View Full Version : Republicans to U.S. Auto mfg. "Drop Dead"
Detroit News Column: Top GOP leaders sending message to Big 3: Drop dead
Big-name Republicans are tramping around Michigan -- Karl Rove is expected at a fundraiser today in Grosse Pointe, Republican National Committee chairman Ken Mehlman is campaigning for Senate hopeful Mike Bouchard and President Bush is rumored to be planning a campaign swing next month. But meet with Detroit's automakers? Nah, why should the president care whether U.S.-owned automakers, burdened by fierce foreign competition and cumulative decisions that threaten to swamp them, are fighting for their collective lives? Instead, key Republicans and the White House are reprising President Ford's message to New York back in the mid-'70s: "Drop dead." Such cynicism toward a bedrock industry -- let the Blue-Staters wither -- would be comical if it wasn't so misguided, even dumb…. In any other major auto-producing nation, politicians don't ignore the concerns of their auto industry. Not in France and Germany, where nationalism infuses economic policy. And not in Japan or South Korea, where manipulating currencies and erecting trade barriers is acceptable to help the home team -- and Detroit isn't asking for either one. Here? The president won't meet with the bosses of General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and the Chrysler Group. But he'll sit astride a Harley, visit a Nissan truck plant, herald the Toyota engine that won the Indy 500, campaign for Republicans and then have his press secretary swear there's no snub of Detroit.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060823/AUTO02/608230382/1322/OPINION03
In the past 5 years GM has invested 900 million dollars in Flint Michigan, upgrading plants. One of the results of this investment is: They now build the same number of engines with 600 employees that used to take 3400 employees. This comment in response to a previous statement about GM not investing in the U.S.
So let's see,
Used to use 3400 people
Now use 600 people
__________________________
Where are 2800 people now?
Lefty
08-23-2006, 11:38 AM
lbj, first you libs' hate corporations and now you want the Repubs to step in? You guys are great at sending mixed messages. The Car makers didn't heed the msg and they let the unions price them outta the mkt. Detroit will make a comeback when they get competitive again.
Tom,
Most likely they are looking for work.
Lefty,
Please read the quote/article. I did not say anything about govt. helping auto mfgs. Honda is a union company.
sq764
08-23-2006, 11:48 AM
I would fire off a nice letter to this individual. She has done a bang up job in her state, particularly the auto industry...
http://www.michigan.gov/gov
(And to think she was actually a Dem hope to be president material, but not eligible as she was born in Canada)
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060823/AUTO02/608230382/1322/OPINION03
In the past 5 years GM has invested 900 million dollars in Flint Michigan, upgrading plants. One of the results of this investment is: They now build the same number of engines with 600 employees that used to take 3400 employees. This comment in response to a previous statement about GM not investing in the U.S.
Lefty
08-23-2006, 11:50 AM
lbj, once again, what's the friggin use of quoting the article if you don't agree or want the govt to help? You quoted: "The repubs tell detroit to drop dead."
Is that your quote lbj or the articles? This reminds me of the time you disagreed with me about min wage increases and at the end you agreed with me. So what's your point this time?
Why bother if you disagree? Like most libs you talk out of both sides of your mouth, or in this case, your computer. Where do you stand lbj, and to hell with the article? Do you think the govt should help Det or not? Huh, huh, huh...
Lefty
08-23-2006, 12:23 PM
lbj, read the article and the writer is whining the repubs won't help. So, what's YOUR point? What do YOU think?
lsbets
08-23-2006, 12:29 PM
Speaking as someone who drives a three year old Chevy and just had the compressor die on the AC unit (while its over 100 degrees everyday), I have no problem telling GM to drop dead. I've never had any major problems with any foreign car I've owned. American cars - all have had problems. Live and learn, my next truck is a Toyota.
JustRalph
08-23-2006, 12:42 PM
You think it might have anything to do with the "Unions" I swear LJB you think you can just post something and nobody will look beyond your babble.
46zilzal
08-23-2006, 12:46 PM
American cars - all have had problems. Live and learn, my next truck is a Toyota.
you cannot kill a Toyota no matter how hard you try. Had two of them: reliable in the snow and the heat.
lsbets
08-23-2006, 12:52 PM
you cannot kill a Toyota no matter how hard you try. Had two of them: reliable in the snow and the heat.
My Dad had a Camry that he drove for about 10 years and 150K miles, never had a problem. THe only reason he sold it was he wanted something new. Everyone I know who has had a Toyota swears by their reliability.
lbj, once again, what's the friggin use of quoting the article if you don't agree or want the govt to help? You quoted: "The repubs tell detroit to drop dead."
Is that your quote lbj or the articles? This reminds me of the time you disagreed with me about min wage increases and at the end you agreed with me. So what's your point this time?
