would make Joseph Goebbels very proud of modern left America. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goebbels

Have you ever considered reading the main source of Islam? There are many english translations of the unholy Quran. http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/

Your understanding of the main tenants of Islam are far below rudimentary. I would suggest you read the words of the prophet Muhammad particularly these passages:
Sura {chapter}
5,85
9,5
4,74-77
9,29
22,25
Nowhere will you find a corresponding chapter and verse in the Christian Bible.
We might very well come across many more wonderful excerpts from that holy book,
but obviously "Actions speak louder then Words".

Is the Muslim world illiterate? Or does everyone just interpret this book their own way?

I wish the Pope had issued a few more words regarding our Muslim friends!

[Show Me the Wire]

Careful, Tom, about alluding to Islamic reaction to cartoons. Suff might attack you stature and tell you that you have no affect.

[boxcar]

the pope implies the muslims were violent in the past. They get upset and burn churches............. apparently the pope was right............

Yep, their violence carries right into this 21st Century. As a wise man once said, "Ye shall know them by their fruits". And the fruits of Islam are rotten!

Boxcar

[ljb]

As I have said before, the Jews, Christians and Muslims have hated each other since the beggining of each. It is when we let the religious fantatics of these groups control our actions that we get in trouble. We have to go back to seperation of church and state if we expect to survive.

[DJofSD]

As I have said before, the Jews, Christians and Muslims have hated each other since the beggining of each. It is when we let the religious fantatics of these groups control our actions that we get in trouble. We have to go back to seperation of church and state if we expect to survive.

Wrong answer.

First, religious fanatics do not speak for these groups.

Second, they do not control the actions -- that's part of the problem. It's up to the individual -- you've heard of individual responsibility, haven't you?

What do you mean 'we get into trouble'? We is very nebulous and trouble takes on a whole range of meanings.

Your claim that separation of church from state is our salvation is so shallow it's unbelievable. Do you really think that if western civilization was completely agnostic that all things would be just fine and dandy?

Nice try.

[Rpd]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10693313/

Shooting a 60 year old nun in the back.
I guess it starts.

[Tom]

It is allah's will.
mohamed is so great he needs to have nuns killed to protect his name?
Sounds like a pretty pathetic prophet to me!

[JustRalph]

This article is very revealing........

~snippet~
Somalia has been without an effective central government since warlords overthrew it’s longtime dictator in 1991 and divided the nation into fiefdoms. The Islamic fundamentalists have stepped into the vacuum as an alternative military and political power.

The current interim government was established two years ago with the support of the United Nations, but has failed to assert any power outside its base in Baidoa, 150 miles from Mogadishu.

The Islamic group, which seized the capital and much of southern Somalia this summer, is credited with bringing a semblance of order to the country after years of anarchy, but some of its leaders have been linked to al-Qaida and there are fears of an emerging Taliban-style regime.

~end snippet~

[Bala]

As I have said before, the Jews, Christians and Muslims have hated each other since the beggining of each. It is when we let the religious fantatics of these groups control our actions that we get in trouble. We have to go back to seperation of church and state if we expect to survive.
"seperation of church and state" - Does anyone really need to be reminded that secular humanists have kill 100 million people in the past 100 years? All in the search for a perfect society.

"have hated each other" - Jews and Christians have been slaughtered by Muslims since the prophet Muhammad commanded his followers to convert or kill the infidels. This is repeatedly stated in the unholy Koran and the Haddiths. http://snipurl.com/wjvu

The Christian Crusades were a response to Muslims expansion. World domination has always been the goal of Islam. As early as 150 years after Muhammad's death, Muslim armies controlled most of Spain, southern France and southern Italy.

Come to think of it -- modern day France is about to convert now!

Tote Master wrote: "Is the Muslim world illiterate? Or does everyone just interpret this book their own way?"

Whether you are shiite muslim, sunni muslim, or the small minority, sufi muslim, only the Caliph are allowed the prestige of proper interpretation. http://mb-soft.com/believe/txh/calip00.htm So yes, the comman man/woman are forbidden to think indepedently.

_________________
OutSource congress.

[schweitz]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10693313/

Shooting a 60 year old nun in the back.
I guess it starts.

The nun's bodyguard was also killed----

The nun had to have a bodyguard? Unbelievable :mad: :mad:

And many in this country think we can negotiate with these animals.

