Handicapping Magic Hype

[andicap]

Just got the new mailing for Handicapping Magic and its NEWEST software -- as well as invite for its Oct. conference in Vegas.

Whoever got this: Isn't it just a mite over the top? I mean, Bob, even you have to admit this newsletter reminds you of some of the worst excess of Cynthia Publishing that promised to turn you into an instant winner just by plunking down $1,000 for All-in-One.
It definitely left a bad taste in my mouth.

:mad:

[Aussieplayer]

Hi andicap,

I think you've (as in, anyone, not just you) just has to try and look past the hype.

I mean, when you have a product to sell......you have to SELL it!

They've gotta eat!

I'm not defending such hype, and I don't like the thought that such hype would get people who can't afford it to get it anyway.

I also think you can successfully market without it - some do....but not enough have the expertise.

But, as serious students of the game, who know what the reality is, I think we just have to ignore the hype.

Cheers
AP

[Bob Harris]

Andicap,

I try not to promote or defend ITS...I win with their products and am willing to pass along tips to other users who are struggling. I will be assisting Michael and Eric with the seminar but I'm not on the ITS payroll. I pay 1.50 for my data files just like everyone else.

I'm sorry the mailer irritated you...I'm quite sure Jerry or Doug will take your name off their mailing list if you don't care to receive anything else from them.

I pulled the mailer out of my desk drawer and read it over again. Unless I missed something, it looks like the emphasis is going to be on betting, not handicapping. This is the area where good players still fail...miserably in some cases. The endless search for better handicapping programs and data is silly. After seeing the profits which good players can make with something as basic as TPR numbers, I will never again believe that the key to profits is in better handicapping. It's all in the betting!

Now then, if the new "ValueTech" software they will be unveiling (I haven't seen it yet) helps people make better wagers and stay out of poor betting situations, then I think the hype of the flier, while admittedly over the top in some places, is acceptable to me. Betting skills will change the bottom line for many of the players who attend.

If the seminar gets bogged down in the construction of ratings and paceline selection, then I will agree with you 100%...people will have paid good money to have their game elevated and ITS will have failed to deliver.

Hope you had a relaxing Holiday!

Bob

[azmike]

Bob:

I appreciate your posts. Clearly you are very close to the people involved with Handicapping Magic and I think that is good for all of us because you can share your particular "insight".

I have used several programs in the past years and have tried demos on some of the newer ones.

I hope I am not a "lurker" in the negative sense of the term but I like to do my homework.

I am a little unclear about the various "magic" programs? Could you tell me which is which. Which one is the newest, costliest etc. Also, do I gather from your post that a "newer" program is being introduced.

Kitts, in a different post, mentioned he was pleased with HM (I think that was the one) after a recent major upgrade.

Thanks.

[andicap]

Bob,
I actually like receiving their mailings -- I like getting everything (well, except for the touting crap from the Sports Eye folks).

And I'm sure the seminar will be worthwhile -- I don't doubt Pizzolla and Eric are big winners and smart guys.
And Aussieplayer has a point that to sell you have to exaggerate, but I just think someone reading that flier might believe they can buy the software, go to the seminar and just get rich. It's just a bit over the top.

[Bob Harris]

Hi Mike,

I think people should do their homework before selecting a handicapping program...there are several good ones on the market. I personally would never use one with several different screens of data or information. Give me an early rating and a late rating and I'll make money. Additional data just clutters the picture for me.

Other players I've met do quite well with lots of data...to them the confirmation they get from other screens in the program is essential. I'll only give people a hard time when they start switching programs everytime they have a 10 race losing streak. I know a guy who has 8 different handicapping programs on his laptop and he'll use several in one day!

As far as Handicapping Magic goes, the original software (Handicapping Magician) pretty much did the PBS and PPF calculations and that's it. The user needed to open the form cycle as they saw fit and decide which rating to favor depending on how they felt the race would unfold. The newest program (Master Magician) automates the pace pressure and form cycle process...I am able to do cards very quickly and am generally very happy with the software.

The software which will be released at the seminar appears to address the two biggest problems Master Magician users still have...which contender/overlay to bet and wagering on the incorrect running style for today's pace scenario. I haven't seen either yet...not sure if they will be additions to the Master Magician or if they will run separately. I'll post my opinions of both once I've had an opportunity to mess with them a bit...probably in November.

Take care,

Bob

[Bob Harris]

Originally posted by andicap
Bob,
I actually like receiving their mailings -- I like getting everything (well, except for the touting crap from the Sports Eye folks).

And I'm sure the seminar will be worthwhile -- I don't doubt Pizzolla and Eric are big winners and smart guys.
And Aussieplayer has a point that to sell you have to exaggerate, but I just think someone reading that flier might believe they can buy the software, go to the seminar and just get rich. It's just a bit over the top.

Andicap,

I will agree with you on that point. Some will perceive from the flyer that this game is easy...we all know that it's anything but.

Bob

[Richard]

How does one get the mailings for Handicapping Magic?

[Bob Harris]

Originally posted by Richard
How does one get the mailings for Handicapping Magic?

Richard,

Reach them at info@itsdata.com

The flier being discussed in this thread is also on their webpage
www.itsdata.com

Bob

[azmike]

I checked out the seminar info at the web link you provided and it does indicate that a "Value Tech" software module is being unveiled at the seminar. Apparently this is intended as an "add-on" to the MM program.

I know they have to sell...but the references to guaranteed information on how to make "obscene profits" etc was pretty "over the top". The descriptions of Mike P and Eric reminded me of the old Dick Mitchell mailings where he contrasted himself with Ron Ambrose--oops, I'm dating myself.

I would actually enjoy hearing them speak and demonstrates their wares, but not because of the "sales pitch". Actually, despite it :)

[Bob Harris]

Mike,

I'll pass on your opinion (and Andicap's) when I talk to Michael next. I understand the need to get an audience excited about a product but if some are left with a bad taste in their mouths I'm sure he'll want to hear about it.

Best,

Bob

[Tom]

Hey bob,
A friend of mine, an OTB branch manager bought the program and is going to the seminar in October. I told him to look you up and say Hi! (I assumed you would be there).
He and I go way back with Mickey - he even has the big program - I forget the name - and we were at a Philly semnar a few years ago. I am tryng to get free so I can go, but it looks iffy right now.
I just got to thinking - were you ever at a Sartin seminar in Albany, or Mikey's in Philly? I knew a guy named Bob from then and I wondered if it was you.

Tom

[Bob Harris]

Tom,

I did attend a Sartin seminar in Albany so our faces may look familiar to each other. Please say hello if you have the opportunity to get down in October!

Bob

[Triple Trio]

Bob,

Has Eric ever written or plans to write a book?

TT

[aaron]

Which of the computer systems on the market are one screen computer systems?Of those that are one screen systems which one would the players on this list recommend?

[andicap]

Do you know a Pizzolla user named Sam Meiola? (sp?)
He's from Jersey. I used to go to the Meadowlands with him -- he loved Pizzolla and bought all this products.

[GR1@HTR]

I got the flyer as well. Really nothing different than how they marketed anything else...I do find the hype some what offensive myself but I guess that is what works for them.

Personally I would be more interested in the features, screen shots, and so on v.s. hype...

[Bob Harris]

Originally posted by Triple Trio
Bob,

Has Eric ever written or plans to write a book?

TT

I don't know of any plans, TT...I'll ask when I see him. If he did write one I know some of the stuff would shock people (he's known around ITS as "The Grim Reaper"). The realities of racing aren't talked about too much.

Bob

[andicap]

Originally posted by andicap
Do you know a Pizzolla user named Sam Meiola? (sp?)
He's from Jersey. I used to go to the Meadowlands wit
h him -- he loved Pizzolla and bought all this products.

Sorry, this is for Bob Harris, not Richard Bauer. Two great cappers -- sorry to confuse you!


:rolleyes:

[Bob Harris]

I'm so bummed! Just got nipped at 24-1 in the 2nd at PHA:mad:

I'm sorry, I don't know Sam by his name...maybe his face will ring a bell??

Bob

[Myhorse1_X]

Bob Harris:

Since you are knowledgeable about the goings on at ITS, will ITS stop supporting the Handicapping Magic program in a few years like it did THE MASTER HANDICAPPER.
I purchased the Master Handicapper for $1,250, and three years later they stopped improving the program when windows 98 came into being.
The program would "Lock up" when changing screens". I asked a dozen times if they would update the program, and the anwer I got was "They had no plans to update TMH". That is a hell of an answer after I spent $1,250 for the program.

If they want to get off my Manure list, why don't they send me a free Magic Program in place of my TMH?????. They still support the files that the program uses and they work, but not on windows 98, 98plus, or ME or XP. and I don't know how many people still operate DOS computers. I started having problems when I upgraded my computer to 500mz, so it could have been a combination of speed and operating system that caused its failure.
I still have a bad taste in my mouth to pay over one thousand dollars for a program and then not have an upgrade to new speeds and operating systems.

I know it was a DOS based program, but many DOS programs have been updated to Windows to keep customer satisfaction.
MY QUESTION----How long will it be before they stop supporting this expensive program?????
Think about this before you purchase the program.

MyHorse1

[ranchwest]

That's interesting. I've seen programs that patch some DOS programs, patches the executable to adapt to the faster speed processors. Makes me wonder if that is possible with TMH.

Other than some timing issues, there is no reason why a DOS program shouldn't run on new machines. I do it all the time.

[wes]

Myhorse1:

look at http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,428535,00.asp

If you are using Xp you may find this article to be some help for you and the good ole DOS. The title of the article is RUNNING DOS PROGRAMS.

look under PC Magazine if you can't get the web site listed.

goodluck

wes

[GR1@HTR]

Doesn't Pizzola partially own ITS? None the less, I don't think you will have to worry about free upgrades or updates. He will to his best interest just produce another "better performing" Handicapping Magic SW that will cost more. Then have $500 video tapes and seminars to support the cause.

[GameTheory]

Pretty much any DOS program should be able to run on Win98. Sometimes you may have to tweak a few things (like setting the DOS mode to "prevent from detecting Windows" or using a program to throttle the speed, although that is usually used for games) but I'm sure there is a way to make it work, even if they won't help you with it...

[Bob Harris]

MyHorse1,

I'll pass along your displeasure to Michael when I speak with him next. I spoke with him for about 30 minutes on Monday...unless something unusual happens, I probably won't speak with him again until the LV seminar on the 18th.

I don't know what the deal is with TMH locking up...my original Windows based laptop (Win 95) never locked up while running the program. My desktop (Win ME), never locks up either. My current laptop (also Win ME) will lock up every freaking time I look at the Accu-Pressure screen. I can't tell you how many bets I've missed while waiting for my machine to reboot! I don't know what causes it and why some people/machines have problems and some don't.

There is some talk about blending TMH and the Master Magician together in the future (Spring of 2003) but it will really depend on how much demand there is for it. Eric wrote the Master Magician because users of the Handicapping Magician kept requesting an automated version. There are a number of users of MM who have been asking for a better track-to-track adjustment and the Accu-Par portion of TMH would take care of that. Being that I know less than zero about programming, I've got no idea how difficult it is to rewrite DOS code to Windows.

Best,

Bob

[Bruddah]

I feel very fortunate to have made such a good decision in buying Nathan's (Handle's) program (Equisim) over 3 years ago. It was/ is an excellent handicapping software for a very reasonable and affordable price. Nathan has given his customers first rate service, with many free upgrades. He has "been about" developing the ultimate handicapping software and not gouging the customer.

There are several top programmers and handicappers on this forum. I enjoy them sharing thier deep thinking on handicapping and betting. IMHO, Nathan is at the top of the list. Do yourself a favor and save money by going to www.thorotech.com because the more expensive software doesn't find the winners any better than Equisim. I doubt they do it as well.

