View Full Version : Situation Called Dire in West Iraq
Secretariat
09-11-2006, 12:25 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/10/AR2006091001204.html
Situation Called Dire in West Iraq
Anbar Is Lost Politically, Marine Analyst Says
By Thomas E. Ricks
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, September 11, 2006; Page A01
The chief of intelligence for the Marine Corps in Iraq recently filed an unusual secret report concluding that the prospects for securing that country's western Anbar province are dim and that there is almost nothing the U.S. military can do to improve the political and social situation there, said several military officers and intelligence officials familiar with its contents.
The officials described Col. Pete Devlin's classified assessment of the dire state of Anbar as the first time that a senior U.S. military officer has filed so negative a report from Iraq.
JustRalph
09-11-2006, 12:47 PM
you are not the AP news service. Jesus, we can all read the news. You are a joke.
You added nothing to the article. No comments, nothing? You just post the link because you think it makes our country look bad. We get your agenda. Enough..........
kenwoodallpromos
09-11-2006, 02:36 PM
"One view of the report offered by some Marine officers is that it is a cry for help from an area where fighting remains intense, yet which recently has been neglected by top commanders and Bush administration officials as they focus on bringing a sense of security to Baghdad. An Army unit of Stryker light armored vehicles that had been slated to replace another unit in Anbar was sent to reinforce operations in Baghdad".
THis was known earlier, yes.
I'm sure whatever the report says may be accurate (WP says they did not see it or have quotes from it), but I certainly cannot form an opinion from 3rd hand infol on a classified document related by intel and military officers who are committing crimes first of all by spreading info from it. I had just a "classified" clearance in the Navy becauise I sometimes carried classified material while o9n quarterdeck watch, and because I sometimes had to takle the burn bags to be burned; but any dispensing of calssified or higher material without permission is a UCMJ crime.
Since I believe Anbar is where we killed the big AL Kida guy, and since assets and troops are being moved from there to Baghdad, it is obvious why it is classified and why releasing the info in it could result in more attacks and possibly deaths of our boys and girls. Nothing to do with hiding anything for political motives.
____
We had something over 100,000 troops in Iraq, a country of over 26 million and vast undeveloped areas. The Iraqi army has previously been doing some fighting in the 2 big cities there, as reported earlier. We and they are probably doing whatever can be done in that area right now.
And I would like to hear Sec's opinion on the fact that NATO has troops in AFG. that are doing some real stuff, killling many Taliban and helping out our and AfG's soldiers.
bigmack
09-11-2006, 03:46 PM
you are not the AP news service. Jesus, we can all read the news. You are a joke.
JR has more than a valid point Sec. Revelling in every story that comes off the wires that suits your want of our struggle there being more than difficult, borders on the macabre
boxcar
09-11-2006, 03:55 PM
Most Libs, I believe, revel in bad news for America. I don't ever recall any Lib on this forum posting articles or stories that report good news about the war effort. And there's plenty of it out there, depsite the fact that their willing accomplices in the mainstream media will conveniently ignore that kind of news, also. This is why I have long maintained that good news for America is bad news for the Libs. Good news gives 'em nothing to complain or whine about.
Boxcar
PlanB
09-11-2006, 03:56 PM
SEC, I hope you're wrong in the scope of such bad news. If not, then the
2,600 US soldiers already dead (and >30,000 MAIMED) has been all for zero.
I hope you're wrong SEC.
Hey Sec....where are your :jump: when you put down America?
You must be having a great day today, of all days!
:ThmbDown::ThmbDown::ThmbDown:
Secretariat
09-11-2006, 09:56 PM
JR has more than a valid point Sec. Revelling in every story that comes off the wires that suits your want of our struggle there being more than difficult, borders on the macabre
Who the hell is revelling in it? This is what many Repubs on this board claim when a liberal posts the truth as reported by the Washington Post.