[DJofSD]

The Christian Crusades were a response to Muslims expansion. World domination has always been the goal of Islam. As early as 150 years after Muhammad's death, Muslim armies controlled most of Spain, southern France and southern Italy.

Come to think of it -- modern day France is about to convert now!

And, one of the tenets of their cult is that once a region has been occupied by followers of Islam, it is always considered an area belonging to Islam and will be re-occupied.

France has about a 10% Muslim population. And just in case you forgot, the riots that broken out all over France last year was upset Muslims.

[boxcar]

The nun's bodyguard was also killed----

The nun had to have a bodyguard? Unbelievable :mad: :mad:

And many in this country think we can negotiate with these animals.

Nothing over which to get your feathers ruffled. Just another isolated, anecdotal-type incident......in a very long chain of them. No need to rush to judgment on this incident. Who knows? The shooter may have had good cause. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[Show Me the Wire]

This article is very revealing........

~snippet~
Somalia has been without an effective central government since warlords overthrew it’s longtime dictator in 1991 and divided the nation into fiefdoms. The Islamic fundamentalists have stepped into the vacuum as an alternative military and political power.

The current interim government was established two years ago with the support of the United Nations, but has failed to assert any power outside its base in Baidoa, 150 miles from Mogadishu.

The Islamic group, which seized the capital and much of southern Somalia this summer, is credited with bringing a semblance of order to the country after years of anarchy, but some of its leaders have been linked to al-Qaida and there are fears of an emerging Taliban-style regime.

~end snippet~

Another failure of Clinton's failed policies. The truly sad part is a future sitting President will have to act to address the problem and be criticized for his actions. All because of Clinton's cut and run foreign policy. Whose hands will the blood of the innocents be upon?

[ljb]

Wrong answer.

First, religious fanatics do not speak for these groups.

Second, they do not control the actions -- that's part of the problem. It's up to the individual -- you've heard of individual responsibility, haven't you?

What do you mean 'we get into trouble'? We is very nebulous and trouble takes on a whole range of meanings.

Your claim that separation of church from state is our salvation is so shallow it's unbelievable. Do you really think that if western civilization was completely agnostic that all things would be just fine and dandy?

Nice try.

First it is the fanatics that motivate these groups to nonsensical actions . eg. Terry Schaivo, 9/11, invasion of Iraq.
I am not sure what your second paragraph means. First you say "their" actions (plural) and then you say individual responsibility. I am responsible for my individual actions but I am not responsible for the pope's actions.
We in this case refers to mankind. You can probably figure out what trouble means by looking at the headlines any day.
Seperation of church and state is a far cry from agnostic.
Try to think a little deeper in all these areas.
And then perhaps I will say "nice try".

[Show Me the Wire]

First it is the fanatics that motivate these groups to nonsensical actions . eg. Terry Schaivo, 9/11, invasion of Iraq.
I am not sure what your second paragraph means. First you say "their" actions (plural) and then you say individual responsibility. I am responsible for my individual actions but I am not responsible for the pope's actions.
We in this case refers to mankind. You can probably figure out what trouble means by looking at the headlines any day.
Seperation of church and state is a far cry from agnostic.
Try to think a little deeper in all these areas.
And then perhaps I will say "nice try".

Did you go to the Rosie O'Donnell learning camp on comparisons? You equate the Terry Schaivo scenario, to 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq?

I am utterly amazed, no icon can express the amazement.

[ljb]

Did you go to the Rosie O'Donnell learning camp on comparisons? You equate the Terry Schaivo scenario, to 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq?

I am utterly amazed, no icon can express the amazement.Glad to see my words amaze you. All these incidents were fired up, motivated by religious fanatics. Now do you get the connection ? Not really that amazing after all.

[Show Me the Wire]

Glad to see my words amaze you. All these incidents were fired up, motivated by religious fanatics. Now do you get the connection ? Not really that amazing after all.


You utterly amaze me, the missionary work in India was initiated by religious fanatics lead by Mother Theresa.

It is not your words that amaze me, it is your critical thinking skills as applied to comparative thinking.

[hcap]

Multiple choice question. All the evils in the world stem mostly from.....

1-Islamocommienazifascism?

2-Welfare queens

3-Lazy etnic groups

4-All politicians

5-Bill Clinton

The votes are in!!

http://images.ucomics.com/comics/wpnan/2006/wpnan060914.gif

[Tom]

I'm stuck at just thinking. :lol:

[DJofSD]

Multiple choice question. All the evils in the world stem mostly from.....

1-Islamocommienazifascism?

2-Welfare queens

3-Lazy etnic groups

4-All politicians

5-Bill Clinton


Semi-serious response: ego. And it's the downfall of liberals.

[JustRalph]

thank you......... took the words right out of my mouth

Threatening the pope and killing a nun might just wake some up.......

[ljb]

You utterly amaze me, the missionary work in India was initiated by religious fanatics lead by Mother Theresa.

It is not your words that amaze me, it is your critical thinking skills as applied to comparative thinking.
Mother Theresa a religious fanatic ? Now you are starting to amaze me.

[ljb]

Multiple choice question. All the evils in the world stem mostly from.....

1-Islamocommienazifascism?

2-Welfare queens

3-Lazy etnic groups

4-All politicians

5-Bill Clinton

The votes are in!!

http://images.ucomics.com/comics/wpnan/2006/wpnan060914.gif
Aw shucks everyone knows It's all Clinton's fault. No need to vote on this one either. :lol:

[ljb]

I'm stuck at just thinking. :lol:
Want me to wake up the fat guy in the bar ? :lol:

[Show Me the Wire]

A fanatic is enthusiastic, devout and has zeal for their beleifs especially on religious subjects.

I think you can describe Mother, as devout, as enthusaistic and had zeal for her religious beliefs.

[ljb]

You folks may want to check out the movie, "Jesus Camp". Are they training tomorrow's terrorists ?

[ljb]

A fanatic is enthusiastic, devout and has zeal for their beleifs especially on religious subjects.

I think you can describe Mother, as devout, as enthusaistic and had zeal for her religious beliefs.
fanatic:
–noun
1. a person with an extreme and uncritical enthusiasm or zeal, as in religion or politics.
–adjective
you left out the uncritical. Makes a difference. Don't you think ?

[Show Me the Wire]

The two sources I used to confirm my understanding do not use uncritical, but they use extreme and Mother could be catagorized as extreme. Sorry didn't leave anything out.

[schweitz]

You folks may want to check out the movie, "Jesus Camp". Are they training tomorrow's terrorists ?

And you need to check out the movie "Obsession".

www.obsessionthemovie.com

[Show Me the Wire]

Any way "uncritical" is not important as it means, not tending to find or call attentions to errors or lacking in discrimination as " She was absolutely uncritical, as she believed everything."

As far as I know she believed everything in her religious faith. So she is uncritical too.

[boxcar]

I tell ya what, folks: Those peace-lovin' Muslims sure know how to get their voices heard when they're riled up, don't they? It's all over the news today about the worldwide Mulsim demonstrations in response to the pope's' remarks.
Sure would be a breath of fresh air to see these kinds of spontaneous reactions around the globe the next time the WhackJobs within their ranks blow up their next innocent, civilian victiims.

Boxcar

[PaceAdvantage]

Dontcha get it boxcar? BUSH and the POPE are in on this together!!! Why, with the BUSH ties to Nazi Germany (you remember those, don't you?) and the POPE being German (coincidence? I think not....) it's only natural that they work together to get the poor, downtrodden Muslims all hot and bothered with a choice sentence or two taken out of context.

It's never the fault of the Muslim people. They are just misunderstood, that's all....it's really Bush's fault....yeah, that's the ticket....another successful PSYOPS notch on the ol' Bush/Cheney belt....and they say he's an idiot, a rutabaga, a dolt!!!!!

In reality, he's an evil genius, dontcha know? Those poor, poor Muslims......so innocent, so docile, so peaceful, so forgiving....

Did you know that you have to actually go through the trouble of reading an ancient conversation aloud, or (Heaven forbid!) draw a cartoon to get them to transform into bloodthirsty killers? Thankfully, extremes like that (reading and drawing) tend to happen so infrequently in life......whew!

[ljb]

Sure would be a breath of fresh air to see these kinds of spontaneous reactions around the globe the next time the WhackJobs within their ranks blow up their next innocent, civilian victiims.

Boxcar
Tell me again, how many dead innocent Iraq civilians since we ousted Saddam and began occupying the country ? Now pretend to not understand this and accuse me of being a muslim lover and anti-American. It will make you feel better.

[JustRalph]

A notorious Muslim extremist told a demonstration in London yesterday that the Pope should face execution.

Anjem Choudary said those who insulted Islam would be "subject to capital punishment".





If these bastards kill the pope.........or blow up a bomb at the Vatican.........I thnk that could be the real straw that turns the world against them.........

[ljb]

A notorious Muslim extremist told a demonstration in London yesterday that the Pope should face execution.

Anjem Choudary said those who insulted Islam would be "subject to capital punishment".





If these bastards kill the pope.........or blow up a bomb at the Vatican.........I thnk that could be the real straw that turns the world against them.........

Damn, does this mean the vatican is going to be invading Greece ? :lol:

[headhawg]

A notorious Muslim extremist told a demonstration in London yesterday that the Pope should face execution.

If these bastards kill the pope.........or blow up a bomb at the Vatican.........I thnk that could be the real straw that turns the world against them.........Why does the Muslim world get a pass on statements like this or the violence they caused because of a cartoon?

Just nuke 'em all and let Allah sort 'em out.

[BenDiesel26]

Tell me again, how many dead innocent Iraq civilians since we ousted Saddam and began occupying the country ? Now pretend to not understand this and accuse me of being a muslim lover and anti-American. It will make you feel better.

Just to clarify, all of these tortured maimed bodies of innocent Iraqi civilians that you read about on a daily basis were killed and tortured by MUSLIMS, not Americans. So to be a Muslim lover would mean that you approve of these killings. To be anti-American would also mean that you approve of these killings which American soldiers risk their lives trying to prevent.

[Tom]

Just to clarify, all of these tortured maimed bodies of innocent Iraqi civilians that you read about on a daily basis were killed and tortured by MUSLIMS, not Americans. So to be a Muslim lover would mean that you approve of these killings. To be anti-American would also mean that you approve of these killings which American soldiers risk their lives trying to prevent.

Exactly!

Cartoons = muslem outrage, riots, violence
Pope quotes old book = muslem outrage, rioits, violence.
Canadian soldiers giving candy to Iraqi children killed by MUSLEM homacide bomber = not a WORD from the muslems - totally acceptabe, apparently.

We should try to negotiate with this brand of animals???????

[Tom]

A notorious Muslim extremist told a demonstration in London yesterday that the Pope should face execution.

Anjem Choudary said those who insulted Islam would be "subject to capital punishment".





If these bastards kill the pope.........or blow up a bomb at the Vatican.........I thnk that could be the real straw that turns the world against them.........

I thought that was 9-11.
My nuke every bastard over there comments 5 years ago don't seem so far off base anymore, do they?
If we killed them all, would it not be allah's will?
Screw this democracy stuff - let the military roll!

[boxcar]

A notorious Muslim extremist told a demonstration in London yesterday that the Pope should face execution.

Anjem Choudary said those who insulted Islam would be "subject to capital punishment".

If these bastards kill the pope.........or blow up a bomb at the Vatican.........I thnk that could be the real straw that turns the world against them.........

Now, now, be patient -- and [b]above all else...TOLERANT! Our resident Mulsim apologist on this board has assured us that "mainstream Islam" that comprises about 99.99999999999% of Muslims in the world are "anti-extemists". They'll be marching and demonstrating and rallying against the WhackJobs any moment now. If not, though, then let's put our faith in the Very Silent Majority, anyway. :rolleyes:

Boxcar

[Rpd]

Now, I think they have gone too far. It's time for action.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14888444/

CAIRO, Egypt - Al-Qaida in Iraq warned Pope Benedict XVI on Monday that its war against Christianity and the West will go on until Islam takes over the world, and Iran’s supreme leader called for more protests over the pontiff’s remarks on Islam.

Time to start up the crusades again?

[DJofSD]

Times UK doesn't think the west can win a war with "the religion of submission." (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,6-2349195,00.html)

[Ponyplayr]

Now, I think they have gone too far. It's time for action.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14888444/



Time to start up the crusades again?
I pray the Serbs lead the charge :)

[Tom]

By thier own actions - the Pope spoke 100% truth.
Perhaps NOW people will wake up to the menece with is islam.
Have the "mainstream" mulsems condemned THIS?

