ITHA pulls plug on TVG

[Valuist]

In their infinite "wisdom", the Illinois Thoroughbred Horseman's Association has withdrawn their permission for TVG to show races (and accept wagers) from Arlington. Real smart. Here's a day they don't even have any competition from either New York or Kentucky. It'll be interesting to hear the rationale for this "brilliant" move. TVG may not be perfect but I don't see any way a track, or tracks benefit from NOT allowing them to carry your signal. And we wonder why racing has problems........

[blind squirrel]

In their infinite "wisdom", the Illinois Thoroughbred Horseman's Association has withdrawn their permission for TVG to show races (and accept wagers) from Arlington. Real smart. Here's a day they don't even have any competition from either New York or Kentucky. It'll be interesting to hear the rationale for this "brilliant" move. TVG may not be perfect but I don't see any way a track, or tracks benefit from NOT allowing them to carry your signal. And we wonder why racing has problems........


Todd was on 58 flat doing his best "JERRY LEWIS LABOR DAY TELETHON"
act begging people to call or email the ITHA.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Between that and Hawthorne having is loan called in, and the AR breakdowns, no wonder Illinois starts with ILL!LOL!!

[Valuist]

Between that and Hawthorne having is loan called in, and the AR breakdowns, no wonder Illinois starts with ILL!LOL!!

Actually its the Nat'l Jockey Club, who ran at Sportsmans (until the past two years when Hawthorne leased their track) that had RLD call their loan due. But you're right; Illinois doesn't need more problems.

[Valuist]

I'm at work so I have no idea how TVG is trying to spin this so if anyone has any info, please post.

I'm guessing there's a second side to this dispute. From what I've heard, TVG has stuck it to groups in the past, be it tracks, or other betting services. I could be wrong on this but I don't believe You Bet and AmericaTab were around in 1999 when TVG started up and signed as many exclusivity deals with as many tracks as possible. Since they were the only game in town, I'm sure they got the best of it every time. I don't like how the ITHA quickly pulled the plug, but I'd like to hear their side of the story.

[Valuist]

There is another side. I was suspicious that TVG was playing itself as the "victim".

I'll paraphrase from the DRF:

The issue concerns Hawthorne, not Arlington. (Pulling the plug) is an effort to force negotiations between TVG and YouBet. Last spring, Hawthorne signed an exclusive agreement with TVG. The agreement means TVG pays a track more for its signal but also allows TVG to charge YouBet a fee to carry the signal. YouBet carried the Nat'l Jockey Club meeting at Hawthorne last spring but in not planning on carrying the upcoming Hawthorne meet. The ITHA claims the loss of YouBet wagers will cost horsemen $500K in purse money. The ITHA tried to get a meeting with TVG, YouBet and Hawthorne, but TVG's chief counsel would not respond.

BTW, aren't these so-called "exclusive agreements' in violation of some anti-trust or restraint of trade laws? If they aren't, they should be. Figures TVG would be at the base of the problem.

[Dan Montilion]

You mean Illinois hijacked the the California Horse Racing Board.

[foregoforever]

So the ITHA was more than happy to accept the higher fees from TVG for giving them exclusivity, but they're annoyed that Youbet apparently isn't willing to pay extra to TVG as a result. Only in horseracing, where everyone wears a black hat ...

Doesn't NYRA have some sort of exclusivity deal with TVG as well? I remember that being in the news a year or so ago, but I never knew what either party was getting out of the deal. Is Youbet paying a fee to TVG in order to carry New York?

[cj]

...
BTW, aren't these so-called "exclusive agreements' in violation of some anti-trust or restraint of trade laws? If they aren't, they should be. Figures TVG would be at the base of the problem.

Why is TVG the problem? Sounds like the horsemen screwed up on this one. They even admit later on in the article that they can't do this much longer, so why do it for a few days?

[sjk]

Why is TVG the problem? Sounds like the horsemen screwed up on this one. They even admit later on in the article that they can't do this much longer, so why do it for a few days?

TVG is the problem because they are the ones who are making exclusive deals preventing those of us using other US based services from betting on certain tracks.

[cj]

Did someone force the Illinois horsemen to sign this exclusive deal? I don't think so, they happily took the money. I hardly call this restraint of trade. They could have signed with anyone they wanted. Plenty other tracks have refused the TVG deal.