It is not me saying this. It is "the chief of intelligence for the Marine Corps" and it is reported in one of the most pretigious papers in the country. I get tired of the rosy scenarios we've been lied about "We'll be greeted as liberators" BS and "We know where the WMD's are" crap.
This is actual news, not administration propaganda, and important news. Granted it is not good news. Neither was Normandy for the Third Reich nor Hiroshima for Tojo. But unlike those regimes it is critical that in a democracy people face both the bad and the good.
What should we do pretend all is going well, and live with lies? I do not revel in this news. However, I think pretending it is not occurring is not being responsible to the commanders in the field that are reporting this info. This is not Ted Kennedy reporting this but the "chief of intelligence for the Marine Corps."
The problem is not me revelling in bad news, (I abhor it), but the problem is that many Repubs on this boards failure to face real news versus fantasy docudramas.
And Tom, are you saying that "the chief of intelligence for the Marine Corps" is putting down America, because it is his words in the post, not mine.
No Sec, I am saying YOU are. YOU posted it here, without comment, to further your own personal agenda. and you damn well know it. And today, I have no stomache for your bullshit, so sue me.
Secretariat
09-11-2006, 11:11 PM
No Sec, I am saying YOU are. YOU posted it here, without comment, to further your own personal agenda. and you damn well know it. And today, I have no stomache for your bullshit, so sue me.
I posted it because it is a serious news article. I get no joy in reporting it, in fact just the opposite. It bothers me a lot.
Why is it whenever real news is posted, rather than fictional documdrama news reported you find that objectionable? As you say, I have no stomach for that kind of bullshit either, so sue me.
46zilzal
09-11-2006, 11:13 PM
Did the same thing in no child left behind.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/09/11/iraq.deaths.ap/index.html
PaceAdvantage
09-12-2006, 01:57 AM
The problem is not me revelling in bad news, (I abhor it), but the problem is that many Repubs on this boards failure to face real news versus fantasy docudramas.
It's good to hear you place Fahrenheit 9/11 in its proper category:
Fantasy Docudrama....I like that!
JustRalph
09-12-2006, 06:58 AM
yes, but we all have internet connections.........we don't need you posting news items that are front and center on a thousand other sites. Unless you have some opinion that is different, or you have a certain point from the article that you would like to discuss. You didn't post a damn thing with it? You just post it and sit back and revel in the fact that you just made everyone aware! At least you think you did.
Sometimes I post articles, but I normally make a comment about it, or quote the part that I want to discuss. Or maybe come back to the thread a couple of hours later and start a discussion about it, with or without other posts. Either way, I am not posting just to "inform" someone of some point that furthers my agenda.......unless it is counterpoint to something that has already been posted. But I always end up discussing it or leading off with some point.............you don't. For some reason you think we can't read the news online? You think you are pointing all of us toward the end of the rainbow you call enlightenment..........take my word for it.....of all the news sources available now..........your agenda filled posts are way down the list. Especially when your posts are based on the theme of the day emails from the DNC and Moveon.org etc. yeah, you are not the only one on the email lists.
Secretariat
09-12-2006, 01:20 PM
Sometimes I post articles, but I normally make a comment about it, or quote the part that I want to discuss.
The article spoke for itself, without me saying "what do you think terrible isn't it?". I've seen many people post articles here without editorializing. Maybe you saw the article, but many did not. If I feel it is something worth posting for discussion I will. The approach to attack me because people may not like the contents of the article is avoiding the issues raised by the article, for whatever personal reason those are. I don't state that every article you post here is to serve your agenda. I could say that, but I beleive it is something that bothers you or you feel strongly about. I simply ask that this post be treated with the same civility and respect.
JustRalph
09-12-2006, 01:33 PM
I think several agree with me.
JPinMaryland
09-12-2006, 02:26 PM
I'd rather people post stories with some sort of op-ed or some sort of summary....
Having said that, I dont understand why people think anybody needs to stand up and be a cheering section for the good ole USA.