Why bother if you disagree? Like most libs you talk out of both sides of your mouth, or in this case, your computer. Where do you stand lbj, and to hell with the article? Do you think the govt should help Det or not? Huh, huh, huh...
Oh Lefty, what am I to do with you ? Why all the anger and cussing ? I posted an article detailing how the Repubs are shunning the big 3 automakers in America. The article points out some of the inbalances in "free trade". The ceo's of the big 3 have requested an audience with President Bush more then once. He has not found the time to provide them with a discussion. And yes I think our government should see to it that we have fair trade policies with our trading partners overseas. Now pop a couple of Valium and relax.
And I did not agree with you, you agreed with me.
You think it might have anything to do with the "Unions" I swear LJB you think you can just post something and nobody will look beyond your babble.
JR,
Lefty brought up the Union word. I just replied that japanese automakers are also union shops. And by the way where was management while the unions were bankrupting these companies ? And why the personal attack ? Trying to impersonate Rove ? If so, babble on Jr, babble on.
I would fire off a nice letter to this individual. She has done a bang up job in her state, particularly the auto industry...
http://www.michigan.gov/gov
(And to think she was actually a Dem hope to be president material, but not eligible as she was born in Canada)
Govenor Granholm has done a good job. She of course has to deal with the mess left by Republican Engler and the Republican Senate/House and the Republican courts and the Republican secretary of state. When she took office she faced a 4 million dollar deficit created by the borrow and spend Republicans under Englers guidance. She eliminated tons of waste in state spending and got the deficit erased. She also brought back a business Engler had outsourced to India. (A phone service of some sort) But in spite of all this negative support she has forged on. More power to her. She was mentioned as a possible Presidential candidate in response to the Ahnold's ploy in CA.
sq764
08-23-2006, 03:18 PM
Govenor Granholm has done a good job. She of course has to deal with the mess left by Republican Engler and the Republican Senate/House and the Republican courts and the Republican secretary of state. When she took office she faced a 4 million dollar deficit created by the borrow and spend Republicans under Englers guidance. She eliminated tons of waste in state spending and got the deficit erased. She also brought back a business Engler had outsourced to India. (A phone service of some sort) But in spite of all this negative support she has forged on. More power to her. She was mentioned as a possible Presidential candidate in response to the Ahnold's ploy in CA.
Yeah, fantastic job being in Japan trying to coax Honda to bring a plant to michiagan, but then said she was too booked to meet with them. I guess the Indiana Governor MADE time for meeting with Honda
Hmm, cannot bring in work from Japan AND cannot stop from Michigan jobs going out to China.. She's got one foot in the grave..
It's bad when only 3 states have actually lost jobs in the past 4 years and 2 of them (Mississippi and Louisiana) had hurricanes.. Guess who the third one was..
Secretariat
08-23-2006, 03:30 PM
Everyone I know who has had a Toyota swears by their reliability.
Finally, something we agree on. Knew we'd get there eventually.
Jeff P
08-23-2006, 03:52 PM
Detroit made their own problems. I might have a unique perspective on that because I got to see some of it unfold first hand.
After college I took an accounting job working for a company that owned several auto dealerships. I guess the president of the company I worked for was kind of impressed by a certain young go-getter and his work ethic and positive attitude because after a few months he offered me a (then) nice paying management position. One of the daily tasks accounting managers do for that company is open and sort incoming mail. Checks go in one pile, bills in another, real letters to corporate officers in another, and junk mail in the round file. The policy was (and probably still is to this day) open and read everything. If it's a check - intercept it. Everything else decide what you are looking at and make sure it gets to the right place.
At that time both Ford and GM were actively campaigning then president Reagan to impose some pretty stiff tariffs on cars made in Japan and imported to the U.S. Both Ford and GM had established formal program names (I can't recall the actual names it's been too long) for versions of their respective campaigns. I know this because I read the stuff they kept sending us. As an owner of both Ford and a GM dealerships we were required by both factories to appoint somebody within our company with the title of Program Director to administer Detroit's ideas for campaigning to get tariffs imposed.
That somebody ended up being me. I should explain that conducting the campaign wasn't at our company's expense. As compensation for following their program they sent us sheets of bank drafts (blank checks in layman's terms) that we could use to reimburse ourselves (and then some) for our efforts. No, we couldn't just fill out the drafts for ridiculous amounts and run them to the bank. Each completed step of their campaign program was worth X amt of dollars to our company. And of course the program director (me) had to document everything with the understanding that everything was subject to audit (and chargeback) by them.
What Ford and GM were really saying was this:
Write your senators and congressmen. Here are their itineraries. Go to their fund raisers. Meet them and greet them. Wine and dine them. Tell them your (our) position on protecting the American way of life through import tariffs. Do this for us and we'll pay you for it.
