but we won't call it the DRAFT

[46zilzal]

Marines to recall troops to active duty

By Lolita C. Baldor / Associated Press

WASHINGTON - The Marine Corps will soon begin ordering thousands of its troops back to active duty because of a shortage of volunteers for Iraq and Afghanistan — the first involuntary recall since the early days of the war.

Up to 2,500 Marines will be brought back at a time, and there is no cap on the total number who may be forced back into service as the military helps fight the war on terror. The call-ups will begin in the next several months.

[46zilzal]

Poll: Opposition to Iraq war at all-time high

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Opposition among Americans to the war in Iraq has reached a new high, with only about a third of respondents saying they favor it, according to a poll released Monday.

Just 35 percent of 1,033 adults polled say they favor the war in Iraq; 61 percent say they oppose it -- the highest opposition noted in any CNN poll since the conflict began more than three years ago.

Despite the rising opposition to the war, President Bush said the U.S. will not withdraw from Iraq while he is president.

any wonder why he has the name of a vegetable.

[sq764]

Wow, who knew the draft consisted of Marines and not civilians..

Nice try though.. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Marines to recall troops to active duty

By Lolita C. Baldor / Associated Press

WASHINGTON - The Marine Corps will soon begin ordering thousands of its troops back to active duty because of a shortage of volunteers for Iraq and Afghanistan — the first involuntary recall since the early days of the war.

Up to 2,500 Marines will be brought back at a time, and there is no cap on the total number who may be forced back into service as the military helps fight the war on terror. The call-ups will begin in the next several months.

[sq764]

Makes you wonder how bad the Democratic candidate was for him to win 2 terms eh?

Poll: Opposition to Iraq war at all-time high

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Opposition among Americans to the war in Iraq has reached a new high, with only about a third of respondents saying they favor it, according to a poll released Monday.

Just 35 percent of 1,033 adults polled say they favor the war in Iraq; 61 percent say they oppose it -- the highest opposition noted in any CNN poll since the conflict began more than three years ago.

Despite the rising opposition to the war, President Bush said the U.S. will not withdraw from Iraq while he is president.

any wonder why he has the name of a vegetable.

[Secretariat]

It is a really tough times for these Marines and their families. An involuntary recall for the Marines. My heart goes out to their familes.

This makes our position that much weaker with Iran. This is not going to help recruitment.

[kenwoodallpromos]

"Despite the rising opposition to the war, President Bush said the U.S. will not withdraw from Iraq while he is president.

any wonder why he has the name of a vegetable."
__________
Sorry, If I've ever eaten bush I was unaware that I was eating my veggies!LOL!!
I asked the local recruiter last week how new enlistments were going and he said "ok".
I think they do take people who think catsup is a veggie but not bush!!

[Secretariat]

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Group_Bush_can_reinstate_draft_or_0823.html

"Group: Bush can reinstate the draft, or lose the Iraq War

Michael Roston
Published: Wednesday August 23, 2006

Fast on the heels of yesterday's Defense Department involuntary call up of Marine reserves, an Iraq veterans group tells RAW STORY that if a draft is not the next step, President Bush must choose to accept a loss in the war.

Reports yesterday indicated that 2,500 inactive reserve members of the Marines were called up for duty in Iraq. The Marines are members of the individual Ready Reserve and have already given four years of service, allowing them to return to civilian life. However, they are contractually obligated to return to service when needed.

But Jon Soltz, who heads up the group VoteVets.org, warned ABC News yesterday that the call up showed a lack of plans for victory in Iraq, and the problems faced by an overburdened American military. Soltz served as a captain in the Army in the Iraq war and is still a member of the reserves."

Personally, I am in favor of a draft. A draft indicates a lot. 1) Whether the country is behind the war, and willing to use all citizens regardless of financial situation. We're still lacking in Congressional contributions in terms of volunteers, and the WH has no volunteers. So while the'yre behind other people dying, they're unwilling to send their own families. Yes, I know McCain's nephew is thinking of volunteering. When you have commander in cheifs who during Vietnam opted out to distribute political flyers for a Senate campaign in Alabama, and a heartbeat away VP who declared he ahd more important things to deal with during Vietnam, it's no wonder that they treat other peoples' lives in so cavalier a fashion.

