Michael Moore

[sq764]

What a great, great human being this fellow is.. I see he's coming out both barrells loaded with his 2 new films..

I found part of this article quite comical:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,213146,00.html

"For one thing, Moore revealed that in the days after he won the Academy Award for “Bowling from Columbine,” he was harassed on the street, physically attacked with a cup of hot Starbucks coffee and subjected to having manure dumped on his front yard by neighbors."

[46zilzal]

new movie about HMO's has a great title: SICKO

[sq764]

new movie about HMO's has a great title: SICKO
There's an obesity epidemic in this country, when is that fat piece of obese shit going to make a movie about that?

He's against autobiographies I guess?

[twindouble]

There's an obesity epidemic in this country, when is that fat piece of obese shit going to make a movie about that?

He's against autobiographies I guess?

The guy has !@# for brains, being over weight has nothing to do with it. Put both my sons together and your talking over 500 lb's, nicest guys you'll ever meet and they had no problem getting the girls, a few you would die for.

Just keep in mind, the fat man isn't fat, he's skinny and rides racing bikes.


T.D.

[ljb]

There's an obesity epidemic in this country, when is that fat piece of obese shit going to make a movie about that?

He's against autobiographies I guess?
I guess this means you don't care for Michael Moore ? It is understandable that Moore is represented negatively by many, he did gain his fame speaking out against some corporate actions and policies. Also you may want to watch your obscenities, not sure if all your words pass the tos.

[twindouble]

I guess this means you don't care for Michael Moore ? It is understandable that Moore is represented negatively by many, he did gain his fame speaking out against some corporate actions and policies. Also you may want to watch your obscenities, I believe this board has a code of ethics.

Yes your right on obscenities, I'll try to delete it as long as you start telling the truth, you know the code of ethics as well as anyone here.



T.D.

[ljb]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[twindouble]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Shoot ljb you blind sided me, wanted to get a rise out you.:p

[46zilzal]

These guys are always unpopular for challenging the status quo, with possiblities

[Tom]

Challenging? Possibilities?
I think you mean bullshit, pardner.
MM is about a challenging as a fart after a chili cook off. And nearly as meaningful. :lol:

[46zilzal]

There are many folks out in the world with minds open enough to listen to differing points of view and then evaluate them on their own. Not a lot but a few.

[46zilzal]

Challenging? Possibilities?
I think you mean bullshit, pardner.
MM is about a challenging as a fart after a chili cook off. And nearly as meaningful.
I remember, you don't like to "test drive" anything

[ljb]

Challenging? Possibilities?
I think you mean bullshit, pardner.
MM is about a challenging as a fart after a chili cook off. And nearly as meaningful. :lol:
Does this mean you don't care for Michael's work ? Or are you just spouting your corporate pawn rhetoric ? :lol:

[GameTheory]

Wait wait wait... so *anyone* who says *anything* negative about the "status quo" and "corporate actions and policies" without regard to the truth should be praised for their "differing point of view"? I don't think so. Michael Moore is a compulsive liar with an agenda. Having an pre-determined agenda is an enemy to truth, and the fact that he seems to lie about some things for no reason at all other than he likes to lie doesn't help either.

I'm all for praising those who tackle issues with an OPEN MIND in an effort to find the truth and to the speak that truth, whether it challenges the status quo or corporate interests or not. I'm even willing to give some praise to a truth-seeker that messes it up somewhat and still reveals bias. We're all human, after all.

But Michael Moore is the opposite of a truth-seeker. He is a propaganda machine. He takes his pre-determined view of things and IMPOSES it on whatever he's looking at by distorting reality and ignoring facts wherever it suits him. That is not praise-worthy, it is contemptible.

[JPinMaryland]

about the only comprehensible part of "Roger and I" was when the corporate guy essentially told him: "Look we dont owe people jobs. There was no money to be made here and so the jobs left town..." Whole movie could have been summarized right there.

What was Bowling for Columbine like?

[ljb]

Wait wait wait... so *anyone* who says *anything* negative about the "status quo" and "corporate actions and policies" without regard to the truth should be praised for their "differing point of view"? I don't think so. Michael Moore is a compulsive liar with an agenda. Having an pre-determined agenda is an enemy to truth, and the fact that he seems to lie about some things for no reason at all other than he likes to lie doesn't help either.

I'm all for praising those who tackle issues with an OPEN MIND in an effort to find the truth and to the speak that truth, whether it challenges the status quo or corporate interests or not. I'm even willing to give some praise to a truth-seeker that messes it up somewhat and still reveals bias. We're all human, after all.

But Michael Moore is the opposite of a truth-seeker. He is a propaganda machine. He takes his pre-determined view of things and IMPOSES it on whatever he's looking at by distorting reality and ignoring facts wherever it suits him. That is not praise-worthy, it is contemptible.

