Interesting article on the state of the various 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists

[PaceAdvantage]

I found this Washington Post article to be interesting as well as a little surprising for a "mainstream" daily....

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/14723997/

"There was massive complicity in this attack by U.S. government operatives."

If that feels like a skip off the cliff of established reality, more Americans are in free fall than you might guess. There are few more startling measures of American distrust of leaders than the widespread belief that the Bush administration had a hand in the attacks of Sept. 11 in order to spark an invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq.

A recent Scripps Howard/Ohio University (http://newspolls.org/story.php?story_id=55) poll of 1,010 Americans found that 36 percent suspect the U.S. government promoted the attacks or intentionally sat on its hands. Sixteen percent believe explosives brought down the towers. Twelve percent believe a cruise missile hit the Pentagon.

Distrust near Ground Zero
Distrust percolates more strongly near Ground Zero. A Zogby International poll of New York City residents two years ago found 49.3 percent believed the government "consciously failed to act."

[DJofSD]

"consciously failed to act."

Pearl Harbor?

[hcap]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3080261/

Do you believe any 9/11 conspiracy theories that indicate the U.S. government was involved?
* 23275 responses

Yes, I believe there's evidence.
57%
No, that's ridiculous.
31%
I'm not sure.
11%

[OTM Al]

And some wondered why I got so worked up debunking this garbage a couple months ago. Better watch out or this stuff will have a greater approval rating than the president, and that is a terrifying thought indeed.

[sq764]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3080261/

Do you believe any 9/11 conspiracy theories that indicate the U.S. government was involved?
* 23275 responses

Yes, I believe there's evidence.
57%
No, that's ridiculous.
31%
I'm not sure.
11%
Hcap, all joking aside, you do honestly believe the government was behind 9/11?

DO you truly believe this?

[JustRalph]

he believes it.......... along with a bunch of other left wing nuts.........

[Tom]

Just let me say this, and then I'm outta this one.

If you honestly believe the governemtn of the USA had a part in the 9-11 attacks, and you are not at this moment activley planning on a new revolution, to overthrow the government, violently, you are a coward and not worth talking too.

The ONLY acceptable response to this would be to take out the government.

[kenwoodallpromos]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3080261/

Do you believe any 9/11 conspiracy theories that indicate the U.S. government was involved?
* 23275 responses

Yes, I believe there's evidence.
57%
No, that's ridiculous.
31%
I'm not sure.
11%
____________________
Isn't it interesting that 57% believe in the theories, and about 60% do not listen to much news?
"http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?PageID=834"

[kenwoodallpromos]

PROFILE OF VIEWERS OF TV CHANNELS WATCHED MOST OFTEN FOR NEWS ABOUT POLITICS OR PUBLIC AFFAIRS

"When you want news or information related to politics or public affairs, which television channel do you turn to most often?"

Base: All adults

Total
CNN
FOX
ABC
NBC
CBS

Political Philosophy:

Conservative
29
12
61
22
28
23

Moderate
50
61
35
63
46
63

Liberal
20
27
4
14
26
14
__________________
As you can see, Neocons watch ABC much more, Moderates like me watch the most news, and libs are the most un-informed!!LOL!!

[hcap]

sq764
Hcap, all joking aside, you do honestly believe the government was behind 9/11?

DO you truly believe this?I am agnostic. If any one in the government had anything to do with it, I would think it would be "letting it happen" not actively planning it.

But at this point I can't buy it. Interesting stuff tho.

[sq764]

sq764
I am agnostic. If any one in the government had anything to do with it, I would think it would be "letting it happen" not actively planning it.

But at this point I can't buy it. Interesting stuff tho.
I can agree 100% that this government is responsible for not doing all it could to prevent something like this from happening. This was being planned for years before it happened, years that encompassed both Dems and Republicans and left a lot of people holding the bag..

But I am careful not to confuse poor planning with an active role in the attacks.

[Bala]

New book by actual engineers debunking the conspiracy theories:

http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/conspiracy_cranks_opedcolumnists_james_b__meigs.ht m



________________________________
outsource congress.

[betchatoo]

New book by actual engineers debunking the conspiracy theories:

http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/conspiracy_cranks_opedcolumnists_james_b__meigs.ht m



________________________________
outsource congress.

First, let me say I don't believe in the conspiracy theory. That being said, the problem is that if you look hard enough you can find a group of engineers (or scientists) that will agree with almost any theory (crackpot or not) that you want to prove.

[Light]

I'm still trying to find out how 2 planes knocked down 3 buildings?

[OTM Al]

2 planes knocked down 2 buildings. The collapse of those buildings resulted in structural damage and fire in the third. It then collapsed. Yes, I know from the shots they had it looked okay, but the collapse of the tore out a big chunk of 7 near the base. That, along with the fires that further weakened the structure, led to its collapse.

[JustRalph]

you think an earthquake couldn't weaken the bottom of the 3rd building?

Well, some people 6 blocks away said that when the two trade centers came down, it was much like an earthquake. Rudy G. says he watched a desk shake across the room in a building he was in 3 blocks away, when trade center 1 came down. So I bet there was some serious rocking and rolling going on at the base of building number 3.

[Secretariat]

I'm on the Hcap side. I don't know. Saying that however, the burden of proof is on the accusers side on this one. I do think that hypothesis that lead to questions shoudl be posted and debunked as OTM has stated. However, there are oddities about certain things that lead to many people thinking such a thing. "Consciously failed to act" can mean a lot of things.

For example, I was watching Leno the other night when the actor James Woods described a fear he had pre-911 of two Arab men on the plane he was on. He stated he went to the flight attendant and told her. She stated he had the same fear. He was later interviewed by the FBI and the two men were never investigated. The two men turned out to be two of the men reproted on the hijacked planes later on 911.

The FBI field offices attempted to tell higher ups of issues which were not acted upon. This has ben documented in the 911 report.

The 911 Commission Report reports that one of the Al Queda terrorists interviewed by the FBI revealed that three Saudi Princes were aware of the attack before it happened and tha Head of the Pakistani Air Force (these are supposed allies of ours).

Various physicists have questioned the manner of the fall of WTC 7, and there have been differing accounts of the fire issue, from gasoline stored on the top floor of WTC 7 in barrels which Giuliani is alleged to have reported to Firemen and policemen vocally on video urging people to leave as there were bombs in the building.

The Bush admisntration initially did not want a 911 Commission, and we know from the current health issues surrounding Ground Zero that the government was less than fully honest about safet conditions in NYC after the attack as their own EPA Inspector General reported in 2003. aso much of the 911 Commission has been redacted due to the claim of national security.

When information is withheld from the public, or distorted, or redacted, from a government shrouded in secrecy then it raises questions and gives birth to these kind of doubts.

That said, I reiterate, in our country, the burden of proof is on the accusers, not the defendants.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Ok, here's the answer:
on those planes was large amouts of Anthrax that Hussein made from the vials we gave him in the 1980's.

[linrom1]

Just let me say this, and then I'm outta this one.

If you honestly believe the governemtn of the USA had a part in the 9-11 attacks, and you are not at this moment activley planning on a new revolution, to overthrow the government, violently, you are a coward and not worth talking too.

The ONLY acceptable response to this would be to take out the government.

"There is a virulent form of unpatriotism festering in America today. Like an algae bloom that deprives life of oxygen, it starves democracy of the air of reason. It now thrives on what we call the far Left, but like a dead zone off the coast, it moves with the tides.I am referring to the seditious dementia of conspiracy theories, the death of faith not in some mere administration or Congress but in America itself."

[Tom]

OK, linrom, I'm back after that post.
I am easily able to seperate congress/government from America.

I would just as easily kill the former to save the later.
Governments that do not serve the people not only should be toppled, they MUST be toppled.

[NY BRED]

if there is any conspiracy it is the failure of this government to find bin laden

and successfully kill the #2 flavor of the month at least 4 times since 9-11

with our ability to see pebbles on the moon, failure to find this scum bag in
pakistan, afghanistan or anywhere in this planet via satellites,spys, rewards
etc.. is inconceivable .

[Secretariat]

The issue I find disturbing as well is the Anthrax attack that occurred after 911 on Capitol Hill which has never been solved. Are those people still around? Where did the anthrax come from, who sent it, if they have not been caught why did it stop? Why were certain politicians targeted and not others?

[rrpic6]

So many odd and unexplainable actions and CSI-type evidence gathering continues to fuel these conspiracies. To ignore so many strange findings could only happen in a kindergarten class. It started with me on the 1st day, 9-11, when the news came out that Dick Cheney was being moved about the country in various undisclosed locations. My other pet peeves...how did the pilot make an impossible turn and descent, then a perfect crash landing directly into the pentagon when he barely could do basic flight manuveurs, according to a Flight Instructor? Was the engine of Flight 93 really found in a lake 3 miles from the crash site in Shanksville? And the cell phone calls? My cell phone has never worked within 30 seconds of takeoff. I was scolded by a Flight Attendant recently for trying to use my phone during a trip, it was dead of course.