It is an abstract concept after all, this USA. Just like any nation, kingdom, political party, religion, corporation, whatever. There is nothing inherently good or humane in any of these entities. They should be treated at arm's length and only if they can be used to benefit man. To think that man was made to serve these abstractions is idiotic.
As soon as people finally figure it out, and stop getting on the bandwagon and cheering on whatever dogma happens to be in their neighborhood the sooner that institutional types of evil will end.
kenwoodallpromos
09-12-2006, 03:24 PM
The article spoke for itself, without me saying "what do you think terrible isn't it?". I've seen many people post articles here without editorializing. Maybe you saw the article, but many did not. If I feel it is something worth posting for discussion I will. The approach to attack me because people may not like the contents of the article is avoiding the issues raised by the article, for whatever personal reason those are. I don't state that every article you post here is to serve your agenda. I could say that, but I beleive it is something that bothers you or you feel strongly about. I simply ask that this post be treated with the same civility and respect.
_
Respect? why shouldanyone treat a post with "respect" whenthe supposed report was not seen or quoted by the media source? They got 2nd hand information from peole breaking the law who are not quoting it, the media just printing 2nd hand paraphrasing and opinion, when the article itself asys the conclusions were disputed by mote than 1 other in higher positions?
Then you bitch about Bush's (Clinton guy Tentant's) conclusions based on "bad intel"?
meanwhile, you are still rantiong about no one supporting Bush's efforts when I posted about 20,00 NATO troops in Afghan?
Your innocent posting of yellow journalism based on sources practicing illegal activities who spin without text is showing no respect for the members of PA forums, so it deserves no respect in return.
I consider myself impartial and agree with some of the libs on this forum on several things, but i will not acknowledge that if the message is based on flaming ramblings without facts.
46zilzal
09-12-2006, 04:31 PM
almost 2700 dead and for what? zilch
well the other side would say the neocons have provided them with encourgement.
46zilzal
09-12-2006, 04:40 PM
looking into this book from fellows who can tell it like it is.
Secretariat
09-12-2006, 04:56 PM
_
Respect? why shouldanyone treat a post with "respect" whenthe supposed report was not seen or quoted by the media source? They got 2nd hand information from peole breaking the law who are not quoting it, the media just printing 2nd hand paraphrasing and opinion, when the article itself asys the conclusions were disputed by mote than 1 other in higher positions?
Then you bitch about Bush's (Clinton guy Tentant's) conclusions based on "bad intel"?
meanwhile, you are still rantiong about no one supporting Bush's efforts when I posted about 20,00 NATO troops in Afghan?
Your innocent posting of yellow journalism based on sources practicing illegal activities who spin without text is showing no respect for the members of PA forums, so it deserves no respect in return.
I consider myself impartial and agree with some of the libs on this forum on several things, but i will not acknowledge that if the message is based on flaming ramblings without facts.
Well, excuse me. The Washington Post is not the Worker's Daily. As for second hand news, that's what reporters have always done. You honestly don't think the Bush administration is going to actually hold a press conference and inform the American people that the situation in West Iraq is dire. You don't honestly believe that an active military officer is going to go on line and risk his career to question the mission. That's what reprters do. They dig for information, and try and protect their sources.
As to your Tenet comment - go back and read the latest GOP Senate Intelligence Report on what Tenet said. Enough of that as it doesn't even relate to this issue, but you brought it up.
I have no idea what you are talking about me ranting about no one supporting Bush with 20,000 NATO troops in Afghanistan. When are you guys going to get it here? We ALL support the Afganistan incursion. There are not 20,000 NATO troops in I-R-A-Q and for a very good reason.
So let me get this straight. It is considered legitimate journalism when Robert Novak quotes unnamed sources in outing a CIA agent and it is posted here as legitimate news, but when a Washington Post reporter quotes unnamed military sources revealing a dire report on the status of Western Iraq, then it is yellow journalism. Please explain to me that difference.