Have you seen any of Mr. Moore's films ? You seem to have a strong opinion of opposition to his work.

[GameTheory]

Have you seen any of Mr. Moore's films ? You seem to have a strong opinion of opposition to his work.Yes, plus my background in is filmmaking which makes his tricks all the more obvious to me. I'm amazed they aren't obvious to everyone...

[lsbets]

Yes, plus my background in is filmmaking which makes his tricks all the more obvious to me. I'm amazed they aren't obvious to everyone...

Having seen his movies I find it impossible to think that his tricks aren't obvious to everyone. I just think there are those who think his outright lying and distortions of the truth are a good thing because it suits their agenda. But, there are those who do seem to live in an alternate universe and might actually believe that MM is a voice of truth.

[ljb]

Yes, plus my background in is filmmaking which makes his tricks all the more obvious to me. I'm amazed they aren't obvious to everyone...
by tricks are you reffering to the clip of Bush in white tie and tails saying "my kind of people, the haves and the have mores." or was it the clip of Bush joking about looking for wmds while the crowed laughed cheerfully. All this while our troops were being killed/maimed in Iraq ? Are those a couple of the tricks you are talking about or are there others that upset you ?
Ls, Your opinion is appreciated on this topic also.

[GameTheory]

by tricks are you reffering to the clip of Bush in white tie and tails saying "my kind of people, the haves and the have mores." or was it the clip of Bush joking about looking for wmds while the crowed laughed cheerfully. All this while our troops were being killed/maimed in Iraq ? Are those a couple of the tricks you are talking about or are there others that upset you ?
Ls, Your opinion is appreciated on this topic also.I have not watched the 9/11 film except in parts on TV so I will not comment about that. Seeing the first two films was enough for me. I'm talking about his editing tricks which are so sloppy I can't believe anyone takes his films seriously, like when he pieces together events that never occurred. When a film-maker does that -- shows you something that never happened -- which is obvious because the FOOTAGE DOESN'T MATCH hello. AND when it can be easily PROVEN it never happened because the raw material is available to anyone (in those cases where Moore himself didn't shoot it) -- WHAT ELSE DO YOU NEED TO KNOW? Why would you waste one more second on the guy?

Answer: you also have no integrity, you also care nothing about truth, and anyone who says anything fitting your agenda is ok with you.

Look, there are liars and propagandists on all sides of all issues. But you guys that are never willing to criticize "one of your own" have no integrity. Isn't it obvious that people might be more willing to listen to you if you showed that you actually cared about facts and truth rather than just parroting the party line?

That's why Moore is detestable. It doesn't matter if *sometimes* he is correct about something because a broken clock is right twice a day. The point is that he doesn't care whether he tells the truth or not. To me, there can be no debate about the truthfulness of Moore. He has been caught in so many lies it is absurd. Anyone who defends Michael Moore is a liar. Those who agree with Michael Moore on the issues should be his harshest critics. Guys like Moore make your side look bad becuase his lack of integrity and lies are so obvious. Don't you realize what a great Sista Soldier moment it would be for the left to denounce Moore?

[GameTheory]

by tricks are you reffering to the clip of Bush in white tie and tails saying "my kind of people, the haves and the have mores." or was it the clip of Bush joking about looking for wmds while the crowed laughed cheerfully. All this while our troops were being killed/maimed in Iraq ? Are those a couple of the tricks you are talking about or are there others that upset you ?
Ls, Your opinion is appreciated on this topic also.See, his legitmate criticisms of Bush would come off so much better if he didn't bookend any facts he does use with lies and distortions. When people see someone making up all sorts of nonsense about someone they naturally think, "Gee whiz, if this guy has to make up a bunch of lies to make his target look bad, maybe his target isn't so bad after all. I mean, if he really was that bad, why not just tell the truth and that would be all that is neccessary?" Don't you get that Moore makes George Bush look good?

[JustRalph]

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?id=197

Michael Moore and his ilk have taken over the Dem party.

see his open letter on his website

Wednesday, August 9th, 2006
It's All About Who You Sleep With ... a Cautionary Note from Michael Moore

Friends,

Let the resounding defeat of Senator Joe Lieberman send a cold shiver down the spine of every Democrat who supported the invasion of Iraq and who continues to support, in any way, this senseless, immoral, unwinnable war. Make no mistake about it: We, the majority of Americans, want this war ended -- and we will actively work to defeat each and every one of you who does not support an immediate end to this war.

Nearly every Democrat set to run for president in 2008 is responsible for this war. They voted for it or they supported it. That single, stupid decision has cost us 2,592 American lives and tens of thousands of Iraqi lives. Lieberman and Company made a colossal mistake -- and we are going to make sure they pay for that mistake. Payback time started last night.