[sjk]

The brief article that I read on the subject does not say that the horsemen signed the TVG deal. If they did it was not a very wise thing to do. If not their only leverage is to withhold the signal.

Tracks (such as FG) that have signed these deals and are not offered by Youbet or Xpressbet are missing a lot of handle as a result.

[cj]

This is from the article at DRF:

In March, Hawthorne signed a contract making it an exclusive TVG track.

[sjk]

I took that to mean the management of the track and not HBPA.

[Valuist]

Why is TVG the problem? Sounds like the horsemen screwed up on this one. They even admit later on in the article that they can't do this much longer, so why do it for a few days?

The track signed the deal, not the ITHA. Not that the ITHA isn't without fault here. From what I understand, there was no discussion or vote among the ITHA. Just those at the top decided to pull the signal. Neither TVG nor the ITHA are without fault here.

[cj]

I have yet to be told why TVG is at fault. That is their business model, exclusive deals. There are other options for tracks. Monmouth and the Meadowlands aren't on TVG, as well as any Magna tracks. Are the Magna tracks on TVG? It isn't like TVG is the only one doing this.

The problem to me seems to be Hawthorne and The ITHA didn't talk to each other. If the ITHA has control over the export of the signal, how was Hawthorne able to sell it without approval?

[Valuist]

The track can do what they want. I don't think they are going to go out of their way to screw over the horseman; whats good for them is good for the horsemen....USUALLY. But apparently not always.

The horsemen have contol over the exporting of the signal due to the Interstate Horse Racing Act of 1978.

Monmouth and the Magna tracks are on HRTV.

TVG is at fault for charging outlandish rates as a re-seller. Why is TVG even allowed to act as a reseller? These exclusivity deals are not good. The bettors, fans and horsemen don't benefit. Only TVG does. If the NTRA wasn't asleep at the wheel, they would've made a racing channel ten years ago and we wouldn't have to be subjected to this crap by TV Guide. Do you think the folks at TV Guide care about the good of racing? I guarantee you it never crosses their minds.

[blind squirrel]

The ILLINOIS horseman dispute is a harbinger.i don't think TVG
and the TOC have an agreement.i read an article in AUGUST that
CALIFORNIA racing could be "withheld" from TVG......let's get real,
the horsemen need TVG more than TVG need the horsemen.
no one is going to the tracks.if TVG only showed YAVAPI and
EVANGELINE every day,people would eventually bet on these
tracks,

[BIG49010]

I think it is good for the horseman, lets get it all out in the open. How much do the horseman get from betfair, they book 15 - 30k on each Arlington race, where does this show up in the horsemans account? The selling of the signal to Europe, etc..

The horseman in Illinois have been subject to some bad deals over the years, going back to the first OTB's and the deal struck between HPBA President Dave Feldman (RIP) and the tracks.

I have been saying for years, first it was inter-track wagering is going to save us, then Off-track is going to save us, then it was full-card simulcasting is going to save us, then slots are going to save us, whats after this prositution. Wake up, too much racing, quit saving this BS, and close up tracks.

Like other businesses, let them go under or sell out to someone that wants to be in the horse racing business!

[Valuist]

Yeah real good solution. :rolleyes: Let's shutter the tracks in the 3rd biggest metro area in the United States. What the hell does the advent of intertrack and OTBs have to do with the subject at hand?

[sjk]

When TVG got started it made sense that the way that racing would be transmitted into the home was through cable TV and in that context it made sense for a number of tracks to sign exclusive agreements.

Within a very few years widespread use of broadband internet made the cable TV route a comparatively inefficient way to reach the bettor. TVG has since lived off of the exclusive agreements signed years ago, some of which ought to be expiring soon and should not be renewed.

[BIG49010]

Similar to thread about Iowa, doesn't matter how much money you give these groups, you still have the same racing you had 20 years ago.

Name any new stables that have moved to Chicago. The top 5 trainers haven't changed in 20 years, other than a few deaths.

You can't even sign up for TVG in Illinois!

[Valuist]

Similar to thread about Iowa, doesn't matter how much money you give these groups, you still have the same racing you had 20 years ago.

Name any new stables that have moved to Chicago. The top 5 trainers haven't changed in 20 years, other than a few deaths.

You can't even sign up for TVG in Illinois!

Once again, another irrelevant post from you. You obviously harbor strong resentment toward the Chicago tracks. If you don't want to play them, then don't. In the meantime, quit wasting everyone else's time in threads about them.

[cj]

Once again, another irrelevant post from you. You obviously harbor strong resentment toward the Chicago tracks. If you don't want to play them, then don't. In the meantime, quit wasting everyone else's time in threads about them.

No more than your posts seem to harbor strong resentment towards TVG. If a legal agreement is in place, why should they give in? A deal is a deal. The fault on this one lies somewhere in Illinois.

[andicap]

seems to me there is room for only one horse racing channel to be profitable. If the govt allow it, they ought to merge and lobby cable operators for two channels. Better for everyone involved.

[Valuist]

No more than your posts seem to harbor strong resentment towards TVG. If a legal agreement is in place, why should they give in? A deal is a deal. The fault on this one lies somewhere in Illinois.

First off, my posts were all related to the original subject. I didn't go off on some irrelevant tangent as did the other poster.

Second, just because they aren't breaking the law, does it make things right? I do believe TVG is abusing these agreements and racing in general is not benefitting from it.

[BIG49010]

I have moved on to other tracks, I wish you the best and everyone else left in Illionis, but it is going to take something more than TVG or slots to fix the damage that has been done to the racing in Illinois by the current administrations in place.

[Valuist]

The administration is not without blame, no question. They could've taken a vote or notified other members.

This is the Blood Horse's take on the situation:

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=35221

[Show Me the Wire]

Valuaist:

Don't by an apologist for Illinois racing. Double D saved Illinois racing once by shuttering his palace, AP, for two years. Maybe he can step in and save Illinois racing again by shuttering all the tracks this time.

Dicky has set it in motion by calling the note the National Jokey, oops Jockey Club's note due. More fun n games.

Between the ITHA and Mr. D. what chance does Illinois racing have?

[Tom]

Not being able to bet AP is, well, devastating to me!:liar:
I don't miss, it, don't care, and if everyone would just stop betting all Chicago tracks, it would send them a strong message.
Remember the Mana boycott? Hit thme in the pocketbook.

Frankley, until AP figures out how to conduct races over a safe surface, I have no use for them. Racing 101 - they seem to have missed the class.

With all the other tracks available, I see nothing special about AP.
Who needs it???

[Valuist]

This isn't really even a Chicago racing issue. Its more about TVG and YouBet, as the Blood Horse article states......TVG jacked them around to the tune of $100 million over the past 5 years......and the ITHA isn't the only horseman's group who's questioned those numbers.

[KingChas]

Not being able to bet AP is, well, devastating to me!:liar:

With all the other tracks available, I see nothing special about AP.
Who needs it???

Damm now when am I going to get the time to get a beer and pee? :confused:

[highnote]

Not being able to bet AP is, well, devastating to me!:liar:
I don't miss, it, don't care, and if everyone would just stop betting all Chicago tracks, it would send them a strong message.
Remember the Mana boycott? Hit thme in the pocketbook.

Frankley, until AP figures out how to conduct races over a safe surface, I have no use for them. Racing 101 - they seem to have missed the class.

With all the other tracks available, I see nothing special about AP.
Who needs it???


I was going to say pretty much the same thing, but you beat me to it.

I quite playing NYRA long ago. Haven't missed it one bit. I like the night racing at Mountaineer -- big fields. Del Mar is fun. KY has good racing. Plenty of choices.

I have found that it is best to let "Old Man River" run his course. Eventually, it will get straightened out. When it does, I'll be there to bet. In the meantime, life's too short to miss out on good betting elsewhere.

Plus my satellite dish doesn't work because of the neighbors trees and I can't bet over the internet from CT -- so that rules out Youbet.

[richrosa]

Isn't this problem similar to the athlete who negotiates a multi-year contract, then decides before the second year, he's gonna holdout because he doesn't like the terms. The team management took the risk on the player and secured him financially by giving him terms, a market to play in, and guaranteed money. Don't we always flame the athletes when that happens?

In this case the horsemen are the athletes, they took the TVG deal for the money it offered and the security it gave them, and the market it exposed. Now when they find that the terms aren't to their liking anymore (because YouBet is wisely playing hardball), they are "holding out".

On an unrelated note, if TVG rips up the deal, and Hawthorne doesn't get televised, how does that benefit the horsemen? Other than forcing TVG to give better terms to a competitor to get them to carry the signal, they may stand to lose a lot here if TVG opts to dump the whole thing. Last I checked YouBet is not on satellite or cable. Regardless of whether or not one likes TVG, I have to believe that no matter where you wager, coverage on TVG has to help your handle. I'd personally much rather wager a track that I can watch on TVG rather than the tiny YouBet feed.

[andicap]

Curious -- just wondering,

Could the horsemen get a better (as good) a deal from HRTV? Could they be playing both sides to get the best terms?



Isn't this problem similar to the athlete who negotiates a multi-year contract, then decides before the second year, he's gonna holdout because he doesn't like the terms. The team management took the risk on the player and secured him financially by giving him terms, a market to play in, and guaranteed money. Don't we always flame the athletes when that happens?

In this case the horsemen are the athletes, they took the TVG deal for the money it offered and the security it gave them, and the market it exposed. Now when they find that the terms aren't to their liking anymore (because YouBet is wisely playing hardball), they are "holding out".

On an unrelated note, if TVG rips up the deal, and Hawthorne doesn't get televised, how does that benefit the horsemen? Other than forcing TVG to give better terms to a competitor to get them to carry the signal, they may stand to lose a lot here if TVG opts to dump the whole thing. Last I checked YouBet is not on satellite or cable. Regardless of whether or not one likes TVG, I have to believe that no matter where you wager, coverage on TVG has to help your handle. I'd personally much rather wager a track that I can watch on TVG rather than the tiny YouBet feed.

[richrosa]

They had last year to explore a deal with HRTV before signing with TVG. They decided last year that it was in their best interests to grant TVG an exclusive deal. This appears on the surface to be nothing more than a breach of contract by the horsemen because they don't like the result.

Curious -- just wondering,

Could the horsemen get a better (as good) a deal from HRTV? Could they be playing both sides to get the best terms?

[Valuist]

Curious -- just wondering,

Could the horsemen get a better (as good) a deal from HRTV? Could they be playing both sides to get the best terms?

The horsemen didn't negotiate the deal. Hawthorne did. According to the Blood Horse article, there's litigation between the horsemen and Hawthorne because Haw signed the exclusive deal without permission from the ITHA.

Could Hawthorne have signed with HRTV? They were on HRTV quite a bit last fall but not in Feb and March when HRTV has their big tracks running. But I doubt HRTV has as much money as TVG.

[Valuist]

They had last year to explore a deal with HRTV before signing with TVG. They decided last year that it was in their best interests to grant TVG an exclusive deal. This appears on the surface to be nothing more than a breach of contract by the horsemen because they don't like the result.

Once again, it wasn't the horsemen who signed the deal. It was Hawthorne who signed it without permission from the ITHA.

[garyoz]

The entity (likely corporation) that controls the racetrack is essentially a content provider, like the NFL or MLB. They contracted to make their product available for exclusive distribution. I don't see how this is in any way TVG's fault. It's sort of like the players wanting a cut of the a TV contract in some ways. Not sure of the contract between the track and horsemen. Or, if any really exists. I'm not taking sides, and I doubt anyone really cares about racing at Hawthorne. I also don't think much money can be involved. More short-sightedness and pettiness in the racing industry. It always is its own worst enemy.

[Valuist]

The entity (likely corporation) that controls the racetrack is essentially a content provider, like the NFL or MLB. They contracted to make their product available for exclusive distribution. I don't see how this is in any way TVG's fault. It's sort of like the players wanting a cut of the a TV contract in some ways. Not sure of the contract between the track and horsemen. Or, if any really exists. I'm not taking sides, and I doubt anyone really cares about racing at Hawthorne. I also don't think much money can be involved. More short-sightedness and pettiness in the racing industry. It always is its own worst enemy.

I think you'd be surprised how many people care. Just because its not Belmont or Santa Anita quality, there's PLENTY of bettable racing there. The fall meet tends to invariably get big fields and nice payoffs.

[Valuist]

Apparently this finally got solved. TVG decided to tear up the exclusivity agreement.

http://news.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=35326