Hopefully, these Marines will be there until after the Mid-Term elections, and if Congress goes Dem perhaps they begin to realize that GW is the Commander in Chief in charge of how the war goes and its strategy. He is not contitutionally entitled to declare war or fund it, only execute it for which he has proven to be a disaster.

[lsbets]

[url] So while the'yre behind other people dying, they're unwilling to send their own families. Yes, I know McCain's nephew is thinking of volunteering.

Actually seven members of Congress have children serving or who have served in Iraq or Afghanistan. I believe as a percentage that would put it higher than the population in general (7/535= 1.3% ; if one third of our population is of childbearing age, that would be 100 million people, which would require 1.3 million to have served in Iraq or Afghanistan to hit the same percentage). Its not McCain's nephew - McCain has one son in the Naval Academy and his other son just enlisted in the Marines. Also, I forget the name of the Senator from Montana, but his nephew (not counted among the seven above) was just killed recently in Iraq.

[JustRalph]

It is a really tough times for these Marines and their families. An involuntary recall for the Marines. My heart goes out to their familes.

This makes our position that much weaker with Iran. This is not going to help recruitment.

yeah, I am sure you are worried about recruitment..........nor the families of Unknown Marines..........get real.

I got ordered back to active duty.......for 15 months........it sucked. I was in the reserve. I brought it on myself though............told an officer to cram it when he wanted to send me to Honduras for 90 days while I was already in the police academy. I finished the academy and got ordered back. It really sucked........but you do what you have to do. These guys will get through it.

[sq764]

Sec, you conveniently fail to mention it was the Marine's choice to either serve their 8 years OR serve 4 and be put on this Reserve and only have to serve 1 day a year, with the stipulation that they could be called up.

Why not tell the whole story for once.

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Group_Bush_can_reinstate_draft_or_0823.html

"Group: Bush can reinstate the draft, or lose the Iraq War

Michael Roston
Published: Wednesday August 23, 2006

Fast on the heels of yesterday's Defense Department involuntary call up of Marine reserves, an Iraq veterans group tells RAW STORY that if a draft is not the next step, President Bush must choose to accept a loss in the war.

Reports yesterday indicated that 2,500 inactive reserve members of the Marines were called up for duty in Iraq. The Marines are members of the individual Ready Reserve and have already given four years of service, allowing them to return to civilian life. However, they are contractually obligated to return to service when needed.

But Jon Soltz, who heads up the group VoteVets.org, warned ABC News yesterday that the call up showed a lack of plans for victory in Iraq, and the problems faced by an overburdened American military. Soltz served as a captain in the Army in the Iraq war and is still a member of the reserves."

Personally, I am in favor of a draft. A draft indicates a lot. 1) Whether the country is behind the war, and willing to use all citizens regardless of financial situation. We're still lacking in Congressional contributions in terms of volunteers, and the WH has no volunteers. So while the'yre behind other people dying, they're unwilling to send their own families. Yes, I know McCain's nephew is thinking of volunteering. When you have commander in cheifs who during Vietnam opted out to distribute political flyers for a Senate campaign in Alabama, and a heartbeat away VP who declared he ahd more important things to deal with during Vietnam, it's no wonder that they treat other peoples' lives in so cavalier a fashion.

Hopefully, these Marines will be there until after the Mid-Term elections, and if Congress goes Dem perhaps they begin to realize that GW is the Commander in Chief in charge of how the war goes and its strategy. He is not contitutionally entitled to declare war or fund it, only execute it for which he has proven to be a disaster.

[sq764]

Damn you LS, why do you keep ruining Sec's conjecture and heresay with facts.. You bastard..


Actually seven members of Congress have children serving or who have served in Iraq or Afghanistan. I believe as a percentage that would put it higher than the population in general (7/535= 1.3% ; if one third of our population is of childbearing age, that would be 100 million people, which would require 1.3 million to have served in Iraq or Afghanistan to hit the same percentage). Its not McCain's nephew - McCain has one son in the Naval Academy and his other son just enlisted in the Marines. Also, I forget the name of the Senator from Montana, but his nephew (not counted among the seven above) was just killed recently in Iraq.

[GaryG]

"Despite the rising opposition to the war, President Bush said the U.S. will not withdraw from Iraq while he is president.

any wonder why he has the name of a vegetable."
__________
Sorry, If I've ever eaten bush I was unaware that I was eating my veggies!LOL!!
I asked the local recruiter last week how new enlistments were going and he said "ok".
I think they do take people who think catsup is a veggie but not bush!!If eating bush constituted veggies then I.....oh never mind :eek:

[Tom]

Sec, what weakens us in Iraq is the numerous traitors in the democrat party who keep making statements like we will be cutting and running once they get control of tings again. What more could you tell the enemy to make them hold on?

The war of terror would be a lot further along is weren't for the gelded bastards on the left side of the aisle more worried about hurting some muslem's feelings than national security.

[Secretariat]

Actually seven members of Congress have children serving or who have served in Iraq or Afghanistan. I believe as a percentage that would put it higher than the population in general (7/535= 1.3% ; if one third of our population is of childbearing age, that would be 100 million people, which would require 1.3 million to have served in Iraq or Afghanistan to hit the same percentage). Its not McCain's nephew - McCain has one son in the Naval Academy and his other son just enlisted in the Marines. Also, I forget the name of the Senator from Montana, but his nephew (not counted among the seven above) was just killed recently in Iraq.

Isbets, thanks for the info. Could you list the seven members of Congress' chidren that have served in Iraq or Afganistan or post a link? (fyi..the nephew who was killed in Iraq was the nephew of Democratic Senator Max Baucus of Montana)

SQ, my post was not about it being their choice, it was about it being difficult for the familes of these people being called back. Look at my post.

[Lefty]

Poll: Opposition to Iraq war at all-time high

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Opposition among Americans to the war in Iraq has reached a new high, with only about a third of respondents saying they favor it, according to a poll released Monday.

Just 35 percent of 1,033 adults polled say they favor the war in Iraq; 61 percent say they oppose it -- the highest opposition noted in any CNN poll since the conflict began more than three years ago.

Despite the rising opposition to the war, President Bush said the U.S. will not withdraw from Iraq while he is president.

any wonder why he has the name of a vegetable.
46skunkcabbage, yes we have a pres who follows what he thinks is right and does not govern by polls. If that's a veggy, well they say veggies are good for yuh, son!

[ljb]

Sec,
Here is a link that talks about congress members with relatives in service. It does not specify where they are serving but is a start.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=2270473&page=1

[lsbets]

I'm going off the top of my head here from folks I have noticed mentioned over the pasta year:

Sen Kit Bond
Sen Tim Johnson
Rep Joe Wilson
Rep Todd Akin
Rep Duncan Hunter
Rep Ross-Leyitan (I know that spelling is wrong) in her case it is her stepson who is in the Marines.

That's 6, I'm not sure who the other one is, but I recall reading someone else's name. All of the children have or are serving in Iraq or Afghanistan, so this does not include McCain's kids, or other kids who are in the military but not deployed. I left off the party designations because I don't think party is relevant, it seemed that Sec thought party was relevant in the case of Max Baucus. Perhaps he might add that party deisgnations to the above legislators.

[Light]

yes we have a pres who follows what he thinks is right and does not govern by polls.

People who believe your statement above do not care for Democracy.They believe in dictatorships.

[Lefty]

People who believe your statement above do not care for Democracy.They believe in dictatorships.
This is about the most stupid statement i ever hoid(voice of Groucho)We do not have a direct democracy. We have a representive govt, and I expect my pres, whomever he may be, to do what's right and not what's popular. We have another pres. election in 2008 so there goes your stupid statement, up in flames.

