View Full Version : Coming soon......Pace Figures
DRF will release Randy Moss Pace Figures for selected tracks this fall. Other tracks will follow in the spring.
Also, 1-2 weeks away from on-line Simulcast DAILY. Some features updated daily, and Winner's Books for ALL NA tracks runnig (40 right now).
Plus, comprehensive Beyer pars for all tracks.
PlanB
08-23-2006, 07:33 PM
Who's Randy Moss? Do you think his figs are good?
blind squirrel
08-23-2006, 07:51 PM
Who's Randy Moss? Do you think his figs are good?
he's a wide receiver for the RAIDERS. i hear the BAY MEADOWS figs
are the best!
DJofSD
08-23-2006, 08:23 PM
Who's Randy Moss? Do you think his figs are good?
Randy is Kenny Mayne's dance partner.
Overlay
08-23-2006, 08:53 PM
Who's Randy Moss? Do you think his figs are good?
He's a racing analyst for ESPN. No opinion on his figures.
As I recall, prior to his gig with ESPN, he calculated the Beyer figs for the midwest tracks as part of Beyer Associates.
He wrote an article for Horseplayer Magazine on how to make his type of pace fig - a Beyer style.
KingChas
08-23-2006, 10:37 PM
Nothing is "Sacred" anymore. :cool:
He wrote an article for Horseplayer Magazine on how to make his type of pace fig - a Beyer style.
I wonder where he got that idea from :rolleyes:
Z
I wonder where he got that idea from :rolleyes:
Z
Wonder if he is a subscriber? :lol:
Wonder if he is a subscriber? :lol:
I doubt it! :D
In all sincerity, I actually welcome the competition. Making the pace figures isn't easy, but that really isn't the part of my stuff that I think sets it apart. It is in how I combine the pace and speed numbers along with a few other factors.
xfile
08-24-2006, 05:00 PM
I'm sorry but they are 10 years too late on this one to spark much of a flame :cool:
jeebus1083
08-24-2006, 05:21 PM
Where did you read or find out about this Tom?
jeebus1083
08-24-2006, 05:37 PM
Dang, I just subscribed to DRF Simulcast Weekly too. Hopefully those who have a Simo Weekly subscription will have the option to use either or. The good news is that I have a 6-month subscription. After that, I'll likely switch to the online version permanently, as I'd prefer printing the info rather than having to spread open a newspaper.
classhandicapper
08-24-2006, 05:50 PM
If they provide the information (in terms of content) that was in the original specs, I think it will be a valuable supplement. I can't comment much beyond that.
jeebus1083
08-24-2006, 10:12 PM
I don't think that the inclusion of pace figures will make that much of a difference. Let's be real, BRIS and TSN use them, and Equibase programs use them, so the market isn't as large as it would have been if DRF was first out of the gate with published pace figs. Because it's new to those who use the DRF, you can bet that many casual horseplayers who frequent on the weekends will use them incorrectly. Like the Beyer Speed figs, the Moss Pace figs are probably based on subjectivity, which means some of these pace figs will be inflated or will be lower than they should be. I'm a BRIS disciple, but I'll be interested to see how this pans out for the DRF.And to answer my own question from earlier, print subscribers of Simo Weekly will have access to the online Daily.
the_fat_man
08-24-2006, 10:46 PM
I don't think that the inclusion of pace figures will make that much of a difference. Let's be real, BRIS and TSN use them, and Equibase programs use them, so the market isn't as large as it would have been if DRF was first out of the gate with published pace figs. Because it's new to those who use the DRF, you can bet that many casual horseplayers who frequent on the weekends will use them incorrectly. Like the Beyer Speed figs, the Moss Pace figs are probably based on subjectivity, which means some of these pace figs will be inflated or will be lower than they should be. I'm a BRIS disciple, but I'll be interested to see how this pans out for the DRF.And to answer my own question from earlier, print subscribers of Simo Weekly will have access to the online Daily.
Let's see:
we have the Beyer Figs
we have the Bris speed Figs
we have the Bris pace figs
we have, my favorites, the TURKISH DRIED FIGS
we have CJ's pace figs
and, now, we have the DRF --Moss pace figs
seems to me, there's no longer a need for the FLOP component
as everyone will just go ALL IN:lol::lol:
before the flop
which
kinda makes it real nice for those not into speed or pace figs
knock yourselves out boys
ALL IN!!!!! (and hope there is no flop or that you get assy)
DJofSD
08-24-2006, 10:53 PM
Let's see:
we have the Beyer Fig
we have the Bris speed Figs
we have the Bris pace figs
we have CJ's pace figs
and, now, we have the DRF --Moss pace figs
Reminds you of Hollywood, doesn't it? Jaws, Jaws II, Jaws III, Rocky....you get the picture (pun intended).
Some people do not use pace figs because they only have ten fingers and cannot comprend double digit numbers.
KingChas
08-24-2006, 11:51 PM
Let's see:
We have ......................
........................etc
seems to me, there's no longer a need for the FLOP component
as everyone will just go ALL IN:lol::lol:
before the flop
which
kinda makes it real nice for those not into speed or pace figs
knock yourselves out boys
ALL IN!!!!! (and hope there is no flop or that you get assy)
Fat Man how could you forget? We also have the Budweiser longshot.
I've been using this angle for ages.
After sitting in the heat at Saratoga for the last 30 years I usually start seeing these Bud Longshots by race 5.
By race 10 they are really clear.
:D EASY! :p ;)
the_fat_man
08-24-2006, 11:58 PM
Fat Man how could you forget? We also have the Budweiser longshot.
I've been using this angle for ages.
After sitting in the heat at Saratoga for the last 30 years I usually start seeing these Bud Longshots by race 5.
By race 10 they are really clear.
:D EASY! :p ;)
This year you're in luck cause
the HIGH STEPPING
WEAK Contender, immediately after his effort in the Travers,
will take on the BUD clydesdales in a HIGH STEPPING competition
he can't run much, if you think BGC worked him over in the Haskell, wait till Bernardini has a go at him (and BGC) but he can sure pick 'em up :lol::lol:
KingChas
08-25-2006, 12:15 AM
Might have to ask my Minister about that. :cool:
Dan Montilion
08-25-2006, 01:44 AM
All this stuff just does'nt FIG...
Maxspa
08-25-2006, 07:48 AM
Dan,
Could you be more specific regarding pace figures! I respect your opinion but would like to briefly know your reasoning.
Thanks in advance!
Maxspa
delayjf
08-25-2006, 11:08 AM
and Equibase programs use them,
I didn't know the Equibase programs had pace figures, I'd heard they'd revised their speed figures, but when did they start using pace figures? :confused:
Vegas711
08-26-2006, 02:06 AM
I agree Pace figures in the DRF is no big deal. They are all ready everywhere, so who cares.
I got the impression they were going to be a web product, not in th PPs - email said exclusively to drf.com customers.
betovernetcapper
08-26-2006, 11:25 AM
I'm interested in seeing the beaten lengths adjustments. If they use the same scale as Beyers for other distances, it will be something like 8 points for a quarter and 4 points for a half.
I could be wrong, but I seriously doubt they are going to do 1/4 mile pace figures. I'm guessing 1 pace call per race, same as I do.
Alan Wight
09-08-2006, 12:55 PM
He (Randy Moss) wrote an article for Horseplayer Magazine on how to make his type of pace fig - a Beyer style.
Does anyone know which issue of Horseplayer Mag this appeared in?
It was a couple of years or so ago - I will see if I can find which number it was. Got to search the "stacks." :eek:
Steve 'StatMan'
09-08-2006, 10:48 PM
I looked at their website, but I didn't see an index to the their article in the past. I have them all, but they're everywhere. I'm hoping Tom or someone else finds it. I do remember seeing it, and reading at least some if not all of it.
FUGITIVE77
09-10-2006, 01:52 AM
I can't wait for the book to come out as I will definitely add it to my collection. I have most of Bill Watterson's books too.
I found it. Volume 8 Issue #4 July/August 2001.
Article name is "Moss on Speed." Page 46.
Alan Wight
09-10-2006, 09:29 PM
I found it. Volume 8 Issue #4 July/August 2001.
Article name is "Moss on Speed." Page 46.
Thanks Tom!
Dave Schwartz
09-10-2006, 11:08 PM
I found it. Volume 8 Issue #4 July/August 2001.
Article name is "Moss on Speed." Page 46.
Now that is an article I'd like to read.
Does anyone have a copy of that magazine issue (or just the article) that they'd be willing to part with?
Regards,
Dave Schwartz
Longshot
09-16-2006, 07:32 PM
Back issues of the Horseplayer magazine Volume 8 Issue # 4 July/August 2001
which contains the Moss article are still available for $7.00.
Check horseplayerdaily.com
Magazine Subscriptions/Buy Back Issues
Speaking of that, where oh where are the DRF pace figs?
Must be a sloooooow pace! :lol:
highnote
09-17-2006, 04:26 PM
I got the impression they were going to be a web product, not in th PPs - email said exclusively to drf.com customers.
That makes sense. Beyer owns the franchise on DRF printed speed figures. He has enough clout that DRF is not going to put pace figures next to his final time figures. Kind of like when Johnny Carson was the late night king -- Letterman or Leno and even Arsenio would not dare to compete against him -- mostly out of respect.
I still like Equiform's speed and pace figures the best. They are a velocity based hybrid. Kind of like Sartin pace ratings, but in a single number format like a Beyer.
jeebus1083
11-07-2006, 10:37 PM
When will the Randy Moss pace figs finally be released?
I'm beginning to think Charles Manson will be released first! :lol:
mhrussell
11-07-2006, 10:55 PM
I'm beginning to think Charles Manson will be released first! :lol:
Yeah, and I hear that his figures are just a cut above the rest ! :lol:
And there is no expiration date either. :faint:
delayjf
11-22-2006, 05:01 PM
Does anyone have a copy of that magazine issue (or just the article) that they'd be willing to part with?
Dave,
I have the article, PM me an address and I'll make a copy of it for you. As I recall, he bsically makes pace figures the way Beyer discribes in his last book, "Beyer on Speed".
When will the Randy Moss pace figs finally be released?
Maybe he is waiting for the other Randy Moss to catch his next pass.
bigmack
11-22-2006, 05:17 PM
Maybe he is waiting for the other Randy Moss to catch his next pass.
His figures for all horses in all races remains the same: 420
http://www.snopes.com/language/stories/420.htm
http://www.mugshots.com/IMAGES/P__mossmug.jpg
classhandicapper
11-24-2006, 01:05 PM
I was told that the Beta version for a few tracks should be out within a couple of weeks. I think it's going to be a very good product based on what I've been told.
Beta?
Whoah boy.
Few tracks?
As the Church lady would say," Well, isn't that special?"
Amazing what Cj has been able to put together, and continually improve on, without the resurces of a hug outfit like DRF.
Makes me really want to get in on these! NOT.
PlanB
11-28-2006, 04:52 AM
Where can I read about these pace figs? Will they be in the DRF?
andicap
11-28-2006, 09:47 AM
No matter if you use them or not the DRF pace figures will be important to all handicappers the way the Beyers are. That's because much of the public -- or at least the public that bets the most looks at the DRF and the Beyers (and presumably the pace figures) and its my opinion you should handicap the public as well as the horses.
This isn't original -- Pizzolla preaches this and I'm sure many others before him.
If the horse has strong Beyers but isn't getting bet like he should that raises a red flag for me. Conversely if the Beyers are weak and the horse IS getting action I want to know why.
Ideally I'd love to set up a database that tells me which trainers and/or owners win with sub-par Beyers and which ones run to them pretty fundamentally.
Same will likely be true with pace figures with one caveat. The public is not as comfortable with pace figures as it is with speed figures and is likely to misinterpret them much of the time, more so than with the Beyers.
classhandicapper
12-23-2006, 09:39 AM
Beta testing on the DRF pace figures has begun.
Beta testing on the DRF pace figures has begun.
BETA??????
They were talking about releasing them months ago!
Boy, those must be great numbers.
Hope nobody is holding their breath.
classhandicapper
12-23-2006, 01:30 PM
BETA??????
They were talking about releasing them months ago!
Boy, those must be great numbers.
Hope nobody is holding their breath.
The release date will probably be after January.
raybo
12-30-2006, 12:30 AM
I could be wrong, but I seriously doubt they are going to do 1/4 mile pace figures. I'm guessing 1 pace call per race, same as I do.
So, do you try to make your pace figure adjusted for race distance? Or do you do like Bris and just apply the same points per length for all distances? Seems to be a waste of time to say that a 90 pace figure at 1 1/16m is the same as a 90 at 6f. I believe there is definately an important place for pace figures but they must be equalized by distance to be of any use.
Mine are based on each individual distance.
raybo
12-30-2006, 08:41 AM
Mine are based on each individual distance.
Good for you. Glad to see that someone thinks like I do about pace figures.
Good for you. Glad to see that someone thinks like I do about pace figures.
The catch is, if you are trying to determine actual early speed, you have to realize that a 90 earned at 6f will be a quicker horse than one that gets a 90 at 1 mile, or even 7f.
You also have to consider that the pace ratings are calculated at different points of the race. A 4f pace call at 6f is calculated after 67% of the race has been run, while this same 4f pace call at 7f is calculated after only 57% of the race has been run. If the 5f call were available in 7f races, this would be 71%, which would be a much closer approximation to 6f races. Since it isn't and I must use the 4f call, I don't weigh a 7f pace rating as heavily, if that makes any sense.
raybo
12-30-2006, 10:56 AM
The catch is, if you are trying to determine actual early speed, you have to realize that a 90 earned at 6f will be a quicker horse than one that gets a 90 at 1 mile, or even 7f.
You also have to consider that the pace ratings are calculated at different points of the race. A 4f pace call at 6f is calculated after 67% of the race has been run, while this same 4f pace call at 7f is calculated after only 57% of the race has been run. If the 5f call were available in 7f races, this would be 71%, which would be a much closer approximation to 6f races. Since it isn't and I must use the 4f call, I don't weigh a 7f pace rating as heavily, if that makes any sense.
I agree with you wholeheartedly and anyone that believes that a 90 pace figure in a mile translates to a 90 at any other distance, point blank, needs to have his head examined, 'cause he's got a screw or 3 loose. I recently posted a thread concerning the way Bris figures their points per length to determine their pace figures and got almost no input from this forum. I am like many of you here and look at all manufactured "figures" very closely to determine how they were arrived at by the data suppliers. The public doesn't, and therefore put themselves at very high risk by using those numbers, as is. Trying to analyze pace when horses are moved from track to track, distance to distance, and surface to surface, like they are today, is extremely difficult and I think Bris or any other supplier of pace figures that doesn't take these things into account is doing the racing industry and the players a large disservice. Why would you use different points per length with speed numbers at differing distances, etc., and not do the same for pace numbers? The concept just doesn't make sense to me, and as a result, I will have to adjust them myself. I'm not a db guy so it will take quite some time for me to accomplish this. I hate treading water when I could be moving forward. Such a waste of time. After all, we pay good money for these figures, shouldn't they at least have some validity? Maybe I'm expecting too much from this greedy world and those profiteers who hoodwink those that let them. It's kinda like producing a drug to treat the symptoms rather than addressing the cause of the disease. Dang, do the drug companies actually do that?
Murph
12-30-2006, 01:13 PM
Hello raybo,
Not that it will matter much to you - but I cannot read your posts without a few paragraph breaks in there. Possibly, I am the only one having this trouble.
Murph
raybo
12-30-2006, 02:35 PM
Hello raybo,
Not that it will matter much to you - but I cannot read your posts without a few paragraph breaks in there. Possibly, I am the only one having this trouble.
Murph
????
Anyone else having this problem?
Murph, maybe you could paste my post in a reply and apply the correct grammatical touches to it.
Maybe I'll learn how to write properly in this forum.
Or, maybe not.
Murph
12-30-2006, 03:23 PM
I wasn't trying to start any trouble, Raybo.
Post as you wish, I was just letting you know.
Indulto
12-30-2006, 04:41 PM
????
Anyone else having this problem?
Murph, maybe you could paste my post in a reply and apply the correct grammatical touches to it.
Maybe I'll learn how to write properly in this forum.
Or, maybe not.raybo,
I found the post of yours in question to be interesting and informative, but difficult to follow without a few breaks, especially for those of us with vision problems.
I'm sure Murph was trying to be helpful even though his presumption that it wouldn't matter to you might be taken negatively by some.
cj once let me know that my posts sometimes appear in a larger font than I intend. I don't know whether he still has that problem or if anyone else does. If so, I will try to convert to a smaller font before I post.
One thing I sometimes find distracting is when a post contains imbedded line feeds (LF/CR) that prematurely start new lines because either the poster is manually terminating lines in an external editor -- or that editor is automatically inserting them -- before the text is pasted into this one.
I also find it difficult to read entire posts or even paragraphs that are bolded or capitalized (it's like shouting), but I often do that myself to indicate significant or relevant portions of posts I am quoting. If anyone feels this makes my posts harder to read, please let me know. IMO any suggestions for improving readability are most welcome.
I would use the editor here exclusively if there were some way to override the time-out criteria. I'm frequently pulled away from my PC and it's hard to regain focus under the circumstances.
One excellent feature of this BB is the ability to offset quotes in the shaded boxes. I would like to see more posters use it (especially those I read regularly -- you know who you are ;)).
Your font size appears fine now.
Indulto
12-30-2006, 05:35 PM
Your font size appears fine now.Thanks for the feedback.
To get back on-topic, I've been wondering if you're planning on doing a trial comparison of predictive performance (not unlike the ill-fated/defined Rag-TG study) between your figures and Moss' figures for the active major tracks, e.g., SA, GP, etc., for publishing on your site and possibly here.
I'm sure you've already concluded that the DRF's using pace figures will give the concept greater visibility, and provides the opportunity for independent vendors with a superior product to enter the market before the DRF's current product and supplier establishes a strangle-hold (have you read Bill Gates' biography? ;)).
Handiman
12-30-2006, 05:40 PM
My wife says my font is getting smaller as I get older. I tell her it's cause I've worn it down so much. :lol:
Handi
Indulto
12-30-2006, 06:04 PM
My wife says my font is getting smaller as I get older. I tell her it's cause I've worn it down so much. :lol:
HandiLittle Lord FONTleROI is sensitive to both bankroll and ball busting. ;)
PaceAdvantage
12-30-2006, 10:35 PM
I would use the editor here exclusively if there were some way to override the time-out criteria. I'm frequently pulled away from my PC and it's hard to regain focus under the circumstances.
I believe the time-out criteria you speak of has been doubled. Before it was 30 minutes, now it is 1 hour....
Thanks for the feedback.
To get back on-topic, I've been wondering if you're planning on doing a trial comparison of predictive performance (not unlike the ill-fated/defined Rag-TG study) between your figures and Moss' figures for the active major tracks, e.g., SA, GP, etc., for publishing on your site and possibly here.
I'm sure you've already concluded that the DRF's using pace figures will give the concept greater visibility, and provides the opportunity for independent vendors with a superior product to enter the market before the DRF's current product and supplier establishes a strangle-hold (have you read Bill Gates' biography? ;)).
The pace figures DRF are adding are just a small part of my stuff. I combine pace and speed to create an overall rating, as well as combining recent pace ratings to create an overall early speed rating. DRF isn't doing anything like this, and these are the main two parts of my program. So really, there is little to compare other than the actual pace figure itself for a race.
Marc At DRF
01-09-2007, 03:18 PM
Gang,
I originally mentioned Moss Pace Figures months ago knowing full well that we were nowhere near releasing them. The beta testing itself has gone remarkably smoothly (as compared to something like beta testing a new version of software, which is always a major challenge), as Randy and a team of in-house and out-of-house testers is making its way through the major circuits.
We'll launch major circuits as early as next month. I'd be surprised if it's later than March. And then smaller circuits over the summer. All tracks PPs will have Moss Pace Figures by then.
Let's be clear, this is exclusively an online product at DRF.com, not a print product in the pages of Daily Racing Form. You'll be able to buy them three different ways:
1) As part of an enhanced PP product, first in PDFs and in Formulator by summer (and Formulator customers can of course access the PDFs at no additional charge if they're looking at the Formulator file for the same card). How does it look? The Pace Fig Line is under the running line.
2) As a stand-alone PDF product. Meaning, a product with a horse's name, racedate, and just the pace fig info. This product will, we think, be appealing to our print customers who prefer the look and feel of the print product but still want to access pace figs.
3) Databaseable format for those of you want to database the pace figs.
We will probably offer a couple week trial period where anyone who downloads our regular stuff will have access to the pace-fig enhanced stuff.
I don't want to say too much about the figures themselves; there will be a tutorial that explains their nuances, and the sophistication will be evident. Pace Figures have been and continue to be the most requested handicapping product from our customers since I've been here (almost 7 years). DRF has never been comfortable with the limitation of more mechanical figures, so we've never been able to put something out that we feel is commensurate with our brand. Randy's work has effectively solved this problem--we're really excited about it.
44PACE
01-09-2007, 04:48 PM
Show us that You can make money with these figures. Using the figs post your selections for a couple of race days in the selection section of this site.
Tutorials are ok, after you can demonstrate that your product is worth the time.If the author of a method can not show a profit, then the figs are useless.
Indulto
01-09-2007, 05:32 PM
... Let's be clear, this is exclusively an online product at DRF.com, not a print product in the pages of Daily Racing Form. You'll be able to buy them three different ways:
1) As part of an enhanced PP product, first in PDFs and in Formulator by summer (and Formulator customers can of course access the PDFs at no additional charge if they're looking at the Formulator file for the same card). How does it look? The Pace Fig Line is under the running line.
2) As a stand-alone PDF product. Meaning, a product with a horse's name, racedate, and just the pace fig info. This product will, we think, be appealing to our print customers who prefer the look and feel of the print product but still want to access pace figs.
3) Databaseable format for those of you want to database the pace figsMarc,
Respectfully, I believe DRF's decision to deny pace figures to loyal print edition customers will open the door to competition that will provide them with hard copy.
Not being a figure-maker, perhaps my assumption that pace figures can be produced without copyrighted Equibase data -- and even more accurately from Trakus data -- is incorrect. And perhaps DRF on-line sales already "eclipse" print-edition sales.
Maybe my game wouldn't be positively affected by pace figures, but my hunch is that if DRF devalues the print edition, it devalues its image. Has DRF, in fact, distinguished itself as a data source substantially above its on-line competition? Without the prestige and acceptance of its print product, would DRF continue to retain its on-line market share; assuming its competition is also not standing still.
Of course the game and the business have changed since Kelso reigned supreme. The computer and in-home wagering, viewing, and video handicapping deserve their place and importance in the overall scheme of things. DRF is only mirroring the industry as a whole by discounting the on-track attendee. Bring on the Degenerating Racing Form! One can only hope its market will not eventually be limited to degenerates and octogenarians. :D
betovernetcapper
01-09-2007, 06:05 PM
Can't wait to see them :)
garyoz
01-09-2007, 09:10 PM
Marc,
Respectfully, I believe DRF's decision to deny pace figures to loyal print edition customers will open the door to competition that will provide them with hard copy.
[D [/font]
Here's an opinion--
As I recall from the Crist's Betting on Myself book, DRF users are very reactionary to any changes in how the form looks. Probably most customers would have no clue as to what a pace fig is--and hates any changes to the form. Speed figs are easy to understand. There's only one of them. And they only take up one column. --Pace figures would take up additional 3 or 4 columns (probably a figure for each split???)--The form also has on track competition from the in-house program & you don't want to drive the casual/older user to another product by increasing the complexity of form.
Finally, by making the pace figs only available online, you drive users to your web site, where hopefully you can sell them more products at a higher margin.
Indulto
01-09-2007, 10:49 PM
Here's an opinion--
As I recall from the Crist's Betting on Myself book, DRF users are very reactionary to any changes in how the form looks. Probably most customers would have no clue as to what a pace fig is--and hates any changes to the form. Speed figs are easy to understand. There's only one of them. And they only take up one column. --Pace figures would take up additional 3 or 4 columns (probably a figure for each split???)--The form also has on track competition from the in-house program & you don't want to drive the casual/older user to another product by increasing the complexity of form.
Finally, by making the pace figs only available online, you drive users to your web site, where hopefully you can sell them more products at a higher margin.GO,
I appreciate your response, but not your lower expectations for “most” DRF print edition customers.
I don't know any other print edition users (and I know quite a few) who don't use Beyers, or do use the old figure/variant for much other than a gauge of track condition.
It's hard to believe that, as a whole, we wouldn't welcome pace data to enhance our deliberations just as the Beyers have. I'm sure most would prefer a Beyer variant leaving room for at least an early pace rating. I doubt many would protest less width for jockey name and stakes name to get room for additional figures. Also space is available on either side of the odds column
Marc suggested to me in a previous thread that I use Formulator in order to print out PPs in larger font size. Perhaps that is the only solution now for me, personally, but it is not a convenient one, and will surely be more expensive, time-consuming, and irritating. Only the availability of Trakus data would be sufficient to motivate me positively to do that.
Marc At DRF
01-10-2007, 10:34 AM
The incomparable, invincible, unbeatable Indulto. :)
1) Garyoz has it right. Will pace figures migrate to the print edition of the DRF in the years to come? Perhaps, but for now, they're nowhere near popular enough to justify that. Indulto, we've polled our customers, and it's a small minority that wants them, for now.
2) Add a paceline to online editions, and there's no extra cost to us, outside of the development work that goes into it, basically a one-time deal. Add a paceline to print editions, and we've just added pages and pages and pages to every single print edition. This is expensive. Believe it or not, we don't love price increases. And we don't think something like this would grow circ enough to justify the additional cost.
3) Personally, as one who is rather groundloss-obsessed, I'm excited by Trakus data, too. But it's not even worth discussing, IMO, until they're providing data for about ten times as many tracks as they currently do. And even then, I imagine products utilizing their technology will start... online!
Indulto
01-10-2007, 03:59 PM
The incomparable, invincible, unbeatable Indulto. :)
1) Garyoz has it right. Will pace figures migrate to the print edition of the DRF in the years to come? Perhaps, but for now, they're nowhere near popular enough to justify that. Indulto, we've polled our customers, and it's a small minority that wants them, for now.
2) Add a paceline to online editions, and there's no extra cost to us, outside of the development work that goes into it, basically a one-time deal. Add a paceline to print editions, and we've just added pages and pages and pages to every single print edition. This is expensive. Believe it or not, we don't love price increases. And we don't think something like this would grow circ enough to justify the additional cost.
3) Personally, as one who is rather groundloss-obsessed, I'm excited by Trakus data, too. But it's not even worth discussing, IMO, until they're providing data for about ten times as many tracks as they currently do. And even then, I imagine products utilizing their technology will start... online!Marvelous, mysterious, motivating Marc
If there is indeed no practical way to include pace figure data in the print edition, then the term Degenerate Racing Fossil may soon apply to the print edition readership as well as the product we will no longer be able to afford.
I’ll have to change my pseudonym to Indultosaurus.:lol:
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