So let me get this straight. It is considered legitimate journalism when Robert Novak quotes unnamed sources in outing a CIA agent and it is posted here as legitimate news, but when a Washington Post reporter quotes unnamed military sources revealing a dire report on the status of Western Iraq, then it is yellow journalism. Please explain to me that difference.
Question, wasn't Novak doing his as an oped piece? Your post was a reporter doing a news report. Isn't there a difference? I stand to be corrected.
Secretariat
09-12-2006, 05:14 PM
Question, wasn't Novak doing his as an oped piece? Your post was a reporter doing a news report. Isn't there a difference? I stand to be corrected.
On July 14, Novak's column ran, naming Plame for the first time and saying two senior administration officials had provided him the information.
This was then picked up by every news agency in the country INCLUDING the paper Novak writes for as NEWS, not opinion!!!
If you don't name your sources, your are unreliabe - no matter what side you are on.
On July 14, Novak's column ran, naming Plame for the first time and saying two senior administration officials had provided him the information.
This was then picked up by every news agency in the country INCLUDING the paper Novak writes for as NEWS, not opinion!!!
Once again Sec, you picked Novak and a news report and try to compare the two as equal. Using your example, Rush and Sean's comments would be NEWS just because they are picked up by every news agency in the country? I love it.
Secretariat
09-12-2006, 11:07 PM
Once again Sec, you picked Novak and a news report and try to compare the two as equal. Using your example, Rush and Sean's comments would be NEWS just because they are picked up by every news agency in the country? I love it.
You should love it Snag, because when Rush and Sean cite two senior administration officials it is news. Bob novak has been considered one of the leading conservative journalists for decades. If you are naive enough to beleive that when he says information came from sources within the WH, that it is not news then you are deluding yourself. Of course he did not release his source at that time, as did the Washington Post writer.
JPinMaryland
09-12-2006, 11:20 PM
does anyone have any comment on the news item/yellow dog journalism article itself? I for one have no first hand or second hand knowledge of what is going on there. Although from the history of what has been reported it seems clear that this section of Iraq has been a thorn for a while and the US military has spent significant effortd in this area. So it would not be a shock if the story had some truth to it...
Secretariat
09-12-2006, 11:27 PM
does anyone have any comment on the news item/yellow dog journalism article itself? I for one have no first hand or second hand knowledge of what is going on there. Although from the history of what has been reported it seems clear that this section of Iraq has been a thorn for a while and the US military has spent significant effortd in this area. So it would not be a shock if the story had some truth to it...
JP,
The story was also reported in NBC news tonight as well.
JPinMaryland
09-12-2006, 11:32 PM
I have to admit I have not watched/listened to much news in the past few days. I go through phases like this where I just get tired of it. Pretty much been football the last week or ten days. Just lost track of much of this. They are doing local elections in these parts, you cant help but see the signs.
Secretariat
09-12-2006, 11:54 PM
JP,
You're a fair and open guy. I respect that. Heard they had some voting machine issues in Maryland tonight.
JPinMaryland
09-13-2006, 12:16 AM
Really? I have no interest in local politics, have seen some of these types in action and they're very scary.
I dont know why there cant be one freakin national presidential ballot and you can just go to the polls do this one vote for president and that's it. Here's what gets me:
They show these people voting in the Iraq elections, the people with the purple thumbs....
Right? YOu know you could vote in that election if you were in London, England. Or in New York. Or some other places 10,000 miles away from Iraq.
So why the hell cant I vote in a presidential election without having to go to a local precint in my home address? I cant even vote in Baltimore MD, the same state, but no I have to be in some freakin precinct...
How does that make any sense? People in Iraq who never voted in their life can vote for pres. 10,000 mile away and I cant do it if Im in my home state?
PaceAdvantage
09-13-2006, 01:39 AM
almost 2700 dead and for what? zilch
Oh, so much more than zilch. I say, up until now, it's been worth it....2700 soldiers killed over 3+ years isn't really all that shocking, as far as wars go....I think Gen. Schwarzkopf would agree with my admittedly callous thought here....