[Light]

I'll tell you why Bush doesn't want to leave Iraq.Cause he's embarrased. He can't face it. He's like an immature adolescent who can't admit he made a mistake. He cant win the war there and he knows it now. He masks over his embarrasment by giving all these phony reasons why we should stay the course. Everyone who dies there,does so to save Bush from embarrassment and nothing else.Its not about Democracy anymore,or WMD's or Saddam. Its all about saving Bush's face while he's in the Whitehouse. That's why he said we'll never leave Iraq while he's president. He's pathetic.

[skate]

Makes you wonder how bad the Democratic candidate was for him to win 2 terms eh?

sq764;


good point.

reminds me of the chainsaw/edwards debte.

edwards w/ all his spit and polish, gets "clean clock" from big Dick.

hey, but with that said, i would love to see Hillary Billary back in office. oh oh oh , what a fun time.,

[Secretariat]

Sec,
Here is a link that talks about congress members with relatives in service. It does not specify where they are serving but is a start.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=2270473&page=1

I'm confused here because Isbets states that there are 7, and lists 6 off the top of his head, and is not including McCain.

Yet, in your article from ABC News, it states:

Aug. 3, 2006 — Thanks to Sen. John McCain's youngest son checking into Marine Corps boot camp, the number of Congress members with enlisted children will skyrocket a whopping 50 percent. McCain's son Jim joins two other enlisted service members who have a parent in Congress (a few members of the officer corps are children of federal legislators)."

So according to this article prior to McCain's son enlisting there were two other enlisted service members who have a parent in Congress. I am not sure if the writer is including Senator Baucus's son, or not.

The ABC News article you posted is called "Absence of America's Upper Class From the Military" based on research for her book: "AWOL, The Unexcused Absence of America's Upper Classes from Military Service and How it Hurts Our Country" (Harper Collins 2006).

Now, obviously, after reading this article and Isbets off the top recollection, there is a disconnect. The orignal point I was making which this writer elucidates so well gets to the core of why we need a draft. Thanks LJB. Great post.

[lsbets]

I'm confused here because Isbets states that there are 7, and lists 6 off the top of his head, and is not including McCain.

Yet, in your article from ABC News, it states:

Aug. 3, 2006 — Thanks to Sen. John McCain's youngest son checking into Marine Corps boot camp, the number of Congress members with enlisted children will skyrocket a whopping 50 percent. McCain's son Jim joins two other enlisted service members who have a parent in Congress (a few members of the officer corps are children of federal legislators)."

So according to this article prior to McCain's son enlisting there were two other enlisted service members who have a parent in Congress. I am not sure if the writer is including Senator Baucus's son, or not.

The ABC News article you posted is called "Absence of America's Upper Class From the Military" based on research for her book: "AWOL, The Unexcused Absence of America's Upper Classes from Military Service and How it Hurts Our Country" (Harper Collins 2006).

Now, obviously, after reading this article and Isbets off the top recollection, there is a disconnect. The orignal point I was making which this writer elucidates so well gets to the core of why we need a draft. Thanks LJB. Great post.

Sec - why don't you call the offices of the folks I've mentioned and ask if I am correct? You will find that I am. I did not state anything about enlisted versus officer. I stated serving or having served.

If you bother to fact check, you will find that what I stated is 100% correct. Facts are a bitch, especially when they do not fit your agenda. There is a disconnect - the writer had an agenda and did not bother looking at the facts.

[Tom]

I'll tell you why Bush doesn't want to leave Iraq.Cause he's embarrased. He can't face it. He's like an immature adolescent who can't admit he made a mistake. He cant win the war there and he knows it now. He masks over his embarrasment by giving all these phony reasons why we should stay the course. Everyone who dies there,does so to save Bush from embarrassment and nothing else.Its not about Democracy anymore,or WMD's or Saddam. Its all about saving Bush's face while he's in the Whitehouse. That's why he said we'll never leave Iraq while he's president. He's pathetic.

Why am I not surprised that YOU do not understand? What is pathetic is the people still insiting that islam is not the enemy. The people still insiting that the Iraqis do not wnat to be free. That the insurgents are not terrorists and are operating for the benefit of the Iraqi people. That's what is patheric.

[Tom]

Sec,
We do NOT need a darft.
The soliders being recalled are not for sheer numbers, but because of special training/abilities they have that are needed for the current situation.
Drafting new people will NOT fill that need.

[JustRalph]

I'll tell you why Bush doesn't want to leave Iraq.Cause he's embarrased. He can't face it. He's like an immature adolescent who can't admit he made a mistake. He cant win the war there and he knows it now. He masks over his embarrasment by giving all these phony reasons why we should stay the course. Everyone who dies there,does so to save Bush from embarrassment and nothing else.Its not about Democracy anymore,or WMD's or Saddam. Its all about saving Bush's face while he's in the Whitehouse. That's why he said we'll never leave Iraq while he's president. He's pathetic.

we can win that war anytime we want..........the american press won't let it happen........btw, it could be done with a phone call.........don't ever forget that.........

[Secretariat]

we can win that war anytime we want..........the american press won't let it happen........btw, it could be done with a phone call.........don't ever forget that.........

You are kidding right? The american press is so powerful that they are prohibiting america from winning the war? Even by your standards this is a real stretch.

btw.. Isbets, I did not say you wre incorrect, I said there was a disconnect. Obviously, this writer from ABC News could not possibly be correct. Another one of those amercian press that JR is saying won't let it happen.

[JustRalph]

You are kidding right? The american press is so powerful that they are prohibiting america from winning the war? Even by your standards this is a real stretch.

This shows how naive you really are..........

[Secretariat]

This shows how naive you really are..........

Even FOX News? JR, I'm sure you blame the American press on Vietnam as well. We've heard all this crap before decades ago.

[Lefty]

SEC, jr's absolutely right. We did not lose Vietnaam militarily, we lost because the American Press popisened peoples minds and it's happening again with Iraq. We can only lose if we leave. Light diesn't get it, but i really think you're brighter than that.

[46zilzal]

Vietnam was a mistake at it's inception. The idiots in charge just never understood that it was a lost cause at the outset....kind of like Iraq is.

[46zilzal]

I'll tell you why Bush doesn't want to leave Iraq.Cause he's embarrased. He can't face it. He's like an immature adolescent who can't admit he made a mistake. He cant win the war there and he knows it now. He masks over his embarrasment by giving all these phony reasons why we should stay the course. Everyone who dies there,does so to save Bush from embarrassment and nothing else.Its not about Democracy anymore,or WMD's or Saddam. Its all about saving Bush's face while he's in the Whitehouse. That's why he said we'll never leave Iraq while he's president. He's pathetic.
there is a lot to be said for this theory just like the clowns at the helm in South East Asia.

[PaceAdvantage]

He cant win the war there and he knows it now.

Like Suff has said in the past:

Dude, we won the war....in record time. We marched into the capital of Iraq and took down their leader and replaced him with a new government.

If that ain't winning on a major level, I don't know what is....

Now compare that to Vietnam and there is no comparison.....

46zilzal, stop comparing....and Light, stop saying we haven't won....

[46zilzal]

Now compare that to Vietnam and there is no comparison.....

46zilzal, stop comparing....and Light, stop saying we haven't won....
when the stupidity and lack of understanding of what a picikle these idiots got themselves into yet again, and learned nothing, then I will stop.

Body counts in Vietnam were huge: it made no difference.

[JustRalph]

more kids get killed in alcohol related stunts at college, than get killed in Iraq in a year. Depending on who's numbers you use........a bunch more!

I don't see you starting threads on the evils of Drink!

[Light]

Like Suff has said in the past:

Dude, we won the war....in record time. We marched into the capital of Iraq and took down their leader and replaced him with a new government.

If that ain't winning on a major level, I don't know what is....

Now compare that to Vietnam and there is no comparison.....

46zilzal, stop comparing....and Light, stop saying we haven't won....