Our company participated in this program. Why not? It was worth several thousand dollars to us. Multiply that times the number of dealerships across the U.S. that also participated and I'm guessing Ford and GM had budgeted millions for this that year, which BTW was 1984.
As a young kid right out of college I remember thinking "What a waste? Why spend millions on this crap?" Why couldn't they see what they really needed to do - which IMHO has always been remarkably simple: Give people what they want: Reliable fuel efficient cars at an affordable price. In other words step up to the plate and COMPETE.
I remember the owner of our company (he's gone now) telling me he liked my idealism but that the big three would never change thier ways. They'd had it so good for so long that they would run their companies into the ground before they'd ever cave to the wants of the American consumer. I also remember asking him if Americans stop buying American cars how do you see our company surviving? I'll never forget his answer. He said "That's easy. I'll buy more dealerships. Honda and Nissan and Toyota dealerships. People are never going to stop buying cars."
That was 20+ years ago. Looking back I'm not all that surprised to see just how right this guy turned out to be.
-jp
.
Secretariat
08-23-2006, 04:11 PM
Detroit made their own problems. I might have a unique perspective on that because I got to see some of it unfold first hand.
...
As a young kid right out of college I remember thinking "What a waste? Why spend millions on this crap?" Why couldn't they see the real answer - which IMHO has always been remarkably simple: Give people what they want: Reliable fuel efficient cars at an affordable price. In other words step up to the plate and COMPETE.
I remember the owner of our company (he's gone now) telling me he liked my idealism but that the big three would never change thier ways. They'd had had it so good for so long that they would run their companies into the ground before they'd ever cave to the wants of the American consumer. I also remember asking him if Americans stop buying American cars how do you see our company surviving? I'll never forget his answer. He said "That's easy. I'll buy more dealerships. Honda and Nissan and Toyota dealerships. People are never going to stop buying cars."
That was 20+ years ago. Looking back I'm not all that surprised to see just how right this guy turned out to be.
-jp
.
JP,
That was a terrific post. Whereas some here want to blame the workers and the union, that is not what was creating the problem. it was lack of foresight on the part of the big three to do exactly what you said:
"Give people what they want: Reliable fuel efficient cars at an affordable price."
The problem is (A) the cars aren't fuel efficient. Anyone after the problems of the 70's (and especially after 911) did not strongly convert to fuel efficient manufacturing was just being naive. People may like larger cars, but they also like being able to put food on the table. When gas prices threaten to intrude on that, they seek alternatives. The problem is in large part Detroit's mistake in lack of design, lack of planning, and lack of understanding that to compete, your product has to be top quality. If the designs are poor fuel efficient vehicles, and the materials are sub-standard, and the QA is haphazard you get a "non-reliable" vehicle. (B) Consumer Reports has been grading cars for years, and American cars have been getting poor ratings for decades when compared to someone like Toyota. Now, wouldn't management get the idea, that they've got to rework designs to be competitive. (C) MPG regulations. Our government let the Big Three do what they want, and did not impose stronger MPG regulations. While this was irresponsible on the part of the government environmentally, and in terms of gas prices for the consumer, it created a false advantage to Detroit thinking they could make cars for less with less in the way of fuel restrictions. They got their initial advantage in costs, but as you say non-reliable fuel efficient vehicles and there are an awful lot of those cars sitting on lots, and unless gas goes down significantly, they'll sit there. (D) Unions. This is always the GOP cry that paying higher wages is the bane of the car industry. Jobs have been curtailed, Japan has unions, and while it adds to the cost of the car, Detoits' cars are considerably cheaper than Toyota's and Hondas. The price is cheaper for an average American car than an import, yet consumers are willing to pay more for higher quality.
The problem is the designs, and strategies implemented by the Big Three lack any kind of forward thinking. We baled Chrysler once. If they didn't get the message that is unfortunate. I agree they will have to take thier lumps on this. The pity is that so many workers will bear the brunt of atrociious management.
lsbets
08-23-2006, 04:15 PM
Finally, something we agree on. Knew we'd get there eventually.
I'll have to reconsider my position - maybe a Kia will be in my future instead. :lol: :lol: :lol:
kenwoodallpromos
08-23-2006, 04:26 PM
You mean THIS Ford Company?
"Friday, August 04, 2006
Ford cruise control recall widens
WASHINGTON -- Ford Motor Co., expanding one of the largest safety recalls in automotive history, said Thursday it would recall an additional 1.2 million vehicles nationwide that are prone to engine fires.
The Dearborn automaker has recalled 6.7 million vehicles worldwide since January 2005 that are equipped with a Texas Instruments speed control deactivation switch that has been linked to dozens of engine fires and has sparked numerous lawsuits."
__
Sorry, I forgot- it is Bush's fault. He does not like lawsuits!LOL!!
I thought Saturn was made in a red state?
Yeah, fantastic job being in Japan trying to coax Honda to bring a plant to michiagan, but then said she was too booked to meet with them. I guess the Indiana Governor MADE time for meeting with Honda
Hmm, cannot bring in work from Japan AND cannot stop from Michigan jobs going out to China.. She's got one foot in the grave..
It's bad when only 3 states have actually lost jobs in the past 4 years and 2 of them (Mississippi and Louisiana) had hurricanes.. Guess who the third one was..
You must be watching the lies being broadcast in favor of that other born rich republican. Rich (move 1400 jobs to China) Devos. The loss of jobs in Michigan is a result of the downturn in sales of domestically produced autos. If you were around during Bush seniors administration, you will recall a similiar case. As Lefty would say Hmmm ?
Granholm did in fact meet with Japanese officials in an attempt to get the Honda plant in Michigan.
But even more important she was instrumental in getting 1000's of new technology jobs (Google) in Ann Arbor Michigan. Devos has already had to recant on a couple of his false claims, one from the Lansing Journal and the other from one of Detroits papers. He will soon be recanting from the lies he is using in his latest ad. 17 million of inherited wealth he has spent so far and still not admitted he is a Republican wow !
What's her excuse for Michigan Avenue in Dearborn? :lol:
Unions. This is always the GOP cry that paying higher wages is the bane of the car industry. Jobs have been curtailed, Japan has unions, and while it adds to the cost of the car, Detoits' cars are considerably cheaper than Toyota's and Hondas.
The pity is that so many workers will bear the brunt of atrociious management.
Sec, I have parsed your lengthy post. I basically agree with what both you and the other dude said. I just left those two paragraphs in for emphasis of a point.
I recall within the past year reading a quote from a GM excutive when asked about gas prices and Hummer vehicles. His reply was something like. "People that buy Hummers don't worry about gas prices." He probably got a multimillion dollar bonus this year.
What's her excuse for Michigan Avenue in Dearborn? :lol:
Not sure if we can blame Michigan Avenue in Dearborn on Granholm, this is her first term as Governor of a Republican controlled state. Perhaps you could forward that question to Engler and the rest of the Republicans that have been in control for the past 10-12 years. :bang:
You mean THIS Ford Company?
"Friday, August 04, 2006
Ford cruise control recall widens
WASHINGTON -- Ford Motor Co., expanding one of the largest safety recalls in automotive history, said Thursday it would recall an additional 1.2 million vehicles nationwide that are prone to engine fires.
The Dearborn automaker has recalled 6.7 million vehicles worldwide since January 2005 that are equipped with a Texas Instruments speed control deactivation switch that has been linked to dozens of engine fires and has sparked numerous lawsuits."
__
Sorry, I forgot- it is Bush's fault. He does not like lawsuits!LOL!!
I thought Saturn was made in a red state?
Texas Instruments speed control deactivation switch. Yep Bush had a hand in it. :lol:
Check this out:
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=1970582&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312
Sounds more like investing in America than automating workers onto the
streets.
Why should the governement get involved in an industry that apparently needs no help? Some companies are doing very well - others, those run by morons, are failing. That is free enterprise. If Ford and GM connot compete, they should go out oif business and make room for those than can do it right.
I know what GM could do positive - start cleaning up that trail of dead neighborhoods it left behind in it's crawl north and west out of the city, like a slime trail from a snail.
sq764
08-23-2006, 06:17 PM
Not sure if we can blame Michigan Avenue in Dearborn on Granholm, this is her first term as Governor of a Republican controlled state. Perhaps you could forward that question to Engler and the rest of the Republicans that have been in control for the past 10-12 years. :bang:
come on tom, did u actually think they would admit anything negative and not just blame the republicans?
sheesh
come on tom, did u actually think they would admit anything negative and not just blame the republicans?
sheesh
Does this mean anything ?
Tom,
As you will see in this thread I agree GM has been poorly managed for years. I just thought the Repubs might show a little concern for all the working class people being put out of work because of poor management decisions and a lack of fair trade. Silly me.
Tom,
As you will see in this thread I agree GM has been poorly managed for years. I just thought the Repubs might show a little concern for all the working class people being put out of work because of poor management decisions and a lack of fair trade. Silly me.
So you are now advocating governement take over business operations?
OK, sounds good - first thing - outlaw unions.
Mission accomplished!
Lefty
08-23-2006, 07:17 PM
Tom,
As you will see in this thread I agree GM has been poorly managed for years. I just thought the Repubs might show a little concern for all the working class people being put out of work because of poor management decisions and a lack of fair trade. Silly me.
lbj, I accused you of wanting govt involvement in these corps in my first response to you, and you said something like "where did I say that?" Now you are advocating it again. You flipflop so friggin much you should change your nick to Kerry. Anger, it takes several replies to you to get a halfway strght answer. You'll prob end up agreeing with me again. Hillary and Kerry could take lessons from you in "obtuse"
So you are now advocating governement take over business operations?
OK, sounds good - first thing - outlaw unions.
Mission accomplished!
Tommy, Tommy, Tommy,
I did not say i advocated government take over business operations. and for the rest of your note all I can say is:
You are going down hill fast.
Lefty
08-23-2006, 07:44 PM
Tommy, Tommy, Tommy,
I did not say i advocated government take over business operations. and for the rest of your note all I can say is:
You are going down hill fast.
And all I can say is, you are incapable of giving a straight answer.
lbj, I accused you of wanting govt involvement in these corps in my first response to you, and you said something like "where did I say that?" Now you are advocating it again. You flipflop so friggin much you should change your nick to Kerry. Anger, it takes several replies to you to get a halfway strght answer. You'll prob end up agreeing with me again. Hillary and Kerry could take lessons from you in "obtuse"
Lefty,
You didn't take that valium did you ? I am not advocating gov't involvment in these corps. You have to stop spinning my words to what you think. Just try reading the words one at a time and try to understand them. If you need more help write back I may have the time to explain each word to you if need be. Also, I did not agree with you, you agreed with me.
Lefty
08-23-2006, 08:29 PM
lbj, if you're not asvocating govt involvement then what's the purpose of posting the article? Do you even know? Looks like if you're not advocating govt involvement, you're agreeing with me again. Hmmmm?
lbj, if you're not asvocating govt involvement then what's the purpose of posting the article? Do you even know? Looks like if you're not advocating govt involvement, you're agreeing with me again. Hmmmm?
Lefty,
Wait a minute maybe you took too many valium. Your starting to sound confused. I posted the quote and link to display the Republicans total disregard for some American business's woes. Irregardless of the cause, the Repubs turn there heads away from serious problems in this country so they can focus on gay marriage and such. :lol:
Get Real Lefty, you are slipping fast.
DJofSD
08-23-2006, 08:49 PM
I drove a Toyota truck, new in 1984 until I bought a new Ford in 1998. Put nearly 280,000 miles on it and did not have one major problem with it, just the usual regular maintenance items like a thermastat for the cooling system. No complaints about the tough little 22R engine.
My new Explorer has turned out to be a huge disapointment. The list is long.
I will not ever buy a Ford again. Period.
I perceive Ford to be in a downward spiral and I suspect they might not pull out of it. As far as I'm concered, I'd vote to let the company die. And I really don't care if it was a lack of vision my upper management, the greed of the rank-and-file union workers or too much goverment meddling, Ford's a three legged horse -- put it out of it's misery.
Ljb,
The article and data you postes clearly point out that a comapny - GM, invested in itself, cut a lot of jobs and improved their profits at the expense of American families. And yet you are upset because the US Gov't will not step in to help out these evil rich people?
Clearly, in the auto industry, some companies can make the grade, while building plants here and creating jobs for Amercians. Yet you support the gov't getting thier way to protect the rich company?
Wow, when did you become a republican?
Lefty
08-23-2006, 11:18 PM
lbj, you're trying to have it both ways, and that doesn't wash. Look at your contrasiction. You posted the article to show republicans total disregard, yet you don't want them to step in and help. So you're also showing total disregard. And you accuse me of taking something? BTW, there's no such word as irregardless.
Hosshead
08-24-2006, 12:39 AM
Speaking as someone who drives a three year old Chevy and just had the compressor die on the AC unit (while its over 100 degrees everyday), I have no problem telling GM to drop dead. I've never had any major problems with any foreign car I've owned. American cars - all have had problems. Live and learn, my next truck is a Toyota.
Amen
American cars are made to breakdown.
Dealers make a lot of money fixing them.
In fact the American Auto. Companys are fighting like hell to get laws passed to make it impossible for independant mechanics to have the computer codes to diagnose and fix the newer cars.
Therefore you would have to take it to a dealer to get it fixed.
I went to a Toyota dealer the other day and the salesman showed me the sticker on the window of a new car.
Each sticker has a long ID # for that car.
He pointed out that the first letter in that #, is the indicator of where it was built. Pointing to the first letter J, he said this car was built in Japan.
He then said that Toyota is now building more cars in the U.S.
BUT:
"New buyers are coming in and many will only buy the ones that have a "J", even though the same model is also built here."
Secretariat
08-24-2006, 01:09 AM
So you are now advocating governement take over business operations?
OK, sounds good - first thing - outlaw unions.
Mission accomplished!
Tom, the govt. has already taken over or contributed to the longevity of many businesses. Halliburton, Lockheed, Raytheon, Bechtel, and of course who can forget the huge corporate welfare breaks for Exxon-Mobil.
As to outlawing unions, I realize you'd rather eliminate the 40 hour work week, minimum wage, safe working conditions, collective bargaining, and the lot, but here's the bottom line Tom. American cars are cheaper than foregin imports (even with unions), and yet they are still not beign bought. Now obviously, the unions don't design the cars or buy the materials. Workers assemble the parts (or robotics).
You state "outlaw unions" and "Mission Accomplished!". Sounds unfortuantely like another Mission Accomplished a few years back on an aircraft carrier.
The issue is not unions, it's about good designs, top management, QA, and making cars that are fuel efficient and top quality with superb materials and good workmanship so that the product lasts.
Lefty
08-24-2006, 01:25 AM
sec, so what do yuh want the govt to do for Detroit, design their cars for them?
lbj, you're trying to have it both ways, and that doesn't wash. Look at your contrasiction. You posted the article to show republicans total disregard, yet you don't want them to step in and help. So you're also showing total disregard. And you accuse me of taking something? BTW, there's no such word as irregardless.
Lefty, Yes, I posted the article to show Republicans total disregard.
By the way there's no such word as contrasiction.
Ljb,
The article and data you postes clearly point out that a comapny - GM, invested in itself, cut a lot of jobs and improved their profits at the expense of American families. And yet you are upset because the US Gov't will not step in to help out these evil rich people?
Clearly, in the auto industry, some companies can make the grade, while building plants here and creating jobs for Amercians. Yet you support the gov't getting thier way to protect the rich company?
Wow, when did you become a republican?
Tom, nice spin job. Is there a problem with a company investing in itself? The article just points out the Republicans total disregard for American auto mfgs. concerns regarding fair trade.
PlanB
08-24-2006, 08:28 AM
In May I bought a 2006 Milan (Ford/Mercury). It's great. Good Mileage.
6 Cylinder, nice zip. It's the Mazda motor so its got a good track record.
The Toyotas have no style, imo.
Tom, nice spin job. Is there a problem with a company investing in itself? The article just points out the Republicans total disregard for American auto mfgs. concerns regarding fair trade.
ljb, I went back and read the article again. I didn't see anywhere that the auto makers have asked for help with fair trade issues. I didn't see where the auto makers invited the president to meet with them. Talk about a spin job.
ljb, I went back and read the article again. I didn't see anywhere that the auto makers have asked for help with fair trade issues. I didn't see where the auto makers invited the president to meet with them. Talk about a spin job.
Snag,
Here is a snippet from my first post.
"Not in France and Germany, where nationalism infuses economic policy. And not in Japan or South Korea, where manipulating currencies and erecting trade barriers is acceptable to help the home team
The president won't meet with the bosses of General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and the Chrysler Group."
The first paragraph indicates unfair trade policys. The second paragraph indicates a request from the automakers for an audience with the President concerning this problem. This request is common knowledge in Michigan. I could google it to find more documentation if needed but, I hope this will suffice.
DJofSD
08-24-2006, 09:59 AM
This request is common knowledge in Michigan.
Well, it's not common knowledge here in CA.
Snag,
Here is a snippet from my first post.
"Not in France and Germany, where nationalism infuses economic policy. And not in Japan or South Korea, where manipulating currencies and erecting trade barriers is acceptable to help the home team
The president won't meet with the bosses of General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and the Chrysler Group."
The first paragraph indicates unfair trade policys. The second paragraph indicates a request from the automakers for an audience with the President concerning this problem. This request is common knowledge in Michigan. I could google it to find more documentation if needed but, I hope this will suffice.
ljb, you are correct. Unfair trade policys are practiced by France, Germany, Japan, and South Korea. You are not for an unfair trade policy are you?
The author of the article states that the President won't meet with the bosses. How do you know that for a fact? "indicates a request" is just spin words. Show me the google where there has been an invite extended to the President and he rejected the invite and I might agree with you.
Until then, it's just spin.
Lefty
08-24-2006, 11:31 AM
lbj, congrats. You have managed to "Hillary" yourself. You posted an article, agreed with it and disagreed with it.
Clearly my word was a typo an s instead of d but you used a non-word: "irregardless." Not even close to the same, but it's your style, son.
Secretariat
08-24-2006, 01:22 PM
sec, so what do yuh want the govt to do for Detroit, design their cars for them?
Without question Lefty, Detroit screwed up big time, and I am not in favor of bailing them out. However, stronger MPG standards would have helped act as a catalyst towards mroe responsible designs. As ti is now, we've lost or are losing one of our benchmark industries to foregin competition. Not good for America long term.
ljb, you are correct. Unfair trade policys are practiced by France, Germany, Japan, and South Korea. You are not for an unfair trade policy are you?
The author of the article states that the President won't meet with the bosses. How do you know that for a fact? "indicates a request" is just spin words. Show me the google where there has been an invite extended to the President and he rejected the invite and I might agree with you.
Until then, it's just spin.
Snag,
Why do you try to obfuscate ?
Here is 1 link.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060622/AUTO01/606220384/1148
lbj, congrats. You have managed to "Hillary" yourself. You posted an article, agreed with it and disagreed with it.
Clearly my word was a typo an s instead of d but you used a non-word: "irregardless." Not even close to the same, but it's your style, son.
Lefty,
You took a double dose again today didn't you? I posted an article, never agreed or disagreed with it. I may have disagreed with some of the blather you have been replying with but not the article. Please try to read and understand what you are reading before replying.
Thank you
"I was for the article beforel I was against it."
This is a new startegy - Ljb has posted two article recentl that he switches positions on as the debate goes on. In neither case does he agree with the article HE posted. Nor even care about the topic.
Just trying to fill that extra bandwith, I guess.
Snag,
Why do you try to obfuscate ?
Here is 1 link.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060622/AUTO01/606220384/1148
ljb, you continue to use words in one context and then hope they apply to another. Your link says the meetings were "postponed". It does not say he won't meet with the big three bosses. There is a difference.
By the way, the link also says the automakers were waiting for the summit (interesting - it has changed from a summit to a meeting), to then announce their commitment to producing more flexible fuel vehicles. They should be doing that any way, don't you think? Maybe that's why they are having the problems they are having.
Thanks for the follow up.
"I was for the article beforel I was against it."
This is a new startegy - Ljb has posted two article recentl that he switches positions on as the debate goes on. In neither case does he agree with the article HE posted. Nor even care about the topic.
Just trying to fill that extra bandwith, I guess.
Tom,
this article talks about Republicans refusing to talk to American auto makers regarding their current problems. How can you be against or for the article ? Now you are starting to sound like Lefty again. Come on Tom, we all expect more from you.
JustRalph
08-24-2006, 05:17 PM
Tom,
this article talks about Republicans refusing to talk to American auto makers regarding their current problems. How can you be against or for the article ? Now you are starting to sound like Lefty again. Come on Tom, we all expect more from you.
Tom probably is more qualified to talk about the U.S. Auto industry than most.........
Tom,
this article talks about Republicans refusing to talk to American auto makers regarding their current problems. How can you be against or for the article ? Now you are starting to sound like Lefty again. Come on Tom, we all expect more from you.
You expect it, and you will get it.
My aim is to please.
I was mythically quoting YOU.
Be careful what you wish for! :bang:
Tom probably is more qualified to talk about the U.S. Auto industry than most.........
It's a jungle out there! :eek:
Lefty
08-24-2006, 07:12 PM
lbj, now that you have completely "Hillaried" yourself would you prefer to be called Miss, Mrs or MS?
Lefty
08-24-2006, 07:13 PM
sec, it should not be up to the govt to tell Detroit they need to increase their MPG. If they can't figure it out on their own then the competition will eat em up.
Secretariat
08-24-2006, 08:21 PM
sec, it should not be up to the govt to tell Detroit they need to increase their MPG. If they can't figure it out on their own then the competition will eat em up.
You make a good point Lefty. It should not be up to the government to tell Detroit to increase MPG, and since they didn't install higher MPG rates they are no longer competitive, and America loses more and more of its manufacturing sector to corporations abroad. So in terms of ideology you're correct. In terms of Amercia maintaining a viable manufacturing sector, we seem to lose again. And you're right. The competition is eating them up.
THe MPG ratio is not only for Detroit's benefit, but for all Americans. And that's one reason why Americans are buying foreign cars.
It goes to the heart of what you beleive government should get invoved with and what it shoudn't. Obviously, corporate welfare for Exxon-Mobil is deemed appropriate by this administration, but corporate welfare to Detroit is not.
So Sec, the system works.
Detorit fails to provide cars with good mpg - comptition eats them up.
Competition is building plants here - creating jobs.
Win win situation.
We get the car we want, we get companies that provde jobs.
What is wrong with that????
Lefty
08-25-2006, 11:22 AM
sec, what does exxon-mobil get from the govt that detroit does not? They both get tax breaks, right?
sq764
08-25-2006, 11:32 AM
Will be very interesting to see what happens if Ford does choose to go private. Could change the whole industry
FORD execs say going private would be better for them - not having people asking questions, looking for updates on progess, looking over thier shoulders.
Imagine the gall those OWNERS have, eh?
But, as FORD continues to lay off people and close palnts, sell equipment, I sincerley hope they find that GD machine that cost them so much money! And that janitor who made all those stupid decisions!
:lol:
Secretariat
08-25-2006, 01:25 PM
sec, what does exxon-mobil get from the govt that detroit does not? They both get tax breaks, right?
Not quite Lefty.