[Rpd]

Interesting:

Times UK doesn't think the west can win a war with "the religion of submission."

My crusade remark was just tongue in cheek. However, we do have one powerful weapon and that is our economic strength and I believe it is time to use it totally. War, whether one believes we can win or not, apparantly is not winning friends or eliminating enemies. It's about time we gave up our devotion to oil anyway. Total 100% economic and assistance boycott of countries that support this nonsense along with the same for some of our so-called European "friends"


7) The seventh reason lies in the moral poverty of the West’s, and especially America’s, own value system. Doctrines of market freedom, free choice and competition — or “freedom ’n’ liberty” — are no match for the ethics of Islam and Sharia, like them or not. Yet in the “battle for hearts and minds” the US First Cavalry Division saw fit to set up “Operation Adam Smith” in Iraq to teach marketing skills, among other things, to local entrepreneurs. There can be no victory here. Or, as Sheikh Mohammed al-Tabatabi told thousands of worshippers in Baghdad in May 2003: “The West calls for freedom and liberty. Islam rejects such liberty. True liberty is obedience to Allah.”

[Rpd]

By thier own actions - the Pope spoke 100% truth.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14888444/

more from the above:

One side says "deeply sorry"

The pontiff said on Sunday he was “deeply sorry” Muslims had been offended by his use of a medieval quotation on Islam and holy war. But he stopped short of retracting a speech seen as portraying Islam as a religion tainted by violence.

Other side says "chop your necks" - Give me a break.

“You infidels and despots, we will continue our jihad (holy war) and never stop until God avails us to chop your necks and raise the fluttering banner of monotheism, when God’s rule is established governing all people and nations,” said the statement by the Mujahedeen Shura Council, an umbrella organization of Sunni Arab extremist groups in Iraq.

[boxcar]

more from the above:

One side says "deeply sorry"

Yeah...and I absolutely love his tactic, for he pulled an oft used Liberal stunt by "apologizing" for someone else being offended. He did not apologize for his own remarks, but for the negative feelings others experienced over those remarks. That's great!

Besides...doesn't Islam know that the pope, as Christ's "vicar" here on earth, is infallible? How can they reasonably expect a real apology from an "infallible" kinda guy? What would a real apology do to Catholic theology? :lol: :lol:

Boxcar

[DJofSD]

English version of the entire speech. (http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/september/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20060912_university-regensburg_en.html)

In the seventh conversation (διάλεξις - controversy) edited by Professor Khoury, the emperor touches on the theme of the holy war. The emperor must have known that surah 2, 256 reads: "There is no compulsion in religion". According to the experts, this is one of the suras of the early period, when Mohammed was still powerless and under threat. But naturally the emperor also knew the instructions, developed later and recorded in the Qur'an, concerning holy war. Without descending to details, such as the difference in treatment accorded to those who have the "Book" and the "infidels", he addresses his interlocutor with a startling brusqueness, a brusqueness which leaves us astounded, on the central question about the relationship between religion and violence in general, saying: "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached". The emperor, after having expressed himself so forcefully, goes on to explain in detail the reasons why spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable. Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul. "God", he says, "is not pleased by blood - and not acting reasonably (σὺν λόγω) is contrary to God's nature. Faith is born of the soul, not the body. Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence and threats... To convince a reasonable soul, one does not need a strong arm, or weapons of any kind, or any other means of threatening a person with death...".

[JustRalph]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HlaVpqUXF0&eurl=

[JustRalph]

interesting video.......of a lady who is probably on a death list now.........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciOGS6r97oE&eurl=

[BenDiesel26]

interesting video.......of a lady who is probably on a death list now.........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciOGS6r97oE&eurl=

That's a great video, but you can see that her words fall on deaf ears as to no one's surprise, the Muslim cleric tells her her words mean nothing since she is a heretic of Islam.

[Tom]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HlaVpqUXF0&eurl=


This is why I said before - target their women and children, the future terrorists and terrorist machines.

They kill thier own, why shouldn't we?