Depends on your definition of what a win is. My definition is that you can't have won a war if you are still fighting it. I believe what you quoted would be more appropriate to winning a battle,but not the war.

[sq764]

Just relax.. When the Bush haters can somehow track teenage alcohol consumption to Bush, we will see the threads.

The underground Dem-led Bush hater lab is still stuck on the hanging chads, so it might be a while before we see the alcohol thread..


more kids get killed in alcohol related stunts at college, than get killed in Iraq in a year. Depending on who's numbers you use........a bunch more!

I don't see you starting threads on the evils of Drink!

[Lefty]

when the stupidity and lack of understanding of what a picikle these idiots got themselves into yet again, and learned nothing, then I will stop.

Body counts in Vietnam were huge: it made no difference.
And when you get a clue that there is worldwide terrorism and Iraq it its centerpiece, and that you're in as much danger as everyone else, then maybe you'll stop.

[Secretariat]

more kids get killed in alcohol related stunts at college, than get killed in Iraq in a year. Depending on who's numbers you use........a bunch more!

I don't see you starting threads on the evils of Drink!

Do you have the figures for this JR? Does that teenage stunt costs also apply to comparable wounded, and collateral damage, and to burgeoning deficits?

[BenDiesel26]

The deficit decreased 293 Billion dollars this past year in a time of war.

[Secretariat]

The deficit decreased 293 Billion dollars this past year in a time of war.

What is the deficit since the Iraq war began? Not the projected deficit. How much of this was spent on Iraq? Thank you.


btw..what happened about Aug. 22nd?

[Tom]

Do you have the figures for this JR? Does that teenage stunt costs also apply to comparable wounded, and collateral damage, and to burgeoning deficits?

http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/40/10/11

1,700 per year.
That's how many in 5 years?

What is our exit startegy for colleges?
We must pull our boys and girls out NOW.
We have been spending billions on college tutitions and we still do not have peace, and the death toll just continues to mount.

Dads applied, kids died!


Who ever authorized sending our kids into this quagmire anyways?

[Secretariat]

http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/40/10/11

1,700 per year.
That's how many in 5 years?

What is our exit startegy for colleges?
We must pull our boys and girls out NOW.
We have been spending billions on college tutitions and we still do not have peace, and the death toll just continues to mount.

Dads applied, kids died!


Who ever authorized sending our kids into this quagmire anyways?

Tom ,you missed the second part of the question I posted. btw...it is interesting to compare a drunk kid with a soldier who puts his life on the line voluntarily.

[BenDiesel26]

Sec what are your thoughts on Operation Bojinga, Berger, and why nothing was done back in 1995 to secure the country's airports when it was well known then that terrorists had planned to fly planes into buildings and blow them up in mid-air?

Nothing happened on August 22nd. I made a post for discussion based on speculation and thought it was interesting that the date Iran was going to disclose their answer had apocalyptic significance in the Islamic religion.

[Tom]

http://www.postchronicle.com/news/breakingnews/article_21235512.shtml


Our streets and highways are a quamire of death. People are dwarfing war casualties. Why are cars not being banned?

And in Iran:

http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=7611


We have to stop this nonsense over there - it already spreding here.

[JustRalph]

Do you have the figures for this JR? Does that teenage stunt costs also apply to comparable wounded, and collateral damage, and to burgeoning deficits?

you know how to use google. Get off your own ass and look it up.

[Secretariat]

you know how to use google. Get off your own ass and look it up.

I already have. The problem is you haven't.

[Lefty]

sec, do you know what burgeoning means? The deficits are much less than expected. I call that shrinking deficits.

[PaceAdvantage]

Depends on your definition of what a win is.

I don't see how you can define it otherwise, if indeed we were actually at war with Iraq's military, with the ultimate goal being to dismantle the dictatorship that was in place. (All the while, losing less Americans over a three year period than were lost in two freakin hours on 9/11).

When you think about it like that, it kind of puts things in perspective.

[Tom]

sec, do you know what burgeoning means? The deficits are much less than expected. I call that shrinking deficits.

Ongoing burgers?
Sounds good to me!