1 dead is 1 too many, but as far as modern wars go, I don't think you can hang your hat on that stat....
Unfortunately things are not going well in Iraq.
Methinks this war has been poorly managed and somebody's head should roll.
Here is a link to a report from a commander in Iraq.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060913/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_anbar
On July 14, Novak's column ran, naming Plame for the first time and saying two senior administration officials had provided him the information.
This was then picked up by every news agency in the country INCLUDING the paper Novak writes for as NEWS, not opinion!!!
Well you are not going to like Novak's column Thursday this week - You MUST read it, post it, copmment on it, let's start a new thread and disect the hell out of it. You HAVE to be on top of this one, Sec. :lol:
Well you are not going to like Novak's column Thursday this week - You MUST read it, post it, copmment on it, let's start a new thread and disect the hell out of it. You HAVE to be on top of this one, Sec. :lol:
10 will get you 5 Sec will have a comment but not about the column. :lol:
Secretariat
09-14-2006, 02:31 PM
10 will get you 5 Sec will have a comment but not about the column. :lol:
Post me a link to the column and I'll take a look. I don't want to have to pay to read Novak.
But you're right I will post a comment about something other than the column until someone posts a link to it.
http://news.yahoo.com/fc/World/Iraq/
Judge tells Saddam: "You are not a dictator"
Reuters
BAGHDAD - The judge in Saddam Hussein's genocide trial said on Thursday he did not think the ousted Iraqi leader was a "dictator," prompting a spokesman for the U.S.-sponsored court to defend its impartiality. Abdulla al-Amiri made his comments one day after prosecutors demanded his resignation,
complaining that he was too soft on Saddam, who had threatened to "crush the heads" of his accusers. They also complained he let Saddam make long speeches in court.
...
Is it possible that Hussein may get off? My God, I thought this was a foregone conclusion he would be executed. I may be a liberal, and think we were nuits to go into Iraq, but I sure have always beleived Saddam Hussein was a dictator. Now the judge doesn't?
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=15988
"In my sworn testimony, I said what I have contended in my columns and on television: Joe Wilson's wife's role in instituting her husband's mission was revealed to me in the middle of a long interview with an official who I have previously said was not a political gunslinger. After the federal investigation was announced, he told me through a third party that the disclosure was inadvertent on his part. "
Secretariat
09-14-2006, 07:49 PM
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=15988
"In my sworn testimony, I said what I have contended in my columns and on television: Joe Wilson's wife's role in instituting her husband's mission was revealed to me in the middle of a long interview with an official who I have previously said was not a political gunslinger. After the federal investigation was announced, he told me through a third party that the disclosure was inadvertent on his part. "
I read it. Thanks. Why would this disturb me?
He admits Rove was a leak, and he confirmed via Harlow. He does not reveal the third leak which could be either Armitage or Libby - regardless both are administration leaks.
Finding out who Joe Wilson's wife is not that difficult. Revealing that she is a classified CIA operative (who by the way was working on WMD's for the CIA) is treasonous. The question is who will be held accountable. If Novak was working in ignorance, and Fitzgerald passes on him, someone such as Armitage, or Libby still have to address charges. Additionally, Libby is up for perjury charges as well, and Fitzgerald has not announced his findings at this time. Rove admitted he leaked the information, and Novak affirms in the article. IMO he should be held accountable, but probably won't be. If anyone in the Clinton adminstraiton revealed a CIA operative the GOP would be clamoring for his head and you know it. And rightly so.
Not exactly the vengeful scenario you and Hcap painted, now was it?
You and ljb should get on the America dancing show - between his spinning and your two stepping, you guys would be unbeatable. Tucker found out dancing isn't as easy as libs make it look! :lol:
Secretariat
09-14-2006, 10:15 PM
Not exactly the vengeful scenario you and Hcap painted, now was it?
