View Full Version : Unbeleivable House Bill
Secretariat
07-29-2006, 10:54 PM
SMTW posted a topic about an unbelievable Senate bill. This is one that takes the cake.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060729/ap_on_go_co/minimum_wage
This is outrageous. One of the most disgusting of manipulations I've seen yet by the House. These greedy bastards can't help the poorest without dipping into the pot to help themselves.
"House approves minimum wage increase
By ANDREW TAYLOR, Associated Press Writer Sat Jul 29, 8:35 AM ET
WASHINGTON - Republicans muscled the first minimum wage increase in a decade through the House early Saturday after pairing it with a cut in inheritance taxes on multimillion-dollar estates.
Combining the two issues provoked protests from Democrats and was sure to cause problems in the Senate, where the minimum wage initiative was likely to die at the hands of Democrats opposed to the costly estate tax cuts. The Senate is expected to take up the legislation next week.
Still, GOP leaders saw combining the wage and tax issues as their best chance for getting permanent cuts to the estate tax, a top GOP priority fueled by intense lobbying by farmers, small business owners and super-wealthy families such as the Waltons, heirs to the Wal-Mart fortune.
This is the best shot we've got; we're going to take it," said House Majority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio. The unusual packaging also soothed conservatives angry about raising the minimum wage over opposition by GOP business allies."
kenwoodallpromos
07-30-2006, 12:29 AM
Sounds like politics to me- Demos could not get a wage increase, and Repubs could not get the estate tax repeal, so they compromised.
So are you saying you are against the Demos and Rebubs compromising to get passed the wage bill? It's about time the Demos stopped ranting and raving and learned how to use politicing to get something passed that will help more than 7,500 of their voters!
I knew the Repubs would stop the wage raise if at all possible, and it affected me and many peole I know. I couldn't care less if anybody pays taxes twice on their wealth!
JustRalph
07-30-2006, 01:29 AM
it's called a poison pill. It is used to stop legislation........add an amendment that you know the other side won't ever vote for.........and it kills the legislation. It is called using the rules to your advantage.
boxcar
07-30-2006, 01:40 AM
it's called a poison pill. It is used to stop legislation........add an amendment that you know the other side won't ever vote for.........and it kills the legislation. It is called using the rules to your advantage.
And Sec behaves like the Dems never, ever pull stunts like this... :rolleyes:
Boxcar
Sec, sounds like you would deny the poor folks thier rightful wages jsut to spite rich fols.
tsk tsk......how low of you.
Politics before welfare, you, you, REPUBLICAN, you! :lol:
Secretariat
07-30-2006, 09:14 PM
Sounds like politics to me- Demos could not get a wage increase, and Repubs could not get the estate tax repeal, so they compromised.
So are you saying you are against the Demos and Rebubs compromising to get passed the wage bill? It's about time the Demos stopped ranting and raving and learned how to use politicing to get something passed that will help more than 7,500 of their voters!
I knew the Repubs would stop the wage raise if at all possible, and it affected me and many peole I know. I couldn't care less if anybody pays taxes twice on their wealth!
This isn't politics, it is extortion. The wealthiest have expanded their wealth during this administration, while the minimu mwage hasn't risen in ten years. Poverty figures have risen dramatically undr GW 'a administration. It is morrally reprehensible, and they shoudl be ashamed of themselves as human beings and if they are Christians, as Christians, for tacking on an estate tax break to a minimum wage bill. The estate tax doesn't even take affect until after 600 or 700 thousand dollars. So were talking about estates of almost a million dollars.
It is distasteful and appalling, and indicates a total corruption of the values of the Republican party. This is the same Congress that advoated a 3,000 tax raise for themselves this year. 1/4 of the people in this country make less than $10 an hour. Try living on minimum wage. Just makes me sick to my stomach that this is the party that preaches values. Disgusting.
kenwoodallpromos
07-30-2006, 10:56 PM
This isn't politics, it is extortion. The wealthiest have expanded their wealth during this administration, while the minimu mwage hasn't risen in ten years. Poverty figures have risen dramatically undr GW 'a administration. It is morrally reprehensible, and they shoudl be ashamed of themselves as human beings and if they are Christians, as Christians, for tacking on an estate tax break to a minimum wage bill. The estate tax doesn't even take affect until after 600 or 700 thousand dollars. So were talking about estates of almost a million dollars.
It is distasteful and appalling, and indicates a total corruption of the values of the Republican party. This is the same Congress that advoated a 3,000 tax raise for themselves this year. 1/4 of the people in this country make less than $10 an hour. Try living on minimum wage. Just makes me sick to my stomach that this is the party that preaches values. Disgusting.
__________
Everything you said is absolutely right, Sec- the only thing I disagree with you about is that I say everything you described IS the definition of politics in this country!
Now, do you want to talk about the Demos in Congress supporting every Israeli missle that kills a civilian child? That is politics, too!
It is distasteful and appalling, and indicates a total corruption of the values of the Republican party. This is the same Congress that advoated a 3,000 tax raise for themselves this year. 1/4 of the people in this country make less than $10 an hour. Try living on minimum wage. Just makes me sick to my stomach that this is the party that preaches values. Disgusting.
Oh grow up.
EVERY congress votes themselves raises - including dem controlled ones.
Here is a news flash for you 1/2 the people in this country do not contribute value worth $10 an hour.
Minimum wage was never meant to be a living wage - it is an entry level wage. You want teenageers working after school to make anough to support a family? How come there are so many exception to min wages - you guys had congress for a few yeaers back - never did thing one about it. Raised min wages for a few, and let others out there handing. Grow up and take some pepto bismal.
And agian, it IS politics - if your guys are serious about the wages, then left the other go through as well. That is what politics is all about, and YOUR dems do the same damn thing all the time. Grow up.
Secretariat
07-31-2006, 09:57 PM
Oh grow up.
EVERY congress votes themselves raises - including dem controlled ones.
Here is a news flash for you 1/2 the people in this country do not contribute value worth $10 an hour.
Minimum wage was never meant to be a living wage - it is an entry level wage. You want teenageers working after school to make anough to support a family? How come there are so many exception to min wages - you guys had congress for a few yeaers back - never did thing one about it. Raised min wages for a few, and let others out there handing. Grow up and take some pepto bismal.
And agian, it IS politics - if your guys are serious about the wages, then left the other go through as well. That is what politics is all about, and YOUR dems do the same damn thing all the time. Grow up.
No, this is not politics. This is not the way it needs to work, nor does it always. This is pure slime. Minimum wage may be for soem entry level people, but it is a way of life for many others. Look at the poverty figures under this adminstration. Look at the number of people climbing on the uninsured.
And what does this Repub Congress do? Tack a cut that protects the wealthiest. It is a sad, sad day.
Honestly, I don't know how these people can sleep at night. I guess this is compassionate conservatism in action.
Secretariat
07-31-2006, 10:15 PM
One of the "privileged few," Warren Buffet, the second-richest man in the world, gave Republicans ulcers last month when he said that Congress should retain the estate tax that Republicans seem so eager to get rid of to benefit people like, well, Buffet himself.
"I would hate to see the estate tax gutted," Buffett said at a news conference in which he announced he was transferring a large part of his $44 billion fortune to the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. "It's a very equitable tax. It's in keeping with the idea of equality of opportunity in this country, not giving incredible head starts to certain people who were very selective about the womb from which they emerged."
....
JustRalph
08-01-2006, 02:29 AM
Sure, the death tax sounds good to a tax and spend liberal. Tax the same income 2 or 3 times. sounds great! It doesn't sound so great to the people below. Remember, every person who built up their business or Farm has already paid taxes on their income over the years. There is no reason in hell why the government should be able to tax them again, at 55%, after they are dead. It is confiscatory and immoral.
http://www.policyandtaxationgroup.com/html/stories.html#stories
Boy do I have a horror story for you! My father passed away 10/90. His estate for tax purposes was assessed at 7.7 million dollars when it was re-evaluated. After six months it had not changed much so approximately 3.8 million was owed in death and estate taxes. Most of my father's estate was in real estate and shortly after the six month period after his death, real estate took a dive. And every piece of property we sold to pay taxes sold at about 40% of what it was appraised at time of death.
Well it has been ten years since my father's passing and we have still not seen any money. If and I do mean if we are lucky, then maybe at the end of this year after we pay the last $350,000 to federal and pay the state, my mother, sister and I may have all of $200,000 to split between us. Great."
Michael Stern
This is a true story about Ray. Ray is dead now. He died earlier this year.
He owned a service station on a corner. He had this service station for 27 years. During that 27 years, other service stations were built on the other three corners, the intersection grew busy, the roads forming that intersection were expanded to four lanes. So it was a good place for his business. He had two service bays plus a car wash. He had some old pumps and old equipment. He cleared about $70 thousand a year - not wealthy, but it was a good living. His wife handled the books for the business. His grown son worked there and was eventually going to take over the business.
When Ray died he had a $50 thousand term insurance policy, $60 thousand in municipal bonds (which were income tax free, of course), $174 thousand in his retirement plan, and, of course, the service station.
A few months after he died, his wife also died. Upon the death of his parents, the son discovered that the land on which the service station sat had appreciated over the years and was now worth $1.7 million. The service station and equipment was worth $158,000. He also learned that his father's retirement plan was funded on a before tax basis, so not only would he have to pay estate taxes, but income taxes would be due on the retirement.
The son was now in quite a situation, and he began looking for a way to pay taxes on the almost $2 million estate. The son said "If I can run this as well as my father has, or even better, I can make maybe $70 thousand a year, but I am going to have to have someone to keep the books, so maybe 70 is a little tight." He had no proven track record, so the only thing he could do was to borrow against the land and equipment to pay the estate taxes; however, he could not cover the interest on the loan.
Ray's son will have to sell this business. He has gone from a situation where he looks wealthy, to a situation where he will have to sell the very thing that was his livelihood.
Kern County Farm Equipment Business Sold Due to Death Tax"
In 1950, the Milner family started their farm equipment business and grew it to 10 locations by the year 1979. They employed 250-300 employees ranging from mechanics, sales agents, and administrative people, among others. In 1979, the business did very well and grew in size such that Mr. Milner hired estate planners to do their normal estate planning for the Milner's including the tax projections on the death tax due if Mr. Milner died. Mr. Milner realized his best alternative was to sell out early and pay the 20+% capital gains tax instead of a 55% death tax on the full value of the assets at his death. His decision meant that the family would no longer have a family business and the children would not have an opportunity to work in the family business. In addition, the buyer was a large foreign public company who shortly after the purchase changed operations. The 20-year veterans, the president, treasurer, and sales people had their jobs terminated to avoid redundancy with the new foreign owners. Properties that took 30-years to accumulate were sold and employees were let go at those locations. Mr. Milner also signed a non -compete clause contract forbidding him and his family to re-enter the same business over the next 15 -years. The company that existed under the Milner family's ownership does not exist today, the people employed by the Milner family are no longer employed, and there is no family business to pass on to the next generation.
This is not an unusual story. Numerous family businesses sell out early to pay a capital gains tax rather than concern themselves with the possibility of paying a 55% tax on the full value of the assets due at a death. By paying the capital gains tax, these family businesses not only pay less of a tax - but they also have time for a more orderly and marketable sale of the business than when forced to sell the business when a family member dies and knowing that the tax payment is due within nine months after the date of death. But this means that the family loses the business and often times the livelihood of the family. Repeatedly, jobs are lost in the community as large public companies are not subject to the death tax and can buy up the small and medium sized family businesses.
Is this the future we want for family businesses? If not, then it is imperative that the estate, gift and generation-skipping tax (or the "Death Tax") be eliminated.
The Death Tax Strikes Again"
Jennylynne and her family live in Lone Jack, Missouri and this is an account of a true story. Jennylynne's parents had been in the electrical construction business for over 20 years and Jennylynne learned the business working with her parents. When her parents starting talking about retirement and turning the business over to Jennylynne, the family became aware of the gift tax that they would have to pay or the estate tax that would be paid at their death. The family considered borrowing against the assets to pay the tax but the business could not support the debt at the interest rates that would have to be paid. After 20 years in the business, the company's assets were sold to outsiders and ten employees were terminated. Sadly, the sale of the assets so devastated Jennylynne's father, he died 14 months after the assets were sold. Her father could not understand why he could not pass his business to his daughter who had worked by his side for years.
Jennylynne had to start from scratch to build a new electrical construction business and, fortunately, was able to hire some of the former employees of the family business. In all of this, Jennylynne is now facing a similar situation; she will be unable to pass her business to her children as a result of a tax law , which is permitted to exist that destroys a family's life work.
Her husband's family has also experienced the devastating effects of the death tax. Her husband's family owns a 80-acre farm in Northern Missouri. Jennylynne's sister-in-law had to purchase the family farm to avoid the death tax and has been paying on that debt for 20 years.
This story can be told over and over again. Our legislators need to understand that family businesses are not statistics; they are real people, taking risks, creating jobs and investing their capital. Why after a lifetime of work should they have to pay another tax on assets that have already been taxed at least twice before at a 55% rate - the highest rate in our tax system? Jennylynne and her family are not the exception - they are like so many other families that are not recorded in government statistics of which whom is affected by the death tax. Legislators should endeavor to help families keep their businesses alive and not penalize those that invest in the building of America.
Articles by Patricia M. Soldano, President of Policy and Taxation Group
Sec and his ilk are just plain against the economy - they talk a good game, but if a good economy benefits anyone, they are opposed to it.
The game plan of the dems is to keep everyone dependant. Nothing riles a dem like success.
The party of failure.
Lefty
08-01-2006, 11:39 AM
JR, There are prob thousands of stories out there just like the ones you describe. Time for death tax to go as it is causing grief among ordinary people just like you described. Dems see everything in terms of rich against the poor. Talk about playing politics; the dems are masters at it.
You wanna know what group is hard hit by the tax?
African-Americans who have started to become business owners and then get forced out by a ridculous tax that helps nobody.
Just another dem ploy to keep poeple down.
The last thing the dems want is independent people.
So sec, I ask again, is it not politics to dprive the needy just to win a politcal issue? The dems KNOW this is a poinson bill put out by the repubs - so why do they not have the balls to call them on it and then go public with thier reasons - show some leadership, maybe convince people that they really are on the side of the little guy ( not Andy!:lol:) instead of jsut talking about it and whinning about it.
Time for action, Sec.....serendipity, ba-by!
Secretariat
08-01-2006, 03:03 PM
You wanna know what group is hard hit by the tax?
African-Americans who have started to become business owners and then get forced out by a ridculous tax that helps nobody.
Just another dem ploy to keep poeple down.
The last thing the dems want is independent people.
lol.......Tom, please, please enlighten me how African-American are being so severely hurt by the estate tax.....That has to be the most ludiscrous post you have ever made here.
Bottom line, it is the most reprehensible action the House has done this year. Trying to even defend it as "just politics" is no defense at all. It is bad policy and should offend any decent person's sense of right and wrong.
First generation blacks who own thier own businesses are now being hindered in leaving the business to their children.
The death tax helps nobody - period.
And you are still avoiding my question - or don't you have an answer?
JustRalph
08-01-2006, 03:37 PM
From the Washington Post:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/04/AR2006060400790.html
This tax hurts the growth of minority-owned businesses. As the first generation of African American millionaires begins to die, many of the companies they founded will have to be sold to pay the estate taxes. For example, the tax almost forced the oldest African American-owned newspaper -- the Chicago Daily Defender -- out of business.
According to Heritage Foundation economists, the death tax also costs the American economy 170,000 to 250,000 potential jobs each year. These jobs are never created because the investments that would have financed them are not made, as these resources are diverted to pay for complex trusts and insurance policies to avoid the tax.
:lol: Sec, I first heard about this on the West Wing! The phony democrats were opposed to the death tax because it hurt balck business! So I looked it up, and yup - it's true!
The phony dems are more in touch with reality than the real ones! :lol:
Maybe you guys should run JEB BARTLETT for PRESIDENT
:lol:
Secretariat
08-01-2006, 05:52 PM
From the Washington Post:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/04/AR2006060400790.html
This tax hurts the growth of minority-owned businesses. As the first generation of African American millionaires begins to die, many of the companies they founded will have to be sold to pay the estate taxes. For example, the tax almost forced the oldest African American-owned newspaper -- the Chicago Daily Defender -- out of business.
According to Heritage Foundation economists, the death tax also costs the American economy 170,000 to 250,000 potential jobs each year. These jobs are never created because the investments that would have financed them are not made, as these resources are diverted to pay for complex trusts and insurance policies to avoid the tax.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
You are posting an article by Jeff Sessions. JR, look at the writer....
The writer is a Republican senator from Alabama. Sessions has to be one of the most far right extremists in the Senate, but I expected as much from a guy who reads NewsMax and listens regularly to Rush and watches FOX News.
Now, how about an economist's report.
"According to a study by economist John Irons, 59 African Americans will pay estate taxes this year. 59 out of 38,000,000 blacks in the US.
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/06/08/estate-tax-bob-johnson
http://www.blackprof.com/archives/2006/07/how_many_blacks_have_to_pay_es_1.html
...Again, the most reprehensible act by the House this year. Compassionate Conservatism revealed. 59 guys, 59....no wonder GW is considered a joke by the minorities in this country. 59...that's barely one per state. What a joke. A sad one. btw.. tom, there's your answer. You ought to be ashamed.
Lefty
08-01-2006, 05:59 PM
To eliiminate a tax that is just taxing money that has already been taxed several times isn't dumb; it's just.
highnote
08-01-2006, 10:22 PM
A lot of people have a sense of entitlement. Many children think their parents' money belongs to the children. They're wrong. The parents' money belongs to the parents.
Children are supposed to be raised to become independent and go out and seek their own fortunes -- not rely on handouts from mommy and daddy.
This is how aristocracies are maintained -- by passing wealth from generation to generation. If aristocracies are so great I think our founding father's would have made provisions for them.
Nothing wrong with leaving a little something for junior to get a head start in life. Even Bill Gates is not leaving his billions to his children. I'm sure his kids won't have to struggle to make ends meet.
Monarchies/aristocracies and communism/socialism doesn't work as well as our system. I think we've got it right. Leave it alone. Maybe a cost of living raise to account for inflation.
But basically, I say, children, go out and get a job. Mommy and daddy's money is not yours.
Lefty
08-02-2006, 12:29 AM
If it's the parents' wish that the children have the money that they sweated and toiled for and pd plenty of taxes on why should the govt tax it more so the kids' are basically cheated out of their inheritence?
I laugh at libs' like Buffet(don't know about Gates)who yaps about how we should pay more taxes then he turns his money over to charity so HE has the say where it goes and not the govt. Friggin hypocrite!
Sec, you still are the side palying politics - is keeping this tax more improtant than raising the min wage?
YOU should be ashamed.
The party of the oppressors - keep the man down! Heeeyaaaa!
JustRalph
08-02-2006, 02:38 AM
I can't believe some of the stuff in this thread. triple taxing peoples wages, confiscating property and people act like it is some kind of right of the government. It is no wonder we pay 50 percent to the taxman nowadays. Amazing! You people have been sold such a bill of goods it is almost embarrassing to think that you would approve of this kind of activity. Our founding fathers would roll over in their graves. Geezuz!
highnote
08-02-2006, 04:22 AM
If it's the parents' wish that the children have the money that they sweated and toiled for and pd plenty of taxes on why should the govt tax it more so the kids' are basically cheated out of their inheritence?
I laugh at libs' like Buffet(don't know about Gates)who yaps about how we should pay more taxes then he turns his money over to charity so HE has the say where it goes and not the govt. Friggin hypocrite!
The parents were only able to acquire a lot of money because they live in a great country that is full of opportunity -- equal opportunity for everyone. If aristocracy is created then equal opportunity is less likely to exist.
Buffet earned his money, why shouldn't he have a say in where it goes? Besides, I suppose it is possible that his kids and grandkids could get a job on the board of one of these companies and get paid a huge salary -- that would be the same as a direct inheritance. There are plenty of ways to minimize the inheritance tax with good financial planning.
Secretariat
08-02-2006, 09:54 AM
I'm all for having a vote on the Estate Tax on its own vote, as I'm all for a minimum wage vote on its own vote.
While, I consider it irresponsible to balloon the deficit with repealing the Eatate Tax with n orevenue in a bill to make up for it. I find it reprehensible "to attach" it manipulatively to a minimum wage hike for the poorest, and then attempt to make it appear that the GOP is behind a minimum wage hike. The GOP is attempting to use an issue that the public is overwhelmingly behind in polls, and tie it to one that the public is not behind and benefits the rich. In Mass, Romney vetoed the minimum wage hike recently, and was overridden by the State House and Senate unanimously...."unanimously".
So while you may argue that rich kids are entitled to the money of rich parents whiel ballooning the deficit even further, and I'm all for that debate, it is the insidiousness of attaching it to a minimum wage bill so the ruch can keep their wealth that is what is so reprehensible. It is disgusting and i reiterate those in favor of this action should be ashamed. Not ashamed because they favor the estate tax, but the manner in which their gutlessness has attempted to sneak it through.
btw.. Tom ,thanks for dropping the absurd argument of all the African American businesses that would benefit from the repeal of the Estate Tax.
Lefty
08-02-2006, 11:21 AM
swety, you contradict yourself and then prove you don't understand my point. You say buffet earned his money and why shouldn't he have a say where it goes. Bingo, he should. And so should the parents who want their kids to have their money. My point is Buffet blves in high taxes, but gives the money to charity to avoid paying them himself.
http://www.freedomworks.org/informed/issues_template.php?issue_id=1896
"Unlike most White Americans, many African Americans who accumulated wealth did so facing race discrimination in education, employment, access to capital, and equal access to government resources. In many cases, race discrimination was supported by governmental policies and failure to enforce equal rights laws. It is unfair and unjust for the government through the Estate Tax to seize a portion of the estate of the individuals it failed to provide equal opportunity. "
highnote
08-02-2006, 12:07 PM
swety, you contradict yourself and then prove you don't understand my point. You say buffet earned his money and why shouldn't he have a say where it goes. Bingo, he should. And so should the parents who want their kids to have their money. My point is Buffet blves in high taxes, but gives the money to charity to avoid paying them himself.
Lefty,
But Buffet doesn't make his children his charity. Of course, if he has children, I'm sure they are, and will be, well taken care of. So maybe that does make them a charity. Oops. There I go again contradicting myself. :D
John
http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed030101b.cfm
"More blacks can expect the same experience. Income levels in black households have tripled over the past 24 years, and the number of black-owned businesses more than doubled from 1987 to 1997. According to a recent survey, the death tax is the most feared federal tax by black business owners. Another survey shows that nearly seven out of 10 of minority business owners say they’ve had to take expensive steps to protect their assets."
boxcar
08-02-2006, 12:17 PM
I'm all for having a vote on the Estate Tax on its own vote, as I'm all for a minimum wage vote on its own vote.
While, I consider it irresponsible to balloon the deficit with repealing the Eatate Tax with n orevenue in a bill to make up for it. I find it reprehensible "to attach" it manipulatively to a minimum wage hike for the poorest, and then attempt to make it appear that the GOP is behind a minimum wage hike.
It's high time the GOP learned to play hardball -- just the way the DEMS have done time and time again. The only real negative thing I can say about the GOP is that the party is certainly not a quick study.
Lighten up, Sec, and get over it. We never hear a peep out of you when the DEMS pull their "manipulative" stunts -- but man, when the Repubs do it their's not a cryin' towel large enough in the world now to soak up your crock tears, is there? :rolleyes:
Boxcar
(on my way out the door to buy hip boots, and not because of the impending storm heading my way)
Lefty
08-02-2006, 07:55 PM
sec, the .;part about you crying about the deficit and losing the death tax cause there's nothing to take it's place is unblvble. Did you miss the part about more revenues coming into the IRSe since the tax cuts and the deficit coming dn?
Secretariat
08-02-2006, 08:06 PM
http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed030101b.cfm
"More blacks can expect the same experience. Income levels in black households have tripled over the past 24 years, and the number of black-owned businesses more than doubled from 1987 to 1997. According to a recent survey, the death tax is the most feared federal tax by black business owners. Another survey shows that nearly seven out of 10 of minority business owners say they’ve had to take expensive steps to protect their assets."
For shame Tom, you persist with this after I showed you that only 59 total African Americans quaiflied for the estate tax in the whole country. And the Heritage Group...c'mon Tom...next you'll be posting NewsMax.
But the real issue is the tying of the Estate Tax to the Minimum Wage. I' mall for an up or down vote on either. It is the reprehensible and disgusting lack of morality by a GOP desperate to hold on as it attempts to appease the rich one more time. Totally disgusting.
And Box, you don't play "hardball" with people on minimum wage. My God, you're a religious guy. I can't believe your values can reconcile with this.
Lefty
08-02-2006, 08:34 PM
sec, it's not about appeasing the rich, it's about fairness. And if you think only the super rich is affected you're wrong. Many people with small businesses are impacted by this unjust tax. And it doesn't take much real estate to be impacted either.
The dems been putting crap in bills for yrs, why do you think the pres wants a line item veto?
According to Sec, everyone is rich.
A guy slaves his whole live, working 12-20 hours a day to build a business,and when he dies, his family has to pay double taxes on it ?
That sucks.
Your number of only 59 is just palin not true - you are foing to go against everyone of the Balck leaders listed in my link, including Oprah?
YOU know more than people actually getting shafted?
Secretariat
08-02-2006, 08:53 PM
According to Sec, everyone is rich.
A guy slaves his whole live, working 12-20 hours a day to build a business,and when he dies, his family has to pay double taxes on it ?
That sucks.
Your number of only 59 is just palin not true - you are foing to go against everyone of the Balck leaders listed in my link, including Oprah?
YOU know more than people actually getting shafted?
Tom, go back and read the thread with the economist's numbers.
But again, this is NOT the issue. The issue is tying a bill to benefit wealthy people, and using a bill helping the poorest to do it.
Frankly, the Estate Tax could NOT pass based on its own merits even with a GOP House and Senate.
We already had the line item veto. The Supreme Court declared it unconstitutional. Besides we don't need to give GW any more power. My God, now that is frightening.
If the GOP had some morality and guts they'd put each up for their own vote. That's all they complained about previously with GW talking about an up or down vote on matters. Well, here it is and the GOP reveals itself for what it is. Shameful.
What a whinner you are.
Like the dems never attach ammendments to bills.
And why should I belive anything in your link - what credibility do they have?
Raisng the min wage will cut jobs.
Period.
Secretariat
08-02-2006, 09:34 PM
What a whinner you are.
Like the dems never attach ammendments to bills.
And why should I belive anything in your link - what credibility do they have?
Raisng the min wage will cut jobs.
Period.
Tom, just let them vote on it is all I ask. Not corrupt the process with this reprehensible manipulation. Amazingly, you criticize Democrats when they tack on an amendment - i.e. like getting rid of the bridge to nowhere. But when Repubs do it, you applaud them.
It is reprehensible because it shows how big of hypocrites they are.
See Tom, it doesn't matter whether the min wage will cut jobs (although in those states where state legislatures have passed hikes above the fed min wage, jobs have not been cut as a result).
The issue is the quesitonable morality in attaching benefits for the richest while continually fighting the smallest of increases for the poor.
Reprehensible. Period.
Indulto
08-02-2006, 09:37 PM
... And Box, you don't play "hardball" with people on minimum wage. My God, you're a religious guy. I can't believe your values can reconcile with this.Sec,
Are you mixing religion and politics again? Where has Christianity or Islam demonstrated any piority to improve the plight of the powerless during their lifetime? Seems to me the direction is to deepen the dependency on -- and the devotion to -- the teaching of the disciples to receive their just deserts in the afterlife.
Without an after-death benefit, Judaism appears to promote preserving the legal status quo while one educates oneself sufficiently to deal with it on one's own -- not particularly effective or comforting if one were a Holocaust victim.
Name one successful faith-based solution to a political problem.
Secretariat
08-02-2006, 09:40 PM
Indulto,
lol...perhaps I should have used the word integrity...or is that ancient history
JustRalph
08-03-2006, 06:06 AM
yeah, it is only 59 families. Screw them! So you approve the wholesale confiscation of wealth from these 59 familes...........amazing....!
Why don't you just post a note that you approve of bank robberies.......why not? they can afford it.........and it would only effect a few.........
highnote
08-03-2006, 08:51 AM
yeah, it is only 59 families. Screw them! So you approve the wholesale confiscation of wealth from these 59 familes...........amazing....!
Why don't you just post a note that you approve of bank robberies.......why not? they can afford it.........and it would only effect a few.........
I'd like to know more about each of those 59 families' situations.
Secretariat
08-03-2006, 12:33 PM
Again, both JR, Lefty, and Tom refuse to address the issue which is the tying of this bill to a minimum wage bill.
Once again, YOU refuse to listen.
It is NOT an issue - it SOP - YOu make this one time a crisis.
I repeat - grow up.
JustRalph
08-03-2006, 03:11 PM
Once again, YOU refuse to listen.
It is NOT an issue - it SOP - YOu make this one time a crisis.
I repeat - grow up.
right!
Help Wanted
Low wage workers, non union workers, migrant workers, kids, women and the elderly, the weakest and most vulnerable workers get treated as if they were paper towels or even toilet paper.
Expendable rolls of disposable sponge that can be used to suck up all the shit an employer desires and then wadded up and thrown away or simply flushed.
We need low wage workers to balance out the drain from the overpiad UNION workers.:D
Like union guys never dish out shit - mama mia! :eek:
Secretariat
08-03-2006, 06:19 PM
We need low wage workers to balance out the drain from the overpiad UNION workers.:D
Like union guys never dish out shit - mama mia! :eek:
Tom,
You still refuse to answer my question.
And now you're onto blaming overpaid union workers. Wow, unions have been really growing since the 50's and 60's. Are you nuts? The AFL-CIO is only a shell of what it once was, and union workers (much less overpaid ones) are becoming more and more an endangered species. Are you drunk? Do you want to go back to the situation in this country before unions helped obtain the 40 hour work week, benefits, better working conditions, better wages...unbeleivable.
But back to my orginal question. How can you criticize amendments be added by Dems on bills, and then as reprehensible as this you applaud. I beleive you're the one who has some serious growing up to do. Only a child uses the argument, well they did it, so we should to, but they better not do it again, because if they do, then we shoudl to.. it's juvenile Tom and beneath you.
Stick to your position previously of letting people vote up or down on this issue.
Tom,
You still refuse to answer my question.
And now you're onto blaming overpaid union workers. Wow, unions have been really growing since the 50's and 60's. Are you nuts? The AFL-CIO is only a shell of what it once was, and union workers (much less overpaid ones) are becoming more and more an endangered species. Are you drunk? Do you want to go back to the situation in this country before unions helped obtain the 40 hour work week, benefits, better working conditions, better wages...unbeleivable.
But back to my orginal question. How can you criticize amendments be added by Dems on bills, and then as reprehensible as this you applaud. I beleive you're the one who has some serious growing up to do. Only a child uses the argument, well they did it, so we should to, but they better not do it again, because if they do, then we shoudl to.. it's juvenile Tom and beneath you.
Stick to your position previously of letting people vote up or down on this issue.
Sec, this thread is really much too fast for you, You keep falling further and further behind.:D The union post was in reply to Suff's.
I am saying, adding ammendments is SOP...that means it happens all the time. So why the hell would I think it was more reprehensible on this one?
I agree - the whole practice is wrong, but it is the way things work.
YOu are one whining to beat the band - they do someting they always do and suddenly the world has to stop becasue YOU are offended?
This is why I say grow up. Nothing going on here any different than any other times. Jsut your hot button issue, which I 100% disagree with. I say good that the repubs are learning to play the same sorry game the dems keep using over and over again. Ram crap down their throats.
Secretariat
08-03-2006, 06:57 PM
Sec, this thread is really much too fast for you, You keep falling further and further behind.:D The union post was in reply to Suff's.
I am saying, adding ammendments is SOP...that means it happens all the time. So why the hell would I think it was more reprehensible on this one?
I agree - the whole practice is wrong, but it is the way things work.
YOu are one whining to beat the band - they do someting they always do and suddenly the world has to stop becasue YOU are offended?
This is why I say grow up. Nothing going on here any different than any other times. Jsut your hot button issue, which I 100% disagree with. I say good that the repubs are learning to play the same sorry game the dems keep using over and over again. Ram crap down their throats.
Tom what you are saying is hypocrisy. You cannot be outraged when one party adds amendments, but when another party does it it's business as usual, and spout out hypocritcal statements like grow up. Should you have "grown up" when Dem's added amendments you thought were wrong? That's absurd.
The issue is the inclusion of a bill which they are unable to pass to help the wealthiest is being tied to a bill which helps the poorest who haven't even kept up with inflation in a decade for poltical gain. I repeat it is a shameful act and lacks integrity. Still don't see how anyone can support that behavior.
Lefty
08-03-2006, 07:07 PM
sec, tom's right. The Dems did it alla time. Remember a few yrs ago when the midwest had floods and there was an emergency bill to get em some help. Well Maxine Waters put a deal in the bill where so much money had to be allocated to the black community in her district. Now THAT's reprehensible.
If the dems want the min wage then they have to give the repubs the end of the death tax. It's called politics and about time repubs learning to play the game the dems been playing for yrs and yra and...
Lefty, he is so crazed over this he can't think staright!
Trying to carry on this discussion is like being in a three legged race with a one legged man with gout! :lol:
I give up trying to explain it to him.
The bottom line is, it is done and no amount of crying will undo it. :lol::lol::lol:
Secretariat
08-03-2006, 09:09 PM
The bottom line is, it is done and no amount of crying will undo it. :lol::lol::lol:
It is done, but hopefully the Senate will undo it. People see through this disgusting action of the House, and will hold those accountable.
Secretariat
08-04-2006, 08:41 PM
Fortunately, the Senate rejected this travesty of a bill. A shameful day in American politics.
The irony is Frist's quote who voted against the bill himself. And who says these issues must be addressed as a package. The worst in polltical manipulation and it will come back to haunt the GOP because people see what they're doing.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/08/03/national/w191146D14.DTL
Senate Rejects Estate, Minimum Wage Bill
By MARY DALRYMPLE, AP Tax Writer
Friday, August 4, 2006
(08-04) 06:19 PDT WASHINGTON, (AP) --
A bill combining an estate tax cut with a boost in the federal minimum wage, an election-year combination engineered by Republicans, may see another vote this fall.
Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., told senators who voted against the bill to "rethink long and hard" during the four-week recess that began early Friday. Congress reconvenes in September.
Frist also reiterated that the GOP will not split the minimum wage apart from the estate tax, and that future votes on the pay increase will be linked to cutting taxes on multimillion-dollar estates.
"These issues must be addressed as a package, all or nothing," he said.
The Senate late Thursday rejected, 56-42, a bill fusing the cut in estate taxes with a $2.10 increase over three years in the $5.15 minimum wage. The bill also would have revived a host of expired tax cuts, including a business research and development credit and deductions for state sales taxes, college tuition and teachers' classroom supplies.
Republicans needed 60 votes to advance the measure, which passed the House last Saturday."
JustRalph
08-04-2006, 09:41 PM
:lol: :lol: Stop your whining!!! If you want to run with the big dogs.......your peeps better learn to piss in the high grass...........
I am kind of actually looking forward to a Dem controlled Congress.....if you guys can pull it off. Because you are gonna look so bad when things get worse and all you want to do is raise taxes......... it could be the death knell for you for another 12 years.............
Secretariat
08-04-2006, 10:29 PM
I am kind of actually looking forward to a Dem controlled Congress.....
It's nice to see common ground on this one point.
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