out of retirement

[46zilzal]

Caller One is in an optional claimer today at Saratoga. One would have thought this one had earned it's retirement by now.

[Stevie Belmont]

Has been running in 2 furlong events over the past few years. He will be going to stud soon.

[GaryG]

Has been running in 2 furlong events over the past few years. He will be going to stud soon.Only if the gelding process is reversible.

[LaughAndBeMerry]

According to his conncetions, the story is they "simply can't keep him down on the farm. He just loves to train."

Lets hope this story doesn't have an unhappy ending. I've seen too many old horses that deserve the life of leisure die on the track after being brought out of a lengthy retirement.

[cj]

His retirement wasn't that lengthy. He was off for over two years, but has been running the last three years, admittedly sparingly.

[Stevie Belmont]

Only if the gelding process is reversible.

Can some one slap me. I screwed that one up. I thought I read it somewhere. Must have been something else.

[cj]

Still think he should retire? :)

[46zilzal]

old one made a good run 2nd

[LaughAndBeMerry]

He ran very gamely. I've just seen enough of them breakdown over the years that I'm always a bit worried for them.

And re his retirement not being very lengthy, before this year all he did was run one 2F race a year at CRC, and that was after being off from 2002-2004. Hopefully he came out of this in good order.

[classhandicapper]

He ran very gamely. I've just seen enough of them breakdown over the years that I'm always a bit worried for them.

I agree.

If they keep running him he WILL break down or at least pull up.

This is not a 9 year old that has been sound all along. This is a horse that has had many long layoffs and has raced sparingly because he couldn't make it to the races. So he's obviously had lots of problems. It would not shock me if he doesn't come out of this race very well. He ran a very good race - which had to be stressful.

Look how Declan's Moon just ran. He's younger and couldn't put two races together. It's rare for a horse like this to continue doing well. The exceptions are usually very young horses that come from super patient barns.

[cj]

You guys are just speculating. There have been plenty of articles about this horse the last few years that made it pretty clear the horse was very sound. Had I not followed his story, I would have said the same things.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Great that folks are noting runners with multiple leg issues like "bumped" followed by "stumbled", with layoffs and wraps on and off. This is one who maybe should win a few 1f affairs and produce another "The Green Monkey" LOL!!
Well-known trainer Chapman trains, and owner is listed as a female named Chapman, so hopefully the connections have a personal interest in the welfare of the horse.

[Buddha]

Hell, nothing like running twice in 3 years, and now getting a 3rd start this year.

[Tom]

Some horses like to race.
We had one - Sagely - won 46 out of 101 races at FL - won his last at age 15.

Caller One could be his apprentice at the tender age of 9. :D

Maybe NYRA should start carding taces for 9 yos and up - maybe they could fill some races :rolleyes:

[LaughAndBeMerry]

Unfortunately, for every Caller One there are ten Mr. Pleasantfars (SAR 9th 8/24). This one time stakes winning 9YO is making his 4th start after a 1 year layoff, having lost once already for 12.5k this season and being life and death to win another for the same price. How long until we watch this one die on the track?

[classhandicapper]

You guys are just speculating. There have been plenty of articles about this horse the last few years that made it pretty clear the horse was very sound. Had I not followed his story, I would have said the same things.

CJ,

His PP's absolutely scream of physical problems no matter what the connections say. It's really not much of a speculation. He had multiple layoffs right after a bad performance (which almost always means the horse got hurt). Even when he was at his best his record was somewhat gappy, possibly suggesting he needed time between races because of aches and pains.

This recent one race per year nonsense also smells a little.

The DRF says he was originally retired after breaking a sesamoid. That can't be a good thing.

I have to think that he's doing well enough now to get back to the races because I can't imagine anyone being this irresponsible with a horse of this quality that was still hurting a bit (at least I pray that's the case), but nonetheless with his record at age 9 IMO he's extremely likely to get hurt if he continues to race. Almost every 9YO is probably a higher risk. IMO, racing one with a record like this is like playing with fire.

This reminds of the Mark Hopkins horse that eventually broke down despite running a few spectacular races here or there. This is like Russian Roulette even if he gets sharp for a few races.

[LaughAndBeMerry]

CH: The horse you're talking about was A Heuvo. An article at the time from the Thoroughbred Times follows. They should have revoked Hopkins' owners license for life for this. CAPS and () BELOW ARE MY EMPHASIS



Thoroughbred Times, 10/09/2005
http://thoroughbredtimes.com/search/searchdetail.asp?RecordNo=58078&Section=1

Grade 1 winner A Huevo, the storybook nine-year-old gelding whose brilliant but injury-plagued career made him one of the most resilient horses in racing, broke down and was euthanized after another comeback attempt in the $500,000 West Virginia Breeders' Classic Stakes on Saturday night at Charles Town Races.

Trust me I am not a bleeding heart, but this story kills me.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
SORRY TO EDIT YOUR POST, BUT PLEASE DO NOT REPRODUCE FULL TEXT COPYRIGHTED ARTICLES. ONE RELEVANT PARAGRAPH AND A LINK TO THE ARTICLE IS ALL THAT SHOULD BE REPRODUCED.

FOR YOUR CONVENIENCE, I HAVE INCLUDED THE LINK TO THE ARTICLE IN YOUR POST.

Thank you.

==PA

[kenwoodallpromos]

Sounds like they were trying to kill the horse from the 2nd race on. Somebody tell the bums that the purse does not increase regardless of how many lengths the horse wins by!

[Stevie Belmont]

This is all ridiculous. If a horse are working well, why not run them. There are so many horses that run all over the country that are not physically sound. They should not even be on the track. To take a couple of examples and bury certain trainers is not fair. Caller One ran 2nd. Not bad if you ask me. Dickinson is a sharp horseman. He cares a lot about his stock. You think the guy was happy that the horse went down? What about Da Hoss....maybe we should reprimand him for that as well? It's unfortunate these things happen, but they do.

Heck, I have a bigger issue with the track running that night. Track conditions were deplorable.

[cj]

CJ,

His PP's absolutely scream of physical problems no matter what the connections say.

Earlier in his career, sure they did. I don't think so much anymore. The fact these guys send him out, when they truly care about the horse, pretty much tells me the horse is sound. I also don't understand this stuff about a horse being older making it more likely to break down. That is the complete opposite of the way I see things. A horse that is still running at 8 or 9 is probably a much safer bet to make it back from a race than these weak 2 and 3yos running these days.

I am with Stevie on this one. There are plenty of cripples hitting the track every day that are in a lot worse shape than this guy is. Who are we to tell the owners he shouldn't run?

[OTM Al]

I seem to recall the owners had said they were considering continuing running him again regularly after the 2004 Rocket Man. Not sure why they didn't then, but he seem ok now and if he is happy running then I see no reason they shouldn't. As one of the handicappers in the DRF said about another older gelding coming back after a couple years away a gelding "can either race or do crossword puzzles" and I figure he would have a hard time holding a pencil. Stormy Do is 13 and still racking up wins against horses that are 9 years younger than him. Got to agree with CJ as well. Breakdowns are a lot more likely to occur in young horses who are still experiencing bone growth. If we are so worried about breakdowns then maybe we should ban 2yo racing....

[LaughAndBeMerry]

This is all ridiculous. If a horse are working well, why not run them. Dickinson is a sharp horseman. He cares a lot about his stock. You think the guy was happy that the horse went down? What about Da Hoss....maybe we should reprimand him for that as well? It's unfortunate these things happen, but they do.

Read the article again. I quote:

"We gave him two years off and we brought him back and he was lame and we gave him another year off and he was still lame. This year, after his first breeze he went lame," Dickinson recalled.


This horse was unsound for MORE THAN THREE WHOLE YEARS. You think maybe, just maybe they should have thought about leaving him retired?

[Stevie Belmont]

They thought they could bag that $500,000 purse. You would think the horse would have been in shape to run that night. How would have gotten past the vets? He must have have been in racing shape that night. Looking at his pp's, he has run well in the past in the same, or near same situation. I can see the point in why they should have not run him as well. It's a messed up thing. I truly think they thought he could win it. He broke down instead. They said it was a bad step. I saw the race that night. I thought the card should have been canceled, thats another issue.

[classhandicapper]

Earlier in his career, sure they did. I don't think so much anymore. The fact these guys send him out, when they truly care about the horse, pretty much tells me the horse is sound. I also don't understand this stuff about a horse being older making it more likely to break down. That is the complete opposite of the way I see things. A horse that is still running at 8 or 9 is probably a much safer bet to make it back from a race than these weak 2 and 3yos running these days.

I am with Stevie on this one. There are plenty of cripples hitting the track every day that are in a lot worse shape than this guy is. Who are we to tell the owners he shouldn't run?

We will have to agree to disagree. ;)

Sure there are plenty of aching horses running all the time. People abuse a lot of horses. This one is coming back from a broken bone though and he already earned his way to a risk free life. There are not economics forcing the issue (at least that I know of).

The one race a year history after that is also suggesting something. If he was doing so well after that, why not run him and earn hundreds of thousands of dollars? That long history alone tells you something about the horse's general tendency to have physical issues. This record is not one of a minor issue once in his career after which there's a long history of soundness.

Unfortunately, I don't have stats to verify this, but I'd bet anything that horses with a history of physical problems as revealed by multiple long layoffs and/or announced problems etc... have a much higher probability of getting re-injured or breaking down than those with a history of soundness. Over the years I've seen dozens of injured horses like this go down soon after they tried to come back. It wouldn't surprise me if Declans Moon is out again.

The 9YO issue in isolation doesn't mean much. If the horse is sound he's sound and vice versa. Same for any young horse. It's that in general, an older horse has a tendency to "accumulate" aches and pains etc.. much like any professional athlete. So it is more likely that one with fairly chronic problems at 3-5 isn't going to be a lot better at 9 even if he's sound enough to race.

I am not in the barn to see how the horse is doing and I realize I have no right to tell anyone whether they should run or not, but this comeback screams of high risk to me. I seriously hope I am wrong, but I expect him to be done within a few races at best (hopefully with just another minor issue).

[kenwoodallpromos]

If you were a trainer with a stable that included claimers and 2 year olds, how would you check a claiming horse's legs that prior to a race and after the last workout who did not wear front wraps? What kind of checking and how often as a regular routine for all your stable?

[Stevie Belmont]

Well I would feel the horses foot, knee and entire leg on a regular basis for any type of abnormal heat or warmth. After a morning work or gallop. Each morning and evening as well. Im not a trainer, but im aware of some of the methods used from horseman. And you can't always detect injuries this way. Also paying attention to there walk is important.

[kenwoodallpromos]

No offense, but I have the Preston Burke training book from 1953 and guess what method they used? Without using machines once in a while that is all you have. and getting a 5 year old claimer with 15 career races no one has a clue as to past racing or medical problems.
See T Times' current article on MRI's to see what can be missed!

[Stevie Belmont]

Well no doubt. I'm talking what one can do by themselves. Thats why the big operations have success, they have the loot for all the tests and machines. Like you said, stuff can be missed even with that. Were not just talking about the legas either. There are breathing problems that are prevelant in horses as well. Tests are expensive. Treatments can be expensive. No garuntee that any of it will work either.