I realize that there are those like Kerry and Edwards who have now changed their position and are strongly anti-war. Perhaps that switch will be enough for some to support them. For others, like me -- while I'm glad they've seen the light -- their massive error in judgment is, sadly, proof that they are not fit for the job. They sided with Bush, and for that, they may never enter the promised land.

To Hillary, our first best hope for a woman to become president, I cannot for the life of me figure out why you continue to support Bush and his war. I'm sure someone has advised you that a woman can't be elected unless she proves she can kick ass just as crazy as any man. I'm here to tell you that you will never make it through the Democratic primaries unless you start now by strongly opposing the war. It is your only hope. You and Joe have been Bush's biggest Democratic supporters of the war. Last night's voter revolt took place just a few miles from your home in Chappaqua. Did you hear the noise? Can you read the writing on the wall?

To every Democratic Senator and Congressman who continues to back Bush's War, allow me to inform you that your days in elective office are now numbered. Myself and tens of millions of citizens are going to work hard to actively remove you from any position of power.

If you don't believe us, give Joe a call.

Yours,
Michael Moore
mmflint@aol.com
www.michaelmoore.com

[46zilzal]

he is not allowed an opinion?

Oh yeah, that's because he is the BAD guy.......

Whether one agrees with him or not, he is no different from anyone who recognizes that the KING is wearing no clothes.

As much as I disagree with the blonde conservative queen, she has a right to an opinion just as much as this guy.

[46zilzal]

Moore assuredly made Charlton "from my cold dead hands" Heston look silly in Bowling for Columbine...

[GameTheory]

Moore assuredly made Charlton "from my cold dead hands" Heston look silly in Bowling for Columbine...That's a good example. That quote is from a speech that DIDN'T EXIST -- a speech that Moore CREATED from pieces of various speeches to happen on the day & time he wanted it to happen. But it didn't happen. I can make anyone look silly with such tricks, but does it have anything to do with the truth?

[kenwoodallpromos]

I thought he was Canadian?

[46zilzal]

I thought he was Canadian?
from Flint. Mich

[46zilzal]

That's a good example. That quote is from a speech that DIDN'T EXIST -- a speech that Moore CREATED from pieces of various speeches to happen on the day & time he wanted it to happen. But it didn't happen. I can make anyone look silly with such tricks, but does it have anything to do with the truth?
in the movie, Heston delivers a message to a GUN crowd and uses that very line...

also saw it on a TV promo to join the NRA.....My dad was a member for many years and then quit. I asked him why and re said that too many "nut cases" were at the helm and he wanted no part of their monkeying with politics.

[46zilzal]

As NRA president he is perhaps best known, while raising an antique Sharps Rifle over his head at the 2000 NRA convention, for saying that presidential candidate Al Gore would take away his Second Amendment rights "from my cold, dead hands". (In announcing his resignation in 2003, he would again raise a rifle over his head, this time repeating only the famous five words of his 2000 speech.)

from Wikipedia web site

but then it DIDN'T really happen!!! This is all imaginary, made up stuff.

[GameTheory]

in the movie, Heston delivers a message to a GUN crowd and uses that very line...

also saw it on a TV promo to join the NRA.....My dad was a member for many years and then quit. I asked him why and re said that too many "nut cases" were at the helm and he wanted no part of their monkeying with politics.I know he said the line, but not from the speech Moore showed him saying it in. That's just what I'm talking about.

-- Moore's agenda is to show the NRA as insensitive nut job crazies.

-- Right after Columbine, the NRA had a meeting nearby. Moore criticizes them for this insensitivity (not cancelling the meeting), ignoring the facts that they A) were required by law to hold this meeting, B) cancelled pretty much everything except the minimum stuff to qualify as having held the meeting according to the law. Moore shows Heston making the "cold dead hands" speech at this event when in fact it was from an event many months prior.

-- The effect: the NRA looks like insensitive nut job crazies.

The facts: the NRA was acting sensitively and appropriately, but that didn't fit with Moore's agenda to make them look THE OPPOSITE THAT THEY WERE ACTING IN REALITY. So he CREATED an event out of thin air that never happened.

Again, if he is willing to do that -- SHOW THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT REALLY HAPPENED to make his propagandistic point, what else do you need to know?

[46zilzal]

I
The facts: the NRA was acting sensitively and appropriately, but that didn't fit with Moore's agenda to make them look THE OPPOSITE THAT THEY WERE ACTING IN REALITY. So he CREATED an event out of thin air that never happened.


oh my reality has a way of shifiting then doesn't it?

My father, a life long gun collector, along with several of his friends just MADE UP their revulsion too.......

amazing

[GameTheory]

from Wikipedia web siteIf you believe everything you read on Wikipedia, you're really in trouble. Despite the fact that Wikipedia is supposed to let anyone edit articles, it is actually controlled by a fairly small group of people. Find something you're an expert at and look it up on Wikipedia. Finding some inaccuracies is not hard. Now attempt to correct them, even give your credentials that show your expertise. You'll see your facts disappear within an hour...