[kenwoodallpromos]

The issue I find disturbing as well is the Anthrax attack that occurred after 911 on Capitol Hill which has never been solved. Are those people still around? Where did the anthrax come from, who sent it, if they have not been caught why did it stop? Why were certain politicians targeted and not others?
____
"
By KAREN DEMASTERS
Published: August 18, 2002
A mailbox at *****Nassau and Bank Streets in Princeton near the entrance to Princeton University was removed by law enforcement officials last week after anthrax spores were found in it. The discovery was made during the inspection of all mailboxes that fed a postal processing center in Hamilton. Anthrax-tainted letters delivered to government offices in Washington last fall were processed at the Hamilton center, which remains closed. The state health department says there is no health risk to residents and that this was the only mailbox found with anthrax. Karen DeMasters".
___________
"http://markuswiener.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=images/88-historicalprobs.JPG&zenid=1f5df985a9e2cb5cae9af6112685e00e"
NOTE- this very liberal pro-Muslim, publisher of materials that challenge the US Govt at every turn is located on the same street where tha Anthrax mailbox was located.
I say chances are a racical Muslim sympathyzer is a good bet,

[PaceAdvantage]

The seismic activity from the collapse of the twin towers was recorded as far away as New Hampshire....

[JustRalph]

The issue I find disturbing as well is the Anthrax attack that occurred after 911 on Capitol Hill which has never been solved. Are those people still around? Where did the anthrax come from, who sent it, if they have not been caught why did it stop? Why were certain politicians targeted and not others?

you ever heard of the CIA? they kill people and they don't issue press releases

[JustRalph]

My other pet peeves...how did the pilot make an impossible turn and descent, then a perfect crash landing directly into the pentagon when he barely could do basic flight manuveurs, according to a Flight Instructor? Was the engine of Flight 93 really found in a lake 3 miles from the crash site in Shanksville? And the cell phone calls? My cell phone has never worked within 30 seconds of takeoff. I was scolded by a Flight Attendant recently for trying to use my phone during a trip, it was dead of course.

I suggest you do some reading. Everything in your post above has been proven as bullshit.

[OTM Al]

rrpic6 has just given us a prime example of the "evidence" that conspiracy theorists (CT) cite. "My cell phone has never worked within 30 seconds of takeoff." Therefore the CT says, no one's could work in flight so the calls must be faked. This is exactly the type of logic used. In fact, cells will work in flight and actually older models had to send out stronger signals than today's models do.

[Secretariat]

you ever heard of the CIA? they kill people and they don't issue press releases

Wait a minute. Are you accusing the CIA of sending Antrax letters to US Congressmen?

[Tom]

Or maybe they found out who did, and they have since assumed room temperature.

[rrpic6]

I suggest you do some reading. Everything in your post above has been proven as bullshit.

So my cell phone not working within 30 seconds of takeoff is BS? Were you spying on me and caught me lying? Point me in the right direction to find out how that pilot that crashed into the pentagon made such an impossible landing with zero experience. My Mom might go out and beat Tiger Woods at the Masters even tho she has never swung a golf club before.

[rrpic6]

rrpic6 has just given us a prime example of the "evidence" that conspiracy theorists (CT) cite. "My cell phone has never worked within 30 seconds of takeoff." Therefore the CT says, no one's could work in flight so the calls must be faked. This is exactly the type of logic used. In fact, cells will work in flight and actually older models had to send out stronger signals than today's models do.

My "old" cell phone must be old. I bought it in 2001 and it still works....except when in flight.

[Secretariat]

OTM has posted this before on the cell phone issue. I didn't challenge it becasue frankly I don't know, but I've never been able to get my cell phone to work in a plane way up either. It appears though that many people were able to use their cell phone on that day from the planes. The cell phones worked extremely well that day, but unfortunately for so many not much else did.

[Tom]

So you guys are calling all these people liars?
All those on the ground who talked to or go messages from thier loved ones before they died are liars?

[46zilzal]

I have spoken to people ON THE PHONE from an aircraft. I am sure others have as well. Phone conversations were recorded between people. Loved ones spoke to them. That is not mass hysteria.

[OTM Al]

Many of the calls were also placed not on personal cells, but on airphones (remember those?). You can't tell me that those don't work on planes.....I once again refer anyone who still wants to believe these CTs to the following web site, which debunks the film "Loose Change" step by step

http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html

It covers the majority of these idiotic claims

[Marshall Bennett]

Just let me say this, and then I'm outta this one.

If you honestly believe the governemtn of the USA had a part in the 9-11 attacks, and you are not at this moment activley planning on a new revolution, to overthrow the government, violently, you are a coward and not worth talking too.

The ONLY acceptable response to this would be to take out the government.
Even liberals with half a brain don't beleive this crap Tom !! They just throw it out there hoping enough of it sticks to mindless idiots they can hopefully bring over to their side . A vote is a vote !!

[Dave Schwartz]

I can agree 100% that this government is responsible for not doing all it could to prevent something like this from happening. This was being planned for years before it happened, years that encompassed both Dems and Republicans and left a lot of people holding the bag..

But I am careful not to confuse poor planning with an active role in the attacks.

Scott,

Well-said.

Thank you.


Regards,
Dave Schwartz