database revisited

[tilson]

I asked a question to Larry Hamilton and he was most gracious in responding promptly. However, inclusive in his answer was something i have always seen as a MAJOR flaw in databases.
I was asking about WHAT program would allow me to see data in DRF format and then allow me to manipulate data in a user friendly way....I was particularly interested in Beyers...Larry pretty much said Beyers aren't available in many (if any) databases....that was problem number One.
Two (i may be mistaken) but i believe most databases are pre packaged so to speak....The way i see it.....who cares if someone elses gives this horse a pace number of X or a speed number of X.
If i can't Direct a database to applied a VERY SPECIFIC mathimatical formula in a VERY SPECIFIC way.....whats the point ? AND when i say specific i don't mean a clickable option rather something that might be more hand crafted then applied vs the data.
Just from keeping my own "pencil" records....I know i am far above average at 7f, 1 mile 1/4 and/or Turf races...I also have been rather weak at almost any other situation.
Thanks in Advance for your 2 cents

[Tom]

You can export DRF data from Formulator files into comma deliminated files whcih you can then iport into databases or spreadsheets. The Beyer numbers are included in this data. You can enter your own formulas for manipulating the data however you want to.
Tom

[tilson]

Originally posted by tilson
I asked a question to Larry Hamilton and he was most gracious in responding promptly. However, inclusive in his answer was something i have always seen as a MAJOR flaw in databases.
I was asking about WHAT program would allow me to see data in DRF format and then allow me to manipulate data in a user friendly way....I was particularly interested in Beyers...Larry pretty much said Beyers aren't available in many (if any) databases....that was problem number One.
Two (i may be mistaken) but i believe most databases are pre packaged so to speak....The way i see it.....who cares if someone elses gives this horse a pace number of X or a speed number of X.
If i can't Direct a database to applied a VERY SPECIFIC mathimatical formula in a VERY SPECIFIC way.....whats the point ? AND when i say specific i don't mean a clickable option rather something that might be more hand crafted then applied vs the data.
Just from keeping my own "pencil" records....I know i am far above average at 7f, 1 mile 1/4 and/or Turf races...I also have been rather weak at almost any other situation.
Thanks in Advance for your 2 cents

If what i have written here is a complete falsehood and/or a grand misconception....i would appreicate being steered the right way (as it specifically relates to the above.)
Again i would be almost exclusively interested in a database that would allow a user friendly application of hand crafted (yet rather simple matimatical forumals) which could be targeted at specific areas of DRF formated data.

[Tom]

I know there are easier ways than this, but I just don't howto do it in Access yet. What I do is download Trackmaster charts for certain tracks every day. This data goes into Access and then I export the specific data I need for variuos purposes into Excel. I have pre-written the formulas in Excel and then just cut and part the data onto the sheet I need and calculate. For example, Excel Rows 1-8 are improte4d data from my Access querry. Rows 9-15 are calcualted field using that data. What I do is hand-enter the beyers from Sim Weekly, use Dave Schwartz's conversion of the beyer into a Qurinn-style number. Then I use Dave's pars to turn the race times into speed and pace figures, calculate daily variants from this, and then print out adjusted Quirinn-stlye speed pace numbers with race shape notations. The small file attached is what I end up with.
Tom

(Sorry-cannot attach any type of file for some reason)

[Lefty]

If you want a specific mathematically derived no. then
Beyer nos. aren't it. They are LOADED with subjectivety
and even tinkered with even after they have been published. This, according to Mark Hopkins(A Beyer Associate) in a DRF article many yrs ago.

[Dick Schmidt]

Lefty,

You are correct about the tinkering. I've watched Andy do it. It is considered a strong point, not a weakness in the numbers. Of course, it drives database keepers absolutely mad. The numbers are always shifting. That's OK for the guy making the numbers, as they are always current in HIS database, but if you have imported the ratings, you have no clue they have changed unless your database goes back and looks at all ten lines, not just the new information. Even then you can miss something if a horse runs a few times at a track you don't follow. Sorry I don't have a good answer to this problem other than not to track numbers that can change at the drop of an opinion.

Dick

[tilson]

Ya know i don't want to go off on a tangent from the orginal subject but almost anything in the form that relates to beyers or beaten lenghts........or any piece of data that indicates times, varients, or running lines, is no where near prefect.
We just have to work the data provided to the best of our ability.
I mean if i were to point out the discrepencies in much of this data, this post would be several pages long and i don't even want to go there.
The same is also true of sheets numbers etc etc etc.
Lastly, I Find it Laughable that with all the software programs out there (not one I know of) provides info in DRF format. I mean everyone here knows that DRF format is the "STANDARD/BIBLE" of racing.
As i said before (in most cases) i find pre packaged "numbers" of little or no use.
I don't think there is a "Capper" who EVER LIVED who can exhibit a good degree of success UNLESS he has found a way to manipulate these numbers in a way that is UNIQUE unto himself.
Lastly i was really hoping that one or two guys here would say that NOT ONLY IS YOUR ORGINAL Post a misconception, You can do what you want to do easily and in the following user friendly way.

[Larry Hamilton]

I think you misunderstand.

You can get the beyer easily, you can even get it in a comma delimited file which means you can put it in any data base you like. What you cannot do, is put all this data in a format that is user friendly to the novice db capper. You gotta work at it and when your knowledge equals your desire for information and manipulation of that informartion, then it is USER FRIENDLY. Until you learn, anyone tells you its user friendly is blowing smoke.

This is also the last word I am going to post about dbs (unless I forget myself). Those of you who know data bases know what I am talking about and those of you dont have data bases will either learn or you wont, nothing we say is going to change that.

[Rick Ransom]

tilson,

I understand your frustration with all of this, but I don't see why you prefer Beyer speed ratings. They're pretty much all the same except that the Beyers are overexposed and partly subjective (as previously mentioned). You can get comma delimited files from TSN with BRIS speed ratings for as little as 0.50 per card, and print out PPs similar to DRF with their Past Performance Generator.

But you're right about there not being a simple software tool out there that just imports files and lets you combine factors in any way you choose. That's why I use my own C program. It's totally flexible and I can try any wild scheme I like just by programming it. I don't download files, though because some of the data I need is not available in that format at an affordable rate. So I type it in manually. This works for me because I was a computer programmer for 20 years and already know how to write software, and I have the time to enter the data.

My advice is to learn a little about programming and write your own software to use downloaded files. I don't recommend using spreadsheets (too inflexible for racing data) or databases (takes too much time to learn).

[Tom]

This site has program that converts the TSN or BRIS PP files into a comma delimited file quickly and easliy and then you can import it into a database or spreadsheet.

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/tracktout/database.html

I agree about the Beyer's changing-last year, the figs for Finger Lakes were all changed-by +2 for a specific time period and then by +1 for another. Sometime the number itself is not right-a horse beaten 1 length at 6 furlongs should earnb a beyer 2 less than the winner. I have found cases where it is actually 9 points lower.
there are lots of errors in DRF data especially with Beyer
numbers. But hey, what a length or two amoung friends?
Tom

[Rick Ransom]

Tom,

I've heard it said (but never tested it) that when one of the non-Beyer speed ratings has a horse ranked first but Beyer doesn't, you have an overlay. It may even be true with the old DRF speed figures now, since nobody under 70 looks at them any more.

[Lefty]

Hmmm, a simple horsey type DB that let's you download
comma delimited files(say TSN) and then let DL free results and then let you manipulate data anyway you want and give win pct. and roi's. Sounds like something
I want.