[GameTheory]

oh my reality has a way of shifiting then doesn't it?

My father, a life long gun collector, along with several of his friends just MADE UP their revulsion too.......

amazingDodge. Either the event happened as portrayed, or it didn't. If it didn't, Moore is a liar.

That's the thing -- he can still make a critical film of the gun culture and tell the truth at the same time. Tell the truth and let people make up their own minds, like your friends.

[46zilzal]

Heston said it..It is on tape and recorded....He had this crazy idea that "they" were going to take his toy away.

[GameTheory]

Heston said it..It is on tape and recorded....I know it is, but not from that event. Also documented.

[46zilzal]

because one said it in Denver, Seattle or Atlanta on August 3rd 2000 or September 29th 1991 doesn't somehow change the content.

[GameTheory]

because one said it in Denver, Seattle or Atlanta on August 3rd 2000 or September 29th 1991 doesn't somehow change the content.Ok, so you admit it was a lie, but I guess lies don't bother you. I call that a lack of integrity. And next time you accuse Bush or someone you don't agree with of lying, we will just have to remember that lies are ok with you...

[46zilzal]

Heston said it. A lie? strange. I have the tape of that movie.....want a copy so you can hear it too???

The rutabaga makes up some real whoppers about things like Iraq......a TRUE turd of the best quality

[GameTheory]

Heston said it. A lie? strange. I have the tape of that movie.....want a copy so you can hear it too???Stop playing dumb. The lie is WHEN AND WHERE Moore shows him saying it -- that's deception, a lie.

If the content by itself is so damning, why didn't Moore just tell the truth about it? Why did he have to pretend that Heston was making this speech at this particular event on this particular day?

[GameTheory]

The rutabaga makes up some real whoppers about things like Iraq......Good thing lies don't bother you...

[46zilzal]

Stop playing dumb. The lie is WHEN AND WHERE Moore shows him saying it -- that's deception, a lie.

bull crap. No matter WHEN or WHERE good old Ben Hur would never change his position. The intent I got from the movie was in the NRA's position on guns.

[GameTheory]

bull crap. No matter WHEN or WHERE good old Ben Hur would never change his position. The intent I got from the movie was in the NRA's position on guns.I'm not talking about his position, and you know it.

IF THE POSITION IS ALL THAT IS IMPORTANT THEN WHY NOT SHOW IT AS IT REALLY HAPPENED???? Why try to manipulate the viewer?

[JustRalph]

Game, this is typical of 46 and his bullshit. he actually believes what Moore says...........amazing............good call on the deceit peddled by Moore.

[46zilzal]

Game, this is typical of 46 and his bullshit. he actually believes what Moore says...........amazing............good call on the deceit peddled by Moore.
In this case I was believing what old Ben Hur said

[GameTheory]

In this case I was believing what old Ben Hur saidYou can be critical of Heston and Moore at the same time, you know. It is easy: "Moore lied, but I still disagree with Heston." See?

No need to dance around and give yourself an ulcer by telling yourself lies too...

[46zilzal]

most ulcers are caused by H. pylori

http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/hpylori/

[GameTheory]

most ulcers are caused by H. pylori

http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/hpylori/Yes, I know. I should have should {insert psychological condition caused by lying to oneself when one doesn't want to accept the truth}, but I didn't know the term.

[ljb]

See, his legitmate criticisms of Bush would come off so much better if he didn't bookend any facts he does use with lies and distortions. When people see someone making up all sorts of nonsense about someone they naturally think, "Gee whiz, if this guy has to make up a bunch of lies to make his target look bad, maybe his target isn't so bad after all. I mean, if he really was that bad, why not just tell the truth and that would be all that is neccessary?" Don't you get that Moore makes George Bush look good?
I have never seen a movie, documentary, tv show or read a book that I agreed with the whole package. There are nuances in all that I don't agree with. I also have not seen any "political" expression that was not full of lies and distortions. I feel about Ann Coulter the way you guys feel about Moore. I have noted two clips from Moores films which were actual clips of Bush. Can either of you provide me with something similiar from Coulter ?

[PlanB]

Michael Moore is a brilliant filmmaker/director/dramatist. Editing to create
an effect, ANY effect, has always been an acceptable ploy. I got my
degree in acctg/finance but had more than a few film courses at NYU.
(Yeah, home to Oliver Stone, I can hear keyboards warming up) In film,
ploys, even easy to spot ploys, can be effective, and I see no lies/coverups
in MM's work. On the contrary, he kept the gloves on with Heston, so it
seemed to me. Since he considers the Bush administration the most corrupt
and venal since Caligula I'd say MM understated his film making.

[ljb]

I tried to edit last note but was too late.
After posting my note I read your discussion with 46. It appears to me you are an NRA supporter. If this is true I understand your dislike of Moore. He did do a number on guns in his Columbine movie.
Just saw yesterday a report about the increase in killing and violence relating to guns. If I can find the link I will provide it if you want to read the story.

[GameTheory]

I am not an NRA supporter and I'm not an NRA detractor. But I don't support most gun control. All the evidence I've seen indicates that guns save lives and reduce crime. I used to be a gun control guy, but the more research I did into the real facts, I realized I'd been suckered and changed my mind.

Why does the assumption exist that if you are critical of one side -- even just one individual on that side -- that you automatically buy everything the other side is selling hook, line, and sinker? I just got done saying you can be critical of Moore and Heston at the same time. You can hate the NRA and still realize that Moore wasn't fair. The fact that he is manipulative about it instead of just stating the facts doesn't support his message, but undercuts it. That's why I said that the people who AGREE with Moore's MESSAGE should be the most critical of him, but it makes those of you who agree with that message all look complicit in his lies when you don't condemn them.

And I don't like Ann Coulter. I think she's a wacko too, and I've said so on this board before.

[GameTheory]

Michael Moore is a brilliant filmmaker/director/dramatist. Editing to create
an effect, ANY effect, has always been an acceptable ploy. Since when? He's a hack.

In film school they used to show us stuff like his to show what NOT to do. And these were quite liberal professors I can assure you, but they cared about filmmaking and the integrity of the process...

[GameTheory]

I have never seen a movie, documentary, tv show or read a book that I agreed with the whole package. There are nuances in all that I don't agree with. I also have not seen any "political" expression that was not full of lies and distortions. I feel about Ann Coulter the way you guys feel about Moore. I have noted two clips from Moores films which were actual clips of Bush. Can either of you provide me with something similiar from Coulter ?Like I said, I can accept some bias no problem. No single work is going to show the whole story of anything. Moore says his films are op-ed pieces. That's fine. What isn't fine is making up stuff that didn't happen, presenting "facts" he knows aren't true, and so on. Lying is his whole M.O.

[ljb]

Glad to here you don't like Coulter. My thoughts on Moore are best described in Planb's note above. While Moore's methods may be questionable, he is making points that need to be made. And many are chastising him for making these points , much like a few on this board are harrassed for making similiar points. Only difference I can see is Moore is a millionaire and I'm just a middleclass dude trying to survive. ;)

[46zilzal]

it's always SHOOT the messenger, not THINK about what they are trying to say....

[JustRalph]

Michael Moore is a brilliant filmmaker/director/dramatist. Editing to create
an effect, ANY effect, has always been an acceptable ploy. I got my
degree in acctg/finance but had more than a few film courses at NYU.
(Yeah, home to Oliver Stone, I can hear keyboards warming up) In film,
ploys, even easy to spot ploys, can be effective, and I see no lies/coverups
in MM's work. On the contrary, he kept the gloves on with Heston, so it
seemed to me. Since he considers the Bush administration the most corrupt
and venal since Caligula I'd say MM understated his film making.


You are a real beauty......... you see no lies or cover ups in Moore's work? Wow! are you diluted...........

[GameTheory]

it's always SHOOT the messenger, not THINK about what they are trying to say....It is because I'm thinking about what they are trying to say that I want to shoot them. You guys think that if you agree, then the ends justify the means. Of course, when you don't agree with the ends, you're all over them for the means. Hypocrites.

[PaceAdvantage]

And many are chastising him for making these points , much like a few on this board are harrassed for making similiar points.

FEW? Harrassed!!!????

This must be a Michael Moore method in action. Thanks for the laugh LJB. :lol:

(Few and harrassed....is he for real?)

[PlanB]

Hypocrites? lol, I'm gonna try very hard to educate you MR: ANGER is best
expressed directly, then forgotten, rather than dispensed, drip by drip, from
some endless whining well. LIBS have graciously conceded YOUR KIND its
day and Look what YOUR KIND has done with such generosity: SQUANDERED.
It's a word Bushies (Bushettes?) should learn because this country Future
deficits is its real legacy, imo, of course.

[GameTheory]

Hypocrites? lol, I'm gonna try very hard to educate you MR: ANGER is best
expressed directly, then forgotten, rather than dispensed, drip by drip, from
some endless whining well. LIBS have graciously conceded YOUR KIND its
day and Look what YOUR KIND has done with such generosity: SQUANDERED.
It's a word Bushies (Bushettes?) should learn because this country Future
deficits is its real legacy, imo, of course.You might learn to compose a comprehensible paragraph before attempting to educate anyone...

[PlanB]

You just had a startled moment. Vote DEM next time.