[hcap]

Islamo-commie-nazi-maoism-hitlerism-stalinism-fascism??? Feel free to add another ism. Maybe undergarmints are too tightism?

http://www.harpers.org/sb-six-questions-emile-nakhleh-1158706094.html

Dr. Emile A. Nakhleh served in the CIA for 15 years and retired on June 30, 2006, as the Director of the Political Islam Strategic Analysis Program, the intelligence community's premier group dedicated to the issue of political Islam. His research has focused on political Islam, political and educational reform, regime stability, and governance in the greater Middle East. Nakhleh was awarded several senior intelligence commendation medals, including the Director's Medal and the Distinguished Career Intelligence Medal. He is also a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. While at the CIA, Nakhleh briefed the “highest policymakers”—he is not allowed to identify them by name—on issues related to the war on terrorism. In 2002, he traveled to the Guantanamo Bay prison and interviewed numerous detainees over the course of an 11-day stay. Before joining the CIA he worked as a university professor for a quarter-century, and in that capacity traveled widely in the Arab world, including Iraq. I recently interviewed Nakhleh and asked him about Iraq and the Bush Administration's “war on terrorism.” This is the first interview he has granted since leaving the CIA.

6. Is there an inherent threat to Western democracies from the Islamic world?

No, there's only a threat from those who use Islam for ideological reasons and who are willing to employ violence. There are 1.4 billion people in the Islamic world and only a tiny minority, maybe 2 or 3 percent, are politically active. Just like Jews and Christians, most have kids to raise and bills to pay. Most view Islam as a personal and societal force, not a political one, and only a tiny minority becomes terrorists. There are hundreds of political parties in the Muslim world, in Indonesia, Malaysia, Bahrain, Kuwait, Morocco, Yemen, Pakistan, Nigeria, Pakistan, and Bangladesh. Those parties and their supporters have participated in many elections, and some times they have won and some times they have lost, but they have largely recognized the results. Not all are necessarily interested in creating Sharia societies. Even Hamas highlighted its opposition to Israel and service to society, not religious issues. Political Islam is not a threat—the threat is if people become disenchanted with the political process and democracy, and opt for violence. There is a real danger from a few terrorists and we should go after them, but the longer-term threat is that people opt out of the system. We need to not only speak out in favor of democracy and political reform, but also act on that as well.

[Tote Master]

How many times is “political”, “political Islam”, and other such references mentioned in just the 2 paragraphs listed above. Paragraphs that I assume were quoted from some other (unknown) source. Apparently even its repetition had no impact on the reader (poster), but it’s supposed to have some impact on this thread? Not to anyone with common sense I’m afraid.

It simply amazes me that someone could take information that refers to “political Islam” and present it as something that is relevant (or even important) to this thread. There’s an obvious distinction between what the Pope was referring to by mentioning what a Byzantine Emperor had stated 600 years ago. It certainly wasn’t anything related to Islamic politics. No, in fact it was related to the religious aspects of the Muslim tradition based on its holy book and its originator as applied to the expansion of this cult.

I wonder if this same person has taken the time to even bother reading the entire recital presented by the Pope and if so, attempt to comprehend its real purpose (as related to Roman Catholicism today): As faith based religion being taught within an institution of higher learning.

This recital in no way had anything to do with Islamic politics (yesterday or today) and very little to do with Muslims period. Unfortunately while simple-minded people are often easily amused, they are also easily confused.

Better luck next time!

[ljb]

You know with all this banter under the topic "The Pope", I thought i would share with you a little known fact. This piece of news never made the msm but may be of interest to some here.
"When the cardinals first voted to elect a new Pope they used the Diebold voting machines and ..........
Bush won. They went back to paper ballots."
Just a little info for your enlightment and/or pleasure. ;)

[Show Me the Wire]

Maybe the real reason was it was too hard to burn the voting macines.

[tahoesid]

Maybe the Pope didn't apoligize for what he said because there was nothing to apoligize for.


Seems to me has more balls than most of the politically correct people out there.

[Tote Master]

tahoesid
Maybe the Pope didn't apoligize for what he said because there was nothing to apoligize for.

Seems to me has more balls than most of the politically correct people out there EXACTLY!

[Tom]

As the Pope keeps reaching out to try to tone tis down, and to try to bridge the gap between islam and Chritianity, it would appear HIS is the reliogion of love and peace, wouldn't it?
I mean, for evey gesture of peace, another muslem burns something.

And we are supposed to negotiate with these..."people?"

:lol::lol::lol: