Question on ROI.....

[ernie simons]

$3.55 ROI on a $2 win wager, does that $3.55 include my $2 bet?

[Lefty]

No. If I bet 100 races $2 per race and avg. $10 then gross is $250
Deduct my $200 and i've made $50 net or 25% Roi figured to a $1 or 12.5% figured to $2 so ROI is a net figure. Anyway, that's the way I see it.

[rrbauer]

ernie

Either the ROI is $3.55 if the bet(s) are deducted; or, $1.55 if the bet(s) are not deducted. Either way, it ain't too shabby! It's your call.

Poor man's ROI calculation:
When you start the day put all your money in your left pants pocket and note how much you started with. As the day goes by and you cash some bets, put the winnings in your right pants pocket.

At the end of the day, deduct what's left in the left pocket from the starting total. The diff is your "I".

Then count what's in your right pocket. That's your "R". (And do this before you start buying rounds at the pub!)

If "R" is greater than "I" then look in the mirror and say, "Well done lad."

If "I" is greater than "R" then start working on your "I was robbed" stories.

Anything else isn't worth talking about! Get 'em next time.

[ranchwest]

Your ROI is 1.775. ROI is properly figured against $1.00.

[ernie simons]

Ok, Thanks guys. :)

[karlskorner]

Richard;

It can't be explained any simpler than that. Well done Lad.

Karl

[rrbauer]

ranchwest wrote:
Your ROI is 1.775. ROI is properly figured against $1.00.

Comment: Not so sure about the "properly".

ROI means "return on investment" and how it is presented is more tradition than anything.

In financial circles it is presented as a percentage. Such as 177%.

When it first surfaced in the racing world it was done in relation to $2 because that was the minimum bet and it was usually calculated to show the "success" of a betting method in flat-bet profit terms. Such as 3.55.

In Quirin's works he used $Net as a measure of return and it was based on $2 as break even. $Net amounts greater than $2 reflected a profitable approach; less than $2 reflected a losing approach.

In the DRF they use the $2 break-even amount to measure trainer-angle ROI.

Bauer uses the "I" pocket and the "R" pocket; and, when he leaves the track with the insides of both pockets pulled out it's a bad sign where ROI is concerned!

:)

[ernie simons]

Which is exactly where I pulled those ROI figs from. So I don't really know if the $2 win wager is included in the $3.55 ROI or not.

This is how it reads;

ROI
$2 WIN AV. Win
$3.55 Payoff
$10.07

[ernie simons]

Ok, that didn't post the way I wrote it.

ROI
$2 WIN
$3.55


Av. Win
Payoff
$10.07

[Rick]

Here's my two cents worth. I don't care what ROI stands for, all I want to see is % profit or loss. That's something I can interpret directly rather than having to subtract 1 or subtract 2 and divide by 2 (the biggest pain in the a**). I don't really enjoy doing the extra calculations even if they're easy.

[rrbauer]

ernie
The DRF stats include the $2 bet in the return. Hence, any return that shows less than $2 is a loss.

[ernie simons]

Thanks Richard.

[Suff]

I'm more concerned with WINNING % ... in the DRF they give Starts in the relevant catergory.. Winners... % of winners and ROI... If a trainer had to date 150 starters coming off a 30-45 day layoff... and his lines look like this

150 .20 ROI...$ 1.35... I'm inclined to think he has started a lot of chalk... I'll take the 20% win Percenatge as a more FAVORABLE stat.. than get concerned with his ROI in that catergory... Because it Could read 150 starters.....05 and $4.20 ROI and that would indicate of his 150 starters 5% won and he HAD SOME BOMBS to Hike his ROI... I'll take the more consistent performer than the occassional BOMB... Jerkins is a NY trainer with Performance lines like this.. He sneaks in the Occasional 40 dollar winner and his ROI goes up...

[rrbauer]

I think that Sufferin makes a good point. One bomb can keep your ROI (as a player, trainer or whatever) inflated for some time.

It's hard to get the stats (Today's Racing Digest has them periodically for Calif Trainers) but if you can get a breakdown of how a trainer does with various odds' categories (such as favs, between 4-1 and 9-1, etc.) then you get an idea of how the trainer is being followed by the money.

[takeout]

Forgetting about the ROI part for a moment, why don't they just put the number of wins in there too? Does a stat like 150 .15 mean 22 winners or 23?

150 .14 = 21.0 winners
150 .15 = 22.5 winners
150 .16 = 24.0 winners