[PaceAdvantage]

Squandered what? The economy since 9/11 has done nothing but grow and prosper.

I caught this elsewhere in cyberspace....
-- 1.7 million new jobs have been created over the past year;
-- Employment has increased in 48 of the 50 states;

-- Manufacturing output is at an all-time high and production employment in manufacturing has increased by 117,000 over the past year -- the largest annual increase in over 8 years;

-- The economy has grown at 3.5% over the past year, while productivity has grown at 2.4%;

-- Real per capita disposable income has risen 9.2% since 2001;

-- Real compensation has risen 1.7%.

Labor for its part laments the state of the US economy -- again -- and points in its new study to how great things are in Europe. This is almost comical, considering the per capita US Gross Domestic Product (also known as the standard of living) is almost 50% higher than Europe's. The 3.5% GDP growth noted above is 35% faster than the EU's. The current 4.6% unemployment rate is half Europe's rate. US workers unemployed for over a year account for just 12% of the total, while in Europe, some 43% of all unemployed have been so for over a year. Finally, the percent of people starting new businesses is five times higher in the US than in France. Ask yourself this question: If you open the borders, which way will people flow -- toward Europe or toward the good ol' US of A? We think we know the answer.

So today, as you read all the wistful comparisons with Europe and read all the grim news about the US economy, just remember that this economy has come up off the economic mat from September 11 with a vengeance. We remain the largest economy in the world and the economic envy of the world.

[PlanB]

umm I do agree that the USA's economy is THE ONLY real player. It amazes
me, negative stats & all. I mean, I see very bad omens on the horizon, but
as my father keeps on reminding me, bad numbers despair me. Maybe its that
mean algebra teacher I had way back. There's some bleak possibilities & they
scare me, but I do concede that world events can swing things overnight.
For me, its invest in Defense Funds or Commodities/ all others keep Nothing
Long, but thats another thought.

[46zilzal]

Squandered what? The economy since 9/11 has done nothing but grow and prosper.

I caught this elsewhere in cyberspace....

I think he might have been alluding to the support that was evident worldwide after 9/11/01 that was squandered.

War is not a solution for terrorism ...By Howard Zinn

THERE IS SOMETHING important to be learned from the recent experience of the United States and Israel in the Middle East: that massive military attacks, inevitably indiscriminate, are not only morally reprehensible, but useless in achieving the stated aims of those who carry them out.

The United States, in three years of war, which began with shock-and-awe bombardment and goes on with day-to-day violence and chaos, has been an utter failure in its claimed objective of bringing democracy and stability to Iraq. The Israeli invasion and bombing of Lebanon has not brought security to Israel; indeed it has increased the number of its enemies, whether in Hezbollah or Hamas or among Arabs who belong to neither of those groups.

I remember John Hersey's novel, "The War Lover," in which a macho American pilot, who loves to drop bombs on people and also to boast about his sexual conquests, turns out to be impotent. President Bush, strutting in his flight jacket on an aircraft carrier and announcing victory in Iraq, has turned out to be much like the Hersey character, his words equally boastful, his military machine impotent.

[46zilzal]

squandered this way:
http://nationmultimedia.com/2006/09/12/opinion/opinion_30013375.php

[PlanB]

BRAVO 46. Its another example from good will to money, yet your link
is more powerful because nothing imo is more powerful than a country
(or lover) roused. Its pure primitive emotion & that defies even Einstein.

[JustRalph]

Graciously conceded............it's called losing elections.........and you were everything but gracious. You went nuts...........congrats on wholesale delusion.

[ljb]

FEW? Harrassed!!!????

This must be a Michael Moore method in action. Thanks for the laugh LJB. :lol:

(Few and harrassed....is he for real?)
PA,
I would think being called the 4 horsemen or 4 cub reporters indicates few. And if you want I can dig up numerous posts where we have been called various names and so on. Check out boxcars note to me in this thread (i think) for an example.
Just read your note regarding the economy. Could you provide a link ? This data seems to contradict with most of what I have seen. Most of what I have seen is; while corporate profits are up considerbly, working people have seen their incomes actually fall when adjusted for inflation. ?

[PaceAdvantage]

Both you guys do your share of name calling -- boxhead? Saw that one today from Hcap. Nobody is an angel on off-topic. Don't make it like you guys have a monopoly on victimization here....

The only link I have is to what I reproduced here. It was from someone posting on blog....are the stats inaccurate?

[Lefty]

because one said it in Denver, Seattle or Atlanta on August 3rd 2000 or September 29th 1991 doesn't somehow change the content.
If it makes no diff then why did MM feel the need to lie and change the event where he said it?

[Lefty]

I have never seen a movie, documentary, tv show or read a book that I agreed with the whole package. There are nuances in all that I don't agree with. I also have not seen any "political" expression that was not full of lies and distortions. I feel about Ann Coulter the way you guys feel about Moore. I have noted two clips from Moores films which were actual clips of Bush. Can either of you provide me with something similiar from Coulter ?
On 2 occasions, when I was gone, having a gun saved my wife's bacon
Having a GUN HAS SAVED MANY PEOPLE BUT THE GUN CONTROL CROWD DOESN'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT...

[Lefty]

You libs go on and on about how MM has a right to change events and alter the truth for effect any effect, but aren't you guys the same one complaining about the film the PATH TO 9-11?

[boxcar]

PA,I would think being called the 4 horsemen or 4 cub reporters indicates few. And if you want I can dig up numerous posts where we have been called various names and so on. Check out boxcars note to me in this thread (i think) for an example.

That's what you get for trying to think. Right forum but wrong thread.

And what did I say that so offended you? A "mature" guy like you should just chalk it all up to having a collision with an Inconvenient Truth.

Boxcar

[Tom]

Ljb, you called yourself a cub reporter. Are you harrassing yourself now?
You know, the internet is really a blessing for you, isn't it?
If you had to carry on conversations in a bar, you would probably get beat up a lot!:lol:

Funny how you libs whine about Bush ignoring the constitution, yet, you are always right there trying to ingore the right to bear arms. tsk tsk

[sq764]

Glad to here you don't like Coulter. My thoughts on Moore are best described in Planb's note above. While Moore's methods may be questionable, he is making points that need to be made. And many are chastising him for making these points , much like a few on this board are harrassed for making similiar points. Only difference I can see is Moore is a millionaire and I'm just a middleclass dude trying to survive. ;)
Ironic that Moore brings up 'points' about healthcare, but his fat ass is going to be depending on the US healthcare system more than most when he develops diabetes, high blood pressure and most likely a stroke and/or heart attack..

But why would we mix reality with Moore.. LOL

[46zilzal]

MM has the money for heatlh care, just not the will to use it's teachings it would appear.

[rastajenk]

There's an expose documentary out there that I'd like to see Moore produce. I'd like to see him take on academia, and find out why college costs have risen so disproportionately to everything else in our world. Why does something that cost $4000 per year a few years ago now cost $15,000 or more? I'd like him to examine administrative costs and professors' salaries, and compare them to the measly rates paid to adjunct teachers that carry the brunt of the load. I'd like to see him go behind the scenes of the tenure process, and how (left-leaning) politics drives everything.

There'd be some real juicy stuff out there for a Moore-like documentary, but it might gore the wrong ox. Think he has the integrity to take on something like that?

[ljb]

Both you guys do your share of name calling -- boxhead? Saw that one today from Hcap. Nobody is an angel on off-topic. Don't make it like you guys have a monopoly on victimization here....

The only link I have is to what I reproduced here. It was from someone posting on blog....are the stats inaccurate?
Check it out PA, I have posted notes, quotes, and links. Most everytime I am personally attacked. Rarely if ever have I posted a snark against an opponet until provoked to do so. As for the stats, I questioned them because most of the data I have come across lately did not seem to agree with them. I had what I thought was a reasonable discussion/debate with gametheroy going on in a thread just yesterday and then the rightys jumped in with their normal methodology.
Check out the rightys comments in this thread.

[Lefty]

lbj, you're a riot. You feel harassed when someone (me, I started it)calls you a cub reporter, but can't figure out why a film about assinating a sitting pres should be called threatening.

[Tom]

Personal attacks?
Ljb, If I ever attacked you, you would think you were surrounded. :D

[sq764]

There's an expose documentary out there that I'd like to see Moore produce. I'd like to see him take on academia, and find out why college costs have risen so disproportionately to everything else in our world. Why does something that cost $4000 per year a few years ago now cost $15,000 or more? I'd like him to examine administrative costs and professors' salaries, and compare them to the measly rates paid to adjunct teachers that carry the brunt of the load. I'd like to see him go behind the scenes of the tenure process, and how (left-leaning) politics drives everything.

There'd be some real juicy stuff out there for a Moore-like documentary, but it might gore the wrong ox. Think he has the integrity to take on something like that?
Because if he were to go up against scholars and professors, they would rip him to shreds.. It would be a comedy.

[sq764]

Check it out PA, I have posted notes, quotes, and links. Most everytime I am personally attacked. Rarely if ever have I posted a snark against an opponet until provoked to do so. As for the stats, I questioned them because most of the data I have come across lately did not seem to agree with them. I had what I thought was a reasonable discussion/debate with gametheroy going on in a thread just yesterday and then the rightys jumped in with their normal methodology.
Check out the rightys comments in this thread.
You know what PA, I am damn tired of personal attacks too.. And I can assure you that I NEVER snark against anyone.

LJB, we got to stick together! Power to the people!

