Urgent Warning re: Churchill Downs

[MikeH]

If you have ever given Churchill any information on yourself, such as your phone number or e-mail address, they are now selling this information to Telemarketers. What's more, since I am a very part-time employee of Hollywood Park, I'm not sure if they got my phone number by crossing their various databases to "fill in the blanks."

I just received a phone call from Triple Crown RaceBooks, on my unlisted phone line, and normally I just hang up on these guys. But, when he said he was from a racebook, I became curious as to how he knew that I bet on the races, because I am VERY careful about who I give this info to. He told me that they had bought lists from CDSN!

Although I don't have a problem, any one that has done business with Churchill that hasn't reported all your income on your tax return could be in BIG trouble, because I'm sure the IRS will buy this list once they find out it is available.

What's more, just out of general principle, I don't like people to know that I play the races. It's none of their business, and they usually don't understand what it takes to make money at the races anyhow.

Furthermore, aren't these guys offshore? I don't have a problem with offshore books, but all of Tom Meeker's buddies have complained rather loudly about them. But it's ok to sell private info to them? What a bunch of hypocrites!

In my mind, this is a serious violation of my privacy. I have already had a conversation with a PI attorney friend of mine. Is anyone else interested in a lawsuit?

[so.cal.fan]

Mike,
Does TVG have anything to do with CDSN?
This has some very scary implications.
I hope all you guys who do business with these people will
investigate this..........and keep us posted on what you find out.
:eek:

[Jaguar]

Once frank Stronach has achieved hegemony, that is, once he has acquired all the major race tracks, closed the weak sisters, and networked his empire on one computer database, every single transaction at every track will be transparent to the federal government.

If you doubt this, don't be naive, look at what happened to the casinos. Their computers are transparent to the Treasury Department. Also note what happened to law-abiding firearms owners, who have gradually come to the realization that they have been federally databased, and that the atmosphere is becoming a bit toxic for them.

Gamblers who declare their winnings as taxable income have nothing to fear from Big Brother, but there are potential concerns relating to the aggregating of personal information by a corporation which will sure as Hell sell it- as previously noted by some observant members of this board.

Furthermore, please be aware that an enormous bureaucracy has to grow its budget so it can increase in power, so that there will be fertile ground for promotions and raises.

Hence, that agency must each year appear before Congress, wheedling and cajoling for more money. No one elected these folks in these huge agencies, but they rule the land, and have done so since the early 70's.

Things are a little out of control in America, and our democracy is threatened, and not just by terrorists, but also by federal employees sworn to protect our government and ostensibly our values.

How do we get America back? First, control our borders(and I doubt that America has the moral courage to do this).

Second, institute a very fair flat tax. Do away with most of the IRS.

Third, institute a national lottery and use the proceeds to fund regional Ombudsman's courts, to try and right the many wrongs perpetrated by federal agents and their captive court system against thousands of law-abiding Americans, over the years.

Fourth, reform the phoney grand jury system, which is a Star Chamber proceeding, and a rubber stamp for the prosecutor.

Fifth, meltdown some of these political boondoggles, such as the Dept. of Education, etc., etc.

Let's have local government and local schools again.

Lastly, end the taxation of gambling winnings, which taxation is actually double and triple taxation of the wage earner. To put it simply: taxing gambling winnings is grossly unfair, for obvious reasons.

All the best,

Jaguar

[so.cal.fan]

Jaguar!
How do we get you to run for President of the United States?
You sure as Hell would get my vote!
I like the way you think!

[MikeDee]

MikeH
Just becasue the guy who called said he got your name from CSDN, doesn't mean he really did. Why should you believe him? A off shore telemarkerter does not have a lot of credibility im my book! it might be a smokscreen to get customers to sign up and quit betting through on shore legal channels.

[rrbauer]

MikeH wroteAlthough I don't have a problem, any one that has done business with Churchill that hasn't reported all your income on your tax return could be in BIG trouble, because I'm sure the IRS will buy this list once they find out it is available.

Comment:
Why would the IRS buy a list? They have the backing of legal statutes that require racetracks file W2-G info for winnings complete with the recepient's SSN. They receive payment info from all US and some foreign financial institutions made to US citizens complete with the recepient's SSN. And, they have computer systems that match all this info with tax returns to identify non-filing/mis-filing data. As far as a few horseplayers making a few bucks offshore/onshore that gets under the IRS' radar, the feds can make more from busting one corporate CEO who has been cheating, than they can from shaking the mattress' of a hundred horseplayers!

[MikeH]

MikeDee -

There are many people on this Board (and others) that deal with Offshore books and have had good experiences. If I remember correctly, you are from Ohio. I don't know how the Ohio tracks treat their customers (I've dealt with Todd Bowker from Beulah Park/Americatab and he seems like an honest person who has his CUSTOMERS in mind), but I would take an offshore book any day to most of the management of the California racetracks, who only care about the VENDORS (the owners & trainers.) Most of the management of California racetracks view their customers with utter contempt, and many of them refuse to even walk through the general admission areas of their racetracks. I have had numerous bad experiences with California tracks, but, in all my visits to the Las Vegas and Laughlin racebooks, I've only been treated poorly ONCE. Most of the Nevada casinos have made it clear that they are interested in my business, even though I'm only a small bettor. In fact, several months ago, I went into the Laughlin Flamingo, where I used to hang out a lot, and the manager there was concerned because he hadn't seen me in a while and wanted to know if everything was ok. (The answer was that I met a nice lady in Las Vegas so I was spending most of my time there!)

This guy from the Racebook was actually polite. He sounded similar to many of the managers and supervisors that I have dealt with in the Nevada casinos. In retrospect, I'm sorry that I didn't get his name, but I have a "knee-jerk" reaction to Telemarketers and didn't react properly (especially after he told me that they had bought lists from CDSN.)

I work from my home and I guard my phone number very closely. I have a second "voice-mail" number that I usually give to people where I have accounts if I think that they might REALLY need to get in touch with me, otherwise I just make up a number. Since this guy knew I played the races, there are not very many places where he could have gotten the list from. Bris, Colts' Neck Data, Americatab, the California Golden State Rewards Network ("GSRN"), and TVG are the only places that have my home/office number. (And I'm sure Ken Massa/HTR has it also.) Hollywood Park (a wholly-owned subsidiary of Churchill) has this number because I am an employee there. (Well, I was until this happened. I was trying to help them out with Customer Service, because I thought I could help the industry a little with customer retention. I certainly wasn't doing it for the money, because I can bill in about an hour what I got paid all day there. And the manager and people that I worked with were enjoyable and competent, although the manager's boss could have cared less about me and what I was doing.)

I know from personal discussions with management at Bris, GSRN, and Americatab that they UNDERSTAND their customers' desires for confidentiality and would never sell their lists. Hollywood Park lacks the common business decency to even return the phone call that I left the other day, so right away I am extra suspicious. Plus I do know that several Hollywood Park employees have been very uncomfortable with things that Churchill has asked them to do since Churchill took over. California laws are very protective of the employee, while Kentucky has almost no protection of employees (and I'll add an off-the-topic comment here that somewhere in the middle in the right answer.) Churchill clearly lacks an understanding of my rights under California law, and, if my attorney sues them, it will be in a California state court located in downtown Los Angeles, because that is Hollywood Park's venue, and the juries in downtown LA are considered by many to be the best/worst (depending on your viewpoint)in the country for large verdicts.

Furthermore, I have had several discussions with knowledgeable people since I received the phone call, and none of these people have been surprised when I told them that CDSN had sold their lists. None of them have even suggested that it could have been someone else.

The bottom line is that I'd give you about 20-1 that it was someone else.

[MikeDee]

Tom, a couple of toughts:

I have been to various tracks around the country and I was at SA once a couple of years ago and I was struck by the attitude of the mutual clerks they weren't rude or mean but I guess indefferent, didn't ssen to care if I wagered or not, if fact seemed like I was bothering them with my wager.

Selling a customer list is one thing, but selling an employee or sub contractor list would be another. Can't image any company selling their employee list. Also, a employee or sub-contractor list would be a small list and I wouldn't think that it would be worth all that much. Especially since there is no guarentee that employess do in fact wager.

Selling a customer list makes more sense. but for a race track that depends on a a slice of a mutual pool for their existence it just does not compute that they would sell their customer list to a company that would take the wagers out of the pool:confused:

but anything is possible :)

[superfecta]

Originally posted by Jaguar



Things are a little out of control in America, and our democracy is threatened, and not just by terrorists, but also by federal employees sworn to protect our government and ostensibly our values.

How do we get America back? First, control our borders(and I doubt that America has the moral courage to do this).

Second, institute a very fair flat tax. Do away with most of the IRS.

Third, institute a national lottery and use the proceeds to fund regional Ombudsman's courts, to try and right the many wrongs perpetrated by federal agents and their captive court system against thousands of law-abiding Americans, over the years.

Fourth, reform the phoney grand jury system, which is a Star Chamber proceeding, and a rubber stamp for the prosecutor.

Fifth, meltdown some of these political boondoggles, such as the Dept. of Education, etc., etc.

Let's have local government and local schools again.

Lastly, end the taxation of gambling winnings, which taxation is actually double and triple taxation of the wage earner. To put it simply: taxing gambling winnings is grossly unfair, for obvious reasons.

All the best,

Jaguar
Box-uar,
If we close our borders,we will have a hard time finding people to work.Americans have welfare,Illegals have the will to survive.I would like to see that we don't let bad people in ,but its impossible.We are the greatest country in the world,thats why everyone wants to come here or take us down.Human nature comes into play.Jelousy or envy or the hope of making it big .The people here naturally are becoming lazy and spoiled.
You can see the same human emotions at the track ,some guys think they have all the answers,others are jelous of the winners they see and relish seeing them lose.Others bet longshots in hopes of winning a big amount,and yet some are studious ,working hard to find a winner,because working at a goal is more likely to provide rewards than guesses.Of course not all suceed,but there are plenty of people who do the right thing all their life and get run over by a bus for no reason.

I would like a flat tax,but its ingrained into the goverment,it will be hard to even scale it down.

Speaking of which,I would love to eliminate taxes on winnings but I know that is hard as well.

I would suggest a national lottery,but if you won,you would have to also serve as a legislator for your state for one term and eliminate the professional politician.

But we can all dream can't we?At least for the time being......