We don't know yet. We're waiting on Fitzgerald's findings.
You keep wating, Sec....keep waiting.
Call me when someone gets indicted.
If I'm still alive.
We don't know yet. We're waiting on Fitzgerald's findings.
And waiting, and waiting, and.........give it up Sec.
Lefty
09-14-2006, 10:27 PM
almost 2700 dead and for what? zilch
well the other side would say the neocons have provided them with encourgement.
Tell that to the Kurds who have actually made a video thanking the U.S. for freeing them from Saddam. Tell it to the millions that risked their lives to vote. It amazes me that people like you who have never lived in oppression can be so cavalier with other peoples' dreams of freedom and democracy.
JustRalph
09-15-2006, 08:48 AM
We don't know yet. We're waiting on Fitzgerald's findings.
Oh yeah, Fitzmas............... Santy Claus is dead..........if he does indict anybody he will be scorned publicly over it............ :lol:
Tell that to the Kurds who have actually made a video thanking the U.S. for freeing them from Saddam. Tell it to the millions that risked their lives to vote. It amazes me that people like you who have never lived in oppression can be so cavalier with other peoples' dreams of freedom and democracy.
Lefty,
You forgot the millions in Darfur who are being massacred while the world ignores it. No oil there hmmmm ?
And please share with us your experiences while living in oppression.
You keep wating, Sec....keep waiting.
Call me when someone gets indicted.
If I'm still alive.
Tom,
Glad to see you are still posting and alive. When I first saw the news reports of that dude in Montreal going on a shooting rampage and then killing himself, i thought......
Lefty
09-15-2006, 11:39 AM
Lefty,
You forgot the millions in Darfur who are being massacred while the world ignores it. No oil there hmmmm ?
And please share with us your experiences while living in oppression.
Yes, there's genocide going on there, none coming to America to kill us. But this is the United Nations purvue and they're doing a pissy job. I didn't say I lived in oppression,buti have the capacity to "feel" for those that are. Unlike a lot of libs. Arianna Huffington said to O'Reilly when he said the Kurds are happy to be free of Saddam. She said, "So what?" So much for liberal compassion.
The U.N. should get tough in Darfur and settle that, that's what They're SUPPOSED to be all about. Meanwhile we have to concentrate our forces on those that would kill us, and the people we free along the way are happy icing on the cake.
Yes, there's genocide going on there, none coming to America to kill us. But this is the United Nations purvue and they're doing a pissy job. I didn't say I lived in oppression,buti have the capacity to "feel" for those that are. Unlike a lot of libs. Arianna Huffington said to O'Reilly when he said the Kurds are happy to be free of Saddam. She said, "So what?" So much for liberal compassion.
The U.N. should get tough in Darfur and settle that, that's what They're SUPPOSED to be all about. Meanwhile we have to concentrate our forces on those that would kill us, and the people we free along the way are happy icing on the cake.
You have the capacity to "feel" for those that are ? :lol:
I have to agree with Arianna. So what ? If we want to concentrate our forces on those that would kill us why are we in Iraq ? Osama been forgotten is in Afghanistan/Pakistan.
Osama been forgotten is in Afghanistan/Pakistan.
Care to site your sources? Maybe just more spin?
JPinMaryland
09-15-2006, 11:29 PM
It seems the consensus is that he's in Pakistan. Every so called expert Ive seen on tv seems to say this in the last few weeks. I bet if you googled it you could figure this out on your own, it seems to be the conventional wisdom.
It seems the consensus is that he's in Pakistan. Every so called expert Ive seen on tv seems to say this in the last few weeks. I bet if you googled it you could figure this out on your own, it seems to be the conventional wisdom.
JP, you may have missed my point. ljb wants us to think that Osama has been forgotten because he distrusts this administration. I was asking him for his source to back up his statement that Osama has been forgotten. I feel his statement is just more spin.
JPinMaryland
09-16-2006, 06:39 PM
oh, I guess you were quoting a different part then...
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