[PaceAdvantage]

I'm very lax about my enforcement in OFF TOPIC - GENERAL, as you all may have discovered by now.....

[ljb]

Getting back to basics here. This area of the thread started when I said "a few here speak out and are harrassed" ,Not an exact quote but same message.
PA questioned my statement. I responded to PA's question. Siting examples and suggesting he look back in thread. I expect the attacks. As I have said more then once. It is a Rovian method of avoiding the real issue. Carry on boys, carry on.

[ljb]

There's an expose documentary out there that I'd like to see Moore produce. I'd like to see him take on academia, and find out why college costs have risen so disproportionately to everything else in our world. Why does something that cost $4000 per year a few years ago now cost $15,000 or more? I'd like him to examine administrative costs and professors' salaries, and compare them to the measly rates paid to adjunct teachers that carry the brunt of the load. I'd like to see him go behind the scenes of the tenure process, and how (left-leaning) politics drives everything.

There'd be some real juicy stuff out there for a Moore-like documentary, but it might gore the wrong ox. Think he has the integrity to take on something like that?

Personally I thought we were supposed to pay the additional costs of college with our tax break money. But here is a link that talks about the increase in college costs if you wish to persue this further.
http://www.luminafoundation.org/issues/collegecost/CollisionCourse.pdf#search=%22college%20costs%20fu ture%22

[Lefty]

Getting back to basics here. This area of the thread started when I said "a few here speak out and are harrassed" ,Not an exact quote but same message.
PA questioned my statement. I responded to PA's question. Siting examples and suggesting he look back in thread. I expect the attacks. As I have said more then once. It is a Rovian method of avoiding the real issue. Carry on boys, carry on.
What a whiney fella you've become. You're practically incapable of having a debate without launching the personal attack and in the last couple threads you started it was impossible to get an opinion out of you, and eventually we got your opinion supporting both sides of the debate. You pulled a Kerry on minimum wage increases: You didn't care, you were for em before you were against em and on and in adinfinitum.
You think you were harrassed by the term cub reporter yet you don't think a film about killing a sitting pres is a threat. lbj, you make less sense than most libs and you would be in a class by yourself except 46zil is on this board too.
respectfully,
your pal,
Lefty

[Lefty]

SQ, MM would never do an expose' on college professors cause most hold the same views as he.

[ljb]

What a whiney fella you've become. You're practically incapable of having a debate without launching the personal attack and in the last couple threads you started it was impossible to get an opinion out of you, and eventually we got your opinion supporting both sides of the debate. You pulled a Kerry on minimum wage increases: You didn't care, you were for em before you were against em and on and in adinfinitum.
You think you were harrassed by the term cub reporter yet you don't think a film about killing a sitting pres is a threat. lbj, you make less sense than most libs and you would be in a class by yourself except 46zil is on this board too.
respectfully,
your pal,
Lefty

Lefty,
Do you post all this gibberish with a purpose ? Or are these just words that come out of your computer ? Most if not all of this post is imagininary thoughts, are you trying to say something ?

[ljb]

Personal attacks?
Ljb, If I ever attacked you, you would think you were surrounded. :D
Speaking of whiners, Here is another image for your viewing pleasure.
http://static.firedoglake.com/2006/09/cheneydraftdodge.jpg

[Lefty]

Lefty,
Do you post all this gibberish with a purpose ? Or are these just words that come out of your computer ? Most if not all of this post is imagininary thoughts, are you trying to say something ?
Yes, lbj, the purpoose is to show that people like you can dish it out but not take it and instead of trying to engage in a debate you call names, make fun, change the subject and obfuscate. Should be clear enough for anyone, my lad.
Here's a good starting off pont to have a discussion. What about my last post constitures imaginary thght?

[sq764]

SQ, MM would never do an expose' on college professors cause most hold the same views as he.
Only the liberal arts colleges

[Tom]

Getting back to basics here. This area of the thread started when I said "a few here speak out and are harrassed" ,Not an exact quote but same message.
PA questioned my statement. I responded to PA's question. Siting examples and suggesting he look back in thread. I expect the attacks. As I have said more then once. It is a Rovian method of avoiding the real issue. Carry on boys, carry on.

If you can't handle it, shut up.
Otherwise, be preparead to get "feedback,"
This is for adults here, the kids table has a seat open in SLECTIONS.
Oh, wait,. your last two selections finished, what, second?:lol:

[ljb]

If you can't handle it, shut up.
Otherwise, be preparead to get "feedback,"
This is for adults here, the kids table has a seat open in SLECTIONS.
Oh, wait,. your last two selections finished, what, second?:lol:
Hey there little lefty,
wassup ?
You have been lax in your moveon.com updates. If this continues I may have to remove your JR. Cub Reporter title. Haven't seen or heard much "adult" conversation from you lately are you on the wagon or did the fat guy in the bar die ? :lol: