My racing pet peeve

[cj]

Del, Mth, and ElP all have the same exact post time for their race. There are not many tracks running right now, furthering the notion that noone in racing management has a clue.

[bigmack]

Notion? That's the fact Jack.

Holy tamale it's a no brainer fellas stagger the posts why don't ya?

[46zilzal]

a carry over to tradition without considering the new on line audiences?

[cj]

It is not getting any better :mad:

Sar 2:04
Mth 2:07
Del 2:07
ElP 2:08

[Indulto]

It is not getting any better :mad:

Sar 2:04
Mth 2:07
Del 2:07
ElP 2:08
Gone Tomorrow?by Ray Paulick
http://opinions.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=34975 (http://opinions.bloodhorse.com/viewstory.asp?id=34975)
… That 1997 Jockey Club Round Table outlined the challenges the industry faced in trying to create a "league office" in a sport fragmented by disparate state regulations, competitive rivalries among racetracks, and bickering among horsemen's organizations.

… The slight, whether by intention or coincidence, comes at a critical time for the NTRA, which, without a champion among key industry leaders, will continue its spiral toward irrelevancy as an underfunded, underappreciated, and, on occasion, underachieving organization. One of the unforeseen challenges that has burdened the NTRA almost from the outset is the inordinate amount of time its management has had to spend nurturing fragile industry alliances and securing membership renewals -- time that could have been spent working on programs to fulfill its mission. Those efforts hamstring the organization to this day.

This year's Round Table dealt with important subjects such as drug testing, wagering integrity, racetrack safety, and the future of racing in New York. But few of the challenges that led Phipps and others to see the necessity of a strong national office for racing nine years ago have gone away.

Is the NTRA an idea whose time is already gone?

[kenwoodallpromos]

(CHRB: Things are bad, don't change a thing!)
________________

My email back to CHRB:
I just received this. According to the rulings at this meeting I can expect:
1)Track pools NOT to be up 13-26% in certain coupling races;
2) My online betting (mostly Ca tracks) to continue to be confined to 3 sites;
3) Possibly more coupling of now uncoupled horses of owners;
4) To see USTA length whips (3 feet 9 inches);
5) Current acknowledgement of short fields in Ca.
OK, I got it!
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 9:30 AM
Subject: CHRB NEWS RELEASE


CHRB NEWS RELEASE AUGUST 17, 2006

BOARD DECIDES TO CONTINUE COUPLING ENTRIES
DEL MAR, CA – The California Horse Racing Board voted Thursday against the uncoupling of horses with common ownership, and going one step further, the racing commissioners questioned whether horses with the same trainer should be allowed to run as separate wagering interests.
In reports to the Board, Hollywood Park and Bay Meadows estimated the additional wagering interests created by the uncoupling caused handle in to increase 13-26%.
The commissioners voted 5-0 against repealing the rules. Commissioner Harris abstained, and then commented, “If there is good reason to require that same-owner horses be coupled, then we should look at the trainers also.” Chairman Shapiro concurred and indicated the trainer matter would be placed on the agenda for the next Board meeting September 14 at Fairplex Park.
__________
In other business, the Board deferred a matter relating to hub fees to the September 14 meeting but first heard brief testimony from representatives of the TOC and TVG, one of the ****three authorized Advance Deposit Wagering (ADW) providers in California.
“I am advised that TVG and TOC have agreed to sit down face to face during the next 30 days to try to resolve the ongoing dispute over hub fee rates,” announced Chairman Shapiro. “It’s a big step forward if the principals will get in a room and work things out for the betterment of racing and without the involvement of the CHRB, which is my preference."
“We’ve seen cannibalization of our fans and more revenue streaming through ADW providers and less flowing through our racetracks,” he noted.
Commissioner Harris described ADW as having “great potential” and suggested, “Even though some adjustments might need to be made, it does hold great promise for the industry.”
____
At Hollywood Park, the Alameda County Fair, and the Solano County Fair, a recurring theme was lower handle, smaller attendance, and projections for decreases in business.
______________
The Board approved a rule amendment bringing the length of a driver’s whip in line with the United States Trotting Association requirements. (ACTION!!)

[classhandicapper]

Del, Mth, and ElP all have the same exact post time for their race. There are not many tracks running right now, furthering the notion that noone in racing management has a clue.

It's preposterous in an era of simulcasting!!!

[bigmack]

Just keep in mind for Thurs:

10:07 SAR 03
10:08 ELP 02
10:08 MTH 04

12:25 AP 06
12:25 LAD 05
12:25 MTH 09
12:25 RD 11
12:26 LRL 03

[kenwoodallpromos]

I do not think the time would matter for betting, but maybe for however many races you want to try to watch at the same time.

[bigmack]

I do not think the time would matter for betting, but maybe for however many races you want to try to watch at the same time.
Guess it depends on when you enter your wag's - I've always been a procrastinator

[Zaf]

It is not getting any better :mad:

Sar 2:04
Mth 2:07
Del 2:07
ElP 2:08

CJ,

You have to realize , not everybody is betting 6 races at once like you. :lol:

Z ;)

[Indulto]

(CHRB: Things are bad, don't change a thing!)KW,
I don’t agree that the CHRB is as ineffectual as the NTRA. Hollywood Park would never have gone for Polytrak w/o the CHRB mandate. Horsemen and vets are still given more leeway than in NY, but trainers like O’Neil and Mullins with high win% are definitely getting more attention now.

Eating Up the Turf and Surf By Bill Dwyre, Times Staff Writer
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-racing19aug19,0,3302009.story?page=1&coll=la-home-headlines (http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-racing19aug19,0,3302009.story?page=1&coll=la-home-headlines)
… Liebau also pointed out that Hollywood Park is about to spend $8-$10 million on a new synthetic track, presumably safer, and a new chute for its Lakeside turf course. "The company wants us to operate as if we will be here, racing, forever," Liebau said, "and that's what we are doing." Still, the appearance of the first wrecking ball at Hollywood Park will not be a huge shock, when and if that happens. The on-site betting numbers were up slightly at its recently completed meeting, as were the average number of horses starting each race, up from 7.2 to 8.1, an important statistic for horsemen.

But Liebau is a realist, and when his biggest day, the Hollywood Gold Cup, which also included the graded Swaps Stakes, drew only 8,300 and had a total of nine horses starting in the two races, he knew those numbers don't keep tracks open for long.It isn’t just post times that could benefit from a national “League Office.” More sensible stakes scheduling should be a priority.

The Suburban at BEL was run on July 1 and the HOL Gold Cup on July 8. Why were these two G1 1-1/4 m races scheduled so close together that the field sizes of both were minimized. Similarly, the Manhattan at BEL and the C. Whittingham Mem at HOL -- G1s at 1-1/4 m on turf -- were both run on same day, June 10.

Why is the $400,000 Swaps for 3YO run on the same day as the $750,000 Gold Cup? 3YOs have won the Metropolitan and then the Belmont, why can’t a 3YO run in both the Swaps AND the Gold Cup?

[kenwoodallpromos]

This CHRB meet report is an exception in the holding on to old ways thinking, but I thought it added to the discussion of old-think. They are often willing to try new things and are responsive to my sugesstions.
In prior posts I believe I mentioned about so many independent sectors in racing- independent agents, connections, associations; from owners to trainers to jockeys and their independent groups to meet associations to HBPA to racing commissioners, and the competitive nature of the business between persons of the same occupation and tracks competing for horses and pools.
Sometimes it seems like it takes a major obvious advantage for people to get on board.
Maybe tracks would have to be sold on the idea the pools would increase with more staggereed post times.

[joeyspicks]

Del, Mth, and ElP all have the same exact post time for their race. There are not many tracks running right now, furthering the notion that noone in racing management has a clue.


Racing management has got to be the dumbest! Ive wondered about this for years. It cannot be THAT difficult to coordinate starting times......even 5 minutes would good!

[ryesteve]

Racing management has got to be the dumbest! Ive wondered about this for years. It cannot be THAT difficult to coordinate starting times......even 5 minutes would good!
Given that the tracks have at most half an hour between races, that'd let you have only 6 tracks running on this "every 5 minutes" schedule. On a saturday afternoon, what are the other 15 tracks supposed to do? Unless you want all these tracks to have 90 minutes between their races, I don't understand how you expect them to accomodate you.

[KingChas]

So they stagger them.What happens when problems arise?Saratoga or should I say NYRA would screw the whole schedule up on the first gate loading of 2 year olds.
Plus too many intangibles,breakdowns,injuries,inquiries....etc.
Some days these situations do stagger the races starting times naturally.
We are not working with greyhounds here. ;)

[Valuist]

Del, Mth, and ElP all have the same exact post time for their race. There are not many tracks running right now, furthering the notion that noone in racing management has a clue.

Have you noticed that two CDI tracks won't run simultaneously? I believe its the same for Magna. So if Arlington is running, Churchill will wait til the race is over. If Lone Star was running, they'd say screw it and run anyways. I have noticed some tracks will accomodate New York and wait until the NY race is over. Of course they don't wait long.

My biggest pet peeves are the way tracks handle late scratches with regard to multirace wagers. Pinnacle "gets it". Just issue a refund. No nonsense about getting stuck with a favorite. And NY really needs to eliminate that stupid rule re: late scratches of coupled entries.

[cj]

I actually agree with the NY scratch rule. I would not want to be stuck with one half of an entry if when I bet both were listed as runners. The solution is to get rid of entries all together, or get a better gate crew. The number of gate scratches lately in NYRA is insane!

I do like Pinnacle's rules with regards to scratches in Pick 3/4s.

As for race staggering, the reasons why it can't be done sound like those of racetrack officials. At least schedule the races at different times. If something happens to delay the start, such is life.

I also realize that on Saturdays there can be 20 or more tracks running at the same time. I am not saying they should all work together. Let NYRA and SoCal set their post, then the mid tier tracks such as Ellis, Monmouth, Arlington, etc. fill in the gaps. The small tracks can do what they want, but it would be in their best interest to try to find the gaps. Would Thistledown be bet more if it went off the same time as Saratoga and Monmouth, or the same time as Ellis or Philly Park? This stuff isn't rocket science. If the tracks run at the same time, some of them are going to get short changed. It is their call. If they don't want the most money in the pools they can get, fine.

[Valuist]

You're right. Unfortunately, the answer is the same why there isn't unified medication rules. Everyone has tunnel vision. Ultimately, most members of track management have never made a bet and just can't see through the betting public's eyes. Something like this probably never occurs to them.

The NTRA players panel should pick up on this. Supposedly they have a voice.

[joeyspicks]

I understand. Im not asking for COMPLETE Syncorization. Just common sense. Like when three tracks are starting (only 3 !!) Make the starting race at 1 105 110...




...instead of ALL THREE AT 1

[Indulto]

This CHRB meet report is an exception in the holding on to old ways thinking, but I thought it added to the discussion of old-think. They are often willing to try new things and are responsive to my sugesstions.
In prior posts I believe I mentioned about so many independent sectors in racing- independent agents, connections, associations; from owners to trainers to jockeys and their independent groups to meet associations to HBPA to racing commissioners, and the competitive nature of the business between persons of the same occupation and tracks competing for horses and pools.
Sometimes it seems like it takes a major obvious advantage for people to get on board.
Maybe tracks would have to be sold on the idea the pools would increase with more staggereed post times.KW.
I thought I remembered this old post of yours:

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20283&page=3&pp=15 (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20283&page=3&pp=15)

Post #36


How many “Bring Back The Fans Committee” meetings were actually held and did you ever attend any? Did you ever actually receive those minutes?

[kenwoodallpromos]

KW.
I thought I remembered this old post of yours:

http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20283&page=3&pp=15 (http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20283&page=3&pp=15)

Post #36


How many “Bring Back The Fans Committee” meetings were actually held and did you ever attend any? Did you ever actually receive those minutes?
___________--
I got notices of about 2 meetings.
CHRB- "We are looking at creating bets that require no thinking"
Yes, I remember that! I think right after that the CA fairs and Fairplex opened so they already had what they wanted! Or else they assigned Mullins to come up with something!LOL!
They are OK at figuring out big contracts, rules, and how to get $$$ to the big breeders and owners, but like most everyone except bettors, "fans" (gamblers) are a non-entity unless the pools start shrinking and the owners start hollering about bigger purses.
Then see how fast they pay attention to internet betting!
As long as the only sector of racing that does not care about or want any organized representation is the "fans" (gamblers), why shouls anyone else in racing care?
_______________________
The point made that Magna and CDI protect their own turf by staggering post times, and the point made that So Cal and NY should get first pick of start times is interesting considering the last Belmont stats show it is sinking fast, and I believe attendance has gone down in So Cal this year.
Penn National should get preference!
________So Cal racing- current article from Times:
"The state's Thoroughbred industry is seeking a percentage slot machine revenue from Indian casinos under new compacts between state and tribal government that would allow casino expansion on Indian reservations and could stand for up to 40 years.

Thoroughbred Industry representatives are lobbying for companion legislation in which a portion of the state's share of the revenue would go to the tracks to compensate for the economic distress or harm potentially caused by anticipated expansion."
As far as I know no Indian casino in Ca charges admission.

[Indulto]

I got notices of about 2 meetings.
CHRB- "We are looking at creating bets that require no thinking"
Yes, I remember that! I think right after that the CA fairs and Fairplex opened so they already had what they wanted! Or else they assigned Mullins to come up with something!LOL!:lol:They are OK at figuring out big contracts, rules, and how to get $$$ to the big breeders and owners, but like most everyone except bettors, "fans" (gamblers) are a non-entity unless the pools start shrinking and the owners start hollering about bigger purses.
Then see how fast they pay attention to internet betting!
As long as the only sector of racing that does not care about or want any organized representation is the "fans" (gamblers), why shouls anyone else in racing care?If CHRB were really a "friend of the fan," they would view non-professionals off-track to be as important as they do those on-track. One way they could demonstrate such willingness would be to fund an ADW ombudsman to log customer complaints and ensure they are dealt with by the vendors fairly and promptly.The point made that Magna and CDI protect their own turf by staggering post times, and the point made that So Cal and NY should get first pick of start times is interesting considering the last Belmont stats show it is sinking fast, and I believe attendance has gone down in So Cal this year.
Penn National should get preference!Post time order could be resolved by purse value with ties resolved by avg. daily handle:
Top-ranked tier of 5 -- 4 min. apart
2nd-ranked tier of 7 -- 3 min. apart , 3 min. after top-ranked track's post
3rd-ranked tier of 5 -- 3 min. apart, 5 min after top-ranked post

I've never seen that many tracks shown simultaneously at HOL, and I don't know what maximums are typically televised by TVG and/or HRTV, separately or in combination.

[bigmack]

How bout a round of applause for Emerald - First post 2:12!

http://k1k1du13.k.skyblog.com/pics/48519466.gif