[shane]

I'm currently running The Master Handicapper on Win XP. When I called Jerry and asked how to set it up he mailed me a fix disc. When it didn't work he sent out another that did work. Each time was at their expense.
I am also disappointed in the lack of attention given to this program. Promises were made and not kept. The user's forum was discontinued when they switched to the internet, then the e
entire BB was abandoned.
I ordered the Master Magician and only had it a short time. It was my opinion that it was unreliable at minor league tracks that run a lot of 5f races. Also mile and forty yards skewed the ratings. As long as the program uses unadjusted Equibase speed ratings it
cannot be accurate. Again, that is MY opinion.

[Myhorse1_X]

Wes:

I want to thank you for your lead to the PC Magazine article on how to make DOS programs run on windows xp.

I printed out the article, followed the instructions, and guess what!!!

It works!!!!!. Too bad I have already given up on the Master handicapper program, but I still have the old version 1.2 (the one that uses the BRIS past performances) and got it to working.
I never gave the TMH program a bad name, but I do the lack of support that I received after I had attended three of their seminars in Las Vegas and paid $1,250 for the program. I still like Michael, and consider him a friend, but I guess Eric never could get off his butt to make any changes.

Thanks again.

MyHorse1

[wes]

Myhorse:

Glad you got it to work. I printed it out also and used it on a couple programs that works fine.

wes

[Myhorse1_X]

Shane:

Do you know what was on that disk that Jerry Wayne sent to you?.

I would be interested to know.

Thanks.

MyHorse1

[shane]

MyHorse,

Sorry I haven't been able to find the disc's Jerry sent me. I remember him saying they had the same problem with Win ME. I could install TMH on XP but every time I tried to boot it up it flashed back to desktop. The program couldn't read the dongle on the printer port.
Shane

[GameTheory]

I don't know about XP, but with ME or 98 or 95, you can always create a boot disk and run in a pure DOS mode. If the printer is the problem it may actually be the printer -- many newer printers just are not designed for use with DOS, but most will work in a basic mode anyway. Under Windows, some printers have DOS settings in their control panel, but that won't matter if you are using a boot disk...

[MarylandPaul@HSH]

Not sure if this is helpful, but I thought I'd mention it just in case...

In XP, if you go to the Device Manager (right-click "My Computer", select "Manage", click "Device Manager") and look at the properties for the Printer Port, on the tab "Port Settings", there are three choices for Resource Method

-Try not to use an interrupt
-Never use an interrupt (default)
-Use any interrupt assigned to the port

Anything DOS based will use an Interrupt (IRQ 7 for LPT1)...I'd try the third choice.

MP

[Myhorse1_X]

In order to use a boot disk to recognize drive c:, you have to have the boot disk with Windows 98 on it.

I tried other systems to boot my computer, but it took a windows 98 system disk to get over to drive c: in order to use the DOS program.
After I got the A>, I changed directories to c:, then to the program and executed it.

MyHorse1

[GameTheory]

Yes,

The boot disk will need to match the file system of the hard drive. Win 98 & ME use "FAT32", which is different than WinNT, for example. Don't know what XP uses. Basically, if you create the boot disk with the OS on the system, it should work fine. (So far as booting, anyway.) You also have to set the CMOS so that the floppy drive is the first in the line of boot devices...

[Myhorse1_X]

To those who decide to go to Las Vegas to the ITS Seminar:

You are about to meet the King of Horse Players!. Michael Pizzolla is about the most interesting person you will ever meet.
Michael will amaze you with his insight on the handicapping experience, and give you words of wisdom that will supercede any others.

He is the only person I know of that can continue talking for 4 or 5 hours and hold his audience spellbound. He has a unique way of handicapping that if you can duplicate, will spell success.

Regardless of whether you use his software, his method of approaching the bet can be used with any software, or no software at all. He will teach you about VALUE. The most important lesson in betting. It is worth the money just to go and hear and meet Michael Pizzolla.

Let me hear from you when you get back, I believe you will be a different horseplayer.

MyHorse1