H.R. 6, Vote #445, 7/28/05
This vote gave over 14 billion specifically to oil and gas companies.
Check it out yourself.
The topic is Republicans to U.S. Auto mfg. "Drop Dead".
You guys have talked about who makes the best cars, attacked me, questioned everything I post (do you have link to prove that?) discussed Japans building plants vs. Gm's tearing plants down, government control of U.S. auto mfg. and mpg for various autos.
It just amazes me, the lengths you guys will go to to avoid facing the truth. :lol: :lol: :lol:
PlanB
08-25-2006, 06:27 PM
LJB, what do you think about SUVs & GM's lack of concern for (a) gas mileage
standards; (b) the Environment. What I can't understand is why didn't ANY
(mostly) US auto maker step up to the plate? It's like "how many times do
I overlook my kid's bad behavior & just take him under my wings, --- AGAIN."
I want USA companies to succeed, but how far do we go when a business
model is out of wack with success? Buying a car is a BIG number for most
of us so why didn't GM et al remember that?
PlanB
08-25-2006, 07:58 PM
in re-reading this thread entirely I see LJB's point of view. Maybe we UNDER
RATE our USA autos. Toyota, ok its Very Good, but what about the idea
that anything Japanese is superior here, maybe we don't appreciate and
support the USA here. I see LJB's point.
The topic is Republicans to U.S. Auto mfg. "Drop Dead".
You guys have talked about who makes the best cars, attacked me, questioned everything I post (do you have link to prove that?) discussed Japans building plants vs. Gm's tearing plants down, government control of U.S. auto mfg. and mpg for various autos.
It just amazes me, the lengths you guys will go to to avoid facing the truth. :lol: :lol: :lol:
No, I think it YOU who missed the point.
My points have been...YES. DROP DEAD. The US auto companies deserve no help. They are failures. Losers. Get out of the way. Let the gov'nt help new blood. You just refuse to acknowledge all the facts that make us think that way. RIF.....look for a course near you. ( tip o' the hat to CJ for that one!)
Lefty
08-25-2006, 11:08 PM
The topic is Republicans to U.S. Auto mfg. "Drop Dead".
You guys have talked about who makes the best cars, attacked me, questioned everything I post (do you have link to prove that?) discussed Japans building plants vs. Gm's tearing plants down, government control of U.S. auto mfg. and mpg for various autos.
It just amazes me, the lengths you guys will go to to avoid facing the truth. :lol: :lol: :lol:
lbj, first you post an article saying Repubs ignore automakers in deeetroit, they you say no, you don't want the govt to help and now you say we attacked you when all the hell we're trying to get out of you is where you stand. I think you just wanta make trble but don't have the guts to take a stand. So, inform and enlighten us. What is the truth according lbj?
Lefty
08-25-2006, 11:10 PM
planb, if you know what lbj is trying to say then you understand his brand of b.s. better than I.
lbj, first you post an article saying Repubs ignore automakers in deeetroit, they you say no, you don't want the govt to help and now you say we attacked you when all the hell we're trying to get out of you is where you stand. I think you just wanta make trble but don't have the guts to take a stand. So, inform and enlighten us. What is the truth according lbj?
He is spinning so much lately, he is just dizzy.
He has no idea what he posts, then what we reply, he takes the other side, just for giggles. I think he forgot to pay his cable TV bill and has nothing to do at night.
lbj, first you post an article saying Repubs ignore automakers in deeetroit, they you say no, you don't want the govt to help and now you say we attacked you when all the hell we're trying to get out of you is where you stand. I think you just wanta make trble but don't have the guts to take a stand. So, inform and enlighten us. What is the truth according lbj?
The truth is Lefty and little lefty can't stand the heat and resort to personal attacks.
OK, Ljb - calling you on this one - in what specific post number did I personally attack you?
"I was for the article beforel I was against it."
This is a new startegy - Ljb has posted two article recentl that he switches positions on as the debate goes on. In neither case does he agree with the article HE posted. Nor even care about the topic.
Just trying to fill that extra bandwith, I guess.
Tom,
Here is one.
He is spinning so much lately, he is just dizzy.
He has no idea what he posts, then what we reply, he takes the other side, just for giggles. I think he forgot to pay his cable TV bill and has nothing to do at night.
Tom,
Here is another.
Those are not personal attacks.
You ned to get out more.
You want I should give you a REAL personal attack?:kiss:
Lefty
08-26-2006, 12:45 AM
The truth is Lefty and little lefty can't stand the heat and resort to personal attacks.
No personal attack. Just asking you to put up or shut up.
Those are not personal attacks.
You ned to get out more.
You want I should give you a REAL personal attack?:kiss:
Tom,
The last time you went on the offensive with force, I responded in kind. This led to your putting me on your ignore list. And this led to your becoming even more ignorant. :kiss:
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